Hiatus in the BYU Basketball Rivalry?

[Solon]

He was outed several days ago. Too much powderkeg talk.

I don't understand the widespread accusation that Krystkowiak is frightened or scared to play the byu.
He is - in polite-ish language, to be sure - asserting that the byu team is insufferable pricks and it's not worth the aggravation to play them. I don't get the "fear" part. Calling him a "Koward" only dodges the point.

Fans of the byu have every right to be pissed - Krystko has just pissed on your name and your reputation. But calling him a Koward seems a non-sequitur to me. Just say that he's an asshole and be done with it.

Is the "fear" part the fact that he canceled the "away" part of the series instead of the "home" part? Surely that must have factored into it (i.e., next year's environment would have been more hostile towards the Utah team), but I doubt he is scared of a potential loss. Utah has had plenty of basketball losses (:sad: ).

Or are they trying to goad him into reconsidering by calling him a chicken & a coward? That only seems to work in grade school & with Marty McFly.

At any rate, I expect that this is what Krystko thinks is best for the team going forward and I think he should have the right to give it a shot.
I guess we'll see. Certainly the distraction of the week didn't help avert the egg the team laid last night vs. the Ducks.

[Scratch]

The fact that he would never have cancelled a home game has more to do with finances than anything else. Usually the buyouts for games is the same regardless of venue, so if Utah cancelled a home game it would have to pay off the 80K to BYU and also lose out on all the revenue it would stand to earn from that game. The idea with a H-H contract is that each team gets to make a bunch of money off of their home game. There will generally be a payout to the other team for the game as well (at least in football; I assume it works the same way in basketball as well but I'm not certain), but that payout is nothing compared to the revenue stream enjoyed by the home team.

[USS Utah]

I find this whole "controversy" rather humorous, certainly in the reaction of the local media. The hierarchy in this town is pretty simple: 1. Jazz/NBA, 2. College football and everything else, including college basketball, is an afterthought. The college hardwood just doesn't get the coverage, unless there is some kind of controversy, like players losing scholarships, coaches being fired, or some BYU player is having an unbelievable year creating a once on a millennia mania. After the game this year with the infamous punch, the local media strained credulity by bemoaning the fact that they had to talk about the hit instead of the actual game, as if they would have been talking about the game if not for the unfortunate incident. The reality, however, was that they were only talking about the game because of the punch.

But now, the media, which struggles even to feign an interest in local college basketball, is suddenly up in arms that this annual game they don't bother to cover, is not going to be played next year. Cry me a river.

A few years ago, one of the radio stations started dedicating one hour a week to talk college hoops. It came across as grudging, "Okay we'll give it a hour each week so we can say we cover it, but only so we can feel justified that we don't have to talk about it the rest of the week."

The game has to be played? Really? Why, so you can continue to ignore it unless something controversial happens? Like I said, cry me a river.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwheXIa8Cl0

[Ma'ake]

He was outed several days ago. Too much powderkeg talk.

Yeah, that was me. :)

[LA Ute]

Kinahan today:
(http://www.ksl.com/?sid=38204144&nid=272&fm=most_popular&s_cid=popular-2)
BYU needs to clean up image (http://www.ksl.com/?sid=38204144&nid=272&fm=most_popular&s_cid=popular-2)

I haven't read the comments but I am sure they are pretty amazing.

[U-Ute]

Kinahan today:
(http://www.ksl.com/?sid=38204144&nid=272&fm=most_popular&s_cid=popular-2)
BYU needs to clean up image (http://www.ksl.com/?sid=38204144&nid=272&fm=most_popular&s_cid=popular-2)

I haven't read the comments but I am sure they are pretty amazing.

I'm sure any comments are well reasoned and coherent in nature. Just like everything on the Internet.

[Scorcho]

I'm sure any comments are well reasoned and coherent in nature. Just like everything on the Internet.

