Charm City Lacking in Charm - The Baltimore Riots Thread

[DrumNFeather]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/28/us/baltimore-riots/index.html

On the same day of the Funeral of Freddie Gray, an African American man who died in police custody, rioting and looting broke out across Baltimore. I watched quite a bit of it on the news yesterday and it was just a crazy scene. Cars and buildings burning, people looting stores, throwing rocks and bricks and bottles at police officers in riot gear. The Governor declared a state of emergency and the national guard had to be called in. So far 15 officers have been injured, 6 of them severely injured.

All of this comes off the heels of similar situations in other cities.

My twitter and facebook feeds have been pretty interesting, especially with folks fairly close to the action. My buddy's wife had her office close early in Baltimore yesterday, and at least two Orioles games have been canceled so far.

[Two Utes]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/28/us/baltimore-riots/index.html

On the same day of the Funeral of Freddie Gray, an African American man who died in police custody, rioting and looting broke out across Baltimore. I watched quite a bit of it on the news yesterday and it was just a crazy scene. Cars and buildings burning, people looting stores, throwing rocks and bricks and bottles at police officers in riot gear. The Governor declared a state of emergency and the national guard had to be called in. So far 15 officers have been injured, 6 of them severely injured.

All of this comes off the heels of similar situations in other cities.

My twitter and facebook feeds have been pretty interesting, especially with folks fairly close to the action. My buddy's wife had her office close early in Baltimore yesterday, and at least two Orioles games have been canceled so far.

I sympathize with the black community regarding excessive police force, but you can't have anarchy. This isn't a protest; it's full on anarchy.

I'm just glad our usually outspoken President is getting involved. O wait, that's right, he usually doesn't like to get involved in issues that belong at the state and municipal level like this.

[Two Utes]

I sympathize with the black community regarding excessive police force, but you can't have anarchy. This isn't a protest; it's full on anarchy.

I'm just glad our usually outspoken President is getting involved. O wait, that's right, he usually doesn't like to get involved in issues that belong at the state and municipal level like this.


And I love the Orioles GM comments. Apparently the reason why these people are rioting is because we have shipped their jobs to China over the past 40 years. I was under the impression that there were more riots 40 years ago than now and the reasons for the riots are issues the black community has with the police. Now that everybody walks around with a video recorder and camera we actually capture this stuff visually. (as a side note, it's interesting that we can't capture any of god's "miracles" on video).

But, I'm glad Angelos cleared that stuff up for me.

[SoCalPat]

I'm just glad our usually outspoken President is getting involved. O wait, that's right, he usually doesn't like to get involved in issues that belong at the state and municipal level like this.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obama-freddie-gray-media-baltimore

[Two Utes]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obama-freddie-gray-media-baltimore

So, the reason for the riots is because the media ignored the peaceful protests? Sounds like he's providing justification for the rioters. Great leadership.

[LA Ute]

At least one parent wasn't having it:

Mom slaps son, rips him from Baltimore riots (http://www.wbir.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/04/28/baltimore-mom-slaps-son-riot-freddie-gray/26505237/)

[LA Ute]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=21&v=xl7Q36V9pg4

[Sullyute]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=21&v=xl7Q36V9pg4

That is a very interesting take, and quite a bold one at that. I agree with most of what she says. I listened to an NPR interview this morning on the Baltimore riots. They were talking about how the Baltimore scenario is different than the other recent law enforcement problems around the country. They said that this was not about race. The mayor of Baltimore is black, the police commissioner is black, almost 50% of the police force is black, in a city that is over 50% black. So this is not your typical white police force targeting the minority black community. Blacks are the majority with majority black leadership. This is about police violence.

I do think that police have a very difficult job. They have to spend their time in the trenches with very bad people doing very bad things. It is very difficult to not take on the characteristics of the people that you spend the most time with. There are bad apples that give the majority of good police a bad name.

