The Larry Krystkowiak Thread

[UTEopia]

Does this reasoning apply to Krystkowiak? From Jon Wilner yesterday: "USC is hemorrhaging cash on game day. Question isn't whether Trojans can afford to fire Clay Helton. It's whether they can afford to keep him."

It probably does, but to a much lesser extent. The U is doing a lot of stuff this year to get people to basketball games, but I don't know if it is helping very much.
We have 2 season tickets, although we will not be able to use any of the PAC 12 tickets other than Oregon and Oregon St. and possibly Colorado. (Anyone interested in purchasing the tickets, Sec. C, Row 29, Seats 5/6 - let me know. I will sell each game for $25). We went to the Mississippi Valley State game and there were very few people there. However, for the Minnesota game, the lower bowl was packed. They had the upper bowl curtained off and there were students who were standing because there were not enough seats. We did not go down from Park City to the UCD game because of the snow, but from TV attendance did not look good. I imagine a good crowd for BYU although the 6:00 pm start will not help. I suspect the last home Non-con game against Arkansas State will be bad. We will miss because we are headed to PAC 12 Champ. game. (anyone wants those tickets, let me know).

I think there are a number of things impacting buying and attending games: 1) pricing for many people is too high; 2) the unpredictability of game days and start times; 3) poor competition; 4) the ease of buying the games you want on the secondary market. (this will impact Utah football beginning next year as you could walk up and buy tickets from scalpers for $10-$20 for every home game this year).

I don't think firing LK will change any of those things. I think for the most part the basketball season tickets holders have already been winnowed down to the diehards and until the factors I have listed and probably others I haven't thought of are addressed, nothing will change.

[SeattleUte]

You can't just live off diehards (no disrespect to our Diehard).

[Scorcho]

nearly forgot that we have a basketball game tonight.

college hoops appears to be dying a slow death

[sancho]

nearly forgot that we have a basketball game tonight.

college hoops appears to be dying a slow death

College hoops always dies a slow death until its annual March resurrection. DNF likes our chances tonight...I still don't like our chances. Hopefully Carlson is back.

[SeattleUte]

it only seems like college basketball is dying from our limited perspective. College basketball at Utah is dying, that's for sure. I've seen countless Utah games. I was a manager for the team. But I have never seen the awful curtain some of you have described. To hear about that turns my stomach. How many times have I seen the arena full, even in preseason? A lot. Now, here we are with Salt Lake City a lot bigger, Utah in the Pac 12, etc and we have this curtain going up. It's a travesty. Sad.

[Scorcho]

it only seems like college basketball is dying from our limited perspective. College basketball at Utah is dying, that's for sure. I've seen countless Utah games. I was a manager for the team. But I have never seen the awful curtain some of you have described. To hear about that turns my stomach. How many times have I seen the arena full, even in preseason? A lot. Now, here we are with Salt Lake City a lot bigger, Utah in the Pac 12, etc and we have this curtain going up. It's a travesty. Sad.

I was just thinking back to the mid 90's, where places like Utah, New Mexico, UNLV and UCLA (with sizable arenas) were consistently packed and now those schools can't give away tickets


UNLV’s announced attendance, which includes tickets out, averages 8,559 in the 18,000-seat building, its sixth decline in a row and its lowest figure in the Thomas & Mack, which opened in 1983

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/unlv/unlv-basketball/unlv-faces-challenge-of-trying-to-fill-seats-at-thomas-mack-1603650/




Here are the attendance averages from the previous three seasons: 8,620 (2017-18), 11,183 (2016-17), and 8,073 (2015-16). Attendance at Pauley Pavilion this season has been well below that: 7,673. If you subtract the 12,985 that went to the Notre Dame game (which still couldn’t fill the 13,800 seats), the average drops to 6,913.

https://gojoebruin.com/2018/12/26/ucla-basketball-with-the-team-struggling-ucla-is-giving-away-free-tickets/

[sancho]

it only seems like college basketball is dying from our limited perspective. College basketball at Utah is dying, that's for sure. I've seen countless Utah games. I was a manager for the team. But I have never seen the awful curtain some of you have described. To hear about that turns my stomach. How many times have I seen the arena full, even in preseason? A lot. Now, here we are with Salt Lake City a lot bigger, Utah in the Pac 12, etc and we have this curtain going up. It's a travesty. Sad.

