A Believer Thread

[scottie]

I just saw it as a whimsical video that made me laugh while sending a very positive message - that young men can see beauty in modestly dressed young women, and actually admire that. I don't see anything about stereotypical dress, just some guys having fun talking about a valid principle.

I'm not a fan of the "Girls with integrity are hard to find these days" line.

[LA Ute]

I'm not a fan of the "Girls with integrity are hard to find these days" line.

I agree, that was not artfully worded. That's what happens when amateurs put out uncorrelated material, I guess. ;)

[LA Ute]

I'm often leery of this type of work, but this piece taught me a lot and answered a (minor) question I've had for years:

Once Again: Joseph Smith, Richard Dawkins, and the Language of Translation

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/once-again-joseph-smith-richard-dawkins-and-the-language-of-translation/

I still wonder why Joseph and those who helped him didn't use completely correct English grammar (lots of the "ye's" are wrong, for example), but that's a niggling concern for me.

[LA Ute]

Highly recommended. I can't watch this without thinking of Moses, Chapter 1 (one of my favorite chapters in all the LDS scriptures):

The Known Universe, by the American Museum of Natural History



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U#t=369

It also makes me think of this Dieter Uchtdorf line (http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/you-matter-to-him?lang=eng): "This is a paradox of man: compared to God, man is nothing; yet we are everything to God."

[tooblue]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/lifestyle/57506814-80/mormon-nephites-book-comes.html.csp


If you’re one of those people who thinks the precise color of the donkey Jesus rode into Jerusalem is a deal-breaking factoid, I have a hard time not suspecting that you’re an obsessive dumb ass, never mind actually loving you.

That was rude, I know. But it does aptly illustrate my struggle. When it comes to definitive proof of any religious text, I’m more of a skeptical anthropologist. I don’t completely trust anything involving human beings, including scripture.

Actually, make that especially scripture. It doesn’t take much reading of any religious tome to start wondering if there isn’t sometimes a line between being a prophet of God and just plain nuts.

I'm not a huge fan of Kirby but I found his recent offering fun.

[LA Ute]

"Never be frightened at your own faint-heartedness in attaining love. Don’t be frightened overmuch even at your evil actions. I am sorry I can say nothing more consoling to you, for love in action is a harsh and dreadful thing compared with love in dreams. Love in dreams is greedy for immediate action, rapidly performed and in the sight of all. Men will even give their lives if only the ordeal does not last long but is soon over, with all looking on and applauding as though on the stage. But active love is labour and fortitude, and for some people too, perhaps, a complete science. But I predict that just when you see with horror that in spite of all your efforts you are getting farther from your goal instead of nearer to it- at that very moment I predict that you will reach it and behold clearly the miraculous power of the Lord who has been all the time loving and mysteriously guiding you."

--Father Zossima in The Brothers Karamazov.

[Scorcho]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/04/10/301432378/gospel-of-jesus-wife-papyrus-not-a-forgery-harvard-says

well of course Jesus was married, we learned this when he noted that he suffered all manor of afflicitions.

:rimshot:

[LA Ute]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S3TI4bYerU

[Scorcho]

about 11 P.M. last night I had the realization that last night was the anniversary of Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane (at least I think that is correct in the timeline). It was kind of a peaceful/cool moment for me to think about that for a moment. It reminded me that Gethsemane means Olive Press or wine press and just as all of the juices is squeezed out of a grape or olive in a press, Christ was essentially squeezed to the point of blood coming out of his pores.

“I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me” (Isaiah 63:3).

[LA Ute]

about 11 P.M. last night I had the realization that last night was the anniversary of Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane (at least I think that is correct in the timeline). It was kind of a peaceful/cool moment for me to think about that for a moment. It reminded me that Gethsemane means Olive Press or wine press and just as all of the juices is squeezed out of a grape or olive in a press, Christ was essentially squeezed to the point of blood coming out of his pores.

“I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me” (Isaiah 63:3).

Love that Isaiah verse. I love thinking about the Atonement too, and had some of the same moments myself last night.

[LA Ute]

Major New Study of Religion Has Much to Say About Mormons (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/major-new-study-of-religion-has-much-to-say-about-mormons)

[Applejack]

Major New Study of Religion Has Much to Say About Mormons (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/major-new-study-of-religion-has-much-to-say-about-mormons)

Is 2010 new?

[LA Ute]

Is 2010 new?

You got me. I saw that on Facebook and just dropped it here without checking the date. D'oh.

[LA Ute]

Old news, but interesting.

LDS Church buys farmland, Haun's Mill, Far West, Kirtland property from Community of Christ (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865555292/LDS-Church-buys-farmland-Hauns-Mill-Far-West-Kirtland-property-from-Community-of-Christ.html)

[DrumNFeather]

I found this post to be very good: http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2014/06/false-choices-and-fence-holes/

That there are holes in his argument, I have no doubt, but nevertheless the post resonated with me.

[LA Ute]

I found this post to be very good: http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2014/06/false-choices-and-fence-holes/

That there are holes in his argument, I have no doubt, but nevertheless the post resonated with me.

With me too.

[LA Ute]

Interesting perspective here:

“Cosmos” and Christianity (or any religion, for that matter)
Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/peterenns/2014/06/cosmos-and-christianity-or-any-religion-for-that-matter/#ixzz34MwBhxJA

[LA Ute]

So, did you watch cosmos? I didn't even know it was on. Ever since I got cable a year ago, I have no idea what's on tv. I just click the guide to see if there are interesting sports or moves. I used to occasionally watch pbs; now I don't know what channel pbs is.

Anyway, I feel guilty that astronomy is not more interesting to me. Such a grand science, full of abstract ideas and theories, but I just can't get into it.

I am like you. I didn't even know it was on. I would like to see it, however.

[Diehard Ute]

I am like you. I didn't even know it was on. I would like to see it, however.

It's on Bluray now

[NorthwestUteFan]

So, did you watch cosmos? I didn't even know it was on. Ever since I got cable a year ago, I have no idea what's on tv. I just click the guide to see if there are interesting sports or moves. I used to occasionally watch pbs; now I don't know what channel pbs is.

Anyway, I feel guilty that astronomy is not more interesting to me. Such a grand science, full of abstract ideas and theories, but I just can't get into it.

Cosmos is fabulous. I highly recommend it. Disregard the fact that it was on Fox and was produced by Seth 'Family Guy' McFarlane. It was written by Steven Soter and Ann Druyan (Carl Sagan's wife), and narrated by Neil DeGrasse-Tyson, who is engaging and informative and pulls off the sexy-ass mustache look like nobody's business. I felt the Spirit while watching every episode.

Every other show on TV is Stanford*, while Cosmos is awesomeness defined.

(* or should that be Duke? One never can tell)

[Applejack]

Hey, now. Apples and oranges.

Here's a Stanford nugget:

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/03/09/1046687/

Wait, aren't you a UNC guy? If so, I'm not sure you should be mocking schools for creating a list of easy classes.

[Brian]

Anyone have a recommendation for accessible books on theology?

[Viking]

Twenty years ago today, the woman who raised me passed away.

Her grandmother is one of the principal sources for the Martin and Willie handcart company accounts.
She was a tough woman. I went on a mission because of her. She was diagnosed with cancer two weeks after I went into the MTC. She promised me shed be alive when I returned. I didn't want to stay on my mission but I knew I needed to stay, for her.

When i returned two years later, she was ravaged with three forms of cancer and was hanging on for life. I had to be rushed from the airport to see her.

She died a few days later.

I am not what youd call a believer in religion, but I believe in people and their inherent goodness.

Thank god for a woman named Dorothy, whom I miss and believe in every day.

[LA Ute]

This thread's for believers in any faith, so here's a Youtube about a believer -- Bono.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOQClgNRoPc#t=138

[Sullyute]

I am not what youd call a believer in religion, but I believe in people and their inherent goodness.

Viking, I missed this post. Very touching. Thanks for sharing.

[LA Ute]

I've pre-ordered this and look forward to reading it:

http://www.amazon.com/Crucible-Doubt-Terryl-Givens-ebook/dp/B00MI3VWV8/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

1215

[DrumNFeather]

I've pre-ordered this and look forward to reading it:

http://www.amazon.com/Crucible-Doubt-Terryl-Givens-ebook/dp/B00MI3VWV8/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

1215

I've read parts of The God Who Weeps. I find their approach resonates with me quite a bit. Times and Seasons has a review and some good comments including a point of clarification by the Givens' on one of the main sticking points of the book: http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2014/08/book-review-the-crucible-of-doubt/

[Two Utes]

Alpine is just like Hilldale

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oartIE7rKuM

Discuss.

[LA Ute]

Alpine is just like Hilldale

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oartIE7rKuM

Discuss.

My wife was in Alpine last week on a family errand. She'd never been there before and was impressed, in the same way one might be impressed by visiting Stepford.

I think the stake mentioned in that Youtube is somewhere in SL County, though.

[concerned]

My wife was in Alpine last week on a family errand. She'd never been there before and was impressed, in the same way one might be impressed by visiting Stepford.

I think the stake mentioned in that Youtube is somewhere in SL County, though.

Yikes. Lone Peak is in Alpine though.

[Scratch]

Yikes. Lone Peak is in Alpine though.

Lone Peak stake is in Sandy, oddly enough. You can be positive that wasn't shot in Alpine because the video contains, um, "diversity" never before seen in Alpine.

[concerned]

Lone Peak stake is in Sandy, oddly enough. You can be positive that wasn't shot in Alpine because the video contains, um, "diversity" never before seen in Alpine.

two Lone Peaks? no wonder they seem like Dr. Jeckyl and Dr. Jeckyl.

[Diehard Ute]

Lone Peak Hospital is on State and about 120th South...in Salt Lake County. Makes no sense to me.

[chrisrenrut]

I didn't watch the video, but yes. All of suburban America is the same.

Lone Peak is in Salt Lake County. Lone Peak high school is in North Utah county serving Highland and Alpine, which is probably why most people think of those areas when they hear Lone Peak.

Hiking to Loan Peak is tough but amazing. Once you get up towards the top, you could swear you are in Yosemite with all the granite and stark cliffs.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Alpine is just like Hilldale

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oartIE7rKuM

Discuss.

This little ditty is exactly what's wrong with the church's current approach to modesty. "If only you could see what I can see, you'd know why I need your modesty." Modesty shouldn't be so one sided. The ideas behind modern day modesty would have fit nicely in the Law of Moses. What this video does reveal is that maybe one of the biggest challenges for the youth in the church moving forward is dancing to a beat. Awful.


Lone Peak stake is in Sandy, oddly enough. You can be positive that wasn't shot in Alpine because the video contains, um, "diversity" never before seen in Alpine.


two Lone Peaks? no wonder they seem like Dr. Jeckyl and Dr. Jeckyl.


Lone Peak is in Salt Lake County. Lone Peak high school is in North Utah county serving Highland and Alpine, which is probably why most people think of those areas when they hear Lone Peak.

Hiking to Loan Peak is tough but amazing. Once you get up towards the top, you could swear you are in Yosemite with all the granite and stark cliffs.

This wasn't an issue until those jackasses in Highland decided to name their high school after a landmark outside their jurisdiction. Speaking of Highland, I grew up in the Highland stake, which is in Sugarhouse, which I never really thought much about until people on my mission started asking if I liked living in Utah County. :wuap:

Bell's Canyon to Lone Peak is some of the greatest hiking in the state of Utah.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LA Ute]

It will be interesting to see how this effort goes. The video is actually pretty informative:


http://youtu.be/r_5z1K2Ryx0

[chrisrenrut]

What a great day! I finally got the last two (of twelve) Russian olive stumps out of my backyard. Son had his best soccer game of the season. Utes win at Big House. And, last but not least, I finally sit down to write my Sunday school lesson, only to remember that I didn't give my lesson last week because all the kids were out of town. I don't have to plan a thing!

it may be just a Utah thing, but all our normal meetings are cancelled tomorrow for the Ogden Temple dedication. I am usually at church from 6:00 am to 1:00 pm, so it will be a "day of rest" to just go for two hours.

[LA Ute]

I like this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR8qIrJcJh4

[Scorcho]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58458452-78/university-beards-beard-campus.html.csp

It's time to start a "BeardedMen.org" movement for the Mormon church.

I liked that the article used the term "slovenly"

[LA Ute]

Once upon a time both my bishop and I had mustaches. We went to the temple to help with youth baptisms. We were not allowed to perform any ordinances because the temple president took the position that when doing so we were the equivalent of temple workers, who must adhere to missionary-level grooming standards. The temple worker that booted us was really embarrassed. I was pretty irritated that a bishop (then aged 75, who had had his mustache for 50+ years, ever since his Navy service in WWII) would be embarrassed in front of the youth. I went all the way to a GA with that one.

[LA Ute]

Sounds like I can count on you to add a profile to the website. Are you good at making web pages? I'm not.

After 25 years with the 'stache, I became clean-shaven. I feel like I have disappointed you.

[Switzerland]

From the book Visions of Glory:

(Describing the author's near-death experience)


I looked around me and realized...we were in a tunnel of sorts, and I had the sensation of moving at great speed. I discerned that the tunnel was "alive." Perhaps it would be more accurate to say, it was a part of my being. It was "mine," and I had created it. My angelic escort smiled again, "That is right. It is a portal, and you created it. Only you can use it."

I thought about this, then asked, "So, does each person make his own portal before coming to this earth?" The tunnel felt like it was as much a part of me as my hand or foot. It was my understanding that this portal was how I came to this earth to be born and how I would return to God when I was at last finished with mortality. I could "feel" the tunnel, the same as one feels his arm or fingers.

He seemed pleased. "Yes, that is correct. Everyone creates their own portal, which you perceive as a tunnel of light but which is just the best way for you to understand what is happening to you. It is a divine power you learned long ago, which enabled you to come to earth, and eventually to return to God. Everyone must create their own."

...I asked, Does the earth have a tunnel of light?" The scriptures inform us that the earth is an intelligent and living thing.

He answered, "Yes. God provided a similar means for the movement of the earth to where it now is."

I then experienced, as if I were actually there, how the earth "fell" from where it was created and moved to where it is positioned now. I had the impression that it took thousands of years for it to arrive.

The image I saw appeared to me to be a "folding" of the universe. It looked like the universe was folded in on itself, like a sheet of thick paper or fabric so that where the earth was created and where it was to go were on top of one another. The earth was then moved from where it emerged and physically "transitioned" to its new position. This moving of the earth occurred during the entire creative process. By the time it arrived, it was prepared for mortal man.

I also saw that when it is time for it to return to its original location, the universe will again fold and the earth will be moved back to its place of creation.

The image I saw revealed that even though we only perceive one plane of existence, there are an infinite number of planes stacked, or layered, in the same space. These planes are not truly "universes" because they are less about infinite stars and suns and worlds as they are about God's organization and exaltation of all of His creations and His assigning unchanging glory and laws to each plane. Human language does not give us adequate words to describe such things, nor does human intelligence give us the ability to understand such things unless our minds are opened for a moment. When I was with the angel, I could understand all of this clearly. I believe I remember most of what I saw, yet now I have only a fragment of the understanding of what it meant or by what principle it occurred. What I learned then, and what I have been allowed to retain, has taken me many years to acquire the words to describe, even to myself. If you consider that this is the only time I have said many of these things out loud, you will understand why I still struggle for words.

I did understand that the reason the universes were "folded" together was because it was more efficient. The word "easier" doesn't apply because God has all power, and nothing taxes His power or ability- it was just more efficient, and it is the way it has always been done.

There is a celestial arithmetic about this vision that was amazing to behold. I realized that this mighty folding of the universe was not magic to God. It was more like brilliant spiritual technology. I saw that God possesses vast laws, principles, and science- if you will- of how to do these things within His understanding and power. They were beautiful to behold, like a divine dance with stars and planets as the performers. When men do math there is always the infection of error and mistakes. God's arithmetic is always flawless, and I saw that the entirety of His creations were the recipient of His flawless Godly engineering.

All of the glorified universes I perceived were one of three glories- celestial, terrestrial, or telestial. There were other types, which were not types of glory. These were wonderful places without glory where beings who had not qualified for a reward of glory during their lifetimes were ultimately sent. These were of every type, of every description, and were created in response to their desires. They wanted nothing more to do with God or His intervention in their lives, so He gave them what they wanted- whatever it was- and there they would stay throughout eternity, unable to challenge God's authority ever again.

Our earth is presently of the telestial order, but before the era of man, the earth had come from a celestial plane. It was not yet celestialized, but it was created there. The transition from a celestial realm to the mortal realm is what constituted the Fall, and was accomplished by this folding process.

When a person dies or when he has an out-of-body experience, as in my case, his own tunnel brings him back to his original place and to his original structure- which were both spiritual in nature. This power to return to God is only perceived as a tunnel of light. It is not physical and is not actually a tunnel but is the sure way God has provided for our spirits to return to Him.

When we are done with this telesitial experience, we will no longer need this tunnel between earth and God. We will then be able as spirits, and eventually as resurrected beings, to move instantly across vast distances by the power of God that will be inherent within us.