It is funny as I just finished the third season of 'The Wire', an HBO police drama based in Baltimore. A police major tries a bold tactic to lower crime by pushing the drug trade to a couple "free zones" where the police don't arrest, but just monitor the drug trade. It caused a great drop in over all crime, the residence had their street corners back, and local charities and health organization could concentrate their work within these "free zones" increases their effectiveness. The whole thing eventually blew up over politics, even though it was having a positive effect. I realize that this is just a TV show, but it does make you wonder if we need to try something completely different to combat crime and poverty because it doesn't appear that what we have been doing is helping much.*

*I know that violent crimes have dropped significantly from their highs in the 80's, but it is debatable as to why. I know that Freakonomics puts that on demographics (specifically birth control and legalized abortion), as there are simply less adolescent males causing problems. Maybe zero population IS the answer, my friend.

[Ma'ake]

I haven't followed the Baltimore situation very closely.

But here's a little bit of insight from within my own family: My two youngest sons went down to Houston to sell security systems, door to door, they got hooked up with some ex-missionary friends, it's not an uncommon gig for college students. (For those who may not know, my wife is African American, so my kids are bi-racial, they're essentially African American, age 23 and 20.)

After they'd been down there a couple of days, they got a sense of what was going on. Essentially, the company targets high-crime areas (which is what a security systems company would do), which means they're going into the 'hood of Houston. White kids have a harder time getting a response in those areas, which is where my kids' value for the company comes in.

Typical high-pressure door-to-door sales, but the tactics are a little over the top. "Make sure the customer can't see the bottom of the last page, where the fine print is, and just keep pushing them to just sign. After they sign, if they want to cancel they still have to pay 90% of the fee, so we get more money that way. Just... get... them... to... sign!"

My kids are fairly naïve about racial issues in different parts of the country, being raised in Utah, but they quickly figured out they were being used to penetrate an area where their friendly faces would open doors, but the whole thing seemed wrong to them. "Dad, it's like they want us to shove this stuff onto people like our grandma back in Kentucky, and after the day is over they're telling jokes and mocking the people from the neighborhoods we go into. Dad, this is unethical, it just doesn't feel right".

They both bailed out and are getting summer jobs back in Utah. I told them I'm proud of them, they have integrity and their self-respect is intact.

I think progress on racial issues has "stalled" in a lot of areas of our country. The Oklahoma fraternity incident was definitely not an isolated incident. The concentrations of dysfunctions in some of the 'hoods will require far more resource to improve, and among large numbers of whites, expectations of blacks are extremely low.

In my wife's home town I was stunned when Obama was running in '08 that a Letter to the Editor was published, but it said "I've voted Democratic my whole life, but I can't vote for Obama because he's black".

When I first heard the assertion that Obama has made race relations worse, I laughed. I'm not laughing anymore, because I think things have gotten worse, mostly because Obama's election has made it legitimate for all kinds of closet racists to rail against the brown face in the White House.

If Romney had won in 2012, I think a similar dynamic would be happening relative to Mormons.

[UtahsMrSports]

I haven't followed the Baltimore situation very closely.

But here's a little bit of insight from within my own family: My two youngest sons went down to Houston to sell security systems, door to door, they got hooked up with some ex-missionary friends, it's not an uncommon gig for college students. (For those who may not know, my wife is African American, so my kids are bi-racial, they're essentially African American, age 23 and 20.)

After they'd been down there a couple of days, they got a sense of what was going on. Essentially, the company targets high-crime areas (which is what a security systems company would do), which means they're going into the 'hood of Houston. White kids have a harder time getting a response in those areas, which is where my kids' value for the company comes in.

Typical high-pressure door-to-door sales, but the tactics are a little over the top. "Make sure the customer can't see the bottom of the last page, where the fine print is, and just keep pushing them to just sign. After they sign, if they want to cancel they still have to pay 90% of the fee, so we get more money that way. Just... get... them... to... sign!"