We've all experienced the full Huntsman Center, and it is sad to see the curtain. We recently have had higher attendance than anyone else in the Pac-12 other than Arizona. I think we're still there or close to there. The death of college basketball is a national trend. It may be happening faster in SLC due to our mediocrity, but it seems to be happening everywhere.

Teams like Duke/UNC/Kentucky/etc are, of course, still selling out, but it's not the same. I have been a Duke fan since 2001, when I started grad school there. The buzz is less than it has been because it takes a lot of energy to re-invest in an almost entirely new team every season. Last season, we had Zion to keep interest in college hoops. Who do we have this season? Who are the players/teams we are excited to watch? We don't know yet because 90% of them are 1-and-done freshmen.

For the college basketball junkies on this board...if you look at the top 10, can you name the players on the teams? Who are the leading candidates for the Wooden award? It's crazy to me that I can't answer those questions anymore.

Duke just lost to Stephen F Austin. It looked like men against boys with a bunch of jacked, 20-something Texas studs against a bunch of lost, skinny, 18-year-old Dukies. But Duke was ranked #1 and SFA was in the 250s in Kenpom.

[SeattleUte]

I was just thinking back to the mid 90's, where places like Utah, New Mexico, UNLV and UCLA (with sizable arenas) were consistently packed and now those schools can't give away tickets

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/unlv/unlv-basketball/unlv-faces-challenge-of-trying-to-fill-seats-at-thomas-mack-1603650/





https://gojoebruin.com/2018/12/26/ucla-basketball-with-the-team-struggling-ucla-is-giving-away-free-tickets/

Those schools had good teams then.

[LA Ute]

Those schools had good teams then.

We still lead the PAC-12 in attendance, or at least are near the top. Our arena is too big for the times -- college basketball attendance is down nationwide, with rare exceptions. People watch on TV.

[concerned]

People watch on TV.

Or they dont watch at all. The interest in college bb has dwindled significantly since the advent of the one and done and the explosive growth of nba.

[Mormon Red Death]

Anyone in ABQ and want to watch the game with me? I'm at spectators. I'll be the guy watching the byu vs Utah gam

[Mormon Red Death]

Everybody brace yourselves for the 50 posts from SU on how we screwed up not recruiting Childs

[sancho]

Everybody brace yourselves for the 50 posts from SU on how we screwed up not recruiting Childs

Single biggest mistake of Larry's tenure.

This program feels so dead right now. Nobody's in the stands for BYU/Utah.

[sancho]

We do not have a single player with a post game. We also don't have much outside shooting. We need Allen and Gach to drive on every play. Its the only effective piece of the offense.

[Mormon Red Death]

Several times I was ready for the blowout and here we are at 4 points

[sancho]

Several times I was ready for the blowout and here we are at 4 points

Yeah, if they could just miss some of those threes....or if any of ours could go down. I think we are a shooter and a post presence away from being pretty good.

So, the TV guys said that Mark Pope took a time out to ask for a review on the bad moving screen call against Janunen. Pope wanted them to call it a flagrant!

[chrisrenrut]

Rylan Jones is going to be fun. Should be some good matchups between him and Mannion at AZ.

[chrisrenrut]

This is a nice win for this young team!

[Mormon Red Death]

Beautiful!

[Scorcho]

wow, nice win by Utah

[hostile]

Did not expect that. Fun game to attend! Crowd was loud but would have been deafening if it were more than 2/3 full. Jahntunen is going to be good-loved his D; soft hands around the rim. Great win!

[UTEopia]

We still lead the PAC-12 in attendance, or at least are near the top. Our arena is too big for the times -- college basketball attendance is down nationwide, with rare exceptions. People watch on TV.

We may lead in tickets sold and student seats allotted, but unless the high is 5,000, there is no way we lead the league in butts in the seats.

[SeattleUte]

Or they dont watch at all. The interest in college bb has dwindled significantly since the advent of the one and done and the explosive growth of nba.

Just this year I heard Daryl Morey say on Feakonomiks that the NCAA playoffs make more money than the entire NBA regular season combined. He was arguing that the NBA needs to drastically shorten the season and go to single elimination in the playoffs.

College basketball is superior.

[mUUser]

.......This program feels so dead right now. Nobody's in the stands for BYU/Utah.

