2016 Presidential Election

[LA Ute]

I guess we ought to have a thread on this. I'll start with this interview between Chris Cuomo and Marco Rubio (presently my favorite candidate). The interesting part (to me) begins at about 3:30:

http://youtu.be/op0oB8Jsu5A

What interests me most about this is that the discussion here is more of a debate than an interview. Cuomo even closes the interview by saying he looks forward to "continuing this debate." I really wonder if we'll ever see Cuomo approach Hillary Clinton or another Democratic candidate the same way.


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[U-Ute]

I'll start with this interview between Chris Cuomo and Marco Rubio (presently my favorite candidate).

Mr. "I am not a scientist and so I can't make any decision based on science" Rubio?

[USS Utah]

I figure that from now to election day I should be focusing on who I will give my write-in vote to.

In 2008 it was Bob Gates.

I didn't have to go the write-in route in 2012.

So far, James Stavridis is the front runner in the campaign for my 2016 write-in vote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnoQBitbNg

[LA Ute]

Carly Fiorina unloads on Trump. The Twitter responses are hilarious.

https://twitter.com/CarlyFiorina/status/629860026916716545

[LA Ute]

The Trump Goes On

http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/how-trump-campaign-will-end_1007525.html


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[U-Ute]

He is the GOP's Id personified.

[LA Ute]

He is the GOP's Id personified.

I prefer to think of him as a non-malignant cancerous growth that will be excised soon.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I prefer to think of him as a non-malignant cancerous growth that will be excised soon.

The GOP has to play nice with him, to make sure he doesn't run as an Independent. If he does it will be all over for the gop in 2016. Maybe they will put a hit on him...

After the last debate he said the Megyn Kelly had "...blood coming out of her eyes, and her whatever". He has obviously spent too many decades believing his own bullshit hype.

[LA Ute]

Matt Walsh, a very conservative pundit:

"Now, I couldn’t care less about political correctness, but actually, it is a problem that Trump says these things about women. Put aside the fact that Hillary Clinton could hang this around his neck and beat him silly with it. On a more fundamental level, a real man doesn’t talk to women, or to anyone, this way. We have reached a very sad moment in the history of the conservative movement when a desperate, vulgar, juvenile brat can be hailed by the “values voter” constituency as brave and courageous because he calls women fat pigs and tells them to get on their knees. And to label such things merely “politically incorrect” is infuriatingly absurd."

[LA Ute]

I actually know her and she's sharp as a tack and a good person. I'm not sure she can really gain traction:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=42&v=Ya2hisfkT00

[#1 Utefan]

He is the GOP's Id personified.

LOL. Except he used to be a Democrat and is line with Democrats on several key issues including abortion.

If you want to play that game, I would say that Bernie Sanders is the Democratic party personified which is why he is gaining traction in the polls. Nothing like a disheveled, environmental whacko and Marxist to rally the base.

[concerned]

another view of Carly Fiorina

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-non-californians-carly-fiorina-20150811-column.html#page=1

[LA Ute]

another view of Carly Fiorina

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-non-californians-carly-fiorina-20150811-column.html#page=1

That is a pretty standard view of Carly from the left side of the spectrum here in California. Michael Hiltzik is also one of the least credible and at least respected pundits in the state. I personally think he is a hack. This is a guy who was caught commenting, under an alias, on his own blog in order to drive up traffic. Full disclosure: my wife and I worked pretty hard on Carly's Senate campaign in 2010, and we like her personally very much. We're not supporting her this time around, however.


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[UtahsMrSports]

After watching as much of the GOP debate as I could, and knowing what the left has right now, I think I am going to vote for The Moose's Whistle as a write-in candidate, with his good buddy Comrade Crimson as Vice President.

[LA Ute]

You’re A Fool If You’re Supporting Donald Trump (And You’re Being Exploited.) (http://journal.ijreview.com/2015/08/246358-youre-a-fool-if-youre-supporting-donald-trump-and-youre-being-exploited/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=Partners&utm_term=PRM)

[LA Ute]

George Will supports Trump's excommunication from the conservative movement:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422461/donald-trump-conservative-movement


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[NorthwestUteFan]

George Will supports Trump's excommunication from the conservative movement:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422461/donald-trump-conservative-movement


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Who does George Will think he is kidding? Maybe he should stick to baseball.



This year’s Republican field is the most impressive since 1980, and perhaps the most talent-rich since the party first had a presidential nominee, in 1856. But 16 candidates are experiencing diminishment by associstion with the 17th.


Has he taken a serious look at the other 16? Each and every one of them carries a bafflingly idiotic position in at least one area shared with TheDonald, but they simply aren't as outspoken about it.

And the most 'talent rich' since 1856? This statement may be true only on account of the sheer volume of candidates. But when you diffuse all this 'talent' across 17 candidates the average candidate looks more like a Big Sky Conference bench warmer than it does a First Team All-American and Heisman Winner.

[jrj84105]

I prefer to think of him as a non-malignant cancerous growth that will be excised soon.
So an oxymoron that won't last long? That sort of could be the GOP's ID personified.

[LA Ute]

So an oxymoron that won't last long? That sort of could be the GOP's ID personified.

On second thought, he's malignant.

[#1 Utefan]

Who does George Will think he is kidding? Maybe he should stick to baseball.



Has he taken a serious look at the other 16? Each and every one of them carries a bafflingly idiotic position in at least one area shared with TheDonald, but they simply aren't as outspoken about it.

And the most 'talent rich' since 1856? This statement may be true only on account of the sheer volume of candidates. But when you diffuse all this 'talent' across 17 candidates the average candidate looks more like a Big Sky Conference bench warmer than it does a First Team All-American and Heisman Winner.

Lets see, you are mocking the entire GOP field when the best the DNC can muster is Hillary (Erasing Emails For Dummies) Clinton, Marxist Bernie (I bath once a week) Sanders, and soon to be Joe (I am the dumbest VP since Chester Arthur) Biden? The only half decent candidates in the Democratic field are the two no one cares or talks about. That says as much about the left and their supporters as Trump leading the GOP pack does about the far right.

Seriously dude, you need to take a hard look at your own party and candidates before casting any stones. It diminishes your credibility.

[LA Ute]

Who does George Will think he is kidding? Maybe he should stick to baseball.

Ideology aside, the group other than Trump includes:

Nine current or former governors:

Three former governors of large states who were re-elected twice (Bush, Perry, Pataki)
Three current governors (Walker, Kasich, Christie) who've never lost an election and have been elected twice (Walker more than that) by large margins in purple states
Three other successful governors (Jindal, who is OK; Huckabee, who is a snake oil salesman; and Gilmore -- meh.)

Two U.S. Senators with significant accomplishments;

Marco Rubio (my guy)
Lindsey Graham

You can't write these guys off as dummies. They have good records. Even Huckabee, who I can't stand. It's a good field. The Democrats have Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, neither of whom have records of achievement like most of the guys above.

The rest (Cruz, Paul, Carson, Santorum, who have no chance. Carly Fiorina, who is a smart and capable person but has not chance).

[NorthwestUteFan]

Lets see, you are mocking the entire GOP field when the best the DNC can muster is Hillary (Erasing Emails For Dummies) Clinton, Marxist Bernie (I bath once a week) Sanders, and soon to be Joe (I am the dumbest VP since Chester Arthur) Biden? The only half decent candidates in the Democratic field are the two no one cares or talks about. That says as much about the left and their supporters as Trump leading the GOP pack does about the far right.

Seriously dude, you need to take a hard look at your own party and candidates before casting any stones. It diminishes your credibility.

I am not a Democrat. I am not a fan of HillDogg in any way, and will almost vote against her because other inevitability. Calling Joe Biden the dumbest VP in history is an understatement, and that would include Dan Quayle and I will even be generous and throw in Sarah Palin.

Bernie Sanders has been on-message for 3+ decades about both parties and the entire system being broken, and that we should have a republican democracy WITHOUT having the political system controlled by wall street and big corporations. But he is also suggesting programs that will be economically impossible to implement ($15 minimum wage, free daycare, free healthcare, etc). It would be nice to have a society more like Canada or the Scandinavian countries, but that won't happen. And frankly, America isn't ready to elect a Jew from Brooklyn.

I actually like the fact that Tump is leading the pack. he demonstrates exactly how the system is broken. My fear is that the Citizen's United ruling will end in blood and tears, and the party I expected to stand up to protect the little guy against big government will be the party that turns the guns on us </hyperbole>

Surely the Republicans can find a better option somewhere.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Ideology aside, the group other than Trump includes:

Nine current or former governors:

Three former governors of large states who were re-elected twice (Bush, Perry, Pataki)
Three current governors (Walker, Kasich, Christie) who've never lost an election and have been elected twice (Walker more than that) by large margins in purple states
Three other successful governors (Jindal, who is OK; Huckabee, who is a snake oil salesman; and Gilmore -- meh.)

Two U.S. Senators with significant accomplishments;

Marco Rubio (my guy)
Lindsey Graham

You can't write these guys off as dummies. They have good records. Even Huckabee, who I can't stand. It's a good field. The Democrats have Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, neither of whom have records of achievement like most of the guys above.

The rest (Cruz, Paul, Carson, Santorum, who have no chance. Carly Fiorina, who is a smart and capable person but has not chance).

I was only commenting on those near the top who have a snowballs chance of getting close to the nomination.

Of that entire group, Rubio is probably the standout. But is he even old enough to run? For sure his lack of age will be used against him.

Kasich doesn't seem to want to be there. Christie would need to drop another hundred pounds before he could win a National, because American voters are shallow(.although i think he would be a solid POTUS).

I will thank God every if Cruz truly doesn't get a chance, He terrifies me at his current level of power.

Perry is proof that any village idiot can become a governor, luckily his new glasses add about 55 IQ points to his appearance.

Bush CAN'T win because of his name, but his position on the board at Bloomberg Family Foundation (which partnered with Planned Parenthood to push for less restrictive abortion laws) combined with his 'defund Planned Parenthood' statement, will crush him. Especially since a 'defund Planned Parenthood' statement is effectively defunding Pap Smears. He might as well say, 'I support cervical cancer!'. At least that is what the attack ads will point out.

Sarah Palin looks like a scholar compared to Scott Walker.

Lindsay Graham is too ambiguously gay to win, given all his anti-LGBT rhetoric.

Unfortunately too many ofthe wackos will be pushed to the top during the Hawkeye Cauci and the New Hampshire Primary.

LA, the truth is you are a far more impressive leader than anybody in this field. And don't google 'santorum'.

[NorthwestUteFan]

LA, I think you can break the silence now. You can admit that you were the man in the demon sheep in Carly Fiorina's ad in 2010, weren't you? :rofl:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo_Ejfc5hW8

[#1 Utefan]

I was only commenting on those near the top who have a snowballs chance of getting close to the nomination.

Of that entire group, Rubio is probably the standout. But is he even old enough to run? For sure his lack of age will be used against him.

Kasich doesn't seem to want to be there. Christie would need to drop another hundred pounds before he could win a National, because American voters are shallow(.although i think he would be a solid POTUS).

I will thank God every if Cruz truly doesn't get a chance, He terrifies me at his current level of power.

Perry is proof that any village idiot can become a governor, luckily his new glasses add about 55 IQ points to his appearance.

Bush CAN'T win because of his name, but his position on the board at Bloomberg Family Foundation (which partnered with Planned Parenthood to push for less restrictive abortion laws) combined with his 'defund Planned Parenthood' statement, will crush him. Especially since a 'defund Planned Parenthood' statement is effectively defunding Pap Smears. He might as well say, 'I support cervical cancer!'. At least that is what the attack ads will point out.

Sarah Palin looks like a scholar compared to Scott Walker.

Lindsay Graham is too ambiguously gay to win, given all his anti-LGBT rhetoric.

Unfortunately too many ofthe wackos will be pushed to the top during the Hawkeye Cauci and the New Hampshire Primary.

LA, the truth is you are a far more impressive leader than anybody in this field. And don't google 'santorum'.
You aren't a Democrat but you think Bernie Sanders has been on message for 3+ decades?!! I get wanting big money out of elections but the Dem's Trial Lawyers groups, corporations, and Unions donate as much to the left as Wall Street or any group does to the righy. Bernie Sanders is only on message if you want a Marxist type of welfare state and government dominated, centesl type of economy.

As for Scandanavia, I have visited my relatives in Norway and they are basically Marxists. The only reason that type of system hasn't crushed Norway's economy is because their population is only about 2 million more than the state of Utah and they have a ton of oil revenue from the North Sea.

I agree with you about Bush but only because of his name. His idea to defund Planned Parenthood is something that should happen, particularly in light of the disgusting behaviorand corruption that has come to light there recently. Your concerns about cervical cancer and PAP smears are just fear tactics. Those can be done at any doctors office or public health clinic and the vast majority of young women are being vaccinated against HPV now anyway.

As for Rubio, I agree he is one of if not the best in the GOP field right now. I have to laugh at your implication that he is too young, though. He is currently older and a much more tenured US Senator than Obama was when he was elected President. Of course, that experiment hasn't exactly turned out that we'll so maybe you are on to something there.

Finally, you are clearly a Democrat or lefty when you feel the need to drag Sarah Palin into a discussion even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Neither she nor Quayle were ever VP's and never made Presidential runs so trying to deflect criticism of Biden for the moron he is bease you don't like conservative politicians in general isn't relevant here.

[Diehard Ute]

Neither she nor Quayle were ever VP's .

Pretty sure Dan Quayle was the 44th Vice President of the United States


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[#1 Utefan]

Pretty sure Dan Quayle was the 44th Vice President of the United States


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You are right. My comments were more geared toward Sarah Palin who somehow always gets brought up in these discussions whether she is relevant or not. Doesn't change the fact Biden is an intellectual lightweight that can make even a guy like Quayle look good.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I said Sanders has been on-message because he hasn't changed his message in over 30 years. He has been saying exactly the same things. I didn't say I support him. I mention him because he is drawing huge crowds and may actually be a serious contender a year from now. And I think his populist message, positions on social justice and equality, and statements about getting big money out of the political peocess will resonate with a lot of people.

