Holiday Destinations 2015 - 2016 Bowl Games

[Mormon Red Death]

I wrote in another thread about this scenario that while possible would be highly unlikely:

How about this scenario. Mich st loses to Iowa. Stanford beats usc and makes the playoff. Rose Bowl has to choose between 3 loss Oregon (rematch with Mich st) 5 loss usc, 4 loss wash st or Utah.


Here is what would have to happen:
Stanford beat USC convincingly
Mich st lose to Iowa
Either Clemson or Bama or both lose

Stanford is ranked 9 right now. they just beat 6 and 7 lost yesterday. 8 is ohio state but does not play again. 5 is Mich st and 4 is Iowa. Beat USC and hope Unc or Florida provide an upset.

Lets say that unlikely scenario doesnt happen but Stanford still beats USC. That means they go to Rose. Oregon is probably going Fiesta.

Alamo chooses between Utah, USC, Wazzu & UCLA (all within one conference of one another) Lets say they take USC
Holiday chooses between Utah Wazzu and UCLA (probably UCLA)
Foster Farms chooses between Utah and Wazzu (probably Utah)
Sun Bowl - gets Wazzu

If USC beats stanford. Then assume Stanford goes to Fiesta,
Alamo chooses between Utah, Wazzu and Oreggon Oregon (Cant pick UCLA above Oregon)
Holiday chooses between Utah Wazzu and UCLA (probably UCLA)
Foster Farms chooses between Utah and Wazzu (probably Utah)
Sun Bowl - gets Wazzu

My prediction.. Foster Farms vs Indiana

[GarthUte]

Some of our acquaintances who cheer for the BYU are convinced that there will be a Utah/BYU matchup in Vegas.

[GarthUte]

The one guy in my ward who talks to me about BYU has been dreaming about it all season. He's certain that Espn will arrange it. He's going to be very disappointed if it doesn't happen.

Here's to his being disappointed.

[LA Ute]

GarthUte, it's good to see you here!


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[LA Ute]

Wilner on Twitter thinks wsu gets picked ahead of Utah.

The argument for them is that they're more exciting to watch.


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[Ma'ake]

Vegas has the #6 pick, and we have the 5th best record.

For us it's Holiday in SD, Foster Farm in SF/Santa Clara, or Sun Bowl in El Paso.

Unless there is some horse trading between bowls to get Vegas for Utah so we can get more fans there, it will be California or El Paso.

I know it's a haul for Utes, but the Sun Bowl was the 3rd best bowl we've been to, in my opinion. The people in El Paso are justified in being proud of that event, they do a *great* job of hosting the game and related events, people stream in from all around to see it, CBS has been televising it forever... it's much better than LV, or Poinsettia, or Emerald (in AT&T Park, any way). Put it another way, the payout is $4M.

[hostile]

Vegas has the #6 pick, and we have the 5th best record.

For us it's Holiday in SD, Foster Farm in SF/Santa Clara, or Sun Bowl in El Paso.

Unless there is some horse trading between bowls to get Vegas for Utah so we can get more fans there, it will be California or El Paso.

I know it's a haul for Utes, but the Sun Bowl was the 3rd best bowl we've been to, in my opinion. The people in El Paso are justified in being proud of that event, they do a *great* job of hosting the game and related events, people stream in from all around to see it, CBS has been televising it forever... it's much better than LV, or Poinsettia, or Emerald (in AT&T Park, any way). Put it another way, the payout is $4M.

i started looking at plane fares from slc to El Paso. $500+ Looks like only American flies there from here. ☹️

[Ma'ake]

i started looking at plane fares from slc to El Paso. $500+ Looks like only American flies there from here. ☹️

Last time we flew into Albuquerque, which is an easy 3 hour drive, and if you like Breaking Bad, all kinds of sites and vistas.

[LA Ute]

i started looking at plane fares from slc to El Paso. $500+ Looks like only American flies there from here. ☹️

Maybe some enterprising travel agent can put together some charters.


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[LA Ute]

Last time we flew into Albuquerque, which is an easy 3 hour drive, and if you like Breaking Bad, all kinds of sites and vistas.

True. Southwest flies into Albuquerque.


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[hostile]

Last time we flew into Albuquerque, which is an easy 3 hour drive, and if you like Breaking Bad, all kinds of sites and vistas.
Not a bad idea. Thanks.

[UBlender]

From what I've read (which is mostly just off of twitter and utezone), Utah is very unlikely to fall past the Sun Bowl. While Alamo, Holiday and Foster Farms all have some flexibility in who they can take (they can take teams in any order but can't take a team that was more than a game worse in conference than the best available team), the Sun Bowl is required to take the best remaining team. I think the order looks like this:
1. Stanford
2. USC
3. Oregon
4. Utah
5. Wazzu
6. UCLA

Utah and Washington State have identical conference records which put them in a tie for 4th, but Utah holds the tiebreaker by virtue of better overall record and higher CFP ranking. The only way I can see for Utah to drop to Vegas is if some bowl loves UCLA (could happen--brand name, marketable players) and nobody wants USC (seems very unlikely). Here's how it would have to work:

1. Stanford beats USC (would probably have to be pretty convincing)
2. Stanford is left out of playoff (this is likely in any case)
3. Stanford to Rose Bowl
4. Oregon to Alamo Bowl (lots of speculation that Alamo loves Oregon)
5. UCLA/Wazzu to Holiday Bowl (speculation that Holiday may like Wazzu because of its offense and the novelty of them being good will bring a lot of fans, UCLA seems like a bad fit that would sell some tickets but wouldn't do anything for local hotels, USC played here last year so they may not want them again)
6. UCLA/Wazzu to Foster Farms Bowl (speculation that Foster Farms wouldn't want to bring USC back to Santa Clara after they've just played there in the PAC 12 CCG)
7. Sun Bowl would then have to take USC has the top remaining PAC 12 team (winning the tiebreaker over Utah based on head to head/division win)
8. Please Chris Hill do the right thing and decline the Vegas Bowl (there is a clause that allows teams to opt out from back-to-back appearances in the same bowl) as there is no upside to Utah going to Vegas again and playing in the Cactus Bowl against a Big 12 opponent would be much more fun and interesting

So that's the one scenario. I just don't see USC becoming so unattractive that it drops so far. In fact, I think it is more likely that USC beats Stanford, goes to the Rose while Stanford goes to the Fiesta and then there is no possible scenario for Utah to drop beyond the Sun Bowl.

My prediction:
Rose-Stanford
Alamo-Oregon
Holiday-Wazzu
Foster Farms-Utah
Sun-USC
Vegas-UCLA
Cactus-ASU

Holiday, Foster Farms and Sun could all shuffle. I don't see UCLA being attractive enough to jump up above USC, Wazzu or Utah for either of the California bowls and the Sun can't take them ahead of any of those teams.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I read there's also an outside chance at Oregon going to the Fiesta bowl. What are the rules for NY6 selections?

Looking very unlikely, but outside hopes are still around. I've been told that if I want to book travel to San Antonio it would be 99.8% safe.

[Applejack]

Well, San Antone is nicer than Tempe anyway.

:confused: Really?

[Mormon Red Death]

From what I've read (which is mostly just off of twitter and utezone), Utah is very unlikely to fall past the Sun Bowl. While Alamo, Holiday and Foster Farms all have some flexibility in who they can take (they can take teams in any order but can't take a team that was more than a game worse in conference than the best available team), the Sun Bowl is required to take the best remaining team. I think the order looks like this:
1. Stanford
2. USC
3. Oregon
4. Utah
5. Wazzu
6. UCLA

Utah and Washington State have identical conference records which put them in a tie for 4th, but Utah holds the tiebreaker by virtue of better overall record and higher CFP ranking. The only way I can see for Utah to drop to Vegas is if some bowl loves UCLA (could happen--brand name, marketable players) and nobody wants USC (seems very unlikely). Here's how it would have to work:

1. Stanford beats USC (would probably have to be pretty convincing)
2. Stanford is left out of playoff (this is likely in any case)
3. Stanford to Rose Bowl
4. Oregon to Alamo Bowl (lots of speculation that Alamo loves Oregon)
5. UCLA/Wazzu to Holiday Bowl (speculation that Holiday may like Wazzu because of its offense and the novelty of them being good will bring a lot of fans, UCLA seems like a bad fit that would sell some tickets but wouldn't do anything for local hotels, USC played here last year so they may not want them again)
6. UCLA/Wazzu to Foster Farms Bowl (speculation that Foster Farms wouldn't want to bring USC back to Santa Clara after they've just played there in the PAC 12 CCG)
7. Sun Bowl would then have to take USC has the top remaining PAC 12 team (winning the tiebreaker over Utah based on head to head/division win)
8. Please Chris Hill do the right thing and decline the Vegas Bowl (there is a clause that allows teams to opt out from back-to-back appearances in the same bowl) as there is no upside to Utah going to Vegas again and playing in the Cactus Bowl against a Big 12 opponent would be much more fun and interesting

So that's the one scenario. I just don't see USC becoming so unattractive that it drops so far. In fact, I think it is more likely that USC beats Stanford, goes to the Rose while Stanford goes to the Fiesta and then there is no possible scenario for Utah to drop beyond the Sun Bowl.

My prediction:
Rose-Stanford
Alamo-Oregon
Holiday-Wazzu
Foster Farms-Utah
Sun-USC
Vegas-UCLA
Cactus-ASU

Holiday, Foster Farms and Sun could all shuffle. I don't see UCLA being attractive enough to jump up above USC, Wazzu or Utah for either of the California bowls and the Sun can't take them ahead of any of those teams.
You are missing that Oregon has a good shot at a NY 6 bowl. That changes the structure.

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[UBlender]

You are missing that Oregon has a good shot at a NY 6 bowl. That changes the structure.

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Well, I was mainly locking in on worst case scenarios, basically trying to show that Utah vs BYU in Vegas is only a remote possibility. There are several scenarios that can improve things and bump Utah up (Stanford making the playoff, USC or Oregon making the NY6, etc).

[SoCalPat]

I really want the Holiday Bowl. We never played in it when we were in the WAC/MWC and we'd likely get a name Big 10 opponent that's whippable.

Vegas would be OK so long as it's not BYU. I don't have anything against playing BYU -- I'm not in that crowd -- but we do play them in 9 months. I think the Veg has no choice but to take that into consideration.

Foster Farms vs. Indiana? Quadruple meh. I'd much rather have the Sun Bowl, even if it's against Pittsburgh, which Stuart Mandel at Foxsports currently has projected.

[concerned]

I really want the Holiday Bowl. We never played in it when we were in the WAC/MWC and we'd likely get a name Big 10 opponent that's whippable.

Vegas would be OK so long as it's not BYU. I don't have anything against playing BYU -- I'm not in that crowd -- but we do play them in 9 months. I think the Veg has no choice but to take that into consideration.

Foster Farms vs. Indiana? Quadruple meh. I'd much rather have the Sun Bowl, even if it's against Pittsburgh, which Stuart Mandel at Foxsports currently has projected.

B/c we played in Vegas last year, we can opt out, I have read. Would C Hill play that card? I suppose it depends on the alternative. I would hope so.

[SoCalPat]

B/c we played in Vegas last year, we can opt out, I have read. Would C Hill play that card? I suppose it depends on the alternative. I would hope so.

I think Chris' hands are tied here. Opting out likely gives us an easier opponent, in a more distant locale, than what we would face in BYU. You can bet if we got any other MWC team, even Air Force, that we wouldn't opt out. Why would we opt out of playing BYU? Yes, you could cite playing again in 9 months, but if you play BYU in a bowl, that 2-year break doesn't look so egregious anymore. Also, a lot of the reasons fans put forth for not playing BYU simply don't apply here. There's no post-BYU letdown to worry about, no injuries that compromise us going forward, no playing in Provo, etc.

I really want the Holiday Bowl. I really hope we're campaigning for it behind the scenes. Smart athletic departments do that kind of thing. We would easily bring 25,000 fans to that game.

[concerned]

Stewart mandel projects us to the Sun Bowl, and USC to Vegas, for a varierty of reasons (including the fact that they completely offended the Sun Bowl last time they were there.)

However, I think there is a pretty good likelihood that USC will beat Stanford. That would rearrange everything.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/bowl-projections-2015-week-14-alabama-oklahoma-clemson-michigan-state-playoff-120115

[concerned]

Why do you think this? Stanford looks like the clear best team in the conference to me. If it happens, we have to hope that a 3 loss Stanford could still sneak into the Fiesta bowl over teams like Baylor.

Just because USC has been playing well, destroyed UCLA, and Stanford gave up a lot of points and almost lost to ND. Stanford could have a let down after that game. FWIW.

[Jarid in Cedar]

If the alternative is a P5 opponent, I think he could get away with it since we are about to play BYU. It would be fun to read media reactions.

I keep reading bowl projections, and I have to remind myself that these people spend an hour thinking about who would be selected for NY6 bowls and then a total of 3 minutes filling in the rest of the slots. How hard have they thought about who the holiday, foster farms, or sun bowls would pick out of Utah, WSU, UCLA, USC?

Worst case scenario for Utah:

Rose: Stanford
Alamo: Oregon
Holiday: WSU/USC
Foster Farms: USC/WSU
Sun: UCLA picked over Utah
Vegas; Utah

Best case is if we have 2 NY6, which could be a playoff + Rose or Rose+Fiesta:

Playoff: Stanford
Rose: Oregon
Alamo: Utah/USC/WSU
Holiday: Utah/USC/WSU
FF: Utah/USC/WSU
Sun: UCLA
Vegas: ASU?UW?Zona?Cal?

The Sun Bowl cannot pick UCLA ahead of us, because we are ahead of then in the standings. The Sun, Vegas, and Cactus bowls must follow conference standings

[Old Standing ute]

Is the Fiesta Bowl locked in to certain conferences?

if not & Oregon & Ohio St both not chosen for Rose (Iowa vs. Stanford??); then that would be a Big TV draw.

[UBlender]

I'm confused then. What is the scenario in which we go Vegas? I thought the Sun and Vegas could go +/- 1 in the standings.

The Alamo, Holiday and Foster Farms can go +/-1 in the standings. The Sun, Vegas and Cactus cannot do that. The only scenario that puts Utah in Vegas is if Holiday or Foster Farms get a major boner for UCLA and pass on USC. Wazzu also has to be chosen before USC. The Sun would have to take USC over Utah by virtue of the tiebreaker. Otherwise, Utah will be gone before then.

Several of the SLC media types have contacted bowl officials. Nobody commits to anything but it sounds like the feeling is Utah will be selected even before the Sun Bowl. Foster Farms is my guess.

[concerned]

Is the Fiesta Bowl locked in to certain conferences?

if not & Oregon & Ohio St both not chosen for Rose (Iowa vs. Stanford??); then that would be a Big TV draw.

