The role of the LDS Church in Utah politics

[U-Ute]

Recently, Carl Wimmer, who was a state representative here, posted this interesting entry on his blog:

http://www.anamericandreamrevealed.com/2015/03/the-role-of-lds-church-in-utahs-politics.html

Nothing particularly ground breaking in most if it, but this section caught my attention:


What bothered me most was when my local ecclesiastical leader contacted me and attempted to persuade me to vote for the bill as well. When I asked him, “Who from the Church headquarters had asked you to contact me?” he simply confirmed that he had been asked, but would not say by whom.

The night HB116 was debated for final passage was insane. There was intensity I had never felt before or after on the house floor. It was the intensity that comes only from political bullying, and it killed me to know that this time the “bully” was my own church.

I was approached by a younger representative who was on the verge of tears. He expressed to me that he had just gotten out of a “PPI meeting” and asked if I had had mine yet. I knew what he meant and I was sorry for him.

A legitimate “PPI” or “Personal Priesthood Interview” is conducted within the confines of the LDS Church. It is an ecclesiastical meeting between an LDS leader and a male member under their “authority.” When I was an Elders Quorum President, I held PPI’s with the elders under my charge. A PPI is used to check on the spiritual welfare of the man being interviewed, and to make sure they are on the “straight and narrow.” But that is not what this legislator meant…

What he had just experienced was an intense, closed-door meeting with select members of house leadership and the LDS Church lobbyists who made it abundantly clear that when HB116 came up for a vote, he was to support the bill, period.


Lobby all you want on the hill, but using the internal connections of the church to the point of calling local bishops in to harass someone is pretty low brow in my book. All that was missing was a Joy-zee accent and a baseball bat.

[Sullyute]

Funny, a couple years ago something like this would make me crazy, now i just laugh and think, politics as usual. The church has a mission and they will do what they have to to accomplish it. Don't have a problem with it now. I have a bigger problem with elected officials succumbing to any lobbying efforts over their own conscience. Do what is right let the consequence follow...

[UtahsMrSports]

While im not saying this should be dismissed as nonsense, i would advise folks to consider the source and take this blog post with a grain of salt.

This is coming from a man who had a pretty heavily publicized departure from the lds church. I find that stories from folks after a split in anything in life are generally embellished.

[LA Ute]

While im not saying this should be dismissed as nonsense, i would advise folks to consider the source and take this blog post with a grain of salt.

This is coming from a man who had a pretty heavily publicized departure from the lds church. I find that stories from folks after a split in anything in life are generally embellished.

I don't follow Utah politics so this is all foreign to me. Isn't he a Utah County guy? And he left the LDS Church? I assume his political career is over now.


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[Diehard Ute]

I don't follow Utah politics so this is all foreign to me. Isn't he a Utah County guy? And he left the LDS Church? I assume his political career is over now.


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Nope. He was from Herriman

He left the legislature to run for federal office but got thumped before the actual election.

He then announced he's been hired to lead the Nevada Republican Party only to have them say they hadn't hired him.

He's now a school resource police officer in Gunnison

He was as right wing as it gets (and likely still is, he's just not LDS anymore)


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Funny, a couple years ago something like this would make me crazy, now i just laugh and think, politics as usual. The church has a mission and they will do what they have to to accomplish it. Don't have a problem with it now. I have a bigger problem with elected officials succumbing to any lobbying efforts over their own conscience. Do what is right let the consequence follow...

It is pretty tough to "do the right thing, and let the consequence follow" when the very thing that informs many of your thoughts and beliefs on morality, that being the priesthood leadership of the church, is also strongarming you to vote one way or other. Different legislators have told stories of these "PPIs" with church lobbyists. More than a few came away worried about what sermed to be veiled threats against their temple recommends.


While im not saying this should be dismissed as nonsense, i would advise folks to consider the source and take this blog post with a grain of salt.

This is coming from a man who had a pretty heavily publicized departure from the lds church. I find that stories from folks after a split in anything in life are generally embellished.

He was fully TBM at the time.

The legislator who wrote the recent anti-discrimination (based on sexual preference) bill in Utah said that he had a meeting with Dallin Oaks, and elder Oaks' request, and was requested /instructed to table the bill. Nearly 30 months later this last January/February he church held their news conference speaking out against discrimination, and suddenly this same bill was green-lighted.

[UtahsMrSports]

He was fully TBM at the time.

The legislator who wrote the recent anti-discrimination (based on sexual preference) bill in Utah said that he had a meeting with Dallin Oaks, and elder Oaks' request, and was requested /instructed to table the bill. Nearly 30 months later this last January/February he church held their news conference speaking out against discrimination, and suddenly this same bill was green-lighted.

