The 2014 season football thread

[concerned]

I would impose a cost on the Y. I would not schedule games beyond 2018 if they are going to do this.

[sancho]

I would impose a cost on the Y. I would not schedule games beyond 2018 if they are going to do this.

I second this.

[Scratch]

I would impose a cost on the Y. I would not schedule games beyond 2018 if they are going to do this.

I really think the P12 needs to do something. Tell BYU that they will cancel all future games and not schedule any more until BYU agrees to be bound to the P12's transfer rules, at least for players who are on missions or who have not re-joined the P12 team post-mission.

[concerned]

I really think the P12 needs to do something. Tell BYU that they will cancel all future games and not schedule any more until BYU agrees to be bound to the P12's transfer rules, at least for players who are on missions or who have not re-joined the P12 team post-mission.

great idea.

[LA Ute]

But BYU has always been willing to participate in this circus. 3 of their past 4 QBs were mission grabs, including the current starter. This how it has always been, and it will not ever be different.

I was mainly referring to Harvey's lackluster performance when he played for Utah. BYU's going to all this trouble to get a player like him to transfer? Maybe they need him. We don't really need him. Speaks volumes about where their program is.

I do think the church should let mission presidents know they should stay out of athlete-missionaries' decisions. For that matter, I think mission presidents have no business advising their missionaries about individual life choices post-mission. Like Two Utes said, missionaries are often ridiculously malleable at that point in their lives.

[Diehard Ute]

I was mainly referring to Harvey's lackluster performance when he played for Utah. BYU's going to all this trouble to get a player like him to transfer? Maybe they need him. We don't really need him. Speaks volumes about where their program is.

I do think the church should let mission presidents know they should stay out of athlete-missionaries' decisions. For that matter, I think mission presidents have no business advising their missionaries about individual life choices post-mission. Like Two Utes said, missionaries are often ridiculously malleable at that point in their lives.

They probably shouldn't be "agents" either. That's what this guy basically did by being the spokesperson and contacting both coaching staffs (and why is he talking to the media (which is a stretch with vai))

[sancho]

I was mainly referring to Harvey's lackluster performance when he played for Utah. BYU's going to all this trouble to get a player like him to transfer? Maybe they need him. We don't really need him. Speaks volumes about where their program is.

He was heavily recruited and only played one year. Who knows how good he can be? I would love to see if Kyle and Co can make him a great DE.

If you told me a former 4 star guy was transferring to Utah after a rough freshman year, I'd be thrilled.

[Solon]

If you have ever been on a mission, you understand how easy it is for a leadership person to "gently encourage" a missionary to do what said leader wants.

This is a very diplomatic way of putting it.

NCAA transfer rules are ridiculous. If a kid gets a chemistry scholarship at another school, he doesn't have to avoid chemistry classes for a year.
LDS mission rules are ridiculous too. The kid's in Florida, not in outer Uzbekistan. A lot of this crap could have been straightened out with e-mail, a few phone calls, or maybe a brief visit home to prepare the way for the kid's fall semester.

[LA Ute]

He was heavily recruited and only played one year. Who knows how good he can be? I would love to see if Kyle and Co can make him a great DE.

If you told me a former 4 star guy was transferring to Utah after a rough freshman year, I'd be thrilled.

I wouldn't be thrilled. I'd just say "Good, maybe he'll become something great at Utah." But I see what you are saying.

Are BYU fans on Cougarboard excited about possibly getting Harvey?


I like concerned's idea about making BYU pay for this, and UTEopia's proposed policy, and scratch's nuclear war attitude. (But he always wants to nuke BYU.)


BTW, I think all Kyle is saying is that Harvey's a Ute right now. I don't see him saying he'll refuse to release him, although I imagine BYU fans are already burning Kyle in effigy over this.

[sancho]

T
NCAA transfer rules are ridiculous. If a kid gets a chemistry scholarship at another school, he doesn't have to avoid chemistry classes for a year.

But nobody cares about chemistry. I like me some transfer rules. I wish they were more clear and that decisions were out of coaches' hands.

[sancho]

I wouldn't be thrilled. I'd just say "Good, maybe he'll become something great at Utah." But I see what you are saying.

Are BYU fans on Cougarboard excited about possibly getting Harvey?

I don't know, but they should be. He's a high potential pick up.



(But he always wants to nuke BYU.)


Is there any part of any person's life that would be worse without BYU? The only people who would be hurt were BYU to close down tomorrow are the BYU faculty who would not be able to get jobs in real academia.



I imagine BYU fans are already burning Kyle in effigy over this.

When are they gonna run out of those effigies?

[EutawStUtesFan]

Don't know all the ins and outs, but if Bronco meets with Langi this Thursday without being released, isn't this a form of tampering? Just seems risky for BYU to take this route regardless if they think they have a loophole.

[401k Ute]

If he meets with BYU on Thursday, then yes it is an NCAA violation.

NCAA Bylaw 13.1.1.3.2.1

An institution shall not contact a student-athlete who has begun service on an official church mission without obtaining permission from the institution from which the student-athlete withdrew prior to beginning his or her mission if the student-athlete signed a National Letter of Intent (NLI) and attended the institution (with which he or she signed the NLI) as a full-time student. ... If such a student-athlete has completed his or her official church mission and does not enroll full-time in a collegiate institution within one calendar year of completion of the mission, an institution may contact the student-athlete without obtaining permission from the first institution.

BYU is trying to circumvent this by claiming that HL either didn't sign an LOI (patently false) or it wasn't filed with the NCAA. They seem to ignore the fact that Langi was enrolled at Utah and played a full season and participated in the next spring camp while being on scholarship.

[sharpone]

If he meets with BYU on Thursday, then yes it is an NCAA violation.

NCAA Bylaw 13.1.1.3.2.1

An institution shall not contact a student-athlete who has begun service on an official church mission without obtaining permission from the institution from which the student-athlete withdrew prior to beginning his or her mission if the student-athlete signed a National Letter of Intent (NLI) and attended the institution (with which he or she signed the NLI) as a full-time student. ... If such a student-athlete has completed his or her official church mission and does not enroll full-time in a collegiate institution within one calendar year of completion of the mission, an institution may contact the student-athlete without obtaining permission from the first institution.

BYU is trying to circumvent this by claiming that HL either didn't sign an LOI (patently false) or it wasn't filed with the NCAA. They seem to ignore the fact that Langi was enrolled at Utah and played a full season and participated in the next spring camp while being on scholarship.

Assuming this is correct, does anyone have any idea what the punishment would be were the NCAA to rule it as a violation?

[tooblue]

http://www.utahby5.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Two Utes http://www.utahby5.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.utahby5.com/showthread.php?p=37463#post37463) If you have ever been on a mission, you understand how easy it is for a leadership person to "gently encourage" a missionary to do what said leader wants

This is a very diplomatic way of putting it.

NCAA transfer rules are ridiculous. If a kid gets a chemistry scholarship at another school, he doesn't have to avoid chemistry classes for a year.
LDS mission rules are ridiculous too. The kid's in Florida, not in outer Uzbekistan. A lot of this crap could have been straightened out with e-mail, a few phone calls, or maybe a brief visit home to prepare the way for the kid's fall semester.

Yah, I remember how brainwashed you both were when you got home from your missions. It was scary. It's amazing anyone makes their own decisions after the influence of a mission :rolleyes: One thing to note, that I noticed in the article, is that his mission president is a Utah alum ... the world's an awful place when you can't trust your own not to legitimately worry about the best interests of the young man in question. I'm sure they never really talked about life in general. There must have always been secret agenda to get the kid to go to the Y. There's no way he'd make that choice on his own :blink:

[tooblue]

Is there any part of any person's life that would be worse without BYU? The only people who would be hurt were BYU to close down tomorrow are the BYU faculty who would not be able to get jobs in real academia.

This is some weird reverse anti-academic thinking. Do BYU professors not have real PhD's? Do they not know how to do research, after having received legitimate research training? Just wondering.

[sancho]

This is some weird reverse anti-academic thinking. Do BYU professors not have real PhD's? Do they not know how to do research, after having received legitimate research training? Just wondering.

I've known 4 people with PhDs who went on the job market and struck out completely on 50 or so applications only to jump to the top of the list for a BYU position simply because they were LDS. I know two more who made final interviews.

I know that's anecdotal, but there must be quite a few who would struggle to find a tenure track position at another university.

I'm not sure everyone understands just how strong the hiring preference for LDS faculty is in Provo.

[sancho]

I'm sure they never really talked about life in general. There must have always been secret agenda to get the kid to go to the Y. There's no way he'd make that choice on his own.

There's no way he should make it, on his own or not.

Again, it seems there are many things that influenced his decision, and the mission president is only one of them. I don't blame him. If I were in a position of influence and could, without breaking any rules, convince a kid to choose Utah, I know I would do it. What kind of fan would I be otherwise?

[401k Ute]

Matthew Piper from the SL Trib just tweeted that Langi did not sign a Letter of Intent and is therefore a free agent and able to go wherever he pleases.

[tooblue]

There's no way he should make it, on his own or not.

Again, it seems there are many things that influenced his decision, and the mission president is only one of them. I don't blame him. If I were in a position of influence and could, without breaking any rules, convince a kid to choose Utah, I know I would do it. What kind of fan would I be otherwise?

My intent is not to pile on. I'm not trolling either. Maybe Two Utes a little. He won't respond though. We are related. He's smarter than me—at least that's how the family dynamic works ;-) But yes, the kid should absolutely make this decision as that, at least in part, is what missions are for. And what I mean by "that decision" is any like life-changing decision any young person could make while serving a mission.

[sancho]

Matthew Piper from the SL Trib just tweeted that Langi did not sign a Letter of Intent and is therefore a free agent and able to go wherever he pleases.

He really should talk this out with parents and coaches before signing anything. He should also know that I will not wish him the best if he leaves me.

[U-Ute]

Matthew Piper from the SL Trib just tweeted that Langi did not sign a Letter of Intent and is therefore a free agent and able to go wherever he pleases.

I admit I don't know this: is it required for him to sign one to play?

[sancho]

And what I mean by "that decision" is any like life-changing decision any young person could make while serving a mission.

Oh, I'm all for decision making. This just happens to be a bad decision. That's all. Some choices really are black or white (blue or red).

[Two Utes]

Yah, I remember how brainwashed you both were when you got home from your missions. It was scary. It's amazing anyone makes their own decisions after the influence of a mission :rolleyes: One thing to note, that I noticed in the article, is that his mission president is a Utah alum ... the world's an awful place when you can't trust your own not to legitimately worry about the best interests of the young man in question. I'm sure they never really talked about life in general. There must have always been secret agenda to get the kid to go to the Y. There's no way he'd make that choice on his own :blink:

His kid payed football at BYU as late as 2010 and he apparently owns approved student housing down there.

[sancho]

His kid payed football at BYU as late as 2010 and he apparently owns approved student housing down there.

Oh yeah, it's clear this is a fan boy mission president, which is fine. I'm a fan, too.

[sancho]

I admit I don't know this: is it required for him to sign one to play?

He isn't even allowed to sign one as an early enrollee. There was absolutely nothing Utah could do to lock him up.

[tooblue]

His kid payed football at BYU as late as 2010 and he apparently owns approved student housing down there.

Your kid plays ball somewhere other than Utah. Should the rabid Ute fans be worrying about you and any influence you might have on future prospects?

I have absolute faith in you that you are the kind of person that would only advise based upon what you believe is in the best interest of that person. But I know you well. And we could give this mission president the benefit of the doubt couldn't we?

[LA Ute]

Don't know all the ins and outs, but if Bronco meets with Langi this Thursday without being released, isn't this a form of tampering? Just seems risky for BYU to take this route regardless if they think they have a loophole.

Like I said, they must really want Harvey because he's not falling into their laps and they are willing to push a loophole and risk the PR hit from all of this.

[USS Utah]

He isn't even allowed to sign one as an early enrollee. There was absolutely nothing Utah could do to lock him up.

Financial aid docs signed by an early enrollee are, or at least used to be, the equivalent of an NLI.

[401k Ute]

He isn't even allowed to sign one as an early enrollee. There was absolutely nothing Utah could do to lock him up.

In the future you don't let your mission kids enroll early and have them sign the LOI, which in the long run makes me think you sign a lot fewer mission kids.

[sancho]

Your kid plays ball somewhere other than Utah. Should the rabid Ute fans be worrying about you and any influence you might have on future prospects?

I worry about this all the time with two utes.

There's only one school that regularly and repeatedly recruits LDS missionaries away from Utah. That school is not in OK.

[jrj84105]

Enrolling and receiving aid is the ONLY thing that locks a missionary up. A LOI expires after two years, so having an LOI from a sign and send is no more binding than a verbal commitment unless the kid comes home early and in the imaginary world where it prevents BYU from recruiting a kid while the LOI is in effect. Once a player enrolls and receives aid, he is subject to transfer rules, and the Riley rule ensures that those transfer penalties apply to RMs regardless of their time away from the game. Having an athlete enroll prior to his missionary service makes said missionary 100% subject to transfer penalties. The LOI is the temporarily binding agreement of intent to receive scholarship tuition relief in exchange for play. Enrollment as a scholarship athlete is the 100% permanent binding execution of aid in exchange for play and makes an LOI irrelevant.

[tooblue]

I worry about this all the time with two utes.

There's only one school that regularly and repeatedly recruits LDS missionaries away from Utah. That school is not in OK.

I'm not worried about Two Utes. I amended my post to say so.

[sancho]

In the future you don't let your mission kids enroll early and have them sign the LOI, which in the long run makes me think you sign a lot fewer mission kids.

The difference is just whether or not he has to sit out a year, right? So we would probably lose him either way.

It is funny if we get bit by doing what appeared to be a smart thing and enrolling him early.

This will reach a point of Utah coaches discouraging missions, which is something I don't want. The LDS Church should want "good" LDS kids to play all over the place. Manti Teo, before the fake girlfriend thing, was mostly known as that great Mormon kid at the Catholic school.

[Two Utes]

Your kid plays ball somewhere other than Utah. Should the rabid Ute fans be worrying about you and any influence you might have on future prospects?

I have absolute faith in you that you are the kind of person that would only advise based upon what you believe is in the best interest of that person. But I know you well. And we could give this mission president the benefit of the doubt couldn't we?

Yeah, because my influence on an athlete is similar to a Mission President and his missionary.

But of course, he's a Mission President so he is above reproach. How could I have forgotten that?

If this is where the discussion is going, then you have the answer is to why I refuse to respond any further

[LA Ute]

This is such an odd quirk in the Utah-BYU relationship. It's unimaginable anywhere else. Think USC-UCLA or OSU-Michigan.

[tooblue]

Yeah, because my influence on an athlete is similar to a Mission President and his missionary.

But of course, he's a Mission President so he is above reproach. How could I have forgotten that?