I keep reading OSU v. ND in the Fiesta

[SoCalPat]

Why do you think this? Stanford looks like the clear best team in the conference to me. If it happens, we have to hope that a 3 loss Stanford could still sneak into the Fiesta bowl over teams like Baylor.

Notre Dame is almost certainly Fiesta-bound (it's only other option is the Peach), and as a result, Stanford is a lock to be shut out of the Fiesta. It's Rose or Alamo for the Cardinal.

[SoCalPat]

Is the Fiesta Bowl locked in to certain conferences?

if not & Oregon & Ohio St both not chosen for Rose (Iowa vs. Stanford??); then that would be a Big TV draw.

No. It will pick from the at-large pool, and after having Boise State last year, will likely not have to take the G5 rep this year. Ohio State-Notre Dame seems like a very real possibility.

[concerned]

Notre Dame ruins a lot of stuff for the Pac-12. If not for the Irish, we would have an annual Pac-12/Big10 challenge built into our OOC schedule. Now this. Stupid Irish. Ruin schedules like a champion today.

It would have died anyway when the Big 10 expanded to 14.

[U-Ute]

Notre Dame ruins a lot of stuff for the Pac-12. If not for the Irish, we would have an annual Pac-12/Big10 challenge built into our OOC schedule. Now this. Stupid Irish. Ruin schedules like a champion today.

See. Now there's a good reason to hate a school.

[Scratch]

The NY6 bowls don't choose teams, do they? I think the committee chooses them? Or does the committee choose who gets in, and then the bowls with at-large spots take turns selecting the approved schools?

[UTEopia]

If the alternative is a P5 opponent, I think he could get away with it since we are about to play BYU. It would be fun to read media reactions.

I keep reading bowl projections, and I have to remind myself that these people spend an hour thinking about who would be selected for NY6 bowls and then a total of 3 minutes filling in the rest of the slots. How hard have they thought about who the holiday, foster farms, or sun bowls would pick out of Utah, WSU, UCLA, USC?

Worst case scenario for Utah:

Rose: Stanford
Alamo: Oregon
Holiday: WSU/USC
Foster Farms: USC/WSU
Sun: UCLA picked over Utah
Vegas; Utah

Best case is if we have 2 NY6, which could be a playoff + Rose or Rose+Fiesta:

Playoff: Stanford
Rose: Oregon
Alamo: Utah/USC/WSU
Holiday: Utah/USC/WSU
FF: Utah/USC/WSU
Sun: UCLA
Vegas: ASU?UW?Zona?Cal?


Sun cannot pick UCLA over Utah because unlike Alamo, Holiday and FF, they must pick the school with the best conference record.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Why do you think this? Stanford looks like the clear best team in the conference to me. If it happens, we have to hope that a 3 loss Stanford could still sneak into the Fiesta bowl over teams like Baylor.

Yeah, the way they handled Oregon was a thing of beauty. :)

[Ma'ake]

A short detour to crazyland: if we ended up in Vegas vs BYU, the upside would be we could beat BYU yet again, then beat them again next September. The downsides are too numerous to quantify, but the last two years have been really *nice*, largely because they've not been on the schedule.

Utah-BYU in Vegas would be like your intolerable distant uncle showing up to a banquet where you're getting an award, glad-handing everyone in the crowd and shamelessly making his pitch to anyone who will listen for USANA / AmWay / whatever.

[SoCalPat]

The NY6 bowls don't choose teams, do they? I think the committee chooses them? Or does the committee choose who gets in, and then the bowls with at-large spots take turns selecting the approved schools?

The latter.

[UtahsMrSports]

Folks at ESPN are saying that BYU to Vegas is all but done, and as a result, the Foster Farms bowl will almost certainly pick UCLA. If true, how does this impact us?

[concerned]

Folks at ESPN are saying that BYU to Vegas is all but done, and as a result, the Foster Farms bowl will almost certainly pick UCLA. If true, how does this impact us?


Sun Bowl

[UBlender]

Folks at ESPN are saying that BYU to Vegas is all but done, and as a result, the Foster Farms bowl will almost certainly pick UCLA. If true, how does this impact us?

That would be bad for us as it makes the Sun Bowl choose between us and USC. I previously thought that the Sun would be bound to USC in that situation due to them having a tiebreaker, but as I read more projections I'm unsure as to whether they are bound by tiebreakers or they can choose between two "tied" schools. If it's tie breakers then Utah > WSU (better overall record, higher CFP ranking) but USC > Utah (head to head). If the Sun Bowl can choose then I have no idea which way they would go, but do remember hearing/reading something about there being some bad blood between USC and the Sun Bowl from last time they were there.

[DrumNFeather]

Why does BYU to Vegas imply UCLA to FF?

They want to avoid a rematch from earlier in the year.

[UtahsMrSports]

They want to avoid a rematch from earlier in the year.

The part I dont get is why it kicks UCLA up. I mean, what obligation does the FF bowl have to Vegas? If I get fourth pick, the bowl game picking sixth can go pound sand; im picking who I want.

[Scratch]

I'm hearing through the athletic department that right now their expectation is Vegas, but that can change. Here is what they expect if Stanford wins and Oregon doesn't crack the NY6:

Rose - Stanford
Alamo - Oregon
Holiday - WSU
FF - UCLA
Sun - USC
Vegas - Utah

[UtahsMrSports]

I'm hearing through the athletic department that right now their expectation is Vegas, but that can change. Here is what they expect if Stanford wins and Oregon doesn't crack the NY6:

Rose - Stanford
Alamo - Oregon
Holiday - WSU
FF - UCLA
Sun - USC
Vegas - Utah

Ugh...........................

[LA Ute]

Ugh...........................

What a downer.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I'm hearing through the athletic department that right now their expectation is Vegas, but that can change. Here is what they expect if Stanford wins and Oregon doesn't crack the NY6:

Rose - Stanford
Alamo - Oregon
Holiday - WSU
FF - UCLA
Sun - USC
Vegas - Utah


Ugh...........................


What a downer.

I don't get some of you guys. I for one relish the chance to kick BYU in the teeth one more time. What a better way to send them into the off season.

Besides, if we are truly separating ourselves from them, there is only one way to prove it, and that is to play, win, and win big.

Would I rather see us in the Holiday our Foster Farms bowl? Sure, but beating BYU would be a perfectly fine consolation prize.

[Applejack]

I don't get some of you guys. I for one relish the chance to kick BYU in the teeth one more time. What a better way to send them into the off season.

Besides, if we are truly separating ourselves from them, there is only one way to prove it, and that is to play, win, and win big.

Would I rather see us in the Holiday our Foster Farms bowl? Sure, but beating BYU would be a perfectly fine consolation prize.

:rave:

(For me, a BYU tilt is the ultimate prize.)

[NorthwestUteFan]

:rave:

(For me, a BYU tilt is the ultimate prize.)

Our Defense is monstrous, but what about our dinged-up Offense leads anybody to believe that we would actually win this game convincingly? (Or even ugly?)

[NorthwestUteFan]

So if we can only manage to score 14 points then we will win?

We all need you to cheer for Stanford this weekend.

[DrumNFeather]

BYU has played against 3 good defenses this season: UCLA, Michigan, and Missouri. They scored a total of 40 points in those 3 games. We might be able to win without scoring too much. I don't think we have a blow out win in us, but I also didn't think we could do that to CSU last year.
Kyle with a few weeks to prepare and guys like Dimick getting healthy...yeah, we would be fine.

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[chrisrenrut]

Kyle with a few weeks to prepare and guys like Dimick getting healthy...yeah, we would be fine.

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Is there a possibility that Covey might play? I know Booker is done, but didn't keep track of Covey's status.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Is there a possibility that Covey might play? I know Booker is done, but didn't keep track of Covey's status.

I remember seeing that it was a high ankle sprain. So I guess that makes it anyone's guess.

I'd like to think that our front seven would just chew Mangum up.

[Ma'ake]

I'd take the Sun, FF or Holiday over Vegas, but if we had to play BYU, that would be the tonic for getting our passing game going.

Besides being motivated to show better than they have, our WRs would be amped to play BYU, and even if they don't run great routes, they're faster than BYU's DBs. Our OL is the strength of our offense, and I'd bet on Travis wanting to go out on a high note.

The conversation on the broadcast would be about how we got a massive upgrade to the PAC-12 and BYU has been essentially pleading to get into a P5 conference, and the Big-12's success this year closes that door for a few more years.

All while we would be dismembering them on the field.

Last year's CSU won 10 games before the bowl game, and while I think BYU is better than CSU was, there's an obvious and growing talent difference that good coaches know how to exploit.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Cheer for Stanford and UNC? Worst weekend ever.

Step up and take one for the team.

Besides, if we go to the Veg bowl you won't have time to be internally conflicted over the Utah-Duke game in MSG.

[hostile]

I remember seeing that it was a high ankle sprain. So I guess that makes it anyone's guess.

I'd like to think that our front seven would just chew Mangum up.
8-12 week recovery for high ankle sprain.

[LA Ute]

Covey is done.

Having thought it over, I'd love to have a chance to demolish BYU. I'd just rather play a P5 opponent.


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[Diehard Ute]

It's looking more and more like the Utes will be sentenced to Vegas.

Sorry, I just can't see this as being good in any way. We have little to gain in that game and, we likely lose money going.


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[concerned]

It's looking more and more like the Utes will be sentenced to Vegas.

Sorry, I just can't see this as being good in any way. We have little to gain in that game and, we likely lose money going.


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How does the team get motivated for this?

[Applejack]

It's looking more and more like the Utes will be sentenced to Vegas.

Sorry, I just can't see this as being good in any way. We have little to gain in that game and, we likely lose money going.


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But most bowl games cost the team money.

I can't understand the angst of Utah fans of playing their rival. As we saw last night, we OWN BYU. They are our personal chew toy. So we don't have Covey, Scott, Booker, Hansen, and who knows who else. So what? If you gave Kyle two weeks to prepare he could beat BYU with East High's JV team (who I am certain are great). Bronco versus Whittingham with a month to prepare? This is golden!

[Applejack]

How does the team get motivated for this?

How do they get motivated to play our arch-rival on the final game of the year? I think they'll find a way.

[UBlender]

I don't get some of you guys. I for one relish the chance to kick BYU in the teeth one more time. What a better way to send them into the off season.

Besides, if we are truly separating ourselves from them, there is only one way to prove it, and that is to play, win, and win big.

Would I rather see us in the Holiday our Foster Farms bowl? Sure, but beating BYU would be a perfectly fine consolation prize.

Eh, Utah gets their chance to do their thing to BYU every year for the next five (probably more). I see no need to do it right now.

So many drawbacks about both the bowl and the opponent:

-One of the best things about making a bowl is the practice time. But with the Vegas bowl you have 13 days from invitation to game so you can't even fit in all of your allotted practices.

-Another nice thing about bowl games is the chance to play a unique opponent. I'd love to see Utah up against Wisconsin (our mirror image) or Miami (battle for "The U") or even a Big 12 also-ran more than I want to see the next game against a team we play annually for the next 5+ years.

-Utah is really banged up. Playing later rather than earlier would be advantageous to the team in hopefully getting some guys back. Another strike against Vegas.

-Utah fans are generally let down right now and Vegas would only rub salt in that wound. Based on attendance at the CU game (bad weather, but I've seen Ute fans show much better in worse conditions) I would not expect Utah to bring a lot of fans to Vegas. It would be a pseudo home game for BYU.

-If I'm being honest then the fear of losing is a factor. Utah is limping home, very banged up, Wilson's confidence seems to be in the gutter, everyone is let down....I'm not overly confident Utah wins a bowl game. If we are to lose I'd rather lose to someone other than BYU. There I said it.

I just don't see a lot of upside to that game. You like the chance to beat BYU? Me too, but I'm fine waiting until September to take our shot with a healthier roster and new QB. It's not a fine consolation prize to me, more like a punishment.

[Applejack]

Eh, Utah gets their chance to do their thing to BYU every year for the next five (probably more). I see no need to do it right now.

So many drawbacks about both the bowl and the opponent:

-One of the best things about making a bowl is the practice time. But with the Vegas bowl you have 13 days from invitation to game so you can't even fit in all of your allotted practices.

-Another nice thing about bowl games is the chance to play a unique opponent. I'd love to see Utah up against Wisconsin (our mirror image) or Miami (battle for "The U") or even a Big 12 also-ran more than I want to see the next game against a team we play annually for the next 5+ years.

-Utah is really banged up. Playing later rather than earlier would be advantageous to the team in hopefully getting some guys back. Another strike against Vegas.

-Utah fans are generally let down right now and Vegas would only rub salt in that wound. Based on attendance at the CU game (bad weather, but I've seen Ute fans show much better in worse conditions) I would not expect Utah to bring a lot of fans to Vegas. It would be a pseudo home game for BYU.

-If I'm being honest then the fear of losing is a factor. Utah is limping home, very banged up, Wilson's confidence seems to be in the gutter, everyone is let down....I'm not overly confident Utah wins a bowl game. If we are to lose I'd rather lose to someone other than BYU. There I said it.

I just don't see a lot of upside to that game. You like the chance to beat BYU? Me too, but I'm fine waiting until September to take our shot with a healthier roster and new QB. It's not a fine consolation prize to me, more like a punishment.

This is weak sauce. If you're scared of BYU, a team we haven't lost to in 2,196 days (thanks http://www.riseandshout.net/)? People here have an over inflated sense of what the Y is: they are a good qb, and that's about it (I really hope he turns pro after this year! LOL). Their dbs are horrendous, which I proclaim confidently despite not having a single BYU game all year.

And nine months between rivalry games? What could be better?!?!?!!

[concerned]

Yes, I don't think motivation will be a problem. The media have been chomping at the bit for two years to get some real violent emotions stirred up. They will do their part. The players will hear nothing but BYU on social media for the next two weeks.

AJ, you aren't feeling a bit let down? A month ago, I thought Holiday or better was close to a sure thing.

Why can't Vegas be after xmas? I remember someone answered that pretty well last year, but I don't remember the answer. I wish it were closer to NYs.

Im glad you are motivated;not sure the team is (really not sure I am, although I will go.) Its before Xmas because LV needs to fill hotel rooms before Xmas, not after.

[UBlender]

This is weak sauce. If you're scared of BYU, a team we haven't lost to in 2,196 days (thanks http://www.riseandshout.net/)? People here have an over inflated sense of what the Y is: they are a good qb, and that's about it (I really hope he turns pro after this year! LOL). Their dbs are horrendous, which I proclaim confidently despite not having a single BYU game all year.

And nine months between rivalry games? What could be better?!?!?!!

It's less about who BYU is and more about who Utah is right now. Their DBs are horrendous? If only we had a throw game to take advantage of that.

Why not take it a step further. Let's go independent and play BYU 12 times a year, since the rivalry is apparently the only thing that matters.

