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Dwight Schr-Ute

03-26-2017, 11:01 PM

Chase Hansen puts a piece together for the LDS Institute program on campus.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865676297/Utah-safety-Chase-Hansen-talks-about-his-LDS-faith-mission-and-football-in-LDS-Institute-video.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LA Ute

03-26-2017, 11:23 PM

LA Ute

04-17-2017, 10:08 PM

I dedicate this post to Seattle Ute.

From Ross Douthat:

Save the Mainline

OUR intervention in Syria required me to be fully serious last Sunday, but now it’s time to return to this column’s ongoing series of implausible proposals, Easter Sunday edition. Which means I’ll be proposing — yes, I’m that predictable — that many of this newspaper’s secular liberal readers should head en masse to church....

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/15/opinion/sunday/save-the-mainline.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=1&referer=http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2017/04/appeal-new-york-times-secularized-leftists-go-back-church.html

LA Ute

04-28-2017, 07:33 AM

Interesting data.

Does more schooling lead to less faith? Not for Mormons, other Christians

http://www.sltrib.com/home/5220394-155/does-more-schooling-lead-to-less

"But to be learned is good if they hearken into the counsels of God."

LA Ute

05-27-2017, 02:46 PM

How Oxford and Peter Singer drove me from atheism to Jesus

http://www.veritas.org/oxford-atheism-to-jesus/

I grew up in Australia, in a loving, secular home, and arrived at Sydney University as a critic of “religion.” I didn’t need faith to ground my identity or my values. I knew from the age of eight that I wanted to study history at Cambridge and become a historian. My identity lay in academic achievement, and my secular humanism was based on self-evident truths. As an undergrad, I won the University Medal and a Commonwealth Scholarship to undertake my Ph.D. in History at King’s College, Cambridge. King’s is known for its secular ideology and my perception of Christianity fitted well with the views of my fellow students: Christians were anti-intellectual and self-righteous....

LA Ute

06-12-2017, 08:37 AM

The Enlightenment of Neo-Mormons

https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2017/06/11/enlightenment-neo-mormons

Scorcho

06-12-2017, 09:00 AM

twice yesterday my video crashed because of our spotty building Wi-FI (which killed my lesson), why even recommend using a video in the lesson guide if you don't have the tools to use it.

UtahsMrSports

06-12-2017, 09:14 AM

twice yesterday my video crashed because of our spotty building Wi-FI (which killed my lesson), why even recommend using a video in the lesson guide if you don't have the tools to use it.

Two things you can count on in an LDS chapel.....the password for the wifi being the same (even had a report that its the same in New Zeland!), and said WiFi being VERY unreliable. In my lessons, Ive had to just eat it and use my own data.

LA Ute

06-12-2017, 09:46 AM

twice yesterday my video crashed because of our spotty building Wi-FI (which killed my lesson), why even recommend using a video in the lesson guide if you don't have the tools to use it.

I've given up on building wi-fi for streaming anything. You can download most church videos to your tablet or laptop. Try that. Thanks to my tech-savvy son I've even learned how to download Youtubes.

Rocker Ute

06-12-2017, 10:04 AM

I've given up on building wi-fi for streaming anything. You can download most church videos to your tablet or laptop. Try that. Thanks to my tech-savvy son I've even learned how to download Youtubes.

The challenge that they have is you've got 80 people connecting to the same access point at once. You can do two things, either download before hand or ask everyone to put their phones in airplane mode.

I always download videos beforehand for any presentation at work. I always assume the internet is going to go out at one point or another, and so I always have a backup, because 90% of the time it does.

Scorcho

06-12-2017, 01:18 PM

Brother Scorcho,

Just wanted to remind you that next weekend your family is scheduled to clean the chapel, oh and since they have removed the Wi-Fi from the building you are scheduled to provide an internet hot spot

I think next week I'm going to ask the library for a film strip and a cassette recorder

http://cf.chucklesnetwork.com/items/1/0/9/4/4/5/original/this-is-why-we-cant-have-nice-things.jpg

DrumNFeather

08-08-2017, 10:08 AM

Archaeologists find what they believe to be the birthplace of three of Jesus' apostles: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/08/08/unearthed-fishing-village-birthplace-3-jesus-apostles/546094001/

For decades archaeologists have searched for the fishing village where apostles Peter, Andrew and Philip lived, according to the New Testament. Three possible sites in the area had been identified but all were inconclusive.

This summer, however, during the second year of excavating, a team from Israel’s Kinneret College discovered remnants of a Roman-era bathhouse, potsherds and coins from the first to third centuries.

These findings are consistent with the chronicles of the 1st century historian Josephus Flavius, who wrote that the Roman King Philip Herod transformed the small village of Bethsaida into a polis, or city state, called Julias.

LA Ute

04-01-2018, 04:39 AM

It's 2018 and NPR Doesn't Know What Christians Commemorate on Easter

https://pjmedia.com/faith/good-friday-2018-npr-doesnt-know-easter-commemorates/

Applejack

04-01-2018, 05:31 AM

It's 2018 and NPR Doesn't Know What Christians Commemorate on Easter

https://pjmedia.com/faith/good-friday-2018-npr-doesnt-know-easter-commemorates/

War on Easter!!!!

LA Ute

04-01-2018, 08:07 AM

By a Catholic writer:

The Easter Effect and How It Changed the World

The first Christians were baffled by what they called ‘the Resurrection.’ Their struggle to understand it brought about astonishing success for their faith

By George Weigel

March 30, 2018 10:05 a.m. ET579 COMMENTS (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-easter-effect-and-how-it-changed-the-world-1522418701#comments_sector)

In the year 312, just before his victory at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge won him the undisputed leadership of the Roman Empire, Constantine the Great had a heavenly vision of Christian symbols. That augury led him, a year later, to end all legal sanctions on the public profession of Christianity.

Or so a pious tradition has it.

But there’s a more mundane explanation for Constantine’s decision: He was a politician who had shrewdly decided to join the winning side. By the early 4th century, Christians likely counted for between a quarter and a half of the population of the Roman Empire, and their exponential growth seemed likely to continue.

How did this happen? How did a ragtag band of nobodies from the far edges of the Mediterranean world become such a dominant force in just two and a half centuries? The historical sociology of this extraordinary phenomenon has been explored by Rodney Stark of Baylor University, who argues that Christianity modeled a nobler way of life than what was on offer elsewhere in the rather brutal society of the day. In Christianity, women were respected as they weren’t in classical culture and played a critical role in bringing men to the faith and attracting converts. In an age of plagues, the readiness of Christians to care for all the sick, not just their own, was a factor, as was the impressive witness to faith of countless martyrs. Christianity also grew from within because Christians had larger families, a byproduct of their faith’s prohibition of contraception, abortion and infanticide.

For theologians who like to think that arguments won the day for the Christian faith, this sort of historical reconstruction is not particularly gratifying, but it makes a lot of human sense. Prof. Stark’s analysis still leaves us with a question, though: How did all that modeling of a compelling, alternative way of life get started? And that, in turn, brings us back to that gaggle of nobodies in the early first century A.D. and what happened to them.

What happened to them was the Easter Effect.

There is no accounting for the rise of Christianity without weighing the revolutionary effect on those nobodies of what they called “the Resurrection”: their encounter with the one whom they embraced as the Risen Lord, whom they first knew as the itinerant Jewish rabbi, Jesus of Nazareth, and who died an agonizing and shameful death on a Roman cross outside Jerusalem. As N.T. Wright, one of the Anglosphere’s pre-eminent biblical scholars, makes clear, that first generation answered the question of why they were Christians with a straightforward answer: because Jesus was raised from the dead.

Now that, as some disgruntled listeners once complained about Jesus’ preaching, is “a hard saying.” It was no less challenging two millennia ago than it is today.

And one of the most striking things about the New Testament accounts of Easter, and what followed in the days immediately after Easter, is that the Gospel writers and editors carefully preserved the memory of the first Christians’ bafflement, skepticism and even fright about what had happened to their former teacher and what was happening to them.

In Mark’s gospel, Mary Magdalene and other women in Jesus’ entourage find his tomb empty and a young man sitting nearby telling them that “Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified…has risen; he is not here.” But they had no idea what that was all about, “and went out and fled from the tomb…[and] said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.”

Two disciples walking to Emmaus from Jerusalem on Easter afternoon haven’t a clue as to who’s talking with them along their way, interpreting the scriptures and explaining Jesus’ suffering as part of his messianic mission. They don’t even recognize who it is that sits down to supper with them until he breaks bread and asks a blessing: “…and their eyes were opened and they recognized him.” They high-tail it back to Jerusalem to tell the other friends of Jesus, who report that Peter has had a similarly strange experience, but when “Jesus himself stood among them…they were startled and frightened, and supposed that they saw a ghost.”

Some time later, Peter, John and others in Jesus’ core group are fishing on the Sea of Tiberias. “Jesus stood on the beach,” we are told, “yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus.” At the very end of these post-Easter accounts, those whom we might expect to have been the first to grasp what was afoot are still skeptical. When that core group of Jesus’ followers goes back to Galilee, they see him, “but some doubted.”