??? I liked the energy tonight.


Rylan Jones is going to be fun......

Ive seen this kid play a lot of ball. Mark my word, he’ll be one of the all-time great Utes by the time he leaves the hill, assuming he stays healthy.

[SeattleUte]

This past NCAA playoffs was the greatest ever in my estimation. I’ve never seen anything like Virginia’s close wins. A team built on payers who’d been there for years.

An average of about six ones and dones a year. That is ruining college basketball? I don’t think so. We’re characteristically stuck in our own prism.

https://theundefeated.com/features/all-the-nba-drafts-one-and-done-lottery-picks-a-scorecard/

[SeattleUte]

Everybody brace yourselves for the 50 posts from SU on how we screwed up not recruiting Childs

Even I’m smart enough to look at the ESPN 100 and see that the 45th kid lives 20 minutes from campus, and say, We need to offer that guy.

[UtahsMrSports]

Even I’m smart enough to look at the ESPN 100 and see that the 45th kid lives 20 minutes from campus, and say, We need to offer that guy.

So after an offseason where you referred to Mark Pope as a "real" coach, you dont have anything to say about the game "your" team just won, but instead, you go to an old, worn out, obvious talking point?

I am stunned.

[Mormon Red Death]

Even I’m smart enough to look at the ESPN 100 and see that the 45th kid lives 20 minutes from campus, and say, We need to offer that guy.

I agree with you... Larry's biggest mistake was not recruiting him.

[LA Ute]

This thread is embarrassing. I hereby disassociate myself from it.

[SeattleUte]

This thread is embarrassing. I hereby disassociate myself from it.

If you read the thread, the thing wrong with this thread is the title. Why don’t you merge the content into the general Larry Krystkowiak thread. If there isn’t one, just change the title.

[SeattleUte]

I did not start the thread. But there have been harsher judgments than the content of this thread posted under the Kyle Whittingham thread. So just get rid of the title as I suggested.

[sancho]

I did not start the thread. But there have been harsher judgments than the content of this thread posted under the Kyle Whittingham thread. So just get rid of the title as I suggested.

We just have too many threads in general. It's unwieldy. When (if) there is a reboot for this site, we should have only a handful of threads (channels):

Utah football
Utah basketball
Utah recruiting
Utah other sports
Pac-12 sports
NCAA sports
Professional sports
Politics
Religion
BYU
General Chat

[Solon]

Awesome stuff! Thanks for posting!

Seattle Ute pointed out that the "Fire Larry Krystkowiak" Thread wasn't really focusing on firing Larry at all - and he suggested we merge the content.
(see here: https://www.utahby5.com/showthread.php?2621-The-Fire-Larry-Krystkowiak-Thread&p=129094&viewfull=1#post129094 )

It's a good point but, rather than merge the threads, I'm just going to bump this one and encourage people to be smart about what they post in which thread.

If individual posters want to have their own posts migrated or merged to this thread, let me know and I'll spend hours fumbling with a keyboard until I figure it out.

[Solon]

If you read the thread, the thing wrong with this thread is the title. Why don’t you merge the content into the general Larry Krystkowiak thread. If there isn’t one, just change the title.

We do have a Larry K. thread that took me awhile to find since it hasn't been posted to in 4.5+ years.
I'm not going to merge them, but I'm going to bump it.

Here it is:

https://www.utahby5.com/showthread.php?1742-The-Larry-Krystkowiak-Thread

[U-Ute]

Merged.

[sancho]

Merged.

Yes, merge them all!

[LA Ute]

So far this season, the original thread here is not aging well.

[SeattleUte]

So far this season, the original thread here is not aging well.

Well, the guy who started it hasn't been around for a while, so you're preaching to the choir.

I told you guys you don't need five stars or ones and dones, who are often poison. You need chemistry, and it helps that if the players are together for more than one year.

And life is better with a good point guard.

[UTEopia]

And life is better with a good point guard.

If you look at Utah's better teams, they always have had a good, true point guard. I know the Utes are in for a long season when I hear the coaches say that we don't really have a true point guard and that multiple players can handle the ball. It is never about handling it. It is about distributing it for good shots.