[Diehard Ute]

With 1:44 on the clock last night we were all reminded why we shouldn't want to play them

But all of that means very little, it's a bad situation all around, who we would be playing is just the icing on a cake made out of crap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DrumNFeather]

This is weak sauce. If you're scared of BYU, a team we haven't lost to in 2,196 days (thanks http://www.riseandshout.net/)? People here have an over inflated sense of what the Y is: they are a good qb, and that's about it (I really hope he turns pro after this year! LOL). Their dbs are horrendous, which I proclaim confidently despite not having a single BYU game all year.

And nine months between rivalry games? What could be better?!?!?!!

I think the angst comes largely from where we were just a few short weeks ago. Their best case scenario was the Vegas Bowl, which was also our worst (not because of the opponent, but literally it is about as far as we could have fallen). I think folks will be letdown, but that will be short lived by a very real shot at 6 in a row within a few months and all the pageantry that comes with playing in the Vegas bowl.

[Scratch]

I actually think BYU's a pretty good matchup for us. We'd be living in their backfield all day, and Mangum is not good when pressured. Also, Wilson has put up solid numbers against bad secondaries, I think we could put up some points against their DBs and I think our O-line is good enough to give Wilson time. I think we beat BYU by 2 TDs.

[Applejack]

Yes, I don't think motivation will be a problem. The media have been chomping at the bit for two years to get some real violent emotions stirred up. They will do their part. The players will hear nothing but BYU on social media for the next two weeks.

AJ, you aren't feeling a bit let down? A month ago, I thought Holiday or better was close to a sure thing.

Why can't Vegas be after xmas? I remember someone answered that pretty well last year, but I don't remember the answer. I wish it were closer to NYs.

Sure, I'd rather be in a NY6 bowl, or whatever they are called.

Now, we're deciding between Vegas and our hated rival or El Paso/Foster Farms (WTF is Foster Farms?) against Indiana or Penn St. or Nebraska or something. The first game gets me all pumped and giddy; the second leaves me blah.

[Scratch]

We beat USU with only a bit of trouble, but BYU wrecked them.


BYU didn't wreck Utah State. USU outgained BYU by 90 yards, got 8 more first downs, and ran all over BYU. It was turnovers that did in USU. Now, BYU definitely outplayed USU, I'm not going to say that USU was better just because they got more yardage, but the score doesn't tell the story about the difference between these 2 teams.

[Applejack]

It's less about who BYU is and more about who Utah is right now. Their DBs are horrendous? If only we had a throw game to take advantage of that.

Why not take it a step further. Let's go independent and play BYU 12 times a year, since the rivalry is apparently the only thing that matters.

Step further? Either you don't ever want to play BYU or you want them 12 games a year? Those are my only options? I'll take one order of Mendenhall soup per year, thank you.


I think the angst comes largely from where we were just a few short weeks ago. Their best case scenario was the Vegas Bowl, which was also our worst (not because of the opponent, but literally it is about as far as we could have fallen). I think folks will be letdown, but that will be short lived by a very real shot at 6 in a row within a few months and all the pageantry that comes with playing in the Vegas bowl.

So true.

[Applejack]

With 1:44 on the clock last night we were all reminded why we shouldn't want to play them

But all of that means very little, it's a bad situation all around, who we would be playing is just the icing on a cake made out of crap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mean the viscous punch by Emery that could have toppled a redwood? That should be a reason that we want to play BYU.

I agree that the Vegas Bowl is a turd bowl. But is it any worse than the Foster Farms Bowl (again, who is Foster and what's so cool about his farm?) or the Sun Bowl. Now, I would probably prefer the Holiday Bowl for reasons that don't make a lot of sense to most people (it was the pinnacle which McBride never climbed, I like San Diego, etc) but short of that we're choosing between crap. Why not have our crap served with a side of Cougartail!?

[chrisrenrut]

It's looking more and more like the Utes will be sentenced to Vegas.

Sorry, I just can't see this as being good in any way. We have little to gain in that game and, we likely lose money going.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looking into this, I think the PAC-12 pools the bowl game payouts, and after paying teams that go to bowl games a stipend for travel and tickets, distributes additional revenue equally among all 12 teams. I couldn't find anything official on that.

So traveling to Vegas instead of El Paso or The Bay Area might be more financially beneficial, with reduced travel costs and more of our ticket allotment sold.

[Applejack]

Have we ever played Penn St? That would be kinda fun, I think. Wisconsin and Miami too. Nebraska is less interesting this year. Indiana has never been interesting.

I guess in general, I kinda like the variety of someone new in a bowl game.

Sure, Penn St and Wisconsin would be better than Indiana or Nebraska. But they are nothing compared to a rivalry game. Have you all forgotten what it feels like to beat BYU? Let me remind you:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M09sopqzAY

[Applejack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaYn1mTPIn8

[Applejack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOOeaSCEOBg

[Diehard Ute]

Sure, Penn St and Wisconsin would be better than Indiana or Nebraska. But they are nothing compared to a rivalry game. Have you all forgotten what it feels like to beat BYU? Let me remind you:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M09sopqzAY

You're looking at all this from a purely personal perspective.

On a larger scale it's a no win. We win the game and we just did what a P5 team is supposed to do to them. We lose and it's an independent showing up their P5 neighbor.

It's a meh at best for me. It certainly negates the big bowl game bonus. Extra practice. By the time the game is announced officially we'll have less than 2 weeks.


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[Applejack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iBEJO4sZJI

See? beating your rival is THE BEST!

[LA Ute]

You're looking at all this from a purely personal perspective.

On a larger scale it's a no win. We win the game and we just did what a P5 team is supposed to do to them. We lose and it's an independent showing up their P5 neighbor.

It's a meh at best for me. It certainly negates the big bowl game bonus. Extra practice. By the time the game is announced officially we'll have less than 2 weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is why it's a little hard to get excited about this matchup. Other than making Utah fans feel happy a win does very little for our program.

[Applejack]

You're looking at all this from a purely personal perspective.



How else am I supposed to look at it? From an institutional perspective? The fact is, whatever game we play it matters not a wit to regular college football fans. Why not enjoy it? All the fans that are opposed to this, vehemently opposed, confuse me. What would you rather have, a matchup with Indiana in El Paso? For more practice time? Please.

[UBlender]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iBEJO4sZJI

See? beating your rival is THE BEST!

Nah. I enjoyed beating BYU in hoops last night. I would trade it in a millisecond to beat Duke in two weeks or Arizona or UCLA or Oregon or Cal.... It's nice to beat them, but we have bigger fish to fry.

(Although I do appreciate you posting highlights from the 90s, back when the BYU game really did define our season and program. I'd like to think most of us have moved on.)

[Applejack]

This is why it's a little hard to get excited about this matchup. Other than making Utah fans feel happy a win does very little for our program.

What does a win over Penn St in El Paso do for the program? NOTHING!

[Applejack]

Nah. I enjoyed beating BYU in hoops last night. I would trade it in a millisecond to beat Duke in two weeks or Arizona or UCLA or Oregon or Cal.... It's nice to beat them, but we have bigger fish to fry.

(Although I do appreciate you posting highlights from the 90s, back when the BYU game really did define our season and program. I'd like to think most of us have moved on.)

Do those bigger fish include Indiana? NC State?

[Applejack]

I was there! A BYU guy in my ward brought me because he couldn't find any BYU kids in the ward to take. He had seats in a luxury box with a bunch of stuffy BYU fans in suits. I had a Utah sweatshirt on.

Me too! I went with someone you know who is the offspring of General Authorities. What a game! MAFU 4 LIFE!

[DrumNFeather]

What does a win over NC St in El Paso do for the program? NOTHING!

Fixed it for you.

[Applejack]

Did that guy I know go to Stanford? I still like him, but I miss being able to tease him about Stanford football.

He did but he's still a Ute at heart. I credit that game for the lifelong love affair.

[UtahsMrSports]

Ok, so correct me if im wrong...........

If USC beats stanford on saturday...........would stanford have any shot at a bid to an NY6 game? I don't know how they divy those up. If that happens, I think that would slide us up from Vegas.

I also have yet to get a good explanation as to why BYU going to Vegas slides UCLA up the totem pole. All I've gotten is "UCLA already played BYU", which a) I know and b) doesn't even remotely answer my question.

[DrumNFeather]

Ok, so correct me if im wrong...........

If USC beats stanford on saturday...........would stanford have any shot at a bid to an NY6 game? I don't know how they divy those up. If that happens, I think that would slide us up from Vegas.

I also have yet to get a good explanation as to why BYU going to Vegas slides UCLA up the totem pole. All I've gotten is "UCLA already played BYU", which a) I know and b) doesn't even remotely answer my question.

Backroom deals and offbeat shenanigans to get the FF bowl to select UCLA over Utah/USC.

[UtahsMrSports]

Backroom deals and offbeat shenanigans to get the FF bowl to select UCLA over Utah/USC.

Which is garbage. There ought to be a rule in place, universally, that says a team that has a worse conference record can't be picked over a team with a better one.

Ugh..........oh well. I guess we will just have to go out and beat them.

[UBlender]

Do those bigger fish include Indiana? NC State?

We clearly disagree, but yes, I'd rather see us against a P5 that we haven't played recently and won't play soon. So yeah, give me Wisconsin, Penn State, Miami, Indiana, NC State. About the only possibility I've seen that I don't like is Pitt because again, been there done that.

[Applejack]

We clearly disagree, but yes, I'd rather see us against a P5 that we haven't played recently and won't play soon. So yeah, give me Wisconsin, Penn State, Miami, Indiana, NC State. About the only possibility I've seen that I don't like is Pitt because again, been there done that.

We definitely disagree!

[LA Ute]

What does a win over Penn St in El Paso do for the program? NOTHING!

I don't agree. One minor reason why: With that game we at least get into the Eastern sports media. BYU is a purely regional opponent, 40 miles away from us.

[Scratch]

You're looking at all this from a purely personal perspective.

On a larger scale it's a no win. We win the game and we just did what a P5 team is supposed to do to them. We lose and it's an independent showing up their P5 neighbor.

It's a meh at best for me. It certainly negates the big bowl game bonus. Extra practice. By the time the game is announced officially we'll have less than 2 weeks.


This is right. The current perception locally, nationally, everywhere except in the heads of the BYU fanbase, is that Utah is the superior program and team. Beating them again will certainly help that perspective, but probably not too much. Losing to them wouldn't completely reverse that, but it would chip away at it more than a little.

[Utebiquitous]

With the season we've had I want to play in the best possible bowl against the best possible P-5 opponent. Does the co-leader of the Pac-12 South belong in the Vegas Bowl? Stew on that for a moment. This isn't about a match up with BYU, we'll play them soon enough. I would love to see Penn St. or Wisconsin. It's also these kinds of games that start relationships that could lead to a home-and-home arrangement in the future.

[LA Ute]

With the season we've had I want to play in the best possible bowl against the best possible P-5 opponent. Does the co-leader of the Pac-12 South belong in the Vegas Bowl? Stew on that for a moment. This isn't about a match up with BYU, we'll play them soon enough. I would love to see Penn St. or Wisconsin. It's also these kinds of games that start relationships that could lead to a home-and-home arrangement in the future.

^^^
This.

[Mormon Red Death]

Ok, so correct me if im wrong...........

If USC beats stanford on saturday...........would stanford have any shot at a bid to an NY6 game? I don't know how they divy those up. If that happens, I think that would slide us up from Vegas.

I also have yet to get a good explanation as to why BYU going to Vegas slides UCLA up the totem pole. All I've gotten is "UCLA already played BYU", which a) I know and b) doesn't even remotely answer my question.
All the pundits have the sec getting 3 (playoff, peach and sugar). I didn't think that was possible but guess so.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[Ma'ake]

I don't have a problem playing BYU, I'm not "afraid" of losing to BYU... but I'm seriously beginning to think if Utah is offered a slot in the Vegas Bowl, we should decline. If that means we don't go bowling, I'm OK with that.

I'm sure the players want to play the game, but I think we need to start thinking about the bigger group of people that are associated with Utah... and with BYU.

Anyone who is intimately familiar with these football programs can confirm that the players take these games less seriously than many of the fans do. It really bugs some fans that some of our players are actually friends with some of their players.

Beginning with the 90s with Ron McBride being able to make the rivalry more even, with Meyer, and certainly with Whitt, the rise of Utah has generated enormous anger among BYU fans, understandably. I've been a Utah fan since the 70s, and I will admit to getting out-of-my-mind angry at some of the results from BYU's golden era. BYU fans have had basketball recently to ease the football emotion, but the last three years have cut off that source of positive emotion.

When I see Y fans state - and get agreement from others - that Emery has replaced Max Hall as their favorite Cougar athlete, following last night's game, that's a clear sign that the disturbing increases in dysfunctional anger have not abated, with two years off in football. The pent up anger is pushing us toward a boilover.

This rivalry truly brings out the very worst in some people. An increasingly large group of people. Ask the spouses of fans in each fan base, take a poll. We all know this is the case.

If a truly disturbed person can be found among a thousand people, we're talking about a few dozen people who might be capable of doing something truly crazy, like killing somebody. After the 2009 game - which BYU won! - the Max Hall rant, the issue with Whitt's wife getting assaulted, the multiple fisticuffs, all were signs to me that things were getting seriously out of hand.

How many people - in both fanbases - have stopped going to road games in the rivalry game because of the ill-will and potential for something bad to happen? It's not just a few people looking for excuses to get out of the game - it's a LOT of people who are pretty perceptive, and rational about how they live their lives.

So, an even better idea is to get a game together where there can be thousands and thousands of fans, from both schools, a made-for-TV battle for the ages? I'm sorry, but I don't think so.

I'll go to the game in Vegas, if that's where we go, but I'll donate TWICE as much money to the Crimson Club and the Athletic Department if we decline the invitation.

Somebody will die at one of these games, eventually. I think a lot of rational, experienced, informed observers would not disagree with this prediction, given a whole host of factors and recent experience.

Shame on the Vegas Bowl for wanting to pit two irrationally angry fan bases against each other, for the sake of TV ratings. They don't care. They want to make money.

But shame on Utah Athletics if we don't do something to detoxify this rivalry. If that means being accused of being chicken, or being fearful of BYU, or whatever, I can handle that. Wiser, cooler minds need to lead, here.

[Applejack]

I don't have a problem playing BYU, I'm not "afraid" of losing to BYU... but I'm seriously beginning to think if Utah is offered a slot in the Vegas Bowl, we should decline. If that means we don't go bowling, I'm OK with that.

I'm sure the players want to play the game, but I think we need to start thinking about the bigger group of people that are associated with Utah... and with BYU.

Anyone who is intimately familiar with these football programs can confirm that the players take these games less seriously than many of the fans do. It really bugs some fans that some of our players are actually friends with some of their players.