This remarkable and deliberate recording of the first Christians’ incomprehension of what they insisted was the irreducible bottom line of their faith teaches us two things. First, it tells us that the early Christians were confident enough about what they called the Resurrection that (to borrow from Prof. Wright) they were prepared to say something like, “I know this sounds ridiculous, but it’s what happened.” And the second thing it tells us is that it took time for the first Christians to figure out what the events of Easter meant—not only for Jesus but for themselves. As they worked that out, their thinking about a lot of things changed profoundly, as Prof. Wright and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI help us to understand in their biblical commentaries.

The way they thought about time and history changed. During Jesus’ public ministry, many of his followers shared in the Jewish messianic expectations of the time: God would soon work something grand for his people in Israel, liberating them from their oppressors and bringing about a new age in which (as Isaiah had prophesied) the nations would stream to the mountain of the Lord and history would end. The early Christians came to understand that the cataclysmic, world-redeeming act that God had promised had taken place at Easter. God’s Kingdom had come not at the end of time but within time—and that had changed the texture of both time and history. History continued, but those shaped by the Easter Effect became the people who knew how history was going to turn out. Because of that, they could live differently. The Easter Effect impelled them to bring a new standard of equality into the world and to embrace death as martyrs if necessary—because they knew, now, that death did not have the final word in the human story.

The way they thought about “resurrection” changed. Pious Jews taught by the reforming Pharisees of Jesus’ time believed in the resurrection of the dead. Easter taught the first Christians, who were all pious Jews, that this resurrection was not the resuscitation of a corpse, nor did it involve the decomposition of a corpse. Jesus’ tomb was empty, but the Risen Lord appeared to his disciples in a transformed body. Those who first experienced the Easter Effect would not have put it in these terms, but as their understanding of what had happened to Jesus and to themselves grew, they grasped that (as Benedict XVI put it in “Jesus of Nazareth–Holy Week”) there had been an “evolutionary leap” in the human condition. A new way of being had been encountered in the manifestly human but utterly different life of the one they met as the Risen Lord. That insight radically changed all those who embraced it.

Which brings us to the next manifestation of the Easter Effect among the first Christians: The way they thought about their responsibilities changed. What had happened to Jesus, they slowly began to grasp, was not just about their former teacher and friend; it was about all of them. His destiny was their destiny. So not only could they face opposition, scorn and even death with confidence; they could offer to others the truth and the fellowship they had been given. Indeed, they had to do so, to be faithful to what they had experienced. Christian mission is inconceivable without Easter. And that mission would eventually lead these sons and daughters of Abraham to the conviction that the promise that God had made to the People of Israel had been extended to those who were not sons and daughters of Abraham. Because of Easter, the gentiles, too, could be embraced in a relationship—a covenant—with the one God, which was embodied in righteous living.

The way they thought about worship and its temporal rhythms changed. For the Jews who were the first members of the Jesus movement, nothing was more sacrosanct than the Sabbath, the seventh day of rest and worship. The Sabbath was enshrined in creation, for God himself had rested on the seventh day. The Sabbath’s importance as a key behavioral marker of the People of God had been reaffirmed in the Ten Commandments. Yet these first Christians, all Jews, quickly fixed Sunday as the “Lord’s Day,” because Easter had been a Sunday. Benedict XVI draws out the crucial point here:

“Only an event that marked souls indelibly could bring about such a profound realignment of the religious culture of the week. Mere theological speculations could not have achieved this... [The] celebration of the Lord’s day, which was characteristic of the Christian community from the outset, is one of the most convincing proofs that something extraordinary happened [at Easter]—the discovery of the empty tomb and the encounter with the Risen Lord.”

Without the Easter Effect, there is really no explaining why there was a winning side—the Christian side—for Constantine the Great to choose. That effect, as Prof. Wright puts it, begins with, and is incomprehensible without, the first Christians’ conviction that “Jesus of Nazareth was raised bodily to a new sort of life, three days after his execution.” Recognizing that does not, of course, convince everyone. Nor does it end the mystery of Easter. The first Christians, like Christians today, cannot fully comprehend resurrected life: the life depicted in the Gospels of a transphysical body that can eat, drink and be touched but that also appears and disappears, unbothered by obstacles like doors and distance.

Nor does Easter mean that everything is always going to turn out just fine, for there is still work to be done in history. As Benedict XVI put it in his 2010 Easter message: “Easter does not work magic. Just as the Israelites found the desert awaiting them on the far side of the Red Sea, so the Church, after the Resurrection, always finds history filled with joy and hope, grief and anguish. And yet this history is changed…it is truly open to the future.”

Which perhaps offers one final insight into the question with which we began: How did the Jesus movement, beginning on the margins of civilization and led by people of seeming inconsequence, end up being what Constantine regarded as the winning side? However important the role of sociological factors in explaining why Christianity carried the day, there also was that curious and inexplicable joy that marked the early Christians, even as they were being marched off to execution. Was that joy simply delusion? Denial?

Perhaps it was the Easter Effect: the joy of people who had become convinced that they were witnesses to something inexplicable but nonetheless true. Something that gave a superabundance of meaning to life and that erased the fear of death. Something that had to be shared. Something with which to change the world.

Mr. Weigel is distinguished senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, where he holds the William E. Simon Chair in Catholic Studies.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-easter-effect-and-how-it-changed-the-world-1522418701

Ma'ake

04-01-2018, 10:20 PM

After the Jazz won their pivotal game against the T-Wolves, I changed over to Jesus Christ Superstar on NBC, when John Legend, Alice Cooper & a bunch of Broadway talent redid the original without too much deviation.

Wow.

When I was a kid growing up Mormon, Jesus Christ Superstar was a big no-no when it hit the big time. I knew the music score, knew the pivotal players involved in the last days of Jesus, but I'd never watched the movie or seen the rock play.

Tonight's performance was powerful. John Legend did a superlative job as Jesus, the guy who played Judas was very powerful, Caiaphus, Pilote, Mary Magdalene - all outstanding, even moving. Alice Cooper as Herrod was brief (thank you) and over the top.

JCS is a dramatic, superficial retelling of one part of Jesus' life, but it's hard not to sense the enormity of what later became the world's largest religion, such as the powerful piece from LA Ute just above on what the resurrection of Jesus meant for Christians, and the world.

All very thought provoking...

LA Ute

04-05-2018, 02:51 PM

Nice post by Darius Gray on the LDS.org blog:

Healing the Wounds of Racism (https://www.lds.org/blog/healing-the-wounds-of-racism?lang=eng)

Ma'ake, what's your perspective? I'm interested.

LA Ute

04-09-2018, 10:09 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njHERnPkYWY#action=share

Utah

04-11-2018, 01:24 PM

Nice post by Darius Gray on the LDS.org blog:

Healing the Wounds of Racism (https://www.lds.org/blog/healing-the-wounds-of-racism?lang=eng)

Ma'ake, what's your perspective? I'm interested.

You probably don't want to hear my opinion, but here it is:

President Hinckley chastises members for being racist. Kind of ironic, seeing how a lot of those members grew up in a religion where it was taught that blacks were on earth as a representative of the devil (John Taylor, August 28th, 1881, Journal of Discourses 22:304. See also Latter-day Prophets Speak: Selections from the Sermons and Writings of Church Presidents, p. 157, Daniel H. Ludlow, ed.), Joseph Fielding Smith (Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 101) taught that blacks were an inferior race, that marrying someone of another race and having children was a penalty worthy of death (Brigham Young, October 9, 1859, Journal of Discourses 10:110) and listening to Mark E Petersen who would make a KKK member blush at his level of racism.

Side note on Mark E. Petersen. He said this in a speech in Provo:

I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people sit. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. From this and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel sorry for Negros that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that they used to say about sin, "First we pity, then endure, then embrace."

https://archive.org/stream/RaceProblemsAsTheyAffectTheChurchMarkEPetersen/Race%20Problems%20As%20They%20Affect%20the%20Churc h%20-%20Mark%20E%20Petersen#page/n5/mode/2up

And that was probably the least offensive remark in that speech.

Also, isn't there a racist woman on twitter/social media who is very "mormon" and has received no church discipline? Kind of goes against any argument the church has against racism when they allow someone like that to be so prominent.

All that being said, the article is good and something that the church needs more of. More tolerance, more love, more acceptance. Be more christlike.

Also, on the video, isn't that kind of cringeworthy? To parade around a bunch of minorities and then have a day to celebrate how you became less racist about 15 years later than most other groups? And then to end with the picture of the white overlords, who were very much apart of the church during the years those horrible things were taught?

That being said, Mormon me would have eaten this all up and loved it and showed it to all my coworkers and they would politely smile and then awkwardly leave afterwards. Now, it's embarrassing to see.

UtahsMrSports

04-11-2018, 02:03 PM

You probably don't want to hear my opinion, but here it is:

President Hinckley chastises members for being racist. Kind of ironic, seeing how a lot of those members grew up in a religion where it was taught that blacks were on earth as a representative of the devil (John Taylor, August 28th, 1881, Journal of Discourses 22:304. See also Latter-day Prophets Speak: Selections from the Sermons and Writings of Church Presidents, p. 157, Daniel H. Ludlow, ed.), Joseph Fielding Smith (Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 101) taught that blacks were an inferior race, that marrying someone of another race and having children was a penalty worthy of death (Brigham Young, October 9, 1859, Journal of Discourses 10:110) and listening to Mark E Petersen who would make a KKK member blush at his level of racism.