And the USA is already a socialist country in many ways, but not in many of the beneficial ways. It is humorous that the word 'marxist', 'liberal', and 'socialist' get used as a pejorative, because they are specific terms that don't mean what the people throwing them actually mean. Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are likely to blame for this.

Your knee-jerk reactions and ad hominem attacks on me are examples of the reason the system is so broken today. It is nearly impossible to have a critical conversation based on candidates' positions without throwing labels around.

[USS Utah]

Bernie Sanders has been on-message for 3+ decades about both parties and the entire system being broken, and that we should have a republican democracy WITHOUT having the political system controlled by wall street and big corporations. But he is also suggesting programs that will be economically impossible to implement ($15 minimum wage, free daycare, free healthcare, etc).

Don't forget free college educations.

[USS Utah]

our concerns about cervical cancer and PAP smears are just fear tactics. Those can be done at any doctors office or public health clinic and the vast majority of young women are being vaccinated against HPV now anyway.

Thanks to health care reform, preventive office visits, screenings, and even many vaccinations are covered at 100% of eligible expenses by most health care plans.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Thanks to health care reform, preventive office visits, screenings, and even many vaccinations are covered at 100% of eligible expenses by most health care plans.

This is true. The point I was trying to make is that 100% of the federal funds that go to PP are to be used specifically for non-abortion-related medical care (annual exams, birth control pills, community health care education, etc). The PP clinics are often the only affordable (low-cost or no-cost) option for these services in the poorer communities.

(The following might apply to 2016, but will absolutely apply forever after that. This is based on general trends in society).
The next person to win the General Election for POTUS will support marriage equality.
He/she will support ACA/Obamacare, either as-is or with mods to make it better (or else have a better and more effective plan, that covers more people and costs less money, and can be implemented immediately).
He/she will NOT be a warhawk and would push for more diplomacy and less saber rattling.
He/she will accept a smaller military and will be more likely yo support self-determination of foreign countries than in forcing any specific kind of government on them.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I don't disagree, and I am not necessarily a fan of PP. I also am not a fan of huge government handouts to private organizations.

But often they are the only low-cost option available in poorer areas, and and replacement clinic would need to be able to jump in and do essentially the same things for the same cost and that would require similar subsidies.

[Rocker Ute]

The Planned Parenthood discussion has reminded me of a story. I'm chuckling to myself at the thought of how all this went down, but a number of years ago my mom had taken a teenaged girl who had gotten pregnant under her wings. I don't remember the specific circumstances as to why she was doing this other than it is a very 'mom' thing for her to do as I was growing up. She always had someone she was helping out.

Anyway, the girl wanted to keep the baby, the father was essentially out of the picture. She needed help with the pregnancy and learning the skills to be a mom etc. So my mom decided that maybe they could use those sort of resources offered by PP. I can just imagine my very Mormon mom walking in there.

So she took her there and I guess it was a full-court press the whole time for her to get an abortion. I guess they kept saying, 'No, we just need access to women's health services and guidance for her pregnancy...' No luck.

I look back now and think, "Well Mom, it is Planned Parenthood... The 'planned' doesn't mean planning out your parenthood. It means planning WHEN to be a parent. It is the equivalent of going to the butcher and asking for vegetarian options."

But from that point forward the very mention of PP resulted in a "Pffft... Planned Parenthood..." rant.

I think I'll call her and bring it up today.


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[Rocker Ute]

A candidate I can get behind: Phillip Mamouf-Wifarts:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz_V4lRdtjo

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

A candidate I can get behind: Phillip Mamouf-Wifarts:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz_V4lRdtjo

Don't discount Deez Nuts.

[U-Ute]

Has the Citizens United ruling backfired on Republicans?

This article makes an interesting point that it has.

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/28/jeb_bush_is_losing_and_the_gop_establishment_has_n o_one_to_blame_but_itself/

Since all it takes is a billionaire backing you to get into the election, the Republicans get 17 people running for the nomination.

It is also highlighted in the graph in this article:

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/28/435186527/charts-2016-presidential-donors-millionaires?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=politics&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews

[mUUser]

I actually know her and she's sharp as a tack and a good person. I'm not sure she can really gain traction......

So far, she's only one of three republican candidates to ask KY County Clerk Kim Davis to either follow the law or quit her job. I like that. She's impressed me thus far.....Kasich is another that has impressed.

[mUUser]

I actually know her and she's sharp as a tack and a good person. I'm not sure she can really gain traction:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=42&amp;v=Ya2hisfkT00


I thought she was strong again tonight. It seems she IS gaining strong traction.

Tonight, I think Fiorina, Bush, Christie & Rubio were strongest. Cruz and Huckabee scare me to death and would vote them off the island pronto. Everyone else, including 2 that I've been keeping an eye on (Carson & Kasich) fell somewhere in the middle to varying degrees.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Fiorina put a HUGE dent in TheDonald tonight. She embarrassed him and left him momentarily speechless. And then she crushed everybody with the story of losing her daughter to drug addiction. Very solid performance. She certainly came across as a serious candidate.

Ben Carson perhaps made a cardinal error by admitting that he would not have invaded Afghanistan. Big error in a Republican primary, but perhaps is a welcome change of pace.

The ambiguously gay candidate from South Carolina made me chuckle with his promise to drink a LOT more when he is president.

Cruz is still terrifying. And so is I Heart Huckabees. That only makes their kerfuffle over the Kim Davis 'Eye of the Tiger' rally all the more hilarious.

[#1 Utefan]

Fiorina put a HUGE dent in TheDonald tonight. She embarrassed him and left him momentarily speechless. And then she crushed everybody with the story of losing her daughter to drug addiction. Very solid performance. She certainly came across as a serious candidate.

Ben Carson perhaps made a cardinal error by admitting that he would not have invaded Afghanistan. Big error in a Republican primary, but perhaps is a welcome change of pace.

The ambiguously gay candidate from South Carolina made me chuckle with his promise to drink a LOT more when he is president.

Cruz is still terrifying. And so is I Heart Huckabees. That only makes their kerfuffle over the Kim Davis 'Eye of the Tiger' rally all the more hilarious.


i agree Huckabee would be bad and Cruz probably too far right to have any chance at winning a general election. On the Democrat side, the terrifying candidate is the disheveled socialist Bernie Sanders. God help the country if a left wing whacko like Sanders is elected on the heels of the Obama administration.

[Solon]

Ben Carson perhaps made a cardinal error by admitting that he would not have invaded Afghanistan. Big error in a Republican primary, but perhaps is a welcome change of pace.

Carson is a Seventh-Day Adventist, a religion with a strong tradition of pacifism & conscientious objectors.
I read his book about separating the conjoined twins. It was a compelling story, but the mix of God & ego unnerved me.

[U-Ute]

I didn't watch the debates, but I found this take about Fiorina v The Donald interesting.

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/9342761/carly-fiorina-debate

[U-Ute]

Oh, and apparently the most burning question from last night's debate was finally answered: Gregory Caruso

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/mystery-gop-hunk-revealed-find-out-who-was-sitting-behind-tapper-2015179

[#1 Utefan]

Carson is a Seventh-Day Adventist, a religion with a strong tradition of pacifism & conscientious objectors.
I read his book about separating the conjoined twins. It was a compelling story, but the mix of God & ego unnerved me.
That article read like a Democrat trying to downplay every point she made. He may not have agreed with Fiorina on the points he mentioned but the examples he used to paint the picture her responses were fiction don't hold water. They were just his opinions on on why her answers wouldn't be effective or, in his opinion, pass a fact checker test.

Not sure where or what site this article came from but he lost all credibility when he inserted the blurb about AL Gore winning the 2000 election if facts mattered. I get the impression this article came from Mother Jones or similar site.

THIS WAS MEANT TO REFERENCE THE LINKED ARTICLE U-UTE POSTED.

[mUUser]

That article read like a Democrat trying to downplay every point she made. He may not have agreed with Fiorina on the points he mentioned but the examples he used to paint the picture her responses were fiction don't hold water. They were just his opinions on on why her answers wouldn't be effective or, in his opinion, pass a fact checker test.

Not sure where or what site this article came from but he lost all credibility when he inserted the blurb about AL Gore winning the 2000 election if facts mattered. I get the impression this article came from Mother Jones or similar site.

THIS WAS MEANT TO REFERENCE THE LINKED ARTICLE U-UTE POSTED.

It's Ezra Klein's rag. It's the equivalent of Michelle Malkin providing commentary on the democrats.........juuuuust a bit outside.

[LA Ute]

A thoughtful takedown of Donald Trump and his conservative fellow-travelers:

http://pjmedia.com/blog/rush-limbaughs-defense-of-donald-trump-is-shocking/#undefined

[U-Ute]

It's Ezra Klein's rag. It's the equivalent of Michelle Malkin providing commentary on the democrats.........juuuuust a bit outside.

You think Fox News or any conservative think tank would highlight this?

Absolutely not.

Please tell me what the article got wrong? I'd like to know for my own decision making purposes.

[Utahute72]

My favorite is Kasich. Well versed and has experience at all levels of government. Has shown he can work across the aisle to get things done. I also like Rubio and even Jeb to a certain extent, but I don't think he can win just based on lineage.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Kasich has been in Congress for how long? Since the early 80s I think? He is somebody who knows how the system works and how to get the job done. He is a candidate who could have broad appeal.

It is a shame that his funding will drug up and he will be forced to drop out soon. He is a Republican that many Democrats could cross over and support.

[LA Ute]

My favorite is Kasich. Well versed and has experience at all levels of government. Has shown he can work across the aisle to get things done. I also like Rubio and even Jeb to a certain extent, but I don't think he can win just based on lineage.

He'd make a great president. He is not the best candidate in the world, but he has never lost an election and has been a very successful governor of an important state (Ohio). His biggest problem is kind of like Romney's-he does not meet the standards of the far right.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

He'd make a great president. He is not the best candidate in the world, but he has never lost an election and has been a very successful governor of an important state (Ohio). His biggest problem is kind of like Romney's-he does not meet the standards of the far right.


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It is high time you moderate Republicans stand up and take back the party from those extremists who have been stealing it from you over the last few decades.

[LA Ute]

It is high time you moderate Republicans stand up and take back the party from those extremists who have been stealing it from you over the last few decades.

We'll get right on it.


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[#1 Utefan]

We'll get right on it.


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I'll get on it as soon as you start calling out the left wing of the Democratic party starting with Barack Obama.

I find it ironic that the media and left is so vocal in incessantly calling out the Tea Party and what they perceive as "extreme" when the face of their party and current POTUS s the biggest leftist the country has ever had in office. On top of that, an admitted Socialist and borderline Communist is close to taking over the lead of the DNC primaries.

Maybe it's just me but it would seem the left needs to take a hard look in the mirror at how far from center they have strayed themselves before incessantly and hypocritically calling out the Republican party for having gone too far to the right.

REPLY TO NW UTE'S COMMENTS

[NorthwestUteFan]

I'll just leave this right here:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO4SC9AVEAAQRUi.jpg

[#1 Utefan]

I'll just leave this right here:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO4SC9AVEAAQRUi.jpg

I knew you couldn't bring yourself to admit the DNC has veered as far to the left as the GOP has to the right. You might have more credibility if you did.

[LA Ute]

This is from the post I linked above:

"Is Trump, together with the American left in general, right? Has the carefully constructed, politically balanced and fine-tuned system created by our founding fathers deteriorated to the point where two angry, unprincipled gangs interested only in crushing the other side and exercising naked power confront each other like schoolboys shouting taunts at each other over a line drawn in the sand?"

The left is at least as big a problem as the far right is.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

I knew you couldn't bring yourself to admit the DNC has veered as far to the left as the GOP has to the right. You might have more credibility if you did.

WTF are you talking about? All I saw was your diatribe against LA, which is funny because he is a serious mover and shaker in Republican politics in Southern California.

Obama may have far-left ideas but he has governed largely as a centrist.

A Pres Romney presidency would likely look similar in many ways, except GM and Chrysler would likely have failed and been broken up. We would still be killing brown people with drone strikes, and Romney would probably have screwed up the treaty deal with Iran in favor of attacking them as Israel (and no rational person anywhere) pushed us to do. He likely would have put troops on the ground in Syria. Who knows whether he would have allowed the strict regulations on Wall Street, and who knows if we would have a stock market approaching 16k and unemployment rate of 5.1%.

I think the real problem here is the Centrist position has shifted (and will continue to shift) to the Left and you are feeling abandoned.

[#1 Utefan]

Rather than blowing a gasket, maybe you should have finished reading my earlier post before assuming my post was directed at LA Ute. It was directed right at you my lefty friend, as noted at the bottom of that post in caps.

Your issue is that your thinking is too far bent to the left to even know where the center lies. Anyone that thinks a guy that has spent his entire presidency dividing the country along economic lines with constant class warfare rhetoric (spread the wealth, right?), trying to socialize our health care system, and utilizing executive orders to issue unconstitutional immigration policy is not a centrist by any standard. He is a European style Socialist.

As for Syria and Libya, giving weapons and support to "rebels" sure worked out well didn't it? Those rebels are basically extremists that have now morphed into ISIS. I saw the vacuum Obama created trying to oust Gaddafi and Assad a mile off. How come the brilliant foreign policy minds of the Obama administration didn't ? The precedent of Iraq wasn't obvious enough to them?

Once again, your arguments and reply to my earlier post is based on emotion and trying to somehow imply a party that wants to remove any mention or acknowledgement of God or Christ is somehow more Christian than the evil, religious right.

Just acknowledge that the current Democrat party is veering further and further to the left ala the evil right you so frequently demonize and we'll call it good.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I use Tapatalk and didn't see that edit at the bottom.

[NorthwestUteFan]

You need to define the term socialist before we can even begin the discussion.

We didn't give arms to ISIS. They took the arms when they overran military bases held by people we thought would stand up against that type of force, rather than bring their weapons and join them.