Beginning with the 90s with Ron McBride being able to make the rivalry more even, with Meyer, and certainly with Whitt, the rise of Utah has generated enormous anger among BYU fans, understandably. I've been a Utah fan since the 70s, and I will admit to getting out-of-my-mind angry at some of the results from BYU's golden era. BYU fans have had basketball recently to ease the football emotion, but the last three years have cut off that source of positive emotion.

When I see Y fans state - and get agreement from others - that Emery has replaced Max Hall as their favorite Cougar athlete, following last night's game, that's a clear sign that the disturbing increases in dysfunctional anger have not abated, with two years off in football. The pent up anger is pushing us toward a boilover.

This rivalry truly brings out the very worst in some people. An increasingly large group of people. Ask the spouses of fans in each fan base, take a poll. We all know this is the case.

If a truly disturbed person can be found among a thousand people, we're talking about a few dozen people who might be capable of doing something truly crazy, like killing somebody. After the 2009 game - which BYU won! - the Max Hall rant, the issue with Whitt's wife getting assaulted, the multiple fisticuffs, all were signs to me that things were getting seriously out of hand.

How many people - in both fanbases - have stopped going to road games in the rivalry game because of the ill-will and potential for something bad to happen? It's not just a few people looking for excuses to get out of the game - it's a LOT of people who are pretty perceptive, and rational about how they live their lives.

So, an even better idea is to get a game together where there can be thousands and thousands of fans, from both schools, a made-for-TV battle for the ages? I'm sorry, but I don't think so.

I'll go to the game in Vegas, if that's where we go, but I'll donate TWICE as much money to the Crimson Club and the Athletic Department if we decline the invitation.

Somebody will die at one of these games, eventually. I think a lot of rational, experienced, informed observers would not disagree with this prediction, given a whole host of factors and recent experience.

Shame on the Vegas Bowl for wanting to pit two irrationally angry fan bases against each other, for the sake of TV ratings. They don't care. They want to make money.

But shame on Utah Athletics if we don't do something to detoxify this rivalry. If that means being accused of being chicken, or being fearful of BYU, or whatever, I can handle that. Wiser, cooler minds need to lead, here.
Ok, maake, you're a good dude, but this is batshit crazy. Utah-byu is a toxic rivalry and should not be played? Try telling that to Ohio st- Michigan or Alabama-auburn or even oregon- Oregon st. If you think the rivalry is out of control, you should get out more.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Congratulations terrorists. It appears that you have won. 😢


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chrisrenrut]

I don't have a problem playing BYU, I'm not "afraid" of losing to BYU... but I'm seriously beginning to think if Utah is offered a slot in the Vegas Bowl, we should decline. If that means we don't go bowling, I'm OK with that.

I'm sure the players want to play the game, but I think we need to start thinking about the bigger group of people that are associated with Utah... and with BYU.

Anyone who is intimately familiar with these football programs can confirm that the players take these games less seriously than many of the fans do. It really bugs some fans that some of our players are actually friends with some of their players.

Beginning with the 90s with Ron McBride being able to make the rivalry more even, with Meyer, and certainly with Whitt, the rise of Utah has generated enormous anger among BYU fans, understandably. I've been a Utah fan since the 70s, and I will admit to getting out-of-my-mind angry at some of the results from BYU's golden era. BYU fans have had basketball recently to ease the football emotion, but the last three years have cut off that source of positive emotion.

When I see Y fans state - and get agreement from others - that Emery has replaced Max Hall as their favorite Cougar athlete, following last night's game, that's a clear sign that the disturbing increases in dysfunctional anger have not abated, with two years off in football. The pent up anger is pushing us toward a boilover.

This rivalry truly brings out the very worst in some people. An increasingly large group of people. Ask the spouses of fans in each fan base, take a poll. We all know this is the case.

If a truly disturbed person can be found among a thousand people, we're talking about a few dozen people who might be capable of doing something truly crazy, like killing somebody. After the 2009 game - which BYU won! - the Max Hall rant, the issue with Whitt's wife getting assaulted, the multiple fisticuffs, all were signs to me that things were getting seriously out of hand.

How many people - in both fanbases - have stopped going to road games in the rivalry game because of the ill-will and potential for something bad to happen? It's not just a few people looking for excuses to get out of the game - it's a LOT of people who are pretty perceptive, and rational about how they live their lives.

So, an even better idea is to get a game together where there can be thousands and thousands of fans, from both schools, a made-for-TV battle for the ages? I'm sorry, but I don't think so.

I'll go to the game in Vegas, if that's where we go, but I'll donate TWICE as much money to the Crimson Club and the Athletic Department if we decline the invitation.

Somebody will die at one of these games, eventually. I think a lot of rational, experienced, informed observers would not disagree with this prediction, given a whole host of factors and recent experience.

Shame on the Vegas Bowl for wanting to pit two irrationally angry fan bases against each other, for the sake of TV ratings. They don't care. They want to make money.

But shame on Utah Athletics if we don't do something to detoxify this rivalry. If that means being accused of being chicken, or being fearful of BYU, or whatever, I can handle that. Wiser, cooler minds need to lead, here.

The internet magnifies the crazy. It gives a voice to those willing to type the most, and sometimes volume is mistaken for wisdom or experience.

i see a lot of the crazy you are referencing on the Internet, but very little of it in real life. It's not impossible for something really bad to happen, think of the Giants fan at the Dodger game a couple of years ago. But I think the chances are pretty small.

[Pudge's Pole]

I don't have a problem playing BYU, I'm not "afraid" of losing to BYU... but I'm seriously beginning to think if Utah is offered a slot in the Vegas Bowl, we should decline. If that means we don't go bowling, I'm OK with that.

I'm sure the players want to play the game, but I think we need to start thinking about the bigger group of people that are associated with Utah... and with BYU.

Anyone who is intimately familiar with these football programs can confirm that the players take these games less seriously than many of the fans do. It really bugs some fans that some of our players are actually friends with some of their players.

Beginning with the 90s with Ron McBride being able to make the rivalry more even, with Meyer, and certainly with Whitt, the rise of Utah has generated enormous anger among BYU fans, understandably. I've been a Utah fan since the 70s, and I will admit to getting out-of-my-mind angry at some of the results from BYU's golden era. BYU fans have had basketball recently to ease the football emotion, but the last three years have cut off that source of positive emotion.

When I see Y fans state - and get agreement from others - that Emery has replaced Max Hall as their favorite Cougar athlete, following last night's game, that's a clear sign that the disturbing increases in dysfunctional anger have not abated, with two years off in football. The pent up anger is pushing us toward a boilover.

This rivalry truly brings out the very worst in some people. An increasingly large group of people. Ask the spouses of fans in each fan base, take a poll. We all know this is the case.

If a truly disturbed person can be found among a thousand people, we're talking about a few dozen people who might be capable of doing something truly crazy, like killing somebody. After the 2009 game - which BYU won! - the Max Hall rant, the issue with Whitt's wife getting assaulted, the multiple fisticuffs, all were signs to me that things were getting seriously out of hand.

How many people - in both fanbases - have stopped going to road games in the rivalry game because of the ill-will and potential for something bad to happen? It's not just a few people looking for excuses to get out of the game - it's a LOT of people who are pretty perceptive, and rational about how they live their lives.

So, an even better idea is to get a game together where there can be thousands and thousands of fans, from both schools, a made-for-TV battle for the ages? I'm sorry, but I don't think so.

I'll go to the game in Vegas, if that's where we go, but I'll donate TWICE as much money to the Crimson Club and the Athletic Department if we decline the invitation.

Somebody will die at one of these games, eventually. I think a lot of rational, experienced, informed observers would not disagree with this prediction, given a whole host of factors and recent experience.

Shame on the Vegas Bowl for wanting to pit two irrationally angry fan bases against each other, for the sake of TV ratings. They don't care. They want to make money.

But shame on Utah Athletics if we don't do something to detoxify this rivalry. If that means being accused of being chicken, or being fearful of BYU, or whatever, I can handle that. Wiser, cooler minds need to lead, here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTc--4jz0GQ

[Pudge's Pole]

With the season we've had I want to play in the best possible bowl against the best possible P-5 opponent. Does the co-leader of the Pac-12 South belong in the Vegas Bowl? Stew on that for a moment. This isn't about a match up with BYU, we'll play them soon enough. I would love to see Penn St. or Wisconsin. It's also these kinds of games that start relationships that could lead to a home-and-home arrangement in the future.

I'm sure you'd love to play those other schools. If ESPN's PAC 12 beat writer is to be believed, the other bowls aren't interested in a Booker-less Utes team.

[Utebiquitous]

I get that Pudge but this is where Larry Scott needs to make his money. If I was Chris Hill I'd tell Larry Scott that the Vegas Bowl is unacceptable simply based on respect for where the U finished. Add to that the school's record in bowl games and you have a near guarantee of a competitive game.

I'm with Maake - decline the invitation if it's to the Vegas Bowl but not because you don't want to play BYU, but because you're at the top of the conference and should be represented by your commissioner as such.

[SoCalPat]

All the pundits have the sec getting 3 (playoff, peach and sugar). I didn't think that was possible but guess so.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

It got three last year (playoff, Peach, Orange)

[SoCalPat]

Ok, maake, you're a good dude, but this is batshit crazy. Utah-byu is a toxic rivalry and should not be played? Try telling that to Ohio st- Michigan or Alabama-auburn or even oregon- Oregon st. If you think the rivalry is out of control, you should get out more.

In mostly full agreement. Ma'ake makes some good points about the mental instability of a segment of BYU fans, but we should never be making decisions to appease them or keep them from losing their minds. There has ALWAYS been that kind of nutjob in the rivalry -- any rivalry. Alabama had a fan poison the trees at Toomer's Corner in Auburn. BYU had a fan jump out of the stands to attack a cheerleader (and subsequently get the shit beaten out of him by said cheerleader).

BYU fans became a lot less crazy to me once I stopped engaging them on social media. If Ute fans are bothered by crazy BYU fans, it's safe for me to say based on experience that you're part of the problem. (I would say the exact same thing to BYU fans who are bothered by the nutjobs within our fanbase -- and they exist all the same, despite our wishes that they didn't).

[wally]

I'm with Maake - decline the invitation if it's to the Vegas Bowl but not because you don't want to play BYU, but because you're at the top of the conference and should be represented by your commissioner as such.

You guys are awesome, and I love you as Utes, but this is asinine, and a lie, sorry!

All of y'all that are advocating some "nobler intention" for declining an invite to the Veg, are letting your inner "yewt" show. In fact, it makes me question whether you guys are emotionally over-invested in the rivalry? Seriously, can somebody please show me an example of another mid-tier p-5 conference team that was so "big for its britches" that they declined an invite to a bowl that they deemed "inferior?" Also please show how it worked out well for that program.

If the Veg was inviting Utah and Boise State to play each other, I would be willing to guarantee that there wouldn't be as many panties in wads on this site. Or maybe the wads just wouldn't be wound up as tight, or maybe everyone here goes commando, and the issue is moot!! My point is, no matter which way you spin it, the distaste some here have for the vegas bowl is absolutely because it features a matchup with BYU, and so many Utah fans were so emotionally caught up in the rivalry, that they welcomed a final "we are better than you so we don't want to play you anymore" end to it in their own minds. the fact that fate is pulling the rivalry back together is more than they can bear.

Could Utah declining an invitation to a bowl that graciously hosted them one year previously, be a bigger drama-queen move? Would a "blue collar" analogized football team whine over an unsatisfactory bowl invite? Does winning one more game than last year make us so much better than the Veg? If Utah football is so much better than the Veg, then it should have showed it on the field and won the damn games it needed to avoid it.

I think we Utah fans may be suffering from massive head syndrome (applejack will back me up, that this is a real syndrome). It is characterized by an ego disproportionate to a persons actual standing in life. I am used to seeing BYU fans act a little delusional about their national prominence/importance, but seeing fellow Utes act this way makes me want to barf. Seriously, Utah football is in no position to turn up its nose on the Vegas Bowl.

as always I say this with all due respect, my Utah bros!

[Utebiquitous]

Wally,
I'm going to stick by my disillusionment. Let's be real - no way Chris Hill declines any invitation. He can't. But I can tell you from a conversation I had yesterday with a friend in athletics, if the Vegas Bowl becomes a reality, Hill will wish he could decline for both my reasons and Maake's.

I assure you my comment has nothing to do with the rivalry. I like the rivalry. I have no fear of playing/losing to BYU. I do feel/know we deserve better. We were there last year as a middle of the Pac-12 team. This year we are a top of the Pac-12 team (third or fourth) so yes, winning one more game than last year matters a hell of a lot. We finished fourth in the south last season losing one more game. This year we finished tied for first. It may be one game but there's a significant difference this season. This is a principle argument. You are what your record says you are.

If next year, we win seven or eight games, finish lower in the league and end up in the Vegas Bowl, so be it. That makes sense to me. Just like it did last year.

[concerned]

Wally,
I'm going to stick by my disillusionment. Let's be real - no way Chris Hill declines any invitation. He can't. But I can tell you from a conversation I had yesterday with a friend in athletics, if the Vegas Bowl becomes a reality, Hill will wish he could decline for both my reasons and Maake's.

I assure you my comment has nothing to do with the rivalry. I like the rivalry. I have no fear of playing/losing to BYU. I do feel/know we deserve better. We were there last year as a middle of the Pac-12 team. This year we are a top of the Pac-12 team (third or fourth) so yes, winning one more game than last year matters a hell of a lot. We finished fourth in the south last season losing one more game. This year we finished tied for first. It may be one game but there's a significant difference this season. This is a principle argument. You are what your record says you are.

If next year, we win seven or eight games, finish lower in the league and end up in the Vegas Bowl, so be it. That makes sense to me. Just like it did last year.

i would drop to the cactus bowl. Jan 2 is a better date, would have a lower tier P-5 opponent (maybe K state), but I understand it has a bigger payout.

[wally]

Wally,
I'm going to stick by my disillusionment. Let's be real - no way Chris Hill declines any invitation. He can't. But I can tell you from a conversation I had yesterday with a friend in athletics, if the Vegas Bowl becomes a reality, Hill will wish he could decline for both my reasons and Maake's.

I assure you my comment has nothing to do with the rivalry. I like the rivalry. I have no fear of playing/losing to BYU. I do feel/know we deserve better. We were there last year as a middle of the Pac-12 team. This year we are a top of the Pac-12 team (third or fourth) so yes, winning one more game than last year matters a hell of a lot. We finished fourth in the south last season losing one more game. This year we finished tied for first. It may be one game but there's a significant difference this season. This is a principle argument. You are what your record says you are.

If next year, we win seven or eight games, finish lower in the league and end up in the Vegas Bowl, so be it. That makes sense to me. Just like it did last year.

I hear you bro, but at the end of the day, bowl games are a beauty contest. If Utah lands at the Veg, and we are being honest, then can we acknowledge that Utah just ain't beautiful enough to warrant a better invite and let the delusions of grandeur die? I would really prefer that our fanbase not whine and sqeal like gut-shot pigs about this matter, but hey, maybe we are exactly the same as whiny BYU fans that believe the college football gods owe them something more, just wearing red instead of blue?