We needed the tunnel of light because a flawed mortal does not have the ability to initiate travel as does a spirit. Similar to leaving a rope dangling over the cliff so we can climb back up, we left the tunnel of light as our sure means of returning home after we have discarded this fleshy tabernacle.

(skipping ahead 148 pages)

...The next vision I saw took me to a time after the Millennium. I was viewing the earth from out in space, as we call it now. The earth had been moved to a new location far beyond the galaxy we call the Milky Way. This had been accomplished by the same "folding" process that had placed the earth in its mortal rotation around our sun.

There was a new heaven here. All of the stars were different. They were brighter and glorified. There was a massive sun in the sky, which I understood to be the greatest of all the creations of God, and where Father and our Savior dwelt. I was looking at the new earth beneath me. It was glowing nearly as brightly as the sun. The earth had been celestialized, and persently there were no people upon the earth, and nothing remained of man's long tenure there. Everything man had built was gone, as well as trees, grass, and flowers. The earth itself was perfectly smooth and as clear as glass. It was itself a giant Urim and Thummim. The earth had died at the end of the Millennium and had now been "resurrected" by God. It was at long last prepared to host those who had once lived as mortals upon her face, and who were finally qualified to swell in her fiery glory.

The judgment day had just occurred, and all former inhabitants of earth were now dwelling in their new kingdoms, except the celestial kingdom. The earth was now ready to become that celestial abode but for one finishing detail.

I was with a large group of people who were returning to the earth with a large city. We were not in or on the city, but beside it, bringing it with us. We were moving through space at a rapid pace, bringing the first of many cities to the earth. We were a vast company of those who had run the good race, who had fought the good fight, and finished the course. And one of us could have brought this city by ourself, but we were there to share in this eternally historic event because this was "our" celestial home now for the remainder of eternity.

The city beside me was the most beautiful structure ever created. God Himself had designed it, and we had been sent to construct it. Not only was it incomparably beautiful, but it was glorious beyond any mortal ability to describe it. I thought then, and now as I am attempting to describe it, that such beauty could only have come from the mind of God. It was a single, glorious building, bit it was the size of a city, glowing white with sparkling accents of color. We brought it from the presence of Father, to be the first and greatest structure on the earth. It was well over a square mile, a mile high, and with its many spires, arches, and architectural wonders, it was approximately pyramidal in shape. This would be the residence of our Savior, who was now to dwell with us forever.

As we slowed to the place the city at the exact northern pole of the new earth, I knew that we could reshape the earth to anything we desired. We could call forth gardens, rivers, or mountains in endless variety and wonder- but the era of green grass was past because those things belonged to the telestial and terrestrial orders, and the earth was now celestial. Those things which had been wondrous and beautiful to us before would eventually not even come to mind any more, for the wonder and glory before us far exceeded all other possible orders of living.

I recall feeling total, absolute joy. It was not only joy for ourselves, but also for the earth, which had waited so long and faithfully for evil to be wiped from her face. She was now glorified and perfected- and finally at rest- and we, we were finally home. The journey was finally over. A million years of preparation, mortal life, trials and suffering, a thousand years of work in the Millennium and the judgment were now done, and our lives were about to begin.

[LA Ute]

Interesting, Switzerland, but it far exceeds any recorded information revealed to any prophet, both in scope and detail. Color me skeptical. I figure we'll all find out soon enough how it will be.

[Switzerland]

Interesting, Switzerland, but it far exceeds any recorded information revealed to any prophet, both in scope and detail. Color me skeptical. I figure we'll all find out soon enough how it will be.
Understood, though may I make two slight corrections? It far exceeds any publicly recorded information revealed by any prophet.

Also, and please don't take this as an admonition to not follow the prophet; I would not advise that to anyone. In the spirit of friendliness, I just want to add reminders of a few scriptures pertaining to our day:

Acts 2:17-18: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams, and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.

Compare to Joel 2:28-29.

President Hinckley, in the Sep 1985 General Women's conference, said: "Yours may be the spirit of prophecy. That may sound strange to some of you. Miriam in the Old Testament is spoken of as a prophetess. Peter, on the day of Pentecost, repeated the words of the prophet Joel. Can anyone doubt that many women have a special intuitive sense, even a prescient understanding of things to come?"

I believe, when a person believes they have received revelation or had a vision, that they need to see whether it complies with church doctrine. (It is very, very difficult for many to decipher the difference between personal emotion, and the Spirit. President Packer calls it a "life-long process, learning to fine-tune the Spirit and filter out the rest"). As for Visions of Glory, it greatly increases anything that had previously been publicly shared, but none of its 265 pages contrast anything in scripture, or books or talks from the brethren, past and present.

It's interesting that its author was personal friends with Spencer W. Kimball, Howard W. Hunter, and Neil A. Maxwell. For many years, he kept his experience private, but three years ago, felt the Spirit telling him that the time had come to publish it. Shortly afterwards, he was questioned by his local leaders and then the brethren (you may call that "the Denver Snuffer effect"), but since that meeting was allowed to keep his calling as a temple officiator and last year was called to be a bishop.

[LA Ute]

I am glad this finally came out. It's quite good, and probably long overdue.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsLrVpeodog&feature=youtu.be

[LA Ute]

I think if I watched this every day I'd be a better man for it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0YNVqEYlkU

[LA Ute]

"Science takes things apart to see how they work. Religion puts things together to see what they mean.”


--Lord Jonathan Sacks, former Chief Rabbi of the United Kingdom

[LA Ute]

This is a succinct summary of what discussions about religious belief always seem to come down to:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865621899/In-the-gospel-faith-must-come-first.html

[LA Ute]

What is a "BYU teaching and learning consultant?" And why do bible studies majors always think their Greek translations are enlightening?

I had the same question but decided to focus on what he wrote. I do wonder how reasonable it is to expect something new from the known Greek translations. Maybe Solon knows.

[LA Ute]

I don't know that many people ever look at this thread but I at least use it as a place to park stuff that I find interesting. I hope others do too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB3ZmLatcUI

Intro material from the Veritas website:

Does Science Make Faith Obsolete? By James Tour: http://youtu.be/CB3ZmLatcUI

He is well known for his work in molecular electronics and molecular switching molecules. He has also been involved in other work, such as the creation of a nanocar and NanoKids, an interactive learning DVD to teach children fundamentals of chemistry and physics, SciRave, Dance Dance revolution and Guitar Hero packages to teach science concepts to middle-school students and SciRave-STEM for elementary school children, and much work on carbon nanotubes and graphene. Dr. Tour’s work on carbon materials chemistry is broad and encompasses fullerene purification, composites, conductive inks for radio frequencies identification tags, carbon nanoreporters for identifying oil downhole, graphene synthesis from cookies and insects, graphitic electronic devices, carbon particle drug delivery for treatment of traumatic brain injury, the merging of 2D graphene with 1D nanotubes to make a conjoined hybrid material, a new graphene-nanotube 2D material called rebar graphene, graphene quantum dots from coal, gas barrier composites, graphene nanoribbon deicing films, supercapacitors and battery device structures, and water splitting to H2 and O2 using metal chalcogenides. His work with the synthesis of graphene oxide, its mechanism of formation, and its use in capturing radionuclides from water is extensive. Dr. Tour has developed oxide based electronic memories that can also be transparent and built onto flexible substrates. More recently, he has been using porous metal structures to make renewable energy devices including batteries and supercapacitors, as well as electronic memories. Tour is also well known for his work on nanocars, single-molecule vehicles with four independently rotating wheels, axles, and light-activated motors. His early independent career focused upon the synthesis of conjugated polymers and precise oligomers. Dr. Tour was also a founder of the Molecular Electronics Corporation. He holds joint appointments in the departments of chemistry, computer science, and materials science and nanoengineering at Rice University. Dr. Tour received degrees from Syracuse University(BS, 1981), Purdue University (PhD, 1986) and completed postdoctoral work at theUniversity of Wisconsin–Madison (1986–1987) and Stanford University (1987–1988).

Tour was named among "The 50 most Influential Scientists in the World Today" by TheBestSchools.org in 2014. Tour was named "Scientist of the Year" by R&D Magazine in 2013. Tour won the ACS Nano Lectureship Award from the American Chemical Society in 2012. Tour was ranked one of the top 10 chemists in the world over the past decade by Thomson Reuters in 2009. That year, he was also made a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Other notable awards won by Tour include the 2008 Feynman Prize in Nanotechnology, the NASA Space Act Award in 2008 for his development of carbon nanotube reinforced elastomers, the Arthur C. Cope Scholar Award from the American Chemical Society (ACS) for his achievements in organic chemistry in 2007, the Small Times magazine's Innovator of the Year Award in 2006, the Southern Chemist of the Year Award from ACS in 2005, the Honda Innovation Award for Nanocars in 2005, the NSF Presidential Young Investigator Award in 1990, and the Office of Naval Research Young Investigator Award in 1989. In 2005, Tour's journal article "Directional Control in Thermally Driven Single-Molecule Nanocars" was ranked the Most Accessed Journal Article by the American Chemical Society. Tour has twice won the George R. Brown Award for Superior Teaching at Rice University in 2007 and 2012.

Tour holds more than 60 United States patents plus many non-US patents. He has more than 500 research publications.

http://www.jmtour.com (http://www.jmtour.com/)

Veritas apparently does these forums (fora) at universities all over the USA. They did one at the U of U.

http://veritas.org/campuses/mississippi-state-university/

[LA Ute]

Is that a 2 hour You Tube video? Can you post the highlights?

I added some info to my original post.

[LA Ute]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZqTRSVA1YA

[Rocker Ute]

My daughter got baptized yesterday, it was a good day. She hates being the center of attention so it was good for her to be it a little bit.

Following in the pattern of her deeply spiritual father and general ancestry, after she came out of the water I said to her, "How are you feeling?" She replied, "Wet."

[LA Ute]

This is just an interesting take on what mainstream Christianity thinks about Christ's activities while his body was still in the tomb.

http://religiondispatches.org/jesus-went-to-hell-but-nobody-wants-to-talk-about-it/

[DrumNFeather]

I don't know that it deserves its own thread, but I enjoyed GC for the most part this weekend. I don't get much into the music, but I must say that MoTab's version of 'I Believe in Christ' was pretty inspiring.

Utchdorf hit it out of the park as he usually does, and many of the other talks were solid as well. Oh sure, there's always a few moments that make you crinkle your nose, but that is to be expected.

Of course the big news came from the second session on Saturday where there were dissenting votes during the sustaining of the First Presidency. For the most part, it registers a "meh" on my scale...but I'm certain it will generate discussion. It already has.

Any highlights for anyone else?

[chrisrenrut]

I don't know that it deserves its own thread, but I enjoyed GC for the most part this weekend. I don't get much into the music, but I must say that MoTab's version of 'I Believe in Christ' was pretty inspiring.

Utchdorf hit it out of the park as he usually does, and many of the other talks were solid as well. Oh sure, there's always a few moments that make you crinkle your nose, but that is to be expected.

Of course the big news came from the second session on Saturday where there were dissenting votes during the sustaining of the First Presidency. For the most part, it registers a "meh" on my scale...but I'm certain it will generate discussion. It already has.

Any highlights for anyone else?

Did anyone hear why Richard Scott didn't talk? If Packer and Hales can talk in their condition, it makes me worry for Elder Scott.

I listened to more conference this this weekend than I normally do. I enjoyed what I heard. But the biggest highlight for me was coming home from priesthood session and watching Kentucky get beat.

[UtahsMrSports]

I had read that the opposing votes were coming, as Im sure many did as well. I thought Pres Uchtdorf handled the situation very well, as Im sure he was aware of it. Had they managed to keep it a secret, it would have been interesting to see if it had rattled him at all. That is such a mundane task, that they often barely even give a half second for the opposing votes. I am not going to question the motives of this group as a whole. I do know, personally, ,one of the folks involved in this and I can tell you in his case, this was 100% about getting attention and a cheap thrill. As several talks pointed out, there is and needs to be room for questioning within the church. And they do call for opposing votes, so I dont really have a problem with anyone voicing their thoughts and concerns, but, at the same time, these movements attract people who are looking for attention and thrills as well. And those folks will make it more difficult for the sincere ones to be taken seriously. And this is now three sentences in a row that have started with "and".......so ill stop right here.

I can truthfully say that was the first time I had ever seen someone raise their hand to oppose in some form in a meeting.

I enjoyed the talks, although it is awfully hard to hear when you are wrestling a 3 year old and getting up to walk around with a crying infant. It was neat though, as my 3 year old would occasionally pick somehting out of one of the talks and ask us about it.

I was surprised, but very happy to hear about the new temples. I didn't expect any, so that was neat and I am happy for the people of Thailand, Haiti, and the Ivory Coast, as no doubt this is the answer to countless hours of personal and public prayer. What a blessing!!

I feel like (and this is no in depth analysis here) that in the next few years, there will be a decent amount of turnover in the Qof12. President Packer and Elder Hales look worse each time. As noted above, Elder Scott was absent. President Monson had his speaking load cut in half, as he is growing older.

[DrumNFeather]

How do people hear about things like that? I feel disconnected. I've never seen a hand in opposition for a real vote, but I've seen it in General Conference a couple times. It happens every once in a while.

I think it was part of the small groundswell in reaction to the excommunications of Dehlin and Kelly. I think this is a separate group technically, but they all recruit from the same pools for the most part.

[UtahsMrSports]

How do people hear about things like that? I feel disconnected. I've never seen a hand in opposition for a real vote, but I've seen it in General Conference a couple times. It happens every once in a while.

On facebook, there are two groups that I like to follow as conference approaches to see what they have up their sleeves.......these are "Ordain Women" and "Ordain Women Exposed" (neither of which are of any use as far as serious dialogue or efforts for change go, in my opinion, but different discussion.) OWE seemed to have found this group called "Any Opposed?" and was all over it. I had a sneaking suspicion that this person I know was involved, and so after some digging, I found out about their planned activities.

[UtahsMrSports]

I think it was part of the small groundswell in reaction to the excommunications of Dehlin and Kelly. I think this is a separate group technically, but they all recruit from the same pools for the most part.

Exactly. The person I know is an avid Dehlin disciple. Though not technically involved, I can also say that KK had quite a bit to do with helping this movement along.

[LA Ute]

The dumbest thing about the "no" votes is that they were shouted out. Hey, in this church we vote by the uplifted hand!

[DrumNFeather]

The dumbest thing about the "no" votes is that they were shouted out. Hey, in this church we vote by the uplifted hand!

I was hoping Dieter would make a snide remark about not even understanding the process...but I knew he was above that, which is why he is where he is and I'm an EQ instructor. :)

[mUUser]

I don't know that it deserves its own thread, but I enjoyed GC for the most part this weekend. I don't get much into the music, but I must say that MoTab's version of 'I Believe in Christ' was pretty inspiring.

Utchdorf hit it out of the park as he usually does, and many of the other talks were solid as well. Oh sure, there's always a few moments that make you crinkle your nose, but that is to be expected.

Of course the big news came from the second session on Saturday where there were dissenting votes during the sustaining of the First Presidency. For the most part, it registers a "meh" on my scale...but I'm certain it will generate discussion. It already has.

Any highlights for anyone else?

I thought Wixom's talk was good, but predictable (like Nielsen's). It would be interesting if someone was inspired to talk about someone who left the church, remained happy thoughout their life, and died without returning......and what as LDS we should learn from it. I know it isn't the narrative we seek during conference but it happens so often that it would be a good exercise to go through.

My wife enjoyed a talk about "dancing" or some-such. Haven't gotten to that one yet but she says she really enjoyed it.

Finally, talks about Sabbath day has always been a bit uncomfortable for me. But, this time, it didn't bother. Interesting he mentioned that he threw away his list of acceptable and not acceptable activities, then proceeded to give us a list of acceptable and not acceptable activities. Anyway, our kids have played competitive sports which requires Sunday play, so depending on the sport and season, we engage in Sunday play. I used to justify it, but, now have accepted that it is breaking the commands and counsels of the church. My wife still tries to justify it, but it's useless. I'm not certain what it says about me when I agree that I'm breaking a command as well as personal counsel from my Stake President to not play on Sunday, but, have no intention to stop. What does that say?.....I can only suppose Elder Nelson has it right. "True believers keep the Sabbath Day holy." I cannot, therefore count myself a "true believer". I will, however, because I love my wife & family, and because I still have a desire to test faith, will continue to endure till the end.

[Mormon Red Death]

I thought Wixom's talk was good, but predictable (like Nielsen's). It would be interesting if someone was inspired to talk about someone who left the church, remained happy thoughout their life, and died without returning......and what as LDS we should learn from it. I know it isn't the narrative we seek during conference but it happens so often that it would be a good exercise to go through.

My wife enjoyed a talk about "dancing" or some-such. Haven't gotten to that one yet but she says she really enjoyed it.