[SeattleUte]

If you look at Utah's better teams, they always have had a good, true point guard. I know the Utes are in for a long season when I hear the coaches say that we don't really have a true point guard and that multiple players can handle the ball. It is never about handling it. It is about distributing it for good shots.

This is so true especially in college basketball. As great as Majerus was, his legacy would look very different if you subtract one player, Andre Miller, whose greatness was quite unexpected.

[LA Ute]

Well, the guy who started it hasn't been around for a while, so you're preaching to the choir.

I told you guys you don't need five stars or ones and dones, who are often poison. You need chemistry, and it helps that if the players are together for more than one year.

And life is better with a good point guard.

I knew you would find a way to say this proves you were right all along. Wonderful! LOL.

[SeattleUte]

I knew you would find a way to say this proves you were right all along. Wonderful! LOL.

I'm also the one who told you to merge the threads.

[Utebiquitous]

I just saw this Seattle - couldn't agree with you more. Shout out to my friend Jim Soto as well who was critical to the early success Majerus had. I was just sitting here thinking about a number of the teams I enjoyed and point guards came to mind in all of them - Jeff Jonas, Scott Martin, Pace Mannion. Tim Drisdom and Mark Jackson deserve mention as well. Interesting to note that Delon Wright is probably the only really good point guard Larry has had until now. I look at Pritchard at Oregon and I wonder if Rylan is that effective his junior and senior years? He might be be.

I still think this Utah team is heading for a tough Pac-12 season. I hope they prove me wrong.

[LA Ute]

I'm also the one who told you to merge the threads.

Your superb diversionary tactics never disappoint.

2599

[Scratch]

I just saw this Seattle - couldn't agree with you more. Shout out to my friend Jim Soto as well who was critical to the early success Majerus had. I was just sitting here thinking about a number of the teams I enjoyed and point guards came to mind in all of them - Jeff Jonas, Scott Martin, Pace Mannion. Tim Drisdom and Mark Jackson deserve mention as well. Interesting to note that Delon Wright is probably the only really good point guard Larry has had until now. I look at Pritchard at Oregon and I wonder if Rylan is that effective his junior and senior years? He might be be.

I still think this Utah team is heading for a tough Pac-12 season. I hope they prove me wrong.


I would say Justin Bibbins was also a very good point guard, and that was, not surprisingly, one of the best teams under Krystko.

[Mormon Red Death]

I just saw this Seattle - couldn't agree with you more. Shout out to my friend Jim Soto as well who was critical to the early success Majerus had. I was just sitting here thinking about a number of the teams I enjoyed and point guards came to mind in all of them - Jeff Jonas, Scott Martin, Pace Mannion. Tim Drisdom and Mark Jackson deserve mention as well. Interesting to note that Delon Wright is probably the only really good point guard Larry has had until now. I look at Pritchard at Oregon and I wonder if Rylan is that effective his junior and senior years? He might be be.

I still think this Utah team is heading for a tough Pac-12 season. I hope they prove me wrong.

Brandon Taylor is in the running for top player 6' and under ever at the U (in my lifetime). The list off the top of my head

Mark Jackson
Brandon Taylor
Justin Bibbins (only one year)
Jimmy Soto
Johnnie Bryant
Tommy Connor
Tyrone Tate
Jeremy Killian
Tyler Kepkay

[chrisrenrut]

Brandon Taylor is in the running for top player 6' and under ever at the U (in my lifetime). The list off the top of my head

Mark Jackson
Brandon Taylor
Justin Bibbins (only one year)
Jimmy Soto
Johnnie Bryant
Tommy Connor
Tyrone Tate
Jeremy Killian
Tyler Kepkay

+Manny Hendrix

[SoCalPat]

At this rate, it's hard to imagine a scenario in which we're debating Larry's future after this year (OK, we can all find monsters under that bed, but we've really got nothing to base them on but the past). The Kentucky win is major currency for my demographic of Ute fan, and was the first noticeable increase in Larry's goodwill tank in some time. I'm still not convinced we're a tournament lock, and I think Oregon is going to blow our doors off. Past that, anything is possible. San Diego State will be a massive test for us -- how do we respond off a seismic win? A win there, and we can start talking about the Pac-12's status as perhaps the best league in the country (A collective bounce-back by the league is the one thing that hasn't surprised me, pleasant as that has been). I would count 8 likely/potential NCAA teams at that point. (That one of them wouldn't be UCLA strengthens that point even more.)