While he was a TBM at the time of the occurence, he is not now, at the time of the telling of the story. Also, and Im just going to throw this out there, but he has had a noticeable lack of publicity lately. Why now? Didn't he have many times to tell this before now? Doesn't really seem like something you'd sit on if true.

I am not saying that 50 E. North Temple does not have influence in our government, but I also am going to need more than Carl Wimmer to believe that they are bullying people into making the "right" choice.

[Diehard Ute]

While he was a TBM at the time of the occurence, he is not now, at the time of the telling of the story. Also, and Im just going to throw this out there, but he has had a noticeable lack of publicity lately. Why now? Didn't he have many times to tell this before now? Doesn't really seem like something you'd sit on if true.

I am not saying that 50 E. North Temple does not have influence in our government, but I also am going to need more than Carl Wimmer to believe that they are bullying people into making the "right" choice.

Influence is a rather light way of putting it.

There's no reason to deny that the LDS church had huge sway when it comes to any legislation. Especially dealing with things like alcohol.


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[Mormon Red Death]

Whatever happened to render unto the things that are Caesars...?

[Rocker Ute]

The state legislature is an interesting group of people. It is heavy in the 'pretend to be Mormon when it benefits me' crowd but who live completely opposite lifestyles that would be abhorrent to most of its Mormon constituency.

Without going into details I had some exposure to this and was astounded by its depth and breadth and near universality among these people.

I don't want to be overly dramatic about this but if I were to generalize about the Utah Republican Party I would say they resemble gaddianton robbers more than disciples of Christ. There are a number of them that are just like Shurtleff and Swallow and that is exactly why they all sold them down the river. Scrutiny on S&S means no scrutiny on them.

And I would have at the time counted Wimmer as one of this group.

In short, vote democrat in Utah.

[Diehard Ute]

The state legislature is an interesting group of people. It is heavy in the 'pretend to be Mormon when it benefits me' crowd but who live completely opposite lifestyles that would be abhorrent to most of its Mormon constituency.

Without going into details I had some exposure to this and was astounded by its depth and breadth and near universality among these people.

I don't want to be overly dramatic about this but if I were to generalize about the Utah Republican Party I would say they resemble gaddianton robbers more than disciples of Christ. There are a number of them that are just like Shurtleff and Swallow and that is exactly why they all sold them down the river. Scrutiny on S&S means no scrutiny on them.

And I would have at the time counted Wimmer as one of this group.

In short, vote democrat in Utah.

The reality is most of those who are involved in politics in Utah are extremists who will promise anything to get their power.

The recent revelations about the way the DABC is (mis)managed goes to that point. The legislators in Utah repeatedly talk about small government and rail against the perceived threat of an over aggressive federal government, yet they do the exact same thing on the state level.

They talk out of both sides of their mouth, spouting freedom of choice on things like guns yet harshly controlling things like alcohol or car sales.


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[UtahsMrSports]

The state legislature is an interesting group of people. It is heavy in the 'pretend to be Mormon when it benefits me' crowd but who live completely opposite lifestyles that would be abhorrent to most of its Mormon constituency.

Without going into details I had some exposure to this and was astounded by its depth and breadth and near universality among these people.

I don't want to be overly dramatic about this but if I were to generalize about the Utah Republican Party I would say they resemble gaddianton robbers more than disciples of Christ. There are a number of them that are just like Shurtleff and Swallow and that is exactly why they all sold them down the river. Scrutiny on S&S means no scrutiny on them.

And I would have at the time counted Wimmer as one of this group.

In short, vote democrat in Utah.

meh. They just have a different letter by their name. It would be no different morally if they had such a stronghold on the state. Its politics, and the type of people that are drawn to it.

[UtahsMrSports]

Influence is a rather light way of putting it.

There's no reason to deny that the LDS church had huge sway when it comes to any legislation. Especially dealing with things like alcohol.


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Fair point, though I think there is a wide range of opinions on the magnitude of the influence.

[concerned]

while it is true that the Church exercises overwhelming influence in the Legislature, there are instances where even the Church has been rebuffed. The Church very much wanted the Legislature to approve the immigration compact, not the least of reasons because would lead to humane treatment of illegal immigrants, many of whom are converts or otherwise members, and keep their families together, and because it generally is the compassionate, humane and Christian thing to do.

Church officials went to legslators, including Wimmer and others whose names I cant remember, and were rebuffed. They wanted a law like the Arizona law. The compact never passed.

[LA Ute]

while it is true that the Church exercises overwhelming influence in the Legislature, there are instances where even the Church has been rebuffed. The Church very much wanted the Legislature to approve the immigration compact, not the least of reasons because would lead to humane treatment of illegal immigrants, many of whom are converts or otherwise members, and keep their families together, and because it generally is the compassionate, humane and Christian thing to do.