If this is where the discussion is going, then you have the answer is to why I refuse to respond any further

You are a coach, a father and a highly successful and respected professional. Modesty aside, you wield much more influence than you give yourself credit. And to be clear, I am not arguing degree of influence. That is your tract, which is an overly emotional one to situate your self in, in my opinion. But have at it.

[tooblue]

This is such an odd quirk in the Utah-BYU relationship. It's unimaginable anywhere else. Think USC-UCLA or OSU-Michigan.

It is a unique quirk, but the kind of thinking demonstrated below isn't ... lol:


There should really be no hard feelings about Langi. He's not a quality P12 RB IMO,he doesn't want to play D at U,he can play RB at BYU.

https://twitter.com/tonyparkszone/status/486548550147248128

[DrumNFeather]

Matthew Piper from the SL Trib just tweeted that Langi did not sign a Letter of Intent and is therefore a free agent and able to go wherever he pleases.

So here's what is interesting about this nugget. If this is true, then it is likely that everyone knew that it was at least possible for Langi to walk when he got home...so my question is, what the heck is Vai doing even calling Kyle (on vacation, no less) for a comment? This whole thing is so weird.

[U-Ute]

So here's what is interesting about this nugget. If this is true, then it is likely that everyone knew that it was at least possible for Langi to walk when he got home...so my question is, what the heck is Vai doing even calling Kyle (on vacation, no less) for a comment? This whole thing is so weird.

This whole thing seems to be being driven by this mission president, and Vai is running around talking to everyone because he knows the rabid BYU fan base will eat this up.

I say if he wants to stay, welcome back. If he wants to go, that door shuts quickly so watch out.

I doubt Kyle is losing any sleep over this.

[sancho]

I doubt Kyle is losing any sleep over this.

He's too busy losing sleep over Two Utes stealing recruits to the dust bowl.

[kccougar]

This whole thing seems to be being driven by this mission president, and Vai is running around talking to everyone because he knows the rabid BYU fan base will eat this up.

I say if he wants to stay, welcome back. If he wants to go, that door shuts quickly so watch out.

I doubt Kyle is losing any sleep over this.

It's not being driven by the Mission President. Harvey pretty much decided he wasn't returning to the U the day he decided to serve a mission.

[U-Ute]

It's not being driven by the Mission President. Harvey pretty much decided he wasn't returning to the U the day he decided to serve a mission.

And Harvey ran to Vai to tell him this?

[UBlender]

So here's what is interesting about this nugget. If this is true, then it is likely that everyone knew that it was at least possible for Langi to walk when he got home...so my question is, what the heck is Vai doing even calling Kyle (on vacation, no less) for a comment? This whole thing is so weird.

What is Vai doing? Vai is helping orchestrate the whole thing by making Utah as the villain before Whittingham even had a chance to talk directly to Langi. Now Whittingham either complies and BYU gets open season on all of Utah's missionaries or Kyle takes the hardline stance on not releasing him and he is the big, mean coach. It's a calculated move by Vai to push this story out now rather than in a week or two when the sides have had a chance to meet. Pretty much a dick move on his part.

[UBlender]

It's not being driven by the Mission President. Harvey pretty much decided he wasn't returning to the U the day he decided to serve a mission.

That's possible but it's not consistent with the accounts of many people closely involved, apparently including Harvey's own parents.

[U-Ute]

What is Vai doing? Vai is helping orchestrate the whole thing by making Utah as the villain before Whittingham even had a chance to talk directly to Langi. Now Whittingham either complies and BYU gets open season on all of Utah's missionaries or Kyle takes the hardline stance on not releasing him and he is the big, mean coach. It's a calculated move by Vai to push this story out now rather than in a week or two when the sides have had a chance to meet. Pretty much a dick move on his part.

That sounds way too Machiavellian to me.

I think Vai is just being self serving in furthering his career.

[sancho]

That sounds way too Machiavellian to me.

I think Vai is just being self serving in furthering his career.

Agree. I'm not sure Vai is sharp enough to be calculating.

[Two Utes]

It's not being driven by the Mission President. Harvey pretty much decided he wasn't returning to the U the day he decided to serve a mission.


There you have it folks. Kccougar has the scoop.

However, I am pretty sure (actually certain) that others here on this board are more familiar about Langhi, where he was located and what his mindset was when he left, than Kccougar.

[sancho]

However, I am pretty sure (actually certain) that others here on this board are more familiar about Langhi, where he was located and what his mindset was when he left, than Kccougar.

I don't know. He made a pretty compelling case.

[kccougar]

There you have it folks. Kccougar has the scoop.

However, I am pretty sure (actually certain) that others here on this board are more familiar about Langhi, where he was located and what his mindset was when he left, than Kccougar.

Whatever. I'm on the record over a year ago on Langi.

[SoCalPat]

You can't let Langi go if you're Kyle. He's a future opponent and Utah has worked too hard since the days of McBride to be mission friendly. We're not in the business of letting mission kids get their feet wet and transfer elsewhere. Fortunately, with the age of mission service being lowered, I'm hopeful that this is one of the last such incidents of this kind. At the same time, Kyle might not be in a position within the athletic department to flex this kind of clout. The end of Mac's career is filled with examples of him coming up on the short end when he and the athletic department didn't see eye-to-eye on a particular matter. I can't help draw parallels to Sione Havili at this point.

Utah has paid its price to be accommodating to Langi. If Langi isn't willing to live up to his commitment, then he has to pay a price, and that's paying his own way to BYU for a year.

I can't speak for whatever personal change Langi has made while on his mission, but the primary reason he chose Utah over USC was the uncertainty that hung over the USC program with probation and all. Harvey can say what he wants about personal evolvement and such, but if this is really about playing RB vs. playing defense, it's just another move that suits his opportunistic ends. There's nothing wrong with that, but at least be up front about it and don't throw the Utah football program and its fans under the bus.

[UtahsMrSports]

Like pavlov's bell of old, this news has brought the dogs to the table(kcougar, tooblue). Harvey seems disingenuous as a person. He (or his family....) told tge trib two months ago that he wanted to switch to defense at utah. If ive learned anything about disingenuous people.....you are better off without them around.

[tooblue]

Like pavlov's bell of old, this news has brought the dogs to the table(kcougar, tooblue). Harvey seems disingenuous as a person. He (or his family....) told tge trib two months ago that he wanted to switch to defense at utah. If ive learned anything about disingenuous people.....you are better off without them around.

Sorry, been busy lately MrSports ... glad to see you missed me. This isn't a done deal. He may just decide to stay at Utah. But I will say, this site has been missing something:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10421329_588312267950403_8574802349860217433_n.jpg ?oh=0a4d07313f144a1c9f0e16d8b47239b1&oe=54213CD7&__gda__=1412548958_6b2e4a9821b5eab6ac4ca7b97278e7a 4

https://www.facebook.com/etam.grupa

[UtahsMrSports]

Oh and on the subject of one vai sikahema.....i love his articles typically. But this trash makes him come off as a jeff benedict level tool.

[mUUser]

KW should make it as painful & difficult as possible for a player to transfer to another P12 team, BYU, USU or any team on the schedule for the remainder of the kids eligibility, save for exceptional circumstances (death/illness of a parent etc...). The prompting of the HG doesn't qualify. Forget about the local PR. Those interested in Utah will understand, and the CA & TX kids won't give a crap.

[Rocker Ute]

It's not being driven by the Mission President. Harvey pretty much decided he wasn't returning to the U the day he decided to serve a mission.

I don't buy that. If it was decided then why was he requesting to be a DE a couple of months ago at the U? Missionaries shouldn't make decisions like this while on their missions and LDS football programs should even accept communication from them while they are away. It's hard enough to stay focused, I can't imagine what it would be like getting drawing of me in BYU football gear from Bronco while out.

[Mormon Red Death]

Like pavlov's bell of old, this news has brought the dogs to the table(kcougar, tooblue). Harvey seems disingenuous as a person. He (or his family....) told tge trib two months ago that he wanted to switch to defense at utah. If ive learned anything about disingenuous people.....you are better off without them around.

He isn't disingenuous. .. He's just a 21 year old kid who for v the past 2 years has thought the sun rises and sets in his Mission presidents garments.

The glow of the mission has many people wanting to go to byu on their return only to realize w what a colossal mistake that would be upon actually returning. In fact a famous person on, this very board actually enrolled there but quickly changed his mind upon realizing how poor of a decision that might be. (Not me.... I've never once considered going there).

He needs to sack up and talk to Kyle face to face.

Btw the LDS church looks terrible in this. 1. You let one of your mission presidents get involved in college football
2. Your church owned paper is starting shit




Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

[tooblue]

He isn't disingenuous. .. He's just a 21 year old kid who for v the past 2 years has thought the sun rises and sets in his Mission presidents garments.

The glow of the mission has many people wanting to go to byu on their return only to realize w what a colossal mistake that would be upon actually returning. In fact a famous person on, this very board actually enrolled there but quickly changed his mind upon realizing how poor of a decision that might be. (Not me.... I've never once considered going there).

He needs to sack up and talk to Kyle face to face.

Btw the LDS church looks terrible in this. 1. You let one of your mission presidents get involved in college football
2. Your church owned paper is starting shit

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

I didn't want to go to BYU when I returned home from my mission ... maybe Two Utes did?

[Scorcho]

"I look forward to standards that will require me to be clean-shaven and wear my hair short."

:rofl: Who says that?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865606467/Harvey-Langi-hopes-to-transfer-from-Utah-to-BYU-after-returning-from-LDS-mission-this-week.html

How long before Harvey starts referring to it as the Lord's University

[Mormon Red Death]

I didn't want to go to BYU when I returned home from my mission ... maybe Two Utes did?

Nope

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

[sancho]

"I look forward to standards that will require me to be clean-shaven and wear my hair short."


The continued campaign against facial hair makes me angrier than any other part of the whole thing.


Whatever. I'm on the record over a year ago on Langi.

Yes, you and every other BYU fan on the internet. Every time anyone from another school leaves on a mission, there is a collective prediction of a transfer.

[Crimsonute]

Thanks KCcoug (Franchuck). Any more BYU Mission Recruiting news? Lots of photos of Chase Hansen on his mission in Ute gear. Can't they get over there?

[sancho]

Can't they get over there?

They are over there. They've got an army working on Chase. We'll see.

Day dreaming about Scratch's suggestion. I have never been in the "don't play BYU" camp, but I do like the idea of hurting BYU. If we ever do this (unlikely), we should really go for the jugular and add USU as a 1-1 indefinitely on the condition that USU also stop playing BYU. Punch two holes in that schedule.

[wally]

This is a weird article.

However it does reinforce my assertion that this rivalry still burns hot. As a fan of this rivalry one of my pet peeves with my fellow Utes is the argument that we have “outgrown” BYU as our rival and that somehow we are now bigger rivals with Colorado. Total bullshit. You are lying to yourselves if you believe this.

[UTEopia]

It is neither here nor there whether Harvey Langi returns to Utah or transfers to BYU. However, I think this situation requires an examination of both the NCAA rules respecting church service and the U’s policies respecting requests for releases.


With respect to the NCAA, I have the following suggestions:




A prospective student athlete who signs a letter of intent and does not start his/her eligibility clock before leaving for church service may be offered the opportunity by the school with which he originally signed his/her LOI to sign one LOI extension agreement during the subsequent signing period with the same school with which he initially signed his/her LOI extending the provisions of the initial LOI for a period of time not to exceed 18 months. An extension agreement shall not count against any LOI numerical limitations which might exist.



I think this protects both the institution and the student. I know of situations where schools hope a player does not come back or want to come back. Not offering an extension would let the kid know where he stands. Likewise, a student not signing the extension tells the school not to count on him/her.


2. A student athlete whose eligibility clock has started and who receives an athletic grant-in-aid who chooses to undertake full-time church service shall have the option of suspending the running of his/her eligibility clock during period of full-time church service or allowing the eligibility clock to continue to run during the period of full-time church service. A student athlete who elects to suspend the running of the eligibility clock shall, during the period of full-time church service, be considered for all other purposes as if he/she were not on full-time church service. A student athlete may elect at anytime during the period of full-time church service to not have his eligibility clock suspended, in which case he/she shall be subject to the same rules and regulations as if he/she were not on church service. In such cases, the eligibility clock will be calculated as if it had never been suspended.


I think this protects both the student and the institution and is neutral towards church service. A student athlete is protected if he/she undertakes church service but receives no advantage from doing so.


With respect to the U’s policies, I think the administration could help coaches if they had a policy in place stating that the University will only consider requests for releases (from LOI’s or transfers) when that request is made by the prospective student-athlete or student athlete in an in-person, face-to-face meeting with the head coach. No requests from third parties will ever be considered.

[UTEopia]

This is a weird article.

However it does reinforce my assertion that this rivalry still burns hot. As a fan of this rivalry one of my pet peeves with my fellow Utes is the argument that we have “outgrown” BYU as our rival and that somehow we are now bigger rivals with Colorado. Total bullshit. You are lying to yourselves if you believe this.


I tend to agree that I still consider BYU to be our chief rival. However, unlike days past, I pay very little attention to what BYU is doing on the field or the court except when they are playing the U. Whether they beat or lose to Gonzaga or UNLV or anyone else is of no concern to me. This makes the rivalry different for me than it was in the past. I think there may come a time in the future where Colorado replaces BYU for me, but it is not now. Here's how I look at it. Would I switch a win against BYU for a win against a PAC 12 opponent? No, unless it was Oregon, Stanford or USC. But I would switch it for a win against a PAC 12 opponent and a 28 point lead going into the 4th quarter of a game against another PAC 12 opponent.

[kccougar]

Thanks KCcoug (Franchuck). Any more BYU Mission Recruiting news? Lots of photos of Chase Hansen on his mission in Ute gear. Can't they get over there?

Be patient.

[LA Ute]

Just for a change of pace, here's an article about Morgan Scalley and Utah's approach to recruiting:

http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/58158000-219/utah-scalley-coach-state.html.csp

[401k Ute]

It is neither here nor there whether Harvey Langi returns to Utah or transfers to BYU. However, I think this situation requires an examination of both the NCAA rules respecting church service and the U’s policies respecting requests for releases.


With respect to the NCAA, I have the following suggestions:




A prospective student athlete who signs a letter of intent and does not start his/her eligibility clock before leaving for church service may be offered the opportunity by the school with which he originally signed his/her LOI to sign one LOI extension agreement during the subsequent signing period with the same school with which he initially signed his/her LOI extending the provisions of the initial LOI for a period of time not to exceed 18 months. An extension agreement shall not count against any LOI numerical limitations which might exist.



I think this protects both the institution and the student. I know of situations where schools hope a player does not come back or want to come back. Not offering an extension would let the kid know where he stands. Likewise, a student not signing the extension tells the school not to count on him/her.