A lot of people wanted to send in troops to prop up regimes in Libya and Egypt, but we have meddled in too many countries like that. We should know better. We sometimes need to let countries choose their own governments, even if they will not be pro-western governments or even democracies. It sucks, but that is reality.

And the tax cuts for the rich, and derail common-sense climate change regulations, and double down on the war on drugs policies of the Republicans seems to cause the polar opposite of the type of humanity that Jesus seemed to stand for.

And it is funny that you call me a 'lefty'. I was a registered Republican as recently as 2011 but stopped supporting and campaigning the party after their disastrous 2000s, and am currently unafilliated.

[NorthwestUteFan]

And for the record, over 75% of the Democrat congresscritters consider themselves to be active Christians. Another big portion are Jews, and one is a Muslim. The remainder just don't mention religion.

Are those people the party who are trying to remove God from your country?

Again, the country is naturally moving to the Left (which is still moderately Right by European standards), and the new Centrist position will of course be to the left of where you think it should be.

[NorthwestUteFan]

And FWIW (channelling my inner Yoda): When debates the Democrats have, discuss them we will...

[LA Ute]

The contrast between Fiorina's answer and the Donald's answer onhown they'd each respond to Putin is pretty funny:

Carly Fiorina: Having met Vladimir Putin, I wouldn’t talk to him at all. We’ve talked way too much to him. What I would do immediately, I would begin rebuilding the Sixth Fleet, I would begin rebuilding the missile defense program in Poland, I would also conduct military exercises in the Baltic states, I’d probably send a few thousand more troops to Germany. Vladimir Putin would get the message. By the way, the reason it is so critically important we that everyone of us know the General Soleimani’s name is because Russia is in Syria right now, because the head of the Quds Force traveled to Russia and talked to Vladimir Putin into aligning themselves with Iran and Syria to prop up Bashar al-Assad. Russia is a bad actor but Vladimir Putin is someone we should not talk to because the only way he will stop is to sense strength and resolve on the other side and we have all of that within our control. We could rebuild the Sixth Fleet. I will. We haven’t. We could rebuild the missile defense program. We haven’t, I will. We could to Senator Rubio’s point, give the Egyptians what they asked for, which is intelligence, we could give the Jordanians what they’ve asked for bombs and material. We have not supplied it, I will. We could arm the Kurds; they have been asking for this for three years. This is in our control.

TRUMP: So, number one, they have to respect you. He has absolutely no respect for President Obama. Zero. Syria's a mess. You look at what's going on with ISIS in there, now think of this: we're fighting ISIS. ISIS wants to fight Syria. Why are we fighting ISIS in Syria? Let them fight each other and pick up the remnants. I would talk to him. I would get along with him. I believe -- and I may be wrong, in which case I'd probably have to take a different path, but I would get along with a lot of the world leaders that this country is not getting along with. We don't get along with China. We don't get along with the heads of Mexico. We don't get along with anybody, and yet, at the same time, they rip us left and right. They take advantage of us economically and every other way. We get along with nobody. I will get along -- I think -- with Putin, and I will get along with others, and we will have a much more stable -- stable world.

TAPPER: So, you -- just to clarify, the only answer I heard to the question I asked is that you would -- you would reach out to Vladimir Putin, and you would do what? You would...

TRUMP: I believe that I will get along -- we will do -- between that, Ukraine, all of the other problems, we won't have the kind of problems that our country has right now with Russia and many other nations.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I got the feeling that Trump and Putin would dine on fava beans, panda bear liver, and human fetal tissue with a nice Chianti and then choke out a Hooker for dessert.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Scott Walker drops out.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Scott Walker drops out.

"Scott Walker announces today that he's dropping out of the presidential campaign to remind everyone that he was actually still in the presidential campaign."

[NorthwestUteFan]

"Scott Walker announces today that he's dropping out of the presidential campaign to remind everyone that he was actually still in the presidential campaign."

Everybody who polls lower than the 15 yr old kid from Iowa called 'Deez Nutz' should drop out now. Also Deez Nutz needs to find a running mate named Anya Chinn...

And finally, remember that Michelle Bachman and Rick Santorum were running #1 and #2 at this point before the 2012 election. There is a LOT of football left to play between now and then.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Everybody who polls lower than the 15 yr old kid from Iowa called 'Deez Nutz' should drop out now. Also Deez Nutz needs to find a running mate named Anya Chinn...

And finally, remember that Michelle Bachman and Rick Santorum were running #1 and #2 at this point before the 2012 election. There is a LOT of football left to play between now and then.

The Deez Nutz kid should get sued by Utah's greatest cyclist David Zabriskie for trademark infringement.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Isn't Dave an attorney? It seems a lot of the Zabriskies were attorneys. I went to HS with at least one of his older sisters.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Isn't Dave an attorney? It seems a lot of the Zabriskies were attorneys. I went to HS with at least one of his older sisters.

Sorry. I misremembered the product name. It's simply DZ Nuts. The kid's off the hook.

The cyclist Zabriskie is not the same as the attorney Zabriskies. I'm not sure how much distance there is between the two, but from what I can tell, at least one of those went to BYU which alone would indicate at least a significant distance.

[SavaUte]

I've become a huge fan of Ben Carson. My concern is that he is too soft spoken and doesn't engage in the yelling and name calling, which probably makes people think he's uninformed.

I don't understand why Chris Christie doesn't get more support than he does. I guess the fact he was willing to praise Obama over anything at all has made him toxic to the GOP.

I was a huge Ron Paul fan, but I can't stand Rand Paul.

It seems like its time to cut some guys loose for the R's. Its a joke having 17 guys or whatever up on the stage. They should say something like "double digit percentage folks only" or "fav 5 only".

[mUUser]

Walker is out. Hard to believe any of the second stage candidates are still in this thing.

Would like to see Kasich make a significant move. He comes across to me as presidential and willing to reach across the aisle to get some things done.

[NorthwestUteFan]

From @TheTweetOfGod:

"The Mexican border is less insecure than Donald Trump."

[NorthwestUteFan]

The Democrat debate was interesting.

Jim Webb wants to be a Republican, and even threw out an 'I killed the bastard with my bare hands after he threw a grenade at me' line. He spent most of his time complaining about not being allowed to talk. He has already dropped out.

Lincoln Chaffed used to effectively be a Republican. He actually did an admirable job as an interim Senator, a post to which he was appointed after his father passed away in office. He made a few good points. He also dropped out.

Martin O'Malley looked like he was running for VP. He may get the call.

It was interesting those three were in the debate, while Lawrence Lessig was left out. All of their poll numbers were similar to Lessig's. Lessig is a Prof at Harvard Law School and his major focus is on campaign finance reform. He wants to establish a citizen-funded campaign finance organization that will equally fund campaigns for all candidates for a particular office. This will bring transparency to campaigns and will free political office holders from fundraising. In theory this will shift the balance of power away from big donors and bundlers and tilt toward the individual voters. This will allow office holders to spend more time discussing issues with voters and less time getting chummy with big donors like George Soros, the Koch brothers, and Super-PACs. This is a fascinating topic, and one that voters across the entire political spectrum should support. He can't win, and won't get more than 1%-3% of the vote, but this idea certainly has merit.

Bernie Sanders was in fine form as a crusty old Jewish man from Brooklyn. He makes some good points about the strengths of having a single source funding for healthcare, student loans/tuition, child care, and other expenses that can bury low- and middle- income families under insurmountable mountains of debt. Some of the funding for these programs would come from eliminating the cap on SS tax which currently lies at around $110k (eg somebody earning $75M pays the same in SS taxes as somebody making $110k). There would probably be tweaks to the top marginal rate, and perhaps adding a new rate for incomes over $500k+ income. Much of the rest would need to come from increased system efficiency. For reference, the federal government makes ~$64B in annual profit on interest from student loans, which are now single-source. This profit could be used to offset a free tuition program at state and community schools, for example.

Bernie was asked why a member of the military (for example a war hero like Jim Webb) would vote for him, he simply answered that he wouldn't send them into places where he would get them killed. I have to admit that is a compelling answer. In fact Bernie and Chaffee were the only people on the stage (who had a vote) to vote against going into Iraq. And Chaffee was a Republican at the time. Hillary voted for it and should be held accountable for that vote, positive or negative.

But Bernie overreached when he speaks about the social programs in countries like Denmark and Sweden and Canada. Those countries have a lot going for them and their citizens generally have a great quality of life. But he needs to focus on the existing social programs in the US that have been successful at helping Americans, (eg Social Security, Medicare, WIC, CHiP, food stamps programs, housing programs, the military - which is the biggest socialist program of all, etc).

But I am not convinced Bernie can win. And I am almost certain that he would be unable to get his reforms into place anyhow, at least not without a significant increase in political activism from citizens - particularly from the younger people who have a bigger stake in the future than do older voters.

Hillary Clinton gave solid answers to most of the questions, with two notable exceptions.

1) when asked how she would be different from previous presidents, she answered that she is a woman. And what else, Hill-dawg? That plus $5 will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

2) when asked what political enemies she has made, she immediately said 'Republicans'. This is an insufficient answer IMHO. I would prefer the president to be more of a uniter, one who can speak for a people rather than immediately discounting opposition parties. The battle needs to be won with rhetoric and the strength of the argument, rather than simple political positioning.

[concerned]

From @TheTweetOfGod:

"The Mexican border is less insecure than Donald Trump."

I saw a tweet this morning to the effect:

"Trump vows to prevent hurricane Patricia from crossing the border illegally."

[NorthwestUteFan]

Now back to Hillary. I have not been a fan of her. But I have to say that watching her during the Benghazi hearing I came away impressed. She comes across as an effective leader and a compassionate and empathetic person. In the positive side she may be the best qualified presidential candidate (in terms of actual bureaucratic leadership experience) in many decades, or even centuries.

In my opinion she won the election in a landslide this week. The Republicans on the Benghazi hearing embarrassed the party and spent hours rehashing topics they had already put to bed.

In the words of Elijah Cummings, we are better than that as a nation. The entire hearing showed itself to be a little more than a McCarthy-esque witch hunt and they had no problem throwing very good people under the bus (eg Ambassador Thomas Pickering and Adm. Mike Mullen) And Hillary proved that she weighs more than a duck and that her crooked, wart-covered nose was placed there by Rep Gowdy.

I hoped we would see a serious challenge from the Republicans on actual issues, but this one is all over except for the formalities.

On a positive note the next president is going to inherit a solid economy and a decent situation. The question is, will he/she be closer to an Urban Meyer at tOSU or a Brady Hoke at Michigan?

[USS Utah]

It never really mattered who ran or how they performed. The Democratic nominee was assured of the inside track to the White House because the demographics in a national election are in their favor. The last time a Republican candidate got a significant percentage of the Hispanic vote was 2004. Since then, the candidate who won that election introduced an immigration reform plan that was labeled amnesty by his own party. That party has consistently stood in the way of immigration reform ever since. At the same time, the tea faction has emerged, and there has been an effort to push so called RINOs out of the GOP. The Republicans desperately need to shed their image as the old white man party, but they are too busy reinforcing that image.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Demographically and numerically you are absolutely correct. But it goes deeper than that.

The Republicans finally got the football in the mid 2000s and held the presidency, the house, and the Senate. But they squandered all that power and still spent us into oblivion, digging a financial hole so deep that we might not be able to claw ourselves out. And we broke a number of other countries in the process, to the point that some of them can use our own definition of 'terrorism' to describe many of our actions in their countries.

We would be wise to go back to bring the Shining City on a Hill, instead of being known as the Country With the Flying Robots of Death.

As a Reagan Republican this breaks my heart.

[LA Ute]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aw3df-LpbY

[Applejack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aw3df-LpbY

LOL. That's a good video. Gaslighting.

[LA Ute]

The Insiders: CNBC has probably changed GOP presidential campaign debates forever (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/10/30/the-insiders-cnbc-has-probably-changed-gop-presidential-campaign-debates-forever/)

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Ha. Just saw that the RNC has ended their partnership with NBC over the last debate. Was it really that bad? I need to dig it up this week because the Ted Cruz response clip that I saw sounded a lot like my three year old.


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[LA Ute]

It was pretty bad. Even I, Joe Republican, must say that if I had seen similar questions asked of Hillary and Bernie I would've thought the moderators were being idiots. Yes, I would've felt schadenfreude, but I'd still have thought they were being idiots.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

It is funny they are distancing themselves from NBC over the CNBC debate, while Donald Trump will be on SNL this weekend (on NBC). Donald Trump is the honey badger, he don't give a f@*&.

The debate format and lines of questioning seem to be intended to drive ratings for cable news stations.


This election is shaping up to be a group of strong international military interventionalists, with Hillary leading the charge.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Pres Obama today:

"I see all these Republican candidates claiming they will be able to stand up to China or Russia, but then they complain about hard questions from CNBC moderators."

[Sullyute]

Pres Obama today:

"I see all these Republican candidates claiming they will be able to stand up to China or Russia, but then they complain about hard questions from CNBC moderators."
That is too funny.

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[LA Ute]

That is too funny.

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It's a heck of a zinger by the POTUS. Ben Carson responded with one of his own:

"That wouldn’t happen to be the same President Obama who was afraid to go on Fox, would it?”

[NorthwestUteFan]

Excellent stump speech by Chris Christie today. We need to greatly revise the way we deal with addiction in this country.

FdYMx7sycW4

[LA Ute]

Excellent stump speech by Chris Christie today. We need to greatly revise the way we deal with addiction in this country.

FdYMx7sycW4

Like.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Like.


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I like him a lot. I think he could have broad appeal (nationwide, across party lines). I wish he could gain more traction (within the Republican primary).

[LA Ute]

1690

[LA Ute]

“We Have Contained Them.” (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/11/13/obama_on_isis_we_have_contained_them.html)


—President Obama regarding ISIS, speaking with George Stephanopoulos on Friday's edition of ABC’s Good Morning America, in an interview videotaped Thursday.

Back in August, the Obama White House tweeted (https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/635968713464922112), “No challenge poses a greater threat to our future than climate change,” echoing a near identical statement (https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/589454641240219651) from the president in April and in February (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/climate-change-greater-threat-terrorism-white-house/story?id=28872778).