Finally, talks about Sabbath day has always been a bit uncomfortable for me. But, this time, it didn't bother. Interesting he mentioned that he threw away his list of acceptable and not acceptable activities, then proceeded to give us a list of acceptable and not acceptable activities. Anyway, our kids have played competitive sports which requires Sunday play, so depending on the sport and season, we engage in Sunday play. I used to justify it, but, now have accepted that it is breaking the commands and counsels of the church. My wife still tries to justify it, but it's useless. I'm not certain what it says about me when I agree that I'm breaking a command as well as personal counsel from my Stake President to not play on Sunday, but, have no intention to stop. What does that say?.....I can only suppose Elder Nelson has it right. "True believers keep the Sabbath Day holy." I cannot, therefore count myself a "true believer". I will, however, because I love my wife & family, and because I still have a desire to test faith, will continue to endure till the end.

The problem with "keeping the sabbath day holy" is where do you draw the line? Do you just sit and read scriptures all day? Really what is the difference between sitting in the house and watching movies vs playing outside vs your 6 year old's city rec soccer game?

[mUUser]

That's the problem and the beauty of it. We get to decide where the line is individually. In some ways, it would be easier to have a law of Moses list. This is one area where I have been pretty good about not judging. My personal line has changed at different stages of my life.

I'll tell you what, though. At times when I thought I was doing a good job. I really felt that the D&C Sabbath promise - that we will be able to stay unspotted from the world - was a real and great blessing.

I have to admit I don't regret one bit (....yet) the time I've spent at the venues with my kids on Sundays. I've had a good number of church members, usually teachers, comment that I seem to have an unusually good relationship with my kids. And I do. For example, with my oldest, I've spent hundreds upon hundreds (if not thousands) of one on one hours with her crisscrossing the country from the east coast to Vancouver Canada. The kind of time you just can't get with your kid any other way. Even today, as a sophomore in college, she'll call me up after every game to go over things with me, which always leads to conversations not related to softball. The same is true of the other two as well. My 13 year old will demand we watch the game together tonight. Even if I was sick and laying in bed he'd hop in and watch it with me no matter what. It's just one of our things.

I simply can't pull myself from that one on one time with my kids and my wife, and those once-in-a-lifetime experiences, regardless of the promises of keeping the sabbath holy. I've yet been able to exercise faith in that area of my life.

Having said that, I wouldn't say my kids are stellar in their church responsibilities -- no interest in scouting or the YW medallion, just mild interest in seminary. It's important to me that my kids marry in the temple as I think that's one teaching the church has absolutely nailed it -- eternal family relationships -- as well as an atonement based in compassion and inclusion. Those are the 2 testimony building blocks for me.

[mUUser]

The problem with "keeping the sabbath day holy" is where do you draw the line? Do you just sit and read scriptures all day? Really what is the difference between sitting in the house and watching movies vs playing outside vs your 6 year old's city rec soccer game?


Seems to me even the general authorities have lines they have drawn with the sabbath. It's well documented they travel on the sabbath, and many have had occupations which they knew going in would require labor on the sabbath -- airline pilot and surgeon are 2 examples out of many.

Exodus 20:8-11King James Version (KJV)
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

That's fairly straight-forward. Anything not directed toward glorifying God cannot be considered worthy of the sabbath. So yes its true, my line, your line, their line.....there's almost always a line. My line in the sand just seems to be highlighted in talks!!

[USS Utah]

I can truthfully say that was the first time I had ever seen someone raise their hand to oppose in some form in a meeting.

During my mission, the boundaries of a ward I was assigned to were redrawn. When they asked for those who were opposed to signify "by the same sign", one woman raised both her hands and shouted "I oppose!"

[Diehard Ute]

So, what say all of you of Mark Atuaia's tweet threatening anyone who opposed?

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/2369877-155/byu-asst-coach-under-fire-for

[Scratch]

So, what say all of you of Mark Atuaia's tweet threatening anyone who opposed?

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/2369877-155/byu-asst-coach-under-fire-for

I'd share my opinion but I'm afraid Mark would track me down and discipline me.

[LA Ute]

So, what say all of you of Mark Atuaia's tweet threatening anyone who opposed?

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/2369877-155/byu-asst-coach-under-fire-for

I think the people who got upset about that need to un-wad their knickers.

[mUUser]

So, what say all of you of Mark Atuaia's tweet threatening anyone who opposed?

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/2369877-155/byu-asst-coach-under-fire-for


Thin skinned? Insecure? Neighborhood jerk/bully? Take your pick. It's all a sad commentary on his character.

[UtahsMrSports]

Here is a question for the folks who know more than me (everyone):

These "Any Opposed?" folks.........are immediately stripped of their temple recommend? The guy i know is long out of the church, so he doesnt matter. But im curious, becuase that is one of the questions and they just answered it..........

[UtahsMrSports]

I think someone would have to answer "no" during a temple recommend interview.

Right. I should have worded it better. I assume that anyone with a TR who is seen opposing church leadership would be asked to speak with a bishop and the objection would be discussed and action taken from there. I imagine it is case by case, but Im curious.

[Rocker Ute]

Here is a question for the folks who know more than me (everyone):

These "Any Opposed?" folks.........are immediately stripped of their temple recommend? The guy i know is long out of the church, so he doesnt matter. But im curious, becuase that is one of the questions and they just answered it..........

I suppose the answer revolved around the questions around this is 1. What does it mean to sustain the leaders of the church and 2. What is the reason they opposed?

I personally believe that the major part of sustaining church leaders is doing your part to 'build the kingdom of God' through fulfilling your callings and most importantly being a Christlike person. Part of a sustaining vote is just a public manifestation and maybe a personal accounting of whether you are doing these things. So it might be argued that you could disagree with church leadership and even oppose them in a vote while still sustaining them.

Next is the reason for the opposing vote. I have a great story around an opposing vote that involves some details that I can't disclose to protect both the guilty and the innocent. But a high overview is this:

A certain public figure was called to the high council in his stake. This public figure does a number of things that bothered another stake leader including hosting and judging bikini contests, gambling etc, it is sort of part of his job. So this other stake leader goes to the stake president and explains that he doesn't think it is appropriate for a man involved in what he is to also be on the high council. The stake president considered the feedback and ended up calling him anyway. The other stake leader then went on to work with the public figure without issue, despite his voiced opposition.

Point being you can oppose and it might be for good reason which is why they give this opportunity.

If these individuals say they can't and won't work to resolve these issues, or if they have legitimate concerns shouldn't be reason to strip someone of their recommends in my humble opinion.

As for me, I'm glad they opposed. Suddenly people are considering a scripturally mandated ceremony that most people never think about.

[LA Ute]

I found this statement by Henry B. Eyring interesting and thought-provoking:


“By our sustaining vote, we make solemn promises. We promise to pray for the Lord’s servants and that He will lead and strengthen them (see D&C 93:51). We pledge that we will look for and expect to feel inspiration from God in their counsel and whenever they act in their calling (see D&C 1:38 (http://www.utahby5.com/x-apple-data-detectors://0)).

“That promise will need to be renewed in our hearts frequently. Your Sunday School teacher will try to teach by the Spirit, but just as you might do, your teacher may make mistakes in front of the class. You, however, can decide to listen and watch for the moments when you can feel inspiration come. In time you will notice fewer mistakes and more frequent evidence that God is sustaining that teacher.

“As we raise a hand to sustain a person, we commit to work for whatever purpose of the Lord that person is called to accomplish.”

I'm going to try to do a better job with our ward's Sunday School teachers....

A longer discussion of the subject is here (http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/sustaining-the-brethren/).

[mUUser]

...1. What does it mean to sustain the leaders of the church....


In my mind it looks something like this: Provide a certain amount of due respect, pray for the leaders that they'll seek truth and understanding, help leaders when able, be patient with leaders knowing their job is next to impossible, give them the benefit of the doubt if possible, and at minimum, hear them out. Ultimately, we rely on our own senses (read the HG) for inspiration and confirmation. I believe there's a fairly wide acceptable width of "ok" on any given question. Obviously, I'm not of any group that blindly follows the title or calling. And, if I'm wrong, those with proper stewardship will correct me and make the call as they see it. I've been denied before on the "attend sacrament and other meetings" question when I missed a number of consecutive weeks due to athletics. I lived. To his credit, he changed his mind on the topic and asked to reinterview me and gave me the recommend.

[Scorcho]

I think it's a safe bet that at least one of the 12 won't be around next conference.

3 or 4 of them appear to be gravely ill, if I'm 92 I'm not sure I would opt for Chemo?

[LA Ute]

Probably. The current group is unusually elderly, even for the LDS church.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UtahsMrSports]

There was a long period of time where the Q12 was the same. and then from 2004-2008, five of them passed away. Since then, it has been consistent. As you guys have pointed out, we are likely approaching another 3-5 year stretch where we will see a lot of turnover.

Its always sad, because I feel like I have learned so much from these men. But at the same time, I know many of them are anxious to be reunited with their wives and other loved ones.

[LA Ute]

Church Approves Electronic Method to Submit Tithes and Other Charitable Donations (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/first-presidency-approves-online-tithing-donations?adbid=10153135102182013&adbpl=fb&adbpr=53305042012&cid=social_20150430_44914196&short_code=2wf8p)

The Sunday afternoons of ward clerks and bishopric counselors are about to be improved for the better.

[chrisrenrut]

Church Approves Electronic Method to Submit Tithes and Other Charitable Donations (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/first-presidency-approves-online-tithing-donations?adbid=10153135102182013&adbpl=fb&adbpr=53305042012&cid=social_20150430_44914196&short_code=2wf8p)

The Sunday afternoons of ward clerks and bishopric counselors are about to be improved for the better.


http://youtu.be/BBZ7AfZR9xs

[UtahsMrSports]

Church Approves Electronic Method to Submit Tithes and Other Charitable Donations (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/first-presidency-approves-online-tithing-donations?adbid=10153135102182013&adbpl=fb&adbpr=53305042012&cid=social_20150430_44914196&short_code=2wf8p)

The Sunday afternoons of ward clerks and bishopric counselors are about to be improved for the better.

Having never been someone who had to stay to count the tithes and offering, I can only imagine how nice this will be for those who can now spend more time with their families.

Also, Im ashamed to admit that my first thought was "oh cool! now I can pay tithing, get the spiritual blessings AND get the rewards points for paying with my credit card!" I think I read something, somewhere about "real intent"........maybe I should go look that up again. :)

[Rocker Ute]

Something tells me this will be ACH. Credit card fees add up quick and I personally would have a hard time encouraging anyone using CC debt to pay tithes (even when someone is managing their cards well and paying it off immediately).

On another note, I'm of the opinion that financial clerk is the best job in the church. No prep, do your work on Sunday, stay for a bit after church, don't have to deal with people.

Aside from the occasional audit during the week NBD.

[chrisrenrut]

Something tells me this will be ACH. Credit card fees add up quick and I personally would have a hard time encouraging anyone using CC debt to pay tithes (even when someone is managing their cards well and paying it off immediately).

On another note, I'm of the opinion that financial clerk is the best job in the church. No prep, do your work on Sunday, stay for a bit after church, don't have to deal with people.

Aside from the occasional audit during the week NBD.

I agree on the financial clerk calling. The ones who will really benefit are the councelors who have been at the church house for better than 5 hours in PEC, ward council meeting, attended primary or young women's, conduct sacrament meeting, do recommend interviews or setting aparts, and then have to spend the extra hour. Amirite LAUte?

[UBlender]

Something tells me this will be ACH. Credit card fees add up quick and I personally would have a hard time encouraging anyone using CC debt to pay tithes (even when someone is managing their cards well and paying it off immediately).

On another note, I'm of the opinion that financial clerk is the best job in the church. No prep, do your work on Sunday, stay for a bit after church, don't have to deal with people.

Aside from the occasional audit during the week NBD.

Yeah, I was a financial clerk for three years. At first I really thought I was going to hate it due to having to stick around 1-2 hours at the church. It ended up not being so bad, save for Fast Sundays during the year where church didn't end until 4:00. That extra 1-2 hours at the church ended up being fairly gratifying while seeing some inspiring bits of generosity as well as some "widow's mite" situations.

[LA Ute]

I agree on the financial clerk calling. The ones who will really benefit are the councelors who have been at the church house for better than 5 hours in PEC, ward council meeting, attended primary or young women's, conduct sacrament meeting, do recommend interviews or setting aparts, and then have to spend the extra hour. Amirite LAUte?

It was a little worse. I'd show up at the building at 6:25 a.m. and get home at about 1:30 p.m. I always enjoyed it but it was tiring and I was ready for it to be over after 10 years.

[LA Ute]

Does the historicity of the B of M matter?

http://blog.fairmormon.org/2015/05/02/does-the-historicity-of-the-book-of-mormon-matter/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LA Ute]

How to pray like a Mormon (http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/national/how-to-pray-like-a-mormon/2015/05/06/885cfe5a-f405-11e4-bca5-21b51bbdf93e_video.html) -- the Washington POst

[Scorcho]

SL Trib reported that with the drop in missionary age from 19 to 18 for men and 21 to 19 for women that there was a +40% increase in missionaries serving.

Unfortunately that hasn't led to a simlar increase in convert baptisms (which have only increased 9%) during the same time. That's a little troubling I think.

takes me back to my own mission and how frustrating it was

[Rocker Ute]

SL Trib reported that with the drop in missionary age from 19 to 18 for men and 21 to 19 for women that there was a +40% increase in missionaries serving.

Unfortunately that hasn't led to a simlar increase in convert baptisms (which have only increased 9%) during the same time. That's a little troubling I think.

takes me back to my own mission and how frustrating it was

We have essentially three sets of missionaries in my stake (a set of sisters and a set of elders, plus a full time couple that actually lives in our stake). Our stake is about 10 blocks tall and 6 blocks wide. You could probably knock every door in your area in about two weeks.

That being said, I have heard from numerous returning missionaries that the bulk of their time is spent on reactivating vs convert baptism. Some have even reported that was essentially all they did nearly 100% of the time. Most others have been in the 80/20 to 60/40 mix in favor of reactivating efforts.

Foreign missions have been a little different depending on where they are.

So I'd be interested to see what sort of 'reactivation numbers' there are. As for my stake we've actually seen a major uptick in convert baptisms and I'd categorize our sisters at being wildly successful at getting people back out and continuing going. That however may be exclusive to our area and our general awesomeness.

My other observation has been that the sisters both serving from our stake and serving within our stake have been pretty impressive. They seem to be pretty sharp and engaged. The elders... uh... quite a bit less so. The lowering of age for women seems to have been a significant net positive based on the quality of missionary and I feel just the opposite about the men, I don't think going at 18 is right for many of them.

[Rocker Ute]

I don't think you can generalize based on just your stake. Mission presidents will often send the scrubs to the same area.

This is obviously just based on my observation but I'm not just speaking of missionaries serving in my neighborhood but missionaries serving from my neighborhood. This is also obviously overly harsh, it is just based off of stacking the women serving from my stake vs the men. As a whole the women have been much more impressive.

Or are you saying my neighborhood is full of 'scrubs'? That might be true, our stake YM always get destroyed in region basketball.

[Rocker Ute]

I was asked to speak to a combined youth group about the blessings and dangers of technology today. I had a presentation with the title 'The blessings and dangers of technology - a handy guide to shame'.

[Sullyute]

I was asked to speak to a combined youth group about the blessings and dangers of technology today. I had a presentation with the title 'The blessings and dangers of technology - a handy guide to shame'.

I love the title! I hope it turned out well.

[Rocker Ute]

I love the title! I hope it turned out well.

I think kids get bombarded enough with the 'Porn is bad' speeches or what not, so I tried to keep it upbeat and not just be about all the bad stuff on the internet, but even practical stuff, like not posting something that may reflect badly on you in the future in a job search or with a potential date or whatever. Or there are things you just don't want to see, like curiosity around ISIS beheadings or whatnot. I also wanted to talk about overarching principles that are true for all tech and all ages, because you can never keep up with everything. So here are the four principles that I came up with (keep in mind I also wanted to have the spiritual angle on it as well, if I was presenting this in a non-church setting I would tweak it):

1. You are not ever anonymous and things you do with technology may be permanent so think ahead - and things that are designed to be temporary, like SnapChat, actually are not. I shared a story of my brother quoting Beavis and Butthead online under his own name when he was in college and when he got out and was looking for a job, that was the first thing that came up under his name. He luckily was able to get it taken down.
2. Be accountable - in our household we all have access to each other's devices kids and parents and we don't do things in private. Software isn't going to keep you safe, but knowing that you have to report to somebody does. I also talked about how at work most likely everything you do, everything you email, is all being logged.
3. Run! - Through no fault of your own things are going to happen to you with tech, and if it happens run and get help, don't wait around. This is true for stuff like porn, but also if someone is scamming you or if something makes you feel uneasy. If something doesn't feel right, or if something feels off, stop and ask someone to help you. Parents, friends and trusted people will want to help you no matter what you think on how they'll react.
4. You are not damaged goods - No matter what happens, no matter what you do, whatever it is, it can be worked out. (Thinking of 'licked cupcake' analogies I've heard about here) I talked about how believing you are beyond repair because of what you've seen or done is in complete contradiction to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Atonement and that everything can be fixed. But seek help, don't try to work things out on your own.