[mUUser]

I don't have a problem playing BYU, I'm not "afraid" of losing to BYU... but I'm seriously beginning to think if Utah is offered a slot in the Vegas Bowl, we should decline. If that means we don't go bowling, I'm OK with that.

I'm sure the players want to play the game, but I think we need to start thinking about the bigger group of people that are associated with Utah... and with BYU.

Anyone who is intimately familiar with these football programs can confirm that the players take these games less seriously than many of the fans do. It really bugs some fans that some of our players are actually friends with some of their players.

Beginning with the 90s with Ron McBride being able to make the rivalry more even, with Meyer, and certainly with Whitt, the rise of Utah has generated enormous anger among BYU fans, understandably. I've been a Utah fan since the 70s, and I will admit to getting out-of-my-mind angry at some of the results from BYU's golden era. BYU fans have had basketball recently to ease the football emotion, but the last three years have cut off that source of positive emotion.

When I see Y fans state - and get agreement from others - that Emery has replaced Max Hall as their favorite Cougar athlete, following last night's game, that's a clear sign that the disturbing increases in dysfunctional anger have not abated, with two years off in football. The pent up anger is pushing us toward a boilover.

This rivalry truly brings out the very worst in some people. An increasingly large group of people. Ask the spouses of fans in each fan base, take a poll. We all know this is the case.

If a truly disturbed person can be found among a thousand people, we're talking about a few dozen people who might be capable of doing something truly crazy, like killing somebody. After the 2009 game - which BYU won! - the Max Hall rant, the issue with Whitt's wife getting assaulted, the multiple fisticuffs, all were signs to me that things were getting seriously out of hand.

How many people - in both fanbases - have stopped going to road games in the rivalry game because of the ill-will and potential for something bad to happen? It's not just a few people looking for excuses to get out of the game - it's a LOT of people who are pretty perceptive, and rational about how they live their lives.

So, an even better idea is to get a game together where there can be thousands and thousands of fans, from both schools, a made-for-TV battle for the ages? I'm sorry, but I don't think so.

I'll go to the game in Vegas, if that's where we go, but I'll donate TWICE as much money to the Crimson Club and the Athletic Department if we decline the invitation.

Somebody will die at one of these games, eventually. I think a lot of rational, experienced, informed observers would not disagree with this prediction, given a whole host of factors and recent experience.

Shame on the Vegas Bowl for wanting to pit two irrationally angry fan bases against each other, for the sake of TV ratings. They don't care. They want to make money.

But shame on Utah Athletics if we don't do something to detoxify this rivalry. If that means being accused of being chicken, or being fearful of BYU, or whatever, I can handle that. Wiser, cooler minds need to lead, here.

You've always come across to me as a reasonable guy. Now you are suggesting that a football or basketball game will turn into a knife fight? I don't often associate outside of church with any Utah or BYU fans so don't have a good sense of what is happening on a day to day basis. What is it you're seeing along the Wasatch Front that leads you to believe there's legitimate violence in the future of these two schools?

[mUUser]

i would drop to the cactus bowl. Jan 2 is a better date, would have a lower tier P-5 opponent (maybe K state), but I understand it has a bigger payout.

As I understand it, each school gets 7,500 tickets, and the vast majority of the other 25k are up for grabs, first come, first served. As it stands, BYU fans are buying every ticket in sight right now. Yeah, we'll get our 7,500 ticket allotment, but, in the end it'll be 75% or more BYU fans, based on nothing more than timing of the invitation.

I'd tell the Veg to suck it unless they've held a whole lot more than 7,500 tickets for Utah.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[UBlender]

I'm a little bummed that we will have to miss the Utah/Duke basketball game for this. I'm guessing the Vegas has no start time flexibility. If we were sure of a Cactus bowl game against KState in Bill Snyder's farewell (though he may coach forever), I would be tempted to turn Vegas down. I do want to see Poeltl vs Plumlee.

Ah, yet another strike against the Vegas Bowl that I had not processed: Anyone who travels to the game will not able to see (in full) the biggest non-conference basketball game we've had in....a long time (ever?). Fans would be able to watch both on TV from home, which may only encourage fans to stay home.

[UBlender]

i would drop to the cactus bowl. Jan 2 is a better date, would have a lower tier P-5 opponent (maybe K state), but I understand it has a bigger payout.

It kind of begs the question: why isn't the Cactus Bowl above the Vegas Bowl in the first place? Literally everything about it is better. In fact, you may be able to argue that Cactus should be above the Sun Bowl as well, although I haven't looked up the payout for the Sun.

[LA Ute]

My somewhat sour comments:



We aren't going to turn down the Vegas Bowl if that's the offer we get. Utebiquitous is right.
Larry Scott should earn his money and use what influence he can to keep us out of that bowl. 'biq is right about that too.
It will be a downer to have to play BYU from a program perspective, not a personal one. You can't make the case that playing them in that bowl would be good for the program. It will make some Ute fans happy and a great many BYU fans very, very happy. That's all.
If it happens I will certainly watch it if I can. My wife and I might go to NY to see the Duke Game in Madison Square Garden.


You can say that playing BYU in Vegas would be a fine end to this season, but good luck putting lipstick on that pig.

[LA Ute]

I'm sure you'd love to play those other schools. If ESPN's PAC 12 beat writer is to be believed, the other bowls aren't interested in a Booker-less Utes team.

Are you trolling us? Just wondering. Haven't seen you here.

[Applejack]

Are you trolling us? Just wondering. Haven't seen you here.

Yes. He's that wannabe Red Sox fan on Cougarstadium.

[concerned]

It kind of begs the question: why isn't the Cactus Bowl above the Vegas Bowl in the first place? Literally everything about it is better. In fact, you may be able to argue that Cactus should be above the Sun Bowl as well, although I haven't looked up the payout for the Sun.

i presume chronology. The Vegas Bowl was locked into the 6th pick by contract before there was an agreement with the cactus bowl, which was relegated to 7th.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

As I understand it, each school gets 7,500 tickets, and the vast majority of the other 25k are up for grabs, first come, first served. As it stands, BYU fans are buying every ticket in sight right now. Yeah, we'll get our 7,500 ticket allotment, but, in the end it'll be 75% or more BYU fans, based on nothing more than timing of the invitation.

I'd tell the Veg to suck it unless they've held a whole lot more than 7,500 tickets for Utah.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

This is a very legitimate complaint. By the time BYU's opponent is announced, BYU will have had a full week to buy up the most/best tickets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Applejack]

.

It will be a downer to have to play BYU from a program perspective, not a personal one. You can't make the case that playing them in that bowl would be good for the program. It will make some Ute fans happy and a great many BYU fans very, very happy. That's all.


Again, why is this? Why would playing our arch-rival (and winning!) be bad for the program? Why would it be worse than the other options from a program perspective? Someone explain it to me without vagaries like "East Coast Media" or "deserve." Playing in some lower tier bowl (which is all we have a shot at) is not going to boast the program, so why not Vegas? Why not BYU?

[wally]

My somewhat sour comments:



We aren't going to turn down the Vegas Bowl if that's the offer we get. Utebiquitous is right.
Larry Scott should earn his money and use what influence he can to keep us out of that bowl. 'biq is right about that too.
It will be a downer to have to play BYU from a program perspective, not a personal one. You can't make the case that playing them in that bowl would be good for the program. It will make some Ute fans happy and a great many BYU fans very, very happy. That's all.
If it happens I will certainly watch it if I can. My wife and I might go to NY to see the Duke Game in Madison Square Garden.


You can say that playing BYU in Vegas would be a fine end to this season, but good luck putting lipstick on that pig.



First, Of course we are not turning the invite down, That would be insane.
second, do you think that Utah's/Chris Hills dissatisfaction at going to the Veg, is anywhere on Larry Scotts radar as something that he should effort to change? Larry Scott is gonna keep his job by keeping the top revenue generators in the conference happy, we are small potatoes in that regard, if we're being honest.
How is getting a free rivalry game in a non-rivalry year a downer from a program perspective? Utah crawled out of football obscurity through the 80's, 90's and 2000's in part by turning the tide in the rivalry, as a first step, then dominating it the program turned the corner. It is an integral part of our past, and playing BYU in a bowl game after 2 full years off, is simply stated awesome. The first company I ever worked for changed CEOs during my tenure and the new guy wanted to expand rapidly into different markets. Well, the effort flopped as the corporate identity suffered from turning away from the company's roots. The Utah/BYU rivalry is part of our root system. It is part of our identity. We can choose to hate it or love it, but turning away from it is to lose part of our identity.



Finally, Maybe we are the pig in lipstick that the "higher" bowls don't want? I hope that people in the program that are whining about it (if there are any) cut it out, and put on a show at the Veg that makes whatever bowls turned us down take note for next time, and then let's get the rivalry started!!!

Finally, Finally, tell me there is not just some part of us that believes that football Gods exist and destined this to happen (if it happens)!

[wally]

Again, why is this? Why would playing our arch-rival (and winning!) be bad for the program? Why would it be worse than the other options from a program perspective? Someone explain it to me without vagaries like "East Coast Media" or "deserve." Playing in some lower tier bowl (which is all we have a shot at) is not going to boast the program, so why not Vegas? Why not BYU?

:highfive:

[LA Ute]

Again, why is this? Why would playing our arch-rival (and winning!) be bad for the program? Why would it be worse than the other options from a program perspective? Someone explain it to me without vagaries like "East Coast Media" or "deserve." Playing in some lower tier bowl (which is all we have a shot at) is not going to boast the program, so why not Vegas? Why not BYU?

We just disagree. I still love you as my Ute brother. (Virtual man-hug here.) It won't be bad for the program, it just won't be good. We are supposed to beat non-P5 schools, so winning does nothing for us. Losing is an embarrassment. That's about it. Nothing to gain.

You'll forgive me for resorting to a vagary: If we play someone else, we at least get some modicum of additional exposure to their fans and their sports news media (and the media's readers). It's not huge, but it is something. We're playing BYU in 9 months anyway (and yearly thereafter) and can get the goodies you want from beating them then.

Besides, why do you care? You're on the East Coast. Take the train up to NY and watch the Utes play Duke that day.

[U-Ute]

Beating up on BYU is always a good thing. We need to show the local recruits where the green grass is.

That being said, I would have liked to play a Big-10 or ACC team for east coast exposure. A Utah/BYU game will only have local interest.

[utefan]

I think it would be disappointing, to say the least, if BYU played in literally the same bowl game as Utah. It's even more disappointing that it would happen in one of the best seasons in Utah history.

BYU is the insignificant independent. They don't get to play in the same caliber bowl games as Utah. At least they shouldn't be able to when Utah has a great season. Maybe during the down years, but certainly not during a year when Utah was one of the best teams in the Pac 12.

No freaking way. Utah did the Vegas thing last year, and proved they deserved better. Utah is much better this year.

There should be a very clear understanding with recruits that BYU is nowhere near Utah's level. And that can't happen if Utah finishes up one of the best seasons in Utah history by playing in the same bowl game as BYU.

[Redbird]

Does BYU play inspired football with Bronco departing? There are too many psychological what-ifs with bowl games as it is. That said, Whit's track record in bowl games is so impressive. It sucks not being able to use our full allotment of practices, but I'm starting to warm to the idea of playing BYU.

[Ma'ake]

If we agree to play in the Vegas Bowl against BYU, this, to me, indicates we may have finally "graduated" to full-funding in our PAC-12 phase in, but we're still regarded as the tag-along team from the MWC, who will face their old rivals, not just one year, but two years in a row, in the crappiest bowl in the PAC-12 inventory.

No respect. None. If we don't win the South and get to the CCG, we'll get put in the corner table, every year.

I say decline the Vegas Bowl offer, send a big "FU" message to the rest of the league and our bowl partners, have Arizona State go to LV (they had a much crappier year than us) and we can go to the Cactus Bowl, which has existed for 2 years, and I guarantee it's a better bowl than Vegas.

I've been to the Vegas Bowl 5 or 6 times, going back to '99, and it has barely gotten any better. The payout is a measly $1.3M, this year the bowl has allowed 3/4 of the seats to be snarfed up by the opponent because they're idiots on announcing timing.

WE WERE THERE LAST YEAR, TO THE VERY SAME DUMP OF A STADIUM! Isn't there an option we can exercise to skip this thing? Of all the bowls I've gone to, the Poinsettia Bowl was better, the Emerald SF Bowl was better (even being in a baseball stadium), the Sun Bowl was waaaay better.

This is a shaft job. Say "No thanks", make them respect us a little, let's go to the Cactus Bowl, use the extra practice time, and be in a better venue than the Sam Boyd County Dump.

All of this horseshit better be converted into a serious determination next year to take our bowl destination out of the hands of the league and these bowl "partners"... force our way into the CCG, fight our way to the Rose Bowl.

This disrespect from our conference and these bowl committees blows.

[utefan]

Has anyone ever turned down a bowl invitation? How often does that happen?

I never really knew that it was an option.

[chrisrenrut]

Has anyone ever turned down a bowl invitation? How often does that happen?

I never really knew that it was an option.

I remember Notre Dame doing it years ago.

i don't know why people still get hung up on bowl payouts. The payout goes to the conference, not the team.

[LA Ute]

If we agree to play in the Vegas Bowl against BYU, this, to me, indicates we may have finally "graduated" to full-funding in our PAC-12 phase in, but we're still regarded as the tag-along team from the MWC, who will face their old rivals, not just one year, but two years in a row, in the crappiest bowl in the PAC-12 inventory.

No respect. None. If we don't win the South and get to the CCG, we'll get put in the corner table, every year.

I say decline the Vegas Bowl offer, send a big "FU" message to the rest of the league and our bowl partners, have Arizona State go to LV (they had a much crappier year than us) and we can go to the Cactus Bowl, which has existed for 2 years, and I guarantee it's a better bowl than Vegas.

I've been to the Vegas Bowl 5 or 6 times, going back to '99, and it has barely gotten any better. The payout is a measly $1.3M, this year the bowl has allowed 3/4 of the seats to be snarfed up by the opponent because they're idiots on announcing timing.

WE WERE THERE LAST YEAR, TO THE VERY SAME DUMP OF A STADIUM! Isn't there an option we can exercise to skip this thing? Of all the bowls I've gone to, the Poinsettia Bowl was better, the Emerald SF Bowl was better (even being in a baseball stadium), the Sun Bowl was waaaay better.

This is a shaft job. Say "No thanks", make them respect us a little, let's go to the Cactus Bowl, use the extra practice time, and be in a better venue than the Sam Boyd County Dump.

All of this horseshit better be converted into a serious determination next year to take our bowl destination out of the hands of the league and these bowl "partners"... force our way into the CCG, fight our way to the Rose Bowl.

This disrespect from our conference and these bowl committees blows.