Kinahan has admitted on the radio that he gets paid by Ksl for the number of page hits he gets per article. If he touches on a topic that both Utah and BYU fans are interested in his page hits double. This type of journalism seems on par with the Weekly World News. It's only a matter of time that we will see articles about Bat Boy sleeping with Dave Roses wife or Larry K is a distant relative of Hitler

[LA Ute]

It's only a matter of time that we will see articles about Bat Boy sleeping with Dave Roses wife or Larry K is a distant relative of Hitler

I've heard he is either a direct descendant or was cloned from tissue found in Adolf's final bunker.

[Diehard Ute]

Kinahan has admitted on the radio that he gets paid by Ksl for the number of page hits he gets per article. If he touches on a topic that both Utah and BYU fans are interested in his page hits double. This type of journalism seems on par with the Weekly World News. It's only a matter of time that we will see articles about Bat Boy sleeping with Dave Roses wife or Larry K is a distant relative of Hitler

I'm fairly certain that's how most of their staff is being paid, both at KSL and the DNews since they've combined "news rooms"

Doug Robinson wrote an entire column on Utah not being BYU's big brother.


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[concerned]

I'm fairly certain that's how most of their staff is being paid, both at KSL and the DNews since they've combined "news rooms"

Doug Robinson wrote an entire column on Utah not being BYU's big brother.


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Peggy Fletcher Stack must be the highest paid reporter in Utah. The LDS Church keeps both newspapaers afloat. The Tribune's Church related articles (90% of which are not the faith promoting variety) get by far the highest number of clicks on that site. If the LDS Church didn't exist, the Tribune would have to create it to stay alive.

[Diehard Ute]

Peggy Fletcher Stack must be the highest paid reporter in Utah. The LDS Church keeps both newspapaers afloat. The Tribune's Church related articles (90% of which are not the faith promoting variety) get by far the highest number of clicks on that site. If the LDS Church didn't exist, the Tribune would have to create it to stay alive.

But the Trib doesn't operate on the KSL/DNews model.

Of course most of the ad revenue generated by the Trib goes to the DNews now so......;)


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[LA Ute]

I've been thinking about this whole mess and here's where I am:

1. I think it was a mistake to cancel next year's game. I just do.

2. I do understand why Larry did it. One factoid: the hoops staff reviewed their last 50 OOC games for flagrant 2 fouls. 3 of the 4 committed against Utah were by BYU. I think there were better ways to address that problem but I can see why LK would say "We don't need this."

3. I'd feel better about BYU fan reactions to the cancellation if they'd recognize (a) it's only for one game and the series could easily be reinstated; (b) Emery's punch was inexcusable and dangerous and just might have warranted more than a one-game suspension; and (c) maybe, just maybe, they have a problem with player behavior.

4. Ute fans who think we should never play BYU again need to take a deep breath and get over this.

(Maybe those on other boards who pay close attention to my posts on rivalry subjects will enjoy discussing these conclusions among themselves.)

[Diehard Ute]

I've been thinking about this whole mess and here's where I am:

1. I think it was a mistake to cancel next year's game. I just do.

2. I do understand why Larry did it. One factoid: the hoops staff reviewed their last 50 OOC games for flagrant 2 fouls. 3 of the 4 committed against Utah were by BYU. I think there were better ways to address that problem but I can see why LK would say "We don't need this."

3. I'd feel better about BYU fan reactions to the cancellation if they'd recognize (a) it's only for one game and the series could easily be reinstated; (b) Emery's punch was inexcusable and dangerous and just might have warranted more than a one-game suspension; and (c) maybe, just maybe, they have a problem with player behavior.

4. Ute fans who think we should never play BYU again need to take a deep breath and get over this.

(Maybe those on other boards who pay close attention to my posts on rivalry subjects will enjoy discussing these conclusions among themselves.)


For me it's just another game. The fun that was there 10 years ago is long dead.

The game in all sports felt forced to me. Like it was played because we had some obligation, not because it was helpful to the U.

Maybe my lack of culture ties to the school and their fans makes it easier for me.


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[Utebiquitous]

LA,
You and I have talked about this and I'll add to your list or add an appendage to #3. The Y needs to learn how to really apologize - like Christians/like real men. A press release or Twitter apology does not cut it. It needed to happen in person. It's shameful that all levels of BYU - coach/AD/Administration - time and time again let this kind of behavior go without properly dealing with it. I guess the persecution mentality is so alive and well down there that they simply feel justified in bad behavior.