It was pretty funny to see the 'Uh oh' look on some kids faces particularly when I talked about #1. Some of the kids thought it was unethical for an employer to be looking at personal profiles beyond LinkedIn, but a couple of adults there mentioned they always check people online before they hire. I noted that they'd likely never tell you why they didn't hire you, they'd never say, "Those pictures of you and your buddies riding on top of a car gave me pause as to if you have an ounce of good sense..." They just wouldn't hire you.

Anyway, hope it was of worth to them.

[Scorcho]

I think kids get bombarded enough with the 'Porn is bad' speeches or what not, so I tried to keep it upbeat and not just be about all the bad stuff on the internet, but even practical stuff, like not posting something that may reflect badly on you in the future in a job search or with a potential date or whatever. Or there are things you just don't want to see, like curiosity around ISIS beheadings or whatnot. I also wanted to talk about overarching principles that are true for all tech and all ages, because you can never keep up with everything. So here are the four principles that I came up with (keep in mind I also wanted to have the spiritual angle on it as well, if I was presenting this in a non-church setting I would tweak it):

1. You are not ever anonymous and things you do with technology may be permanent so think ahead - and things that are designed to be temporary, like SnapChat, actually are not. I shared a story of my brother quoting Beavis and Butthead online under his own name when he was in college and when he got out and was looking for a job, that was the first thing that came up under his name. He luckily was able to get it taken down.
2. Be accountable - in our household we all have access to each other's devices kids and parents and we don't do things in private. Software isn't going to keep you safe, but knowing that you have to report to somebody does. I also talked about how at work most likely everything you do, everything you email, is all being logged.
3. Run! - Through no fault of your own things are going to happen to you with tech, and if it happens run and get help, don't wait around. This is true for stuff like porn, but also if someone is scamming you or if something makes you feel uneasy. If something doesn't feel right, or if something feels off, stop and ask someone to help you. Parents, friends and trusted people will want to help you no matter what you think on how they'll react.
4. You are not damaged goods - No matter what happens, no matter what you do, whatever it is, it can be worked out. (Thinking of 'licked cupcake' analogies I've heard about here) I talked about how believing you are beyond repair because of what you've seen or done is in complete contradiction to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Atonement and that everything can be fixed. But seek help, don't try to work things out on your own.

It was pretty funny to see the 'Uh oh' look on some kids faces particularly when I talked about #1. Some of the kids thought it was unethical for an employer to be looking at personal profiles beyond LinkedIn, but a couple of adults there mentioned they always check people online before they hire. I noted that they'd likely never tell you why they didn't hire you, they'd never say, "Those pictures of you and your buddies riding on top of a car gave me pause as to if you have an ounce of good sense..." They just wouldn't hire you.

Anyway, hope it was of worth to them.

What Sundays are you available in June?

just kidding great stuff, can I steal some of it for my lesson?

[Rocker Ute]

What Sundays are you available in June?

just kidding great stuff, can I steal some of it for my lesson?

I'm available most Sundays but my fees are unreasonable.

[LA Ute]

Never-Before-Seen Letter on Doubt by Hugh B. Brown

http://lds.net/blog/faith/defending-the-faith/never-seen-letter-doubt-hugh-b-brown/

[Two Utes]

Never-Before-Seen Letter on Doubt by Hugh B. Brown

http://lds.net/blog/faith/defending-the-faith/never-seen-letter-doubt-hugh-b-brown/

His whole life depended upon the church and the church school. Had it not, he might have chucked it, but he went too far down that road and couldn't or wouldn't. This is a letter that only helps educated guys like you LA and guys like you in my firm who have gone very, very far down that road and aren't coming back no how, no way.

But it is the believer thread, so I will leave it at that.

[LA Ute]

His whole life depended upon the church and the church school. Had it not, he might have chucked it, but he went too far down that road and couldn't or wouldn't. This is a letter that only helps educated guys like you LA and guys like you in my firm who have gone very, very far down that road and aren't coming back no how, no way.

But it is the believer thread, so I will leave it at that.

:p!

[mUUser]

I think kids get bombarded enough with the 'Porn is bad' speeches or what not, so I tried to keep it upbeat and not just be about all the bad stuff on the internet, but even practical stuff, like not posting something that may reflect badly on you in the future in a job search or with a potential date or whatever. Or there are things you just don't want to see, like curiosity around ISIS beheadings or whatnot. I also wanted to talk about overarching principles that are true for all tech and all ages, because you can never keep up with everything. So here are the four principles that I came up with (keep in mind I also wanted to have the spiritual angle on it as well, if I was presenting this in a non-church setting I would tweak it):

1. You are not ever anonymous and things you do with technology may be permanent so think ahead - and things that are designed to be temporary, like SnapChat, actually are not. I shared a story of my brother quoting Beavis and Butthead online under his own name when he was in college and when he got out and was looking for a job, that was the first thing that came up under his name. He luckily was able to get it taken down.
2. Be accountable - in our household we all have access to each other's devices kids and parents and we don't do things in private. Software isn't going to keep you safe, but knowing that you have to report to somebody does. I also talked about how at work most likely everything you do, everything you email, is all being logged.
3. Run! - Through no fault of your own things are going to happen to you with tech, and if it happens run and get help, don't wait around. This is true for stuff like porn, but also if someone is scamming you or if something makes you feel uneasy. If something doesn't feel right, or if something feels off, stop and ask someone to help you. Parents, friends and trusted people will want to help you no matter what you think on how they'll react.
4. You are not damaged goods - No matter what happens, no matter what you do, whatever it is, it can be worked out. (Thinking of 'licked cupcake' analogies I've heard about here) I talked about how believing you are beyond repair because of what you've seen or done is in complete contradiction to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Atonement and that everything can be fixed. But seek help, don't try to work things out on your own.

It was pretty funny to see the 'Uh oh' look on some kids faces particularly when I talked about #1. Some of the kids thought it was unethical for an employer to be looking at personal profiles beyond LinkedIn, but a couple of adults there mentioned they always check people online before they hire. I noted that they'd likely never tell you why they didn't hire you, they'd never say, "Those pictures of you and your buddies riding on top of a car gave me pause as to if you have an ounce of good sense..." They just wouldn't hire you.

Anyway, hope it was of worth to them.

Outstanding. You really nailed some important points.

[DrumNFeather]

I don't know if this goes here or not, but I thought it was interesting: http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/06/inoculation-apologetics-intellectuals-and-blogging/

[LA Ute]

I don't know if this goes here or not, but I thought it was interesting: http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/06/inoculation-apologetics-intellectuals-and-blogging/

It is indeed interesting. Thanks for finding and sharing it.

[Utebiquitous]

Interesting but not very helpful. The guy pontificates and teases us with the idea of inoculation without ever providing an example of it - either his own thoughts on how it ought to be done or someone else's. I'm interested. I have friends and family who I try to inoculate but frankly I often lean to the side this writer somewhat criticizes. I believe prophets have erred and I'm all right with that. I do agree that the majority of church members are not all right with this perspective because I've shared it with a few friends and they cannot get their arms around Joseph was wrong about polygamy. I have no problem viewing him as a prophet but also having the opinion that he blew it. There's some nuance to my view but my point isn't to go into it.

Anyway, how is inoculation working for any of you. LA? Drum? I'd love a perspective or two.

[DrumNFeather]

Interesting but not very helpful. The guy pontificates and teases us with the idea of inoculation without ever providing an example of it - either his own thoughts on how it ought to be done or someone else's. I'm interested. I have friends and family who I try to inoculate but frankly I often lean to the side this writer somewhat criticizes. I believe prophets have erred and I'm all right with that. I do agree that the majority of church members are not all right with this perspective because I've shared it with a few friends and they cannot get their arms around Joseph was wrong about polygamy. I have no problem viewing him as a prophet but also having the opinion that he blew it. There's some nuance to my view but my point isn't to go into it.

Anyway, how is inoculation working for any of you. LA? Drum? I'd love a perspective or two.

A couple of things here...

I went back to the post and I read the comments section (25 of them) and I found some helpful tips in there.

I'm not at the point of my life with my children where true inoculation is occurring because they are still very small (Oldest is almost 7), so from a parenting perspective, there is little I can offer...though I will say by the time my oldest is in the youth program, we'll be nearly a decade into the more open/discussion based format of SS and YM/YW lessons, so hopefully we will have learned a thing or two about discussing things in that format by then that will be helpful.

I currently teach the 11 year old class in primary, and I teach EQ once a month to stay connected. In both venues, I'm trying to focus much of my lessons on the teachings of Christ, which is to say, the treatment of others should be our A #1 priority. We talk a lot about the Pharacies in my class, and I really work with the kids to help them understand how quickly you can get off-track by focusing on the wrong things, and really, that is a gate that swings both ways. They seem receptive to the concept, which I think is a win.

In EQ, we have pretty open discussions on the challenges we face in 2015, both in general and as members of the church. I take a very practical approach to just about everything I do, and that is reflected in my teaching. At times, it has caused me to say in front of the class "this line in this talk doesn't work for me, and here's why," but it doesn't cause any problems or consternation (that I am aware of) with folks in my class. We discuss things, we agree/disagree (sometimes vehemently) and at the end of the lesson, it all comes back to how we should act towards one another, and if we focus on that, we'll be alright.

I'm currently working on my lesson for June, which is Elder Bednar's talk from this past conference on hushing our fear. Since fear is real and tangible and something that everyone faces, the bulk of the lesson will be focused on why most of our decisions in life to one degree or another center around fear. For me, these talks provide an important starting point for the conversation, but that's about it. I don't feel compelled to stick to the script or feel like I cannot bring in outside source material. Most importantly, we just talk about how the hell we get through life with as few bumps and bruises along the way. So far it's worked well. Now, when I have to teach a combined lesson with the High Priests...that's a different story.

[Sullyute]

I think the post started a good discussion but didn't offer any answers itself. I think that the reason is because what it proposes is hard. Going from a perspective of "follow the prophet" to "follow the prophet...when he is actually speaking as a prophet" makes people have to think about their actions and faith. They cannot just rely on another person to tell them what to do, but have to make personal decisions based on their faith, reason, moral character, ethics, etc. Allowing teenagers to think for themselves, instead of having answers spoon feed to them. It means that there may not be one "right" answer. Modern mormonism has had a strangle hold on "right" answers, and it is hard for leadership and members alike to realize that there simply may not be any answers, let along "right" answers, to some faith based questions and religious history.

Slightly off the culture topic, but I would love to see a true theologian get put into the 12 with the new vacancy. Or at least someone with a different cultural background to help make the transition to a truly international religion, instead of an inter-mountain one.

[DrumNFeather]

I think the post started a good discussion but didn't offer any answers itself. I think that the reason is because what it proposes is hard. Going from a perspective of "follow the prophet" to "follow the prophet...when he is actually speaking as a prophet" makes people have to think about their actions and faith. They cannot just rely on another person to tell them what to do, but have to make personal decisions based on their faith, reason, moral character, ethics, etc. Allowing teenagers to think for themselves, instead of having answers spoon feed to them. It means that there may not be one "right" answer. Modern mormonism has had a strangle hold on "right" answers, and it is hard for leadership and members alike to realize that there simply may not be any answers, let along "right" answers, to some faith based questions and religious history.

Slightly off the culture topic, but I would love to see a true theologian get put into the 12 with the new vacancy. Or at least someone with a different cultural background to help make the transition to a truly international religion, instead of an inter-mountain one.

Me too...I'm really hoping for the French guy that is the current Presiding Bishop.

[Sullyute]

Yeah, but imagine how much fun it would be to read the "bloggernacle" reaction if they put in a McKonkie or a Smith or a Benson or something. It may be worth sacrificing another cool accent just to witness the griping.

LOL. There is a Packer in the 1st Q of 70! I have to admit that there is a sadistic part of me that would get a hardy laugh from seeing the collective groan that would emanate out of the bloggernacle if there is any whiff of nepotism in the appointment.

[Scorcho]

spoke to my old man today. he had a brush with greatness and was excited to tell me about it.

my pops lives in Kyle Whittingham's stake and runs into him on occasion. Whitt was at a church gathering last night and my dad got to schmooze with him. Pops went a little over the top and told him, "you're the best coach in America" Whitt said, "Ï don't know about that."

And then dad told me they had just called Whitt to the Stake High Council.

My first thought was crap, he doesn't have time for that. Why would they do that to him? I hope Whitt's career doesn't go the way of Brandon Doman after they called him to be a bishop?

[Rocker Ute]

spoke to my old man today. he had a brush with greatness and was excited to tell me about it.

my pops lives in Kyle Whittingham's stake and runs into him on occasion. Whitt was at a church gathering last night and my dad got to schmooze with him. Pops went a little over the top and told him, "you're the best coach in America" Whitt said, "Ï don't know about that."

And then dad told me they had just called Whitt to the Stake High Council.

My first thought was crap, he doesn't have time for that. Why would they do that to him? I hope Whitt's career doesn't go the way of Brandon Doman after they called him to be a bishop?

Actually they just gave him the easiest call ever. Give a talk a month, sit in a few meetings... Follow up on a few things here or there. That's about it.

[Utebiquitous]

Thank you Drum. I'll read the comments. Appreciate reading of your approach - love what you're doing with the youth and wish my 16-year-old was in your class.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Actually they just gave him the easiest call ever. Give a talk a month, sit in a few meetings... Follow up on a few things here or there. That's about it.

Given Coach Whitt's penchant for playing it safe with a lead, seems like he'd give one as good of a chance of a dissenting vote in a Court of Love, as any.

[LA Ute]

Interesting but not very helpful. The guy pontificates and teases us with the idea of inoculation without ever providing an example of it - either his own thoughts on how it ought to be done or someone else's. I'm interested. I have friends and family who I try to inoculate but frankly I often lean to the side this writer somewhat criticizes. I believe prophets have erred and I'm all right with that. I do agree that the majority of church members are not all right with this perspective because I've shared it with a few friends and they cannot get their arms around Joseph was wrong about polygamy. I have no problem viewing him as a prophet but also having the opinion that he blew it. There's some nuance to my view but my point isn't to go into it.

Anyway, how is inoculation working for any of you. LA? Drum? I'd love a perspective or two.

Stand by. I'll be back with answers as soon as I come back down from the mountain. :onalimb:

[LA Ute]

Interesting but not very helpful. The guy pontificates and teases us with the idea of inoculation without ever providing an example of it - either his own thoughts on how it ought to be done or someone else's. I'm interested. I have friends and family who I try to inoculate but frankly I often lean to the side this writer somewhat criticizes. I believe prophets have erred and I'm all right with that. I do agree that the majority of church members are not all right with this perspective because I've shared it with a few friends and they cannot get their arms around Joseph was wrong about polygamy. I have no problem viewing him as a prophet but also having the opinion that he blew it. There's some nuance to my view but my point isn't to go into it.

Anyway, how is inoculation working for any of you. LA? Drum? I'd love a perspective or two.

I wish I had the magic bullet for you. 'biq, but all I can offer is a pretty simple approach. (I was once taught the the object of all critical analysis is to simplify the complex. So I've got that going for me.) Here's how I try to do it. You'll have to ask my kids how well it has worked for them.

1. The foundation. My kids have questions, and so do I. (One of them had a polygamy question that a young Seminary teacher failed badly at answering.) I simply say that for me, the foundational claims are valid. I'm convinced of all of them: Jesus' divine "sonship" and status as redeemer of all mankind; the divinity of Joseph Smith's mission (but not of Joseph himself) -- including the First Vision, the BofM, all the angelic visitations (Moroni; John the Baptist; Peter James and John; Elijah; Moses; and the rest) and the divinity of the church today, meaning it's Christ's church and the men leading it, although imperfect, are the men He wants leading it. This is basic testimony stuff. I buy it all. I add to that my experience, e.g., the impressions my own church service have left on me and what those experiences have taught me.

2. The missing stuff. Throw into this pile learning as much as I can, from sources I trust, things like polygamy and all its facets, the priesthood ban, what is the eternal status of gays (because their marriages can't be recognized in light of stated church doctrine), and a few others. (I expect to be scratching my head about polygamy for a long, long time.)

3. The balance and reconciliation. I am so convinced of the foundational matters -- all of which can be reconciled with the missing stuff, IMO -- and so impressed by the experiential learning, that I can comfortably live with the missing stuff. In short, I'm going to be patient. I liked this very much, from the blog post I linked to earlier (http://dinosaursarefun.blogspot.com/2015/05/how-to-stay-mormon-when-youre-tired-of.html):


An institute teacher shared this with me years ago, and it's a FANTASTIC analogy. Your testimony is like a rock wall .... Everyone is constantly building to their walls, stone by stone. And every now and then, you may stumble upon a stone and not see exactly where it fits. It may be labeled "gay marriage" or "visiting teaching" or "hymns are boring" ... that doesn't mean you abandon the wall. It means you set the stone aside and keep building with what you DO know. And as you build, you may suddenly see where that stone fits....everyone's [wall] will look completely different, and have different foundations, but all of them are still valid. It can be frustrating to feel sometimes like you're surrounded by stones you don't understand. But hang in there. You'll find their place eventually.

