The Football Scheduling Thread

[LA Ute]

USS Utah made the excellent suggestion that we start this thread. It's for all scheduling comments, even those about whether Utah should schedule BYU. Have at it!

I still don't know why we are playing Northern Illinois.

[DrumNFeather]

Chris Hill's scheduling comments were interesting earlier in the week. I'd like to see them schedule more P5 teams, even if it is the dregs of the P5. Like how about Illinois instead of Northern Illinois.

[UTEopia]

Chris Hill's scheduling comments were interesting earlier in the week. I'd like to see them schedule more P5 teams, even if it is the dregs of the P5. Like how about Illinois instead of Northern Illinois.

How about neither Illinois or Northern Illinois?

Personally, I agree with the KW/Chris Hill scheduling philosophy of scheduling 1 A, 1 B and 1 C list team. Anything more aggressive and I think you are going to over schedule the team and make it more difficult to compete in the PAC 12. How do you define an A, B and C list team is a little trickier. In my mind, an A list team is a team that you have a 50/50 shot or less of beating, a B list team is one that you should beat 7 or 8 out of 10 times and a C list team is one that you will never lose to. Who fits into each category? It would be easy to simply list every P5 team as an A list team, but it probably isn't accurate. Although we are 2-2 against WSU in our 4 games in the PAC 12, so I guess the argument can be made that we would likely do the same against Iowa St. or Vandy or pick the bottom team of the ACC. Is BYU an A list team? I say yes for the time being but understand that others could legitimately argue no. Is every G5 team a B or C list team? Well, probably not Boise.

So why play Fresno St. or Northern Illinois on the road? The easy answer is that it is beneficial for the team to play one game on the road against a B list team before you play a conference game on the road. Road trips are different than home games and the team benefits from having a road trip under their belt before they play a conference road game.

I guess if I had my way, we would play either Utah State or BYU every year and play each 5 times out of 10 years. It would be ideal to get a 3 for 2 from each of them but it will not happen with BYU although it could happen with USU. In the years we play BYU, I would try to schedule either a decent G5 opponent or a lower echelon P5 opponent. In the years we play USU, I would try to schedule an upper echelon P5 team.

[UTEopia]

I still don't know why we are playing Northern Illinois.

Next time you speak to the good doctor ask him. I don't think anyone understands that. If I recall correctly, the news of these games broke a few days after BYU announced it was playing a h/h with Northern Illinois. Maybe Chris Hill took a kickback from Holmoe to also schedule Northern Illinois so that it would make BYU's decision look better.

[sancho]

How do you define an A, B and C list team is a little trickier.

It doesn't matter how we define it. The definitions have already been set:

A = P5, Boise, or BYU (maybe Cincy?)
B = G5
C = FCS

[concerned]

It doesn't matter how we define it. The definitions have already been set:

A = P5, Boise, or BYU (maybe Cincy?)
B = G5
C = FCS


As I lamented the other day, it distresses me to no end that our A game will be BYU for the next 7 years. Why tell Dee Benson that Utah fans are past the rivalry, and then schedule them unbroken for 7 years. Something is going on that we don't know about and it really bums me.

[sancho]

As I lamented the other day, it distresses me to no end that our A game will be BYU for the next 7 years.

Amen. If we have to go ABC (and we don't), then the A game has to rotate among a variety of opponents.

If we really want BYU every year, we have to scrap ABC or just call them the B game.

[FountainOfUte]

I agree that BYU is a quandary. They're more or less an "A" team that you get "B" credit for beating. I'd put Boise State in the same category.

The other day, when Hill was making his mea culpa to the local radio dudes, he said something interesting. He said that given the dynamic of modern recruiting, it's not really any more favorable to play a game in a hot recruiting area than not. Given that, here are some P5 matchups that I'd like to see that are maybe less obvious than the Ohio States, Texases or Alabamas; just interesting matchups that we've not seen, and a few we have, but not since becoming a PAC member. Assume they're all H-&-Hs:
- Iowa
- Arkansas
- Kansas State
- Virginia Tech
- Tennessee
- Wisconsin
- Texas Tech
- Clemson
- Missouri
- Georgia

Here are some G5's I think it would be fun to play H-&-H:
- Navy
- Army
- Air Force
- Wyoming
- Colorado State
- New Mexico
- Houston
- SMU
- Hawaii

And for the record, I'm fine playing USU and BYU H-&-H when we do. As someone said before, it's good to take your team on the road and let them have that experience before we get into PAC-12 road games. I think the two in-state FBS schools are short, easy trips to make for the team to get that experience.