2. A student athlete whose eligibility clock has started and who receives an athletic grant-in-aid who chooses to undertake full-time church service shall have the option of suspending the running of his/her eligibility clock during period of full-time church service or allowing the eligibility clock to continue to run during the period of full-time church service. A student athlete who elects to suspend the running of the eligibility clock shall, during the period of full-time church service, be considered for all other purposes as if he/she were not on full-time church service. A student athlete may elect at anytime during the period of full-time church service to not have his eligibility clock suspended, in which case he/she shall be subject to the same rules and regulations as if he/she were not on church service. In such cases, the eligibility clock will be calculated as if it had never been suspended.


I think this protects both the student and the institution and is neutral towards church service. A student athlete is protected if he/she undertakes church service but receives no advantage from doing so.


With respect to the U’s policies, I think the administration could help coaches if they had a policy in place stating that the University will only consider requests for releases (from LOI’s or transfers) when that request is made by the prospective student-athlete or student athlete in an in-person, face-to-face meeting with the head coach. No requests from third parties will ever be considered.






While I like your thought process here, it still wouldn't have helped in the case of Langi. The problem there was the combination of enrolling early and signing a financial aid agreement (and thereby not signing an LOI) and then serving a mission. I've been told that at some point the financial aid agreement was looked at as being the same as the LOI in cases like this, but that doesn't seem to be the case now. I'm not 100% positive if that was actually the case and, if it is, when it changed, but it's a huge loophole right now and BYU took advantage of it.

Now the concern, of course, it that Chase Hansen was an early enrollee and could potentially be poached as well. And a school like Stanford has to be concerned about missionaries like Brandon Fanaika and Sean Barton as well.

[UTEopia]

While I like your thought process here, it still wouldn't have helped in the case of Langi. The problem there was the combination of enrolling early and signing a financial aid agreement (and thereby not signing an LOI) and then serving a mission. I've been told that at some point the financial aid agreement was looked at as being the same as the LOI in cases like this, but that doesn't seem to be the case now. I'm not 100% positive if that was actually the case and, if it is, when it changed, but it's a huge loophole right now and BYU took advantage of it.

Now the concern, of course, it that Chase Hansen was an early enrollee and could potentially be poached as well. And a school like Stanford has to be concerned about missionaries like Brandon Fanaika and Sean Barton as well.

If it would have been in place at the time Langi attended the U and received athletic grant-in-aid, it would have applied to him. He would have the choice of needing a release when returning from his mission or having his clock continue to run while serving his mission. No rule should ever prevent a student from transferring however the rule I suggest places the student athlete who has received an athletic grant-in-aid and then serves a mission in the same shoes he would have been in had he not served except his eligibility clock is paused.

BYU is not the only school that has contact with missionaries or their families while they are on their missions. I know the U had indirect contact with Sua'filo's parents while he was gone and hoped he might transfer and I would be surprised if they have not had indirect contact with Barton and Fanaika's families. It is almost impossible to prevent indirect contact.

[Diehard Ute]

If it would have been in place at the time Langi attended the U and received athletic grant-in-aid, it would have applied to him. He would have the choice of needing a release when returning from his mission or having his clock continue to run while serving his mission. No rule should ever prevent a student from transferring however the rule I suggest places the student athlete who has received an athletic grant-in-aid and then serves a mission in the same shoes he would have been in had he not served except his eligibility clock is paused.

BYU is not the only school that has contact with missionaries or their families while they are on their missions. I know the U had indirect contact with Sua'filo's parents while he was gone and hoped he might transfer and I would be surprised if they have not had indirect contact with Barton and Fanaika's families. It is almost impossible to prevent indirect contact.

I think that's one area where the U has drawn a different line though, even with their own missionaries. While they do keep written correspondence (that they described more as a 'newsletter') with the actual missionary, Kyle stated he prefers no other contact than that and instead speaks to families. Kyle has made it clear he doesn't want football interfering with the mission, it seems BYU does not feel the same way.

I know some claim "but the player started it", but that is easy to stop. All that needs to be said is "we'll discuss this when you're home"....and from where I sit if it's not your player that should always be the only response.

As some media members have pointed out, BYU has a much easier road to hoe when it comes to transfers because they don't have conference rules hanging over their heads....and it seems they're willing to do whatever is necessary to fill their scholarship pool.

[Scorcho]

it will be intersting to see how going on a mission right out of high school will affect local college athletics? I see it as both a benefit and a potential setback. Clearly 4-5 years of continous play without a two year break is a positive, but In Langhi's case his freshman year allowed Utah got to determine that he was better suited to play defense.

I also think that it should slightly help players like Trevor Rielly and Jake Murphy who want to play in the NFL but see the setbacks of entering the league at an older age than most Jr's & Sr's.

[UTEopia]

The Langi and the Osa Masina issues have casted a dark cloud over Utah football and although those two events are not encouraging, I did watch something that does leave me somewhat encouraged about the upcoming season; the 2013 Utah/Stanford game. That game reminded me that when we got average to above average QB play we were pretty good. As I look at the upcoming season, I think we will be equal or better personnel wise at a number of positions:
QB - I think the addition of Kendal Thompson and the added experience of Manning and Shultz make us better at this position than we were a year ago. If Travis can stay healthy I would say we are substantially better.
RB - Poole, Booker and McCormick are a little better than Poole, York and Radley
WR - Scott, Hatfield, Clay will be better than Denham and Fitz
OL - I think this is a push although there is a good chance that we will be better
TE - Murphy was pretty good and I think we will be a little behind where we were with him
DT - Equal
DE - Reilly was a beast and I don't think we have a guy of his caliber. However, Fanaika, Dimick and Pita give us better depth.
LB - Equal - Better when Paul returns.
S - Equal
CB - Equal
K/P - Equal

I also think we are fortunate to get WSU early in the year when we have traditionally been healthier and play better. I hope we can go a minimum of 3-1 to start the year against ISU, Fresno, Michigan and WSU, 1-3 against UCLA, Oregon St., Stanford and USC and at least 2-2 against ASU, Oregon, Arizona and CU.

If every game was played tomorrow, I would have them as follows:
ISU - W
Fresno - W
Michigan - L
WSU - W
UCLA - L
OSU - W
Stanford - L
USC - W
ASU - L
Oregon - L
Arizona - W
CU - W

[SoCalPat]

The Langi and the Osa Masina issues have casted a dark cloud over Utah football and although those two events are not encouraging, I did watch something that does leave me somewhat encouraged about the upcoming season; the 2013 Utah/Stanford game. That game reminded me that when we got average to above average QB play we were pretty good. As I look at the upcoming season, I think we will be equal or better personnel wise at a number of positions:
QB - I think the addition of Kendal Thompson and the added experience of Manning and Shultz make us better at this position than we were a year ago. If Travis can stay healthy I would say we are substantially better.
RB - Poole, Booker and McCormick are a little better than Poole, York and Radley
WR - Scott, Hatfield, Clay will be better than Denham and Fitz
OL - I think this is a push although there is a good chance that we will be better
TE - Murphy was pretty good and I think we will be a little behind where we were with him
DT - Equal
DE - Reilly was a beast and I don't think we have a guy of his caliber. However, Fanaika, Dimick and Pita give us better depth.
LB - Equal - Better when Paul returns.
S - Equal
CB - Equal
K/P - Equal

I also think we are fortunate to get WSU early in the year when we have traditionally been healthier and play better. I hope we can go a minimum of 3-1 to start the year against ISU, Fresno, Michigan and WSU, 1-3 against UCLA, Oregon St., Stanford and USC and at least 2-2 against ASU, Oregon, Arizona and CU.

If every game was played tomorrow, I would have them as follows:
ISU - W
Fresno - W
Michigan - L
WSU - W
UCLA - L
OSU - W
Stanford - L
USC - W
ASU - L
Oregon - L
Arizona - W
CU - W

Michigan is a huge swing game for both programs. Two treading-water programs whose respective seasons could play out pretty predictably with the result of this game. If Utah wins, we can think 8 wins (or better?) so long as we stay healthy. If Michigan loses, Hoke's seat immediately becomes one of the 10 hottest in the nation.

[jrj84105]

Michigan is a huge swing game for both programs. Two treading-water programs whose respective seasons could play out pretty predictably with the result of this game. If Utah wins, we can think 8 wins (or better?) so long as we stay healthy. If Michigan loses, Hoke's seat immediately becomes one of the 10 hottest in the nation.

Last year I had Stanford as our big win. This year it will be UCLA. One opposing QB from our conference is going to get hit by the injury bug, and I'm going to predict that UT, whose defense has been relishing the opportunity to pound Taysom hill into the ground since last year, will succeed in that effort and then continue their assault on mobile QB's against UCLA. I'm predicting that we beat a Hundley-less UCLA on the road this year.

Not wishing injuries on anyone, but they're a part of the game. Despite recent experience, quarterbacks can be injured playing for a team other than Utah.

[U-Ute]

The Langi and the Osa Masina issues have casted a dark cloud over Utah football and although those two events are not encouraging, I did watch something that does leave me somewhat encouraged about the upcoming season; the 2013 Utah/Stanford game. That game reminded me that when we got average to above average QB play we were pretty good. As I look at the upcoming season, I think we will be equal or better personnel wise at a number of positions:
QB - I think the addition of Kendal Thompson and the added experience of Manning and Shultz make us better at this position than we were a year ago. If Travis can stay healthy I would say we are substantially better.
RB - Poole, Booker and McCormick are a little better than Poole, York and Radley
WR - Scott, Hatfield, Clay will be better than Denham and Fitz
OL - I think this is a push although there is a good chance that we will be better
TE - Murphy was pretty good and I think we will be a little behind where we were with him
DT - Equal
DE - Reilly was a beast and I don't think we have a guy of his caliber. However, Fanaika, Dimick and Pita give us better depth.
LB - Equal - Better when Paul returns.
S - Equal
CB - Equal
K/P - Equal

I also think we are fortunate to get WSU early in the year when we have traditionally been healthier and play better. I hope we can go a minimum of 3-1 to start the year against ISU, Fresno, Michigan and WSU, 1-3 against UCLA, Oregon St., Stanford and USC and at least 2-2 against ASU, Oregon, Arizona and CU.

If every game was played tomorrow, I would have them as follows:
ISU - W
Fresno - W
Michigan - L
WSU - W
UCLA - L
OSU - W
Stanford - L
USC - W
ASU - L
Oregon - L
Arizona - W
CU - W

I'm with you. I think having Wilson return gives us two more wins, and we end up with 7 wins instead of 5.

If Wilson didn't return, we would be seeing Thompson going through the growing pains that Wilson did last year.

The key will be injuries. We still don't have the kind of depth that we require to play this kind of schedule with injuries.

[sancho]

It is neither here nor there whether Harvey Langi returns to Utah or transfers to BYU.


Harvey is apparently meeting with the Utes today. Hopefully, he decides to stick around. We have a bit of an advantage in that he met with Bronco yesterday and was reminded just how awful that guy is.

[UTEopia]

Harvey is apparently meeting with the Utes today. Hopefully, he decides to stick around. We have a bit of an advantage in that he met with Bronco yesterday and was reminded just how awful that guy is.

Interesting, Bronco usually requires kids to commit on the spot or he withdraws the offer.

[UBlender]

Harvey is apparently meeting with the Utes today. Hopefully, he decides to stick around. We have a bit of an advantage in that he met with Bronco yesterday and was reminded just how awful that guy is.

Sounds like the Whitt-Langi meeting is actually Tuesday. It would be nice for Utah to get a win here, not because he's an incredibly great player (he may be in time with a position change) but because Utah football could really use some good news.

[UTEopia]

Sounds like the Whitt-Langi meeting is actually Tuesday. It would be nice for Utah to get a win here, not because he's an incredibly great player (he may be in time with a position change) but because Utah football could really use some good news.


What's the old adage? Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

[LA Ute]

I think Langi should just live his life. Whether he stays or goes, we didn't expect big things out of him after his disappointing first year. I do think his MP and Vai should've stayed out of the matter, however. The MP has more to answer for than Vai does. Vai wouldn't have been involved but for the MP.

I noticed that the folks at the BYU boards are now rubbing their hands over the possibility that Chase will transfer too. Seems kinda embarrassing to them to be doing that, if you ask me. Can't they just get these kids to commit out of high school?

[OrangeUte]

The rule should be universal across the FBS teams, and it should be free transfers with a year sit down to any school not on a future schedule. That's plenty generous to the students while still providing incentive to stay and discouraging active recruiting from the coaches most likely to know and have contact with the students. If it were a division wide rule, we wouldn't always have to hear the media rip apart a coach/AD/university who won't grant a release.

Totally agree. A coworker and I were just having this same discussion today.

[sancho]

I think Langi should just live his life.

Well, yeah. Everyone does. But there's nothing wrong with hoping someone makes a good choice.



Whether he stays or goes, we didn't expect big things out of him after his disappointing first year.

People quit on athletes too early. A disappointing freshman year doesn't mean much. He could still end up being great, and I'd prefer we find out with him on our side.



I do think his MP and Vai should've stayed out of the matter, however. The MP has more to answer for than Vai does. Vai wouldn't have been involved but for the MP.


I can't blame the mission president. If I were in a position of trust, I would try as hard as I can to convince athletes to go to the U. That's what fans do.



I noticed that the folks at the BYU boards are now rubbing their hands over the possibility that Chase will transfer too. Seems kinda embarrassing to them to be doing that, if you ask me.

Can't blame them either. This is how they get players. Their current best player came this way. 3 of their past 4 starting QBs came this way. Everyone should understand that the recruiting of a mission kid doesn't end until after he returns and plays. We should be doing more to have regular recruiting contact with missionaries like BYU does. We should also be regularly contacting any of their missionaries (or Stanford's missionaries, or Boise State's, etc) that we think we could turn. We should have local alumni involved like they do.

[Damage U]

So...anyone hear how lunch with Harvey went?

[kccougar]

So...anyone hear how lunch with Harvey went?

Fabulous.

[Damage U]

Did they have the grilled salmon or lemon chicken?

[U-Ute]

Did they have the grilled salmon or lemon chicken?

They watched Lady And The Tramp and shared a plate of spaghetti and meatballs.

[Rocker Ute]

I can't blame the mission president. If I were in a position of trust, I would try as hard as I can to convince athletes to go to the U. That's what fans do,


The only time me and my mission president talked about future plans was my final interview. (Good advice too: travel the world, get as much education as you can, don't get married too quick, when you find the person you want to marry go and do some hard things together - it is easy to be pleasant when you are going out to eat and sitting in the park.)

I would HOPE that a mission president would be interested in making a missionary have a mission free of distraction and as positive as possible, and not worry about whether your favorite football team would win. As hard as it may seem to believe, certain things should eclipse football.