I grossly underestimated what Timmy Allen was capable of. I would not have been surprised if he largely peaked last year, and the best we were gonna get from him was a 15 PPG guy. He's already shown more improvement than Jordan Loveridge ever did, and he's done it without benefit of a reliable 3-point shot. Another major plus for this year's team has been 3-point shooting. With the increased distance, and losing Sed and PVD, one would think we'd both shoot fewer 3s, and be less successful when we did. Instead, the dropoff has been minimal. Prior to UK, we were taking about 1 less 3 per game from last year (26-25), and making 1 less percent (37-36).

Defensively, we've gotten much better, although with so few games, two games like Weber and Kentucky will really move the meter. Pomeroy has us 156th in adjusted defense -- we've been in the mid-200s for a good chunk of the non-con, IIRC. We are 17th in luck, which suggests something, although I don't know what it is. We have blown sizable leads in two of our wins, and better load management by Pope with Childs in the BYU game might result in a different outcome there as well.

No matter. The results are better than what we've expected, and anyone who says otherwise is lying. That said, Myrtle Beach was a disaster, UC-Davis further showed we're not immune from playing down to the competition and we still don't know what this offseason will bring. But so far, the team has largely overdelivered, and that was a must to keep Larry from coaching for his job in the 2020-21 season.

[SeattleUte]

I just saw this Seattle - couldn't agree with you more. Shout out to my friend Jim Soto as well who was critical to the early success Majerus had. I was just sitting here thinking about a number of the teams I enjoyed and point guards came to mind in all of them - Jeff Jonas, Scott Martin, Pace Mannion. Tim Drisdom and Mark Jackson deserve mention as well. Interesting to note that Delon Wright is probably the only really good point guard Larry has had until now. I look at Pritchard at Oregon and I wonder if Rylan is that effective his junior and senior years? He might be be.

I still think this Utah team is heading for a tough Pac-12 season. I hope they prove me wrong.

I'm the same. Agree with MRD about Brandon Taylor, though. I love that guy.

[SeattleUte]

At this rate, it's hard to imagine a scenario in which we're debating Larry's future after this year (OK, we can all find monsters under that bed, but we've really got nothing to base them on but the past). The Kentucky win is major currency for my demographic of Ute fan, and was the first noticeable increase in Larry's goodwill tank in some time. I'm still not convinced we're a tournament lock, and I think Oregon is going to blow our doors off. Past that, anything is possible. San Diego State will be a massive test for us -- how do we respond off a seismic win? A win there, and we can start talking about the Pac-12's status as perhaps the best league in the country (A collective bounce-back by the league is the one thing that hasn't surprised me, pleasant as that has been). I would count 8 likely/potential NCAA teams at that point. (That one of them wouldn't be UCLA strengthens that point even more.)

I grossly underestimated what Timmy Allen was capable of. I would not have been surprised if he largely peaked last year, and the best we were gonna get from him was a 15 PPG guy. He's already shown more improvement than Jordan Loveridge ever did, and he's done it without benefit of a reliable 3-point shot. Another major plus for this year's team has been 3-point shooting. With the increased distance, and losing Sed and PVD, one would think we'd both shoot fewer 3s, and be less successful when we did. Instead, the dropoff has been minimal. Prior to UK, we were taking about 1 less 3 per game from last year (26-25), and making 1 less percent (37-36).

Defensively, we've gotten much better, although with so few games, two games like Weber and Kentucky will really move the meter. Pomeroy has us 156th in adjusted defense -- we've been in the mid-200s for a good chunk of the non-con, IIRC. We are 17th in luck, which suggests something, although I don't know what it is. We have blown sizable leads in two of our wins, and better load management by Pope with Childs in the BYU game might result in a different outcome there as well.

No matter. The results are better than what we've expected, and anyone who says otherwise is lying. That said, Myrtle Beach was a disaster, UC-Davis further showed we're not immune from playing down to the competition and we still don't know what this offseason will bring. But so far, the team has largely overdelivered, and that was a must to keep Larry from coaching for his job in the 2020-21 season.