Church officials went to legslators, including Wimmer and others whose names I cant remember, and were rebuffed. They wanted a law like the Arizona law. The compact never passed.

Although the church's leaders were very opposed to the New Deal I think FDR carried the state by a landslide every time he ran.

[NorthwestUteFan]

while it is true that the Church exercises overwhelming influence in the Legislature, there are instances where even the Church has been rebuffed. The Church very much wanted the Legislature to approve the immigration compact, not the least of reasons because would lead to humane treatment of illegal immigrants, many of whom are converts or otherwise members, and keep their families together, and because it generally is the compassionate, humane and Christian thing to do.

Church officials went to legslators, including Wimmer and others whose names I cant remember, and were rebuffed. They wanted a law like the Arizona law. The compact never passed.

That is reason number a gabillion to vote for the minority party (in whichever state you live). Or at very least vote for the candidate rather than the party.

Does anybody know a good book discussing the Mormon church and politics over the last 60 years or so? It seems they swung right with Joseph F. Smith, left/liberal (except for the topic of race) with McKay, and then extreme hard-core right-wing with Benson. We are still feeling the effects of Benson's John Birch Society leanings today, and he died 22+ years ago.

Who was the last Q12 member who was a registered Democrat? I think it was James Faust. The likelihood of a registered Democratic rising anywhere near the Q12 today would be almost unimaginable.

Rocker can breathe a sigh of relief now...

[UtahsMrSports]

That is reason number a gabillion to vote for the minority party (in whichever state you live). Or at very least vote for the candidate rather than the party.

Does anybody know a good book discussing the Mormon church and politics over the last 60 years or so? It seems they swung right with Joseph F. Smith, left/liberal (except for the topic of race) with McKay, and then extreme hard-core right-wing with Benson. We are still feeling the effects of Benson's John Birch Society leanings today, and he died 22+ years ago.

Who was the last Q12 member who was a registered Democrat? I think it was James Faust. The likelihood of a registered Democratic rising anywhere near the Q12 today would be almost unimaginable.

Rocker can breathe a sigh of relief now...

http://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/1877438-155/top-mormon-leaders-mostly-republican-two

[Sullyute]

The likelihood of a registered Democratic rising anywhere near the Q12 today would be almost unimaginable.

:( This actually makes me sad to think about. I would guess that this contributes to the insular thinking that seems to happen in the close ranks of Church leadership. Working in an echo chamber makes it hard for people to have perspective and understanding for others; which is something that leaders of a 15 million member worldwide church needs lots of.

[concerned]

I could be wrong, but I think Marlin Jensen is a registered Demo.

[Two Utes]

That is reason number a gabillion to vote for the minority party (in whichever state you live). Or at very least vote for the candidate rather than the party.

Does anybody know a good book discussing the Mormon church and politics over the last 60 years or so? It seems they swung right with Joseph F. Smith, left/liberal (except for the topic of race) with McKay, and then extreme hard-core right-wing with Benson. We are still feeling the effects of Benson's John Birch Society leanings today, and he died 22+ years ago.

Who was the last Q12 member who was a registered Democrat? I think it was James Faust. The likelihood of a registered Democratic rising anywhere near the Q12 today would be almost unimaginable.

Rocker can breathe a sigh of relief now...

Incorrect. They swung right when the counter culture influence increased in the 60s. And they certainly weren't liberal during the Mckay tenure. Before the counterculture (Mcgovernites), both parties were fairly conservative on social issues and so it was easier for Mormons to vote for either party.

[wally]

Incorrect. They swung right when the counter culture influence increased in the 60s. And they certainly weren't liberal during the Mckay tenure. Before the counterculture (Mcgovernites), both parties were fairly conservative on social issues and so it was easier for Mormons to vote for either party.

This is what I always assumed. Social issues have changed massively since the 60s, and naturally, politicians staked claim to either side of each issue to leverage to their advantage. Politicians are slimy, in general. Those who aren't flame out or become slimy. I had a boss who said that "the first thing that ought to disqualify someone from running for office, is the fact that they want to."

[NorthwestUteFan]

Incorrect. They swung right when the counter culture influence increased in the 60s. And they certainly weren't liberal during the Mckay tenure. Before the counterculture (Mcgovernites), both parties were fairly conservative on social issues and so it was easier for Mormons to vote for either party.

That is a good point. We can probably point to Ernest Wilkinson and his Honor Code Gestapo at byu-Provo for leading that change.

[NorthwestUteFan]

:( This actually makes me sad to think about. I would guess that this contributes to the insular thinking that seems to happen in the close ranks of Church leadership. Working in an echo chamber makes it hard for people to have perspective and understanding for others; which is something that leaders of a 15 million member worldwide church needs lots of.