[sancho]

The only time me and my mission president talked about future plans was my final interview. (Good advice too: travel the world, get as much education as you can, don't get married too quick, when you find the person you want to marry go and do some hard things together - it is easy to be pleasant when you are going out to eat and sitting in the park.)

That's true for me too. Our president would talk to us collectively sometimes about post mission life, education, marriage etc (all good advice), but it didn't really come up in personal interviews.



I would HOPE that a mission president would be interested in making a missionary have a mission free of distraction and as positive as possible, and not worry about whether your favorite football team would win. As hard as it may seem to believe, certain things should eclipse football.

I don't see these as mutually exclusive. I have an elder in my ward now who says he plays for ASU. I talk to him about moving up to the U all the time. I'm 90% joking around with him, and we have a good time together. He did mention being worried about ASU's party scene, and I told him not to worry about it.

It's not like this mission president thinks that BYU is a bad place for him but wants him to go anyway for football. The distraction of football is there whether the mission president likes it or not. He might as well address it and try to keep the kid focused on the reasons he's there. I hate the guy for tempting our kid to the dark side, but I hate him as a BYU fan and not as a mission president.

[LA Ute]

I wonder if some kind of typically soft directive will go out to MPs about this sort of activism? I wonder if it would have any impact? I wonder if the NCAA will come up with a Harvey Langi rule? i also wonder if this isn't just part of the unique rivalry landscape that we simply have to live with.

[U-Ute]

The only time me and my mission president talked about future plans was my final interview.

He obviously didn't check your 40 time before speaking to you.

[SoCalPat]

I wonder if some kind of typically soft directive will go out to MPs about this sort of activism? I wonder if it would have any impact? I wonder if the NCAA will come up with a Harvey Langi rule? i also wonder if this isn't just part of the unique rivalry landscape that we simply have to live with.

Your last sentence is gospel, but I'm not holding my breath for anything else you wrote to happen.

[BeehiveUte]

My MP exit interview talked about TDS. I just laughed and changed the subject.

[USS Utah]

The only time me and my mission president talked about future plans was my final interview. (Good advice too: travel the world, get as much education as you can, don't get married too quick, when you find the person you want to marry go and do some hard things together - it is easy to be pleasant when you are going out to eat and sitting in the park.)

The only thing my MP said was "don't be in a hurry to get married, but when you find the right girl, don't waste time."

Of course, my MP was a dyed in the wool Ute fan with season tickets on the 50 yard line.

[sharpone]

Has anyone heard how Whittingham's meeting with Langi went? At this point I'm assuming no news is bad news (from the Ute perspective). I'd like to see him stay red, that looks pretty dim from what I can tell.

[U-Ute]

Has anyone heard how Whittingham's meeting with Langi went? At this point I'm assuming no news is bad news (from the Ute perspective). I'd like to see him stay red, that looks pretty dim from what I can tell.

I haven't heard any stories of him attending classes at BYU on thursday, which is what the speculation was.

[UtahsMrSports]

The ute zone guys said they had an update on harvey. Who knows....

[UtahsMrSports]

Ok, according to piper, todays meeting was postponed to an unknown date. So yeah, speculate away....

[Applejack]

Ok, according to piper, todays meeting was postponed to an unknown date. So yeah, speculate away....

Not good. He is a goner.

[UtahsMrSports]

Not good. He is a goner.

How do you figure?? If he is set on the y, why cancel? Why not just get it out of the way?

[Applejack]

How do you figure?? If he is set on the y, why cancel? Why not just get it out of the way?

We're all just spitballing here, it could just be a scheduling conflict. But if he's (a) set on going to BYU, why meet with Whit? Just to man up? The kid is 21 (or something), he just wants this over with. The meeting likely will never happen.

If, on the other hand, he's (b) wavering on coming back to Utah, why not meet with Whit ASAP, before BYU sends another religious goon to tamper with the fine young man?

[sancho]

We're all just spitballing here, it could just be a scheduling conflict. But if he's (a) set on going to BYU, why meet with Whit? Just to man up? The kid is 21 (or something), he just wants this over with. The meeting likely will never happen.

If, on the other hand, he's (b) wavering on coming back to Utah, why not meet with Whit ASAP, before BYU sends another religious goon to tamper with the fine young man?

I agree. If he were wavering, he would want to talk with Coach Whittingham ASAP. I think he would rather not face his old coach and explain.

[concerned]

I agree. If he were wavering, he would want to talk with Coach Whittingham ASAP. I think he would rather not face his old coach and explain.


I thought I read it was postponed b/c Whit's schedule changed and he did not make it back from Hawaii on time. If Langi wants a release, doesn't he have to ask for it? He can go to the Y without asking, but he cant get a schollie can he? That is a reason to talk to KW regardless.

[Rocker Ute]

We're all just spitballing here, it could just be a scheduling conflict. But if he's (a) set on going to BYU, why meet with Whit? Just to man up? The kid is 21 (or something), he just wants this over with. The meeting likely will never happen.

If, on the other hand, he's (b) wavering on coming back to Utah, why not meet with Whit ASAP, before BYU sends another religious goon to tamper with the fine young man?

As I understand it, religious goonery is the only non-GA position in the church that pays anything.

[Applejack]

As I understand it, religious goonery is the only non-GA position in the church that pays anything.

Goons do not receive compensation. Goonery is its own reward.

[LA Ute]

Harvey's a kid. He won't be a game changer for us or for BYU. I wish him well except in games in which Utah will benefit from him playing poorly.

[sancho]

He won't be a game changer for us or for BYU.

He might be. No way to know that yet. I assume our coaches want him to stay.

You are a better person than me. If he leaves, I hope he is unsuccessful on the field no matter who he plays. What's bad for BYU football is good for Utah football.

[SoCalPat]

Harvey's a kid. He won't be a game changer for us or for BYU. I wish him well except in games in which Utah will benefit from him playing poorly.

This is a pet peeve of mine, people referring to grown adult men as kids. It runs rampant among sports fan boy apologists, usually to defend immature indiscretions for which they've been publicly busted. I've never heard it use to describe someone who just returned from a mission; in fact, given what a mission is supposed to accomplish, it borders on insulting. So when Langi decides on BYU, I'm blaming L.A. for it all.

:p

[SoCalPat]

He might be. No way to know that yet. I assume our coaches want him to stay.

You are a better person than me. If he leaves, I hope he is unsuccessful on the field no matter who he plays. What's bad for BYU football is good for Utah football.

This. If anything, Kyle needs to be able to play the karma card going forward. Heaven knows MPs everywhere are dealing from the bottom of the deck when it comes to advising one on attending the U. after a mission.

[Senioritis]

I know nothing, but I'd be shocked if Langi isn't gone. It's over. Sounds like it will be super fun and super duper uplifting for him all the time.

Best of luck to him during his three years of EFY!

[LA Ute]

He might be. No way to know that yet. I assume our coaches want him to stay.

You are a better person than me. If he leaves, I hope he is unsuccessful on the field no matter who he plays. What's bad for BYU football is good for Utah football.

Your final sentence is correct, but I can't quite go where you are, for the reasons below in my response to SCP.


This is a pet peeve of mine, people referring to grown adult men as kids. It runs rampant among sports fan boy apologists, usually to defend immature indiscretions for which they've been publicly busted. I've never heard it use to describe someone who just returned from a mission; in fact, given what a mission is supposed to accomplish, it borders on insulting. So when Langi decides on BYU, I'm blaming L.A. for it all.

:p

The most important reason I call him a kid is that I am OLD. Thus more and more people are kids to me. Chronologically, every player on the Utah team could be my son.

Now, some RMs are very mature when they step off the plane. Some (maybe most) are still basically young doofuses about many aspects of life. I certainly was. It's one reason why MPs (and other adults the RMs admire) can have disproportionate influence in their lives. It's also a reason why matters of personal preference (like where to go to college) are often seen as matters or principle -- which they are not, IMO. Harvey's statements as reported by Uncle Vai strike me as those of a pretty immature RM. Not a knock on him; he's got lots of company in being that way -- including me. So Harvey's a kid to me.

But SCP, your points are well-taken. You're a smart kid. :D

[Diehard Ute]

In my line of work it's fairly obvious to see the differences between someone who starts at 21 and someone who starts at 30.

Now I don't think we should make excuses for adults who make mistakes, but I certainly don't think anyone under 25 is really ready for a lot that we throw at them.

Research shows the brain doesn't fully develop until 25 on average. I don't think most people gain any real life experience until their late 20's

I also would venture that serving a mission could help, but doesn't automatically help. A lot depends on the person and where they go.

[sancho]

It's also a reason why matters of personal preference (like where to go to college) are often seen as matters or principle -- which they are not

In my experience with 17-18 year old kids (and my memory of being that age), they are certain they know what college is going to be like. They are informed by TV, movies, blurbs they read in the US News rankings, stories from siblings, stories from friends, stories from mission presidents, etc. They really believe that 100% of everything that goes on at ASU is a drunken party. They really do think that every student at Smith is a lesbian. They could never go to Berkeley because the campus is far too liberal. You can't get a good education at a state school. If you don't go to an ivy, you will never be successful. At our age and with our experience, we know the utter ridiculousness of these statements. But they are convinced that they know and will not be told otherwise. So many of the kids I know who went to BYU have admitted to me later that they were scared to go anywhere else but that they now see how they would have been fine at UW, LSU, Wisconsin, or Boulder.

In Harvey's case, however, he has already been a student for a year. He has less of an excuse.

[UtahsMrSports]

I emailed a scout.com person and was told that the utes have a twenty percent shot at best of keeping langi.

[Scorcho]

I emailed a scout.com person and was told that the utes have a twenty percent shot at best of keeping langi.

the longer it drags out, the less likely I think he will remain a Ute. Time to turn the page.

I do think he owes it to meet face to face with Whitt (maybe he already has). I hope he follows through with that.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

the longer it drags out, the less likely I think he will remain a Ute. Time to turn the page.

I do think he owes it to meet face to face with Whitt (maybe he already has). I hope he follows through with that.

I guess I disagree. The more time he's away from his mission and begins to normalize, the more he's around family and friends, the more he remembers that it's possible to live your standards outside the bubble.

I remember when my best friend got he from his mission. He'd been home for about a week when I broke out some new U2 for him to check out. He stopped me half away through and said, "This is a little heavy." It wasn't nine months before his girlfriend was giving h blow jobs in his basement-which, of course, would never have happened had he gone to the Y because apartments don't have basements.

In retrospect, I'm not really sure what position my post supports. Carry on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DrumNFeather]

The ESPN guys cast their Pac 12 ballots: http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/74354/our-pac-12-media-poll-ballots

Expectations could not be lower for our Utes...here's hoping we surprise some folks.

[DrumNFeather]

It also looks like we are loading up on slot receivers: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsutahsports/58197704-59/utes-beach-cooperwood-field.html.csp

We definitely need more quick hitting type stuff to help this offense keep the chains moving. Hopefully one or all of these guys help.

[Applejack]

The ESPN guys cast their Pac 12 ballots: http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/74354/our-pac-12-media-poll-ballots

Expectations could not be lower for our Utes...here's hoping we surprise some folks.

Yikes! Two of the four pick Utah last in the South. :finger: Colorado is in the South!

[concerned]

Yikes! Two of the four pick Utah last in the South. :finger: Colorado is in the South!


If we finish last, the program really will be in a death spiral.

[sancho]

Yikes! Two of the four pick Utah last in the South. :finger: Colorado is in the South!

I'm not sure what would make anyone pick CU anything but last. They lost their conference games by an average of 30 points last season, and they lost Richardson to the NFL. So they either really believe in Coach MacIntyre, they really don't believe in Utah, or some combo of the two.

[Applejack]

I'm not sure what would make anyone pick CU anything but last. They lost their conference games by an average of 30 points last season, and they lost Richardson to the NFL. So they either really believe in Coach MacIntyre, they really don't believe in Utah, or some combo of the two.

I think it's about us (isn't it always?). We were really bad in the Pac last year and we lost the heart of our defense to the NFL/linebacker injuries.

[sancho]

We were really bad in the Pac

Were we really bad? We finished 2-7, which is really bad. But we were a much tougher out than CU, beating Stanford and scaring everyone else except USC and Oregon.

[DrumNFeather]

Were we really bad? We finished 2-7, which is really bad. But we were a much tougher out than CU, beating Stanford and scaring everyone else except USC and Oregon.

Our first two seasons we started 0-4 in conference play and last year we were well on our way before beating Stanford at 0-2. They've gotta figure out a way around that.

We're definitely a tough out, which I think makes things more frustrating to see such awful records. On the other hand, we were a sleeper in the South last year in many preseason publications and then ended up sh*tting the bed, so perhaps this is all deserved.

[sancho]

On the other hand, we were a sleeper in the South last year in many preseason publications

Wasn't it two years ago that we were the trendy sleeper pick?

[concerned]

Wasn't it two years ago that we were the trendy sleeper pick?

three. Before Mora, RichRod or Graham.

[sancho]

three. Before Mora, RichRod or Graham.

I thought it came after our first Pac-12 season and Sun Bowl victory. People were high on John White, and Wynn was going to be back.

[DrumNFeather]

Wasn't it two years ago that we were the trendy sleeper pick?

You might be right...all these crummy seasons are blending together for me. :)

[sancho]

You might be right...all these crummy seasons are blending together for me. :)

Well, we only have 3 years of Pac-12 history. Out kids are really gonna have a hard time picking years apart. "I remember the Rose Bowl in 2024, but all the other years are a blur."

2011: 4-5 in conference after 0-4 start. Wynn goes down, Hays wins Sun Bowl. Has everyone pumped for 2012.

2012: 3-6 in conference after 0-4 start. Wynn goes down. Hays/Wilson split time and don't win Sun Bowl. No one is predicting big things in 2013.

2013: 2-7 in conference (I see a trend) after 0-2 start. Wilson goes down (another trend). Schulz replaces. No one predicts big things in 2014, and recruits start getting jumpy.

[U-Ute]

Well, we only have 3 years of Pac-12 history. Out kids are really gonna have a hard time picking years apart. "I remember the Rose Bowl in 2024, but all the other years are a blur."

2011: 4-5 in conference after 0-4 start. Wynn goes down, Hays wins Sun Bowl. Has everyone pumped for 2012.

2012: 3-6 in conference after 0-4 start. Wynn goes down. Hays/Wilson split time and don't win Sun Bowl. No one is predicting big things in 2013.

2013: 2-7 in conference (I see a trend) after 0-2 start. Wilson goes down (another trend). Schulz replaces. No one predicts big things in 2014, and recruits start getting jumpy.

I look at it is we are due!

:rockon:

[DrumNFeather]

From the Pac 12 blog...key questions to ask (I got a good chuckle out of the last one):




Utah Utes (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/utah/utah-utes)
What will be asked:

Explain how your quarterback situation sets up withTravis Wilson (http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/531051/travis-wilson) and Kendal Thompson and how each fits in new coordinator Dave Christensen's offense?