These are tragically clueless statements, and really quite infuriating in light of what's happened.

[NorthwestUteFan]

The leader of ISIS/ISIL is the Sunni leader. The previous Sunni political leader, who had kept the extremists at bay, was deposed by this guy:

[LA Ute]

If only Bush had focused on climate change.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

If only Bush had focused on climate change.


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Energy research would have been a better use of trillions of war dollars. We shouldn't forget that one of the reasons the extremists hate the West is due to our funding of and support of the Saud regime. And we need to support the House of Saud because we are greatly dependent upon them for oil.

[concerned]

If only Bush had focused on climate change.


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Time to take your anti-snark med again. Maybe get the prescription refilled.

[LA Ute]

Time to take your anti-snark med again. Maybe get the prescription refilled.

NWUF started it. How come I'm the only one who gets in trouble?


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[NorthwestUteFan]

NWUF started it. How come I'm the only one who gets in trouble?


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You got in trouble because you are old enough to know better.

[LA Ute]

You got in trouble because you are old enough to know better.

Just get off my lawn, sonny boy.


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[LA Ute]

And read this. There will be a quiz.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/11/15/mitt-romney-obama-must-wage-war-on-the-islamic-state-not-merely-harass-it/



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[UtahsMrSports]

Pretty funny piece from Kirby.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/3173504-155/kirby-want-to-fix-the-country

[U-Ute]

And read this. There will be a quiz.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/11/15/mitt-romney-obama-must-wage-war-on-the-islamic-state-not-merely-harass-it/



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Let Romney's kids sign up to be the first to go over, then we'll talk.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Let Romney's kids sign up to be the first to go over, then we'll talk.

I read an interesting science fiction book where every war was put up for a referendum vote. If the measure passed, then every person who voted for the war was required to show up for Basic Training the following morning. The country did fight in wars when absolutely necessary, and they were absolutely ferocious in battle, but the cause for the war essentially had to be am existential threat.

The problem with ISIL is its portability. The devastating and demoralizing attack in Paris was carried out by 8 people (plus support). How to root out 8 or 80 or 8000 people from a country of hundreds of millions, without substantially impacting the daily lives of the law-abiding people, is the question of our time.

[LA Ute]

Let Romney's kids sign up to be the first to go over, then we'll talk.

An interesting point but perhaps not a fair one. We do have volunteer armed forces, after all. Did you read Romney as urging a large deployment of boots on the ground?

[LA Ute]

The problem with ISIL is its portability. The devastating and demoralizing attack in Paris was carried out by 8 people (plus support). How to root out 8 or 80 or 8000 people from a country of hundreds of millions, without substantially impacting the daily lives of the law-abiding people, is the question of our time.

Asymmetrical warfare conducted by deeply committed people who are willing to die in a cowardly manner (even if their even more cowardly leaders are not) are very difficult to defeat. Isis' goal is apparently not to conquer their enemies outright, but to make daily life so intolerable for their enemies that the enemies give in. Interesitng summary here:

http://nypost.com/2015/11/15/the-jihadis-master-plan-to-break-us/

[U-Ute]

An interesting point but perhaps not a fair one. We do have volunteer armed forces, after all.

So because they are volunteers, we can be as cavalier about their lives as we'd like?


Did you read Romney as urging a large deployment of boots on the ground?

I'm not sure how else to read this quote:


After Paris, it’s clear: Doing the minimum won’t make us safe. It’s time the president stopped hedging and took meaningful steps to defend us and our allies.

If he's serious, his kids can volunteer. If not, then this diminishes the real sacrifices that those men and women make by trying to stoke the fires of war for some political gain.

[LA Ute]

If he's serious, his kids can volunteer. If not, then this diminishes the real sacrifices that those men and women make by trying to stoke the fires of war for some political gain.

Our military class is now pretty separate from the rest of the population. There is no draft. Very few people actually know anyone in the armed forces or have a family member who is a member. So to say that no one can support going to war unless they themselves served or their family members are willing to serve means we'll never go to war. (In the abstract, not a bad outcome.) Also, if we want to get into a discussion about using national security for political purposes (which I do not think Romney is doing here, BTW) a lot of people are going to look terrible, including just about every Democrat who was in the Senate at the time the Iraq war was authorized. President Obama has been consistent in his opposition to boots on the ground, I'll give him that. He is consistently the most liberal foreign policy president we've ever had. He out-McGoverns George McGovern. I think he's wrong but I admire his consistency. (Then again, it has been said that "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.")

[Jarid in Cedar]

Our military class is now pretty separate from the rest of the population. There is no draft. Very few people actually know anyone in the armed forces or have a family member who is a member.

I don't know or care what point you are trying to make, but this statement is utter bullshit. Personally, 3 family members and at least 40 friends/family of friends who have recently served(since 9/11) or are still actively serving.

Maybe in your protected little bubble, where nothing bad seems to happen, this may be true, but not personally knowing at least one soldier is the anomaly. Not the norm.

[Diehard Ute]

Yeah. I'm with Jarid here. I can't count how many people I know who are active or veterans, far more than my fingers and toes can count.


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[LA Ute]

I don't know or care what point you are trying to make, but this statement is utter bullshit. Personally, 3 family members and at least 40 friends/family of friends who have recently served(since 9/11) or are still actively serving.

Maybe in your protected little bubble, where nothing bad seems to happen, this may be true, but not personally knowing at least one soldier is the anomaly. Not the norm.

You got the wrong impression from what I wrote. I know many, many who have served, both in my family and among my friends. I am pretty sure that there are data showing that the overwhelming majority [EDIT: at least a very large chunk of the population] of Americans do not know anybody, and are not related to anybody, who is in the armed services. All that said, that was kind of an aside in my post. The suggestion that the Romney sons are cowards, or suffer from some other moral deficiency, because they didn't serve, is simply unfair. I will bet that most of the people on this board have never served.

Americans and Their Military, Drifting Apart (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/opinion/americans-and-their-military-drifting-apart.html?_r=0)


What Percentage Of Americans Have Served In The Military? (http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/what-percentage-of-americans-have-served-in-the-military/)


By The Numbers: Today's Military (http://www.npr.org/2011/07/03/137536111/by-the-numbers-todays-military)

[LA Ute]

This will have some impact on the 2016 election:

Obama comes under criticism from Dems over Paris rhetoric (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/260479-obama-comes-under-criticism-from-dems-over-paris-rhetoric)

[NorthwestUteFan]

This will have some impact on the 2016 election:

Obama comes under criticism from Dems over Paris rhetoric (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/260479-obama-comes-under-criticism-from-dems-over-paris-rhetoric)

Dang it. Now Obama can't get reelected.

He had better get moving on his plan to throw away the Constitution, because he is almost out of time...

[LA Ute]

Dang it. Now Obama can't get reelected.

He had better get moving on his plan to throw away the Constitution, because he is almost out of time...

Look, you miserable vomitous mass, this was my point:


The Paris attacks have also posed a challenge to Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton, who has aligned herself closely with Obama. The president remains broadly popular with Democratic voters and is viewed by most party members as an asset for the former secretary of State's campaign.But there are signs Obama could become an albatross for Clinton if foreign policy continues to dominate the 2016 race for the White House. A CBS News/New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/17/poll-watch-public-unease-with-isis-strategy-even-before-paris/) poll showed broad skepticism towards Obama’s counter-ISIS strategy even before the Paris attacks.
A guy's got to have hope.

[concerned]

Look, you miserable vomitous mass, this was my point:


A guy's got to have hope.

clinton will break from Obama; sort of the reverse of Humphrey breaking from LBJ from SLC

[LA Ute]

clinton will break from Obama; sort of the reverse of Humphrey breaking from LBJ from SLC

I've no doubt she will.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

A guy's got to have hope.

Don't underestimate the Public's war fatigue. The kids entering Boot Camp these days, all of whom will be first-time voters next year, started 1st grade 2-3 years AFTER 9/11.

I liked the interaction between Rand Paul and Marco Rubio in the last debate. Rubio said something about rebuilding the military. Paul challenged him by asking 'In what way is it Conservative to add trillions of more dollars to the deficit?'

[concerned]

Don't underestimate the Public's war fatigue. The kids entering Boot Camp these days, all of whom will be first-time voters next year, started 1st grade 2-3 years AFTER 9/11.

I liked the interaction between Rand Paul and Marco Rubio in the last debate. Rubio said something about rebuilding the military. Paul challenged him by asking 'In what way is it Conservative to add trillions of more dollars to the deficit?'

I have huge doubts that a majority of the electorate will support a foreign policy predicated on putting ground troops back in the middle east.

[LA Ute]

I think that's true. What is the proper response to ISIS? One view is that it should be treated as a law enforcement matter. I don't think that's enough. We could be more aggressive and effective without putting a lot of boots in the ground. Also, I think polls show that people are not happy with Pres. Obama's approach to terrorism. People are nervous and upset. What they would accept as a response to the ISIS challenge is the question.


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[Diehard Ute]

I think that's true. What is the proper response to ISIS? One view is that it should be treated as a law enforcement matter. I don't think that's enough. We could be more aggressive and effective without putting a lot of boots in the ground. Also, I think polls show that people are not happy with Pres. Obama's approach to terrorism. People are nervous and upset. What they would accept as a response to the ISIS challenge is the question.


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They may have just taken care of themselves.

Pissing off Russia and France at the same time was one of the dumber things they could have done.


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[U-Ute]

I've no doubt she will.


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Bernie is so far to the left, she doesn't need to do much to separate herself from him to get the Democratic nomination.

Similar to the Republican situation, we will start to see her move once she gets the nomination. The difference from the Republicans is that she doesn't have to cater to a base that is way out of step with the majority of Americans in order to get the nomination and then try to find a way to mea culpa their way back to the middle in the general election.

[U-Ute]

I think polls show that people are not happy with Pres. Obama's approach to terrorism. People are nervous and upset. What they would accept as a response to the ISIS challenge is the question.

I'd like to see these polls as nobody I know that doesn't watch Fox News exclusively has an issue with how he has handled it. Most middle Americans I know are upset at how we got into the Iraq war and are very hesitant to get involved into something else out there. Lets just get renewable energy viable and let those guys bury each other in their own tar pits.

[Diehard Ute]

I'd like to see these polls as nobody I know that doesn't watch Fox News exclusively has an issue with how he has handled it. Most middle Americans I know are upset at how we got into the Iraq war and are very hesitant to get involved into something else out there. Lets just get renewable energy viable and let those guys bury each other in their own tar pits.

As we learn more and more about polls my I find the results to be suspect at best. No matter who solicits the poll.


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[LA Ute]

Do you guys think the American public is mostly happy with the way Obama has handled foreign-policy? Check out this set of polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_foreign_policy-2821.html

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article24781165.html


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[concerned]

I think that's true. What is the proper response to ISIS? One view is that it should be treated as a law enforcement matter. I don't think that's enough. We could be more aggressive and effective without putting a lot of boots in the ground. Also, I think polls show that people are not happy with Pres. Obama's approach to terrorism. People are nervous and upset. What they would accept as a response to the ISIS challenge is the question.


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The proper response has to be political. ISIS can't be eliminated or dealt with effectively until Syria is stablized. Syria cant be stabilized until everybody decides what to do about Assad. I am willing to bet that the downing of the Russian airliner will force Russia to give up Assad in the long term--reach some sort of agreement where Assad saves face in the short term but is hung out to dry, as long as Russia's interests in its naval base are protected, and the successor govt. is acceptable to Russia as well as everyone else. The biggest effect of the Russian airliner and the Paris attacks may be to force an agreement about Assad.

Destabilizing ISIS won't end terrorism. All of the identified French attackers were indiginous Europeans, I think--either French or Belgian. Terrorists can and will wage terror with or without a caliphate.

[U-Ute]

Do you guys think the American public is mostly happy with the way Obama has handled foreign-policy? Check out this set of polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_foreign_policy-2821.html

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article24781165.html


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I think they're just sick and tired of the Washington politics. I dropped the historical data into Excel and did some smoothing, and here are the overall trend lines of his approval/disapproval ratings.

1696

Its hard to say that recent events have had any real impact.

The cross over happened in the summer of 2013.

[NorthwestUteFan]

He US military has conducted well over 6000 bombing sorties against ISIL targets this year alone. They are bombing the shit out of targets, they just don't make the news.

The more effective actions are the political actions, providing support to stabilizing forces in the region, allowing Russia to take the lead somewhat (and allow Putin to thump his chest), allow Iran to act against IS (Iran views IS as an historic, religious, and existential threat, and they will be ferocious in their actions against them). The UN, NATO, EU, etc are working to cut off sources of funding and lines of communication for IS. France arrested well over a thousand potential sleeper cell types, and has killed dozens of IS operatives in raids (most of whom were French citizens)

One of the more interesting twists is the fact that Anonymous has declared war on IS. This comes directly on the heels of Anonymous releasing the names of tens of thousands of Ashley Madison customers, followed by leaking the identity of 1000+ (alleged) KKK members. Having the loose organization of some of the best hackers in the world joining the fight to shut down the IS lines of communication could be fun...

A reporter for the BBC managed to 'interview' a leader for Anon regarding their involvement and this was their response:


*What are the aims of your operation?

Our main goal in this operation is to identify the perpetrators of the Paris terror attacks and all terrorist organizations linked to them, acquire intel to dig deep into the roots of their manpower, disable their propaganda and stop their reach on social media, release their information to the public, and flag down any threat to mankind.

*Isn't it better for the fight against IS if its members talk openly on Twitter where the security services can see them, rather than being driven underground?

The propaganda of ISIS is based on advertising their actions. They want to strike terror with their name, with bloody images, with violent videos. We can not fight them with guns and rifles, stopping their propaganda is an effective way to weaken their manpower and their presence in the Internet. Disrupting their communications makes it difficult to organise their attacks in a fluid manner.