[UtahsMrSports]

Do we have any games scheduled with Utah State in Logan going forward?

[SoCalPat]

How about neither Illinois or Northern Illinois?

Personally, I agree with the KW/Chris Hill scheduling philosophy of scheduling 1 A, 1 B and 1 C list team. Anything more aggressive and I think you are going to over schedule the team and make it more difficult to compete in the PAC 12. How do you define an A, B and C list team is a little trickier. In my mind, an A list team is a team that you have a 50/50 shot or less of beating, a B list team is one that you should beat 7 or 8 out of 10 times and a C list team is one that you will never lose to. Who fits into each category? It would be easy to simply list every P5 team as an A list team, but it probably isn't accurate. Although we are 2-2 against WSU in our 4 games in the PAC 12, so I guess the argument can be made that we would likely do the same against Iowa St. or Vandy or pick the bottom team of the ACC. Is BYU an A list team? I say yes for the time being but understand that others could legitimately argue no. Is every G5 team a B or C list team? Well, probably not Boise.

So why play Fresno St. or Northern Illinois on the road? The easy answer is that it is beneficial for the team to play one game on the road against a B list team before you play a conference game on the road. Road trips are different than home games and the team benefits from having a road trip under their belt before they play a conference road game.

I guess if I had my way, we would play either Utah State or BYU every year and play each 5 times out of 10 years. It would be ideal to get a 3 for 2 from each of them but it will not happen with BYU although it could happen with USU. In the years we play BYU, I would try to schedule either a decent G5 opponent or a lower echelon P5 opponent. In the years we play USU, I would try to schedule an upper echelon P5 team.

It would be bad for Utah to schedule 3-2 with even Utah State. Home team keeps all of the gate and is responsible only for the visiting team's travel expenses. With a stadium twice the size of USU's, we make out much better than we do any other opponent we play. Going 3-2 would mean we have to offer them a guarantee one in every three games, in which case, we should pursue H-H with other regional schools.

The adjectives that could be used to describe an Illinois H-H are nothing but positive. It's a slightly bigger stadium than Utah's, but they draw noticeably less. It's a Big 10 school that can rise up occasionally and make you look better in terms of SOS. Rank the Big 10 schools in order of likelihood of being able to get a H-H from that appeals to fans, Illinois easily ranks in the top 3 (I'd add Iowa and Minnesota in there as well). Let's face it -- Michigan is a huge outlier and only happened because it looked like the Pac-12 and Big 10 were going to have all its teams schedule a crossover game in the non-con.

[FountainOfUte]

Do we have any games scheduled with Utah State in Logan going forward?

No, not currently. In fact, I think there are no games scheduled at all - football or basketball - after this year's fb game.

[tooblue]

Roll satin warriors roll!

[sancho]

Given that, here are some P5 matchups that I'd like to see

I like the list, but I think I'd take any P5 except Wake Forest.



Here are some G5's I think it would be fun to play H-&-H:
- Navy
- Army
- Air Force
- Wyoming
- Colorado State
- New Mexico
- Houston
- SMU
- Hawaii


I'm not sure why teams make this list. I don't want anything to do with a triple option offense, so scratch the academies (although I selfishly wouldn't mind driving down to the academy to see the Utes play - same goes for CSU and Wyoming).

[SoCalPat]

It doesn't matter how we define it. The definitions have already been set:

A = P5, Boise, or BYU (maybe Cincy?)
B = G5
C = FCS

Speaking of Boise, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Michigan State, Cincinnati and Virginia all have H-Hs with the Broncos. That doesn't include series against Pac-12ers Oregon State, Washington and Wazzu. G5 H-H include UTEP, Rice and BYU.