[Diehard Ute]

LA,
You and I have talked about this and I'll add to your list or add an appendage to #3. The Y needs to learn how to really apologize - like Christians/like real men. A press release or Twitter apology does not cut it. It needed to happen in person. It's shameful that all levels of BYU - coach/AD/Administration - time and time again let this kind of behavior go without properly dealing with it. I guess the persecution mentality is so alive and well down there that they simply feel justified in bad behavior.

And beyond that, suddenly releasing the 'cancellation' 3 weeks after all this happened.

There's an issue down there, and to me the way they handled this just goes right back to the way any 'controversy' was handled recently.


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[Brian]

LA,
You and I have talked about this and I'll add to your list or add an appendage to #3. The Y needs to learn how to really apologize - like Christians/like real men. A press release or Twitter apology does not cut it. It needed to happen in person. It's shameful that all levels of BYU - coach/AD/Administration - time and time again let this kind of behavior go without properly dealing with it. I guess the persecution mentality is so alive and well down there that they simply feel justified in bad behavior.

To paraphrase Dallin Oaks, former president of the BYU, the church doesn't seek or offer apologies.
The later part of that phrase has really taken hold down in provo.

[LA Ute]

LA,
You and I have talked about this and I'll add to your list or add an appendage to #3. The Y needs to learn how to really apologize - like Christians/like real men. A press release or Twitter apology does not cut it. It needed to happen in person. It's shameful that all levels of BYU - coach/AD/Administration - time and time again let this kind of behavior go without properly dealing with it. I guess the persecution mentality is so alive and well down there that they simply feel justified in bad behavior.

Yeah, you and I disagree slightly. I thought the press release apology was fine. Would it have been better in person? Absolutely. That doesn't seem to be what BYU is doing these days, however.


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[SeattleUte]

Blah. Let it go. Why care?

[SeattleUte]

I've been thinking about this whole mess and here's where I am:

1. I think it was a mistake to cancel next year's game. I just do.

2. I do understand why Larry did it. One factoid: the hoops staff reviewed their last 50 OOC games for flagrant 2 fouls. 3 of the 4 committed against Utah were by BYU. I think there were better ways to address that problem but I can see why LK would say "We don't need this."

3. I'd feel better about BYU fan reactions to the cancellation if they'd recognize (a) it's only for one game and the series could easily be reinstated; (b) Emery's punch was inexcusable and dangerous and just might have warranted more than a one-game suspension; and (c) maybe, just maybe, they have a problem with player behavior.

4. Ute fans who think we should never play BYU again need to take a deep breath and get over this.

(Maybe those on other boards who pay close attention to my posts on rivalry subjects will enjoy discussing these conclusions among themselves.)

It's not a mess. Very few people care about this or are paying any attention any longer.

[LA Ute]

Blah. Let it go. Why care?

You are right. I was simply reminded of it by some posts I happened to see at CS and on Facebook. I'm done with it now.


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[Diehard Ute]

Ah, the Utah legislature.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/3557683-155/legislature-will-audit-university-of-utah


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Ah, the Utah legislature.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/3557683-155/legislature-will-audit-university-of-utah


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What percentage of actual Mormon church members in the state of Utah are actually 'zoobs', the Truest and the Bluest of the True BYU-Blue Mormons? The true number has to be well under 1/4 of those who actually attended and/or root for The Why. So perhaps 5-10% of the state?

Then why does it seen the Utah State legislature is 87% zoobs? Those bastages are GREATLY over-represented in that state!!

[Diehard Ute]

What percentage of actual Mormon church members in the state of Utah are actually 'zoobs', the Truest and the Bluest of the True BYU-Blue Mormons? The true number has to be well under 1/4 of those who actually attended and/or root for The Why. So perhaps 5-10% of the state?

Then why does it seen the Utah State legislature is 87% zoobs? Those bastages are GREATLY over-represented in that state!!

