The Offensive Identity Thread

[LA Ute]

An ESPN article, "Urban Meyer's coaching tree blooms (http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls14/story/_/id/12085709/ohio-state-buckeyes-coach-urban-meyer-sends-assistants-head-coaching-jobs)," contains some interesting insights into Meyer's approach not only to hiring assistants but also to his offensive philosophy. Some bits:


Meyer said he does not look for assistant coaches who have the drive and ambition to run their own programs. He keeps his focus narrow. Meyer demands loyalty, both to himself and his coaching philosophy. He calls the latter "alignment."

"There's a systematic approach," Meyer said, "and everyone's aligned. We do it a certain way. It's not a grab bag. We're not going to change. We're not changing coordinators all the time. We're not changing coaches. We're not changing terminology, because that's not fair to the quarterback...."

"I want a guy that's willing to learn," Meyer said, "because we're not going to change, especially on offense. We don't hire Tom Herman to put in Iowa State's offense. We hire Tom Herman to learn our offense and add to it. He had an expertise in the no-huddle."
Maybe Kyle was not paying attention to what Urban was doing with the offense at Utah. Or maybe Urban developed this approach after he left Utah. In any case, I wish Kyle would try to emulate Urban in this regard.

[concerned]

An ESPN article, "Urban Meyer's coaching tree blooms (http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls14/story/_/id/12085709/ohio-state-buckeyes-coach-urban-meyer-sends-assistants-head-coaching-jobs)," contains some interesting insights into Meyer's approach not only to hiring assistants but also to his offensive philosophy. Some bits:


Maybe Kyle was not paying attention to what Urban was doing with the offense at Utah. Or maybe Urban developed this approach after he left Utah. In any case, I wish Kyle would try to emulate Urban in this regard.

Urban is an offensive guy. His offense doesn't change with coordinators anymore than KW's defense changes from Anderson to Sitake to whomever. KW cant do that on offense, because it isn't his.

[Diehard Ute]

An ESPN article, "Urban Meyer's coaching tree blooms (http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls14/story/_/id/12085709/ohio-state-buckeyes-coach-urban-meyer-sends-assistants-head-coaching-jobs)," contains some interesting insights into Meyer's approach not only to hiring assistants but also to his offensive philosophy. Some bits:


Maybe Kyle was not paying attention to what Urban was doing with the offense at Utah. Or maybe Urban developed this approach after he left Utah. In any case, I wish Kyle would try to emulate Urban in this regard.

I don't think that approach would have worked at pre Pac12 Utah. We didn't have the resources to try and hold a coordinator, they were going to jump when a spot opened up. We may be getting closer to that now, but Kyle will never be known as a coach an offensive coordinator wants to come and learn from. Defense is another story.

Sort of related. There's a piece up on the Ute equipment staff today. The director of equipment talks about when he arrived that year Utah had one helmet, be it for practice or games that players wore that helmet. Fast forward 6 years and we have 4 helmets. 3 for games and 1 for practice only.

A ton has changed on the Hill in 6 years. Guessing that growth has had benefits and drawbacks when you're the one running the show.

[Sullyute]

The director of equipment talks about when he arrived that year Utah had one helmet, be it for practice or games that players wore that helmet.

And Scalley would still like to know where his one helmet is?!

[Diehard Ute]

And Scalley would still like to know where his one helmet is?!

Pretty sure we know ;)

I actually have Boo Bendinger's helmet. When I worked on the fields at the U they gave us helmets one year, numbers were still on them.

[UTEopia]

An ESPN article, "Urban Meyer's coaching tree blooms (http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls14/story/_/id/12085709/ohio-state-buckeyes-coach-urban-meyer-sends-assistants-head-coaching-jobs)," contains some interesting insights into Meyer's approach not only to hiring assistants but also to his offensive philosophy. Some bits:


Maybe Kyle was not paying attention to what Urban was doing with the offense at Utah. Or maybe Urban developed this approach after he left Utah. In any case, I wish Kyle would try to emulate Urban in this regard.