Side note on Mark E. Petersen. He said this in a speech in Provo:

https://archive.org/stream/RaceProblemsAsTheyAffectTheChurchMarkEPetersen/Race%20Problems%20As%20They%20Affect%20the%20Churc h%20-%20Mark%20E%20Petersen#page/n5/mode/2up

And that was probably the least offensive remark in that speech.

Also, isn't there a racist woman on twitter/social media who is very "mormon" and has received no church discipline? Kind of goes against any argument the church has against racism when they allow someone like that to be so prominent.

All that being said, the article is good and something that the church needs more of. More tolerance, more love, more acceptance. Be more christlike.

Also, on the video, isn't that kind of cringeworthy? To parade around a bunch of minorities and then have a day to celebrate how you became less racist about 15 years later than most other groups? And then to end with the picture of the white overlords, who were very much apart of the church during the years those horrible things were taught?

That being said, Mormon me would have eaten this all up and loved it and showed it to all my coworkers and they would politely smile and then awkwardly leave afterwards. Now, it's embarrassing to see.

LOL.

I am not even going to touch your first 'point' because its point-less. "An LDS church leader condemned racism which is hilarious because lots of racists have been leaders in the LDS church! How ironic! LOL!" Ok cool.......

Anyway, I believe you are referencing APurposefulWife.....a) she was at one point Mormon, but last I checked she had set out on her own due to disappointment with the LDS church. b) the First Presidency issued a statement that didn't name her but condemned everything she stands for when she started to get a following. "allow her to be so prominent"? Get out of here with that.

Dwight Schr-Ute

04-11-2018, 03:33 PM

LOL.

I am not even going to touch your first 'point' because its point-less. "An LDS church leader condemned racism which is hilarious because lots of racists have been leaders in the LDS church! How ironic! LOL!" Ok cool.......

Anyway, I believe you are referencing APurposefulWife.....a) she was at one point Mormon, but last I checked she had set out on her own due to disappointment with the LDS church. b) the First Presidency issued a statement that didn't name her but condemned everything she stands for when she started to get a following. "allow her to be so prominent"? Get out of here with that.

You probably don't want to hear my opinion, but here it is:

At least he warned you.

As for A Purposeful Wife, I'd love to see your reference on that. Your "when she started to get a following" is a little generous. After she "started to get a following" the New York Post did a highlight piece on her on March 31, 2017. The Salt Lake Tribune did a response piece on her dated April 2, 2017. On August 13, 2017, in response to the Charllotesville, Virginia rally that resulted in the death of a rally protester, the LDS church offered a statement that read:

For members of the Church, we reaffirm that teaching today and the Savior’s admonition to love our neighbor.
“Our prayers are with those who are suffering because of this intolerance and hatred. We pray for peace and for understanding. Above all, we pray that we may treat one another with greater kindness, compassion, and goodness.

And then finally, two days after that, they finally address the 'movement' as directly as they ever have, with another press release:

It has been called to our attention that there are some among the various pro-white and white supremacy communities who assert that the Church is neutral toward or in support of their views. Nothing could be further from the truth. In the New Testament, Jesus said: ‘Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself’ (Matthew 22:37–39 (https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/22.37-39?lang=eng#36)). The Book of Mormon teaches ‘all are alike unto God’” (2 Nephi 26:33 (https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/26.33?lang=eng#32)).
“White supremacist attitudes are morally wrong and sinful, and we condemn them. Church members who promote or pursue a ‘white culture’ or white supremacy agenda are not in harmony with the teachings of the Church.

So...4 1/2 months after she had received national press for her views of Mormonism and white supremacy. I think the response could have been a little quicker. Also, one thing that I find annoying is the idea that these little press releases are enough. Just because you put in on a website doesn't mean it's been properly addressed. I had the same complaint when the released the series on polygamy and blacks and the priesthood, etc. Progress is progress, but I'd be really curious as to how many people actually see those things. I was really hoping for some strong words over the pulpit six weeks later during General Conference, but didn't hear them.

As a kicker, he's a quote from the Wife herself:

However, let me be perfectly clear, I have at no time been disciplined, or even spoken to, regarding my political views or activism by a leader of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, at any level, from Bishop to Prophet.

It seems Twitter found a way to address her voice faster than her local leadership. That's a shame.

UtahsMrSports

04-11-2018, 04:11 PM

At least he warned you.

As for A Purposeful Wife, I'd love to see your reference on that. Your "when she started to get a following" is a little generous. After she "started to get a following" the New York Post did a highlight piece on her on March 31, 2017. The Salt Lake Tribune did a response piece on her dated April 2, 2017. On August 13, 2017, in response to the Charllotesville, Virginia rally that resulted in the death of a rally protester, the LDS church offered a statement that read:

And then finally, two days after that, they finally address the 'movement' as directly as they ever have, with another press release:

So...4 1/2 months after she had received national press for her views of Mormonism and white supremacy. I think the response could have been a little quicker. Also, one thing that I find annoying is the idea that these little press releases are enough. Just because you put in on a website doesn't mean it's been properly addressed. I had the same complaint when the released the series on polygamy and blacks and the priesthood, etc. Progress is progress, but I'd be really curious as to how many people actually see those things. I was really hoping for some strong words over the pulpit six weeks later during General Conference, but didn't hear them.

As a kicker, he's a quote from the Wife herself:

It seems Twitter found a way to address her voice faster than her local leadership. That's a shame.

I have no interest in debating the timeline. I think people knew where I was going with that. I would argue that you can find a talk in every single general conference that makes a point, at various levels, that racism has no place in the LDS church and beyond that, I don't know what reasonable measures the church could have taken. They issued the statement when they did, APW responded that she was angry and last I checked she had set out on her own. Shes been booted on twitter. Church discipline at some point has probably either already happened, is happening, or is soon to come if she hasn't left on our own.

mpfunk

04-12-2018, 12:49 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njHERnPkYWY#action=share

The video is hilarious. Here are images of people of color only to be ended with an image of 3 old white men who are here to tell you more later about how we are going to celebrate.

LA Ute

04-12-2018, 02:36 PM

Guys, if you want to criticize or mock any faith, not just the LDS one, please don't do it in the Believer Thread. Start your own thread called "Why I dislike/disrespect [insert name of religion]."

Two Utes

04-13-2018, 09:27 AM

Guys, if you want to criticize or mock any faith, not just the LDS one, please don't do it in the Believer Thread. Start your own thread called "Why I dislike/disrespect [insert name of religion]."

I agree with LA here. He and others have been very tolerant of opposing views on stuff. He created this thread for the believers. There is plenty of places to put whatever you like other than this thread. it is disrespectful.

LA Ute

07-02-2018, 02:44 PM

"Suicide Will Not Be a Defining Characteristic of Their Eternities": Church Releases Powerful New Video Series About Suicide, Prevention

http://www.ldsliving.com/-That-Suicide-Will-Not-Be-a-Defining-Characteristic-of-Their-Eternities-Church-Releases-7-New-Videos-About-Suicide/s/88822?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=social_button

LA Ute

08-16-2018, 08:14 AM

Rocker Ute

08-16-2018, 09:13 AM

This is horrible. Any Catholics posting here? What do you think?

What would Jesus do? Clean house in the Catholic Church.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-would-jesus-do-clean-house-in-the-catholic-church/2018/08/15/d2e0f496-a0cc-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html?utm_term=.120470b2c64c

I have been trying to wrap my head around these numbers. According to this site there are a little over 1000 active priests in Pennsylvania. I know these abuses occurred over decades so is that 3000 - 5000 - 10000 priests (I don't know the turnover). But to think the amount of abusive priests is in the whole percentage numbers if not double digit is pretty astounding to me.

For a local frame of reference with the LDS faith, there are about 5000 congregations and an average of two bishops per congregation in a decade would be 30,000 bishops over three decades. That would be the equivalent of 1000-3000 bishops abusing children.

I would think the abuse would track pretty close to the general population percentages. Seems much higher.

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Scorcho

08-16-2018, 02:19 PM

Diehard Ute

08-16-2018, 02:23 PM

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has announced new style guidelines for referring to the Church, asking people to avoid using terms such as “LDS Church” and “Mormon Church.”
On first reference, “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” is preferred, according to the Church’s Newsroom site (https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/style-guide). “The Church,” “Church of Jesus Christ” and the “restored Church of Jesus Christ” are acceptable as abbreviated names.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46377155&nid=148&title=the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-discourages-use-of-mormons-in-new-name-guidelines

No one is going to use the long one. You’d think such a large organization would have a better PR person guiding them.

As for “the Church”. Pretty sure there are dozens of other churches which disagree with that. (And let’s be honest, if the media prints that west of the Mississippi everyone’s going to be talking about Catholics)

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Scorcho

08-16-2018, 02:59 PM

sancho

08-16-2018, 03:24 PM

As for “the Church”. Pretty sure there are dozens of other churches which disagree with that. (And let’s be honest, if the media prints that west of the Mississippi everyone’s going to be talking about Catholics)

Nothing wrong with "the Church" if used as suggested - as a follow up reference.

This is a style guide for journalists, right? I'm not going to stop saying I'm a Mormon.

Diehard Ute

08-16-2018, 03:50 PM

Nothing wrong with "the Church" if used as suggested - as a follow up reference.

This is a style guide for journalists, right? I'm not going to stop saying I'm a Mormon.

But you must.

I’m waiting to hear The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints Tabernacle Choir.

The broadcast will be over by the time they’re introduced.