Yep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ma'ake]

Has anyone ever turned down a bowl invitation? How often does that happen?

I never really knew that it was an option.

There was some chatter earlier about the PAC having some clause where a team doesn't have to play in the same bowl, two years in a row. This may be myth, I really don't know.

UCLA wouldn't be a good choice, because they already played this year. Fair enough. Arizona wouldn't be a good choice, because BYU plays them in the first game next year. Fair enough. But since we play BYU in the *2nd* game next year, that's fine, even though we played a MWC school in the Vegas Bowl last year?

10 PAC-12 teams are going bowling - an assumption, but 10 are eligible - we're the 5th highest ranked team within the PAC-12 rankings, and we somehow got assigned the Vegas Bowl?

Nobody is calling me to ask my opinion - lol - so, I need to let this concern fade, but this is the first time I've ever really been unexcited to go to a bowl, the first time I've really felt like we got shafted. Alright, I need to let this go...

[Ma'ake]

Ok, maake, you're a good dude, but this is batshit crazy. Utah-byu is a toxic rivalry and should not be played? Try telling that to Ohio st- Michigan or Alabama-auburn or even oregon- Oregon st. If you think the rivalry is out of control, you should get out more.

My first indication that Utah-BYU was an unhealthy level of toxic was watching the Oregon-OSU Civil War (after we had been in the PAC a year or so, and many were whining because the BYU game wasn't the last game of the year). Hard played game, the whole State of Oregon looks forward to that game, but after the game I'm watching the players and coaches mingling, genuine sportsmanship. Chip Kelly is talking to Sean Mannion, Riley is talking to Oregon players, extended conversations, not just a split second "good game" and get off the field.

"Wow", I thought. "Is this what a good, spirited rivalry is supposed to be like?"

When I was younger, like many here, I worked up a really good dislike for BYU. We were disregarded and disrespected. I'll never forget Wayne Howard, in 1977 in Provo after the game, confronting the Y coaches after they RUTS'd us to get Marc Wilson a passing record, and Howard went absolutely berserk and had to be restrained. My family was walking across the field and my dad asked one of the U coaches what happened, why was Coach Howard so livid?

I remember the response like it was yesterday - the coach told us a BYU coach, angry that Howard was getting in their grill about running up the score, said to him, "take your dirty niggers and get out of here". (The next year the LDS church changed the policy on blacks and the priesthood, but it's kind of hard to "un-ring the bell", especially when you're 14 years old.)

I know, that was almost 40 years ago now, but that was my "foundational experience" of being a Ute and not caring for BYU.

BYU fans have all kinds of stories about mistreatment in RES. I'm sure some are true, some are probably myth.

And now BYU and their fans are in increasingly tough straits, over the course of a decade, which is cathartic to watch, but I completely understand their level of antipathy, their sense of injustice, their *desperation* at watching their hated little brother pull away from them.

I was talking with a BYU fan who recognized that I was reasonably level-headed. He's a good guy, somebody I respect. He asked me if I agreed that BYU deserved to be in a P5 conference, I said, "sure, you're a nationally known program, big stadium, large fan base".

"So, don't you think we should be in the PAC-12, too? Don't you think it's anti-religious bigotry from liberal elites who are discriminating only because we're Mormons, because we exercised our First Amendment rights in the Prop 8 thing?"

Geez. So, if I don't agree with him, I'm complicit in the persecution, or I also hate Mormons.

People generally believe what they want to believe, and Y fans can be shown all the research-level fundings stats, the academic freedom aspect, etc, but underneath all of it, many genuinely believe they're being persecuted for their religious beliefs.

Seriously unhealthy rivalry, not at all like Oregon-Oregon State.

[U-Ute]

I'm not sure why people are hung up on the bowl payout. We don't get the payout. All teams take expenses off the top then put the rest into a conference pool that is split up.

It isn't like the MWC days when the Vegas Bowl was the highest paying bowl we could go to and the conference couldn't pool enough money to cover all the bowl trips.

[Viking]

You should be ashamed of yourselves:

https://twitter.com/utecentral/status/672632708967698432

[USS Utah]

My first indication that Utah-BYU was an unhealthy level of toxic was watching the Oregon-OSU Civil War (after we had been in the PAC a year or so, and many were whining because the BYU game wasn't the last game of the year). Hard played game, the whole State of Oregon looks forward to that game, but after the game I'm watching the players and coaches mingling, genuine sportsmanship. Chip Kelly is talking to Sean Mannion, Riley is talking to Oregon players, extended conversations, not just a split second "good game" and get off the field.

"Wow", I thought. "Is this what a good, spirited rivalry is supposed to be like?"

When I was younger, like many here, I worked up a really good dislike for BYU. We were disregarded and disrespected. I'll never forget Wayne Howard, in 1977 in Provo after the game, confronting the Y coaches after they RUTS'd us to get Marc Wilson a passing record, and Howard went absolutely berserk and had to be restrained. My family was walking across the field and my dad asked one of the U coaches what happened, why was Coach Howard so livid?

I remember the response like it was yesterday - the coach told us a BYU coach, angry that Howard was getting in their grill about running up the score, said to him, "take your dirty niggers and get out of here". (The next year the LDS church changed the policy on blacks and the priesthood, but it's kind of hard to "un-ring the bell", especially when you're 14 years old.)

I know, that was almost 40 years ago now, but that was my "foundational experience" of being a Ute and not caring for BYU.

BYU fans have all kinds of stories about mistreatment in RES. I'm sure some are true, some are probably myth.

And now BYU and their fans are in increasingly tough straits, over the course of a decade, which is cathartic to watch, but I completely understand their level of antipathy, their sense of injustice, their *desperation* at watching their hated little brother pull away from them.

I was talking with a BYU fan who recognized that I was reasonably level-headed. He's a good guy, somebody I respect. He asked me if I agreed that BYU deserved to be in a P5 conference, I said, "sure, you're a nationally known program, big stadium, large fan base".

"So, don't you think we should be in the PAC-12, too? Don't you think it's anti-religious bigotry from liberal elites who are discriminating only because we're Mormons, because we exercised our First Amendment rights in the Prop 8 thing?"

Geez. So, if I don't agree with him, I'm complicit in the persecution, or I also hate Mormons.

People generally believe what they want to believe, and Y fans can be shown all the research-level fundings stats, the academic freedom aspect, etc, but underneath all of it, many genuinely believe they're being persecuted for their religious beliefs.

Seriously unhealthy rivalry, not at all like Oregon-Oregon State.

It's the religion thing that turns me off the most about the rivalry. If the rivalry was about the game, the competition on the field, I could embrace it. But it isn't about the game, not really.

[Viking]

You Utes are geniuses.1704

[Viking]

The prospect of seeing our Utes who finished tied for the 3rd best conference record this year (worst case in the tie making us the #5 team) to be relegated to the sixth bowl is a tough pill to swallow. It's as simple as that.

It all comes down to the fact that the Holiday and Foster Farms bowls are picking from pools that include Utah, Washington St, USC, and UCLA this year. Guess which two programs that the bowls in California are going to choose? This is nothing new. You only have to go back one year for a similar situation:

1703





Three bowls (Alamo, Holiday and FF) picked from a pool of UCLA, ASU, USC, and Stanford (Stanford was selected by FF despite having a worse record than ASU). All of the California schools were chosen first. ASU might have complained, but instead of going to the FF bowl to face a 7-5 Maryland, they got to go play the 9-3 Duke team in El Paso so I'd say it worked out for them.

It's never fun to be picked last, but it's the reality of being in the conference with these big California schools. If we want to play in big bowls we need to win two or more conference games than they do. That way we give the bowls no choice but to choose us.

Oh, please. You guys were slumming it with us in the MWC until a few years ago, have done jack shit in the PAC12 and are bunched up about an invite to the Vegas Bowl. Oh, wait, nearly 60% of your fan base would rather stay home than play a bowl game.

#UteLogic #Couldn'tgetinevennow

[Viking]

That's what I just said, if we want to get away from Vegas we need to win more games than the other teams in the Pac.

You're right and fair enough. I only read the first part of your message.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Oh, please. You guys were slumming it with us in the MWC until a few years ago, have done jack shit in the PAC12 and are bunched up about an invite to the Vegas Bowl. Oh, wait, nearly 60% of your fan base would rather stay home than play a bowl game.

#UteLogic #Couldn'tgetinevennow

Your team is doing us a huge favor right now by beating Baylor. I hope they keep it up. That way this whole point is moot.

#IndependenceMeansNobodyWantsYou

[DrumNFeather]

Oh, please. You guys were slumming it with us in the MWC until a few years ago, have done jack shit in the PAC12 and are bunched up about an invite to the Vegas Bowl. Oh, wait, nearly 60% of your fan base would rather stay home than play a bowl game.

#UteLogic #Couldn'tgetinevennow
Jack shit? South Co-Champs baby!!!

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[NorthwestUteFan]

Jack shit? South Co-Champs baby!!!

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Playing byu in a crappy bowl game is the very definition of jack$#!t. It is the jack$#!t of all Participation Trophies.

[UtahsMrSports]

So it appears our only way out of vegas is for stanford to jump oklahoma, iowa, and ohio st. Not totallt crazy, as they were the only team in that group to win a conference title game. But unlikely. Ugh....

[Ma'ake]

You should be ashamed of yourselves:

https://twitter.com/utecentral/status/672632708967698432

I'll bet if they announce today that Arizona State or WSU or Cal is playing in the Vegas Bowl, and Utah is in the Cactus Bowl, there would be the normal amount of Utes representing our school and our conference in Phoenix on January 2nd, ie, a LOT.

The last time we were in Seattle, when the Huskies were playing in Century Link because their stadium was being rebuilt, I overheard a couple of stadium ushers, looking up at the 5000 or so Ute fans, and one said "I had no idea Utah travelled this well".

Two years without playing BYU has spoiled us, we've come to know what good, healthy, athletic competition is all about, even building up *sports* rivalries against PAC-12 teams, like ASU, SC, Arizona, UCLA, etc.

What Ute fans are revolting about is having to play *you guys*, in the same bowl we were in last year.

USS Utah is spot on - it's not the sports that turns us off, in Utah-BYU.

It's everything that doesn't have anything to do with sports.

[Ma'ake]

@Viking:

"There does come a point where rivalry behavior becomes unhealthy. I didn’t see it while in it. I only saw it when we stopped playing." - Bronco Mendenhall, Dec 5, 2015.

Bronco's a football coach, focused on the nuts and bolts of preparing the team, executing gameplans, etc. He doesn't pay as much attention to what the chatter is like outside the game, like we do.

Don't you think it's striking that the ugliness of the rivalry was extended - possibly increased, on the BYU side - during the 2 year hiatus, to the point where Bronco noticed it? He has probably thought "this thing is far uglier than I realized".

Should we play, just to satisfy the hunger of BYU fans to get some redemption?

If you guys beat us in the Vegas Bowl, would you agree to another 2 year hiatus? Maybe it would help you get some "closure".

The players and coaches are focused on what they do. Our guys and your guys will be motivated and amped to play hard.

But in the larger arena of fan interaction, water cooler talk, tension between people at church, the possibility that some unstable actor might do something *really* crazy... as a Utah fan, if BYU would agree to drop the games in 2016 and 2017 in exchange for playing in Vegas, I'd take that offer, in a nanosecond.

[U-Ute]

The irrational BYU fans won't be happy until they are convinced they have the upper hand a-la the 70s and 80s. Which we all know won't be happening anytime soon.

[Ma'ake]

The irrational BYU fans won't be happy until they are convinced they have the upper hand a-la the 70s and 80s. Which we all know won't be happening anytime soon.

Having been on the short end of the stick in this rivalry, I completely agree.

BYU fans are like your irrationally angry little brother - who is so wound up about needing to beat you in one-on-one basketball, that he keeps changing the terms:

"OK, best of 3", "Best of 5!"... "BEST OF SEVEN! !"

You keep playing and playing, extending the competition until you're out there at 11 pm playing in the driveway, the neighbors get angry, and your mom threatens to have the basketball standard taken out.

At some point, you realize it's much bigger than just making baskets. Sometimes it's just better for everyone if you let him win some games.

[Mormon Red Death]

When will we know where we go?

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[DrumNFeather]

"Sources" Wazzu and Miami to the Sun

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[DrumNFeather]

It's Vegas!

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[justaute]

We "earned" our way into Vegas. If we lose to BYU...haha. The Utah-fan(atic) community will explode.

[LA Ute]

We "earned" our way into Vegas.

I guess that's true, with the three losses (two of them inexcusable) and the offensive troubles, plus the injuries, we end up being one of three ranked PAC-12 teams (also a division co-champion) but going to the bowl set aside for the sixth team out of the conference. All we can do now is show up and win big to express our displeasure.

[Solon]

We "earned" our way into Vegas. If we lose to BYU...haha. The Utah-fan(atic) community will explode.

I don't mind playing the byu; they're a solid team and it should be fun.
It's the fans in my neighborhood who are acting like this is their Super Bowl that are driving me crazy.

If Whit is good at anything, it's playing the "nobody respects us" card.

[LA Ute]

I don't mind playing the byu; they're a solid team and it should be fun.
It's the fans in my neighborhood who are acting like this is their Super Bowl that are driving me crazy.

If Whit is good at anything, it's playing the "nobody respects us" card.

It is kind of funny to see how excited BYU fans are about playing us. Nothing says "little brother" more loudly.

[concerned]

We "earned" our way into Vegas. If we lose to BYU...haha. The Utah-fan(atic) community will explode.


the conference earned our way there too, by getting shut out of the playoffs and only one NY-6 bowl

[GarthUte]

I guess it's official now, eh?

Well then, go Utes!

[UTEopia]

So will the Utes sell the allotment of tickets? I think we will easily sell them. We get an allotment of 7,500?, about 2,000 will go to coaches and players families, the band, etc., leaving only about 5,500 for fans.

[NorthwestUteFan]

The good news is this will be one of the more winnable games. Thar doesn't mean we WILL win, but I believe we will be somewhat less likely to lose than we would against Wisconsin or Miami, for example.

[OrangeUte]

i like that we are playing byu. I like playing them every year. it is a great rivalry and it is the biggest rivalry for my team. many of my friends and even family members are byu fans. it is something we can all talk about and get excited about. now we have only really taken one year off instead of two, and I like that. this rivalry should be played every single year.

[Mormon Red Death]

So will the Utes sell the allotment of tickets? I think we will easily sell them. We get an allotment of 7,500?, about 2,000 will go to coaches and players families, the band, etc., leaving only about 5,500 for fans.
Game is sold out. Nice to have a game where 75% of the fans will be the other team

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[OrangeUte]

this is the part that sucks. cougars have known that this would be their bowl game for at least a week and bought up all of the tickets.

[OrangeUte]

lots of tickets for $149 + on stubhub by the cougar faithful.