You cannot reasonably expect a coach who has never coached on the offensive side of the ball to have an offensive system that is ready to plug in. Kyle spent his life coaching and thinking about defense and modifying a defensive system that he learned from his father. Urban, as I remember, said that he spent his time at CSU and the ND coming up with an offensive system (not used at either of those places) that he then was able to implement at Bowling Green and then at Utah. Urban's system was not invented overnight.

And no, I doubt he was paying much attention to what Urban was doing with the offense. If the time I spent around the coaches showed me anything, it was how much time is spent watching film of your players and what they do on the field both on game day and at practice. Reviewing what you have seen, after watching the film yourself 3 or 4 times, with the coordinator and the rest of the defensive staff and then reviewing it 1 or 2 times with your players. You then get to go out and prepare what you are going to do the next day, meet with your players and review it with them and then go out on the practice field. Once practice ends at 5 or 5:30 you grab dinner and hope that the film is ready so that you can watch it once before you head home. You then do it again the next day. Add an hour or of watching film on potential recruits or making phone calls and you have a pretty busy day. My guess is the last thing you want to do at the end of the day is go home and think about the other side of the ball.

One could argue that after becoming HC Kyle should have devoted all of his free-time to studying offenses and designing a system to employ at Utah. That would have taken him away from his other responsibilities and also severely limited his involvement. I think he did identify a style of offense that he wanted to run (spread) but then he made the mistake of hiring a guy (Ludwig) who does have an offensive system developed over many years that is not a spread offense. He then replaced ARod, who is a spread guy, with Chow, who isn't. He then replaced Chow with BJ, who was willing to do anything and everything because he had no real system. Why should he? He was only in his third year of coaching. He then replaced BJ with Erickson, who isn't really a spread guy and finally replaced Erickson with Christensen, who is. So my criticism of KW is that he failed to hire to a system because he isn't really convinced, one way or another, that your offense has to be a certain system to win. He is convinced that you win with great defense and not turning the ball over.

[LA Ute]

UTEopia has crystallized the problem. Surely people have talked to Kyle about this. Haven't they?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Utah]

I've heard Kyle say, "you'll never lose if you don't give up any points."

We need a Urban/Oregon/Arizona type offense. Those are all spread teams, BUT they are all run heavy, limit TO offenses.

[utefan]

A lot of great points here.

I'm still not convinced that Whittingham even cares about the offense beyond not turning the ball over and holding it long enough to give the defense a rest.

I believe he'd rather see an 8 minute drive that ends in a field goal than a 1 play, 80 yard touchdown.

[SeattleUte]

An ESPN article, "Urban Meyer's coaching tree blooms (http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls14/story/_/id/12085709/ohio-state-buckeyes-coach-urban-meyer-sends-assistants-head-coaching-jobs)," contains some interesting insights into Meyer's approach not only to hiring assistants but also to his offensive philosophy. Some bits:


Maybe Kyle was not paying attention to what Urban was doing with the offense at Utah. Or maybe Urban developed this approach after he left Utah. In any case, I wish Kyle would try to emulate Urban in this regard.

This is a great quote and you make a very valid criticism of Kyle Whittingham. Note that it doesn't even matter if Pope Urban loses his first two quarterbacks.

[U-Ute]

Kyle needs to go through whatever transformation Patterson did at TCU. They added a potent offense to that D.

[Two Utes]

Kyle needs to go through whatever transformation Patterson did at TCU. They added a potent offense to that D.

Kyle needs to have his university moved to the heart of Texas so he can better recruit all those athletes.

[UTEopia]

I think that Kyle understands this from a philosophical standpoint. Every year we hear that the offense is going to be faster and more aggressive and I believe that Kyle believes that is what will happen. However, when it gets down to it in tough games (and all of them except 1 or 2 per year are going to be tough games) Kyle does what we all do in tough situations. Revert to what we know best and what has worked for us in the past. For Kyle that means slow it down, don't turn the ball over, play field position, and let the defense and special teams keep you in the game so you have a chance to win in the end.

