The Competition: PAC-12 Hoops 2016-17

[DrumNFeather]

I think he has a lot more to prove at Utah before he becomes a hot commodity.


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Oh, I don't know. Jim Boylen got attention from Arizona whilst at Utah before the bottom fell out. It only takes one! I actually thought he might get a look from Wisconsin last year.

[LA Ute]

Oh, I don't know. Jim Boylen got attention from Arizona whilst at Utah before the bottom fell out. It only takes one! I actually thought he might get a look from Wisconsin last year.

I wish Arizona would've taken Boylen. He might've set their program back 5 years or so.

[sancho]

Brooks does it again. Gotta be POY right?

[Diehard Ute]

Brooks does it again. Gotta be POY right?

He's also 100% on horrible flops.


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[DrumNFeather]

The more I look at this, the more I wonder how the league gets more than four teams in the dance, barring someone coming out of nowhere to win the conference tourney (come on Larry, I know you can do it!).

Arizona, Oregon, UCLA are all locks and likely to be in the top 16 seeds.

USC has a pretty shaky resume at this point, but should go 3-1 down the stretch, though none of those wins will help them (unless they somehow beat Arizona).

Cal's resume is not great, and with a loss to fellow bubble team Seaton Hall, I think the Bears are gonna have to win out, which means road wins in SLC and Boulder, or do some serious damage in the Pac 12 Tourney.

[sancho]

He's also 100% on horrible flops.


Brooks has many elite skills. The Dillon Brooks elite skill power ranking:

1. Flopping
2. Preening
3. Clutch jumpers
4. Leadership
5. Chest tattoo selection

[Diehard Ute]

Brooks has many elite skills. The Dillon Brooks elite skill power ranking:

1. Flopping
2. Preening
3. Clutch jumpers
4. Leadership
5. Chest tattoo selection

So you're saying he's like a drunk peakcock?


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[sancho]

So you're saying he's like a drunk peakcock?


Exactly.

ah7siqZbgfSjC

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

834691050409074690

[justaute]

Wow...ASU came back to beat U$C. U$C was up 6 (82-76) with just 46 seconds left.

[DrumNFeather]

Wow...ASU came back to beat U$C. U$C was up 6 (82-76) with just 46 seconds left.

That's a collapse we as Ute fans can really appreciate.

[sancho]

Rumors are that Missouri will go after Cuonzo Martin as a head coach. I wouldn't mind seeing a good recruiter leave the Pac.

[DrumNFeather]

In "water is wet" news, Fulks has declared for the NBA draft.

[Old Standing ute]

In "water is wet" news, Fulks has declared for the NBA draft.

I wonder if Fulks pulled a "McCaffrey" & stopped playing when he knew his team sucked & he would be 1st or 2nd pick in the draft.?

[concerned]

I wonder if Fulks pulled a "McCaffrey" & stopped playing when he knew his team sucked & he would be 1st or 2nd pick in the draft.?

When he was "injured" during the last several weeks of the season, it was widely reported that he probably would not play again, to make sure he did not get injured before the draft. Romar even admitted as much.

[NorthwestUteFan]

You mean Markelle Fultz. You made me panic for a second.

I thought you meant Kyle Fulks. I still hope he will have a breakout season as a SR next year. He had the wheels to be a good WR.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

You mean Markelle Fultz. You made me panic for a second.

I thought you meant Kyle Fulks. I still hope he will have a breakout season as a SR next year. He had the wheels to be a good WR.

In connection to my post in the Spring Football thread, Tom Hackett takes a couple of shots at Kyle AND his dad in the recent 4th and Long podcast.


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[DrumNFeather]

You mean Markelle Fultz. You made me panic for a second.

I thought you meant Kyle Fulks. I still hope he will have a breakout season as a SR next year. He had the wheels to be a good WR.

You got there eventually.

[Mormon Red Death]

Well that was a bad gambling beat. Oregon -8.5 winning by 7 2.5 seconds left. Dillon Brookings fouled. Makes the first and the whole stadium erupted. Then he misses the second to a collective groan

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[Utah]

In connection to my post in the Spring Football thread, Tom Hackett takes a couple of shots at Kyle AND his dad in the recent 4th and Long podcast.


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What did Hackett say?