[Diehard Ute]

The lack of ticket availability is bad. Not only does it mean few Utes will be there but it guarantees most who are are high level donors. The average joe has little chance to go.


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[LA Ute]

Somewhere in this pile of manure there is a pony.


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Somewhere in this pile of manure there is a pony.


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Coaching his last game?


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[Applejack]

:jig:

Let's kill those fornicators!

[hostile]

:jig:

Let's kill those fornicators!
And then dance on their grave!!!

[Ma'ake]

Whit is good at... playing the "nobody respects us" card.

Talked to a player today. A lot of anger. Whit will be preaching to the choir on the "nobody respects us" angle.

[LA Ute]

Coaching his last game?


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Well-played, sir.

[Old Standing ute]

Why would anyone go to Vegas to watch a crappy BYU team when they could go to the Garden & watch the Utes play Duke?

Had my tickets for ages--this is a once in a lifetime special, whereas we play BYU every year.

And the Vegas Bowl--we play there every year.
I have absolutely no interest in that game.

Interesting to see who goes to which of the 2 games.

[Viking]

Why would anyone go to Vegas to watch a crappy BYU team when they could go to the Garden & watch the Utes play Duke?

Had my tickets for ages--this is a once in a lifetime special, whereas we play BYU every year.

And the Vegas Bowl--we play there every year.
I have absolutely no interest in that game.

Interesting to see who goes to which of the 2 games.

You're right: if I were you, I would never expect to play Duke again.

I, coincidentally, will be leaving from JFK on Dec 18 for Vegas for the actual once in a lifetime (technically, "once-in-a-lifetime") special as you have chosen not to play BYU every year and I believe we've never met in a bowl game before. Apparently, you're very special now that you're in the Pac12. The world awaits your special education students!

[U-Ute]

You're right: if I were you, I would never expect to play Duke again.

I expect Duke to go deep into the tournament every year.

[SoCalPat]

Why would anyone go to Vegas to watch a crappy BYU team when they could go to the Garden & watch the Utes play Duke?

Had my tickets for ages--this is a once in a lifetime special, whereas we play BYU every year.

And the Vegas Bowl--we play there every year.
I have absolutely no interest in that game.

Interesting to see who goes to which of the 2 games.

Hyperbolize much? We played Duke in hoops in a much more meaningful game just 8 months ago.

[Rocker Ute]

Hyperbolize much? We played Duke in hoops in a much more meaningful game just 8 months ago.


Yeah, but playing Duke regular season in MSG is likely a once-in-a-lifetime special. More meaningful? Sure, just about any sweet-16 game is more meaningful than a regular season game, but this one is special. Were I to have the choice between going to MSG or the Vegas Bowl on the 19th it would be MSG without question.

[LA Ute]

Yeah, but playing Duke regular season in MSG is likely a once-in-a-lifetime special. More meaningful? Sure, just about any sweet-16 game is more meaningful than a regular season game, but this one is special. Were I to have the choice between going to MSG or the Vegas Bowl on the 19th it would be MSG without question.

We'd be in NY for this game but a close friend is getting married that day and it's also our daughter's first day home from the U.


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[mUUser]

Duke in NYC at the MSG during the Christmas Season? Awesome, special, incredible.....pick your superlative.

[sancho]

Pac-12 bowl games:

Arizona vs New Mexico, Dec 19. I can't see any reason why anyone would be rooting against the Lobos here. Awoooooo!
Utah vs BYU, Dec 19. BYU wanted this so badly, they'd have played it on a Sunday. Let's spoil their fun.
WSU vs Miami. Go Canes!
UW vs USM. I do not care who wins this game. My brother went to UW, so go Chris Pete's, I guess.
UCLA vs Nebraska. Wow, what a stinker of a game.
Cal vs AFA. I never liked playing Air Force. I hope Cal dislikes it just as much.
USC vs Wisconsin. Go Badgers! How many losses in a row can we get to start the Helton era?
Stanford vs Iowa. You know I dislike Stanford, but it really would be un-American to root against Iowa here.
OU vs TCU. The third of the Pac-12's three interesting bowl games. Quack.
ASU vs WVA. Go Mountaineers!

[concerned]

UtahUte72 posted on Utefans that USC asked to go to the Vegas Bowl so they could clean house on defense (maybe they would have waited until after the game to fire everybody), but the Holiday Bowl and ESPN wouldn't allow it, and the conference wouldn't force the issue. That would explain the prognostications Sat night the USC was going to the Vegas Bowl.

[sancho]

UtahUte72 posted on Utefans that USC asked to go to the Vegas Bowl so they could clean house on defense (maybe they would have waited until after the game to fire everybody), but the Holiday Bowl and ESPN wouldn't allow it, and the conference wouldn't force the issue. That would explain the prognostications Sat night the USC was going to the Vegas Bowl.

What does going to the Vegas bowl have to do with cleaning house on defense?

I read yesterday that USC is now on its 5 OL coach in 5 years. Kyle-esque!

[concerned]

You really have to ask that question?

[sancho]

You really have to ask that question?

But he fired everyone anyway? Clearly didn't need Vegas to do it.

[concerned]

But he fired everyone anyway? Clearly didn't need Vegas to do it.

That's the point; he went ahead and did it anyway but wanted to wait, or wanted to have a lower profile bowl.

[sancho]

That's the point; he went ahead and did it anyway but wanted to wait, or wanted to have a lower profile bowl.

It's funny that he thought it would matter. He fired everyone, and it was news for a few hours. If he had been in the lower profile Vegas, it would have been the same.

I always think if you want to fire a coach, you should do it immediately. Don't give the coach a chance to have a great game. What if he got Vegas and beat BYU 8-0 on four safeties? Then he's stuck.

[wally]

What if he got Vegas and beat BYU 8-0 on four safeties? Then he's stuck.

That would be a pretty badass game.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Probably true, but I wonder. Coach k's seemed to hit it off last year, and I think that may have had something to do with this game. Coach k1 doesn't usually make an effort to schedule games at recruits' homes, but maybe he would do it to give Frank Jackson a UT game. Utah is further than duke usually travels, but duke likes a challenging possession.

Actually Coach K does schedule a home game for recruits that stay 3 or more years. That's why they've played in that crappy Alaska Shootout a few times. They also hammered Oregon in Singler's senior season in Portland.

However I would likely expect Duke to play UVU or Weber at whatever they call the Delta Center now before playing Utah.

[Diehard Ute]

Actually Coach K does schedule a home game for recruits that stay 3 or more years. That's why they've played in that crappy Alaska Shootout a few times. They also hammered Oregon in Singler's senior season in Portland.

However I would likely expect Duke to play UVU or Weber at whatever they call the Delta Center now before playing Utah.

Frank's dad has already declared him a one and done candidate. So that won't be a concern


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[Two Utes]

Frank's dad has already declared him a one and done candidate. So that won't be a concern


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Frank's dad should be concerned that Frank won't play much if Grayson Allen stays at Duke next year.

[SoCalPat]

Yeah, but playing Duke regular season in MSG is likely a once-in-a-lifetime special. More meaningful? Sure, just about any sweet-16 game is more meaningful than a regular season game, but this one is special. Were I to have the choice between going to MSG or the Vegas Bowl on the 19th it would be MSG without question.

In Cameron Indoor, yes. Not in MSG. It's a nice game, but we've played in MSG several times in my lifetime.

Larry scheduled KU on a neutral site last year, and Duke this year. Let's tap the breaks on once-in-a-lifetime.

Now, from a pure vacation standpoint, I gotta admit, I'd take the trip to NYC. Even if we were playing BYU in the Pinstripe Bowl and the basketball team was playing Duke in Vegas.

[U-Ute]

That awkward moment when a bowl sponsor can't tell one of the bowl participants from their rival...

The Belk Bowl features Mississippi State vs NC State.

Mississippi State fleece hoodie (http://www.belk.com/AST/Main/Belk_Primary/PRD~3203342B0MVA30P6185MISSRED/Knights+Apparel+Mississippi+State+Bulldogs+Fleece+ Hoodie.jsp?prd_id=845524442422598)

Mississippi State umbrella (http://www.belk.com/AST/Main/Belk_Primary/PRD~320307824769/Team+Golf+Mississippi+State+Bulldogs+Umbrella.jsp)

Mississippi State dress shirt (http://www.belk.com/AST/Main/Belk_Primary/PRD~3202440P877MIS/Campus+Specialties+Mississippi+State+Bulldogs+Wove n+Shirt.jsp)

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Frank's dad should be concerned that Frank won't play much if Grayson Allen stays at Duke next year.

Cool, he sounds like Jake Heaps!

[LA Ute]

It's about time for this:

NCAA football: Changes coming after bowl system reaches record 40 games

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/3291894-155/ncaa-football-changes-coming-after-bowl?fullpage=1

We're mad about our bowl. Would we rather play a 5-7 Nebraska team? Maybe, but we wouldn't be thrilled about that either.

[Jarid in Cedar]

It's about time for this:

NCAA football: Changes coming after bowl system reaches record 40 games

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/3291894-155/ncaa-football-changes-coming-after-bowl?fullpage=1

We're mad about our bowl. Would we rather play a 5-7 Nebraska team? Maybe, but we wouldn't be thrilled about that either.

A game vs BYU or vs a 5-7 Nebraska team....

If you can't answer this question in a nano second, you have just admit that your are not a college football fan or a Utah fan. You are simply a BYU hater. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Diehard Ute]

A game vs BYU or vs a 5-7 Nebraska team....

If you can't answer this question in a nano second, you have just admit that your are not a college football fan or a Utah fan. You are simply a BYU hater. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think the opponent is part of the equation, but so is the destination.

I get the point being made but it's not as simple just who you play or where is played.


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[UBlender]

I think the opponent is part of the equation, but so is the destination.

I get the point being made but it's not as simple just who you play or where is played.


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I was mad about playing BYU at first. Speaking strictly of opponents, I would still rather play Wisconsin, Miami, Penn State or some of the other programs that were rumored to be in the Holiday/FF/Sun Bowls. But I'm over being upset about BYU. The part I'm still upset about is that I feel like we're being relegated to the kids table by the decision makers (ESPN, the PAC 12, bowl committees). I feel that we still carry a perception for many fans that we're a mid-major posing as a P5 and our connection with BYU only adds to that.

I'm glad people are supporting the team but I'm afraid that the success of ticket sales is only going to make people think Utah "belongs" in the Vegas Bowl and will continue to subject us to that in the future given the chance.

So to summarize my long and rambling response. I'm fine with playing BYU, it is better than Nebraska. I'd like it a lot more if it were happening in the Holiday or Foster Farms bowl instead of the Mid-Majors Bowl.

[Solon]

I was mad about playing BYU at first. Speaking strictly of opponents, I would still rather play Wisconsin, Miami, Penn State or some of the other programs that were rumored to be in the Holiday/FF/Sun Bowls. But I'm over being upset about BYU. The part I'm still upset about is that I feel like we're being relegated to the kids table by the decision makers (ESPN, the PAC 12, bowl committees). I feel that we still carry a perception for many fans that we're a mid-major posing as a P5 and our connection with BYU only adds to that.

I'm glad people are supporting the team but I'm afraid that the success of ticket sales is only going to make people think Utah "belongs" in the Vegas Bowl and will continue to subject us to that in the future given the chance.

So to summarize my long and rambling response. I'm fine with playing BYU, it is better than Nebraska. I'd like it a lot more if it were happening in the Holiday or Foster Farms bowl instead of the Mid-Majors Bowl.

We're in the same situation as a lot of other programs. Penn State always ends up in a better bowl than it deserves because it has the largest alumni association in North America. I don't think anybody really assigns that "mid-major" label to the Utes anymore. Remember the love the Utes got earlier this year? It wasn't cast as a "David beating Goliath" story as it would've been in 2004. The Utes were Goliath.

And then they took a rock to the face, just like that guy from Gath.

We need better sports self-esteem. Worrying about respect & popularity & what the national media are saying is a byu move. So, what if people don't care about Utah just like I don't really care about Iowa or Tennessee or Waco, Texas? Winning will bring respect. Losing will bring indifference. It takes time to build a program. The Utes are a solid program with a lot of regional respect (Let's not kid ourselves: KW is very well respected in the PAC).

The only pisser this season is the what-might-have-beens. A lot of stars aligned this year and the team couldn't capitalize. Oh well. All they can do is go out there one more time and play hard in LV.

[mUUser]

It's about time for this:

NCAA football: Changes coming after bowl system reaches record 40 games

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/3291894-155/ncaa-football-changes-coming-after-bowl?fullpage=1

We're mad about our bowl. Would we rather play a 5-7 Nebraska team? Maybe, but we wouldn't be thrilled about that either.

Was listening to The Playbook on XM today. They had Mack Brown as a guest, and the conversation turned to bowl games. Coach Brown said the only people that are opposed to the number of bowls today, haven't had a player or a child involved in the bowl system. Said it was important to the players especially those that had "iffy" home lives and may not have a traditional Christmas like others. Many took the gifts they received at the bowl games, and gave them to their younger brothers and sisters.

He was also in favor of expanding the bowls to include destinations like US Virgin Islands, Samoa and other "exotic" destinations where many of those kids would otherwise never visit.

Was an interesting view on the bowl system.

[LA Ute]

A game vs BYU or vs a 5-7 Nebraska team....

If you can't answer this question in a nano second, you have just admit that your are not a college football fan or a Utah fan. You are simply a BYU hater. Nothing more, nothing less.

Not sure if you're talking about me here. I was trying to say I'd much rather play BYU than a 5-7 Nebraska team. UCLA got the short end of that stick, I think.

[LA Ute]

I was mad about playing BYU at first. Speaking strictly of opponents, I would still rather play Wisconsin, Miami, Penn State or some of the other programs that were rumored to be in the Holiday/FF/Sun Bowls. But I'm over being upset about BYU. The part I'm still upset about is that I feel like we're being relegated to the kids table by the decision makers (ESPN, the PAC 12, bowl committees). I feel that we still carry a perception for many fans that we're a mid-major posing as a P5 and our connection with BYU only adds to that.

I'm glad people are supporting the team but I'm afraid that the success of ticket sales is only going to make people think Utah "belongs" in the Vegas Bowl and will continue to subject us to that in the future given the chance.

So to summarize my long and rambling response. I'm fine with playing BYU, it is better than Nebraska. I'd like it a lot more if it were happening in the Holiday or Foster Farms bowl instead of the Mid-Majors Bowl.

I've become pretty excited about playing BYU. It's the game in front of us now, so let's win it. A victory would be sweet. A beatdown would be even better -- not just for our bragging rights, but also for our standing in the bowl world. (I.e., we don't belong in the Vegas Bowl.) We have no control over what's on our plate, so let's just devour it.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Not sure if you're talking about me here. I was trying to say I'd much rather play BYU than a 5-7 Nebraska team. UCLA got the short end of that stick, I think.