[SoCalPat]

Five teams I would love to see Utah schedule that we have a realistic chance of scheduling

1. Iowa. Great stadium, great gameday presence, potential huge SOS boost, never an SOS killer. Nile Kinnick is the best college football story you've never heard, and the stadium is named after him.

2. Hawaii. Winnable game, appeals to players, we recruit there, gets us a 13th game.

3. Oklahoma State. For purely personal reasons. If I can survive Utah-Wichita State in hoops, I can survive Utah-OSU.

4. UNLV. Rapidly become Southeast California in prep gridiron circles. We should be doing what we can to own Las Vegas.

5. Syracuse. Might be the only P5 we've never played in either football or basketball. Get 'em on the schedule. Again, another choice with personal reasons behind it.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I like all of those options scp. And I will second the great game day atmosphere at Iowa. It is fantastic, and not just at the stadium.

I am beyond pissed that we locked in byu for as many years as we did. That will be our 'A' game in CHill's and KWhitt's calculus, so we won't see a regular season game at a big name team (outside the PAC) during that entire time. Hopefully the next AD isn't as tied to the byu in Provo.

[SoCalPat]

I like all of those options scp. And I will second the great game day atmosphere at Iowa. It is fantastic, and not just at the stadium.

I am beyond pissed that we locked in byu for as many years as we did. That will be our 'A' game in CHill's and KWhitt's calculus, so we won't see a regular season game at a big name team (outside the PAC) during that entire time. Hopefully the next AD isn't as tied to the byu in Provo.

Said it once and I'll say it again. Kyle is Public Enemy No. 1 if you're looking for a scapegoat regarding weak schedules. Hill scheduled aggressively in the non-con when we were in the MWC. But if we have a top 10 SOS, he's not going to lose his job if we go 4-8. Kyle will. Which to me says enough about who's having final say.

Hill's job is tough in that he has two constituents here -- the fans and his HC. Neither one of those sides see eye-to-eye on anything regarding scheduling.

[sancho]

Hill's job is tough in that he has two constituents here -- the fans and his HC. Neither one of those sides see eye-to-eye on anything regarding scheduling.

If that's the case, then it's the fans who are greedy and the coach who is smart. We've already had a top 10 SOS even without good OOC games. It's like complaining that a 5-scoop ice cream sundae with hot fudge and whipped cream is missing a cherry.

It's not clear to me at all that adding tough OOC is good for this program long term. It's only clear that I would love to see those games.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

As I lamented the other day, it distresses me to no end that our A game will be BYU for the next 7 years. Why tell Dee Benson that Utah fans are past the rivalry, and then schedule them unbroken for 7 years. Something is going on that we don't know about and it really bums me.

So the question becomes, is there any chance that we play USU any of those years?

[sancho]

So the question becomes, is there any chance that we play USU any of those years?

I just can't get worked up either way about playing USU. I guess I'm okay with playing them, like I'm okay with playing other MWC teams.

MWC want-to-play power rankings:

1) Boise
2) UNLV
3) CSU
4) Hawaii
5) Wyoming
6) Fresno
7) SDSU
8) UNR
9) UNM
10) USU
11) SJSU
12)AFA

[UTEopia]

As I lamented the other day, it distresses me to no end that our A game will be BYU for the next 7 years. Why tell Dee Benson that Utah fans are past the rivalry, and then schedule them unbroken for 7 years. Something is going on that we don't know about and it really bums me.


Well I don't think Hill told Benson that Utah's fans are past the rivalry, what he said that they were okay not playing it for couple of years to get the Michigan games. I think that is true and I have to believe that the future contracts with BYU have an out of some type for both schools. If it doesn't, that is stupid.

I don't think there is any doubt that most Utah fans would scrap BYU for h/h's with Nebraska, Michigan St, Ohio St., Wisconsin, most of the SEC, Texas, Oklahoma, TCU, Florida St., Miami and maybe a few others, but would not want to do it for a h/h with Texas Tech, Vandy, Kentucky or most of the ACC. The question is how many of the top A list teams are willing to do a h/h? My guess is not many.