[U-Ute]

Also, if we want to get into a discussion about using national security for political purposes (which I do not think Romney is doing here, BTW) a lot of people are going to look terrible, including just about every Democrat who was in the Senate at the time the Iraq war was authorized. President Obama has been consistent in his opposition to boots on the ground, I'll give him that. He is consistently the most liberal foreign policy president we've ever had. He out-McGoverns George McGovern. I think he's wrong but I admire his consistency. (Then again, it has been said that "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.")

I will readily admit that nearly everyone that is in Congress or runs for President are blatent sociopaths that will say anything to get what they want (generally being "more power"). That a big part of the problem. They say these things without really understanding or caring about the consequences, which is potentially putting the men and women who are supposed to only be used to protect this country in harms way for political purposes.


All that said, that was kind of an aside in my post. The suggestion that the Romney sons are cowards, or suffer from some other moral deficiency, because they didn't serve, is simply unfair. I will bet that most of the people on this board have never served.

I never said they were cowards. What I said is that I didn't like someone with influence being so cavalier with the lives of others. My suspicion is that he wouldn't be pushing for more action if his kids were active service members.

[U-Ute]

He US military has conducted well over 6000 bombing sorties against ISIL targets this year alone. They are bombing the shit out of targets, they just don't make the news.

The more effective actions are the political actions, providing support to stabilizing forces in the region, allowing Russia to take the lead somewhat (and allow Putin to thump his chest), allow Iran to act against IS (Iran views IS as an historic, religious, and existential threat, and they will be ferocious in their actions against them). The UN, NATO, EU, etc are working to cut off sources of funding and lines of communication for IS. France arrested well over a thousand potential sleeper cell types, and has killed dozens of IS operatives in raids (most of whom were French citizens)

One of the more interesting twists is the fact that Anonymous has declared war on IS. This comes directly on the heels of Anonymous releasing the names of tens of thousands of Ashley Madison customers, followed by leaking the identity of 1000+ (alleged) KKK members. Having the loose organization of some of the best hackers in the world joining the fight to shut down the IS lines of communication could be fun...

A reporter for the BBC managed to 'interview' a leader for Anon regarding their involvement and this was their response:

Anonymous is an interesting group. I follow their actions on Twitter, Reddit, and IRC. They are organized more like Al Queda or ISIL than anything else. They are a collection of independently acting cells who collectively follow a common ethos. Sometimes you see rival cells get into it with each other over "ops". So to say they have an interview with a "leader" or that they're "declaring war" means something different than most people will interpret it to be.

That being said, they are quite effective at what they do, which is exploit common security flaws in computer software to expose data to the world. The hardest part of their activity is simply finding what computers their targets are using. Once that happens though, the rest is typical social engineering and script kiddie type stuff. Given the lack of sophistication of some of these groups they are targeting (ISIL, KKK, etc), it proves to be pretty easy once they find out where they store their data.

The reactions of the KKK members exposed by them have been pretty amusing. The KKK's MO is to physically intimidate those they disagree with, but they can't do that over the internet against a faceless enemy.

[U-Ute]

Ok, now I'm convinced Trump is pulling the biggest troll job in history by running for POTUS.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/20/donald-trump-says-hed-absolutely-require-muslims-to-register/


NEWTON, Iowa — Donald J. Trump, who earlier in the week said he was open to requiring Muslims in the United States to register in a database, said on Thursday night that he “would certainly implement that — absolutely.”

[Diehard Ute]

Anonymous is an interesting group. I follow their actions on Twitter, Reddit, and IRC. They are organized more like Al Queda or ISIL than anything else. They are a collection of independently acting cells who collectively follow a common ethos. Sometimes you see rival cells get into it with each other over "ops". So to say they have an interview with a "leader" or that they're "declaring war" means something different than most people will interpret it to be.

That being said, they are quite effective at what they do, which is exploit common security flaws in computer software to expose data to the world. The hardest part of their activity is simply finding what computers their targets are using. Once that happens though, the rest is typical social engineering and script kiddie type stuff. Given the lack of sophistication of some of these groups they are targeting (ISIL, KKK, etc), it proves to be pretty easy once they find out where they store their data.

The reactions of the KKK members exposed by them have been pretty amusing. The KKK's MO is to physically intimidate those they disagree with, but they can't do that over the internet against a faceless enemy.

Unfortunately they've also done things like publish home addresses, phone numbers, family addresses etc of Police Officers involved in shootings they disagree with (before any official investigation has been completed).




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[chrisrenrut]

Regarding hackers targeting ISIS:

1697

dang, too small. Comment says: not the 72 virgins they were expecting.

[U-Ute]

Unfortunately they've also done things like publish home addresses, phone numbers, family addresses etc of Police Officers involved in shootings they disagree with (before any official investigation has been completed).

True. They don't discriminate much.

I don't really know what they can do against ISIS. It isn't like ISIS is trying to keep who they are a secret.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Regarding hackers targeting ISIS:

1697

dang, too small. Comment says: not the 72 virgins they were expecting.

That is hilarious!

Daesh/ISIL are also exceptionally good at communicating via the internetz. They are an order of magnitude more sophisticated than Al Qaeda ever were.

It is too bad that Paul Bremer disbanded the Iraqi Army, and in particular the elite Revolutionary Guard, rather than putting them to work rebuilding the country. It doesn't take very many steps of logic to recognize that the highly trained Sunni military leaders have aligned themselves with the Sunni leadership of ISIL and now put some of their abilities to use training, planning, and leading some of these actions.

[Rocker Ute]

I have huge doubts that a majority of the electorate will support a foreign policy predicated on putting ground troops back in the middle east.

This will turn on a dime if ISIS ever does something even remotely like what happen in Paris. I've got as much war fatigue as the next guy but have little confidence we are safe from such an attack or that ISIS is regionally contained.


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[concerned]

This will turn on a dime if ISIS ever does something even remotely like what happen in Paris. I've got as much war fatigue as the next guy but have little confidence we are safe from such an attack or that ISIS is regionally contained.


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well yes obviously. But as a practical matter deploying ground troops and containing or destroying ISIS may or may not make domestic terrorism less likely.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/11/europe-muslims-paris-terrorism/416964/

[LA Ute]

Ted Cruz, opportunist.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ted-cruzs-security-misstep-1447978514?alg=y


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[Rocker Ute]

well yes obviously. But as a practical matter deploying ground troops and containing or destroying ISIS may or may not make domestic terrorism less likely.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/11/europe-muslims-paris-terrorism/416964/

My point is our government seems woefully out of touch with the realities of what is going on and Obama stating that ISIS had been contained smacks awfully like Bush's 'Mission Accomplished' moment. Obama's foreign policy has never inspired a lot of confidence in me... Then again I don't know of a president who has done that for me in my adult life, so maybe that is just reality.


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[Rocker Ute]

Ted Cruz, opportunist.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ted-cruzs-security-misstep-1447978514?alg=y


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I absolutely loathe Donald Trump and I say that only to put things into perspective: I would take Trump over Cruz any day of the week.


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[LA Ute]

Interesting article about Obamacare's struggles and its possible impact on the 2016 election:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-obamacare-death-spiral-a-gift-to-2016-gop-candidates/article/2576796

Our firm switched to United Healthcare, which was the best option. Had we stayed with Blue Cross.Blue Shield our premiums would have gone up 40%. Still, the switch to United has been tough on our employees. They now have big deductibles and are pretty much forced to open health savings accounts. I think HSAs are a good idea in principle but the transition is tough. The firm is "seeding" the employee's HSA with several hundred dollars to soften the impact. At the higher end, the lawyers in the firm are paying about the same for a much narrower network of approved providers. (So much for "If you like your health plan, you can keep it; if you like your doctor you can keep him.")

I don't think Obamacare will be repealed and replaced but it will have to be modified quite a bit to be sustainable. If Clinton is elected I hope she and Congress (if it stays Republican) can work that out. Healthcare policy should not be made on a partisan basis.

[Rocker Ute]

"Financial literacy is important..." Funniest thing I've ever heard from someone in Washington.

Careful here LA, Obamacare lemmings will come out in force trying to convince you how worse healthcare coverage at a higher price is actually a good thing. If they can't do that then you are just a greedy employer.


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[U-Ute]

If Clinton is elected I hope she and Congress (if it stays Republican) can work that out. Healthcare policy should not be made on a partisan basis.

You're funny.

It has become clear that the majority of the Republican party would rather see the country burn than do anything productive as long as a Democrat is the President.

[LA Ute]

You're funny.

It has become clear that the majority of the Republican party would rather see the country burn than do anything productive as long as a Democrat is the President.

It seems to me that Obama's idea of compromise is that the Republicans agree with him. The guy is a Chicago-style politician who believes that political opponents are his "enemies" and should be "punished."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riVzMzX4hiE

Bill Clinton was not like that. He made compromises with New Gingrich and too credit for the results. He was one of the most skilled politicians ever to hold the office of POTUS, and Obama would have done to take a few pages from his book. Obama is a skilled electoral politician (i.e., good at running for office) but seems in over his head as an executive. The way he rammed through Obamacare was a disgrace. Ideology aside it was bad legislation and we are going to be paying for it for a long time.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Yup. 56 (and counting) attempts to simply repeal the ACA, while neglecting to pass an actual budget, shows the Republicans are all about compromise.

[LA Ute]

Yup. 56 (and counting) attempts to simply repeal the ACA, while neglecting to pass an actual budget, shows the Republicans are all about compromise.

I'm not going to defend our current D.C. political culture. But those who say Obama isn't part and parcel of it haven't been paying attention.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Of course he is part of the problem. But the Repubs are holding on to some world-record amounts of butt hurt if all they can do is attempt to scrap the plan for 6 years, without offering at least a workable alternative.

And the irony is they would face a generation of defeat at the ballot box had they managed to scrap the ACA all together.

[LA Ute]

Stuart Rothenberg today, in a piece tangentially related to the 2016 election:

Obama Still Channeling George W. Bush (http://blogs.rollcall.com/rothenblog/obama-still-channeling-george-w-bush/?dcz=)

Both men promised they would bring Americans together but instead contributed to the increased polarization and anger in the country.

Obviously, there were many factors at work, and the opposition party in each case played a role in the growing divide. But it is also true that both men ran for the White House promising to overcome the bitterness that had enveloped the nation’s capital — and both failed, giving up almost completely on trying to change the tone during their second terms.

Both Obama and Bush may well be best remembered for their foreign policy blunders and exaggerated claims of success.

Ugh.

[Rocker Ute]

There is currently no viable candidate on the horizon for either side that is going to fix this too.


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[Diehard Ute]

I don't think there's a candidate on either side even interested in fixing it.

Of course not. The people who drive elections are the extremists of the party. And they have no interest in unification or even just cooperation.

The two party system is the problem. And there's not a solution to that in sight.


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[LA Ute]

Desperate Trump Drops Ugly Policy Bomb: Ban All The Muslims Abroadhttp://www.dailywire.com/news/1668/desperate-trump-drops-ugly-policy-bomb-ban-all-ben-shapiro#pq=szg78U

[NorthwestUteFan]

Desperate Trump Drops Ugly Policy Bomb: Ban All The Muslims Abroadhttp://www.dailywire.com/news/1668/desperate-trump-drops-ugly-policy-bomb-ban-all-ben-shapiro#pq=szg78U

JEB spent nearly 100 times as much as Trump on TV ads, and yet he is still getting crushed. How long until people realize that Trump is a moron, incapable of any reasonable depth of thought?

[LA Ute]

JEB spent nearly 100 times as much as Trump on TV ads, and yet he is still getting crushed. How long until people realize that Trump is a moron, incapable of any reasonable depth of thought?

That's how demagoguery works, sadly enough.

[Rocker Ute]

The craziness of Trump is I bet the vast majority of republicans would never vote for him. If you could get it down to someone like Trump and Rubio, Rubio would win in a landslide.

I'd be perplexed by this if I thought any of the candidates could beat Clinton, but they can't.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

That's how demagoguery works, sadly enough.

He is just an utterly vile human being. I can't see the attraction. I have my theories, and they all paint a depressing portrait of modern American society.

Part of me hopes a sudden flood of rationality will overtake the Republicans and a better candidate will rise to the top. But another part of me wants to see a Trump-Hillary debate. That would be the epic smackdown for the ages, and Hill-dawg will win in an historic landslide...and I don't even like Hillary.

[Diehard Ute]

Saw Vince Houriuchi (Brother of Randy) tweet tonight that he now knows what his father went through before he was put in an internment camp in 1942 and he's glad he isn't around to see it.

It's disgusting that even had to be tweeted.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

I'm not certain, and I'm not going to think about it any more, but I suspect that if you want to watch any kind of debate, you may be part of the problem.


Why would you fear an open discussion of the issues facing our society by those people we are choosing to run the nation? Would you prefer they simply made all macro policy decisions behind closed doors, without your knowledge?

[NorthwestUteFan]

I don't think that's what debates are.

That is a compelling counterargument. Thank you.

[LA Ute]

Food for thought regarding Mr. Trump, who is a clown and a demogogue and has no business being POTUS (although I must say that I think the latter about Mr. Obama too).

Progressive and Racist. Woodrow Wilson Wasn't Alone.http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-12-08/woodrow-wilson-wasn-t-the-only-progressive-racist

[LA Ute]

The LDS church has slapped Mr. Trump down. This will give pause to some of his Mormon admirers:

http://fox13now.com/2015/12/08/lds-church-issues-statement-in-response-to-donald-trumps-comments-on-muslims/

[chrisrenrut]

From Governer Gary Herbert:

In 1879 under the direction of President Rutherford B. Hayes, the U.S. Secretary of State William Evarts requested that foreign governments no longer allow Mormons to emigrate to the United States in order to prevent the "large numbers of immigrants [who] come to our shores every year from the various countries of Europe for the avowed purpose of joining the Mormon community at Salt Lake." Utah exists today because foreign countries refused to grant the wishes of a misguided president and his secretary of state.


I am the governor of a state that was settled by religious exiles who withstood persecution after persecution, including an extermination order from another state's governor. In Utah, the First Amendment still matters. That will not change so long as I remain governor.