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Rocker Ute

08-16-2018, 04:22 PM

No one is going to use the long one. You’d think such a large organization would have a better PR person guiding them.

As for “the Church”. Pretty sure there are dozens of other churches which disagree with that. (And let’s be honest, if the media prints that west of the Mississippi everyone’s going to be talking about Catholics)

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'The Church' as used in the style guide is just an abbreviated follow up reference, kind of like how it is done with business organizations etc. So if you are reading an article about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and then suddenly think you are reading about the Catholic Church... you need to check your reading comprehension skills.

I'm fine with them referring to any church as 'the Church' following the first reference.

I think the PR point in this is that many people still don't understand that Mormons believe in Jesus Christ, hence the emphasis. I've met people in Utah who don't know that.

But they won't succeed in getting people to not use Mormons, LDS (only used in Utah really) or Church of Latter Day Saints, etc., it didn't work the last time they tried either.

LA Ute

08-16-2018, 05:35 PM

'The Church' as used in the style guide is just an abbreviated follow up reference, kind of like how it is done with business organizations etc. So if you are reading an article about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and then suddenly think you are reading about the Catholic Church... you need to check your reading comprehension skills.

I'm fine with them referring to any church as 'the Church' following the first reference.

I think the PR point in this is that many people still don't understand that Mormons believe in Jesus Christ, hence the emphasis. I've met people in Utah who don't know that.

But they won't succeed in getting people to not use Mormons, LDS (only used in Utah really) or Church of Latter Day Saints, etc., it didn't work the last time they tried either.

Yes. They ask that the full name be used in the first reference and then one of the abbreviations thereafter. Pretty standard. Headlines will still say “Mormon,” “LDS,” etc. No one will be confused who can read.

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Utebiquitous

08-16-2018, 11:25 PM

I'm betting on simply - Tabernacle Choir. All print material with Tabernacle Choir followed by the name/logo.

LA Ute

08-17-2018, 07:15 AM

I just visited LDS.org (a touch of irony there) and saw President Nelson's statement:

“The Lord has impressed upon my mind the importance of the name He has revealed for His Church, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We have work before us to bring ourselves in harmony with His will. In recent weeks, various Church leaders and departments have initiated the necessary steps to do so. Additional information about this important matter will be made available in the coming months.”

I've never seen the matter stated so plainly by a church president. I think what we'll see is a significant change in terminology inside the church, certainly at the higher levels. But among the general public the terms "Mormon," "LDS," etc. are just too ingrained in the worldwide perception of the church -- even in languages other than English -- to go away. Still, many more members will now try hard to use the names Pres. Nelson urges. It's just how we roll.

concerned

08-17-2018, 10:43 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkzyYVvVsAEdvuX.jpg

Brian

08-17-2018, 12:08 PM

:rofl:

LA Ute

11-02-2018, 12:20 PM

I generally pay little attention to Matt Walsh because he's usually hard to take. But this headline caught my eye. He seems surprisingly open-minded on this issue, given that he's a hard-core Evangelical on other issues.

Matt Walsh's 5 Bible-Based Arguments Against Young-Earth Creationism (https://pjmedia.com/faith/matt-walshs-5-bible-based-arguments-against-young-earth-creationism/)

LA Ute

12-08-2018, 10:40 AM

Andrew Sullivan:

America’s New Religions

Which is to say, even today’s atheists are expressing an attenuated form of religion. Their denial of any God is as absolute as others’ faith in God, and entails just as much a set of values to live by — including, for some, daily rituals like meditation, a form of prayer.

In his highly entertaining book, The Seven Types of Atheism, released in October in the U.S., philosopher John Gray puts it this way: “Religion is an attempt to find meaning in events, not a theory that tries to explain the universe.” It exists because we humans are the only species, so far as we can know, who have evolved to know explicitly that, one day in the future, we will die. And this existential fact requires some way of reconciling us to it while we are alive.

This is why science cannot replace it. Science does not tell you how to live, or what life is about; it can provide hypotheses and tentative explanations, but no ultimate meaning

Ditto history. My late friend, Christopher Hitchens, with a certain glee, gave me a copy of his book, God Is Not Great, a fabulous grab bag of religious insanity and evil over time, which I enjoyed immensely and agreed with almost entirely. But the fact that religion has been so often abused for nefarious purposes — from burning people at the stake to enabling child rape to crashing airplanes into towers — does not resolve the question of whether the meaning of that religion is true. It is perfectly possible to see and record the absurdities and abuses of man-made institutions and rituals, especially religious ones, while embracing a way of life that these evil or deluded people preached but didn’t practice. Fanaticism is not synonymous with faith; it is merely faith at its worst. That’s what I told Hitch: great book, made no difference to my understanding of my own faith or anyone else’s. Sorry, old bean, but try again.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/andrew-sullivan-americas-new-religions.html

NorthwestUteFan

12-08-2018, 03:13 PM

If you define "religion" as spirituality or philosophy for life, then I guess you could call atheism a religion. That is the only way that article makes any sense.

Sullyute

12-08-2018, 06:00 PM

Andrew Sullivan:

America’s New Religions

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/andrew-sullivan-americas-new-religions.html

I really like what he is saying there.

LA Ute

12-09-2018, 10:15 AM

If you define "religion" as spirituality or philosophy for life, then I guess you could call atheism a religion. That is the only way that article makes any sense.

It looked to me like Sullivan, who is a truly heterodox thinker, by the way, is saying that even non-believers substitute some type of higher authority or guiding light in their lives for divinity. I think he is right. Everybody places faith in something.

I´ve always thought that there are very few true atheists. The more intellectually honest description is agnostic, since the existence or non-existence of any deity is unprovable. I admire a great many agnostics, some of whom are close friends.

LA Ute

12-15-2018, 08:13 AM

I’ve always liked this Christmas poem. To me it is sobering.

Christ Ran Stumbling

Christ ran stumbling down the street
on little twisted feet;
small blue hands over the place
where someone had bruised his face.
His starved, thin body shook with tears
and quick short gasps of fear.

Bitter the December day,
streets and sky an equal gray;
no brightness, but the neoned pub
where city men with Christmas grin
forgetfully went out and in.

When did we see you? folk will say
at the last day.

--The Rev. Anthony Ross, Lord Rector of the University of Edinburgh

Ma'ake

12-15-2018, 10:06 AM

I´ve always thought that there are very few true atheists. The more intellectually honest description is agnostic, since the existence or non-existence of any deity is unprovable. I admire a great many agnostics, some of whom are close friends.

Very much agree. Religion itself has such a strong imprint of being a product of human beings. The ridiculous stories, rituals and rules don't invalidate the ultimate question of what happens next.

In my experience, there is reason to be hopeful, yet in so many instances, religion squeezes faith out of people, when they look more deeply at what they've signed up for.

LA Ute

12-15-2018, 11:20 PM

The ridiculous stories, rituals and rules....

Technical foul! Two shots, I get possession of the ball afterwards. 😀

Rocker Ute

12-17-2018, 01:43 PM

Every great Christmas story needs a stop motion animation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DgMBvEsqzs

LA Ute

01-02-2019, 09:20 PM

This will be quite the subject of discussion for some time. I’m pretty excited.

LDS Church changes temple ceremony; faithful feminists will see revisions and additions as a ‘leap forward’
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/01/02/lds-church-releases/ (https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/01/02/lds-church-releases/)

(Note for those who aren’t familiar with Peggy Fletcher Stack: I’ve known her for decades. She does interview her friends and acquaintances for her articles, and she’s done that here. I still think it’s a good article.)

UtahsMrSports

01-03-2019, 08:23 AM

There is a thread on both the "mormon" and "Ex-mormon" subreddits that go over the changes. Apparently they have cut about 20 minutes of run time down. I like that a lot as I felt the new ones dragged on way too long with needless theatrics. I guess I need to get to a session soon. Apparently all 3 temple ordinances saw changes.

Quick PFS story: A friend of mine was an early returned missionary around the time that she wanted to do a feature on such folks. She contacted him and interviewed him about his experiences. In the article, he wasn't mentioned or quoted (which no doubt happens often). When he reached out to ask why, he was told that his story didn't fit the narrative of what she wanted to portray. I have had a bit of a struggle taking her seriously since then.

Applejack

01-03-2019, 08:36 AM

This will be quite the subject of discussion for some time. I’m pretty excited.

LDS Church changes temple ceremony; faithful feminists will see revisions and additions as a ‘leap forward’

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/01/02/lds-church-releases/ (https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/01/02/lds-church-releases/)

(Note for those who aren’t familiar with Peggy Fletcher Stack: I’ve known her for decades. She does interview her friends and acquaintances for her articles, and she’s done that here. I still think it’s a good article.)

Loved this line:

With the latest changes, temple attendance is sure to surge in coming days as faithful members, eager to see the ceremony for themselves, flock to one of the faith’s 161 operating temples around the world.

LA Ute

01-03-2019, 12:53 PM

Loved this line:

Hey, attendance at stake conference is always higher when people know a charismatic GA is visiting. This is much bigger!