The recent Mormon Stories interview of Gina Colvin was interesting. (Gina Colvin is a lecturer/professor in New Zealand, runs the Rational Faiths blog and podcast, and has her own blog at kiwimormon). She describes being astonished hawkish, pro-America-first statements by Pres Hinckley in General Conference immediately after 9/11.

For a worldwide church, they certainly seem blind to the feelings of people in other countries who are nervous about (what they believe to be) American imperial hegemony.

[Two Utes]

That is a good point. We can probably point to Ernest Wilkinson and his Honor Code Gestapo at byu-Provo for leading that change.

Yes we can.

[LA Ute]

The recent Mormon Stories interview of Gina Colvin was interesting. (Gina Colvin is a lecturer/professor in New Zealand, runs the Rational Faiths blog and podcast, and has her own blog at kiwimormon). She describes being astonished hawkish, pro-America-first statements by Pres Hinckley in General Conference immediately after 9/11.

For a worldwide church, they certainly seem blind to the feelings of people in other countries who are nervous about (what they believe to be) American imperial hegemony.

Do you mean this GBH talk?

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2003/04/war-and-peace?lang=eng

It's hard to see this talk as containing "hawkish, pro-America-first statements." It's the only one I know of that he gave referring to the post 9-11 military actions.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I was just quoting Gina Colvin. I think she was most upset by Pres Hinckley saying "We are going to follow the President (Bush) on this". The jingoistic part may have been provided by ex-pats in her ward in Taiwan. I half listened to it while I cooked breakfast for the family on Sat, and probably missed her statement. However her larger point remains, that many faithful Mormons around the world (and even in Utah) do not support actions that (from their perspective) appears to be American exceptionalism.

Speaking of that talk, in hindsight the thing that most disturbed me, on the Eve of Iraq invasion, was the fact that he seemed completely baffled as to what would happen. That left me confused because at the time I half expected the Prophet of the Lord to calm and comfort us on the dawn of Armageddon, or to tell us 'this is not the final battle before the Second Coming of Jesus'.

That was my own fault for believing all of the apocalyptic statements by church leaders, teachers, seminary instructors, etc...

[LA Ute]

I was just quoting Gina Colvin. I think she was most upset by Pres Hinckley saying "We are going to follow the President (Bush) on this". The jingoistic part may have been provided by ex-pats in her ward in Taiwan. I half listened to it while I cooked breakfast for the family on Sat, and probably missed her statement. However her larger point remains, that many faithful Mormons around the world (and even in Utah) do not support actions that (from their perspective) appears to be American exceptionalism.

Speaking of that talk, in hindsight the thing that most disturbed me, on the Eve of Iraq invasion, was the fact that he seemed completely baffled as to what would happen. That left me confused because at the time I half expected the Prophet of the Lord to calm and comfort us on the dawn of Armageddon, or to tell us 'this is not the final battle before the Second Coming of Jesus'.

That was my own fault for believing all of the apocalyptic statements by church leaders, teachers, seminary instructors, etc...

We don't have an eye roll smiley. Otherwise I'd be tempted! ;)


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[NorthwestUteFan]

We don't have an eye roll smiley. Otherwise I'd be tempted! ;)


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Easy for you. You are a white, male, Republican, stake priesthood leader who pays a significant amount of tithing. You are the very definition of the In-Crowd. You exhibit all of the Sure Signs of Godliness.

It is also possible for reasonable people with a different perspective to conclude that the Book of Mormon's extensive teaching of the Pride Cycle actually shows that America has fallen off the edge of the cliff and God will soon punish them the way he did the Mulekites, Jaredites, and Nephites. And that 9/11 should be a cautionary tale.

I am not saying these are my ideas, but just that they are reasonable and are doctrinally supported.

[NorthwestUteFan]

And it is fascinating to me that the polygamous, blood-atonement movement that came West with Brigham Young turned into a hawkish, pro-war religion, while the anti-polygamy group who remained in Nauvoo and became the RLDS/Community of Christ grew into an anti-war, peaceful pacifism religion. This is despite the identical foundational roots.

The paradox is intriguing.

[SoCalPat]

Although the church's leaders were very opposed to the New Deal I think FDR carried the state by a landslide every time he ran.

Quickie research shows this is largely correct. Truman and LBJ's wins in '48 and '64 were decisive, but lagged behind FDR's.

[LA Ute]

Quickie research shows this is largely correct. Truman and LBJ's wins in '48 and '64 were decisive, but lagged behind FDR's.

But I should add -- that was back when the issues were economic. In about 1976, when the Age of Reagan began, Utah stopped being bipartisan. Prior to that, it seemed that for a long time there was always one Democratic U.S. Senator and one Republican from Utah. Same with the two congressmen Utah then had. I was very involved in 1976 and was what was then considered a mainstream Republican in Utah. The right wing took over the GOP in '76 and they were generally insufferable. It was an unpleasant time.