[LA Ute]

Trump, the Anti-Constitutional Authoritarian — Liberty Lovers, Beware
(http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428208/trump-anti-constitutional-authoritarian)

[GarthUte]

From Governer Gary Herbert:

In 1879 under the direction of President Rutherford B. Hayes, the U.S. Secretary of State William Evarts requested that foreign governments no longer allow Mormons to emigrate to the United States in order to prevent the "large numbers of immigrants [who] come to our shores every year from the various countries of Europe for the avowed purpose of joining the Mormon community at Salt Lake." Utah exists today because foreign countries refused to grant the wishes of a misguided president and his secretary of state.


I am the governor of a state that was settled by religious exiles who withstood persecution after persecution, including an extermination order from another state's governor. In Utah, the First Amendment still matters. That will not change so long as I remain governor.

Dear Leader was wrong when he said this country doesn't have a religious test.

[GarthUte]

Trump, the Anti-Constitutional Authoritarian — Liberty Lovers, Beware
(http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428208/trump-anti-constitutional-authoritarian)

I like Cooke. He's a guy who gets it.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Dear Leader was wrong when he said this country doesn't have a religious test.

That is the truth. If a candidate states that he has no religion or is agnostic or atheist, he will only have a slightly better chance of getting elected than would a convicted rapist.

A Muslim would fare slightly better.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

For the fun of it over lunch today, I decided to play around with some old Japanese Internment Camp photos and turning them into Trump campaign photos. (Too much caffeine, maybe.) Here are a few.

They were super rough jobs, so not need to critique the quality of the photoshopping. I may try and clean them up more to help blend them into the original better.

1712
1713
1714

[NorthwestUteFan]

Trump, the Anti-Constitutional Authoritarian — Liberty Lovers, Beware
(http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428208/trump-anti-constitutional-authoritarian)

There was a news story last night comparing Donald Trump to the French über right-wing fascist party leader Marine Le Pen. She makes many similar statements, and DJT's crazier statements seem to track hers nearly perfectly. His latest 'ban ALL Muslims from entering the country' statements followed her similar statements by only a few days.

This is a dangerous precedent. Le Pen now holds a strong position in the French government due to her party's recent electoral wins (I admit I know nothing of France's government structure). She may be able to push through some very dangerous legislation.

But I still believe (and hold out hope) that DJT can't win a General election in the US and wont rise higher than about 25%-30% of Republican Primary voters, which has to be a significantly lower percentage of the general population. I also have to believe the Republican party might distance themselves from him. But they are in a tough spot, where they will implode as a party if he gains the nomination, but will get their vote split if he runs as an Independent and guarantee a President Hill-Dawg.

If DJT wins the nomination, will the middle-right Republicans who comprise the Base hold their nose and vote for Trump, hold their nose and vote for Hillary, or stay home? Any of the three options could lead to the demise of the Party.

That said, I would almost prefer Trump over Ted Cruz.

[NorthwestUteFan]

[COLOR=#333333]For the fun of it over lunch today, I decided to play around with some old Japanese Internment Camp photos and turning them into Trump campaign photos.


Those are amazing. Nice work!

[U-Ute]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/09/5efc7bddc31ae9bab5790736298d7142.jpg

[LA Ute]

Dissensus, the Spirit of Our Age
"Donald Trump could arise only in an atmosphere that is itself soaked in political derision."
http://www.wsj.com/articles/dissensus-the-spirit-of-our-age-1449533281

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Then there was the day that Trump was attacked by an eagle. Way to go, America!


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[concerned]

Dissensus, the Spirit of Our Age


"Donald Trump could arise only in an atmosphere that is itself soaked in political derision."



http://www.wsj.com/articles/dissensus-the-spirit-of-our-age-1449533281


Is Trump the greatest demagogue since Huey Long? Anybody else close? George Wallace?

[LA Ute]

Is Trump the greatest demagogue since Huey Long? Anybody else close? George Wallace?

I don't think he's in their league. They at least got elected to something.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Trump's campaign HAS to be a practical joke, or at minimum it is a Poe. Maybe he is pranking his advisors and spokespeople by forcing them to answer questions with reluctantly straight faces.

Hopefully he will be more than just a demagogue. He could be an effective (though inadvertent) iconoclast. Perhaps his vocal support for very dangerous and historically damaging ideas will help people see how crazy and un-American those ideas truly are.

[Diehard Ute]

So if you haven't seen the clip below its pretty funny.

The Daily Show went after Trump for being a racist, and for his statements that he would date his daughter if he wasn't married.

Guess which of the two statements he is upset about?

http://on.cc.com/1lwFZjZ


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[LA Ute]

Muslims, the New Mormons
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2015/12/muslims-the-new-mormons/

[Rocker Ute]

Muslims, the New Mormons


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2015/12/muslims-the-new-mormons/

It should be noted that John Turner also fairly recently wrote one of the definitive Brigham Young biographies, "Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet" which is a great read.

[LA Ute]

I love this piece:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428408/donald-trump-populism-corruption-conservatism



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[LA Ute]

Frank Cagle: Trump’s foes must appeal to supporters



What I don't understand about the Republican establishment these days is that they fail to recognize that Trump uses outrageous statements to garner attention, but he taps into issues of real concern to the American people. But if you want to stop Trump, don't attack him; appeal to the people who support him. Offer sensible solutions to problems he has identified, rather than his half-baked, unrealistic rhetoric.
For example, when the Syrian refugee controversy erupted Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz suggested that maybe we could take only Christian refugees from the Middle East. They were excoriated for the idea. President Barack Obama stood in the Oval Office and said America could not have a religious test for admission and it was un-American. He should know better.

The 1965 immigration reform act, which still governs, has specific criteria for the admission of refugees: people fleeing religious persecution. Who is facing more religious persecution than the Christians in Syria and other areas controlled by ISIS? Beheading, buried alive, machine gunned. Any country has the right to decide who can be admitted and who cannot. Until 1965 Third World immigration was prohibited. There are Christian relief agencies in the Middle East that could help vet refugees facing persecution and help them resettle here.

Did Bush double down, make the case and provide an alternative to Trump's bellicosity? No, he just attacked Trump's idea to stop Muslim immigration temporarily, instead of making the issue his own. Trump's plan? How would that work? Offer anybody getting on the plane a ham sandwich and bar anybody who didn't eat it? His half-baked idea is about as practical as his plan to have Mexico pay for the border wall.

I think a Trump presidency would be a disaster. While he talks a good game, he has no practical way to carry out his promises. Like Cas, he will say anything to grab attention, get a headline and get on television. But his success should be a warning to the political establishment. The American people are fed up with political correctness, and if you do not provide sensible solutions to the issues Trump has raised, don't be surprised when he stand on the podium as the GOP nominee.

http://www.knoxnews.com/opinion/columnists/frank-cagle/frank-cagle-trumps-foes-must-appeal-to-supporters-26f33c9e-7cf2-71ed-e053-0100007ffa88-362532971.html?d=mobile

[Rocker Ute]

Trump quite simply is the worst parts of America personified. Materialistic, misogynistic, bigoted, arrogant, loud, a liar, boastful, uninformed, abrasive, confrontational, philandering, uncharitable, ruthless, fake, opportunistic, unethical and vain. Oh and apparently he wants to date his daughter.

If Europeans could concoct a caricature of the ugly American they couldn't do any better than that.

He has zero chance of being elected (although I'm starting to believe he'll get the republican nomination) but he sure is an interesting insight into ourselves.


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[U-Ute]

Trump quite simply is the worst parts of America personified. Materialistic, misogynistic, bigoted, arrogant, loud, a liar, boastful, uninformed, abrasive, confrontational, philandering, uncharitable, ruthless, fake, opportunistic, unethical and vain. Oh and apparently he wants to date his daughter.

No wonder we love him so.

[Applejack]

Trump quite simply is the worst parts of America personified. Materialistic, misogynistic, bigoted, arrogant, loud, a liar, boastful, uninformed, abrasive, confrontational, philandering, uncharitable, ruthless, fake, opportunistic, unethical and vain. Oh and apparently he wants to date his daughter.

If Europeans could concoct a caricature of the ugly American they couldn't do any better than that.

He has zero chance of being elected (although I'm starting to believe he'll get the republican nomination) but he sure is an interesting insight into ourselves.


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Does anyone know a real-life Trump supporter? I'm sure you do as 40% of Republicans like him and some of you folks live in, ahem, republican leaning areas. But in the democratic bubble that is DC, I've never met one.

[Applejack]

My neighbor has a Trump bumper sticker on his car. I haven't asked him about it. I think he'll be happy to vote for whoever gets the party nomination.

Interesting. What does he look like? Is he obsessed with rooting out Shariah law?

[Two Utes]

Does anyone know a real-life Trump supporter? I'm sure you do as 40% of Republicans like him and some of you folks live in, ahem, republican leaning areas. But in the democratic bubble that is DC, I've never met one.


My mother in law

[LA Ute]

Does anyone know a real-life Trump supporter? I'm sure you do as 40% of Republicans like him and some of you folks live in, ahem, republican leaning areas. But in the democratic bubble that is DC, I've never met one.

Nope. I know a lot of people who seem to say to themselves "Yeah!!" when they hear some of his blustery, feisty pronouncements but they seem to realize he can never be elected president. I wonder if a lot of the people whom pollsters consider his supporters fall into that category.

[Rocker Ute]

Does anyone know a real-life Trump supporter? I'm sure you do as 40% of Republicans like him and some of you folks live in, ahem, republican leaning areas. But in the democratic bubble that is DC, I've never met one.

If you took the Republican field and narrowed it down to three I'm pretty sure that Trump would fall below the other two candidates in support pretty quickly. At this point I don't think it even matters which are the other two besides trump.

And for the record as I've said on another site, I'm pretty sure Trump Supporters = Nickleback Fans

[LA Ute]

Just caught Stephen Colbert on The Late Late Show for the first time. He seems to think he's still on Comedy Central. Wow.

I googled "Stephen Colbert ratings" and got this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/11/21/is-stephen-colbert-too-liberal-for-his-own-ratings-good/


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[Sullyute]

For rating purposes he probably should stay neutral on the political issues, but I am of the same political persuasion as him so i think he is great.

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[LA Ute]

For rating purposes he probably should stay neutral on the political issues, but I am of the same political persuasion as him so i think he is great.

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Sure, I'd love his work too if I were of the same persuasion. I just wonder if but appealing to only one side he can develop the viewership he needs in order to stay on the air. I rarely watch late-night talk shows anyway, so I don't really care. I was just intrigued. Guys like Johnny Carson and Jay Leno (and now Fallon and Kimmel) seemed to give it to both sides equally. Then again, Letterman hung on for a long time and it seems like he was always pretty left-leaning.

[SeattleUte]

If you took the Republican field and narrowed it down to three I'm pretty sure that Trump would fall below the other two candidates in support pretty quickly. At this point I don't think it even matters which are the other two besides trump.

And for the record as I've said on another site, I'm pretty sure Trump Supporters = Nickleback Fans

This is demonstrably true, but the press--including the New York Times, which is obsessed with Trump and purports to hate him--isn't going to make this common sense observation and spoil the fun. Trump has made them a lot of eyeballs.

I GUARANTEE our next president will be one of these four: Hillary, Rubio, Jeb, or Cruz. Trump has no chance.

[NorthwestUteFan]

If those are the likely candidates, then everybody needs to work phone banks/pray/campaign/whatever that either Rubicon or Hillary win. The words 'President Ted Cruz' should terrify everybody.

As horrible as he is, I would prefer Trump to Cruz.

(I am sticking with the assumption that Bush has minimal chance to win a National election due solely because of his name).

[LA Ute]

If those are the likely candidates, then everybody needs to work phone banks/pray/campaign/whatever that either Rubicon or Hillary win. The words 'President Ted Cruz' should terrify everybody.

As horrible as he is, I would prefer Trump to Cruz.

(I am sticking with the assumption that Bush has minimal chance to win a National election due solely because of his name).

If Cruz is nominated he'll lose 48 states. He'll carry Utah and Texas.


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[Rocker Ute]

I would take trump over Cruz too.


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[GarthUte]

If those are the likely candidates, then everybody needs to work phone banks/pray/campaign/whatever that either Rubicon or Hillary win. The words 'President Ted Cruz' should terrify everybody.

As horrible as he is, I would prefer Trump to Cruz.

(I am sticking with the assumption that Bush has minimal chance to win a National election due solely because of his name).

I'm not sure why so many are afraid of Cruz being POTUS. He believes that those in power should abide by the US Constitution.

[LA Ute]

I'm not sure why so many are afraid of Cruz being POTUS. He believes that those in power should abide by the US Constitution.

I'd be fine with him as POTUS but I don't think he can get elected. He's a brilliant guy, probably more of an opportunist than the guys I prefer, but he has too many sharp edges. People don't like him.

[Rocker Ute]

Simply put, those who know Ted Cruz personally not only don't like him, they loathe him. I need to find the recent article I read about him but he has a definite pattern in his life thT would support that statement.

LA Ute is too nice when he says he has some rough edges. Our president has a role that includes representing our nation to the international community and having the ability to be a diplomat. Can you imagine Trump or Cruz interacting with other world leaders? Absolute and total disaster. If they can't even interact well with a culture they've spent their life in, what about everywhere else?

Cruz is an opportunist and frankly one of the worst things to ever happen to US politics. It is people like him (but he is certainly not alone) that have largely contributed to the political rancor and inability to compromise on ANYTHING in congress. The left has their guys too, including one in the White House, but I see no reason to continue that.

Sadly I don't see a fix on the horizon.


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[Brian]

Simply put, those who know Ted Cruz personally not only don't like him, they loathe him. I need to find the recent article I read about him but he has a definite pattern in his life thT would support that statement.

LA Ute is too nice when he says he has some rough edges. Our president has a role that includes representing our nation to the international community and having the ability to be a diplomat. Can you imagine Trump or Cruz interacting with other world leaders? Absolute and total disaster. If they can't even interact well with a culture they've spent their life in, what about everywhere else?