The same reason that Utah is roughly 60% LDS, 50% female yet the legislature is 90% LDS males.




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[concerned]

The irony about the rivalry getting too intense? Greg Hughes was the legislator who got in a fist fight in the Zion's Bank box a couple of years ago with a drunken Ute fan. Campus security escorted Hughes out to protect his privacy.

[UtahsMrSports]

I get a kick out of Dan Mccay threatening to get utah athletics shut down. What an ego. What a hack.

In my opinion, they should drop BYU completely after this audit. Schedule other in state games, but get rid of the Y.

[Ma'ake]

It's a sad reminder that we live in a state steered by a bunch of Donald Trump wannabes.

Smug that they come off as reasonable, wise, moderate visionaries - in the context of Cliven Bundy and his boys - and not content in raking the Utah public in their prison location project (defying strong polling against the move)... they have to wander into oversight over college sports.

Utah pulled in $56M, spent $50M. Damn. Can't get 'em for financial mismanagement. Can't put the microscope on Utah-BYU, because it would smack of the same tyranny and micromanaging they accuse Obama of... so they'll bring an audit, which excludes BYU.

Somebody like SU should prepare litigation to sue the State if they try to mandate Utah vs BYU, on grounds of separation of Church and State. Take it all the way to the Supreme Court, if need be.

It will never come to that, as bullies always cave like a cheap card table.

[jrj84105]

It's time we start playing the same kind of shell games with our finances that BYU does. Who has experience with starting a 501c3? The roof project was the proof of principle that the fanbase can rally to promote and carry out fundraising for improvements outside the athletic department or Crimson club. All our individual private donations should remain private and outside the purview of disclosure. if somebody has the know how to write the letters of incorporation and file the IRS form, there will be no problem covering the fees.

[LA Ute]

Looks like they are taking the position that this audit is not related to the game cancellation. They simply got curious about how university intercollegiate athletics funds flow in the State and decided to start their audits with Utah. Yeah, right. This is a stupid and destructive thing to do. It's almost unbelievable.


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[Diehard Ute]

Looks like they are taking the position that this audit is not related to the game cancellation. They simply got curious about how university intercollegiate athletics funds flow in the State and decided to start their audits with Utah. Yeah, right. This is a stupid and destructive thing to do. It's almost unbelievable.


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They did a poor job thinly veiling it, given one legislator commented he would like to eliminate athletics at Utah.

It's rather funny the same legislature that's gifting tax money to USU and WSU athletics is auditing Utah athletics....in a year where the U had stellar books.


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[concerned]

Looks like they are taking the position that this audit is not related to the game cancellation. They simply got curious about how university intercollegiate athletics funds flow in the State and decided to start their audits with Utah. Yeah, right. This is a stupid and destructive thing to do. It's almost unbelievable.


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I can guarantee you that this is retaliation. Simple. And it's going to work utah going to put the game back on next year.

[NorthwestUteFan]

If they put the game back on things will be ugly. Hopefully Eric Mika will have a great game against his former team.

[concerned]

I can guarantee you that this is retaliation. Simple. And it's going to work utah going to put the game back on next year.

I meant 2017 not 2016.

[UTEopia]

I hope the game does not go on the schedule. Instead, I would play 1 home game and 1 away game every year and rotate the games amongst USU, Weber, UVU and SUU. I would never schedule BYU basketball again.

[LA Ute]

I can guarantee you that this is retaliation. Simple. And it's going to work utah going to put the game back on next year.

What a disgrace.


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[SeattleUte]

Looks like they are taking the position that this audit is not related to the game cancellation. They simply got curious about how university intercollegiate athletics funds flow in the State and decided to start their audits with Utah. Yeah, right. This is a stupid and destructive thing to do. It's almost unbelievable.


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LA, You're not making sense on more than one level.

How can you oppose an audit? Audits are good things. It's like opposing apple pie. I'm not scared. Also, I'm happy to trade an audit for never playing BYU again. We hate BYU, right? Which is why we never want to play them again.

[LA Ute]

LA, You're not making sense on more than one level.