I think Allen's progress owes a lot to Rylan Jones. In college basketball, PG is the dominant position on a winning team. To Allen's credit, he has heaped credit on Jones, calling him already the best PG in the conference. That's a stretch at this point, but I can't think of a Ute PG, for all the great ones we've had, including Miller, who had so successful a freshman season as Jones is having so far. It's a tough position to master.

Jones has been the most surprising development to me. I had low expectations for a point guard who was a star locally but now had to scale a huge transition. He also is evincing the iron will that is required of great point guards.

[DrumNFeather]

I think Allen's progress owes a lot to Rylan Jones. In college basketball, PG is the dominant position on a winning team. To Allen's credit, he has heaped credit on Jones, calling him already the best PG in the conference. That's a stretch at this point, but I can't think of a Ute PG, for all the great ones we've had, including Miller, who had so successful a freshman season as Jones is having so far. It's a tough position to master.

Jones has been the most surprising development to me. I had low expectations for a point guard who was a star locally but now had to scale a huge transition. He also is evincing the iron will that is required of great point guards.

Allen also invested in his development in the off-season. Went to the coaches, asked what he could do to become better defensively, went on a diet, lost a bunch of weight (I mean, they talk about it every game). He's also the unquestioned leader on this team, which is just not something we've had in a couple of years. He's really embraced that role, which is nice to see. When you add all of that up and insert a true pass-first PG, Allen was ready to take a major step forward this season. It has really been enjoyable to watch.

[sancho]

At this rate, it's hard to imagine a scenario in which we're debating Larry's future after this year

At the end of last season, I said Larry needed to energize the fan base in order to keep off the hot seat. I think that's still true. We need to be feeling excited about the future of Utah basketball by season's end. We're feeling good now, but we won't be in March if we finish 6-12 in the Pac-12 without being competitive against the top teams. The first few weeks of January will tell us a lot.

Anyone want to give me a scouting report on SDSU? I have no idea what we're looking at tomorrow.

[UTEopia]

At the end of last season, I said Larry needed to energize the fan base in order to keep off the hot seat. I think that's still true. We need to be feeling excited about the future of Utah basketball by season's end. We're feeling good now, but we won't be in March if we finish 6-12 in the Pac-12 without being competitive against the top teams. The first few weeks of January will tell us a lot.

Anyone want to give me a scouting report on SDSU? I have no idea what we're looking at tomorrow.

They are better than Kentucky.

[DrumNFeather]

At the end of last season, I said Larry needed to energize the fan base in order to keep off the hot seat. I think that's still true. We need to be feeling excited about the future of Utah basketball by season's end. We're feeling good now, but we won't be in March if we finish 6-12 in the Pac-12 without being competitive against the top teams. The first few weeks of January will tell us a lot.

Anyone want to give me a scouting report on SDSU? I have no idea what we're looking at tomorrow.

They've got Flynn, the transfer from Wazzu, who is playing well. Matt Mitchell is also on this squad...he was a guy that we recruited pretty hard a few years ago.

[sancho]

They are better than Kentucky.

Maybe. By season's end, that order will probably be reversed. I'm imagining that SDSU are at least less athletic than Kentucky.

[sancho]

Stats - SDSU has 3 players shooting above 30% from outside (three of them - Flynn, Mitchell, Shakel - are in the 40s).

They have 10 players averaging over 10 minutes per game. That's a huge rotation.

Three of those 10 are 6'10" forwards. All three of those are getting over 5 rpg. One guy - Mensah - averages 7 rpg in only 20 mpg.

Flynn is getting 5 apg and 1.5 spg with only 1.5 tpg.

They have wins over Creighton, Iowa, and BYU.

[SoCalPat]

Stats - SDSU has 3 players shooting above 30% from outside (three of them - Flynn, Mitchell, Shakel - are in the 40s).

They have 10 players averaging over 10 minutes per game. That's a huge rotation.

Three of those 10 are 6'10" forwards. All three of those are getting over 5 rpg. One guy - Mensah - averages 7 rpg in only 20 mpg.

Flynn is getting 5 apg and 1.5 spg with only 1.5 tpg.

They have wins over Creighton, Iowa, and BYU.

Tap the brakes on the MPG stat. Of those 10 players, two have played in only 9 of 11 games and a third has played in but one (but it was their most recent game, suggesting he might be coming off injury or has recently become eligible.).

Even Utah has nine players averaging 10-plus minutes per game, but four haven't played in every game.

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