My kids are fairly naïve about racial issues in different parts of the country, being raised in Utah, but they quickly figured out they were being used to penetrate an area where their friendly faces would open doors, but the whole thing seemed wrong to them. "Dad, it's like they want us to shove this stuff onto people like our grandma back in Kentucky, and after the day is over they're telling jokes and mocking the people from the neighborhoods we go into. Dad, this is unethical, it just doesn't feel right".

They both bailed out and are getting summer jobs back in Utah. I told them I'm proud of them, they have integrity and their self-respect is intact.

I think progress on racial issues has "stalled" in a lot of areas of our country. The Oklahoma fraternity incident was definitely not an isolated incident. The concentrations of dysfunctions in some of the 'hoods will require far more resource to improve, and among large numbers of whites, expectations of blacks are extremely low.

In my wife's home town I was stunned when Obama was running in '08 that a Letter to the Editor was published, but it said "I've voted Democratic my whole life, but I can't vote for Obama because he's black".

When I first heard the assertion that Obama has made race relations worse, I laughed. I'm not laughing anymore, because I think things have gotten worse, mostly because Obama's election has made it legitimate for all kinds of closet racists to rail against the brown face in the White House.

If Romney had won in 2012, I think a similar dynamic would be happening relative to Mormons.

Kudos to your sons for seeing through these revolting tactics and for taking a stand against them. What an absolute disgrace of a company.

[Two Utes]

I haven't followed the Baltimore situation very closely.

But here's a little bit of insight from within my own family: My two youngest sons went down to Houston to sell security systems, door to door, they got hooked up with some ex-missionary friends, it's not an uncommon gig for college students. (For those who may not know, my wife is African American, so my kids are bi-racial, they're essentially African American, age 23 and 20.)

After they'd been down there a couple of days, they got a sense of what was going on. Essentially, the company targets high-crime areas (which is what a security systems company would do), which means they're going into the 'hood of Houston. White kids have a harder time getting a response in those areas, which is where my kids' value for the company comes in.

Typical high-pressure door-to-door sales, but the tactics are a little over the top. "Make sure the customer can't see the bottom of the last page, where the fine print is, and just keep pushing them to just sign. After they sign, if they want to cancel they still have to pay 90% of the fee, so we get more money that way. Just... get... them... to... sign!"

My kids are fairly naïve about racial issues in different parts of the country, being raised in Utah, but they quickly figured out they were being used to penetrate an area where their friendly faces would open doors, but the whole thing seemed wrong to them. "Dad, it's like they want us to shove this stuff onto people like our grandma back in Kentucky, and after the day is over they're telling jokes and mocking the people from the neighborhoods we go into. Dad, this is unethical, it just doesn't feel right".

They both bailed out and are getting summer jobs back in Utah. I told them I'm proud of them, they have integrity and their self-respect is intact.

I think progress on racial issues has "stalled" in a lot of areas of our country. The Oklahoma fraternity incident was definitely not an isolated incident. The concentrations of dysfunctions in some of the 'hoods will require far more resource to improve, and among large numbers of whites, expectations of blacks are extremely low.

In my wife's home town I was stunned when Obama was running in '08 that a Letter to the Editor was published, but it said "I've voted Democratic my whole life, but I can't vote for Obama because he's black".

When I first heard the assertion that Obama has made race relations worse, I laughed. I'm not laughing anymore, because I think things have gotten worse, mostly because Obama's election has made it legitimate for all kinds of closet racists to rail against the brown face in the White House.

If Romney had won in 2012, I think a similar dynamic would be happening relative to Mormons.

Great thoughts.

[SoCalPat]

So, the reason for the riots is because the media ignored the peaceful protests? Sounds like he's providing justification for the rioters. Great leadership.

This ain't exactly Orval Faubus blocking the door to Little Rock high schools and Eisenhower sending in the national guard. What constitutional issues are in play here that should force Washington to act?

[LA Ute]

Mug shots of the 6 cops charged show 3 white, 3 black (one of the black officers is a woman). Complicates the story a bit.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Mug shots of the 6 cops charged show 3 white, 3 black (one of the black officers is a woman). Complicates the story a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No it doesn't. This isn't about race, and never was.