So I have a polygamy stone sitting on the ground by my wall. Incidentally, one of the stones that is already in my wall is the example of so many people who lived under polygamy. I've got ancestors who were astonishingly faithful about it and about the other aspects of life as a faithful Latter-day Saint. I know a lot about some of them and they were wonderful, giving and committed people. One great-great grandmother came across the plains as an orphan at age 12, married, at age 17, a man aged 31 who already had two wives, and had six kids with him. The kids all became awesome people. her husband was a pretty important early leader who served as president of the St. George Temple. (His portrait hangs there to this day!) After the Manifesto she was in her 70s and went to live with my great-grandmother. Her husband, by then also elderly, came to visit once a month. I think about those people all the time, and it gives me pause to see how faithfully and cheerfully she and they lived. How on earth did she do it? I am very much looking forward to meeting her someday and learning her story.

That's my approach. I'll know in 70-80 years how well it worked.

So like I said, it's simple. Testimony + allowing myself to have questions + patience.

1470

[Utebiquitous]

Terrific stuff - both your list of three and the rock wall. Thanks to both of you. Lowell, I line up with you on all three but I've never articulated it as well as you do.

[LA Ute]

I don't think I gave enough attention to the difficult issues, which would be part of step 2. I've found the "Gospel Topics" page in the LDS.org site to be a good source for the church's official position on the topics requiring "inoculation." I wish I had known these things when I was a teen. (But there was no Internet then.) This is what is on that page right now. It allows someone to decide, on an informed and individual basis, which rocks go into the wall and which ones will have to wait.

Are Mormons Christian? (https://www.lds.org/topics/christians?lang=eng)
Becoming Like God (https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng)
Book of Mormon and DNA Studies (https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng)
Book of Mormon Translation (https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng)
First Vision Accounts (https://www.lds.org/topics/first-vision-accounts?lang=eng)
Peace and Violence among 19th-Century Latter-day Saints (https://www.lds.org/topics/peace-and-violence-among-19th-century-latter-day-saints?lang=eng)
Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints?lang=eng)
Race and the Priesthood (https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng)
Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham (https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng)

It works for me, anyway.

[DrumNFeather]

Thank you Drum. I'll read the comments. Appreciate reading of your approach - love what you're doing with the youth and wish my 16-year-old was in your class.

I'll just add one more thing.

Church for me is very much a week to week thing. That is - that's about all I can control. I can't control what goes on in SLC...or what is happening out in the bloggernacle etc. What I can control is how my interaction with my fellow ward members is, and I can control my lesson prep. If I can make someone who maybe feels uncomfortable because they have doubts feel welcome in my EQ lessons, then it's been a great week (I have, and I don't say this to brag, several members of the EQ that will only attend my lessons). If the kids I teach have something sink in, all the better. It's really the only thing I have any control over, and I've wasted a lot of time worrying about things I can't control. That's not to say those things aren't important, it's just that I know where I can have a measurable impact, and that is where I've turned my energy, if that makes sense.

Last week I taught my 11 year olds the Good Samaritan primary lesson...and given that they are at an age where bullying really comes into focus, I really emphasized the part about being kind to other people etc. After I finished, one of the kids blurted something out (not related to the lesson) and another one shot back with "you totally just ruined the spirit of the lesson." For me, that she recognized that there was a spirit there of all is a minor win, and at that age, I take 'em where I can get 'em. Like I said, it's a week to week thing for me, and that's where I put my focus.

[Rocker Ute]

So ironically I guess word got out about my tech presentation I mentioned last week and I was asked to present it to another ward in my stake. This time however they wanted me to talk about what to do if someone you knew texted you inappropriate things and how to handle it. Apparently a young woman was getting texts from a boy trying to get her to sext, she refused and he had been trashing her to all of his friends. Bullying today is super fast and super intense.

So they wanted me to address that without singling her out but frankly I didn't really know the answer. I had some ideas to foster the discussion though but just kind of opened it up.

One thing that kind of shocked the adults was when I said, "Just so you know there is a term for this and sorry for being blunt and crass but it is called 'slut shaming' where people will attempt to shame women EITHER WAY for acquiescing to these demands or for not..."

What came from the kids was awesome though. They talked about sharing these problems with friends and people who cared about them for support. They talked about turning things back on the guy and sharing screen grabs of what he had done. They talked about letting people know what was happening. One guy mentioned that there were serious legal ramifications for a guy attempting to solicit and distribute such things from a minor.

But the best part was now they were all armed to help each other. I pointed out that there were 60 kids in the room all on the same team and to stand up for each other. Successful bully attempts thrive on isolation.

For me, the gospel is about now. Not to dismiss historical and doctrinal issues, but the things in the present are what matters and maybe why some of the issues mentioned by Sancho aren't on kids radars. They have enough crazy stuff to deal with in the present.

Same with that lesson I gave. I can worry about blacks and the priesthood at night, but hopefully that made it will make a difference for kids today.

[LA Ute]

For me, the gospel is about now. Not to dismiss historical and doctrinal issues, but the things in the present are what matters and maybe why some of the issues mentioned by Sancho aren't on kids radars. They have enough crazy stuff to deal with in the present.

Same with that lesson I gave. I can worry about blacks and the priesthood at night, but hopefully that made it will make a difference for kids today.

I think this is a great point. It seems to me that the inoculation becomes necessary at the high school level -- 11th-12th grade. That's when kids get hit with facts they didn't know about. For example, when I was a senior in high school I learned of multiple accounts of the First Vision for the first time in my life. I heard it from a skeptic, and so the information was presented with a bias. I was confused and caught off-guard. The information in the little essay on the First Vision that's now on the church website (which I think is very reasonable and straightforward) would have been nice to know.

I wonder if at some point we should tell kids, "You're going to be hit with information about certain issues in the church. There are responses to all of them that still require an exercise of faith, but they are well-reasoned and candid. Here are those responses." Maybe those discussions are best held in the home. But not every kid has parents who can be relied on to share that information properly.

[DrumNFeather]

I think this is a great point. It seems to me that the inoculation becomes necessary at the high school level -- 11th-12th grade. That's when kids get hit with facts they didn't know about. For example, when I was a senior in high school I learned of multiple accounts of the First Vision for the first time in my life. I heard it from a skeptic, and so the information was presented with a bias. I was confused and caught off-guard. The information in the little essay on the First Vision that's now on the church website (which I think is very reasonable and straightforward) would have been nice to know.

I wonder if at some point we should tell kids, "You're going to be hit with information about certain issues in the church. There are responses to all of them that still require an exercise of faith, but they are well-reasoned and candid. Here are those responses." Maybe those discussions are best held in the home. But not every kid has parents who can be relied on to share that information properly.

I think that this is the essence of why that SS teacher got released for using the church's essay on race and priesthood in a SS lesson. I suspect the kids came home with information the parents either didn't know, or didn't want their kids to know. They griped to the Bishop, and the next thing you know, the teacher is getting released.

[LA Ute]

I think that this is the essence of why that SS teacher got released for using the church's essay on race and priesthood in a SS lesson. I suspect the kids came home with information the parents either didn't know, or didn't want their kids to know. They griped to the Bishop, and the next thing you know, the teacher is getting released.

I do wonder about the real facts of that situation. It makes me suspicious of that teacher's intentions that he went to Peggy Fletcher Stack with his story. That aside, right now the church's approach to "the difficult issues" seems to be to make available the information on the church's side of the matter and let people who are interested find it. That's a reasonable approach. I would not be surprised to see a GC talk that urges parents to read that part of the website and share the information with their children, as appropriate and as they feel inspired to do so. Still, just having that info on the official church website is a big and helpful step, IMO.


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[Scorcho]

So ironically I guess word got out about my tech presentation I mentioned last week and I was asked to present it to another ward in my stake. This time however they wanted me to talk about what to do if someone you knew texted you inappropriate things and how to handle it. Apparently a young woman was getting texts from a boy trying to get her to sext, she refused and he had been trashing her to all of his friends. Bullying today is super fast and super intense.

So they wanted me to address that without singling her out but frankly I didn't really know the answer. I had some ideas to foster the discussion though but just kind of opened it up.

One thing that kind of shocked the adults was when I said, "Just so you know there is a term for this and sorry for being blunt and crass but it is called 'slut shaming' where people will attempt to shame women EITHER WAY for acquiescing to these demands or for not..."

What came from the kids was awesome though. They talked about sharing these problems with friends and people who cared about them for support. They talked about turning things back on the guy and sharing screen grabs of what he had done. They talked about letting people know what was happening. One guy mentioned that there were serious legal ramifications for a guy attempting to solicit and distribute such things from a minor.

But the best part was now they were all armed to help each other. I pointed out that there were 60 kids in the room all on the same team and to stand up for each other. Successful bully attempts thrive on isolation.

For me, the gospel is about now. Not to dismiss historical and doctrinal issues, but the things in the present are what matters and maybe why some of the issues mentioned by Sancho aren't on kids radars. They have enough crazy stuff to deal with in the present.

Same with that lesson I gave. I can worry about blacks and the priesthood at night, but hopefully that made it will make a difference for kids today.

^^^ Utahby5 frontrunner for the Elder Perry vacancy ^^^

:D

[Scorcho]

I do wonder about the real facts of that situation. It makes me suspicious of that teacher's intentions that he went to Peggy Fletcher Stack with his story. That aside, right now the church's approach to "the difficult issues" seems to be to make available the information on the church's side of the matter and let people who are interested find it. That's a reasonable approach. I would not be surprised to see a GC talk that urges parents to read that part of the website and share the information with their children, as appropriate and as they feel inspired to do so. Still, just having that info on the official church website is a big and helpful step, IMO.


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I have a 17 year old girl that is struggling with her faith. We have always been very liberal and open with her (maybe too much). I'm confident that we have done a good job raising her and that this is only a temporary phase, but this certainly isn't without some pain and long suffering. I look at some of the other parents I know that have kids the same age that have sort of forced their kids through the gospel and wonder should I have been more stern? One of the tougher things is watching her LDS friends and YW leaders reach out to her and get rejected too. Ugh.

[LA Ute]

I have a 17 year old girl that is struggling with her faith. We have always been very liberal and open with her (maybe too much). I'm confident that we have done a good job raising her and that this is only a temporary phase, but this certainly isn't without some pain and long suffering. I look at some of the other parents I know that have kids the same age that have sort of forced their kids through the gospel and wonder should I have been more stern? One of the tougher things is watching her LDS friends and YW leaders reach out to her and get rejected too. Ugh.

Raising kids is a marathon, not a sprint, my friend. Hang in there. It's clear you're doing everything you can.

[mUUser]

I have a 17 year old girl that is struggling with her faith. We have always been very liberal and open with her (maybe too much). I'm confident that we have done a good job raising her and that this is only a temporary phase, but this certainly isn't without some pain and long suffering. I look at some of the other parents I know that have kids the same age that have sort of forced their kids through the gospel and wonder should I have been more stern? One of the tougher things is watching her LDS friends and YW leaders reach out to her and get rejected too. Ugh.

You aren't on an island. Our 17 year old daughter struggles with faith as well. Doesn't give us any problems, but, for a truckload of reasons, just isn't interested in connecting with the church. There's no one way....no right way, per se.....to see this through with your child.

[mUUser]

In June, the youth topic is priesthood. There are a couple of lessons that would be solid gold in a student ward in terms of conversation and controversy: (1) following the council of priesthood leaders, and (2) women and the priesthood. This will be the third time I will teach these topics to this group, and I can say they just aren't interested. All the questions we think should be bothering the youth aren't bothering my youth at all. In the rock wall analogy, they have yet to even notice the stones related to these topics. Even when I point the issues out, they are not concerned by them. I think not living in Utah is a part of it. Growing up in SLC, I was used to people challenging my faith in high school. I don't think their peers know enough about Mormonism to challenge their faith.


This hasn't been our experience at all. The internet puts everything out there -- Journal of discourses, historical temple rites, the seedy parts of Joseph's history etc.... -- all of it is out there, and pastors teach their HS students how to challenge the LDS belief system. The church has been MIA in covering any of this with the youth. It's 100 percent up to a parent to prepare them for it.

[Rocker Ute]

^^^ Utahby5 frontrunner for the Elder Perry vacancy ^^^

:D

Nah, I'd be a counterfeit apostle. Oh wait, that didn't sound right...

[DrumNFeather]

So, the EQP unknowingly swiped my lesson on fear for this upcoming week. Any talks from last GC that you'd want to hear dissected? I thought about Elder Perry's with the "counterfeit lifestyle," but I think that would not end well.

[LA Ute]

So, the EQP unknowingly swiped my lesson on fear for this upcoming week. Any talks from last GC that you'd want to hear dissected? I thought about Elder Perry's with the "counterfeit lifestyle," but I think that would not end well.

Pres. Uchtdorf's talk on grace. The evolution of our teachings on that just in my lifetime has been fascinating to watch.


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[LA Ute]

Or this:

"I should like to awaken in everyone a desire to investigate, to make an independent study of religion, and to know for themselves whether or not the teachings of the Mormon church are true. I should like to see everyone prepared to defend the religion of his or her parents, not because it was the religion of our fathers and mothers but because they have found it to be the true religion. If one approaches it with an open mind, with a desire to know the truth, and if one questions with a sincere heart what one hears from time to time, he or she will be on the road to growth and service. There are altogether too many people in the world who are willing to accept as true whatever is printed in a book or delivered from a pulpit. Their faith never goes below the surface soil of authority. I plead with everyone I meet that they may drive their faith down through that soil and get hold of the solid truth, that they may be able to withstand the winds and storm of indecision and of doubt, of opposition and persecution. Then, and only then, will we be able to defend our religion successfully. When I speak of defending our religion, I do not mean such defense as an army makes on the battlefield but the defense of a clean and upright and virtuous life lived in harmony with an intelligent belief and understanding of the gospel."

--Source: Edwin B. Firmage's "An Abundant Life: The Memoirs of Hugh B. Brown" (1988)

And: "...to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God." 2 Nephi 9:29.

[LA Ute]

Wow.

https://ldswomanatthewell.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/hello-world/

[Scorcho]

I teach a group of 14 year olds (Our 13-14 year old group is too large for one class).

Today I skipped the recommended lessons and went with Rocker's Utes four points about technology (earlier in this thread). My class was pretty engaged they all wanted to show off about how much they knew about Snap Chat, Tinder, Facebook etc.

Based on our discussion, there appears to be an ongoing battle with youth and parents over technology. Some parents are monitoring everything while others hardly anything. There are still a couple of kids in my class that the parents haven't allowed a phone yet. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong way to do this.

We went over 4 or 5 different scenarios about what you would do if this happens. I flat out asked some of the boys and girls what would they do if someone asked for a naked personal picture. While none of them said they would take one and send it, no one considered letting their parents, bishop or YM/YW leader know either. They are just so vulnerable at that age.

I feel lucky I'm an adult facing these challenges, and not 14.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

I teach a group of 14 year olds (Our 13-14 year old group is too large for one class).

Today I skipped the recommended lessons and went with Rocker's Utes four points about technology (earlier in this thread). My class was pretty engaged they all wanted to show off about how much they knew about Snap Chat, Tinder, Facebook etc.

Based on our discussion, there appears to be an ongoing battle with youth and parents over technology. Some parents are monitoring everything while others hardly anything. There are still a couple of kids in my class that the parents haven't allowed a phone yet. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong way to do this.

We went over 4 or 5 different scenarios about what you would do if this happens. I flat out asked some of the boys and girls what would they do if someone asked for a naked personal picture. While none of them said they would take one and send it, no one considered letting their parents, bishop or YM/YW leader know either. They are just so vulnerable at that age.

I feel lucky I'm an adult facing these challenges, and not 14.

I can't wait for the dinner conversation where it comes out as "Bro. Scorcho asked me if I would ever send a naked picture to him. Or something."

[Rocker Ute]

I teach a group of 14 year olds (Our 13-14 year old group is too large for one class).

Today I skipped the recommended lessons and went with Rocker's Utes four points about technology (earlier in this thread). My class was pretty engaged they all wanted to show off about how much they knew about Snap Chat, Tinder, Facebook etc.

Based on our discussion, there appears to be an ongoing battle with youth and parents over technology. Some parents are monitoring everything while others hardly anything. There are still a couple of kids in my class that the parents haven't allowed a phone yet. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong way to do this.

We went over 4 or 5 different scenarios about what you would do if this happens. I flat out asked some of the boys and girls what would they do if someone asked for a naked personal picture. While none of them said they would take one and send it, no one considered letting their parents, bishop or YM/YW leader know either. They are just so vulnerable at that age.

I feel lucky I'm an adult facing these challenges, and not 14.