LA Ute

01-03-2019, 05:27 PM

Thought piece:

From Astrology to Cult Politics—the Many Ways We Try (and Fail) to Replace Religion

https://quillette.com/2018/12/27/from-astrology-to-cult-politics-the-many-ways-we-try-and-fail-to-replace-religion/

LA Ute

01-14-2019, 08:29 AM

Interesting statistics on hate crimes against religious groups. The crimes against latter-day Saints seem like a drop in the bucket.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900050212/the-fbi-has-been-tracking-crimes-against-latter-day-saints-for-3-years-heres-why.html

Dwight Schr-Ute

01-14-2019, 08:51 AM

Scorcho

01-14-2019, 10:33 AM

The FBI obviously didn't attend the rivalry game in November then.

since you're too humble, I'll do it for you :rimshot:

LA Ute

03-05-2019, 07:20 AM

American Karni

Jewish Commentary

FEB, 2019 BY MEIR Y. SOLOVEICHIK

All is in the Hands of Heaven, except for the fear of Heaven.

—Rabbi Hanina, the Talmud, fifth century C.E.

Jews don’t believe in heaven.

—New York Times Reporter Annie Karni, Twitter, 2019

Amidst the torrent of nonsense and invective that comprises so much of social media today, one single tweet perfectly captured the tragic assimilation of American Jewry, and the ignorance of the American media.

It came in the middle of the State of the Union—at a rare moment in the speech at which all assembled, Democrat and Republican, rose in rapturous applause. President Trump quoted Joshua Kaufman, a Jewish survivor of Dachau, describing the arrival of American liberators. “To me,” Joshua recalled, “the arrival of the American soldiers was proof that God exists, and they came from the sky.” The president then added: “They came down from Heaven.”

It was a moment with which no one could find fault—except for New York Times White House correspondent Annie Karni. She believed she had caught the president in a theological error and decided to inform her 75,000 followers. “Trump just ad-libbed ‘they came down from heaven’ when quoting a Holocaust survivor watching American soldiers liberate Dachau,” she tweeted, and then she added an assertion: “Jews don’t believe in Heaven.”

They don’t?

The Bible describes a heavenly realm as the throne room of God. “Look down from Thy holy habitation, from Heaven,” Deuteronomy beseeches, “and bless thy people Israel.” The mystical visions of this realm of angels open both the books of Isaiah and Ezekiel, and similar images are found throughout the Bible. For the rabbis of the Talmud, it was in this celestial realm that souls abide after death, until the ultimate resurrection of the dead predicted in the book of Daniel, when “many who sleep in the dirt shall awake.” So central is the concept of Heaven, in the Talmud, that the word became synonymous with God himself; the central virtue in the Talmud is known as Yir’at Shamayim, fear of Heaven, and Providence is described as occurring bidei Shamayim, by the Hands of Heaven.

Karni’s tweet, in other words, was utterly untrue. Eventually, she posted a half-hearted addition, without any apology for error. “This,” she wrote, “was sent to me by a reader: ‘While it’s true that the Bible does not mention an afterlife, there is a complex eschatology that includes a very detailed map of the Jewish afterlife contained in rabbinic, kabbalistic and Hasidic literature.’” Leaving aside the explicit biblical descriptions of Heaven, as well as its predictions of resurrection, Karni need only have paid attention during a traditional Jewish service once in her life to realize how wrong she had been.

Isaiah’s and Ezekiel’s celestial visions are brought to life in the kedusha, the central communal prayer recited in synagogue every day. At funerals, a memorial prayer speaks of the ascension of the soul to the Garden of Eden; the Kol Nidre prayer begins by describing the “assembly above” joined with “the assembly below.” Later, during the Day of Atonement, the souls of loved ones are remembered in the Yizkor prayer. Only a person with no familiarity with the Jewish liturgy of the past two millennia could so matter-of-factly tweet out the calumny that Jews do not believe in Heaven.

Meanwhile, Karni’s original posting remained, garnering several thousand retweets and over 10,000 likes. The tweet thus reveals that many in the media know little, and care even less, about accurately understanding the beliefs of millions of religious Americans. Karni is herself Jewish; her father is an Israeli.

Last year, when Benjamin Netanyahu referenced the biblical tale of Moses drawing water from a rock, the press quoted him as describing the prophet drawing water “from Iraq,” betraying total ignorance of one of the central texts of Western Civilization. This was, at least, a simple error; now, one of its reporters opines, without learning or experience, on whether Jews believe in Heaven.

Of course they do, and the president’s ad lib was entirely apt. Traditional Jews believe that the Americans were indeed sent by Heaven to liberate Dachau, and they believe as well that those who died in the camps are now in Heaven. The murdered millions are remembered in services throughout the Jewish world on Holocaust Remembrance Day, as well as in many synagogues during the Yizkor service on Yom Kippur. There, the traditional prayer, known by its opening words as the El Maleh Rahamim, is soulfully, and sorrowfully, sung:

O God, Full of Mercy, Who Dwells on High

Find a sustaining repose under the wings of the Divine Presence,

With the ascent of the holy and pure

Shining as rays of the heavens

The souls of the six million who were killed, murdered, slaughtered, gassed, who died sanctifying the divine name

For we pray, and pledge charity, in memory of their souls,

In the Garden of Eden be their repose.

Therefore, may the Master of Mercies,

Hide them in the shelter of His wings for all eternity

And bind up their souls in the bonds of eternal life,

The Lord is their inheritance; and may they rest in peace where they lie and let us say Amen.
In 2019, a correspondent for the most powerful newspaper in the world has hit upon a scoop: that the prayers of these multitudes of mourners are in vain, that despite the testimony of hundreds of pages of liturgy, and thousands of years of prayer, Jews do not believe in Heaven.

It is true, of course, that the Jewish notion of Heaven differs from that of Christianity. Judaism denies the doctrine of original sin; we believe the afterlife can be earned, rather than granted purely by grace. We further believe that even as the soul endures, an equally important immortality is achieved through transmission of Judaism to the next generation. Sephardic Jews beautifully refer to the anniversary of a loved one’s death as a nahala, an inheritance. The soul is in Heaven, but the continuation of the lives we lived also depend on the choices of our posterity.

The immortality of those who have died thus lies, at least partially, in the hands of the living. “All is in the hands of Heaven,” Rabbi Hanina opined, “except for fear of Heaven.” The idiom emphasizes the dialectic between providence and free will. Jews believe that Heaven has chosen the Jews as an eternal people and vouchsafed them a faith to be transmitted throughout history. But whether the Jews of every generation continue to believe is up to them; assimilation, and rejection of the past, is always possible. We believe in Heaven; but Jews can so easily lose their fear of Heaven.

This tragic fact is embodied in a single perverse proclamation: “Jews don’t believe in Heaven.” May Heaven forgive a generation that could so eagerly accept, so readily retweet, such an ignorant untruth; and may we, with fear of Heaven, live lives worthy of our ancestors who are in Heaven.

Meir Y. Soloveichik

Meir Y. Soloveichik is the rabbi of Congregation Shearith Israel in New York City and the director of the Straus Center for Torah and Western Thought at Yeshiva University.

LA Ute

04-02-2019, 08:02 AM

Very interesting and thoughtful dialogue on subjective reality:

https://youtu.be/0218GkAGbnU

Scorcho

04-22-2019, 11:24 AM

Rocker Ute

04-22-2019, 11:32 AM

our Easter celebration seems so vanilla as a religion. I'm sort of jealous of the symbolism and attention Holy Week gets with other faiths. What should be the most sacred of anniversaries are sort of overlooked. Remembering the Last Supper, Garden of Gesethmane, Good Friday would add more meaning if we celebrated them individually I think.

I agree on this. However one step in a positive direction was I thought it was pretty cool that for the Come Follow Me stuff this last week each day had something to do to focus on the last week of Christ's mortal life. I have young kids so it was pretty impactful for them to learn that he entered triumphant into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday only to be crucified a week later and all that happened in between.

Scorcho

04-22-2019, 11:43 AM

I agree on this. However one step in a positive direction was I thought it was pretty cool that for the Come Follow Me stuff this last week each day had something to do to focus on the last week of Christ's mortal life. I have young kids so it was pretty impactful for them to learn that he entered triumphant into Jerusalem on Palm Friday only to be crucified a week later and all that happened in between.

I like that. When I was a teenager, I had no idea about the timeline of the events and their significance. I'd heard of Good Friday, but had no idea what it related to.

sancho

04-22-2019, 01:52 PM

I'm sort of jealous of the symbolism and attention Holy Week gets with other faiths.

The best Easter tradition isn't even Christian. The Jewish passover wins this contest. I love the fixed meal celebration. Lent is a great 2nd place, though. Any tradition involving food is hard to beat.

I'm not sure who wins third place. I think you have Judaism and Catholicism and then pretty much run out of options. Probably the orthodox traditions. I'm not familiar with those but imagine they are pretty strong.

sancho

04-25-2019, 07:23 AM

LA Ute

04-27-2019, 07:28 AM

“It's our faith that He experienced everything- absolutely everything. Sometimes we don't think through the implications of that belief. We talk in great generalities about the sins of all humankind, about the suffering of the entire human family. But we don't experience pain in generalities. We experience it individually.

“That means He knows what it felt like when your mother died of cancer -- how it was for your mother, how it still is for you. He knows what it felt like to lose the student body election. He knows that moment when the brakes locked and the car started to skid. He experienced the slave ship sailing from Ghana toward Virginia. He experienced the gas chambers at Dachau. He experienced Napalm in Vietnam. He knows about drug addiction and alcoholism.