What should be asked: Have Utah fans underestimated how difficult it would be to move up from the Mountain West to the Pac-12?

Whimsical interlude: You've had six offensive coordinators in six years (http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/67172/whittinghams-six-coordinator-itch). Please match each with one of Snow White's seven dwarfs, assuming that this stupid question automatically makes you Grumpy

[UtahsMrSports]

Im likely the last guy on the Harvey Langi bandwagon, but im jumping off. Reports are saying he cancelled the face to face with whit and just called him. Adios, young coward.

[sharpone]

What should be asked: Have Utah fans underestimated how difficult it would be to move up from the Mountain West to the Pac-12?
[/FONT][/COLOR]

This keeps coming up year after year and it bugs me. I think maybe these media types ought to start showing some evidence of this claim. I've not seen comments from or met any Utah fans that thought we would come in and take the PAC12 by storm. It was the media, not the fans, that voted Utah to finish #2 in the south in 2012. It's now year 4, and by now I think we get it - the PAC12 is hard.

Unfortunately the only way to stop this from coming up is to start winning. Holding out hope that Whitt can turn that corner this year, it seemed like they were so close last year.

[sancho]

This keeps coming up year after year and it bugs me. I think maybe these media types ought to start showing some evidence of this claim. I've not seen comments from or met any Utah fans that thought we would come in and take the PAC12 by storm. It was the media, not the fans, that voted Utah to finish #2 in the south in 2012. It's now year 4, and by now I think we get it - the PAC12 is hard.

Unfortunately the only way to stop this from coming up is to start winning. Holding out hope that Whitt can turn that corner this year, it seemed like they were so close last year.

Plus, the Pac-12 we entered in 2011 was far better than the Pac-12 of 2000-2010, when the conference really was the Pac-1 in a lot of ways. We had many teams in that decade that would have fared really well in the Pac-10. ASU, Zona, WSU, OSU, UCLA, UW, Oregon, and Stanford are all quite a bit better now than they were in that decade. Cal is the only team that is much worse.

So, yeah, I had higher hopes for the Pac-12. I hoped we might make some noise early on. That was not an unreasonable hope based on where the conference was. But the hopes were dashed by horrible luck with injuries and by the fact that so many teams made such big leaps all at once.

[DrumNFeather]

This keeps coming up year after year and it bugs me. I think maybe these media types ought to start showing some evidence of this claim. I've not seen comments from or met any Utah fans that thought we would come in and take the PAC12 by storm. It was the media, not the fans, that voted Utah to finish #2 in the south in 2012. It's now year 4, and by now I think we get it - the PAC12 is hard.

Unfortunately the only way to stop this from coming up is to start winning. Holding out hope that Whitt can turn that corner this year, it seemed like they were so close last year.

It seems like it is one of the things that serves to justify not including the Non-BCSers now. They look and say "look at Utah and TCU and how they are struggling...no need to allow for a seat at the BCS table for the little guy because it is evident that they can't compete week in and week out."

Last year was maddening because you have three losses in conference by a touchdown our less, and the team ultimately misses out on a bowl game by getting it handed to them in Pullman.

But I agree...we know it is hard, and that excuse only lasts for so long without showing actual improvement in the win column.

The loss that looms the largest in the last three years is still that loss in year one to CU. Even after back to back 5-7 seasons, if Whit takes them to the inaugural Pac 12 title game, his seat isn't even warm this year, IMO.

[SoCalPat]

It seems like it is one of the things that serves to justify not including the Non-BCSers now. They look and say "look at Utah and TCU and how they are struggling...no need to allow for a seat at the BCS table for the little guy because it is evident that they can't compete week in and week out."

Last year was maddening because you have three losses in conference by a touchdown our less, and the team ultimately misses out on a bowl game by getting it handed to them in Pullman.

But I agree...we know it is hard, and that excuse only lasts for so long without showing actual improvement in the win column.

The loss that looms the largest in the last three years is still that loss in year one to CU. Even after back to back 5-7 seasons, if Whit takes them to the inaugural Pac 12 title game, his seat isn't even warm this year, IMO.

It's still warm because everyone knows we would've gotten to that title game by default, ie, USC being ineligible.

I'd say we would had to have won the P-12 title that year for Whit to still be safe after consecutive 5-7 seasons.

[LA Ute]

I have such mixed emotions about KW. I like him very much as a person and am grateful for his great successes - especially 2008. But I am also kinda mad at him for needlessly (IMO) making such a hash of the offense and for his "friends and family" approach to hiring. I hope he pulls his job out of the fire but it will be no one's fault but his own if he doesn't.

[sancho]

I have such mixed emotions about KW. I like him very much as a person and am grateful for his great successes - especially 2008. But I am also kinda mad at him for needlessly (IMO) making such a hash of the offense and for his "friends and family" approach to hiring. I hope he pulls his job out of the fire but it will be no one's fault but his own if he doesn't.

Don't join that mob.

Whittingham has so far made just one decision that was clearly bad when it was made - the co-coordinator experiment. All the other decisions were either obvious (Chow, Erickson, Christensen) or at least intriguing (Johnson, Shaw).

The ironic twist is that the easiest good decision - to hire Chow - is the single biggest contributor to the offensive hash you reference. That's where we lost our identity.

The rest of the hash came from an historic run of bad luck with QB injuries and transfers.

I'm not sure what's wrong with a coach hiring people he knows and trusts. Isn't that how most coaches work? Isn't that why Nick Saban - college football's #1 coach - just hired Lane Kiffin even though media and fans think Kiffin is an idiot? It's not like Whittingham has hired uncles and cousins who were unqualified. Christensen is definitely qualified. So is ARod. Shaw was a good player who became a law-talker. That sounds like a great combo for a coach.

You attorneys have to remember that in the real world, sometimes bad things happen without anyone being at fault.

[sancho]

And here's the media poll:

http://pac-12.com/article/2014/07/22/oregon-picked-win-pac-12-title-preseason-media-poll?cid=social_20140723_28315056

Utah picked 5th in south.

[DrumNFeather]

With today being the Utah portion of the P 12 Media Day. What is the one burning question you would want to know from KW heading into this season?

[LA Ute]

Don't join that mob.

Whittingham has so far made just one decision that was clearly bad when it was made - the co-coordinator experiment. All the other decisions were either obvious (Chow, Erickson, Christensen) or at least intriguing (Johnson, Shaw).

The ironic twist is that the easiest good decision - to hire Chow - is the single biggest contributor to the offensive hash you reference. That's where we lost our identity.

The rest of the hash came from an historic run of bad luck with QB injuries and transfers.

I'm not sure what's wrong with a coach hiring people he knows and trusts. Isn't that how most coaches work? Isn't that why Nick Saban - college football's #1 coach - just hired Lane Kiffin even though media and fans think Kiffin is an idiot? It's not like Whittingham has hired uncles and cousins who were unqualified. Christensen is definitely qualified. So is ARod. Shaw was a good player who became a law-talker. That sounds like a great combo for a coach.

You attorneys have to remember that in the real world, sometimes bad things happen without anyone being at fault.

Most of your points are fair enough except the idea that the Shaw and Wilson Johnson hires were "interesting." They certainly were, but so are train wrecks. Those are both crazy-gamble hires that raise worrisome questions about the guy who made them.

Bottom line: I'd be thrilled to be eating crow in 6 months.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Most of your points are fair enough except the idea that the Shaw and Wilson Johnson hires were "interesting." They certainly were, but so are train wrecks. Those are both crazy-gamble hires that raise worrisome questions about the guy who made them.

Bottom line: I'd be thrilled to be eating crow in 6 months.

Better start planning the menu right now

[DrumNFeather]

Here's a link to the videos of KW and the player interviews: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865607395/Utah-football-Pac-12-Football-Media-Day-Central.html

KW mentioned Booker by name as a guy that could have a big impact this year and he also noted when asked about Brian Blechen that he is 100% back and has his weight down. Hopefully that means he'll be a productive member of the football team this year.

[Diehard Ute]

Most of your points are fair enough except the idea that the Shaw and Wilson hires were "interesting." They certainly were, but so are train wrecks. Those are both crazy-gamble hires that raise worrisome questions about the guy who made them.

Bottom line: I'd be thrilled to be eating crow in 6 months.

I think many coaching hires are crazy gambles. So much of coaching is how that coach fits in with the other coaches the program etc.

I think the Shaw hire is looking ok these days. I don't know if anyone saw his interview with Dave Fox this week, but it was good. One of the things he touched on was depth, and how this season they finally feel like they have some depth in the secondary.

If anything I think that's the biggest issue with the program....we had little high quality depth when we made the conference jump. In our old league our depth was sufficient....but after the jump it wasn't and as we all know, that's a 3-5 year fix at best IMO.

[sancho]

Those are both crazy-gamble hires that raise worrisome questions about the guy who made them.

No. Shah always made sense and still does. BJ was a gamble, but it was not crazy at all. Reasonable fans were excited to see it. There were some really mad fans who would have been unhappy with anyone short of Chip Kelley. The media - local and national - liked the hire. Very few people thought Whittingham was crazy over it.


Bottom line: I'd be thrilled to be eating crow in 6 months.

We all want Utah to succeed, but the next 6 months will not tell us any more than we already know about who Kyle Whittingham is. We've been with him long enough to know what we have. If he is fired someday, it won't be because he's a poor coach.

[SoCalPat]

No. Shah always made sense and still does. BJ was a gamble, but it was not crazy at all. Reasonable fans were excited to see it. There were some really mad fans who would have been unhappy with anyone short of Chip Kelley. The media - local and national - liked the hire. Very few people thought Whittingham was crazy over it.



We all want Utah to succeed, but the next 6 months will not tell us any more than we already know about who Kyle Whittingham is. We've been with him long enough to know what we have. If he is fired someday, it won't be because he's a poor coach.

Reasonable fans in BJ's instance were myopic fans who justify everything Kyle does with the response, "He knows more about football than you do, so I'm fine with the move." The reasonable fans whose voices and .02 I trust were very leery and skeptical of the move. I didn't like the move because if it didn't work, the backlash (fairly) would be unleashed on a former Ute great. The end result was disastrous -- he should have been getting his feet wet elsewhere with a move back to Utah in his future, not vice-versa.

Hiring Shah made sense 15 years ago, not after he's been out of the game for 15 years.

If Kyle is fired after this season, it will be in large part due to the brain dead coaching hires he's made over the past 5 years. Show me a coach who has pulled as many out-of-left-field hires as Kyle has.

[sancho]

Show me a coach who has pulled as many out-of-left-field hires as Kyle has.

I don't follow assistant coaches closely enough, but I'm guessing it would not be hard to find other coaches who have pulled 1-2 "out-of-left-field" hires.

Stop treating the offensive coordinator position like it's rocket science. Johnson didn't need to get his feet wet. He was fine. He'd still be our coordinator (and a beloved coordinator at that) if not for multiple QB/WR/TE injuries.

Someone else just reminded me that perception is reality. That's true in BJ's case. Nevermind that he was doing fine with play calling and recruiting. The narrative is that we went 5-7 twice on his watch, so he must not have been ready. The fact that we'd have also gone 5-7 with Jim Harbaugh doesn't matter.

[SoCalPat]

I don't follow assistant coaches closely enough, but I'm guessing it would not be hard to find other coaches who have pulled 1-2 "out-of-left-field" hires.

Stop treating the offensive coordinator position like its rocket science. Johnson didn't need to get his feet wet. He was fine. He'd still be our coordinator (and a beloved coordinator at that) if not for multiple QB/WR/TE injuries.

Someone else just reminded me that perception is reality. That's true in BJ's case. Nevermind that he was doing fine with play calling and recruiting. The narrative is that we went 5-7 twice on his watch, so he must not have been ready. The fact that we'd have also gone 5-7 with Jim Harbaugh doesn't matter.

Norm Chow going 8-5 with Jon Hays as his starting QB says all I need to know about how valuable experience is with your coordinators.

Brian was so bad in his first year as OC, we brought Dennis Erickson in out of retirement. This is how bad the offense was under Brian -- with a bowl berth on the line in 2013, we play Arizona at home. The Wildcats had given up 49, 54 and 66 points in their other three league road games. They would give up 48 against Nevada, and nearly 40 PPG against FBS teams. And Utah scores 24, with offensive personnel that were either healthy and/or established. There is no evidence to suggest Brian "was fine" as OC. None. Other teams have injuries and keep on rolling, or at least don't suffer indignities such as back-to-back losing seasons like Utah experienced for the first time in nearly a quarter century.

I'll throw another bad hire on the KW woodpile -- Dan Finn.

[sancho]

Norm Chow going 8-5 with Jon Hays as his starting QB says all I need to know about how valuable experience is with your coordinators.

There is no way to know what Chow would have done in 2012 or 2013. His experience doesn't seem to be moving mountains in Hawaii. We also have no way of knowing what BJ would have done with a few breaks.


with a bowl berth on the line in 2013, we play Arizona at home

I'm not gonna go look up how many points people scored on CU in 2011, but I know we only scored 14 in that game.


Other teams have injuries and keep on rolling

I hear this a lot, but I don't think it's true. Injuries, especially to the QB, often have a huge effect on team performance.

[LA Ute]

Hiring Shah made sense 15 years ago, not after he's been out of the game for 15 years.

Yes. That specific gamble looks like it might - might! - be working out, but IMO it is not credible to say it was anything but a huge gamble to hire a guy who had never coached in D-1, let alone in the PAC-12, and who had been out of football (playing or coaching) for 10+ years, to be the position coach for a PAC-12 program. Now, it does appear that Kyle is learning to make more experience-based and performance-based hires, like Christensen and the new OL coach. I am really hoping the light went on in time.

[sancho]

Yes. That specific gamble looks like it might - might! - be working out, but IMO it is not credible to say it was anything but a huge gamble to hire a guy who had never coached in D-1, let alone in the PAC-12, and who had been out of football (playing or coaching) for 10+ years, to be the position coach for a PAC-12 program. Now, it does appear that Kyle is learning to make more experience-based and performance-based hires, like Christensen and the new OL coach. I am really hoping the light went on in time.

The most important duty (by far) of an assistant coach in college football is recruiting. My undestanding is that Coach Whittingham thought Shah would make a good recruiter. I guess we'll have to see if that's true.

If LA Ute were an amazing recruiter, he would be a good hire, even if he had never watched a game of football in his life.

[LA Ute]

Turning back to the all-consuming Harvey Langi drama, it looks like he's looking at Stanford and USC now:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DougKimmelScout/status/491988086272700416

This is getting even weirder. At this point, if I were Whit I'd just say good luck to Harvey and move on. I care even less than before about what the guy decides to do.

[sancho]

This is getting weirder. At this point, if I were Whit I'd just say good luck to Harvey and move on.