How can you oppose an audit? Audits are good things. It's like opposing apple pie. I'm not scared. Also, I'm happy to trade an audit for never playing BYU again. We hate BYU, right? Which is why we never want to play them again.

You shouldn't post late at night.


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[Ma'ake]

The audit will be go off fine, Dr. Pershing & the BYU president will have some worthy material to encourage sportsmanship, Rose and Holmoe will get it that we're serious about not needing to deal with the over the top hack dance - even if we have to subject ourselves to idiotic audits from the Legislature.

But more than anything else, Utah vs BYU in basketball in Provo will get calibrated to *odd* years, just like in football.

"Provo" and "Odd" are synonyms. The rest of the country will get it, even if most of the clowns we associate won't.

[NorthwestUteFan]

You shouldn't post late at night.


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Everything should be in order with the finances so the outcome should be positive. In fact I think of would be HILARIOUS if they decided the state should reimburse Krystkowiak's $80k donation to the byu athletic department

The demand for the audit, on the other hand, was intended to be retribution by people who intentionally wield their power as a cudgel. They will come out looking bad in this situation, and it could torpedo Greg Hughes' designs on being elected Governor.

In the end I hope we have more reasons to keep the Bob Jones University of the West off the schedule forever.

[LA Ute]

Everything should be in order with the finances so the outcome should be positive. In fact I think of would be HILARIOUS if they decided the state should reimburse Krystkowiak's $80k donation to the byu athletic department

The demand for the audit, on the other hand, was intended to be retribution by people who intentionally wield their power as a cudgel.They will come out looking bad in this situation, and it could torpedo Greg Hughes' designs on being elected Governor.

This is the point. Audits can be benign, but a first-ever, non-routine audit like this one is anything but benign. They're using the power of the state government to intimidate. Over a basketball game. It is disgusting.


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[SeattleUte]

This is the point. Audits can be benign, but a first-ever, non-routine audit like this one is anything but benign. They're using the power of the state government to intimidate. Over a basketball game. It is disgusting.


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I have been a critic of Chris Hill at times (not for cancelling or unwillingness to schedule games with BYU, however). But I will be the most shocked person of all if he is running graft.

It's interesting that as we have fairly quickly integrated into the Pac 12 family and become a distinct and cohesive and greatly appreciated part of the whole, we see that our fit is naturally there, and not as BYU's keeper. It's one of those things that just feels so; you know it to be true. Seriously, I've always felt the natural thing to do is put BYU in our past. The Pac 12 is our natural family.

[NorthwestUteFan]

This is the point. Audits can be benign, but a first-ever, non-routine audit like this one is anything but benign. They're using the power of the state government to intimidate. Over a basketball game. It is disgusting.


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Agreed. And this is why they need to make a bold statement with the audit results.

Conversely they could do it the way the LDS church does, and have a spokesman stand up in the next legislative session and say, "An audit was accomplished and everything is in order...", but never allow any actual information to get out.

[U-Ute]

I wonder how this "revenge audit" is playing in the halls of the B12 schools.

[SeattleUte]

I wonder how this "revenge audit" is playing in the halls of the B12 schools.

BYU is not a serious candidate for the B12.

[mUUser]

This is the point. Audits can be benign, but a first-ever, non-routine audit like this one is anything but benign. They're using the power of the state government to intimidate. Over a basketball game. It is disgusting.


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This is exactly the kind of thing that puts a pit in my gut about our move back. My goal is to get above the daily fray of church and state. Probably impossible.


I have been a critic of Chris Hill at times (not for cancelling or unwillingness to schedule games with BYU, however). But I will be the most shocked person of all if he is running graft.

It's interesting that as we have fairly quickly integrated into the Pac 12 family and become a distinct and cohesive and greatly appreciated part of the whole, we see that our fit is naturally there, and not as BYU's keeper. It's one of those things that just feels so; you know it to be true. Seriously, I've always felt the natural thing to do is put BYU in our past. The Pac 12 is our natural family.


I get the sense BYU nation has fully embraced its role as little brother. Just seem to be pissed off about anything and everything Ute related.