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

What did Hackett say?

I had to look it back up, but they start at the 31 minute mark. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/4th-and-long/id1175558362?mt=2&i=1000382321775

The first comment is, "Apparently his dad didn't say enough about him going into last season, so he's only on the two deep." And then making fun of Keith for saying that Kyle would be the greatest thing to ever come out of Utah. Tom even repeats your "bricks for hands" diagnosis.


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[LA Ute]

Dillon Brooks came close to being tossed from the championship game. I like the guy's talent and fire but he acted like a punk on that play.


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[justaute]

Dillon Brooks came close to being tossed from the championship game. I like the guy's talent and fire but he acted like a punk on that play.


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Agreed.

FWIW...sure is nice to play with so much talent, Arizona.

[LA Ute]

Hard to know for whom to cheer here. I don't like either Arizona or Oregon. The edge goes to Oregon because I like their coach, despite Brooks' punkishness.


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[justaute]

I want to know whey Oregon's #3 (Pritchard?) does not get called for carry when he dribbles. The way he turns hand/wrist is way too exaggerated.

[chrisrenrut]

Sean Miller sure seems like a pretty good guy. Seems always very respectful to his opponents, win, lose, or blow-out.

I was back looking for another post, and saw this one. It reminded me of Sean's pettiness calling the time out with 1 second left. It seemed out of character for him, and my respect for him took a hit. What a childish way to react to a perceived slight. Be the bigger man, Sean.

[Utah]

I had to look it back up, but they start at the 31 minute mark. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/4th-and-long/id1175558362?mt=2&i=1000382321775

The first comment is, "Apparently his dad didn't say enough about him going into last season, so he's only on the two deep." And then making fun of Keith for saying that Kyle would be the greatest thing to ever come out of Utah. Tom even repeats your "bricks for hands" diagnosis.


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I've spoken to his dad a few times. He's just a dad who cares, that's all. IF Fulks could ever learn to catch the ball, he'd be special. IF...

Anyways, in the first spring ball, we ran a ton of fly sweeps, so maybe that's how we take advantage of Fulks.

[Rocker Ute]

I've spoken to his dad a few times. He's just a dad who cares, that's all. IF Fulks could ever learn to catch the ball, he'd be special. IF...

Anyways, in the first spring ball, we ran a ton of fly sweeps, so maybe that's how we take advantage of Fulks.

Lol. That's probably true. Having gone to dinner with some parents and their 20yo son who said he was thinking he might want to play tennis professionally (despite not even making his high school team) and his parents saying, "I really think you can do it!" What Fulks dad said doesn't even register on the scale of parental denial.


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

843487388844220416

Huskies hire Syracuse assistant Mike Hopkins.


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[justaute]

There is a rumor about Indiana offering $31 million, 7-year contract to Alford. Though, the rumor has already been refuted.

[SoCalPat]

843487388844220416

Huskies hire Syracuse assistant Mike Hopkins.


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SoCal kid. Coaching in the PAC 12 is almost a homecoming for him.

[sancho]

Cal hires Wyking Jones (a Martin assistant). Back-to-back fake name coaches.

[LA Ute]

Wow. I wonder how Alford dealt with Daddy Ball?

Coaching LaVar Ball's sons: Inside high school basketball's most chaotic 30-3 season

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/03/lavar-ball-stephan-gilling-chino-hills-coach-lonzo-lamelo-liangelo-ucla-high-school

[hostile]

Wow. I wonder how Alford dealt with Daddy Ball?

Coaching LaVar Ball's sons: Inside high school basketball's most chaotic 30-3 season

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/03/lavar-ball-stephan-gilling-chino-hills-coach-lonzo-lamelo-liangelo-ucla-high-school
I have a nephew that plays at Chino Hills. I'll have to ask his dad for some inside scoop.

[sancho]

Do we have a list of enemies declaring early yet? AJ usually posts these things.

UCLA: Ball and Leaf are gone. Yeah!

Zona: Markennen and Simmons are gone. Alkins and Commanche are testing the waters without an agent. Trier is still deciding.

Oregon: Brooks and Dorsey are gone. Hurray! I think Bell is still making up his mind? Not sure what Boucher is doing now other than PT.

USC: Boatwright, Aaron, and Stewart are all testing the draft sans agent.