This is not him being weird. This is him being smart. He has a chance to pick a program now. Might as well shop around before making what will be a huge decision for him. Frankly, after all the fan/media attention, it might be a good idea for him to get out of state.

Whitt just has to be patient and see what happens. Clearly, we'd like to have him, but our plans aren't dependent on it.

[sancho]

The most important duty (by far) of an assistant coach in college football is recruiting. My undestanding is that Coach Whittingham thought Shah would make a good recruiter. I guess we'll have to see if that's true.

If LA Ute were an amazing recruiter, he would be a good hire, even if he had never watched a game of football in his life.

Thinking about this, I agree with you. To grab someone based on charisma alone is a big gamble, since recruiting is also about connections and relationships.

[kccougar]

Turning back to the all-consuming Harvey Langi drama, it looks like he's looking at Stanford and USC now:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DougKimmelScout/status/491988086272700416

This is getting even weirder. At this point, if I were Whit I'd just say good luck to Harvey and move on. I care even less than before about what the guy decides to do.

It's not very weird. Vai's article made it clear that Harvey's Mom would prefer he play at Stanford. Sometimes you have to jump through some hoops to appease your mother before you do what you want to do.

[USS Utah]

Norm Chow going 8-5 with Jon Hays as his starting QB says all I need to know about how valuable experience is with your coordinators.

Chow had ahealthy John White IV, Shawn Asiata at fullback and a better O-line.

[LA Ute]

It's not very weird. Vai's article made it clear that Harvey's Mom would prefer he play at Stanford. Sometimes you have to jump through some hoops to appease your mother before you do what you want to do.

kc, you know I like you, but what are you trying to say? Neener-neener, Langi's mom wants him to play at Stanford even more than at Utah? Come on, man. Anyone who follows the thread of what Harvey has reportedly said sees odd thought processes here. He wants a more LDS-spiritual environment, so he wants BYU. OK, makes sense. Now he is considering Stanford or USC? He's going to find less of that environment there than at the U.

[kccougar]

kc, you know I like you, but what are you trying to say? Neener-neener, Langi's mom wants him to play at Stanford even more than at Utah? Come on, man. Anyone who follows the thread of what Harvey has reportedly said sees odd thought processes here. He wants a more LDS-spiritual environment, so he wants BYU. OK, makes sense. Now he is considering Stanford or USC? He's going to find less of that environment there than at the U.

Not intended to be neener-neener at all. The Utefans.net contingent that posts here try to paint me as some Jason Franchuck dude, but I try not to troll (much) here. Just providing some context to the rumors today that Harvey was visiting other P12 schools. In Vai's article announcing Harvey's intention to transfer away from Utah, Vai included quotes from Harvey's mother saying that if he wasn't going to be at Utah, she would prefer he be at Stanford instead of BYU. With that in mind, it makes sense that Harvey was at least giving some consideration to Stanford or other schools before officially deciding on BYU.

It's all academic in any event - Harvey's mother is now quoted as saying that Harvey will be at BYU when fall camp starts.

[SoCalPat]

Chow had ahealthy John White IV, Shawn Asiata at fullback and a better O-line.

And no one pegged Asiata for being a major contributor on offense before the season started. What Chow did with Asiata speaks to the experience you like to see with coordinators. Chow played chess with opposing defenses; Brian was trying to play checkers.

Better O-line? Any O-line with Tim Davis was going to be better than one coached by Dan Finn, another one of Kyle's questionable hires.

[sancho]

Chow played chess with opposing defenses

You and I have very different memories of 2011.

[Solon]

Norm Chow going 8-5 with Jon Hays as his starting QB says all I need to know about how valuable experience is with your coordinators.


This made me re-think that old adage, "You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit." That was a great job by Chow.

IMO, this season hinges completely on Wilson's health.
Whit hasn't demonstrated himself to be the best at management, but he's a great motivator. I think we'll see some exciting football this fall.

[USS Utah]

Not intended to be neener-neener at all. The Utefans.net contingent that posts here try to paint me as some Jason Franchuck dude, but I try not to troll (much) here. Just providing some context to the rumors today that Harvey was visiting other P12 schools. In Vai's article announcing Harvey's intention to transfer away from Utah, Vai included quotes from Harvey's mother saying that if he wasn't going to be at Utah, she would prefer he be at Stanford instead of BYU. With that in mind, it makes sense that Harvey was at least giving some consideration to Stanford or other schools before officially deciding on BYU.

It's all academic in any event - Harvey's mother is now quoted as saying that Harvey will be at BYU when fall camp starts.

No, really, who are you?

[USS Utah]

And no one pegged Asiata for being a major contributor on offense before the season started. What Chow did with Asiata speaks to the experience you like to see with coordinators. Chow played chess with opposing defenses; Brian was trying to play checkers.

Better O-line? Any O-line with Tim Davis was going to be better than one coached by Dan Finn, another one of Kyle's questionable hires.

Was there anyone who could have filled Asiata's shoes? If not, it would appear that Brian had checkers instead of chess pieces.

Obviously, Brian didn't have Chow's experience, but who did?

[U-Ute]

Chow played chess with opposing defenses; Brian was trying to play checkers.

Sadly, the other team was playing football.

[SoCalPat]

You and I have very different memories of 2011.


"They brought a bunch of new stuff we hadn't really seen, that we hadn't schemed up," linebacker Sean Westgate said. "Things that aren't hard to scheme up but it takes some communication. We weren't successful at that.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/yards-326771-bruins-utah.html

The entire second half of the season was like that. After the Cal game, our offense was JW4 running behind Asiata and play-action passing, emphasizing the vertical game. But we did it out of so many different formations, teams really couldn't prepare for it like they would have preferred.

[sancho]

"They brought a bunch of new stuff we hadn't really seen, that we hadn't schemed up," linebacker Sean Westgate said. "Things that aren't hard to scheme up but it takes some communication. We weren't successful at that.

At first, I thought the quote must be from a Stanford linebacker last year.



The entire second half of the season was like that.

Entirely coincidental that the 2nd half of the season consisted of Wazzu, CU, OSU, Arizona, and dead-in-the-water-Neuheisel UCLA.

[NorthwestUteFan]

At first, I thought the quote must be from a Stanford linebacker last year.
.

Go watch the game again. Stanford had the offense completely figured out by the end of the first half. The only reason Stanford didn't complete the comeback victory is because David Shaw inexplicably went away from his power game at the end of the game.

Utah's D came up big time in the second half and made up for an ineffective Offense.

In fact, if somebody picks up the blitzing Jacoby Hale for half a second, then the pass on 4th down connects for a TD rather than sailing out of the endzone, and Utah loses the game.

[sancho]

Go watch the game again.

We had 400+ yards against one of the best defenses in the nation. Only two teams scored more than our 27 vs Stanford all year (ASU and UW each got 28). That was an offensive triumph, no matter which half it came in. I can understand if people want to buy into the "BJ was a bad choice" thing, but at least give him credit where it's due.



The only reason Stanford didn't complete the comeback victory is because David Shaw inexplicably went away from his power game at the end of the game.


You are regurgitating a popular media take on the game, but fact is Utah outplayed Stanford over 60 minutes. We are talking about one play, and Shaw opted for a pass instead of a run. It wasn't inexplicable. Utah had a great run defense and only an average pass defense. Ty Montgomery had 130 receiving yards. Nothing wrong with Shaw's play calling at the end of the game.

[Hot Lunch]

Go watch the game again. Stanford had the offense completely figured out by the end of the first half. The only reason Stanford didn't complete the comeback victory is because David Shaw inexplicably went away from his power game at the end of the game.

Utah's D came up big time in the second half and made up for an ineffective Offense.

In fact, if somebody picks up the blitzing Jacoby Hale for half a second, then the pass on 4th down connects for a TD rather than sailing out of the endzone, and Utah loses the game.

we are really going to miss Jacoby Hale. I wish that kid could have stayed healthy.

[sancho]

we are really going to miss Jacoby Hale. I wish that kid could have stayed healthy.

Now there's something we can all agree with, you peacemaker.

[LA Ute]

Go watch the game again. Stanford had the offense completely figured out by the end of the first half. The only reason Stanford didn't complete the comeback victory is because David Shaw inexplicably went away from his power game at the end of the game.

Utah's D came up big time in the second half and made up for an ineffective Offense.

In fact, if somebody picks up the blitzing Jacoby Hale for half a second, then the pass on 4th down connects for a TD rather than sailing out of the endzone, and Utah loses the game.

Not to nitpick but that was Jared Norris, if you're talking about the final play.

[sancho]

Not to nitpick but that was Jared Norris, if you're talking about the final play.

Way to break up the Jacoby love fest. Now I'm gonna start bickering again.

Hope bout a power ranking of top 5 offensive showings for the Utes since joining the Pac-12, taking opponent into account? I can't think of many. We whupped Cal and WSU once. Stanford. The 54-10 game, but we were helped a lot by Heaps. The UCLA game. Sun Bowl? Oregon State loss? Man, it's slim pickin's.

[LA Ute]

Not intended to be neener-neener at all. The Utefans.net contingent that posts here try to paint me as some Jason Franchuck dude, but I try not to troll (much) here. Just providing some context to the rumors today that Harvey was visiting other P12 schools. In Vai's article announcing Harvey's intention to transfer away from Utah, Vai included quotes from Harvey's mother saying that if he wasn't going to be at Utah, she would prefer he be at Stanford instead of BYU. With that in mind, it makes sense that Harvey was at least giving some consideration to Stanford or other schools before officially deciding on BYU.

It's all academic in any event - Harvey's mother is now quoted as saying that Harvey will be at BYU when fall camp starts.

Well, OK then. ;)

[UtahsMrSports]

So harvey tells uncle vai that hes going to byu, then (per some reports) says enough to ute coaches to make them believe he will come back, sets up visits in Cal, and then goes with BYU? Someone on this thread nailed it when they said harvey was disingenuous. :)

[SoCalPat]

You are regurgitating a popular media take on the game, but fact is Utah outplayed Stanford over 60 minutes. We are talking about one play, and Shaw opted for a pass instead of a run. It wasn't inexplicable. Utah had a great run defense and only an average pass defense. Ty Montgomery had 130 receiving yards. Nothing wrong with Shaw's play calling at the end of the game.

You're right -- we did outplay Stanford for 60 minutes. Which makes the fact that Stanford had a chance to win at the end all the more of an indictment on the offense. We threw an interception in the red zone to start the second half, had to settle for a FG after having 1st and goal at the 3, and gained all of three yards after recovering a Stanford fumble before settling for another FG. Being very kind, we had a chance at 13 points; we got 6. Personally, I feel like we should have gotten 17 points out of those three drives. That would have made not getting a first down on our final three drives a little more easier to take.

[sancho]

You're right -- we did outplay Stanford for 60 minutes. Which makes the fact that Stanford had a chance to win at the end all the more of an indictment on the offense. We threw an interception in the red zone to start the second half, had to settle for a FG after having 1st and goal at the 3, and gained all of three yards after recovering a Stanford fumble before settling for another FG. Being very kind, we had a chance at 13 points; we got 6. Personally, I feel like we should have gotten 17 points out of those three drives. That would have made not getting a first down on our final three drives a little more easier to take.

We scored more and moved the ball better against the Stanford defense than pretty much anyone last year, including teams like asu, usc, Oregon, Notre dame, and wazzu. If that performance is an indictment against our offense, you have crossed the line into insane expectations.

Say what you like about Johnson's two years, that single game was an offensive masterpiece.

[UTEopia]

Say what you like about Johnson's two years, that single game was an offensive masterpiece.

Did I miss something. I'm pretty sure the DE was the OC last year and he was calling the plays.

[Solon]

So harvey tells uncle vai that hes going to byu, then (per some reports) says enough to ute coaches to make them believe he will come back, sets up visits in Cal, and then goes with BYU? Someone on this thread nailed it when they said harvey was disingenuous. :)

Weighing in on both conversations here:

1. If Harvey can handle Stanford's academics, he should go to Stanford. (Homage to Majerus here)
2. The big "what-if" game from 2013 for me is USC. Utes would have rolled if Kiffin had still been coaching (IMO).

[sancho]

Did I miss something. I'm pretty sure the DE was the OC last year and he was calling the plays.

I thought they were co-coordinators? If not, I take it all back.

[SoCalPat]

I thought they were co-coordinators? If not, I take it all back.

I take back what I said about the Stanford game. In my rush to defend my .02 on Brian being a lousy hire, I forgot that DE was calling most of the shots last year. There's probably a post on here that I've made about how much improved the offense was from 2012 to 2013.

[UtahsMrSports]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsbyusports/58219596-65/langi-byu-harvey-kimmel.html.csp

this just keeps getting better and better.

At this point, if I am Kyle Whittingham and he tells me he wants to come back, I say no. straight up. a player of his caliber is not worth even half of the drama.

[sancho]

At this point, if I am Kyle Whittingham and he tells me he wants to come back, I say no. straight up. a player of his caliber is not worth even half of the drama.

The drama doesn't cost us anything. Just give him time and encouragement and hope for the best. Drama is just part of the job with recruiting.

It's hard to think of him this way since he already played for us, but we really should think of him as a commit who is wavering just before signing day. We win some of those, and we lose some, but we don't quit on them for wavering.

Edit addition: sounds like Harvey is learning the important lesson to never trust the media.

[UtahsMrSports]

The drama doesn't cost us anything. Just give him time and encouragement and hope for the best. Drama is just part of the job with recruiting.

It's hard to think of him this way since he already played for us, but we really should think of him as a commit who is wavering just before signing day. We win some of those, and we lose some, but we don't quit on them for wavering.

Edit addition: sounds like Harvey is learning the important lesson to never trust the media.

There is a difference between "wavering" and not being straight forward with people. It appears Harvey is not straight forward with anyone. Blaming the media is a cop out. Doug Kimmel, Jay Drew, and the others are reputable reporters. I seriously doubt that any of them are just making stuff up.

I will say, it was a very, very poor choice (whoever made it, be it Harvey, Vai, or parents) to have Vai write that Des News article. Kid could have saved himself a world of trouble if he had just called Whitt, told him hed like to re-examine his commitment, and then figured it all out.

[Diehard Ute]

There is a difference between "wavering" and not being straight forward with people. It appears Harvey is not straight forward with anyone. Blaming the media is a cop out. Doug Kimmel, Jay Drew, and the others are reputable reporters. I seriously doubt that any of them are just making stuff up.

I will say, it was a very, very poor choice (whoever made it, be it Harvey, Vai, or parents) to have Vai write that Des News article. Kid could have saved himself a world of trouble if he had just called Whitt, told him hed like to re-examine his commitment, and then figured it all out.

While that may be, anyone who has worked in a job that's highly covered by the media can tell you things rarely are printed or reported as they occurred.