[LA Ute]

The interesting and undeniable fact here is that if BYU told us they were cancelling a game with us, we'd say, "OK, fine." THat they are having fits about our decision speaks volumes, as SU has been known to say.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

I get a kick out of Dan Mccay threatening to get utah athletics shut down. What an ego. What a hack.

In my opinion, they should drop BYU completely after this audit. Schedule other in state games, but get rid of the Y.

Says the guy accusing Hill and Coach K of being too arrogant.


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[chrisrenrut]

The interesting and undeniable fact here is that if BYU told us they were cancelling a game with us, we'd say, "OK, fine." THat they are having fits about our decision speaks volumes, as SU has been known to say.

Depends on who you mean by "we". The athletic department- yes (Chris Hill would not tweet about it like a jilted teenager). Most on this board- yes. There would probably be a vocal minority that would see it as a huge insult and would complain loud and long about it.

[wally]

LOL! Greg Hughes is creative! I agree with SU that an audit is not a big deal, and is actually a good thing. Think about it this way, won't you all be glad to know that your donations to University Athletics are being treated like sacred funds? In fact, I am fairly certain that all state agencies are required to hire an outside auditor annually anyway, so this should be just a little more hassle than the usual routine.

[LA Ute]

LOL! Greg Hughes is creative! I agree with SU that an audit is not a big deal, and is actually a good thing. Think about it this way, won't you all be glad to know that your donations to University Athletics are being treated like sacred funds? In fact, I am fairly certain that all state agencies are required to hire an outside auditor annually anyway, so this should be just a little more hassle than the usual routine.

No athletic department has been audited this way, ever. I am worried about what political games will be played with the results.

[U-Ute]

I love the people on Twitter who are complaining that state funds are being used to buy out the contract since K is paid by the state.

1791

[chrisrenrut]

I love the people on Twitter who are complaining that state funds are being used to buy out the contract since K is paid by the state.

1791

Uh oh, my wife works for the state. I guess we better be careful what we buy with her paycheck.

[NorthwestUteFan]

State funds were used for the buyout in the same way that portions of the glass of water you drank last night once got filtered through the kidneys and got pissed out by the homeless person whose pleas for help you ignored last week.

[chrisrenrut]

State funds were used for the buyout in the same way that portions of the glass of water you drank last night once got filtered through the kidneys and got pissed out by the homeless person whose pleas for help you ignored last week.

Wow, I'm trying to follow this allegory:

Glass of Water= $80,000 Larry K paid
Kidneys= State of Utah
Homeless Person= tax payers?
Pleas you ignored= ?

[LA Ute]

Wow, I'm trying to follow this allegory:

Glass of Water= $80,000 Larry K paid
Kidneys= State of Utah
Homeless Person= tax payers?
Pleas you ignored= ?

NWUF is an architect. He thinks this way:

1792

It's not his fault.

[Scratch]

I suppose the argument could be made that Hill secretly agreed to have Krystko pay the 80K, and then Hill will make up for it in his next contract. It would be a major stretch, but that's the only way you could really even come close to making the argument.

[concerned]

I suppose the argument could be made that Hill secretly agreed to have Krystko pay the 80K, and then Hill will make up for it in his next contract. It would be a major stretch, but that's the only way you could really even come close to making the argument.


i read somewhere that LK secured a $50K bonus yesterday, because we are guaranteed to finish above .500 in conference play. Larry could apply that. i assume that they agreed to reduce Larry's compensation by 80K so that Larry paid with pre-tax dollars. I can't imagine he wrote a check for 80K, and that the actual payment came from the U not Larry personally, but maybe it did to avoid any kind of an accounting issue.

[Diehard Ute]

Word is Larry is paying in installments and already paid one.

I work with several BYU fans. One decided last night he should tell me how cowardly and hypocritical Larry is for cancelling the game. I was shocked at how upset he still was.

Then I realized when you play in a one to two bid league, you need every big name game you can get.

Also funny was another BYU fan telling us the bowl win was ugly and he'd rather lose pretty. Not kidding.