[LA Ute]

Well I don't think Hill told Benson that Utah's fans are past the rivalry, what he said that they were okay not playing it for couple of years to get the Michigan games. I think that is true and I have to believe that the future contracts with BYU have an out of some type for both schools. If it doesn't, that is stupid.

I agree. Won't the contracts be public records before too long? I'll be really surprised if there isn't an out. BYU will have one too -- e.g., if that P5 conference invite finally comes.


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[LA Ute]

Ted Miller on Utah's scheduling:

"Utah-BYU is a great rivalry. It won't stop being a great rivalry if the teams don't play every year, though some might insist otherwise.

"My guess is just about every Utah fan would say, "I want to play BYU every year." For one, the Utes have dominated the series of late, which means local gloating.

"BUT if you asked Utah fans, "Would you sacrifice a game with BYU every once and a while if it would mean a home-and-home series with Michigan (or Texas or Ohio State or Georgia, etc.)?" My guess is Utes fans would prefer a marquee nonconference foe, particularly one willing to come to Salt Lake.

"I completely understand Chris Hill's position: He doesn't want to unduly burden his team with a brutal nonconference schedule. Michigan, Utah State and BYU most years would be a certifiably masochistic nonconference slate. It's not just about quality, either. It's about two emotional in-state matchups paired with an A-list game with national ramifications.

"Also, let's face it: Utah has eclipsed BYU in football by joining the Pac-12. The game has become much more of a no-win for Utah. Folks now believe, for the first time in the series, that Utah should beat BYU. That's obviously not pleasant for Hill or coach Kyle Whittingham.

"Keep in mind that the series isn't going to disappear. As Hill noted, the teams will meet again in 2016, '17 and '18 and that he's exchanged a game contract with BYU AD Tom Holmoe for the 2019 and 2020 seasons and that there have been discussions about 2021 and 2022."

http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/89986/mailbag-sec-pac-12-challenge-other-holy-wars




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[tooblue]

Ted Miller on Utah's scheduling:

"Utah-BYU is a great rivalry. It won't stop being a great rivalry if the teams don't play every year, though some might insist otherwise.

"My guess is just about every Utah fan would say, "I want to play BYU every year." For one, the Utes have dominated the series of late, which means local gloating.

"BUT if you asked Utah fans, "Would you sacrifice a game with BYU every once and a while if it would mean a home-and-home series with Michigan (or Texas or Ohio State or Georgia, etc.)?" My guess is Utes fans would prefer a marquee nonconference foe, particularly one willing to come to Salt Lake.

"I completely understand Chris Hill's position: He doesn't want to unduly burden his team with a brutal nonconference schedule. Michigan, Utah State and BYU most years would be a certifiably masochistic nonconference slate. It's not just about quality, either. It's about two emotional in-state matchups paired with an A-list game with national ramifications.

"Also, let's face it: Utah has eclipsed BYU in football by joining the Pac-12. The game has become much more of a no-win for Utah. Folks now believe, for the first time in the series, that Utah should beat BYU. That's obviously not pleasant for Hill or coach Kyle Whittingham.

"Keep in mind that the series isn't going to disappear. As Hill noted, the teams will meet again in 2016, '17 and '18 and that he's exchanged a game contract with BYU AD Tom Holmoe for the 2019 and 2020 seasons and that there have been discussions about 2021 and 2022."

http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/89986/mailbag-sec-pac-12-challenge-other-holy-wars




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All the above speaks to is: fear. Nothing else. So, man up Utah. Play BYU and USU, or don't without making excuses or fibbing about the reasons. That would be the truest measure of whether or not Utah has eclipsed anyone.

[NorthwestUteFan]

All the above speaks to is: fear. Nothing else. So, man up Utah. Play BYU and USU, or don't without making excuses or fibbing about the reasons. That would be the truest measure of whether or not Utah has eclipsed anyone.

Utah will go 6-1 vs byu in the 2016-2022 stretch. Nobody is scared of playing that game. I think our conference schedule is amazing, but the OOC slate is boring as hell.

I think Pat is right. KWhitt will veto any OOC schedule where he risks going worse than 3-0 (or 2-1 in rare years).