Baltimore has a black mayor, a black police chief, a mostly black police force, and these police officers will be prosecuted by a black state's attorney. This isn't "a bunch of Good Ole Boys beating up on a colored boy", this is a more direct case of a situation pushed horribly out of control by some police officers who greatly overreacted to a situation which they escalated in the first place. And then they released witness statements saying the he 'appeared to be trying to hurt himself in the back of the squad car' as he was struggling to breathe and deal with his injury.

How in the world do you dislocate a person's spine? Never mind, I don't want to know.

He was arrested for carrying a pocket knife, which they claimed was a switchblade. It is no wonder that people were outraged, protested in huge numbers, and rioted in smaller numbers.

[LA Ute]

No it doesn't. This isn't about race, and never was.

:blink:

[NorthwestUteFan]

Let me rephrase that. The issue involves race, as far as race is intertwined with socioeconomic class. It is about race because mandatory minimum sentences disproportionately affect black defendants (again related to socioeconomic class). It is about race as related to availability of good jobs for people in that community (again socioeconomic class).

But the core of the issue is not strictly about racISM, or racIST cops targetting black people, and any attempt to paint it that way misses the mark.

[LA Ute]

Let me rephrase that. The issue involves race, as far as race is intertwined with socioeconomic class. It is about race because mandatory minimum sentences disproportionately affect black defendants (again related to socioeconomic class). It is about race as related to availability of good jobs for people in that community (again socioeconomic class).

But the core of the issue is not strictly about racISM, or racIST cops targetting black people, and any attempt to paint it that way misses the mark.

I don't understand how you can take that position. This crisis erupted because a black man died while in police custody. If the victim had been white we would never have heard about the incident.

Regarding that incident, this makes me wonder what on earth those cops (or someone) did, or allowed to happen, that could have caused that catastrophic injury:

It’s not easy to sever a human spine. Here’s why (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/take-sever-human-spine/)

[Rocker Ute]

I haven't followed the Baltimore situation very closely.

But here's a little bit of insight from within my own family: My two youngest sons went down to Houston to sell security systems, door to door, they got hooked up with some ex-missionary friends, it's not an uncommon gig for college students. (For those who may not know, my wife is African American, so my kids are bi-racial, they're essentially African American, age 23 and 20.)

After they'd been down there a couple of days, they got a sense of what was going on. Essentially, the company targets high-crime areas (which is what a security systems company would do), which means they're going into the 'hood of Houston. White kids have a harder time getting a response in those areas, which is where my kids' value for the company comes in.

Typical high-pressure door-to-door sales, but the tactics are a little over the top. "Make sure the customer can't see the bottom of the last page, where the fine print is, and just keep pushing them to just sign. After they sign, if they want to cancel they still have to pay 90% of the fee, so we get more money that way. Just... get... them... to... sign!"

My kids are fairly naïve about racial issues in different parts of the country, being raised in Utah, but they quickly figured out they were being used to penetrate an area where their friendly faces would open doors, but the whole thing seemed wrong to them. "Dad, it's like they want us to shove this stuff onto people like our grandma back in Kentucky, and after the day is over they're telling jokes and mocking the people from the neighborhoods we go into. Dad, this is unethical, it just doesn't feel right".

They both bailed out and are getting summer jobs back in Utah. I told them I'm proud of them, they have integrity and their self-respect is intact.

I think progress on racial issues has "stalled" in a lot of areas of our country. The Oklahoma fraternity incident was definitely not an isolated incident. The concentrations of dysfunctions in some of the 'hoods will require far more resource to improve, and among large numbers of whites, expectations of blacks are extremely low.

In my wife's home town I was stunned when Obama was running in '08 that a Letter to the Editor was published, but it said "I've voted Democratic my whole life, but I can't vote for Obama because he's black".

When I first heard the assertion that Obama has made race relations worse, I laughed. I'm not laughing anymore, because I think things have gotten worse, mostly because Obama's election has made it legitimate for all kinds of closet racists to rail against the brown face in the White House.