I understand Kyle's thinking. I am like him in that regard. I am not a risk taker. I would rather have $100 a year from now then have a 50/50 risk of having 0 or $200.

As for Urban, we all know he sold his soul to the devil. Could Shelly Meyer be anymore of a tv wannabe?

[SeattleUte]

Kyle needs to have his university moved to the heart of Texas so he can better recruit all those athletes.

This is so dead on.

[U-Ute]

Kyle needs to have his university moved to the heart of Texas so he can better recruit all those athletes.

I don't believe this is a talent issue. TCU has always had that kind of speed. I think it was a mentality shift by Patterson that he needed more offensive punch and brought in a guy who could take the existing talent and put it to better use.

UTEOpia posted the observation that Kyle keeps hiring coordinators seemingly without any real consideration to the existing talent. He keeps bouncing around between pro and spread style coaches. I am going to stretch credibility and assume that Kyle is not a dumb man who thinks offense doesn't matter, so this behavior still begs an explanation.

One theory is that he is hiring from a small pool of people who want to come here at a time when both the position and the employee is available. It could be the location that makes it less desirable, or maybe there is a prevailing sentiment that coming here, you are second fiddle to the defense.

Another is that Kyle looks at offense as "plug and play" vis-a-vis matching talent and system. His belief may be that offensive football is less about athletes and it is more about execution. Alex Smith and the 2004 season may have reinforced this a lot. That team was more about football players than speed. Smith and Weddle strongly exemplify that.

It may be neither. It may be a little from both. Who knows.

[utefan]

Kyle needs to have his university moved to the heart of Texas so he can better recruit all those athletes.
I don't think most kids in Texas are dreaming of the day they get to play for TCU. We should be able to recruit against TCU.

I doubt we even went after many of the same kids. And even if we did, we'd have just as good of a chance to land them as TCU.

Our fans have to be the biggest excuse makers around. I can understand if we're a MWC team trying to recruit against the Longhorns or something. But we're a Pac 12 team and you're talking about TCU. Them being in Texas doesn't mean very much to most recruits.

The kids are going to go to whatever school does the best job of selling itself. If a kid thinks he can come to Utah and be a starter who plays every snap, on a team that wins the Rose Bowl every year, he's probably going to give that some serious consideration, regardless of where he grew up.

If that same kid thinks he'll be buried on the bench in Utah, with Utah struggling on offense and missing a bowl game, he'll probably be looking harder at other options.

I'm sorry, but I can't get on board with the people implying that mediocrity is okay because we're Utah and that's the best Utah can hope for.

If you think some area has a natural advantage to produce better football players, then you recruit that area. Just because your school is not in that area doesn't mean you can't recruit it. Most players on Oregon's football team are not from Oregon. They're not making excuses about Oregon not being much of a natural football recruiting ground. They're going into the so called natural football places and recruiting the kids they want.

[crazyute]

Kyle needs to have his university moved to the heart of Texas so he can better recruit all those athletes.
Not true at all.

Booker is as good as any back they have
mccormick is as fast as anyone they have
mcclellon is as fast
Anderson is as fast
scott is as big
tonga is a better TE than anyone they have
tim Patrick is very similar is similar yo doctson
kenric young is as fast. Florida track kid
Dre'vian young is as fast. 5a Texas state track champ
Kaelin clay is as fast as anyone they have

its about using your talent and allowing the coaches to use your talent. Dre'vian or McCormick might not be the best blocking backs, but they sure can run the hell out of the fly sweep. You got to see it out of McCormick a bit in the bowl game. But Kyle won't let backs play until they learn to block. It has been the way it is since he has taken over. So use them in a way that they succeed. Allow your coordinators to work them in in situations.

[Two Utes]

I don't think most kids in Texas are dreaming of the day they get to play for TCU. We should be able to recruit against TCU.