Not directed at you specifically. Just making a PSA

[GarthUte]

Again, the Utes only have themselves to blame for the Vegas Bowl. If they win the games against Arizona and UCLA, they'd have proven they belong in a bigger-name bowl. Even if they don't blow it against Arizona, they'd have finished at 10-2 and probably gotten an invite to the Holiday Bowl.

It's there own damn fault.

[LA Ute]

Not directed at you specifically. Just making a PSA

With which I agreed. I know UCLA fans who are really upset about having to play Nebraska.

[SoCalPat]

In spite of all the criticisms Kyle faces regarding the offense -- almost all of them legitimate -- I know he'd rather score 40 per game than 30. I don't believe for a second that he "hates" offense, or wants his defense to be the unit that wins games. He would rather win 55-28 than 21-17, and I'll call B.S. on any coach that says otherwise.

You don't score 40 per game today with the offensive identity Utah has. We don't need to go Mike Leach on offense, but some of the reasons bowls that could've taken Utah, but instead passed, are legitimate. To the casual fan, we're boring. We're not innovative. In college football, where perception means so much, I hope that resonates with Kyle and he takes a different look at his offensive M.O.

[U-Ute]

In spite of all the criticisms Kyle faces regarding the offense -- almost all of them legitimate -- I know he'd rather score 40 per game than 30. I don't believe for a second that he "hates" offense, or wants his defense to be the unit that wins games. He would rather win 55-28 than 21-17, and I'll call B.S. on any coach that says otherwise.

You don't score 40 per game today with the offensive identity Utah has. We don't need to go Mike Leach on offense, but some of the reasons bowls that could've taken Utah, but instead passed, are legitimate. To the casual fan, we're boring. We're not innovative. In college football, where perception means so much, I hope that resonates with Kyle and he takes a different look at his offensive M.O.

Kyle is a football guy. He knows you have to be able to throw the ball if you want to run it. But I also I think he knows he doesn't have the personnel to run a more risky offense, so he plays it conservative (throwing just as much as he has to).

[Applejack]

Kyle is a football guy. He knows you have to be able to throw the ball if you want to run it. But I also I think he knows he doesn't have the personnel to run a more risky offense, so he plays it conservative (throwing just as much as he has to).

Our hands were tied this year by a dearth of receivers and Travis' well-documented limitations.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I guarantee Kyle would throw more if he had an accurate QB and athletic WRs with great hands who caught everything thrown their direction (as all of our opponents seem to do). He says all the time that he wants to run a 'balanced offense'.

[LA Ute]

I guarantee Kyle would throw more if he had an accurate QB and athletic WRs with great hands who caught everything thrown their direction (as all of our opponents seem to do). He says all the time that he wants to run a 'balanced offense'.


It is his job to get players like that on the team and on the field. I know, I know, there are lots of excuses. But he's the head coach.

[U-Ute]

It is his job to get players like that on the team and on the field. I know, I know, there are lots of excuses. But he's the head coach.

I think stuff likes that takes time mainly because you have a limited recruiting budget (from both a time and money standpoint), and while he would like to get the top QB and receivers every year, he won't sacrifice linemen to do it.

In my opinion, we saw the OL and DL get upgraded in the first two years, and then LB and DB get the focus in the second two years. I think we saw the start of the focus on the WR last year, but it'll take another year or two of building up the guys we have and filling in for wash outs.

Then you go after a QB who can manage it all.

I say maybe 3-5 more years (depending on wash outs) before we really see both sides of the ball filled out.

[LA Ute]

I say maybe 3-5 more years (depending on wash outs) before we really see both sides of the ball filled out.

Probably right. I can wait.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Probably right. I can wait.

Might not need to wait that long. After Ken Niumatalolo is announced as the new byu coach on Monday, we should take a close look at their WR commits, and poach the worthy players (if they have any).

So, do you really want to play WR for a team that will only throw 10 passes per game? No? Maybe you should come catch passes from Troy Williams..."

[sancho]

Might not need to wait that long. After Ken Niumatalolo is announced as the new byu coach on Monday, we should take a close look at their WR commits, and poach the worthy players (if they have any).

So, do you really want to play WR for a team that will only throw 10 passes per game? No? Maybe you should come catch passes from Troy Williams..."


I'm all for stealing recruits from BYU, but I'm guessing that their WRs are not going to be our key to instant offense.

[concerned]

Might not need to wait that long. After Ken Niumatalolo is announced as the new byu coach on Monday, we should take a close look at their WR commits, and poach the worthy players (if they have any).

So, do you really want to play WR for a team that will only throw 10 passes per game? No? Maybe you should come catch passes from Troy Williams..."

Sounds like you and Sancho are right. Ken N. has already interviewed for the job, and is coming on Monday to accept, according to swirling rumors. But they claim he is not going to run the TO, because Holmoe told him he cant. FWIW.

Jacob Trinnamon is a Y receiver recruit that we have already tried to flip. Supposedly very fast.

[Applejack]

Might not need to wait that long. After Ken Niumatalolo is announced as the new byu coach on Monday, we should take a close look at their WR commits, and poach the worthy players (if they have any).

So, do you really want to play WR for a team that will only throw 10 passes per game? No? Maybe you should come catch passes from Troy Williams..."

No reason to wait until Monday. If there is anyone worth pursuing (Concerned mentions one) we should put in a word right now. I'm sure the coaches have called to gauge the level of commitment already.

[LA Ute]

Sounds like you and Sancho are right. Ken N. has already interviewed for the job, and is coming on Monday to accept, according to swirling rumors. But they claim he is not going to run the TO, because Holmoe told him he cant. FWIW.

Jacob Trinnamon is a Y receiver recruit that we have already tried to flip. Supposedly very fast.

Would Holmoe really tell a head coach what offense to run? Just curious, mainly.


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[UTEopia]

Would Holmoe really tell a head coach what offense to run? Just curious, mainly.


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No. He would get a General Authority to do it.

[chrisrenrut]

Would Holmoe really tell a head coach what offense to run? Just curious, mainly.


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Probably not, but I could see him telling a new coach what offense he can't run.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Probably not, but I could see him telling a new coach what offense he can't run.

Sounds like a great idea.
"You have some impressive success against very long odds and with significant built-in challenges. You have over two decades running a specific scheme, and have patterned your team around that specific offensive scheme. We want to bring you in to run our team, but we also want you to implement OUR scheme and using a completely different type of athlete. And we want you to hit the ground running and continue the level of success to which we have become accustomed ..."

What could possibly go wrong? On the other hand it might be fun to watch a decade of bad byu football, just for the schafenfreude.

:D

[Solon]

Sounds like a great idea.
"You have some impressive success against very long odds and with significant built-in challenges. You have over two decades running a specific scheme, and have patterned your team around that specific offensive scheme. We want to bring you in to run our team, but we also want you to implement OUR scheme and using a completely different type of athlete. And we want you to hit the ground running and continue the level of success to which we have become accustomed ..."

What could possibly go wrong? On the other hand it might be fun to watch a decade of bad byu football, just for the schafenfreude.

:D

There are reasons that the option doesn't work at the highest levels of football (e.g., an expectation that RBs can block DEs), but at a glance the byu has a lot of the makings of an option team - a team with recruiting limitations and a lot of smart, quick, disciplined kids who can make up for some shortcomings with precise execution. All smack-talking aside, an option attack plays to the byu's ethos and advantages.

I get it that it's quarterback U and that Tanner M is the rill dill but, long-term, the option has possibilities. (Taysom Hill seems like he could be a great option QB). Especially with an independent schedule where teams don't get used to playing the byu every year, and the element of unfamiliarity is another advantage.

Plus, you can still chuck it a lot out of option formations. Hell, Joe Flacco played in a wing-t offense in college and they threw like crazy.

[Solon]

Are we still taking about BYU?

Ha. Touche.
The student-body at large is not the same as the punch-throwers on the field.

[Old Standing ute]

Hyperbolize much? We played Duke in hoops in a much more meaningful game just 8 months ago.

So looking back at today--you are right instead of being in the Garden watching an upset of the #2 ranked team in overtime,
I could have been sitting outside in Vegas watching Utah sit on a lead for 4 quarters. Nothing like 3 & outs.

You are right that would have been much more meaningful---not to mention fun.

[chrisrenrut]

Why would you post that? They were both great games with great outcomes. I'm happy for any Ute who was able to attend either.

SCP's post was kind of condescending. The last time we played Duke in the regular season was 1970 (in MSG, coincidently) Old Standing Ute was not far off saying this was a once in a lifetime chance, and was a long way from hyperbole.

[Old Standing ute]

Why would you post that? They were both great games with great outcomes. I'm happy for any Ute who was able to attend either.

High road---you are correct. My apologies.

Just got tired of TDS fans talking about how great game this would be; blah, blah, blah. In reality Utes played the 7th ranked BB team in Duke whereas they had the chance to play the 3rd best independent team ( after Notre Dame & Navy), so they were probably right.

Great wins by both teams.

[Viking]

Ha. Touche.
The student-body at large is not the same as the punch-throwers on the field.

Let the record show the only player ejected was wearing red

[NorthwestUteFan]

Let the record show the only player ejected was wearing red

...for a legal hit, prior to the whistle.

Unfortunately BYU's reputation preceded them, and the refs called the game extremely tight to maintain control. If Utah played any other opponent, that bump is ignored.

[U-Ute]

Let the record show the only player ejected was wearing red


Yeah that was dumb. He certainly didn't get his money's worth.

[GarthUte]

I used to love watching as many bowl games as possible, but the older I get, the less interest I have in any game in which Utah is not playing. Anyone else feel the same?

Edit: I've edited my little mistake. Thanks for the heads up, SU.

[SeattleUte]

I used to love watching as many bowl games as possible, but the older I get, the less interest I have in any game in which Utah is playing. Anyone else feel the same?

In which Utah is playing? That's ****** up. I really only care about bowls in which Utah is playing and the Big Bowls.

[GarthUte]

In which Utah is playing? That's ****** up. I really only care about bowls in which Utah is playing and the Big Bowls.

I edited my mistake in my post. Sorry 'bout that.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I will always choose to watch football over anything else, so I'll watch bad bowl games. There are some that I do catch myself thinking "why am I watching this?" however.

[mUUser]

I edited my mistake in my post. Sorry 'bout that.


LOL.....everybody knew what you meant.

[GarthUte]

LOL.....everybody knew what you meant.

Just making sure. I didn't mean to cause any undue anguish.

[U-Ute]

What was with that field? I didn't watch the game but that field didn't look wet but it was a mess.

[Mormon Red Death]

Horrible weather for the sun bowl

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[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Horrible weather for the sun bowl

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I feel bad you guys didn't get your wish and would've gotten to enjoy that weather!

[Redbird]

I think Oklahoma and Alabama win tomorrow.

[DrumNFeather]

I think Oklahoma and Alabama win tomorrow.
I'm interested to see how Clemson does. I think Oklahoma wins too, but if it is a blowout, that's two straight years of an unbeaten ACC champ getting blown out. That eventually will influence the committee.

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[concerned]

I think Oklahoma and Alabama win tomorrow.

and then Alabama destroys Oklahome

[chrisrenrut]

TCU's Boykin out for the Alamo bowl after a bar fight and assaulting an officer.

[Applejack]

Kessler throws a seven yard out on fourth and ten. Game over. The socal schools are 0-2, which is great. Note we just need asu and Stanford to lose.

Why would usc at least not wait to make a hire? It's not like Helton was going anywhere. Helton is now 0-2 as the official head coach.

And where in the world do Mora to the nfl rumors come from? All that guy does is lose to teams with less talent.

This is why the Helton hire is golden for us (not to mention everyone in the Pac-12): there is a chance that Helton doesn't know what he's doing.

And Mora-to-the-NFL rumors are golden too!

[LA Ute]

TCU's Boykin out for the Alamo bowl after a bar fight and assaulting an officer.

1742

[chrisrenrut]

1742

Factually incorrect, should be 3/4 full of alcohol.

[Redbird]

Kudos to Houston. I didn't give them much of a chance, and they looked comfortable against a good FSU team.

[mUUser]

The committee got it right on Clemson and OU. These are two dang good teams.

[U-Ute]

Question of the day: how will Michigan State find a way to beat Alabama after leading for exactly 0:00 of the game?

[Redbird]

Impressive catch to set up Bama's first TD. Looked like interference, and Ridley still brought in the ball.

[Redbird]

10-0 at half. Huge pick inside the 5 for the Tide at the end of the half.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Michigan State is playing Whittingham Football tonight.

And Bama is lighting them up.

Roll Tide, Beat Clemson.

[Ma'ake]

Kudos to Houston. I didn't give them much of a chance, and they looked comfortable against a good FSU team.

When G5 teams beat a big name P5 school in a NY6 bowl, they often get a promotion. We've been there.

Houston to the Big-12, is my guess.

[GarthUte]

Tell that to boise.


Not enough TV sets in the Boise market.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Stanford looks fantastic today. It is almost a travesty they didn't play yesterday. I have to think they would have given Clemson or Alabama a better game.

[GarthUte]

I've not seen much of the 2nd half. Did Stanford take the foot off the throttle?

[Redbird]

Stanford looks fantastic today. It is almost a travesty they didn't play yesterday. I have to think they would have given Clemson or Alabama a better game.

Two losses when the top 4 featured three one-loss teams and an undefeated team lessens any travesty. Losing at northwestern is the bigger travesty.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Two losses when the top 4 featured three one-loss teams and an undefeated team lessens any travesty. Losing at northwestern is the bigger travesty.

I don't disagree, but Michigan State really backed into 3 of their wins and were very obviously overmatched vs Alabama.

They need to expand the playoff to 6 or 8 teams...

[Redbird]

I don't disagree, but Michigan State really backed into 3 of their wins and were very obviously overmatched vs Alabama.

They need to expand the playoff to 6 or 8 teams...

Stanford needed very late plays to escape Wazzou and ND. And you can't use CFP results to argue whether or not a team belonged. Sparty beat the same Iowa team that Stanford crushed, and Bama could've been just as successful against the Cardinal.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I admit I am going strictly by the eye test, but to my eye Stanford is playing some of the best football in the nation over the last 5-7 weeks. Oh well.

In the Bama-Clemson game I think we will see a completely different Bama team. IIRC Clemson has a fantastic Pass defense, significantly better than MSU. But they will probably go into Power mode and Derrick Henry them to death.

Bama has an NFL-quality Front 7, the question will br whether they can contain Deshaun Watson.

[SeattleUte]

wtf was up with that Oregon play calling at the end of regulation? Nine seconds left, 20 yards shy of FG range, and they throw a slant? I'd be out of my mind if I were a Duck fan.

[SeattleUte]

The thing that always strikes me about Patterson is he's so fat. I don't get it. I assume he was once an athlete; he must be disciplined in areas of his life. And these coaches have as a job perk unlimited access to world class trainers and workout facilities.