If Romney had won in 2012, I think a similar dynamic would be happening relative to Mormons.

I'm assuming this is a company that rhymes with Mivint and I'm not shocked. Kid in my neighborhood did the same thing but up in Alaska targeting poor people and just getting them to sign.

Glad your kids were wise enough to see the light.

I'll be honest, my sheltered life in Utah had me believing that overt racism and groups like the KKK were mostly dead until I served a mission in Texas. People spoke openly just like you described in that letter to the editor and most neighborhoods were still segregated (White, Black and Hispanic). I drove past every day in one area Kustom Kar Kovers and the Koffee Kup Kafe in another. The KKK in large numbers routinely marched down MLK Blvd in south San Antonio.

I was shocked at the time that not only did that stuff survive but seemed to flourish and certainly people acted with impunity when it came to racism.

My conclusion at the time was the people of metropolitan Utah were far less racist as a whole than the people of central Texas. Sad.

[mUUser]

Seems as good a place as any without starting a new thread......

Black Bloc anarchists riot, burn, shatter windows, incite violence and attack innocent bystanders at progressive protests against vocal Trump supporter Milo Yiannopoulos at Cal Berkeley. These protests are beginning to look like a broken record.......


http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Seems as good a place as any without starting a new thread......

Black Bloc anarchists riot, burn, shatter windows, incite violence and attack innocent bystanders at progressive protests against vocal Trump supporter Milo Yiannopoulos at Cal Berkeley. These protests are beginning to look like a broken record.......


http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/

I find it interesting that people like Devil Dog automatically identify these people as Democrats. Same as the day of the inauguration. These rioters have no political objective outside of just creating chaos. If they were Democrats, they'd be able to realize that their actions play right into the hands of Bannon. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked to eventually learn that they were plants to force put in by the administration just to force the issue. Like the post in the Trump thread referring to the immigration Executive Order as a "shock event," something like this on a larger scale or at least a consistent scale could allow Bannon a higher, more direct authority to strong arm his way into leading his own army.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Devildog]

I find it interesting that people like Devil Dog automatically identify these people as Democrats. Same as the day of the inauguration. These rioters have no political objective outside of just creating chaos. If they were Democrats, they'd be able to realize that their actions play right into the hands of Bannon. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked to eventually learn that they were plants to force put in by the administration just to force the issue. Like the post in the Trump thread referring to the immigration Executive Order as a "shock event," something like this on a larger scale or at least a consistent scale could allow Bannon a higher, more direct authority to strong arm his way into leading his own army.


Could you possibly be more of a conspiracy theorist? You realize those fanatical right wingers often hang out in Berkeley waiting for spontaneous opportunities to raise Hell within far left protests.

[Devildog]

Hey Dwight... if these fools waited for right wing protest marches... well they would never get to raise Hell.

[Devildog]

Oh and... if the right wing chooses violent protest in this country... look the fawk out. Because you delicate little snowflakes are not going to be ready for what comes down. Please keep pushing bitches... please. I dare you to throw out the rule of law in this country. Please... have at it. You would absolutely hate the result. I am so sick of the delicate left.

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww59/RuggedH2/lame_zpsuhjelegj.png (http://s705.photobucket.com/user/RuggedH2/media/lame_zpsuhjelegj.png.html)

[NorthwestUteFan]

Oh and... if the right wing chooses violent protest in this country... look the fawk out. Because you delicate little snowflakes are not going to be ready for what comes down. Please keep pushing bitches... please. I dare you to throw out the rule of law in this country. Please... have at it. You would absolutely hate the result. I am so sick of the delicate left.



You sound like a conspiracy theorist.

Just remember to cup their balls in that special way you always do and you will do just fine.

[LA Ute]

If they were Democrats, they'd be able to realize that their actions play right into the hands of Bannon.

I think you're assuming a lot of intelligence and careful thinking on the part of young progressive activists. Also, on your conspiracy theory, I don't think you have explored it thoroughly. There must be a Putin angle!