I doubt we even went after many of the same kids. And even if we did, we'd have just as good of a chance to land them as TCU.

Our fans have to be the biggest excuse makers around. I can understand if we're a MWC team trying to recruit against the Longhorns or something. But we're a Pac 12 team and you're talking about TCU. Them being in Texas doesn't mean very much to most recruits.

The kids are going to go to whatever school does the best job of selling itself. If a kid thinks he can come to Utah and be a starter who plays every snap, on a team that wins the Rose Bowl every year, he's probably going to give that some serious consideration, regardless of where he grew up.

If that same kid thinks he'll be buried on the bench in Utah, with Utah struggling on offense and missing a bowl game, he'll probably be looking harder at other options.

I'm sorry, but I can't get on board with the people implying that mediocrity is okay because we're Utah and that's the best Utah can hope for.

If you think some area has a natural advantage to produce better football players, then you recruit that area. Just because your school is not in that area doesn't mean you can't recruit it. Most players on Oregon's football team are not from Oregon. They're not making excuses about Oregon not being much of a natural football recruiting ground. They're going into the so called natural football places and recruiting the kids they want.

I'm shocked that you disagree. Yes, Texas players do want to play in Texas. Yes TCU is a fine school and yes they just majorly upgraded their facilities. To suggest Texas players don't want to play for TCU is ass nine (especially now that they are in the Big XII) and suggests that you are not a reasonable person to argue with. You've made up your mind. All you are doing now is trying to support an argument that you are convinced is right. This is a waste of my time.

I feel like I am on Utefans arguing politics.

[utefan]

I'm shocked that you disagree. Yes, Texas players do want to play in Texas. Yes TCU is a fine school and yes they just majorly upgraded their facilities. To suggest Texas players don't want to play for TCU is ass nine (especially now that they are in the Big XII) and suggests that you are not a reasonable person to argue with. You've made up your mind. All you are doing now is trying to support an argument that you are convinced is right. This is a waste of my time.

I feel like I am on Utefans arguing politics.
Why is it unreasonable for me to think a kid in Texas might rather start at Utah than rot on TCU's bench? Or unreasonable to think a kid in Texas might prefer to practice in Utah's new facilities?

Utah loses in state recruits to out of state schools all the time, as does just about every other school in the country. The notion that any in state school will automatically win every recruit just because it's in state is what I consider to be unreasonable.

Lots of kids want to leave state for school.

[UTEopia]

Why is it unreasonable for me to think a kid in Texas might rather start at Utah than rot on TCU's bench? Or unreasonable to think a kid in Texas might prefer to practice in Utah's new facilities?

Utah loses in state recruits to out of state schools all the time, as does just about every other school in the country. The notion that any in state school will automatically win every recruit just because it's in state is what I consider to be unreasonable.

Lots of kids want to leave state for school.

Well if we depend on kids who would rot on TCU's bench I don't see us winning many games.

[utefan]

Well if we depend on kids who would rot on TCU's bench I don't see us winning many games.
I'm not sure if you're just trolling but I'll give it a response.

We would not have to depend on kids who would rot on TCU's bench in order to recruit kids from Texas. And even if we did get someone that was told by TCU they would not start, it doesn't necessarily mean they're not a good player. Maybe TCU has several QBs on the roster so they tell a pretty good QB recruit they'd like to play him at receiver. Or maybe they're moving to a system that doesn't utilize TE so they tell a good TE recruit he won't start.

We've had plenty of kids from Texas on the roster in the past, some of them very good players. It's crazy to assume we can't possibly get good recruits from the state of Texas just because we're Utah.

Lots of kids prefer to leave their home state when they go to college.

[justaute]

Let's posit this question again...if you were a highly regarded offensive recruit, why should you consider Utah?

[sancho]

Let's posit this question again...if you were a highly regarded offensive recruit, why should you consider Utah?

You ask this all the time. There are 100 good reasons, and we've already laid them all out. We'll be alright.