Cruz is an opportunist and frankly one of the worst things to ever happen to US politics. It is people like him (but he is certainly not alone) that have largely contributed to the political rancor and inability to compromise on ANYTHING in congress. The left has their guys too, including one in the White House, but I see no reason to continue that.

Sadly I don't see a fix on the horizon.


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This is my biggest issue with these guys as well. You've got to get along to get along. These clowns don't seem to have a shred of diplomacy, which would be a disaster on both the domestic and world stages.

[LA Ute]

Why Cruz has an uphill battle in the general election:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/can-ted-cruz-actually-win/article/2000282/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=20151221_TWS-mag-ted-cruz-general-election-3_facebook.com&utm_content=TWS


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[LA Ute]

Sanders's and Clinton's Fake Middle Class

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-12-30/sanders-and-clinton-s-fake-middle-class

I've always wondered what exactly is the definition of "middle class" when candidates use that term.


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[LA Ute]

Does Donald Want to Be President?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/does-donald-want-to-be-president-1452297031


But even given our benign acceptance of political lying, some lying is irresponsible lying, destructive lying, lying that undermines security and order. Look hard and you might find a few demagogic lies at the foot of any politician, but Mr. Trump’s lies are particularly disturbing.

He tweeted the fantastically false statistic that 81% of murdered white people are murdered by blacks. If true, this sounds like an undeclared race war, but it’s utterly false. The vast majority (82%) of white victims are killed by other whites, according to the FBI.

Mr. Trump also persists in his claim that thousands of Muslims in Jersey City, N.J., cheered the 9/11 attacks. He says he witnessed these demonstrations on television, but there is zero evidence they took place. Mr. Trump already has expressed approval of the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II. New Jersey is a state with the highest percentage of Muslim residents, 3%. Mr. Trump is basically saying large numbers of Americans can be expected to be loyal to our enemies.

These are unfitting lies in a president. Frankly, they also don’t seem the prevarications of somebody seriously seeking the U.S. presidency, though they do seem useful if you are riding a wave and want to keep riding it.

Read the whole thing.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Does Donald Want to Be President?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/does-donald-want-to-be-president-1452297031



Read the whole thing.


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I wonder what will happen if Donald Trump actually wins at New Hampshire and Iowa. Could the Republican Party actually throw him out or beat him any other way? The fact that he has such a huge lead this late in the game should be very disconcerting.

[concerned]

I wonder what will happen if Donald Trump actually wins at New Hampshire and Iowa. Could the Republican Party actually throw him out or beat him any other way? The fact that he has such a huge lead this late in the game should be very disconcerting.

We were talking last night about the increasing possibility that it could be Donald (or Ted) v. Bernie in the general. How would the winner ever govern?

[U-Ute]

Not gonna happen, but it would be a good reminder to everyone that it really doesn't matter as much as we tend to think.

I dunno. The continuous expansion of the power of the executive branch via Executive Orders over the past 20-30 years is a bit disturbing. Of course, if Congress actually did anything, Presidents wouldn't feel like they need to resort to Executive Orders to get things done.

[U-Ute]

Someone else decided to wear a hijab at one of Trump's rally to see what happened. I feel like this is a very even handed description, and I think that some of her comments are insightful as to who Trump's supporters are, where they came from, and why they support Trump.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/i-went-to-donald-trump-rally-in-my-hijab-supporters-arent-just-racist-caricatures


To Trump and his supporters, Asian countries have “dumped” their goods in America and almost bankrupted our country by causing our trade deficit; Mexico won’t keep “illegals” (who are the “source” for Americans’ drugs) on their side of the border; and, of course, Muslims have “always” been fighting us, and come from countries populated by ingrates who are unwilling to pay for the wars that we started on “their” behalf.

But solving our trade deficit isn’t as simple as ending the supply of cheap Asian goods that Americans so happily consume. Mexico is not going to pay us to build us a wall. The rest of the world will not stand by and let the US seize Iraq’s oilfields (and thus control a significant supply of the world’s oil).

Trump’s supporters, though, love him for his outrageous suggestions; it provides them with a sense of empowerment and control. And his lack of specificity allows each person to hear what they want to hear.

The increasing popularity of these types of events reflects the fact that Trump supporters – the people who used to be Tea Partiers, who supported Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin or any one of a number of politicians who’ve used this rhetoric before Trump – aren’t going to go away. Whether Trump wins or loses, his supporters will still be out there, longing for another leader to “make America great again”.

[Diehard Ute]

I dunno. The continuous expansion of the power of the executive branch via Executive Orders over the past 20-30 years is a bit disturbing. Of course, if Congress actually did anything, Presidents wouldn't feel like they need to resort to Executive Orders to get things done.

Orin Hatch would disagree

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160113/65f275dcf0147ca61da681f6866eaf83.jpg


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

orin hatch would disagree

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160113/65f275dcf0147ca61da681f6866eaf83.jpg


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lol.

[LA Ute]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HeWcY5GVlQ

[U-Ute]

I was saying make America great again, and I actually think we can say now, and I really believe this, we're gonna get things coming... we're gonna get Apple to start building their damn computers and things in this country, instead of in other countries.

This guy really will say anything, won't he?

[NorthwestUteFan]

This guy really will say anything, won't he?
I thought he was supposed to be some sort of business genius?

[Rocker Ute]

Sanders with a 30 point lead on Clinton in NH? The best the repubs have got is Trump and Cruz? Utah is the rational conservative state, where Trump is performing the worst? The two rational repub potential candidates of Romney and Huntsman won't step into the race and take it over?

The possibility of a Sanders v Trump election is very real, of which thing I had never supposed.


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[Applejack]

Sanders with a 30 point lead on Clinton in NH? The best the repubs have got is Trump and Cruz? Utah is the rational conservative state, where Trump is performing the worst? The two rational repub potential candidates of Romney and Huntsman won't step into the race and take it over?

The possibility of a Sanders v Trump election is very real, of which thing I had never supposed.


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Stop it@! The chances of Trump v Sanders in the general election are about the same as Colorado football going undefeated in the Pac12 next year.

[Rocker Ute]

Stop it@! The chances of Trump v Sanders in the general election are about the same as Colorado football going undefeated in the Pac12 next year.

I used to believe that too... but now I'm scared.

[LA Ute]

Stop it@! The chances of Trump v Sanders in the general election are about the same as Colorado football going undefeated in the Pac12 next year.

But think of the SNL sketches we could see!

[LA Ute]

‘13 Hours’: It’s Political (http://www.wsj.com/articles/13-hours-its-political-1453335964)
We saw the movie over the weekend. Very high-intensity and with some truly heartbreaking moments, including some compassion for the Libyan people who were sucked into the fighting. I did not see any politics in it, although it was clear from the story as it was told that the people defending the diplomatic compound got almost no help from the US and the whole sorry episode was a mess of bad or inexplicable decisions (or non-decisions) by higher-ups.

[USS Utah]

‘13 Hours’: It’s Political (http://www.wsj.com/articles/13-hours-its-political-1453335964)


We saw the movie over the weekend. Very high-intensity and with some truly heartbreaking moments, including some compassion for the Libyan people who were sucked into the fighting. I did not see any politics in it, although it was clear from the story as it was told that the people defending the diplomatic compound got almost no help from the US and the whole sorry episode was a mess of bad or inexplicable decisions (or non-decisions) by higher-ups.

Read the book it was based on a few weeks ago, and saw the movie last weekend

The book is not about "talking points", or what U.S. government officials knew, said, or did after the attack on the U.S. Special Mission Compound in Benghazi, Libya, on September 11, 2012. The book is not about ongoing controversies, electoral politics, alleged conspiracies or cover-ups. Nor is this book about what happened in hearing rooms of the U.S. Capitol, anterooms of the White House, meeting rooms of the State Department, or green rooms of TV talk shows. The book is about what happened on the ground, in the streets, and on the rooftops of Benghazi, when bullets flew, buildings burned, and mortars rained and when lives were saved, lost, and forever changed.

With the Mitchell Zuckoff's assistance, the members of the CIA Annex security team attempts to record for history, as accurately as possible, what they did, what they saw, and what happened to them -- and to their friends, colleagues, and compatriots that fateful night in Benghazi. Excellent.

There were protests in Cairo and other middle eastern cities on September 11, 2012, reportedly in reaction to a video on You Tube, but Benghazi was quiet. Until night fell, it was just another seemingly typical day in the eastern Libyan city. At 9:02 p.m., a truck marked with police insignia parked outside the main gate of the U.S. Special Mission Compound -- though sometimes referred to as a consulate, the compound was not officially so designated -- the men inside the truck remained inside the vehicle and did not engage the Libyan guards or anyone else from the compound. After forty minutes, the truck pulled away. Was the truck performing some kind of reconnaissance mission? Earlier in the day, another police marked vehicle parked outside the compound, and the officer walked into a building across the street, climbed up a few floors, and took pictures of the compound with a cell phone. The activities of these to police marked vehicles were the only unusual thing that happened that day in Benghazi, that is until a moment after the truck drove away from the compound gate, for that is when shots and an explosion were heard.

That was the start of a long night for the men of the security team assigned to the CIA Annex, a few blocks away from the Special Mission Compound. When word reached the Annex of the attack on the compound, the security team immediately prepared to rush to the rescue. But, sitting in vehicles in the driveway, waiting for the word to go, they instead were told repeatedly to wait while their team leader and the Annex boss tried to coordinate a response with a friendly Libyan militia. Fed up, the security team finally made up their minds to get going, but they were too late to save the U.S. Ambassador to Libya, who was making a visit to Benghazi, and a staff member. The security team returned to the Annex, with those they were able to rescue at the compound, and there they withstood three separate attacks, in which two more men would be killed. Additional security agents arrived from Tripoli after several hours, and the staffers and security team of the Annex were escorted by a Libyan militia to the Benghazi airport. The surviving security team members took off 13 hours after the first shots were fired at the compound.

There is a cultural divide between western and eastern Libya, between Tripoli and Benghazi, a divide little understood by outsiders. In this divide lay the roots of the civil war that toppled Ghaddafi, but also the roots of the attack on the Special Mission Compound. Because the rebellion that toppled a dictator began in Benghazi, some may have thought that good relations with the people of that city was possible, but by the summer of 2012, the honeymoon was over. The compound was fired upon on a few occasions, and an assassination attempt was made on the British ambassador. The British pulled their personnel out of the city, but the U.S. stayed. Additional security had been sent to Benghazi that summer, but it was withdrawn in August. The ambassador requested additional security, but somebody at the State Department decided a few diplomatic security agents was more than adequate. They were badly wrong. After the attack, four State Department employees were placed on paid administrative leave, but all were reinstated and given new jobs -- two later retired voluntarily.

After the attack began, the president ordered a response with whatever was available. There were no troops close enough to reach Benghazi that night -- nobody knew how long the battle would last. The closest support available were the additional security agents in Tripoli, and they did not arrive at the Annex until almost sunrise. The closest air support was four hours away at Aviano AB in Italy, but those aircraft lacked the tanker support to get them to Benghazi and back.

Just before the attack, an intel report was received at the Annex reporting on the possibility of a terrorist attack on a diplomatic post somewhere in the middle east. No specific post was mentioned, there wasn't even a list of possible targets.

The bottom line is that security was inadequate at a diplomatic compound that possibly should have been shut down weeks earlier. Despite the heroic efforts of the Annex security team, four men would pay the ultimate price for that failure.

The movie followed the account given by the book rather closely, though there were still a few Hollywood moments.

[LA Ute]

Read the book it was based on a few weeks ago, and saw the movie last weekend

The book is not about "talking points", or what U.S. government officials knew, said, or did after the attack on the U.S. Special Mission Compound in Benghazi, Libya, on September 11, 2012. The book is not about ongoing controversies, electoral politics, alleged conspiracies or cover-ups. Nor is this book about what happened in hearing rooms of the U.S. Capitol, anterooms of the White House, meeting rooms of the State Department, or green rooms of TV talk shows. The book is about what happened on the ground, in the streets, and on the rooftops of Benghazi, when bullets flew, buildings burned, and mortars rained and when lives were saved, lost, and forever changed.

But the attacks had nothing to do with any anti-Islamic video.

[LA Ute]

Byron York: GOP fear and loathing in New Hampshire (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2581329)
Maybe he really is pulling out voters who don't normally vote. But how many of those voters can there be?


After that conversation, I began to ask everyone I met: Do you know anyone who supports Donald Trump? In more cases than not — actually, in nearly all the cases — the answer was no. I asked one woman Friday night, and she said she hadn’t thought about it. I ran into her the next morning at breakfast, and she said, “That was a good question you asked me last night, and I’ve given it some thought.” And no, she didn’t know any Trump supporters.

Given Trump’s big lead in the polls, if so many politically active Republicans don’t know even one Trump supporter, either the polls are wrong or there is some serious GOP Pauline Kaelism at work in the nation’s first primary state.

An exception: I talked to two party officials, one county and one regional, who said they knew a lot of Trump supporters. “They’re not Republicans,” one told me, explaining at length that the Trump fans she knows are inexplicably devoted to him — unfazed by Trump’s lack of policy specifics or any of his controversial statements. The two officials described having conversations and asking which candidate a voter supports, whereupon the voter quickly glanced left and right, to see if it was OK to talk, and then said, “Trump.” That happens a lot, they told me. . . .

I talked to a Republican political operative who has done a lot of work in New Hampshire. He has done so much work, in fact, that he knows many of the streets throughout the state by heart, and knows which houses display candidates’ political signs at primary time and which don’t.

He described driving down a street on the west side of Manchester, checking out the houses. He noticed Trump signs in front of houses that he knew had never displayed signs before. Seeing that, he began to think that all the talk about Trump appealing to a different kind of voter might be true.

[Ma'ake]

Completely unsubstantiated thought:

If this race boils down to Trump vs Hillary, maybe - just maybe - Jon Huntsman, Jr. becomes the VP candidate with Clinton.

[concerned]

Completely unsubstantiated thought:

If this race boils down to Trump vs Hillary, maybe - just maybe - Jon Huntsman, Jr. becomes the VP candidate with Clinton.