I think I read that Cal and ASU both lost big commits recently. And UW lost some transfers when Romar was fired.

Who am I missing?

[DrumNFeather]

Do we have a list of enemies declaring early yet? AJ usually posts these things.

UCLA: Ball and Leaf are gone. Yeah!

Zona: Markennen and Simmons are gone. Alkins and Commanche are testing the waters without an agent. Trier is still deciding.

Oregon: Brooks and Dorsey are gone. Hurray! I think Bell is still making up his mind? Not sure what Boucher is doing now other than PT.

USC: Boatwright, Aaron, and Stewart are all testing the draft sans agent.

I think I read that Cal and ASU both lost big commits recently. And UW lost some transfers when Romar was fired.

Who am I missing?

Rabb is gone, and Boucher was a senior wasn't he?

[sancho]

Rabb is gone

I think Rabb hurt his stock by staying another year. Weren't people talking about him for the lottery last season?

[sancho]

It looks like #3 in the conference is up for grabs. Too bad we are looking like a mess.

[Solon]

Do we have a list of enemies declaring early yet? AJ usually posts these things.

UCLA: Ball and Leaf are gone. Yeah!

Zona: Markennen and Simmons are gone. Alkins and Commanche are testing the waters without an agent. Trier is still deciding.

Oregon: Brooks and Dorsey are gone. Hurray! I think Bell is still making up his mind? Not sure what Boucher is doing now other than PT.

USC: Boatwright, Aaron, and Stewart are all testing the draft sans agent.

I think I read that Cal and ASU both lost big commits recently. And UW lost some transfers when Romar was fired.

Who am I missing?
Washington also lost that 5-star Porter kid when Romar got fired.
Porter's dad was a UW assistant coach who has since landed at Missouri (I think), so there is speculation that the kid will come too.

[DrumNFeather]

Looks like Casey Benson is transferring from Oregon. Man, tons of turnover in this league.

[Mormon Red Death]

Looks like Casey Benson is transferring from Oregon. Man, tons of turnover in this league.

What???? I thought we were the only ones.

[sancho]

What???? I thought we were the only ones.

We're the only ones who lost Devon Daniels, which hurts. Are there other transfers of his caliber? Maybe one of the UW guys.

[Diehard Ute]

We're the only ones who lost Devon Daniels, which hurts. Are there other transfers of his caliber? Maybe one of the UW guys.

Talent wise yes. But after reading Goon's article yesterday it's fairly clear Devon was a problem off the court, and it was a string of issues.


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[sancho]

Talent wise yes. But after reading Goon's article yesterday it's fairly clear Devon was a problem off the court, and it was a string of issues.


Yeah, I get it. He had to go. It doesn't make it any easier, though.

[Two Utes]

Looks like Casey Benson is transferring from Oregon. Man, tons of turnover in this league.

He's a Phoenix kid. I met with his brother who is an assistant at Grand Canyon when my son decided to transfer. I suspected this would happen. Utah should go after him

[Two Utes]

Talent wise yes. But after reading Goon's article yesterday it's fairly clear Devon was a problem off the court, and it was a string of issues.


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Hate to tell some of you on this board I told you so about Daniels, but this one deserves an I told you so. Daniels was a cancer. In college basketball cancers eat a team out from the inside.

K's decision to part ways with him shows tremendous leadership and guts because many fans just don't understand how important chemistry and culture is to a college basketball team. They just see that he could be awesome and expect K to change his personality, which is almost impossible.

Daniels needs to go terrorize some other team and its players.

[sancho]

many fans just don't understand how important chemistry and culture is to a college basketball team.

We all get it, man. But guess what else is important to a college basketball team? Talent. Teams have won without chemistry before. There are precedents. But no team has ever won without good players.

This was a lose-lose. I'm sure it had to happen, but that doesn't make it a good thing for Utah.

[Two Utes]

We all get it, man. But guess what else is important to a college basketball team? Talent. Teams have won without chemistry before. There are precedents. But no team has ever won without good players.

This was a lose-lose. I'm sure it had to happen, but that doesn't make it a good thing for Utah.

You obviously don't get it. It's not a lose-lose. Go ahead and name the college basketball teams that won without good chemistry.