[Coastal Ute]

I'm sorry, but I can't get on board with the people implying that mediocrity is okay because we're Utah and that's the best Utah can hope for.

Yup.

[LA Ute]

Listening to Swinney and Dolce on ESPN700. Dolce thinks Kyle should emulate Stanford's offense. 'Furd and we already play defense the same way, essentially. We can recruit RBs and always have. So why not keep doing what we've always done well with good RBs, then recruit good game manager QBs, maybe have a couple of tight ends more often than not, and so forth? We are not good at recruiting QBs or WRs to our offense (which seems to be designed to attempt a power running attack out of a spread-type formation).

It's an interesting idea. What's wrong with it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[concerned]

Listening to Swinney and Dolce on ESPN700. Dolce thinks Kyle should emulate Stanford's offense. 'Furd and we already play defense the same way, essentially. We can recruit RBs and always have. So why not keep doing what we've always done well with good RBs, then recruit good game manager QBs, maybe have a couple of tight ends more often than not, and so forth? We are not good at recruiting QBs or WRs to our offense (which seems to be designed to attempt a power running attack out of a spread-type formation).

It's an interesting idea. What's wrong with it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i will cut and paste what I wrote in the rumours therad the other day:

"I thought we had been there done that. That was sort of the reason we hired Chow. Then we decided we couldn't recruit the o line and qb necessary to run the Stanford or USC offense. I swear i remember KW saying that the spread played to our recruiting strengths better when he promoted BJ or when he hired DC, and said we were going to run a spread offense."

In the last two years, KW has emphatically embraced the spread offense, I think because he thinks it is easier for us to recruit to it. If we went back to a Stanford offense, it would take years of rebuilding because we don't have the players to run it. Or the coaches to coach it.

[SeattleUte]

i will cut and paste what I wrote in the rumours therad the other day:

"I thought we had been there done that. That was sort of the reason we hired Chow. Then we decided we couldn't recruit the o line and qb necessary to run the Stanford or USC offense. I swear i remember KW saying that the spread played to our recruiting strengths better when he promoted BJ or when he hired DC, and said we were going to run a spread offense."

In the last two years, KW has emphatically embraced the spread offense, I think because he thinks it is easier for us to recruit to it. If we went back to a Stanford offense, it would take years of rebuilding because we don't have the players to run it. Or the coaches to coach it.



I'm interested in how Wasu does without its staring qb today. The backup is 9-12 for 64 yards in the opening drive that ended in a field goal. No ints yet. With Leach it really is just a system with fungible qbs; we've see this a lot.

[Diehard Ute]

I'm interested in how Wasu does without its staring qb today. The backup is 9-12 for 64 yards in the opening drive that ended in a field goal. No ints yet. With Leach it really is just a system with fungible qbs; we've see this a lot.

Didn't end well for them at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[U-Ute]

I'm interested in how Wasu does without its staring qb today. The backup is 9-12 for 64 yards in the opening drive that ended in a field goal. No ints yet. With Leach it really is just a system with fungible qbs; we've see this a lot.

So far, not so good.

This is the problem when you focus on offense and QB's: you become Baylor or Oregon who is either way up or way down depending on your QB situation. With an offense that relies on running and an offensive line and the primary responsibilities of your QB is to manage the offense and make a play every once in a while, you are more likely to have consistent, but not necessarily great, play.

[Diehard Ute]

So far, not so good.

This is the problem when you focus on offense and QB's: you become Baylor or Oregon who is either way up or way down depending on your QB situation. With an offense that relies on running and an offensive line and the primary responsibilities of your QB is to manage the offense and make a play every once in a while, you are more likely to have consistent, but not necessarily great, play.

The 49ers decided to go the QB route. They lost the war.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[U-Ute]

The 49ers decided to go the QB route. They lost the war.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I always hear people complain that we can't get QBs like Oregon or Arizona. I don't hear many. people complain about not being able to recruit QBs like Alabama does yet Alabama is pretty much the gold standard for football.