Conventional thinking is she will pick someone young, and most likely Hispanic, to lock up that voting block, especially if the opponent is "build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" Trump. Castro, for example (no, not Fidel or Raul)

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-julian-castro-iowa-clinton-20160125-story.html

[LA Ute]

Best comment I've heard about Trump: He's not challenging political correctness, he's just being a "low-life." For example, calling John McCain a "loser" because he was captured and became a POW, or making fun of a reporter's disability. There's nothing politically incorrect about simple human decency. Trump is not a decent man.

[concerned]

Best comment I've heard about Trump: He's not challenging political correctness, he's just being a "low-life." For example, calling John McCain a "loser" because he was captured and became a POW, or making fun of a reporter's disability. There's nothing politically incorrect about simple human decency. Trump is not a decent man.

It was really interesting to see how appalled McCain's daughter and Nicole Wallace were at Palin endorsing Trump after the things he said about McCain. They really took it personally, as a complete stab in the back. Especially after McCain has always defended Sarah.

[Rocker Ute]

Best comment I've heard about Trump: He's not challenging political correctness, he's just being a "low-life." For example, calling John McCain a "loser" because he was captured and became a POW, or making fun of a reporter's disability. There's nothing politically incorrect about simple human decency. Trump is not a decent man.

I remember my dad telling me when I got voting age of how he determined who he voted for. He basically said he looked at a person's morals and if they aligned with his own, then he started worrying about policies they ascribed to. I don't know how practical that actually is as I think you are bound to be disappointed when it comes to most politicians, but interesting nonetheless.

Another thing he told me once, nothing to do with politics but with a guy who had been cheating on his wife, "If he can't be faithful to the thing that should be nearest and dearest to his heart, why would you expect him to be faithful to you..."

Point being this... I've spent a lot of time being dismissive of Trump not believing he was a viable candidate. I'm frightened to admit I am changing that viewpoint and sadly it is because the Repubs are so bereft of real leadership right now the he somehow, mind-boggling, stands above the rest. But when I look at him I see a philandering, egotistical, greedy, dishonest, misogynistic pile of trash. He is the antithesis of everything I aspire to be, yet surprisingly a remarkable reflection of our own American society in many ways. He's proven what reality TV has proven over and over, America is more interesting in shock value and scandal and have made that somehow laudable attributes. At this point I won't be surprised if he makes it out of the Republican primary, and I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow takes out Clinton. Hats off to Utah for putting Trump at 3rd (although Cruz isn't much better than Trump).

My only hope is that what we aren't seeing is the people who couldn't vote for Trump in good conscience, and I am hoping that is about 70% of that party.

[Diehard Ute]

I remember my dad telling me when I got voting age of how he determined who he voted for. He basically said he looked at a person's morals and if they aligned with his own, then he started worrying about policies they ascribed to. I don't know how practical that actually is as I think you are bound to be disappointed when it comes to most politicians, but interesting nonetheless.

Another thing he told me once, nothing to do with politics but with a guy who had been cheating on his wife, "If he can't be faithful to the thing that should be nearest and dearest to his heart, why would you expect him to be faithful to you..."

Point being this... I've spent a lot of time being dismissive of Trump not believing he was a viable candidate. I'm frightened to admit I am changing that viewpoint and sadly it is because the Repubs are so bereft of real leadership right now the he somehow, mind-boggling, stands above the rest. But when I look at him I see a philandering, egotistical, greedy, dishonest, misogynistic pile of trash. He is the antithesis of everything I aspire to be, yet surprisingly a remarkable reflection of our own American society in many ways. He's proven what reality TV has proven over and over, America is more interesting in shock value and scandal and have made that somehow laudable attributes. At this point I won't be surprised if he makes it out of the Republican primary, and I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow takes out Clinton. Hats off to Utah for putting Trump at 3rd (although Cruz isn't much better than Trump).

My only hope is that what we aren't seeing is the people who couldn't vote for Trump in good conscience, and I am hoping that is about 70% of that party.

Trump became a bigger house hold name via reality TV.

His ability to be a complete ass to people on a TV show garnered him immense fame.




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[U-Ute]

1767

[Rocker Ute]

I heard Trump say, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters..." and I'll be damned if he isn't right. He has made ever fatal political gaffe and lost nothing for it.

[LA Ute]

1768

[LA Ute]

Why H. Clinton's e-mail matters:

http://observer.com/2016/01/why-hillarys-emailgate-matters/

Looks like this was really bad for the USA.

[UtahsMrSports]

If the race comes down to Trump versus either of the leading dems, then I will make a post on facebook and say that I will vote for the first person to like the post as president and the second person to like it as vice president.

[Diehard Ute]

The most powerful country in the world and we can't come up with a decent candidate to lead it.

Politics in this country is beyond broken.

And it's not just on the national level. Locally many representatives won't even respond to emails or phone calls.




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[LA Ute]

The most powerful country in the world and we can't come up with a decent candidate to lead it.

Politics in this country is beyond broken.

And it's not just on the national level. Locally many representatives won't even respond to emails or phone calls.




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Our political class in this country is really awful at the moment.


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[Ma'ake]

Politicians and Political Science have done an amazing job of lowering political discourse to tap into emotion.

When people are stressed, rationality is no match for emotion. The stress hormone cortisol was great when we needed to escape being eaten by a bear, but it is corrosive now that we need to really use our noggins, reason through challenges.

Trump taps into the fear of change and loss of status and "majority identity" of many middle class whites, as does Cruz, who shamelessly appeals to Christians (the same people who believe Mormons and Jews and definitely Muslims deserve less religious freedom than they have).

Sanders likewise taps into anxiety about the future, for the younger generation. The 1% are responsible for all problems.

Thoughtful, reasonable candidates are like fish out of water in this political market.

[LA Ute]

Politicians and Political Science have done an amazing job of lowering political discourse to tap into emotion.

When people are stressed, rationality is no match for emotion. The stress hormone cortisol was great when we needed to escape being eaten by a bear, but it is corrosive now that we need to really use our noggins, reason through challenges.

Trump taps into the fear of change and loss of status and "majority identity" of many middle class whites, as does Cruz, who shamelessly appeals to Christians (the same people who believe Mormons and Jews and definitely Muslims deserve less religious freedom than they have).

Sanders likewise taps into anxiety about the future, for the younger generation. The 1% are responsible for all problems.

Thoughtful, reasonable candidates are like fish out of water in this political market.

It's disturbing to see how susceptible to demagoguery the electorate is this time around. (I think that is a word.)


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[concerned]

It's disturbing to see how susceptible to demagoguery the electorate is this time around. (I think that is a word.)


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No kidding. Trump has said 100 things any one of which would have destroyed any other candidacy in any other year. The 47% comment wouldn't phase Trumpk if he made it. It will make it that much harder for the winner to govern

[LA Ute]

No kidding. Trump has said 100 things any one of which would have destroyed any other candidacy in any other year. The 47% comment wouldn't phase Trumpk if he made it. It will make it that much harder for the winner to govern

The Mussolini comparisons are perhaps a bit overwrought, but entirely apt, if that makes sense.


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[UtahsMrSports]

I am not registered as a member of any political party, and I admittedly don't follow politics too terribly close. That said, the Iowa races today have me just as intrigued and focused as signing day on Wednesday. This is going to be very fun to follow!!

[DrumNFeather]

I am not registered as a member of any political party, and I admittedly don't follow politics too terribly close. That said, the Iowa races today have me just as intrigued and focused as signing day on Wednesday. This is going to be very fun to follow!!

The today show was live from Iowa this morning and featured an cow sculpted from butter. Are we sure we want Iowa going first in the political process here?

[UtahsMrSports]

The today show was live from Iowa this morning and featured an cow sculpted from butter. Are we sure we want Iowa going first in the political process here?

I spent some time in Iowa on my mission. I have always wondered the same thing. As unique of a place as Utah.


I would trade any result in Iowa for landing 2-3 of our on-the-fence recruits.

Agreed 100%

[DrumNFeather]

I spent some time in Iowa on my mission. I have always wondered the same thing. As unique of a place as Utah.



Agreed 100%

Some of the folks interviewed were there for Trump..."He speaks for the people." Which prompted my internal Jerry Seinfeld - "Who ARE THESE PEOPLE?"

[UtahsMrSports]

Some of the folks interviewed were there for Trump..."He speaks for the people." Which prompted my internal Jerry Seinfeld - "Who ARE THESE PEOPLE?"

I always love it when they can track down a person way out on the fringes who is there to support a Dell Schanze-esque candidate..........gotta wonder what makes those folks tick.

[LA Ute]

This doesn't seem like partisan scandal-mongering to me. It looks like a real problem.

http://observer.com/2016/02/breaking-hillary-clinton-put-spies-lives-at-risk/


Last Friday afternoon the State Department’s latest court-mandated release of Hillary Clinton’s emails from when she was Secretary of State caused a new political firestorm. While many more emails (https://foia.state.gov/search/results.aspx) were released by Foggy Bottom, some with redactions due to classified materials they contained, twenty-two emails totaling thirty-seven pages of text were withheld entirely (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/30/us/politics/22-clinton-emails-deemed-too-classified-to-be-made-public.html?_r=0) at the request of the Intelligence Community. Those twenty-two emails, deemed “unclassified” by Ms. Clinton and her staff, were judged to be Top Secret in reality....

Nevertheless, Hillary has upped the ante by demanding (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jan/31/hillary-clinton-seeks-release-of-top-secret-emails/) that the twenty-two Top Secret emails that have been withheld by the State Department be released to the public so Americans can see that they are in fact innocuous, as Ms. Clinton and her defenders maintain. Yet this is pure political theater: she surely knows that the emails are not going to be released on security grounds anytime soon, probably not for several decades, at least....

Not only have these spies had their lives put in serious risk by this, it’s a clear violation of Federal law. The Intelligence Identities Protection Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_Identities_Protection_Act) of 1982, enacted due to the murder of the CIA’s station chief in Athens after his cover was blown by the left-wing media, makes it a Federal crime to divulge the true identity of any covert operative serving U.S. intelligence if that person has not previous been publicly acknowledged to be working for our spy agencies.

People really go to jail for breaking this law. John Kiriakou (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kiriakou), a former CIA officer, recently emerged from two years in prison for unauthorized disclosure of classified information, including exposing the identity of an Agency colleague who was serving under cover.

[Rocker Ute]

This doesn't seem like partisan scandal-mongering to me. It looks like a real problem.

http://observer.com/2016/02/breaking-hillary-clinton-put-spies-lives-at-risk/

Here is something that I don't understand about all of this... throughout all of the time that she was Secretary of State she is using a personal email and nobody sending or receiving emails to her says, "Huh, why is she using hill-n-bill2016@aol.com?" It is just dumbfounding to me. We have a company policy... you use company emails for security reasons not even on the level of what she is dealing with. We can audit anybody and even see if they are sending emails to personal accounts and see the content of those emails immediately.

So it seems this is a big deal but she can't be the only person responsible for this, nor even the most guilty of violation of laws.

[LA Ute]

Here is something that I don't understand about all of this... throughout all of the time that she was Secretary of State she is using a personal email and nobody sending or receiving emails to her says, "Huh, why is she using hill-n-bill2016@aol.com?" It is just dumbfounding to me. We have a company policy... you use company emails for security reasons not even on the level of what she is dealing with. We can audit anybody and even see if they are sending emails to personal accounts and see the content of those emails immediately.

So it seems this is a big deal but she can't be the only person responsible for this, nor even the most guilty of violation of laws.

Clearly, she had plenty of enablers.


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[Rocker Ute]

Clearly, she had plenty of enablers.


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Cruz wins... I guess the Donald is the actual 'loser' . I don't like Cruz either, but it does give me some slight hope for 'Merica.

[LA Ute]

Cruz wins... I guess the Donald is the actual 'loser' . I don't like Cruz either, but it does give me some slight hope for 'Merica.

Rubio is surging!


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[Rocker Ute]

Rubio is surging!


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Rubio almost beat Trump, that would have been something.

[LA Ute]

Trump, so buoyed by the polls, wore his arrogance on his sleeve. He said Iowans were stupid if they didn't vote for him. He called Megyn Kelly a bimbo indirectly and tried to be cute about it by saying, "I would never call her a bimbo, but..." It wasn't cute at all; it was disgusting. He even said he could shoot people and not lose support. That's the language of a Kim Jong-un, not the president of the United States. And then Trump showed his disdain for the entire process by skipping the last debate. His arrogance was his undoing.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/02/why_donald_trump_got_schlonged_in_iowa.html#ixzz3z 1WVfNrb



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[NorthwestUteFan]

For my birthday this year I want a brokered Republican convention. So long as they don't nominate Michael Bloomberg (who I believe would crush even Hillary), i want it to happen just for the laughs.

[USS Utah]

Just thought I would leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-8CmI-mlUs

[U-Ute]

Just thought I would leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-8CmI-mlUs


Says the guy in Washington.

[LA Ute]

Post-Iowa Poll: Rubio Leads Trump, Cruz in Three-Way Race
GOP field tightens overall.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/post-iowa-poll-rubio-leads-trump-cruz-in-three-way-race/article/2000901/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=20160204_TWS-blog-rubio-3-way-race-3_facebook.com&utm_content=TWS

[U-Ute]

Sanders and Trump differ on particulars, though where exactly is not quite obvious. Yes, Trump is against gun control, and Sanders extols it. Sanders wants to pillage the rich, and Trump doesn’t want to be pillaged. Sanders makes a big deal about global warming, and Trump doesn’t seem to take it seriously.

But those are the tweaks and idiosyncrasies in an overarching system on which they both agree: the nation state as the central organizing unit of life itself. They have different priorities on who it should serve and where the state should expand most.

http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/two-flavors-of-tyranny/

[U-Ute]

The GOP race to the bottom, or how GOP Candidates Compete Over Who Will Commit The Most War Crimes Once Elected (https://theintercept.com/2016/02/09/gop-candidates-compete-over-who-will-commit-most-war-crimes-once-elected/)