Glad to hear this. I'm glad people are talking to kids about this stuff. On a side note, this little last minute presentation (the YM president for the first time I presented asked me to do it just a few days before the meeting... so I was panicked about not having enough time to prepare) seems to have taken a life of its own. Word has spread through the Mormon network and I've now gotten a few calls outside my stake to do this same presentation in their wards. For now I've punted it back because you are technically supposed to get Stake Presidency approval to have someone from outside your stake to present. I don't mind doing the presentation, I just don't want it to turn into some monster, if that makes sense.

Instead I have provided my slideshow that anyone is free to use or build their own. I personally feel it will be way more effective to do it as you have, Scorcho, from someone they know and trust. So, here is the presentation if anyone else wants some ideas. It is nowhere near comprehensive, and many of the pictures are cues for me to share examples that won't make sense... but whatevs: http://prezi.com/uuox3azl-10h/?utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=copy&rc=ex0share

Edit: I should also mention the Spiral Jetty slide, as almost no one I've presented to, adult or children knew about it, and nobody knew the details about it. The Spiral Jetty is the most famous work of art from the state of Utah. Robert Smithson in 1970 built the jetty out of black basalt rock in a remote location of the Great Salt Lake, a location he chose because of the shallow water and because there is an algae in the water there that turns the water blood red. Known for monument art, he was fascinated by the concept of entropy and decay. He wanted the jetty to eventually disappear, which it did in the early 1980s when flooding raised the level of the GSL and it was buried under water for a couple of decades. After some prolonged droughts the jetty reappeared, now coated in salt crystals.

My point in sharing that was 1. Kids need some culture, 2. Throughout existence we have all always kind of depended on entropy or things decaying and going away and we had to work hard to preserve things. But we could feel comfortable that embarrassing things from our youth would disappear. Technology today has made things just the opposite. Things don't degrade and don't disappear. 3. Somewhat against Smithson's wishes, many years later his work reappeared and the same thing can happen to you. (Side note: although one might rightfully argue that he would have been okay with what has transpired, particularly because of the change that happened to the jetty while under water).

Just realized that is a central talking point of that first principal and required explanation. There are images that are personal stories, so no point in explaining those.

[UtahsMrSports]

I teach a group of 14 year olds (Our 13-14 year old group is too large for one class).

Today I skipped the recommended lessons and went with Rocker's Utes four points about technology (earlier in this thread). My class was pretty engaged they all wanted to show off about how much they knew about Snap Chat, Tinder, Facebook etc.

Based on our discussion, there appears to be an ongoing battle with youth and parents over technology. Some parents are monitoring everything while others hardly anything. There are still a couple of kids in my class that the parents haven't allowed a phone yet. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong way to do this.

We went over 4 or 5 different scenarios about what you would do if this happens. I flat out asked some of the boys and girls what would they do if someone asked for a naked personal picture. While none of them said they would take one and send it, no one considered letting their parents, bishop or YM/YW leader know either. They are just so vulnerable at that age.

I feel lucky I'm an adult facing these challenges, and not 14.

Same here. I was thinking about my life at 14, and remembered that was the age when I joined the cool kids club and got the newest and hippest piece of technology for my birthday; a portable cd player. To this day, my younger siblings give me grief over this. One of the special features was that it had a heat resistant lid. Darn thing skipped if you moved it at all. That was only 16 years ago. I cant imagine what me and my generation would ahve done with the modern gadgets and gizmos.

[UtahsMrSports]

Glad to hear this. I'm glad people are talking to kids about this stuff. On a side note, this little last minute presentation (the YM president for the first time I presented asked me to do it just a few days before the meeting... so I was panicked about not having enough time to prepare) seems to have taken a life of its own. Word has spread through the Mormon network and I've now gotten a few calls outside my stake to do this same presentation in their wards. For now I've punted it back because you are technically supposed to get Stake Presidency approval to have someone from outside your stake to present. I don't mind doing the presentation, I just don't want it to turn into some monster, if that makes sense.

Instead I have provided my slideshow that anyone is free to use or build their own. I personally feel it will be way more effective to do it as you have, Scorcho, from someone they know and trust. So, here is the presentation if anyone else wants some ideas. It is nowhere near comprehensive, and many of the pictures are cues for me to share examples that won't make sense... but whatevs: http://prezi.com/uuox3azl-10h/?utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=copy&rc=ex0share

Edit: I should also mention the Spiral Jetty slide, as almost no one I've presented to, adult or children knew about it, and nobody knew the details about it. The Spiral Jetty is the most famous work of art from the state of Utah. Robert Smithson in 1970 built the jetty out of black basalt rock in a remote location of the Great Salt Lake, a location he chose because of the shallow water and because there is an algae in the water there that turns the water blood red. Known for monument art, he was fascinated by the concept of entropy and decay. He wanted the jetty to eventually disappear, which it did in the early 1980s when flooding raised the level of the GSL and it was buried under water for a couple of decades. After some prolonged droughts the jetty reappeared, now coated in salt crystals.

My point in sharing that was 1. Kids need some culture, 2. Throughout existence we have all always kind of depended on entropy or things decaying and going away and we had to work hard to preserve things. But we could feel comfortable that embarrassing things from our youth would disappear. Technology today has made things just the opposite. Things don't degrade and don't disappear. 3. Somewhat against Smithson's wishes, many years later his work reappeared and the same thing can happen to you. (Side note: although one might rightfully argue that he would have been okay with what has transpired, particularly because of the change that happened to the jetty while under water).

Just realized that is a central talking point of that first principal and required explanation. There are images that are personal stories, so no point in explaining those.

Thanks for sharing this. This was awesome to go over and its really neat that it has taken on a life of its own! Im the teachers quorum advisor and I think at some point some variation of this will be a perfect lesson!

[DrumNFeather]

I just passed it along to the YM president it my ward. I'll let you know if anything comes of it.

[LA Ute]

I'm the HC adviser to our stake young women presidency and am trying to be useful to them (it's not easy, they are all dynamos and really don't need advice). I passed this along to the YW pres and we'll see what happens. Maybe we'll fly you down to present. There may be a book in your future. You could be a digital John Bytheway.

[Scratch]

You could be a digital John Bytheway.

That's not a good thing.

[LA Ute]

That's not a good thing.

This is not the time to discourage Rocker. He's on the verge of EFY stardom.

[Rocker Ute]

This is not the time to discourage Rocker. He's on the verge of EFY stardom.

There is no emoticon to express my anger.

[LA Ute]

There is no emoticon to express my anger.

You need to think bigger. EFY is:

1476

[Scorcho]

Okay, I'm in. I'll give it a run on Sunday. Either that or give the women and the priesthood lesson to them for the third time.

Keep posting lesson plans for me, Rocker.

Sancho,

I hope you are not skipping the "How can I participate effectively in the councils of the church?" lesson. That one has the youth on the edge of their seat with excitement.

:rolleyes:

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

The bishop had asked that we spend three weeks of June taking the Teacher's Quorum through this fun one hour and 20 minute Q&A with Elder and Sister Bednar (https://www.lds.org/youth/activities/spiritual-strength/scriptures-and-prophets/face-to-face-with-elder-and-sister-bednar?lang=eng). We're two weeks down and I've sat through about fifteen minutes of it. Bless her heart, but there is just nothing easy about listing to Sister Bednar. One of the few questions I've endured through was directed at Sister Bednar about a girl who struggles with her self esteem in regards to her looks. At the end, Elder Bednar, steps in with good intentions, but proceeds to make the following comments towards his wife:

-She's wrinkly
-Sister Bednar is a nice looking elderly woman
-Sister Bednar was gorgeous as a young woman, now that beauty is not in her physical attractiveness.
-At her age, there's not another woman on the Earth as beautiful as Sister Bednar.

What a flirt.

[DrumNFeather]

The bishop had asked that we spend three weeks of June taking the Teacher's Quorum through this fun one hour and 20 minute Q&A with Elder and Sister Bednar (https://www.lds.org/youth/activities/spiritual-strength/scriptures-and-prophets/face-to-face-with-elder-and-sister-bednar?lang=eng). We're two weeks down and I've sat through about fifteen minutes of it. Bless her heart, but there is just nothing easy about listing to Sister Bednar. One of the few questions I've endured through was directed at Sister Bednar about a girl who struggles with her self esteem in regards to her looks. At the end, Elder Bednar, steps in with good intentions, but proceeds to make the following comments towards his wife:

-She's wrinkly
-Sister Bednar is a nice looking elderly woman
-Sister Bednar was gorgeous as a young woman, now that beauty is not in her physical attractiveness.
-At her age, there's not another woman on the Earth as beautiful as Sister Bednar.

What a flirt.

There's a good lesson in here for the youth...probably not the one Elder Bednar intended.

[LA Ute]

Great story.

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865630998/Unusual-family-history-miracle-links-the-living-and-the-dead.html?ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.patheos.com%2Fblogs %2Fdanpeterson%2F2015%2F06%2Fwant-to-read-an-amazing-and-inspiring-story-about-family-history.html

[LA Ute]

I guess this goes here. Cinco Paul was actually in our same ward back in the day. I'd lost touch with him. His wife is a physician. Neat family.

http://janariess.religionnews.com/2015/07/09/despicable-me-creator-on-mormonism-minions-and-the-best-calling-in-the-church/


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[LA Ute]

This is a good piece from long ago, from an unlikely source:

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/001-94-99.pdf

[UTEopia]

I have watched this Cecil the Lion story with some interest. I am not a hunter. I do not fish. I am not a gun owner. I am posing this question here, because it is a question I ask myself with respect to some other issues. According to the Bible, man was given dominion over the earth and all the creatures on the earth. I personally believe that dominion in this context means responsibility to care for and preserve God's creations. At one time there was a need for hunting and fishing for food rather than sport. It is still necessary in some parts of the world. Will God hold us accountable for not caring for and preserving His/Her creations?

[LA Ute]

I have watched this Cecil the Lion story with some interest. I am not a hunter. I do not fish. I am not a gun owner. I am posing this question here, because it is a question I ask myself with respect to some other issues. According to the Bible, man was given dominion over the earth and all the creatures on the earth. I personally believe that dominion in this context means responsibility to care for and preserve God's creations. At one time there was a need for hunting and fishing for food rather than sport. It is still necessary in some parts of the world. Will God hold us accountable for not caring for and preserving His/Her creations?

I'm like you, a non-hunting non-fishing non-gun owner. I am fine with hunting and fishing if the hunter actually eats the meat, but not trophy hunting, which I think is disgusting. I don't see it as a major wrong or sin but it's still a wrong IMO. Yes, I recognize the need to thin herds and the role hunting plays in wildlife conservation. I still find photos of grinning hunters holding the head of an exotic animal they've just killed revolting.

Lest anyone confuse me for one of those people who care more about animals than people, although I find tropy hunting revolting, I find what Planned Parenthood apparently does with discarded human fetuses horrifying and evil.

[mUUser]

I have watched this Cecil the Lion story with some interest. I am not a hunter. I do not fish. I am not a gun owner. I am posing this question here, because it is a question I ask myself with respect to some other issues. According to the Bible, man was given dominion over the earth and all the creatures on the earth. I personally believe that dominion in this context means responsibility to care for and preserve God's creations. At one time there was a need for hunting and fishing for food rather than sport. It is still necessary in some parts of the world. Will God hold us accountable for not caring for and preserving His/Her creations?


Don't hunt, fish, or own a gun, but strongly believe in the rights of responsible gun ownership. But my guess is he wants to puke when He sees this. So yeah, I think we'll be held accountable for not exercising responsible stewardship over his creation.

[UTEopia]

I guess this goes here. Cinco Paul was actually in our same ward back in the day. I'd lost touch with him. His wife is a physician. Neat family.

http://janariess.religionnews.com/2015/07/09/despicable-me-creator-on-mormonism-minions-and-the-best-calling-in-the-church/


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My daughter and her husband just moved from the LDS Ward where one of the writers currently lives. Apparently a few of the characters have been given names of some people the writer and his wife don't get along too well with.

[NorthwestUteFan]

My daughter and her husband just moved from the LDS Ward where one of the writers currently lives. Apparently a few of the characters have been given names of some people the writer and his wife don't get along too well with.

Which minion is Lowell?

[LA Ute]

Which minion is Lowell?

ISadly, I did not get to know him well enough to qualify for his list of people he doesn't get along with. I would have loved it.

I'd be this minion. Picture this with "Utes" on the jersey:

1527

[LA Ute]

I'm just posting this because I think it's beautiful. The author, amazingly, is only 22 years old.

Why I Stay a Mormon When Many Friends Have Left (http://www.igobyari.com/2015/07/why-i-stay-mormon-when-many-friends.html)

[Ma'ake]

I have watched this Cecil the Lion story with some interest. I am not a hunter. I do not fish. I am not a gun owner. I am posing this question here, because it is a question I ask myself with respect to some other issues. According to the Bible, man was given dominion over the earth and all the creatures on the earth. I personally believe that dominion in this context means responsibility to care for and preserve God's creations. At one time there was a need for hunting and fishing for food rather than sport. It is still necessary in some parts of the world. Will God hold us accountable for not caring for and preserving His/Her creations?

Great question, and I think we will be held accountable. In the history of western religion, there are quite a few previous commandments that are now viewed differently. A lot of things in Leviticus, Eye-for-an-Eye, stoning adulteresses to death, etc. I would add the death penalty to a list of practices we should probably leave in the past.

[LA Ute]

Great question, and I think we will be held accountable. In the history of western religion, there are quite a few previous commandments that are now viewed differently. A lot of things in Leviticus, Eye-for-an-Eye, stoning adulteresses to death, etc. I would add the death penalty to a list of practices we should probably leave in the past.

I think the death penalty is a political issue, not a religious one. Meaning there's no biblical requirement to keep it or to abolish it. I have always been ambivalent about the DP. In some cases it just seems necessary/right, but the chance that an innocent may be executed is very disturbing.


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[UTEopia]

I think the death penalty is a political issue, not a religious one. Meaning there's no biblical requirement to keep it or to abolish it. I have always been ambivalent about the DP. In some cases it just seems necessary/right, but the chance that an innocent may be executed is very disturbing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have gone back and forth on the death penalty. I'm probably 99% opposed and then I think of what my mindset would be if someone murdered my wife, children or one of my grandchildren. I leave the 1% open because I cannot absolutely say that I would be opposed to it in one of those situations.

[Utebiquitous]

I'm with Ma'ake on this one. Let's leave the death penalty behind. I just can't square the practice with the teachings of Jesus. Uteopia, your one percent statement does reflect some of my own thinking. It's easy for me to throw out a platitude but I still think we should abolish it. Societies need to be above killing their citizens. One exception - if a convicted/confessed murderer asked to be executed, I'd allow it. I believe Arthur Gary Bishop asked to be killed.

[Rocker Ute]

I'm with Ma'ake on this one. Let's leave the death penalty behind. I just can't square the practice with the teachings of Jesus. Uteopia, your one percent statement does reflect some of my own thinking. It's easy for me to throw out a platitude but I still think we should abolish it. Societies need to be above killing their citizens. One exception - if a convicted/confessed murderer asked to be executed, I'd allow it. I believe Arthur Gary Bishop asked to be killed.

No death penalty. Too much room for error, wrongful deaths and we have the capacity to incarcerate people through their mortal life. I'm with the others in thinking this doesn't line up with the gospel of Jesus Christ in any way.

[Ma'ake]

I'm just posting this because I think it's beautiful. The author, amazingly, is only 22 years old.
Why I Stay a Mormon When Many Friends Have Left (http://www.igobyari.com/2015/07/why-i-stay-mormon-when-many-friends.html)


An impressive, compelling read, even for a heathen like me.

One thing this piece really exposes is how social we are as creatures, how our thinking, "testimony" and ultimately our salvation (in the Christian sense) is dependent upon the influence of others, but when it comes down to it, one's destiny is almost entirely an individual thing.

When I decided to go in a different direction, I really didn't talk to anyone about it, or try to get others to join me. I did a whole lotta soul searching, really wrestled with the decision, then made it, felt a lot of lingering guilt and anxiety, which gradually diminished and I began to get spiritual "nourishment" in other ways, from other experiences.

In retrospect, I would make the same course adjustment in my life, and with the avalanche of information available today, I would probably not have second-guessed myself as much.

On this article, my hunch is the folks around this young woman who've left seem much greater in number and impact, I guess I'm a little skeptical the out-migration is as strong as she feels. But it's certainly impacting her, and her finding her bearings is impressive.

[concerned]

An impressive, compelling read, even for a heathen like me.

One thing this piece really exposes is how social we are as creatures, how our thinking, "testimony" and ultimately our salvation (in the Christian sense) is dependent upon the influence of others, but when it comes down to it, one's destiny is almost entirely an individual thing.

When I decided to go in a different direction, I really didn't talk to anyone about it, or try to get others to join me. I did a whole lotta soul searching, really wrestled with the decision, then made it, felt a lot of lingering guilt and anxiety, which gradually diminished and I began to get spiritual "nourishment" in other ways, from other experiences.