“Let me go further. There is nothing you have experienced ... that He does not also know and recognize. He understands about rape and infertility and abortion. His last recorded words to his disciples were, ‘And, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.’ He understands your mother-pain when your five-year-old leaves for kindergarten, when a bully picks on your fifth-grader, when your daughter calls to say that the new baby has Down Syndrome. He knows your mother-rage when a trusted babysitter sexually abuses your two-year-old, when someone gives your thirteen-year-old drugs, when someone seduces your seventeen-year-old. He knows the pain you live with when you come home to a quiet apartment where the only children are visitors, when you hear that your former husband and his new wife were sealed in the temple last week, when your fiftieth wedding anniversary rolls around and your husband has been dead for two years. He knows all that. He's been there. He's been lower than all that. He's not waiting for us to be perfect. Perfect people don't need a Savior. He came to save his people in their imperfections. He is the Lord of the living, and the living make mistakes. He's not embarrassed by us, angry at us, or shocked. He wants us in our brokenness, in our unhappiness, in our guilt and our grief.

— Chieko N. Okazaki, Lighten Up, Preface, p. 174)

LA Ute

04-27-2019, 08:56 AM

Last one for today. This is an interesting article. I think it contains a lot of speculation, but the author recognizes that. Lawyers will find his thesis particularly interesting, I think: This New Testament story is largely about God’s respect for procedural due process.

Procedural Violations in the Trial of the Woman Taken in Adultery

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2019/04/procedural-violations-in-the-trial-of-the-woman-taken-in-adultery.html

Rocker Ute

05-06-2019, 09:33 AM

LA Ute

05-06-2019, 09:49 AM

This is good news:

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/couples-married-civilly-authorized-for-immediate-temple-marriage?fbclid=IwAR01Cqq0mOI2ycz_g3PMYPh7u-QijHGXnfphk5QXkxQcnZ3gCq6I0grL5KE

Members can be married civilly before being sealed in the temple with no one year wait.

My wife's sister couldn't attend ours. Three of my siblings spouses had parents who couldn't attend their temple sealings. Being the youngest in my family and having not gone through the temple yet myself I got to sit in the waiting room with them. I could see the pain it caused to not be there for their children's marriage. My sister-in-law is no longer a member and my brother has talked about dreading the day if his kids chose to get married in the temple of what that will do to his wife. This will fix a lot of things.

This is huge, I think, and it makes me very happy. It's 100% consistent with the goal of honoring families and the church not causing division in families.

The First Presidency sent the following letter to Church leaders:

We affirm that the sealing of a man and woman in the temple offers eternal blessings to the couple and their posterity that can be gained in no other way. We encourage all such couples to qualify for sealing ordinances and blessings.

The policy requiring couples who have been married civilly to wait one year before being sealed is now discontinued. Couples who have been married civilly may be sealed in the temple when they receive their temple recommends.

Where possible, leaders should encourage couples to be both married and sealed in the temple. Where a licensed marriage is not permitted in the temple, or when a temple marriage would cause parents or immediate family members to feel excluded, a civil ceremony followed by a temple sealing is authorized.

We are grateful for your dedicated and inspired leadership in helping members understand, prepare for, and enjoy the blessings of eternal marriage.

LA Ute

05-06-2019, 10:54 AM

More details:

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/couples-married-civilly-authorized-for-immediate-temple-marriage

Scorcho

05-06-2019, 11:02 AM

LA Ute

05-06-2019, 02:35 PM

I think Rocker had predicted this.

All young returning missionaries will now automatically receive preapproval for admission to BYU-Pathway Worldwide’s program, a one-year, low cost, online program.

I think those credits are widely transferable. This will help a lot of young RMs.

sancho

05-06-2019, 02:41 PM

I think Rocker had predicted this.

Preapproval for admission into the Pathways program? Is this like free entrance tickets to the library? I thought anyone could sign up for the pathways program.

Diehard Ute

05-06-2019, 02:46 PM

I think Rocker had predicted this.

I think those credits are widely transferable. This will help a lot of young RMs.

If it’s like they’re regular online classes it won’t.

My wife needed a single class to be admitted to a new masters program at USU. BYU had the cheapest online option. She dropped it after a week. First the class was poorly structured, with tests not based on the book. But the final straw was when she asked to speak with the listed teacher to try and figure out how to improve, she was told they don’t allow you to speak to the teachers. You just ask questions in a message board.

She’s taking it from Weber state now, it’s more expensive, but a much better class. And one where the teacher encourages you to contact her.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Rocker Ute

05-06-2019, 03:12 PM

If it’s like they’re regular online classes it won’t.

My wife needed a single class to be admitted to a new masters program at USU. BYU had the cheapest online option. She dropped it after a week. First the class was poorly structured, with tests not based on the book. But the final straw was when she asked to speak with the listed teacher to try and figure out how to improve, she was told they don’t allow you to speak to the teachers. You just ask questions in a message board.

She’s taking it from Weber state now, it’s more expensive, but a much better class. And one where the teacher encourages you to contact her.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

For missionaries who have no access to education this is huge and obviously will be pushed for those who don't. Further information notes missionaries who want will also be taught English to participate.

It isn't a suitable platform yet for others out there but if you are from a third world country this may be a big next step.

I'll also add that I'm not necessarily surprised by Diehard's wife's experience but that this will improve a great deal over time. Look at LDS Business College or BYU-Idaho. Heck, even BYU-Provo was kind of a joke educationally as little as 30-40 years ago.

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Diehard Ute

05-06-2019, 03:19 PM

For missionaries who have no access to education this is huge and obviously will be pushed for those who don't. Further information notes missionaries who want will also be taught English to participate.

It isn't a suitable platform yet for others out there but if you are from a third world country this may be a big next step.

I'll also add that I'm not necessarily surprised by Diehard's wife's experience but that this will improve a great deal over time. Look at LDS Business College or BYU-Idaho. Heck, even BYU-Provo was kind of a joke educationally as little as 30-40 years ago.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We weren’t surprised either, after all it’s the same system the ncaa cracked down on. And now they have a warning that no athletes can take the courses haha

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LA Ute

05-06-2019, 04:21 PM

sancho

05-13-2019, 08:47 AM

Sullyute

05-13-2019, 10:30 AM

Friends, join me in stuffing the ballot box for "Amazing Grace" and "This Land is Your Land". Also, let's trim the fat of the super obscure hymns that tyrannical music leaders love to pick.

https://lds.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_2m20pSAlCEcevVb

Sorry, I put all my eggs in the “Come thou Font” basket.

sancho

05-13-2019, 11:23 AM

Sorry, I put all my eggs in the “Come thou Font” basket.

Come Thou Fount is a given. They've already said it's leading the voting. But "This Land is Your Land" has just one vote that I know of so far. Come on!

Rocker Ute

05-13-2019, 11:40 AM

I'm kind of surprised they wouldn't put this behind the lds.org login... it may solicit some interesting responses being open to the public.

mUUser

05-13-2019, 01:09 PM

Or........just sing the ones you want and answer email/text during the others. Hey, as a former jock, I can't be bothered with choosing hymns. :o :football:

Scorcho

05-13-2019, 02:07 PM

I assume some of the LDS deep cuts are on the cutting block. I'm in favor of nixing "If you could hie to Kolob".

sancho

05-13-2019, 03:19 PM

I assume some of the LDS deep cuts are on the cutting block. I'm in favor of nixing "If you could hie to Kolob".

That's an "all or nothing" hymn. If you don't sing all verses, it doesn't make any sense at all.

Rocker Ute

05-13-2019, 03:20 PM

That's an "all or nothing" hymn. If you don't sing all verses, it doesn't make any sense at all.

My vote is nothing. Least favorite hymn of all time - mostly for the music.

sancho

05-13-2019, 03:22 PM

My vote is nothing. Least favorite hymn of all time - mostly for the music.

For the music? That makes no sense. The lyrics are baffling, but the music is fine. It's a borrowed tune that many Christian hymns share.

Scorcho

05-13-2019, 03:53 PM

For the music? That makes no sense. The lyrics are baffling, but the music is fine. It's a borrowed tune that many Christian hymns share.

isn't Kolob sort of fringe doctrine at best? it seems like the last 25 years or so, they are trying to stay away from these.

Rocker Ute

05-13-2019, 04:03 PM

For the music? That makes no sense. The lyrics are baffling, but the music is fine. It's a borrowed tune that many Christian hymns share.

It is a trudging along tune compounded by the lyrics. There are no words that you could put to that music to make it good.

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Dwight Schr-Ute

05-13-2019, 04:22 PM

Friends, join me in stuffing the ballot box for "Amazing Grace" and "This Land is Your Land". Also, let's trim the fat of the super obscure hymns that tyrannical music leaders love to pick.

https://lds.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_2m20pSAlCEcevVb

I’m cool with This Land Is Your Land so long as we get to sing all of it.

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sancho

05-13-2019, 04:24 PM

I’m cool with This Land Is Your Land so long as we get to sing all of it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190513/58016d8762eedf51d1c9f35e626fe344.jpg

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I've always loved the "no trespassing" verse.

LA Ute

05-14-2019, 08:06 AM

How about “Old Time Religion?”