It's often not the reporter making it up, but rather taking statements and molding them to the tone of what they want to report

[UtahsMrSports]

While that may be, anyone who has worked in a job that's highly covered by the media can tell you things rarely are printed or reported as they occurred.

It's often not the reporter making it up, but rather taking statements and molding them to the tone of what they want to report

well sure. I absolutely get that. Its awfully tough to mold statements into "he is going to byu" and then "that is false. he is still looking". Somewhere along the lines, conflicting info was shared. At this point, they (vai, Harvey, parents, high school coaches, etc) would be wise to not make any comment until a decision is reached.

[Diehard Ute]

well sure. I absolutely get that. Its awfully tough to mold statements into "he is going to byu" and then "that is false. he is still looking". Somewhere along the lines, conflicting info was shared. At this point, they (vai, Harvey, parents, high school coaches, etc) would be wise to not make any comment until a decision is reached.

Not really. Take things out of context or only use part of the quote. Happens all the time.

[UtahsMrSports]

Not really. Take things out of context or only use part of the quote. Happens all the time.

ok........except that both of these were direct, verbatim quotes. so..........yeah.

[sancho]

ok........except that both of these were direct, verbatim quotes. so..........yeah.

He's just making a hard choice. Nothing disingenuous about it. He had pressure for months (years?) from a respected authority figure (and others) to do one thing. He has pressure from parents to do something else. He has pressure from cool friends and ex-teammates in SLC to go to the U and pressure from dirtbags all over Provo to do something else. He's got a weirdo coach drawing pictures of him dressed up like a son of Helaman and a normal coach giving him solid advice. He also has kccougar going through his garbage at night.

So it's not surprising at all to hear "he's going here, now he says he's going there."

[Diehard Ute]

ok........except that both of these were direct, verbatim quotes. so..........yeah.

I've seen people claim quotes were such....and known that wasn't true because I was there when they were given.

I don't know if the quotes are accurate or not, my point is you can never just believe a quote or statement that's presented by any media as true because it's reported.

[Applejack]

He's just making a hard choice. Nothing disingenuous about it. He had pressure for months (years?) from a respected authority figure (and others) to do one thing. He has pressure from parents to do something else. He has pressure from cool friends and ex-teammates in SLC to go to the U and pressure from dirtbags all over Provo to do something else. He's got a weirdo coach drawing pictures of him dressed up like a son of Helaman and a normal coach giving him solid advice. He also has kccougar going through his garbage at night.

So it's not surprising at all to hear "he's going here, now he says he's going there."

Agreed. He's being pulled in a lot of directions and he's quickly learning he can't please everyone. Hopefully the cool friends win out against the religious goons and cap-sleeve nazis.

[LA Ute]

I've seen people claim quotes were such....and known that wasn't true because I was there when they were given.

I don't know if the quotes are accurate or not, my point is you can never just believe a quote or statement that's presented by any media as true because it's reported.

Talking to the press is an art. There are some basic rules to follow that will keep you out of trouble but even if you do follow them there's no guarantee your statements will be reported accurately or fairly. It's no surprise that a 21 year-old, left on his own, gets chewed up by the news media beast.

[Solon]

I've seen people claim quotes were such....and known that wasn't true because I was there when they were given.

I don't know if the quotes are accurate or not, my point is you can never just believe a quote or statement that's presented by any media as true because it's reported.

I don't know anything about the Langi situation (and I'm past caring), but I will back up Diehard's overall assertion.
I have a good friend in the same line of work as Diehard. My friend has about a million stories where the reporter got it wrong. Oftentimes, it's immaterial details. Other times, the reporter clearly wanted to get it wrong. Either way, there is a lot of filtering that goes on (the historian in me weeps at how ephemeral is the notion of "fact").

[SoCalPat]

I don't know anything about the Langi situation (and I'm past caring), but I will back up Diehard's overall assertion.
I have a good friend in the same line of work as Diehard. My friend has about a million stories where the reporter got it wrong. Oftentimes, it's immaterial details. Other times, the reporter clearly wanted to get it wrong. Either way, there is a lot of filtering that goes on (the historian in me weeps at how ephemeral is the notion of "fact").

You have a lot of good takes on this board, but when you say this, you might as well say Kyle coaches to lose games. Reporters who want to get it wrong have already satisfied all absolute means for a plantiff to collect damages in a civil lawsuit. Unless I'm missing some advanced form of subtlety on your end, what you're describing is called actual malice or disregard for the truth.

Diehard's comments are cute too, but I cut him some slack because he's a cop and there are probably just as many people who are as wrong about his job as he is about the media's.

[UTEopia]

You have a lot of good takes on this board, but when you say this, you might as well say Kyle coaches to lose games. Reporters who want to get it wrong have already satisfied all absolute means for a plantiff to collect damages in a civil lawsuit. Unless I'm missing some advanced form of subtlety on your end, what you're describing is called actual malice or disregard for the truth.

Diehard's comments are cute too, but I cut him some slack because he's a cop and there are probably just as many people who are as wrong about his job as he is about the media's.

Most, not all, reporters (and I think it is generous to call Vai a member of the media or a reporter when what he essentially does is write puff pieces for the equivalent of a church-wide Ward Bulletin), have an agenda and seek quotes, select the quotes they use and organize the quotes in the way that best tells his/her story the way they want it told and not exactly the unbiased story.

[sancho]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0xr31XbSOU

[concerned]

Most, not all, reporters (and I think it is generous to call Vai a member of the media or a reporter when what he essentially does is write puff pieces for the equivalent of a church-wide Ward Bulletin), have an agenda and seek quotes, select the quotes they use and organize the quotes in the way that best tells his/her story the way they want it told and not exactly the unbiased story.

As a former reporter myself and a close relative of a local minor political figure, I think this is exactly true. It was amazing to me how many times the reporter would misquote my relative, or take a quote out of context, or make selective use of quotes in a story, and the errors would always be consistent along a political spectrum.

[SoCalPat]

Most, not all, reporters (and I think it is generous to call Vai a member of the media or a reporter when what he essentially does is write puff pieces for the equivalent of a church-wide Ward Bulletin), have an agenda and seek quotes, select the quotes they use and organize the quotes in the way that best tells his/her story the way they want it told and not exactly the unbiased story.

Perhaps the emptiest, most vapid criticism of the media. Every media member since Peter Zenger has had an agenda. You don't want agendas in your news, go find the U.S. news equivalent to Tass. As for the purposes of this board/forum, stick to releases from the SID. You won't find agendas there, but you won't be terribly informed, either.

[concerned]

Perhaps the emptiest, most vapid criticism of the media. Every media member since Peter Zenger has had an agenda. You don't want agendas in your news, go find the U.S. news equivalent to Tass. As for the purposes of this board/forum, stick to releases from the SID. You won't find agendas there, but you won't be terribly informed, either.

Well you ahve a dog in the hunt and you are too blind to see it. That likely makes you part of the problem.

[UtahsMrSports]

Most, not all, reporters (and I think it is generous to call Vai a member of the media or a reporter when what he essentially does is write puff pieces for the equivalent of a church-wide Ward Bulletin), have an agenda and seek quotes, select the quotes they use and organize the quotes in the way that best tells his/her story the way they want it told and not exactly the unbiased story.

Funny story: I was contacted by a trib reporter for a story some time ago for my opinion on an issue. I gave my honest opinion, listing the good and the bad of the issue. The story came out, and only the positive things I had said were included. He already had someone for the negative side. The quotes made me look kind of silly to be honest, taken alone.

I say that to emphasize that I understand what most people are saying here. Still, unless he is blatantly splicing words together, not sure how you could spin, or manipulate "Harvey is going to BYU."

[SoCalPat]

Well you ahve a dog in the hunt and you are too blind to see it. That likely makes you part of the problem.

Too blind to see it? Hell, I agreed with the OP. Reporters do have agendas. Fortunately for me in writing sports, mine was to make deadline and write clean copy. That wouldn't stop idiots from climbing out from their hole and making claims against me of favoritism for a certain team. That's their problem, not mine.

Everyone likes to play media critic and I get that, but if you could read some of the unpublished criticisms or hear some of the anonymous phone calls from other "critics," you'd be embarrassed to be aligned with them in any form. I've got a letter from a "BYU Fan" that was addressed to my predecessor at my last sports media job. One of these days I'll have find a way to get it online here. It's a total riot. It also symbolic of a lot of complaints media people receive. Ever read the comments section of a Monson column? It should be pretty simple why media folk don't take a lot of the public's criticisms seriously.

[SoCalPat]

Funny story: I was contacted by a trib reporter for a story some time ago for my opinion on an issue. I gave my honest opinion, listing the good and the bad of the issue. The story came out, and only the positive things I had said were included. He already had someone for the negative side. The quotes made me look kind of silly to be honest, taken alone.

I say that to emphasize that I understand what most people are saying here. Still, unless he is blatantly splicing words together, not sure how you could spin, or manipulate "Harvey is going to BYU."

Were you expecting the reporter to quote your entire exchange verbatim?

[UtahsMrSports]

Too blind to see it? Hell, I agreed with the OP. Reporters do have agendas. Fortunately for me in writing sports, mine was to make deadline and write clean copy. That wouldn't stop idiots from climbing out from their hole and making claims against me of favoritism for a certain team. That's their problem, not mine.

Everyone likes to play media critic and I get that, but if you could read some of the unpublished criticisms or hear some of the anonymous phone calls from other "critics," you'd be embarrassed to be aligned with them in any form. I've got a letter from a "BYU Fan" that was addressed to my predecessor at my last sports media job. One of these days I'll have find a way to get it online here. It's a total riot. It also symbolic of a lot of complaints media people receive. Ever read the comments section of a Monson column? It should be pretty simple why media folk don't take a lot of the public's criticisms seriously.

I am sure monson reads the comments and laughs. The comments he gets are exactly what he is hoping for.

[UtahsMrSports]

Were you expecting the reporter to quote your entire exchange verbatim?

I thought he would portray me as what I said I was......someone in the middle on the issue who saw good points on both sides.

[LA Ute]

Vai did Harvey a disservice, probably in a well-intentioned (but wrong-headed) way. A young man like Harvey has no idea about the difference between speaking on background or off the record, or about how to speak to the news media generally. He probably just had a long talk with Vai and Vai chose what to report.

Anyway, I am sick of the Langi drama. Good luck to Harvey, whatever he does, except in games against Utah, when I hope he plays miserably and costs his team the game.

[SoCalPat]

I thought he would portray me as what I said I was......someone in the middle on the issue who saw good points on both sides.

How you believe you're portrayed is a million miles from being a media problem, since no one reading (or the sole person writing) the story cares specifically about you, or who you are. But readers (and the sole person writing the article) do want to know what's being said by the public about the topic at hand, and you delivered with your input. Very few people are deserving of anything more than that in what amounts to a "man-on-the-street" article.

[SoCalPat]

Vai did Harvey a disservice, probably ina well-inentioned but wrong-headed) way. A young man like Harvey has to idea about the difference between speaking on background or off the record, or about how to speak to the news media gernerally. He probably just had a long talk with Vai and Vai chose what to report.

Anyway, I am sick of the Langi drama. Good luck to Harvey, whatever he does, except in games against Utah, when I hope he plays miserably and costs his team the game.

I feel bad for guys like Brad Rock and Dirk Facer, whose organizational credibility is undermined on a regular basis by the legions of pseudo-journalists employed by the D-News or Deseret Connect or whatever the hell that farce of a "newsgathering" organization calls itself these days.

[sancho]

It also symbolic of a lot of complaints media people receive. Ever read the comments section of a Monson column? It should be pretty simple why media folk don't take a lot of the public's criticisms seriously.

Media love these comments because it allows them to shrug off the intelligent comments as well. Baby with the bath. I follow a handful of college football writers on twitter, and they cant get enough of retweeting idiotic comments to each other.

Accusations of bias are either ignored or mocked. I get it. That industry stressed non-bias as part of the job. But, of course, non-bias does not exist. How can a beat reporter not pull for the team she's covering? (1) She's always around them, she develops relationships, sees how great they are. (2) If they do well, her job gets better. If they win it all, her job gets 1000 times more important. Who's not rooting for their own success?

Anyway, the best way to read the news is to skip the news and read the op-ed columns where the biases are clear and announced. Maureen Dowd has ripped into Dick Cheney 1000 in print, so I know exactly where she's coming from when she goes for number 1001.

[sancho]

since no one reading (or the sole person writing) the story cares specifically about you, or who you are

I care, UtahsMrSports.

[UtahsMrSports]

I feel bad for guys like Brad Rock and Dirk Facer, whose organizational credibility is undermined on a regular basis by the legions of pseudo-journalists employed by the D-News or Deseret Connect or whatever the hell that farce of a "newsgathering" organization calls itself these days.

You really arent calling Rhett Wilkinson and Vai Sikahema hacks are you?

[UtahsMrSports]

I care, UtahsMrSports.

*wipes tears from eyes*

[SoCalPat]

Media love these comments because it allows them to shrug off the intelligent comments as well. Baby with the bath. I follow a handful of college football writers on twitter, and they cant get enough of retweeting idiotic comments to each other.

Accusations of bias are either ignored or mocked. I get it. That industry stressed non-bias as part of the job. But, of course, non-bias does not exist. How can a beat reporter not pull for the team she's covering? (1) She's always around them, she develops relationships, sees how great they are. (2) If they do well, her job gets better. If they win it all, her job gets 1000 times more important. Who's not rooting for their own success?

Anyway, the best way to read the news is to skip the news and read the op-ed columns where the biases are clear and announced. Maureen Dowd has ripped into Dick Cheney 1000 in print, so I know exactly where she's coming from when she goes for number 1001.

I never looked at myself as being biased. But that didn't stop me from hoping for certain things. If that's an agenda, I proudly admit to having one. I can guarantee you no sports writer with established deadlines ever roots for overtime. Every beat writer is happy when the season is over. On the flip side, we hate seeing blowouts, but sometimes, the best story is the blowout (on a related note, USC under Kiffin goes against your point about a beat writer wanting to see the team do well -- the story wasn't W-L, but Kiffin's antics). Media folk have their own interests in mind, but they're rarely lock-in-step with what their readership's interests are. Most of the time, we just didn't want to be bored.

[Solon]

You have a lot of good takes on this board, but when you say this, you might as well say Kyle coaches to lose games. Reporters who want to get it wrong have already satisfied all absolute means for a plantiff to collect damages in a civil lawsuit. Unless I'm missing some advanced form of subtlety on your end, what you're describing is called actual malice or disregard for the truth.

Diehard's comments are cute too, but I cut him some slack because he's a cop and there are probably just as many people who are as wrong about his job as he is about the media's.

Eh, this is fair criticism and your point is taken.
I doubt reporters are maliciously nefarious in garbling facts.

I would probably soften the point to suggest that some reporters do a poor job, whether due to laziness, incompetence, or external pressures. Just like any other job.

sorry for my clumsiness. No offense was intended.