In retrospect, I would make the same course adjustment in my life, and with the avalanche of information available today, I would probably not have second-guessed myself as much.

On this article, my hunch is the folks around this young woman who've left seem much greater in number and impact, I guess I'm a little skeptical the out-migration is as strong as she feels. But it's certainly impacting her, and her finding her bearings is impressive.

Hey you heathen--give up this religious thread and start doing practice reports. Thank you.

[Utebiquitous]

Amen! Get going Ma'ake.

[Diehard Ute]

The death penalty is a pointless thing. It's more expensive than life, it doesn't deter crime and it's not reversible when we make mistakes (and we do)

The idea that it benefits the victim's is what our justice system isn't supposed to be about. That's revenge not justice.

And I know a few things about our sense of justice sometimes being off. I often have to remind myself it's not personal, even when I was the victim


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[Ma'ake]

Hey you heathen--give up this religious thread and start doing practice reports. Thank you.

LOL - Who's the Director of Football OPS? They're usually the cops. Isn't that Freddy? I can get past Freddy, for sure, especially since I'm not "media".

[Diehard Ute]

LOL - Who's the Director of Football OPS? They're usually the cops. Isn't that Freddy? I can get past Freddy, for sure, especially since I'm not "media".

It's Jeff Rudy. Fred is director of player personnel.


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[Rocker Ute]

LOL - Who's the Director of Football OPS? They're usually the cops. Isn't that Freddy? I can get past Freddy, for sure, especially since I'm not "media".

You are media now. Tell them you are a special reporter for the premier Utah Athletics information site, Utahby5. Then look soulfully in Rudy's eyes like Bill Marcroft used to do through tinted glasses.

[NorthwestUteFan]

You are media now. Tell them you are a special reporter for the premier Utah Athletics information site, Utahby5. Then look soulfully in Rudy's eyes like Bill Marcroft used to do through tinted glasses.

Unfortunately they will check Twitter and see MooseKnuckles' tweets, and slowly close the door in Ma'ake's face while scowling slightly.

[LA Ute]

This is an interesting read. A full transcript of an autobiographical speech by Mike Otterson, the head of the church Public Affairs Department:

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/full-transcript-michael-otterson-address-at-fair-mormon-conference


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[LA Ute]

I didn't see this posted anywhere else. Looks like an interesting book:


First Principles and Ordinances: The Fourth Article of Faith in Light of the Temple (http://www.amazon.com/First-Principles-Ordinances-Fourth-Temple/dp/0842528806/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439676617&sr=8-1&keywords=First+Principles+and+Ordinances%3A+The+Fo urth+Article+of+Faith+in+Light+of+the+Temple)


A review here:


http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/not-leaving-and-going-on-to-perfection/


Has anyone read it yet?


I thought Brown's self-description was interesting:



a “practicing, believing, temple-going Latter-day Saint Christian who is sealed by temple ordinances to his family, … a scientist, a spouse, a parent, a child, a physician, a believer, a starry-eyed wonderer, and a sometimes melancholy remorseful human being who is struggling to make his way in a fallen world”


This is a different type of book from the one he wrote about death, "In Heaven As It Is on Earth."

[LA Ute]

I'm very happy to see this.

"What You Will Read About in the New Institute Manual on Early Church History"

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/what-you-will-read-about-in-the-new-institute-manual-on-early-church-history/


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[LA Ute]

I thought this was interesting. It is about the Adam and Eve story.

http://www.plonialmonimormon.com/2015/08/the-ecstatic-adam.html?m=1


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Elder Richard G. Scott passed away this morning. (Sorry for the church talk.)

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=35787105&nid=148&title=elder-richard-g-scott-dies-at-86&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory

[LA Ute]

Elder Richard G. Scott passed away this morning. (Sorry for the church talk.)

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=35787105&nid=148&title=elder-richard-g-scott-dies-at-86&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory

Wow. I wonder if this means three new apostles next month?

[UBlender]

Wow. I wonder if this means three new apostles next month?

At the last general conference I commented to my wife that we could very easily be seeing four new apostles within a year or so, based on the observation that Elders Perry, Scott and Hale and President Packer all looked so frail and sick. I hate that this has almost proven true already.

[kccougar]

Elder Richard G. Scott passed away this morning. (Sorry for the church talk.)

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=35787105&nid=148&title=elder-richard-g-scott-dies-at-86&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory


Why are you apologizing for church talk in the Religion Forum?

[Sullyute]

He was apologizing in advance for bringing you back to the board.

:rofl:

[LA Ute]

Why are you apologizing for church talk in the Religion Forum?

Joking. If you were more of a student of this board you'd get it.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

This is an enlightening interview with Ruth Lybbert Renlund, Elder Renlund's wife. She discusses her history, her ambitions, the challenges she faced as a working mother in the church, and talks about her independent strength. She is an orthodox believer and certainly is nuanced and unorthoprax in many ways, but to be honest I believe her life experience as a working mother is more typical of women today than the church's ideal, which leans toward stay-at-home moms. She gives voice to the challenges many of our wives have experienced over the years.

She is a strong and smart woman, as is their daughter. They are wonderful people, and I know Dale will be a positive influence on the Post-Packer church.

http://www.mormonwomen.com/2010/05/12/just-call-me-ruth/

[LA Ute]

This is an enlightening interview with Ruth Lybbert Renlund, Elder Renlund's wife. She discusses her history, her ambitions, the challenges she faced as a working mother in the church, and talks about her independent strength. She is an orthodox believer and certainly is nuanced and unorthoprax in many ways, but to be honest I believe her life experience as a working mother is more typical of women today than the church's ideal, which leans toward stay-at-home moms. She gives voice to the challenges many of our wives have experienced over the years.

She is a strong and smart woman, as is their daughter. They are wonderful people, and I know Dale will be a positive influence on the Post-Packer church.

http://www.mormonwomen.com/2010/05/12/just-call-me-ruth/

They also had "only" one child, which I think gives them valuable perspective, and I have heard they are registered Democrats.

[Rocker Ute]

They also had "only" one child, which I think gives them valuable perspective, and I have heard they are registered Democrats.

GASP! Do you think there are more of them among us? ;)

[LA Ute]

GASP! Do you think there are more of them among us? ;)

I'm holding on to my testimony despite this news.

[Rocker Ute]

NWUF's 'post-Packer' comment reminds me, have I told my dad's President Packer story... also known as "How to avoid being Stake President with one simple joke"?

[Senioritis]

NWUF's 'post-Packer' comment reminds me, have I told my dad's President Packer story... also known as "How to avoid being Stake President with one simple joke"?

Well??? We're waiting...

[Rocker Ute]

So they are calling a new stake president in my parents stake. For those of you unfamiliar with the process two general authorities show up and they do a bunch of interviews of people in the stake in one day to find the next guy. Somehow my dad's name makes it on the list of those to be interviewed. He had what he describes as a nice interview with the first GA and then next up he is to meet Pres Packer.

My dad sits down with him and says hello and President Packer says, "It says here you are an attorney. What kind of attorney are you?" My dad joked, "Well I'd like to think a good one..."

President Packer didn't even crack a smile, said, "That will be all." That was the end of the interview.

So now you know what to say if you are ever in that position.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

GASP! Do you think there are more of them among us? ;)

The 6.67% now have equal representation! Yes!

In related news, my wife's aunt, whom we both know, got the position at byu. Her final interview was with Dale Renlund. She came away thoroughly impressed by him in every possible way. Her first interview was with a Packer-type, whose first question was "How does your husband feel about you applying for this position?"

[mUUser]

This is an enlightening interview with Ruth Lybbert Renlund, Elder Renlund's wife. She discusses her history, her ambitions, the challenges she faced as a working mother in the church, and talks about her independent strength. She is an orthodox believer and certainly is nuanced and unorthoprax in many ways, but to be honest I believe her life experience as a working mother is more typical of women today than the church's ideal, which leans toward stay-at-home moms. She gives voice to the challenges many of our wives have experienced over the years.

She is a strong and smart woman, as is their daughter. They are wonderful people, and I know Dale will be a positive influence on the Post-Packer church.

http://www.mormonwomen.com/2010/05/12/just-call-me-ruth/


Awesome. My wife has swam upstream in the traditional LDS culture her entire career.

I'm reminded of one occasion I was talking with a bunch of guys in the lobby during sacrament meeting, and said my job as a stay-at-home parent was easier/less stressful than her job -- and it wasn't even close.

The next sunday 3 ladies approached her with a "what the hell?" conversation. I guess some of boys went home and let the cat out of the bag. Great stuff.

[LA Ute]

This is interesting. I wonder how the general principles Francis states will be applied?

Catholicism can and must change, Francis forcefully tells Italian church gathering

http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/catholicism-can-and-must-change-francis-forcefully-tells-italian-church-gathering#.VkIN_sriclM.twitter


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[mUUser]

Several years ago there was a service available that would send you a daily email to help you read scriptures. Basically, you told them which of the standard works you wanted to read, and how many days you wanted to finish. In turn, they would email you the correct amount to read for each day.

I've poked around and haven't been able to find that service. Is anyone aware of such a thing?

[LA Ute]

Several years ago there was a service available that would send you a daily email to help you read scriptures. Basically, you told them which of the standard works you wanted to read, and how many days you wanted to finish. In turn, they would email you the correct amount to read for each day.

I've poked around and haven't been able to find that service. Is anyone aware of such a thing?

I subscribe to something called "Daily Messages." They're one or two-line quotes from GC talks. I don't recall how I signed up but I think it's on LDS.org somewhere. The scripture thing may be there too -- I used to get it as well.

[tooblue]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131120-science-native-american-people-migration-siberia-genetics/

"Great Surprise"—Native Americans Have West Eurasian Origins


Nearly one-third of Native American genes come from west Eurasian people linked to the Middle East and Europe, rather than entirely from East Asians as previously thought, according to a newly sequenced genome.

[SeattleUte]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131120-science-native-american-people-migration-siberia-genetics/

"Great Surprise"—Native Americans Have West Eurasian Origins

:rolleyes:


Based on the arm bone of a 24,000-year-old Siberian youth

Troll.

[tooblue]

:rolleyes:



Troll.

They are all trolls ... like climate scientists I guess lol:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7481/full/nature12736.html

[LA Ute]

"Half of disbelief in God in the world is caused by people who make religion look ugly due to their bad conduct and ignorance."

Al-Ghazali (d. AD 1111)


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[SeattleUte]

This should be a surprise to no one. Population genetics is an absolute mess of a science. It's like nutrition - no one really knows anything.

This article is interesting, but it has nothing to do with the BOM. If you read even the first clause of the first sentence of the article, you'd see it's based on a 24,000 year old arm bone of a Siberian child. If you are inclined to condescend to such debates, however, you might point out that the article actually undermines BOM historicity as it provides more support for the land bridge being the sole means of migration of prehistoric peoples to the Americas. Ignore tooblue. He's a cynical troll.

[Ma'ake]

This article is interesting, but it has nothing to do with the BOM. If you read even the first clause of the first sentence of the article, you'd see it's based on a 24,000 year old arm bone of a Siberian child...

I was going to respond, but it looked to me like tooblue was being kind of a false troll.

Genetic anthropology is a mostly uncompleted puzzle, but as we get more pieces connected, it's a fascinating picture.

One of our researchers, a physician from Tibet, was involved in a genetics study that found the genetic mutation that allows Tibetans to better tolerate very high elevations is one they inherited from their Denosovan ancestors, an extinct primate group like the Neanderthals.

Polynesians, who appear to have migrated from Formosa (Taiwan) to New Zealand, and then across the Pacific, are thought to be about 15% Denosovan, which might explain some of their unusual physical capabilities, such as pain tolerance and ability to deal with hot & cold extremes. As a group, they also withstood extreme environmental pressure, ie, crossing thousands of miles in canoes with limited supplies of food, which explains their low metabolism and tendency toward diabetes, today.

Here's a curveball on BOM historicity: it's no secret the BOM has been suffering from a lack of evidence that the events occurred when they should have.

What if the BOM is to be read and understood more like some of the stories from the Old Testament? Does a lack of historicity invalidate the "truths" in the BOM?

This would be an even bigger change in LDS thought than the ongoing evolution of understanding and acceptances of gays.

Relatively few Christians - or Jews - believe people co-existed with dinosaurs, the 6 day earth creation timeline, the great flood, etc. But these were widely considered literal, quite recently.

[SeattleUte]

I was going to respond, but it looked to me like tooblue was being kind of a false troll.

Genetic anthropology is a mostly uncompleted puzzle, but as we get more pieces connected, it's a fascinating picture.

One of our researchers, a physician from Tibet, was involved in a genetics study that found the genetic mutation that allows Tibetans to better tolerate very high elevations is one they inherited from their Denosovan ancestors, an extinct primate group like the Neanderthals.

Polynesians, who appear to have migrated from Formosa (Taiwan) to New Zealand, and then across the Pacific, are thought to be about 15% Denosovan, which might explain some of their unusual physical capabilities, such as pain tolerance and ability to deal with hot & cold extremes. As a group, they also withstood extreme environmental pressure, ie, crossing thousands of miles in canoes with limited supplies of food, which explains their low metabolism and tendency toward diabetes, today.

Here's a curveball on BOM historicity: it's no secret the BOM has been suffering from a lack of evidence that the events occurred when they should have.

What if the BOM is to be read and understood more like some of the stories from the Old Testament? Does a lack of historicity invalidate the "truths" in the BOM?

This would be an even bigger change in LDS thought than the ongoing evolution of understanding and acceptances of gays.

Relatively few Christians - or Jews - believe people co-existed with dinosaurs, the 6 day earth creation timeline, the great flood, etc. But these were widely considered literal, quite recently.

Allegorical interpretation is deeply personal and I have no quibble with it. But there are material distinctions between the OT and the BOM. For one thing, there was a Ramses, there were Egyptians, same for Assyrians, etc., even if David or Goliath were more akin to Achilles and Hector. There is archeological and corroborative contemporaneous documentary evidence. We've also found scrolls with the OT that are over 2,000 years old, among the Dead Sea scrolls. The OT is a 3,000+ year old phenomenon, the BOM is a nineteenth century phenomenon, if you think science matters. The OT is also a magnificent work of literature, the BOM is not. But I really don't enjoy nor do I find interesting these types of discussions. We're all educated people here and the foregoing just states the obvious. We run out of things to say pretty fast.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Frankly I wish the LDS church would just do what the Community of Christ has done, and make a statement that the BOM is not an historical document, but that it can and should still be inspiring and meaningful on a personal level.

[Rocker Ute]

Isn't that kind of like saying that you wish every store was The Gap?


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Isn't that kind of like saying that you wish every store was The Gap?


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No, it more more of a request for honesty.

I don't need somebody constantly telling me we are eating at The New Yorker or Forage, when I am sitting in the Play Place surrounded by screaming kids, eating a McNugget, and can see the Golden Arches sign outside.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Here is a quick article written by a friend from high school, discussing cultural stereotypes to avoid.

http://ldsmag.com/30-questions-nobody-has-asked-my-husband/

[LA Ute]

Hey guys, this is a believer thread.


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[LA Ute]

Just an interesting story about a SUU player.

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865645402/From-tipoff-to-temple-What-joining-the-LDS-Church-has-done-for-SUU-basketball-player-John-Marshall.html?pg=all?ref=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.c om


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[LA Ute]

Interesting read from an Arminian perspective.

What’s Wrong with Calvinism? (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2013/03/whats-wrong-with-calvinism/)

[NorthwestUteFan]

Is that 30 questions, or is it the same question phrased in 30 different ways? Either way, I'm glad I'm not in that ward!
No, it is questions normally asked of women that sound hilarious/preposterous when asked of men.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Hey guys, this is a believer thread.


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And yet somehow that restriction doesn't stop your missionary work in the other thread.

[LA Ute]

And yet somehow that restriction doesn't stop your missionary work in the other thread.

No restriction. Just saying "Hey!"


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[NorthwestUteFan]

No restriction. Just saying "Hey!"


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Condition noted.

[Rocker Ute]

Is that 30 questions, or is it the same question phrased in 30 different ways? Either way, I'm glad I'm not in that ward!

Truthfully, it seems that whatever group you might be part of has questions and language like this that 'marginalizes' them. Conversely my wife who is highly educated and a former professional who is currently choosing to be a stay-at-home-mom and I get comments and questions like, "Don't you wish you were doing something more fulfilling? Are you one of those guys who has to keep his little wife at home? I can't imagine how bored I would get doing that. It must be nice for you (while poking me with an elbow). It must be nice being able to live off of just one income. Look at you, the perfect little family. I wish I could just relax all day long..."

I've determined that this generation's primary export is being offended and being outraged. People say stupid stuff all the time, but it is a lot more useful to try to figure out what their intent is versus getting upset, no matter how stupid it is what they've said. That cute little wife of mine taught me that, she is such a spiritual giant!