Give me that old-time religion
Give me that old-time religion
Give me that old-time religion
It's good enough for me

It was good for our mothers
It was good for our mothers
It was good for our mothers
And it's good enough for me

It has served our fathers
It has served our fathers
It has served our fathers
And it's good enough for me

Makes me love everybody
Makes me love everybody
Makes me love everybody
And it's good enough for me

It will take us all to heaven
It will take us all to heaven
It will take us all to heaven
And it's good enough for me

[emoji16]

sancho

05-14-2019, 08:47 AM

I considered "We Shall Overcome" in addition to "This Land", but I figured one hippy folk song was enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqT9yegqoRk

Scorcho

05-14-2019, 10:33 AM

I wouldn't mind seeing a couple of current primary songs get added to the new hymn book

LA Ute

05-14-2019, 10:47 AM

I wouldn't mind seeing a couple of current primary songs get added to the new hymn book

Some of my favorite songs are primary songs.

Sullyute

05-14-2019, 10:48 AM

isn't Kolob sort of fringe doctrine at best? it seems like the last 25 years or so, they are trying to stay away from these.

I love that song. Keep Mormonism weird!

chrisrenrut

05-14-2019, 11:01 AM

I think all the songs in the soundtrack of O Brother Where Art Thou should be included. Man of Constant Sorrow lyrics may not fit well, but it definitely has a hymn-sounding title.

Scorcho

05-14-2019, 11:51 AM

I love that song. Keep Mormonism weird!

you probably also like personal accounts of 3 Nephite Stories in the church news and in testimony meetings :D

Sullyute

05-14-2019, 01:13 PM

you probably also like personal accounts of 3 Nephite Stories in the church news and in testimony meetings :D

Along with stories of the Sons of Helaman protecting the [insert favorite temple here] temple from the Satan’s minions!

LA Ute

05-14-2019, 01:39 PM

Along with stories of the Sons of Helaman protecting the [insert favorite temple here] temple from the Satan’s minions!

John the Beloved pops up now and then too, so don't forget him.

LuckyUte

05-18-2019, 07:06 PM

So many excellent gospel songs, especially those with a bluesy bent. For example, the 1930's Blind Willie Johnson song, John the Revelator. You tell me that your standard issue ward meeting wouldn't be so boring if some of the gospel music was imported. Imagine your ward organist playing some of the hammond organ parts on these types of songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IHOM0DkBH8

LA Ute

05-27-2019, 09:19 AM

Despite this guy’s LDS-sounding name, he is not at BYU.

Religious Faith and the Family: An Interview with Dr. W. Bradford Wilcox

https://quillette.com/2019/05/23/religious-faith-and-the-family-an-interview-with-dr-w-bradford-wilcox/

LA Ute

07-11-2019, 04:00 PM

I don’t really care about this issue at all, so I am just posting this to inflame SU and others here. Call me a troll, but I’m a friendly troll and full of love for those whom I am trolling.

Yes world, there were horses in Native culture before the settlers came

https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/news/yes-world-there-were-horses-in-native-culture-before-the-settlers-came-JGqPrqLmZk-3ka-IBqNWiQ/

Also, since this information resulted from the work of a non-LDS Native American scholar, anyone who questions it is probably a racist.

LA Ute

07-19-2019, 03:13 PM

OK, this is satire:

9 Things We’re Looking Forward To In Heaven (https://babylonbee.com/news/9-things-were-looking-forward-to-in-heaven)

LA Ute

07-29-2019, 07:07 PM

I thought this reflected an interesting controversy within the evangelical world.

Whither Evangelical Purity Culture? Thoughts on the Legacy of a Lost Pastor

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/07/whither-evangelical-purity-culture-thoughts-on-the-legacy-of-a-lost-pastor/

tooblue

08-04-2019, 02:36 PM

with Berlinski, Meyer, and Gelernter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noj4phMT9OE

UTEopia

08-04-2019, 04:35 PM

OK, this is satire:

9 Things We’re Looking Forward To In Heaven (https://babylonbee.com/news/9-things-were-looking-forward-to-in-heaven)

In my heaven the 1998 NCAA Championship game will end with the Utes winning.

Scorcho

09-05-2019, 07:47 PM

https://www.ksl.com/article/46633046/live-action-series-will-bring-book-of-mormon-stories-to-life-at-the-end-of-the-month

Looking forward to these. The LDS Bible ones were so well done.

sancho

09-05-2019, 08:13 PM

Looking forward to these. The LDS Bible ones were so well done.

I didn't know about these. I'll try to find them for our family home evenings.

USS Utah

09-07-2019, 11:01 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08SeeF_n6sM

LA Ute

11-05-2019, 07:26 AM

This is well done, and a fair description of the Latter-day Saint view of the First Vision.

https://youtu.be/lBvxbVs7Kgc

LA Ute

12-24-2019, 02:10 AM

I enjoyed this:

SINGING WITH THE LUTHERANS
by Garrison Keillor

I have made fun of Lutherans for years - who wouldn't, if you lived in Minnesota? But I have also sung with Lutherans, and that is one of the main joys of life, along with hot baths and fresh sweet corn.

We make fun of Lutherans for their blandness, their excessive calm, their fear of giving offense, their lack of speed and also for their secret fondness for macaroni and cheese. But nobody sings like they do.

If you ask an audience in New York City, a relatively Lutheranless place, to sing along on the chorus of 'Michael Row the Boat Ashore', they will look daggers at you as if you had asked them to strip to their underwear. But if you do this among Lutherans they'll smile and row that boat ashore and up on the beach! And down the road!

Lutherans are bred from childhood to sing in four-part harmony. It's a talent that comes from sitting on the lap of someone singing alto or tenor or bass and hearing the harmonic intervals by putting your little head against that person's rib cage. It's natural for Lutherans to sing in harmony. We're too modest to be soloists, too worldly to sing in unison. When you're singing in the key of C and you slide into the A7th and D7th chords, all two hundred of you, it's an emotionally fulfilling moment.

I once sang the bass line of Children of the Heavenly Father in a room with about three thousand Lutherans in it; and when we finished, we all had tears in our eyes, partly from the promise that God will not forsake us, partly from the proximity of all those lovely voices. By our joining in harmony, we somehow promise that we will not forsake each other.

I do believe this: These Lutherans are the sort of people you could call up when you're in deep distress. If you're dying, they'll comfort you. If you're lonely, they'll talk to you. And if you're hungry, they'll give you tuna salad!

The following list was compiled by a 20th century Lutheran who, observing other Lutherans, wrote down exactly what he saw or heard:

1. Lutherans believe in prayer, but would practically die if asked to pray out loud.

2. Lutherans like to sing, except when confronted with a new hymn or a hymn with more than four stanzas.

3. Lutherans believe their pastors will visit them in the hospital, even if they don't notify them that they are there.

4. Lutherans usually follow the official liturgy and will feel it is their way of suffering for their sins.

5. Lutherans believe in miracles and even expect miracles, especially during their stewardship visitation programs or when passing the plate.

6. Lutherans feel that applauding for their children's choirs would make the kids too proud and conceited.

7. Lutherans think that the Bible forbids them from crossing the aisle while passing the peace.

8. Lutherans drink coffee as if it were the Third Sacrament.

9. Some Lutherans still believe that an ELCA bride and an LC-MS groom make for a mixed marriage. (For those of you who are not Lutherans, ELCA is Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and LC-MS is Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, two different divisions of the same Protestant religion. And when and where I grew up in Minnesota, intermarriage between the two was about as popular as Lutherans and Catholics marrying.)

10. Lutherans feel guilty for not staying to clean up after their own wedding reception in the Fellowship Hall.

11. Lutherans are willing to pay up to one dollar for a meal at church.

12. Lutherans think that Garrison Keillor stories are totally factual.

13. Lutherans still serve Jell-O in the proper liturgical color of the season and think that peas in a tuna noodle casserole add a little too much color.

14. Lutherans believe that it is OK to poke fun at themselves and never take themselves too seriously.

And finally, you know you're a Lutheran when:

*It's 100 degrees, with 90% humidity, and you still have coffee after the service;

*You hear something really funny during the sermon and smile as loudly as you can;

*Donuts are a line item in the church budget, just like coffee;

*The communion cabinet is open to all, but the coffee cabinet is locked up tight;

*When you watch a 'Star Wars' movie and they say, 'May the Force be with you', you respond, 'and also with you';

*And lastly, it takes 15 minutes to say, 'Good bye'.

chrisrenrut

12-24-2019, 10:07 AM

6. Lutherans feel that applauding for their children's choirs would make the kids too proud and conceited

This one bugs me about Mormon's too. We have amazing musical talent in our ward, and when they perform or even when the kids sing their hearts out, it feels hollow not to be able to show some sign of our appreciation.

Rocker Ute

12-26-2019, 02:10 PM

This one bugs me about Mormon's too. We have amazing musical talent in our ward, and when they perform or even when the kids sing their hearts out, it feels hollow not to be able to show some sign of our appreciation.

Do ASL applause. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqFeKj6awhU

chrisrenrut

12-27-2019, 02:25 PM

Do ASL applause. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqFeKj6awhU

If done in church, I think you'd also have to loudly proclaim "hallelujah" or "amen".

LA Ute

01-17-2020, 09:13 AM

I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about intelligent design, but these seem like pretty interesting numbers.

https://youtu.be/EE76nwimuT0

LA Ute

01-30-2020, 04:09 PM

Hmmm. This should be interesting.