OK, I've tweaked you enough. Whoever did this, it was deplorable. I was really outraged at the video of the young woman getting pepper-sprayed by one of those jerks.


Self Defense Only. You may purchase, possess, and use pepper spray as long as you do so only for self-defense purposes. ... Using it in non-self defense situations will subject you to a misdemeanor or felony charge, with a possible sentence of 16 months, two, or three years, a fine of up to $1,000, or both.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/state-felony-laws/can-you-legally-carry-pepper-spray-in-californ

[Diehard Ute]

I think you're assuming a lot of intelligence and careful thinking on the part of young progressive activists. Also, on your conspiracy theory, I don't think you have explored it thoroughly. There must be a Putin angle!

OK, I've tweaked you enough. Whoever did this, it was deplorable. I was really outraged at the video of the young woman getting pepper-sprayed by one of those jerks.



http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/state-felony-laws/can-you-legally-carry-pepper-spray-in-californ

We've charged a couple people for spraying people here when it wasn't a self defense situation, although it's only a Class B misdemeanor in Utah


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[Devildog]

You sound like a conspiracy theorist.

Just remember to cup their balls in that special way you always do and you will do just fine.

You like that do you? Did I not include the Russians enough?

[mUUser]

......In fact, I wouldn't be shocked to eventually learn that they were plants to force put in by the administration just to force the issue......
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, I'm prediction the world's end. Up is down, and down is up. DD is thinking clearly late at night, and Dwight has gone bye-bye.:blink::blink:

[NorthwestUteFan]

You like that do you? Did I not include the Russians enough?
Of course! Who doesn't? Although I know you prefer Rough Hummer's...

Seriously, move to a left coast state or Colorado. You could really use some weed to help your PTSD.

[mUUser]

Another night of progressive protests. Another night of violence. NYU.

http://nypost.com/2017/02/02/protesters-storm-nyu-over-conservative-speakers-seminar/

[Devildog]

Of course! Who doesn't? Although I know you prefer Rough Hummer's...

Seriously, move to a left coast state or Colorado. You could really use some weed to help your PTSD.

Good advice NWU. I earned my PTSD the old fashioned way. I'm proud of that shit brother. Don't even take any meds for that man. I grew up in Denver... so I'm already past pot my man. I do love my whiskey though.

[Devildog]

That is a very interesting take, and quite a bold one at that. I agree with most of what she says.

Did you really just spend half that long ass point of view speaking about a TV show? Jesus... please shut up.

[chrisrenrut]

Did you really just spend half that long ass point of view speaking about a TV show? Jesus... please shut up.

Sober up, DD. You're being a dick. Also, you realize that post was from almost a year ago?

[Devildog]

Sober up, DD. You're being a dick. Also, you realize that post was from almost a year ago?

Ok Chris. You are probably right.

[LA Ute]

By a very liberal* writer.

Milo Yiannopoulos Tested Progressives—and They Failed

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/everyone-has-a-right-to-free-speech-even-milo/515565/

*OK, progressive

The editorial board of the L.A. Times, a local right-wing rag here, agrees:

Editorial: The No Free Speech Movement at Berkeley

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-milo-berkeley-20170203-story.html

[mUUser]

Violent protestors send college professor to hospital.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/03/04/protesters-at-middlebury-college-shout-down-speaker-attack-him-and-a-professor/?utm_term=.8ba7df04d7e8

[Rocker Ute]

Violent protestors send college professor to hospital.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/03/04/protesters-at-middlebury-college-shout-down-speaker-attack-him-and-a-professor/?utm_term=.8ba7df04d7e8

The new tyranny...

[Devildog]

Should we start a new thread about the left's violent reactions to free speech? Tolerance is no longer the high moral ground of the "progressives".

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-supporters-idUSKBN16B0O8

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww59/RuggedH2/trump_zpskqgeybbd.jpeg (http://s705.photobucket.com/user/RuggedH2/media/trump_zpskqgeybbd.jpeg.html)