[DrumNFeather]

Truthfully, it seems that whatever group you might be part of has questions and language like this that 'marginalizes' them. Conversely my wife who is highly educated and a former professional who is currently choosing to be a stay-at-home-mom and I get comments and questions like, "Don't you wish you were doing something more fulfilling? Are you one of those guys who has to keep his little wife at home? I can't imagine how bored I would get doing that. It must be nice for you (while poking me with an elbow). It must be nice being able to live off of just one income. Look at you, the perfect little family. I wish I could just relax all day long..."

I've determined that this generation's primary export is being offended and being outraged. People say stupid stuff all the time, but it is a lot more useful to try to figure out what their intent is versus getting upset, no matter how stupid it is what they've said. That cute little wife of mine taught me that, she is such a spiritual giant!

Most folks are projecting when they do that. I had a "friend" keep poking me about my income when we moved into a new place (a townhouse, about 20 minutes farther out than our previous townhouse) "You must be making 6 figures to live there...I don't know anyone that lives there that doesn't."

[mUUser]

Here is a quick article written by a friend from high school, discussing cultural stereotypes to avoid.

http://ldsmag.com/30-questions-nobody-has-asked-my-husband/


The best humor is based in truth, and this is a good example of humorous truths. My wife experienced a few of these examples ad nauseum, though not nearly as much later in her career, whether it's because times are changing, or her position is higher profile.....I don't know.

While she was an MBA student at BYU over 20 years ago, she would bump into more than her fair share of male classmates that had a clear sexist bent on women in the workforce. Really backwards thinking. However, I'm convinced Utah County, but especially BYU in particular, is a petri dish of the very worst of LDS culture. A school led, administered, taught and attended by almost exclusively the "most worthy" of all mormons. I wouldn't survive a week there.

[NorthwestUteFan]

A school led, administered, taught and attended by almost exclusively the "most worthy" of all mormons. I wouldn't survive a week there.

The diet coke habit alone would be enough for people to give you sideways looks and threaten to turn you in to the HCO...

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Here is a quick article written by a friend from high school, discussing cultural stereotypes to avoid.

http://ldsmag.com/30-questions-nobody-has-asked-my-husband/

Julie is the only redeeming value to Meridian. I'm still trying to figure out how she conned them into letting her contribute. Guess it's only a matter of time before they catch on.


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[Solon]

Julie is the only redeeming value to Meridian. I'm still trying to figure out how she conned them into letting her contribute. Guess it's only a matter of time before they catch on.


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Uhhh. Kind of a stupid question but here goes:
If I wanted to get ahold of a Stake President, would I contact the Stake Clerk or the Stake Executive Secretary. I'm not all that familiar with the stake level of bureaucracy.

I'm, um, asking for a friend. :)

[DrumNFeather]

Uhhh. Kind of a stupid question but here goes:
If I wanted to get ahold of a Stake President, would I contact the Stake Clerk or the Stake Executive Secretary. I'm not all that familiar with the stake level of bureaucracy.

I'm, um, asking for a friend. :)

Executive secretary is your best bet.

[Solon]

Executive secretary is your best bet.

Gracias.

[Ma'ake]

Me gusta:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/26/god-is-a-question-not-an-answer/?smid=tw-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=0

I agree with this column.

The underlying question is unanswerable. Religion is pretty easy to criticize. "You believe *WHAT*!?!?"

But that doesn't mean there is nothing, zilch, nada.

Given that it's impossible to fully *know*, one way or the other... why not be optimistic?

Now... about this fantasy of having 72 virgins. Whoever put together that prize clearly wasn't thinking things through very far.

Somebody should create some kind of Virtual Reality simulation of what that would actually be like, beyond the initial 20 minutes of fun... complete with the mood swings, endless list of "honey do's", etc. And can you imagine the stupid little minor jealousies involved... multiplied 72 times?

That sounds like a type of "hell", to me.

[Scorcho]

Happy Easter, friends. Speaking today turned out to be a great experience for my wife and me. Hope y'all have a great day!

The older I get the more I enjoy holidays like Easter. I liken it to Christmas Eve, just a peaceful time when you can reflect on family and Jesus Christ.

[Rocker Ute]

Happy Easter, friends. Speaking today turned out to be a great experience for my wife and me. Hope y'all have a great day!

Happy Easter to that beautiful beard of yours and you. Glad you had a great day.

[LA Ute]

Our ward had fast & testimony meeting. Go figure. But it was a very good meeting.


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[LA Ute]

I am inclined to think a Christian would be wise to avoid, where he decently can, any meeting with people who are bullies, lascivious, cruel, dishonest, spiteful, and so forth. Not because we are ‘too good’ for them. In a sense because we are not good enough.

We are not good enough to cope with all the temptations, nor clever enough to cope with all the problems, which an evening spent in such society produces. The temptation is to condone, to connive at; by our words, looks and laughter, to ‘consent’.

Things we hold sacred will be mocked….We are encouraging him to believe that ‘those Christians’, once you get them off their guard and round a dinner table, really think and feel exactly as he does. By implication we are denying our Master; behaving as if we ‘knew not the Man’. On the other hand is one to show that, like Queen Victoria, one is ‘not amused’? Is one to be contentious, interrupting the flow of conversation at every moment with ‘I don’t agree, I don’t agree’? Or rise and go away? But by these courses we may also confirm some of their worst suspicions of ‘those Christians’. We are just the sort of ill-mannered prigs they always said.

C.S. Lewis

[LA Ute]

MORMONS AT THE FOREFRONT

Terry Givens in First Things:

http://www.firstthings.com/article/2016/06/mormons-at-the-forefront

[LA Ute]

This is by a newly Christian woman who lives in Utah.

Nicole Cliffe: How God Messed Up My Happy Atheist Life

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/june/nicole-cliffe-how-god-messed-up-my-happy-atheist-life.html?visit_source=facebook&start=1


"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus

[LA Ute]

The rationality of belief in God, explained.

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/1082181661824689/


"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus

[Applejack]

The rationality of belief in God, explained.

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/1082181661824689/


"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus

That was sacrilegious: calling God "the Big Banger?" I've never been so offended.

[LA Ute]

That was sacrilegious: calling God "the Big Banger?" I've never been so offended.

Sorry, we try to make this thread a safe space, but sometimes things like that get through.

[LA Ute]

Interesting Peggy article:

The Mormon Jesus: Just how different is he than the traditional Christ? (http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/3956775-155/the-mormon-jesus-just-how-different)

[LA Ute]

"In the end, there are two kinds of thinkers. Those who say upon hearing the description of the many materially describable pieces and processes underlying the appearance, ‘This is all there is,’ and those who say, ‘No, it’s not.’

"The former can say to the latter, ‘Show me why I should accept the idea of something more,’ and though many arguments can be offered, offered indeed on both sides, one who starts as a materialist will attempt to account for these central experiences as merely material events, not yet explained but explainable, while one who starts as a theist will say that these experiences are most fully illuminated when we reject the prospect that the determined material universe is all there is, and propose instead [a] creator.

"The theist will say that love makes more sense, truth makes more sense, value, morality, beauty, longing, joy, hope, music, mystery, and goodness all make more sense in a universe that’s not merely accidental matter. It’s not an argument that such a thinker offers (although there are plenty of arguments), nor is it an argument that the materialist offers for the baseline and controlling belief that finally love, value, morality, beauty, longing, joy, hope, music, mystery, and goodness are temporary, accidental parts of a purely material universe.

"At this deep level, it seems to me simply not to be about argument."

Ray Barfield, Pascal’s Wager: What Is It To Be Human

[LA Ute]

LDS apostle to Utah Mormons: Remember, we were once in the minority
http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/4414251-155/lds-apostle-to-utah-mormons-remember

[Utah]

It helped me a lot, when I realized that these men are just that. Men, who don't hold all the answers, and just like you and I, constantly make mistakes, even when it comes to how they lead the church. And like most of us, they have prejudices and thoughts on how things should be and sometimes they are wrong. And some of those prejudices are found in the "doctrine" of the church (or policies, whatever makes you sleep at night).

Once you realize that these men are no more prophets than you or I, but good men trying to do their best, everything changes. It's freeing. You start to really see Christ all around you. Instead of hoops to jump through, you see opportunities to actually become a better person and help those around you.

Ballard's message is fantastic. Treat everyone the same. It's that simple. Do good. That's it.

[chrisrenrut]

It helped me a lot, when I realized that these men are just that. Men, who don't hold all the answers, and just like you and I, constantly make mistakes, even when it comes to how they lead the church. And like most of us, they have prejudices and thoughts on how things should be and sometimes they are wrong. And some of those prejudices are found in the "doctrine" of the church (or policies, whatever makes you sleep at night).

Once you realize that these men are no more prophets than you or I, but good men trying to do their best, everything changes. It's freeing. You start to really see Christ all around you. Instead of hoops to jump through, you see opportunities to actually become a better person and help those around you.

Ballard's message is fantastic. Treat everyone the same. It's that simple. Do good. That's it.

But faithful members are required to sustain them as prophets, seers, and revelators. The church itself tells us that they are inspired to lead the kingdom of Christ on earth. So there is some dissonance in saying that they are just men doing their best.

[Utah]

But faithful members are required to sustain them as prophets, seers, and revelators. The church itself tells us that they are inspired to lead the kingdom of Christ on earth. So there is some dissonance in saying that they are just men doing their best.

They are prophets, seers, and revelators until they die, and their teachings were wrong, then they are theorizers...men, trying to do their best with the knowledge they have:


Over time, Church leaders and members advanced many theories to explain the priesthood and temple restrictions. None of these explanations is accepted today as the official doctrine of the Church.

Mark E. Petersen and McConkie and later Smith's were some to come up with those "theories".


According to one view, which had been promulgated in the United States from at least the 1730s, blacks descended from the same lineage as the biblical Cain, who slew his brother Abel.11 (https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng#11)

This "view" was taught by our prophets.


Soon after the revelation, Elder Bruce R. McConkie, an apostle, spoke of new “light and knowledge” that had erased previously “limited understanding.”23 (https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng#23)

This "light and knowledge" came almost 10 years after the heathens and gentiles realized this.

And here is the kicker, the part that shows that you are God's mouthpiece...until you are wrong, then you are just a philosophizer:


Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form.24 (https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng#24)

Like I said, you are a seer, prophet and revelator until you aren't.

God gave you the power of the Holy Ghost and a brain. I'd always trust them before a leader of any group.

[LA Ute]

From the Smithsonian magazine:

Why Theoretical Physicist Sylvester James Gates Sees No Conflict Between Science and Religion (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-theoretical-physicist-sylvester-james-gates-sees-no-conflict-between-science-and-religion-180961090/?utm_source=facebook.com&no-ist)
(http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-theoretical-physicist-sylvester-james-gates-sees-no-conflict-between-science-and-religion-180961090/?utm_source=facebook.com&no-ist)

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-theoretical-physicist-sylvester-james-gates-sees-no-conflict-between-science-and-religion-180961090/#Oxt4JDGsYjeCgMVB.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv

The linked video:


https://vimeo.com/126266478

[LA Ute]

Study shows Mormons’ brains light up when they ‘feel the spirit’

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4617561-155/study-shows-mormons-brains-light-up

They're going to do similar studies of other faiths.

[SeattleUte]

Study shows Mormons’ brains light up when they ‘feel the spirit’

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4617561-155/study-shows-mormons-brains-light-up

They're going to do similar studies of other faiths.

What happens when a Stones fan hears Light My Fire?

[sancho]

What happens when a Stones fan hears Light My Fire?

I can't speak for all Stones fans, but I know my brain lights up. I bet it lights up even more for Doors fans.

[concerned]

What happens when a Stones fan hears Light My Fire?


A Stones Fan lighting up at a Doors song is virtually adultery.

[SeattleUte]

Whoops. My brain said Satisfaction, my fingers said Light My Fire.

[SeattleUte]

I'm not a baby boomer. Sorry.

[concerned]

I'm not a baby boomer. Sorry.

Stop trying to be a pretender. Stay in your comfort zone.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Study shows Mormons’ brains light up when they ‘feel the spirit’

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4617561-155/study-shows-mormons-brains-light-up

They're going to do similar studies of other faiths.

Ha. Fox13 framed the study a little different. I just looked it up again and it seems that they have rethought and reworded the original headline. Current headline: "U of U Study: Religious thoughts trigger same reward system as love, drugs, music and sex"
Original headline: "Study: Prayer feels as good as sex for members of LDS church"

[Diehard Ute]

Ha. Fox13 framed the study a little different. I just looked it up again and it seems that they have rethought and reworded the original headline. Current headline: "U of U Study: Religious thoughts trigger same reward system as love, drugs, music and sex"
Original headline: "Study: Prayer feels as good as sex for members of LDS church"

They realized there's no way sex felt as good as prayer ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LA Ute]

I'm not a baby boomer. Sorry.

As I was going down the stair
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today --
I wish, I wish he'd go away!

[LA Ute]

I want to try a thread for believers of any faith. This is not intended for sectarian debate or criticizing any religion or church. It's really a place for for believers, or people who want to believe, or for people who wish they could believe, to discuss their personal faith journey. I'm glad vBulletin allows us to set up these interest group-oriented threads. Let's see how this goes.

By way of introduction, as most of you probably know I am what I call a convinced Mormon. That means I believe all the church's restorationist claims and try my best to live its teachings. I'm unsuccessful in that effort daily, but I try. That doesn't mean I don't have questions or that I am blind to the church's warts. Meanwhile, having grown up in Utah and then lived for many years in L.A. I've come to appreciate, admire and even cherish the faith and traditions of others.

I'll start by borrowing the photo I posed in the astronomy thread of the Sombrero Galaxy:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/lowellbrown/sombrero.jpg

As I noted there, this galaxy is 28 million light years from Earth. It has 800 billion suns and is 50,000 light years across.

The vastness of the universe always causes me to think of what to me is the most stunning teaching of my church (and, in different ways, other churches). One of my favorite scriptures is in Moses 7:30:



I choose to believe that God is the creator of all that vast universe, and yet still knows my name, and the name of every human being in all of history -- past or present. And that is stunning to me. It is a huge concept, and it's difficult to get my mind around it. But I try.

Dieter F. Uchtdorf (https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/you-matter-to-him?lang=eng&query=paradox):



These are the kinds of ideas that keep me going every day.

Bump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Devildog]

They realized there's no way sex felt as good as prayer ;)


This is beyond stupid. Anyone claiming prayer is as good or better than sex is a damn liar. Even with that said... some of my dumbass neighbors would still claim it to be so. Especially if they could say it in front of each other.

[Rocker Ute]

This is beyond stupid. Anyone claiming prayer is as good or better than sex is a damn liar. Even with that said... some of my dumbass neighbors would still claim it to be so. Especially if they could say it in front of each other.

Nobody said that, except a headline writer by mistake who later edited it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LA Ute]

“Who is to blame for the greatest myth in the history of science and religion? These two guys.”
https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/evangelical-history/2017/02/01/who-is-to-blame-for-the-greatest-myth-in-the-history-of-science-and-religion-these-two-guys/

[Hayes6]

“Who is to blame for the greatest myth in the history of science and religion? These two guys.”


https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/evangelical-history/2017/02/01/who-is-to-blame-for-the-greatest-myth-in-the-history-of-science-and-religion-these-two-guys/

Wow. That's a lot of strawmen for a short article. It's true there isn't a war between science and religion, it's all one way. Religion attacks science. Science doesn't attack religion, it just continually undermines it as a result of the progress of science. The theory of evolution is not an attack on religion. It's science. Science doesn't care what any religion believes, it seeks the truth. Religion attacks science with things like intelligent design when it doesn't like the results of scientific progress. Religion doesn't seek truth, it seeks to support its beliefs. The same is true with the age of the earth and many other things.

[sancho]

Science doesn't attack religion

True, science does not attack religion. But religion doesn't attack science either. Scientists often attack religion, and the religious often attack science.

Science seeks the truth through evidence. Religion seeks the truth through spirituality. Philosophy seeks the truth through logic. Art seeks the truth through beauty. Solon seeks the truth through ancient languages. I seek the truth through football.

The theory of evolution is not an attack on religion. It's science. The sermon on the mount is not an attack on science. It's religion (and art and philosophy and literature).

Edit: I didn't read the article, so I may be completely missing the point.

[LA Ute]

Wow. That's a lot of strawmen for a short article. It's true there isn't a war between science and religion, it's all one way. Religion attacks science. Science doesn't attack religion, it just continually undermines it as a result of the progress of science. The theory of evolution is not an attack on religion. It's science. Science doesn't care what any religion believes, it seeks the truth. Religion attacks science with things like intelligent design when it doesn't like the results of scientific progress. Religion doesn't seek truth, it seeks to support its beliefs. The same is true with the age of the earth and many other things.

I didn't find the piece compelling. I am attracted to the idea that religion and science need not be at war, so I posted it for that reason. (I don't necessarily agree with everything I post here. I just look for interesting stuff.)

[LA Ute]

I agree with this. Pile on!

The Sheltered Ones

http://www.jrganymede.com/2015/09/21/the-sheltered-ones/