New General Handbook for Church Leaders and Members to Be Published in February

http://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/new-general-handbook-coming-in-february-2020
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/new-general-handbook-coming-in-february-2020

Scorcho

02-03-2020, 01:04 PM

this ward should be given special permission to treat visitors as poorly as they can possibly be treated

https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow/status/1224173998646288385

if I were bishop of this ward it would be extremely difficult for me to welcome them. I'd insist they weren't allowed to attend.

sancho

02-03-2020, 01:21 PM

chrisrenrut

02-03-2020, 03:33 PM

I don't know who these people are. Why are we supposed to treat them poorly?

They are the recently married coupe from Idaho Falls who can’t or won’t provide any information about their two missing children. Also, both of their spouses dies recently, and they married each other very shortly after.

sancho

02-04-2020, 12:05 PM

Diehard Ute

02-07-2020, 10:03 PM

They are the recently married coupe from Idaho Falls who can’t or won’t provide any information about their two missing children. Also, both of their spouses dies recently, and they married each other very shortly after.

Let’s get a bit more specific.

July 2019 Lori’s husband is shot and killed by her brother Alex Cox who claims self defense, case is still open.

September 2019 - Last time anyone has contact with Lori’s two children

October 2019 - Chad’s wife dies in Idaho and is buried in Utah county. 2 weeks later Chad and Lori marry.

November 2019 - Police in Idaho go to Chad and Lori’s home to conduct a welfare check on the youngest child. They tell police the child is with friends In Arizona. Police are able to prove this is not true and return the next day. Lori and Chad have moved and are not at the house when police arrive.

December 2019 - Alex Cox dies at his home, case is still open

Lori and Chad are later found in Hawaii.

Both Lori and Chad are known to believe the second coming is near.

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LA Ute

02-11-2020, 05:21 PM

Let’s get a bit more specific.

July 2019 Lori’s husband is shot and killed by her brother Alex Cox who claims self defense, case is still open.

September 2019 - Last time anyone has contact with Lori’s two children

October 2019 - Chad’s wife dies in Idaho and is buried in Utah county. 2 weeks later Chad and Lori marry.

November 2019 - Police in Idaho go to Chad and Lori’s home to conduct a welfare check on the youngest child. They tell police the child is with friends In Arizona. Police are able to prove this is not true and return the next day. Lori and Chad have moved and are not at the house when police arrive.

December 2019 - Alex Cox dies at his home, case is still open

Lori and Chad are later found in Hawaii.

Both Lori and Chad are known to believe the second coming is near.

And you think this is a suspicious timeline? :rolleyes:

Scorcho

02-12-2020, 12:21 PM

the last few weeks they have been attending an LDS Ward in Maui, they informed the Bishop of the Maui ward that the press is one sided and they're only getting one side of the story. If I attended that ward, I'd find it impossible not to confront them. "Your welcome to attend here, once you've complied with the court order." The safety of your children overrides your freedom to worship.

LA Ute

02-12-2020, 05:58 PM

Scorcho

02-12-2020, 08:28 PM

It was their marriage 2 weeks after his wife died that got me.

Before her death, he claimed to have a premonition that she was going to die soon. When she died he refused an autopsy. I didn’t even know that was a possibility?

LA Ute

02-12-2020, 09:08 PM

Before her death, he claimed to have a premonition that she was going to die soon. When she died he refused an autopsy. I didn’t even know that was a possibility?

In most states certain deaths are coroner's cases and no one has any say in whether or not there will be an autopsy -- there's just going to be one. But I don't know the relevant law in Utah or the facts surrounding her death.

chrisrenrut

02-13-2020, 12:08 AM

I’ve been listening to Helter Skelter, the book by the prosecutor of the Manson family killings. These doomsday cults twist their brains into thinking anything they do is God’s will, including stealing and killing other people. It was really interesting to hear Charlie’s take on Revelation chapter 9. He interpreted it as the Beatles were the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse, their White Album was all prophesies and messages about Helter Skelter, the Black race rising up against the Caucasian’s. They would take shelter in an underground abyss in Death Valley, and build their progeny up to 144,000, then come retake power from the Black race. Spoiler alert- they justified killing inhabitants of 2 houses to kick off the racial war.

Makes me wonder what justification these two wackos likely came up with to kill their spouses and kids.

Diehard Ute

02-13-2020, 06:08 AM

In most states certain deaths are coroner's cases and no one has any say in whether or not there will be an autopsy -- there's just going to be one. But I don't know the relevant law in Utah or the facts surrounding her death.

She died in Idaho

But the sheriff has said there was nothing suspicious at the time so no autopsy was done, but then it became suspicious so they exhumed her body in Utah.

In Utah any unattended death law enforcement responds and investigates. But we also call the medical examiner who 9 times out of 10 takes custody of the body.

The only time an autopsy isn’t done is if there is zero indication of foul play and the individual has been seen by a doctor in the last 30 days and the doctor is contacted and is comfortable signing the death certificate.

Scorcho

02-13-2020, 04:16 PM

She died in Idaho

But the sheriff has said there was nothing suspicious at the time so no autopsy was done, but then it became suspicious so they exhumed her body in Utah.

In Utah any unattended death law enforcement responds and investigates. But we also call the medical examiner who 9 times out of 10 takes custody of the body.

The only time an autopsy isn’t done is if there is zero indication of foul play and the individual has been seen by a doctor in the last 30 days and the doctor is contacted and is comfortable signing the death certificate.

my mom died at a young age in her sleep in Utah, and they required an autopsy. My dad had no say it in it, but wanted to know why she passed, so it wasn't an issue. I just assumed that if there were mysterious reasons behind your death that it was mandatory? I think it should be.

Diehard Ute

02-13-2020, 04:44 PM

my mom died at a young age in her sleep in Utah, and they required an autopsy. My dad had no say it in it, but wanted to know why she passed, so it wasn't an issue. I just assumed that if there were mysterious reasons behind your death that it was mandatory? I think it should be.

It’s all up to to the medical examiner. They have an investigator respond to the scene and make that call.

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Scorcho

02-15-2020, 10:36 AM

this story was a 2 hour episode of Dateline with Keith Morrison last night. Thay mentioned it might be the most bizarre story of the last 25 years of Dateline.

LA Ute

02-19-2020, 08:57 AM

The new Church Handbook of Instructions is out in digital format — which apparently will always be the format now. It’s titled “General Handbook: Serving in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”, and replaces both Handbook 1 (for stake presidents and bishops) and Handbook 2 (for all other leaders).

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/new-general-handbook

This change caught my eye, and I really like it:

32: Repentance and Church Membership Councils

This chapter (formerly known as “Church Discipline”) has significant revisions. It guides leaders in a more sequential way through key decisions and actions necessary to help people repent of a serious sin. The chapter also focuses on how to help protect others from those who pose a physical or spiritual threat.

Some key terminology has changed. Disciplinary councils are now called “membership councils.” As before, these councils are an expression of love, hope and concern, designed to help Latter-day Saints through their repentance process. Also, instead of being “disfellowshipped,” members are given “formal membership restrictions.” And excommunication is now labeled a “withdrawal of membership.”

“The idea behind these terminology changes is to ensure that we understand that when we make a mistake in our life the Lord is always extending His arms of mercy,” said Sister Aburto.

LA Ute

02-23-2020, 02:42 PM

This kind of straddles politics and religion, but I think it is insightful. The blog post is by David French, whose wife is Nancy French. I know them both from the Romney campaign and think highly of them. They are never-Trumpers, and I often agree with them, but not always. Here David writes about some recent manifestations of the “horseshoe theory,“ which is that extremes at opposite ends of the ideological spectrum eventually grow to be more and more like one another.

The Church’s Real Political Correctness Problem]

The religious right has created a mirror image PC complete with cancel culture and performative anger.

[https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/the-churchs-real-political-correctness?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0MzQwNzkyLCJwb3N0 X2lkIjoyODgwNzAsIl8iOiJzTHp4dCIsImlhdCI6MTU4MjQ5Mj A1MywiZXhwIjoxNTgyNDk1NjUzLCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjE3NjUi LCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.3OmsS6-r3CYdzPxn2f0mdMnQzGXjCc65SW0UZE5W-rY

Scorcho

02-24-2020, 11:25 AM

I had no idea these fringe groups even existed. :blink:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/02/a-look-at-the-religious-circle-surrounding-chad-and-lori-daybell/

chrisrenrut

02-24-2020, 02:11 PM

I had no idea these fringe groups even existed. :blink:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/02/a-look-at-the-religious-circle-surrounding-chad-and-lori-daybell/

Riighht. That's exactly what someone in one of those groups would say.

Scorcho

02-25-2020, 11:01 AM

Riighht. That's exactly what someone in one of those groups would say.

:rofl:

LuckyUte

02-26-2020, 03:14 PM

LA Ute

04-04-2020, 10:30 PM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200405/9f5c8ae907b8443ce3f831eea9fa5d18.jpg

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UTEopia

04-05-2020, 12:09 PM

Feb. 21: The LDS Church began to close certain Temples, began quarantining missionaries in various missions and suspended church meetings in certain areas.
Feb. 27: The Church announced that it was discouraging members from outside the US from traveling to the US for General Conference.
March 11: The Church announced that members would not be allowed to attend General Conference.
March 13: The Church cancelled all Sunday services.
March 25: The Church closes all Temples.

As I watched Conference today, I determined that I will know it is safe for me to resume normal life when the Temples are re-opened and Sunday services begin again.