On the other hand, maybe they will expect byu will become a 'B' team and they can work out games with REAL 'A' grade teams...

[UtahsMrSports]

Its so adorable that a fan of a team who is going to be battling the Wagner Seahawks is telling another team to man up. Awesome. Never, ever change, Byu keyboard warrior, never change.

[SoCalPat]

Its so adorable that a fan of a team who is going to be battling the Wagner Seahawks is telling another team to man up. Awesome. Never, ever change, Byu keyboard warrior, never change.

We all play FCS teams. What point are you trying to make here?

[UtahsMrSports]

We all play FCS teams. What point are you trying to make here?

Lol. Well, the laugh is on me now.....live it up, tooblue, my own guy sabotaged my dig.....

Shoe on the other foot.....BYU has a big name coming to town, utah state and a weak fish opponent......do they man up and drop the fish to play us? Exactly.....

[SoCalPat]

Lol. Well, the laugh is on me now.....live it up, tooblue, my own guy sabotaged my dig.....

Shoe on the other foot.....BYU has a big name coming to town, utah state and a weak fish opponent......do they man up and drop the fish to play us? Exactly.....

Sorry. Nothing personal.

I think Wagner is an especially bad example for Utes fans to use because it's a game BYU was forced to take on in order to get Missouri in a rare P5 scheduling arrangement that favored BYU -- neutral site at Arrowhead next year, with Missouri coming to Provo in 2020. Who wouldn't want Utah to play Wagner if it meant landing a P5 H-N non-con series?

[DrumNFeather]

I wonder if Hill/KW will talk themselves into other "name" games, so long as the game with BYU (under the new agreements) is the season opener. I could see a scenario play out where you play BYU in week 1, an Idaho St. in week 2, have an early bye in week 3 and then turn around and play an Iowa or a Northwestern in week 4 before opening conference play. I'd love to start having Big 10 teams on our schedule.

[SoCalPat]

I wonder if Hill/KW will talk themselves into other "name" games, so long as the game with BYU (under the new agreements) is the season opener. I could see a scenario play out where you play BYU in week 1, an Idaho St. in week 2, have an early bye in week 3 and then turn around and play an Iowa or a Northwestern in week 4 before opening conference play. I'd love to start having Big 10 teams on our schedule.

I don't know if Kyle has a preference for when he likes the bye week. In four years of Pac-12 play, we've had two before our first league game (lost vs. Washington in 2011, won at Michigan in 2014). Your scenario allows for 10 uninterrupted games vs. P5 teams. We had such a scenario last year, but I'm not sure if that's ideal.

Correction: We played USC in Week 2 in 2011, so only once have we had our bye game before the start of league play.

[UtahsMrSports]

Sorry. Nothing personal.

I think Wagner is an especially bad example for Utes fans to use because it's a game BYU was forced to take on in order to get Missouri in a rare P5 scheduling arrangement that favored BYU -- neutral site at Arrowhead next year, with Missouri coming to Provo in 2020. Who wouldn't want Utah to play Wagner if it meant landing a P5 H-N non-con series?

I know, it was a poorly worded jab.

[Rocker Ute]

All the above speaks to is: fear. Nothing else. So, man up Utah. Play BYU and USU, or don't without making excuses or fibbing about the reasons. That would be the truest measure of whether or not Utah has eclipsed anyone.

I don't think Ted Miller is afraid to play BYU in football.


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

2019 and 2020 officially in the books. First games will definitely be interesting. The media build up is going to be more like a presidential campaign.

https://twitter.com/utahathletics/status/644224387999211520

[UtahsMrSports]

2019 and 2020 officially in the books. First games will definitely be interesting. The media build up is going to be more like a presidential campaign.

https://twitter.com/utahathletics/status/644224387999211520

I know some will disagree with me, but I hate having that game first. I mean, yeah, it will make the anticipation greater, but we can't seem to get the emotion back up after taht game. We always seem to have a dud or two after.

[LA Ute]

I know some will disagree with me, but I hate having that game first. I mean, yeah, it will make the anticipation greater, but we can't seem to get the emotion back up after taht game. We always seem to have a dud or two after.

But it will be terrific for the sports media!