Final four this year? I saw them all play two rows from the court. They all play hard and play together as a team. They all have great leadership and chemistry.

I saw six of the elite 8 up close. Even Kentucky played hard and their players didn't have attitude.

[sancho]

You obviously don't get it. It's not a lose-lose. Go ahead and name the college basketball teams that won without good chemistry.

Final four this year? I saw them all play two rows from the court. They all play hard and play together as a team. They all have great leadership and chemistry.

I saw six of the elite 8 up close. Even Kentucky played hard and their players didn't have attitude.

Maybe you and I define chemistry differently. For me, playing hard and having chemistry are separate.

I'll take chemistry whenever I can. Certainly a good thing. Neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition, though. His teammates famously hated MJ (and he hated them), but his ability was enough to win games. Calipari has been taking teams far for years using one-and-dones. It would be hard for me to believe that in every instance, all the egos just magically jelled.

How is this not a lose-lose? Keeping him is "cancer," and losing him means losing the most promising guard on the team. That's the definition of lose-lose.

[Two Utes]

Maybe you and I define chemistry differently. For me, playing hard and having chemistry are separate.

I'll take chemistry whenever I can. Certainly a good thing. Neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition, though. His teammates famously hated MJ (and he hated them), but his ability was enough to win games. Calipari has been taking teams far for years using one-and-dones. It would be hard for me to believe that in every instance, all the egos just magically jelled.

How is this not a lose-lose? Keeping him is "cancer," and losing him means losing the most promising guard on the team. That's the definition of lose-lose.

He's not the most promising guard because he's a cancer. Pro basketball is different to an extent. (although Boogie Cousins is a cancer) And you are wrong about MJ. Those teams had great great leadership and chemistry.

We aren't losing our most promising guard. He's a cancer and chemistry problem. Those are actual qualities. That means he's not the most promising guard. You don't get it.

[sancho]

You don't get it.

Yeah, we are definitely defining chemistry differently. I thought we were talking about players behaving well and getting along. You are talking about teams playing well together. The Bulls certainly had chemistry by that definition.

I guess we will disagree. Daniels had to go. I don't have to like that he had to go. I think our team looks like it will struggle either with him or without him.

[sancho]

Trier returning to Arizona. Bummer.

[justaute]

IMO, having coached volleyball at club/D1 level, cancer has to go. That said, we need talent -- better talent. The coaching staff needs to do a better job of evaluating talent and behavior. I'm certainly not expecting perfection, but I think our coaches overall have done a poor job.

[DrumNFeather]

Charlie Moore transferring from Cal.

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[chrisrenrut]

Charlie Moore transferring from Cal.

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Good, that guy killed us every time we played him. Isn't he just a freshman? Definitely not a grad-transfer, so he won't be going anywhere in the PAC-12, otherwise he'd lose 2 years, right? .

[sancho]

Good, that guy killed us every time we played him. Isn't he just a freshman? Definitely not a grad-transfer, so he won't be going anywhere in the PAC-12, otherwise he'd lose 2 years, right? .

They say he wants to get closer to home in Chicago.

[SoCalPat]

You obviously don't get it. It's not a lose-lose. Go ahead and name the college basketball teams that won without good chemistry.

Final four this year? I saw them all play two rows from the court. They all play hard and play together as a team. They all have great leadership and chemistry.

I saw six of the elite 8 up close. Even Kentucky played hard and their players didn't have attitude.

Watch the recent 30 For 30 on John Calipari. We all share a red-hot hatred for UK basketball, but you cannot watch that doc and not leave without having huge respect for Calipari. The idea that he wins on talent alone is bushwhacked several times. There are many great coaches at the college level, but Cal, K., Bill Self and Roy Williams are in a league of their own.

[DrumNFeather]

Watch the recent 30 For 30 on John Calipari. We all share a red-hot hatred for UK basketball, but you cannot watch that doc and not leave without having huge respect for Calipari. The idea that he wins on talent alone is bushwhacked several times. There are many great coaches at the college level, but Cal, K., Bill Self and Roy Williams are in a league of their own.

That was a very good documentary...and the loyalty he has from former players is pretty impressive.