[UTEopia]

There is a rumor being circulated on Utefans and Rivals that Travis got arrested or in trouble at a concert last night. I have it on pretty solid authority that Travis did not get in any trouble and that this is just byu fans again spreading untruths.

[UtahsMrSports]

There is a rumor being circulated on Utefans and Rivals that Travis got arrested or in trouble at a concert last night. I have it on pretty solid authority that Travis did not get in any trouble and that this is just byu fans again spreading untruths.

This is a developing story. No, he was not arrested. Also, no, unfortunately, this is not just BYU fans making stuff up either. Travis was cited for possession of alcohol at a tim mcgraw concert and he was released on the spot. That has been confirmed by multiple sources. make what you will of it.

[Crimsonute]

This is a developing story. No, he was not arrested. Also, no, unfortunately, this is not just BYU fans making stuff up either. Travis was cited for possession of alcohol at a tim mcgraw concert and he was released on the spot. That has been confirmed by multiple sources. make what you will of it.It's been all blown out of proportion. We all know it was because Travis had a Six Pack in public.

[UtahsMrSports]

stories like this are one of the main reasons why I shut my twitter account down. BYU fans will race to condemn this and no matter what penalty comes of it, they will stick their chest out and boast about how BYU would handle it differently. Ute fans will rush to try and minimize the severity of whatever actually happened. Everybody will throw out wild speculation to try and get their name and twitter handle out there "I know that this was a BYU fan cop with an agenda!" The bottom-feeding talk radio hacks will stir the pot and blow it way out of proportion.

Meanwhile, I have really enjoyed Matt Piper and Kyle Goon's coverage of the Utes in the trib. Ill stick with them.

[LA Ute]

Summon Diehard! What does it mean to be cited for possession of alcohol by a minor at a Tim McGraw concert? (I think the Tim McGraw part would be relevant only at sentencing. That could add a few months to TW's jail term -- to say nothing of the hit to his public image.) If Travis bought the tix himself and invited others to come, that could make matters even worse, because then there's premeditation. If he was also clapping and stomping for McGraw then we are in big trouble. An BYU graduate judge who loves Afterglow concerts will throw he book at poor Travis. The Utes will go 2-9 while he is in jail, Kyle will lose his job, key players will transfer, and the PAC-12 may kick us out of the league. That would open a spot for BYU. I have to stop now because I am starting to get too depressed to continue.

[UTEopia]

Summon Diehard! What does it mean to be cited for possession of alcohol by a minor at a Tim McGraw concert? (I think the Tim McGraw part would be relevant only at sentencing. That could add a few months to TW's jail term -- to say nothing of the hit to his public image.) If Travis bought the tix himself and invited others to come, that could make matters even worse, because then there's premeditation. If he was also clapping and stomping for McGraw then we are in big trouble. An BYU graduate judge who loves Afterglow concerts will throw he book at poor Travis. The Utes will go 2-9 while he is in jail, Kyle will lose his job, key players will transfer, and the PAC-12 may kick us out of the league. That would open a spot for BYU. I have to stop now because I am starting to get too depressed to continue.

Having recently experienced this with someone I know it resulted in a fine ($400) and attend a two hour alcohol awareness class ($100).

[UtahsMrSports]

Summon Diehard! What does it mean to be cited for possession of alcohol by a minor at a Tim McGraw concert? (I think the Tim McGraw part would be relevant only at sentencing. That could add a few months to TW's jail term -- to say nothing of the hit to his public image.) If Travis bought the tix himself and invited others to come, that could make matters even worse, because then there's premeditation. If he was also clapping and stomping for McGraw then we are in big trouble. An BYU graduate judge who loves Afterglow concerts will throw he book at poor Travis. The Utes will go 2-9 while he is in jail, Kyle will lose his job, key players will transfer, and the PAC-12 may kick us out of the league. That would open a spot for BYU. I have to stop now because I am starting to get too depressed to continue.

Here is my plan to fix this:

-In a week, have Travis lead a devotional at a local prison.
-Hire a national sportswriter to pretend he is an unbiased observer and have him write a story about how Travis was going to turn himself in, and getting caught has been the best thing to ever happen because in the last week, he has experienced a mighty change of heart.
-Have this national writer include a couple of completely unnecessary, unexplained jabs at BYU, just for good measure.
-Have this unbiased observer join a UTe podcast to talk about how awesome the UTes are and how he is cheering for them.

I have heard that this method can clean up just about anything.........

[LA Ute]

Having recently experienced this with someone I know it resulted in a fine ($400) and attend a two hour alcohol awareness class ($100).

All my joking aside, I imagine KW will have a talk with Travis about how a team captain should conduct himself in public. (I am assuming that Travis was disorderly to some extent -- otherwise the police wouldn't have become involved. I may be wrong about that.)

[NorthwestUteFan]

Tapatalk fail, double post...


...and double Tapatalk fail. When I edited this post the other one disappeared.

OK, so I know that possession of a Mild* Barley Drink is supposed to be a hanging offense in the Pretty, Great state of Utah, but would this even be a citation in 5 months when TW turns 21?

(*especially Utah's 3.2 beer)

[UTEopia]

All my joking aside, I imagine KW will have a talk with Travis about how a team captain should conduct himself in public. (I am assuming that Travis was disorderly to some extent -- otherwise the police wouldn't have become involved. I may be wrong about that.)

I think you are probably wrong about that unless he was also cited for being drunk and disorderly in public which is a different offense than simply consumption of alcohol by a minor.

[concerned]

No wonder Langi wants to leave. TW would be a very very bad influence on his testimony. Better to get out before he has to repent. (TIC)

[Diehard Ute]

This is a developing story. No, he was not arrested. Also, no, unfortunately, this is not just BYU fans making stuff up either. Travis was cited for possession of alcohol at a tim mcgraw concert and he was released on the spot. That has been confirmed by multiple sources. make what you will of it.

He was arrested.

In Utah a citation for a class C or B misdemeanor is an arrest. The citation issued is done in lieu of booking someone into jail. (Which they could have done)

It's a class B misdemeanor which is punishable by up to 6 months in jail and a fine up to $1,000. There are also suspension of driver license issues as well. Now those are the max punishments, a judge has a ton of leeway especially for first offenses.

Wonder who leaked it prompting UHP to issue a press release

[Diehard Ute]

All my joking aside, I imagine KW will have a talk with Travis about how a team captain should conduct himself in public. (I am assuming that Travis was disorderly to some extent -- otherwise the police wouldn't have become involved. I may be wrong about that.)

Can't say for sure, but he was cited by UHP's alcohol compliance guys...their whole job at events like that is to search out violations of alcohol code.

[LA Ute]

Can't say for sure, but he was cited by UHP's alcohol compliance guys...their whole job at events like that is to search out violations of alcohol code.

That's actually quite interesting. It's one thing if he was behaving in a drunk and disorderly manner, but it's quite another if he was simply busted ("carded" was the term back in the day) for underage drinking. That is pretty much nothing, IMO.

[Diehard Ute]

That's actually quite interesting. It's one thing if he was behaving in a drunk and disorderly manner, but it's quite another if he was simply busted ("carded" was the term back in the day) for underage drinking. That is pretty much nothing, IMO.

Usually if someone behavior is what you describe there's public intoxication or disorder conduct charges used, but obviously only UHP can comment on what they did.

[LA Ute]

Wonder who leaked it prompting UHP to issue a press release

Maybe Darren Lucy (http://deadspin.com/this-is-the-photo-that-got-a-byu-football-player-suspen-1356566456) witnessed this incident too.

[Applejack]

This is a developing story. No, he was not arrested. Also, no, unfortunately, this is not just BYU fans making stuff up either. Travis was cited for possession of alcohol at a tim mcgraw concert and he was released on the spot. That has been confirmed by multiple sources. make what you will of it.

This news, if true, is shameful. I'm not sure I want to associate myself with young men who would voluntarily attend a Tim McGraw concert. Shameful.

[NorthwestUteFan]

He was merely tryng to do the same thing every other man at a Tim McGraw concert is trying to do: he was trying to get some stank on his hang-down.

[crazyute]

Meh...just have Travis Wilson go talk to some inmates and he will be twinkled into a saint.

[LA Ute]

I happened to learn from a source I trust that TW was cited at the McGraw concert but was allowed back into the hall for the rest of the performance. He wasn't kicked out. He wasn't inebriated or disorderly in any manner. This is starting to look like a very minimal thing. I'll bet that Travis has learned a lot about the downside of being a widely-recognized public figure (and the responsibility that goes with it).

[Old Standing ute]

Tim McGraw--really? That is embarassing.

My 19 year old son hangs out with the FB team; many of them enjoy a cold brew or 12. BUT he says they never listen to country.
Are we sure the ticket was not for listening to bad music?
p.s. My son received the same ticket (not the music part) earlier this year in Logan. Cost him $400 & community service.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Has there been a (relatively) recent change to the law or its enforcement? It seems they used to just make you pour it out and go home (without driving...), not issue citations for it.

And come on. Utah beer? It is almost impossible to drink enough Utah beer to get drunk, unless you plan to spend the next 6 hours, with a belly completely full of liquid, pissing like a racehorse. But just one or two? A few glasses of 3-day orange juice probably has more alcohol than a barley pop.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Also the difference with Jamaal Williams is that he blew a 0.12 bac. TW probably didn't even have any outside appearances of being buzzed.

[Diehard Ute]

Has there been a (relatively) recent change to the law or its enforcement? It seems they used to just make you pour it out and go home (without driving...), not issue citations for it.

And come on. Utah beer? It is almost impossible to drink enough Utah beer to get drunk, unless you plan to spend the next 6 hours, with a belly completely full of liquid, pissing like a racehorse. But just one or two? A few glasses of 3-day orange juice probably has more alcohol than a barley pop.

The UHP alcohol folks only job is to enforce the liquor laws. They go to concretes, jazz games and other large events looking for violations such as minors having alcohol, no ID verification or serving intoxicated people.

The number of enforcement officers has increased a few, it was part of the law that allowed more restaurant liquor licenses

[LA Ute]

The UHP alcohol folks only job is to enforce the liquor laws. They go to concretes, jazz games and other large events looking for violations such as minors having alcohol, no ID verification or serving intoxicated people.

The number of enforcement officers has increased a few, it was part of the law that allowed more restaurant liquor licenses

Sorry, but to this Mormon non-drinker and non-Utah resident (for 33 years now) this seems ridiculous.

[Diehard Ute]

Sorry, but to this Mormon non-drinker and non-Utah resident (for 33 years now) this seems ridiculous.

I guess I should mention they also go to bars restaurants etc to check that ID is being checked, that food is being ordered before someone buys a beer at restaurants etc.

It is what it is I guess.

[LA Ute]

I guess I should mention they also go to bars restaurants etc to check that ID is being checked, that food is being ordered before someone buys a beer at restaurants etc.

It is what it is I guess.

Good grief.

[U-Ute]

Something tells me that had Travis done this at an Eagles Reunion Tour concert his conversation with Whittingham would be considerably less uncomfortable. And now we have the hair.

Fall camp can't start fast enough.

[Applejack]

Something tells me that had Travis done this at an Eagles Reunion Tour concert his conversation with Whittingham would be considerably less uncomfortable. And now we have the hair.

Fall camp can't start fast enough.

Don't forget about the abs!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bs18vxRCMAAPypW.jpg:large

[LA Ute]

According to an account I saw, at the concert Ute fans swarmed Travis and offered him sips of a beer. He took some. No belligerence or disorderliness. The alcohol cops who (as Diehard has told us) patrol these events saw that Travis didn't have a "21 and over" wristband and cited him. (Again, to me this type of law enforcement attention to underage drinking is pretty surprising.) My guess: Whit will call Travis on the carpet but no disciplinary action.

[DrumNFeather]

Dres Anderson checks in at #24 on the Pac 12 Blog's list of the top 25 players in the conference. I wouldn't be surprised if he is our one and only player on the list.

[kccougar]

According to an account I saw, at the concert Ute fans swarmed Travis and offered him sips of a beer. He took some. No belligerence or disorderliness. The alcohol cops who (as Diehard has told us) patrol these events saw that Travis didn't have a "21 and over" wristband and cited him. (Again, to me this type of law enforcement attention to underage drinking is pretty surprising.) My guess: Whit will call Travis on the carpet but no disciplinary action.

Forgive my ignorance since I'm not a drinker, but I find the idea of a stranger coming up to someone and offering them a "sip" of their beverage to be really, really silly. I'm going to guess that as innocent as Travis' situation may have been, it probably didn't go down like that.

[Diehard Ute]

Forgive my ignorance since I'm not a drinker, but I find the idea of a stranger coming up to someone and offering them a "sip" of their beverage to be really, really silly. I'm going to guess that as innocent as Travis' situation may have been, it probably didn't go down like that.

You've never been to the lawn at USANA (or anything outside Provo) have you?

[SoCalPat]

Forgive my ignorance since I'm not a drinker, but I find the idea of a stranger coming up to someone and offering them a "sip" of their beverage to be really, really silly. I'm going to guess that as innocent as Travis' situation may have been, it probably didn't go down like that.

Nah, you pretty much nailed it. You have this drinker's approval that such a scenario is really silly, and probably didn't happen that way at all.

[LA Ute]

Forgive my ignorance since I'm not a drinker, but I find the idea of a stranger coming up to someone and offering them a "sip" of their beverage to be really, really silly. I'm going to guess that as innocent as Travis' situation may have been, it probably didn't go down like that.

Well, who really cares anyway? On the scale of offenses Travis' transgression seems laughably minor to me. Underage drinking was rampant in Utah during my high school and college years and I doubt that has changed much. Also, I have been out of the state since 1982, but I don't recall law enforcement offers patrolling concerts or similar events, on the lookout for underage drinkers. How recent is that approach?

[sancho]

(or anything outside Provo)

KC's body leaves Provo every once in a while, but his heart always stays behind.

[kccougar]

You've never been to the lawn at USANA (or anything outside Provo) have you?

In the 17 cities in 7 different states in which I've lived I've never seen anyone above the age of 15 offer to share their beer backwash. Sorry, maybe that's a USANA (SLC) thing?

[SoCalPat]

Well, who really cares anyway? On the scale of offenses Travis' transgression seems laughably minor to me. Underage drinking was rampant in Utah during my high school and college years and I doubt that has changed much. Also, I have been out of the state since 1982, but I don't recall law enforcement offers patrolling concerts or similar events, on the lookout for underage drinkers. How recent is that approach?

We can't mock cheapskate BYU Fan for trying to sidestep concessions at LES by having Mrs. BYU Fan smuggle in food for their six kids if we have Ute fans who are too miserly to buy the starting QB of their favorite team a beer of his own, instead bogarting out "sips". Good heavens, this account better not be true. We lose a good chunk of our Rivalry Smack ammunition if it is.