[Two Utes]

Watch the recent 30 For 30 on John Calipari. We all share a red-hot hatred for UK basketball, but you cannot watch that doc and not leave without having huge respect for Calipari. The idea that he wins on talent alone is bushwhacked several times. There are many great coaches at the college level, but Cal, K., Bill Self and Roy Williams are in a league of their own.

Really good 30 for 30.

[justaute]

Shaq's son, a 2018 5* recruit, just committed to Arizona. So, including Akot, Arizona now has two 5* commits for 2018.

[concerned]

this is starting to get depressing



Pac-12 Network (https://twitter.com/Pac12Network) Retweeted


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/810885951832473600/TeuZS-fA_bigger.jpgStanford Athletics‏Verified account @GoStanford (https://twitter.com/GoStanford) 11m11 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/GoStanford/status/854818913611243520)More



.@CoachJerodHaase (https://twitter.com/CoachJerodHaase)’s consensus top-15 national recruiting class is one of the highest rated classes in school history.#GoStanford (https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoStanford?src=hash)

[LA Ute]

Not really a big surprise: An endorsement deal with Nike, Under Armour or Adidas is not in the cards for Lonzo Ball.

Ball's father, LaVar, confirmed that the three shoe and apparel companies informed him they were not interested in completing a deal with his son. Sources with the three companies told ESPN.com that they indeed were moving on.

Never in the history of modern-day shoe endorsements have the big companies all stepped away from a potential top pick nearly two months before the NBA draft. But LaVar, who has been representing Lonzo in the deal, has offered something that has no precedent....



http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story/_/id/19264024 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19264024)

[sancho]

Wilner update. All the USC stars are staying, and people have high expectations for the Trojans.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/26/college-hotline-pac-12-football-weekend-reading-potential-baylor-fallout-at-arizona-state-upgrades-at-utah-and-wsu-and-more/

[bestellen]

Rabb and Leaf in the first round as well.

[U-Ute]

Rooks transferring to SDSU

870752356740194304


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[sancho]

Pac-12 draft winners/losers.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/23/college-hotline-pac-12-winners-and-losers-from-the-nba-draft/ (http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/23/college-hotline-pac-12-winners-and-losers-from-the-nba-draft/)

[LA Ute]

Lavar Ball is joke but people are letting him have his way.

https://sports.yahoo.com/lavar-ball-threatens-pull-aau-team-off-court-forces-adidas-replace-ref-mid-game-160917511.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb

[Rocker Ute]

Is there something about society now where we just reward bad behavior? There was a time where a guy like LaVar Ball would have tanked the chances of his sons getting scholarships let alone getting into the NBA.


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[LA Ute]

Is there something about society now where we just reward bad behavior? There was a time where a guy like LaVar Ball would have tanked the chances of his sons getting scholarships let alone getting into the NBA.


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When otherwise rational, reasonable people behave bizarrely or inexplicably, or excuse behavior they've always found abhorrent, look for the money.

[SoCalPat]

Is there something about society now where we just reward bad behavior? There was a time where a guy like LaVar Ball would have tanked the chances of his sons getting scholarships let alone getting into the NBA.


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You gotta give me an example, and I doubt you can, because Lavar Ball is unprecedented as far as meddling pops are concerned.

[LA Ute]

You gotta give me an example, and I doubt you can, because Lavar Ball is unprecedented as far as meddling pops are concerned.

I think he is just the cutting edge, and the latest expression of a trend. We will probably see more like him, although he probably sets the standard.

[hostile]

Is there something about society now where we just reward bad behavior? There was a time where a guy like LaVar Ball would have tanked the chances of his sons getting scholarships let alone getting into the NBA.


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I have neices and nephews who attend Chino Hills high school. My nephew is the same age as the youngest Ball. He plays bball but isn't a next level player. My parents went down this past winter to watch him in the sophomore/JV games. By the end of JV game it was SRO in the gym as people were arriving early and jockeying for seats to watch the varsity/LaMelo.

As a public HS administrator trying to balance a thin budget, I'm sure it helps having a sold out gym a couple nights/week.

[Utah]

Is there something about society now where we just reward bad behavior? There was a time where a guy like LaVar Ball would have tanked the chances of his sons getting scholarships let alone getting into the NBA.


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Ha ha. See, "Presidential Election, 2016"

It's the new cool.