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[Irving Washington]

No athletic department has been audited this way, ever. I am worried about what political games will be played with the results.

You can be assured that the Legislative Auditor will manufacture something. It will be relatively minor, if the athletic department's books are good. The Legislative Auditor's office is not independent. It knows Greg Hughes wants something.

[concerned]

Word is Larry is paying in installments and already paid one.

I work with several BYU fans. One decided last night he should tell me how cowardly and hypocritical Larry is for cancelling the game. I was shocked at how upset he still was.

Then I realized when you play in a one to two bid league, you need every big name game you can get.

Also funny was another BYU fan telling us the bowl win was ugly and he'd rather lose pretty. Not kidding.


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I was listening to DJ and PK on the way this morning, and they were saying that the U did this not because of player safety or because we were pissed at Emery and Rose's response, but because we want to hurt the Y and wont admit it. They cant get any big time program to come to Provo, and all we do is improve their RPI by playing them there. They said we just want to bury them because we are competing for recruits, and if we just admitted the real reason, they would be fine with that.

Kragthrope today took LK at his word; i do too. He overreacted, but the stated reason is the real reason. I personally would like to bury them, and do it for the other reason.

[Solon]

Word is Larry is paying in installments and already paid one.

I work with several BYU fans. One decided last night he should tell me how cowardly and hypocritical Larry is for cancelling the game. I was shocked at how upset he still was.

Then I realized when you play in a one to two bid league, you need every big name game you can get.

Also funny was another BYU fan telling us the bowl win was ugly and he'd rather lose pretty. Not kidding.


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The hypocrite argument is the one that gets me - the one where they say Larry was a fighter as a player and so now he can't take a high-horse position against violence & fighting as a coach.
I would like to think that all of us have grown up a little bit over the years.

[SeattleUte]

Word is Larry is paying in installments and already paid one.

I work with several BYU fans. One decided last night he should tell me how cowardly and hypocritical Larry is for cancelling the game. I was shocked at how upset he still was.

Then I realized when you play in a one to two bid league, you need every big name game you can get.

Also funny was another BYU fan telling us the bowl win was ugly and he'd rather lose pretty. Not kidding.


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This just supports Larry's judgment. Larry comes to Utah as a neutral with respect to the rivalry--it means practically nothing to him. After a few years he sees it's a toxic soup that has no upside for the Utes and involves a lot of Mickey Mouse crap. We should trust his insight and support this.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

It's one of those things that just feels so; you know it to be true.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/9.8?lang=eng

[LA Ute]

Also funny was another BYU fan telling us the bowl win was ugly and he'd rather lose pretty. Not kidding.

That's a Poppinga Victory. Nobody does them better than BYU, which, after all, invented the concept.

[Diehard Ute]

I was listening to DJ and PK on the way this morning, and they were saying that the U did this not because of player safety or because we were pissed at Emery and Rose's response, but because we want to hurt the Y and wont admit it. They cant get any big time program to come to Provo, and all we do is improve their RPI by playing them there. They said we just want to bury them because we are competing for recruits, and if we just admitted the real reason, they would be fine with that.

Kragthrope today took LK at his word; i do too. He overreacted, but the stated reason is the real reason. I personally would like to bury them, and do it for the other reason.

I take Larry at is word too. Larry isn't the kind of guy to hide his true feelings. And he has no reason to. The fact that Holmoe and Rose say on the whole thing for a month and then went crying to the media speaks volumes as well.

I've heard people bring up Marshall Henderson. Which cracks me up. Entirely different coaching staff, it's not even a comparison.



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[NorthwestUteFan]

Wow, I'm trying to follow this allegory:

Glass of Water= $80,000 Larry K paid
Kidneys= State of Utah
Homeless Person= tax payers?
Pleas you ignored= ?
You are working way too hard at this.

Money is like water, in that every dollar in Krystko's wallet at one time was touched by the State. But that doesn't necessarily mean it was owned by the State for its end purpose (but rather it merely passed through the state).

There is a finite quantity of water molecules on this earth and it gets cycled through the system. At one point every molecule of water has (theoretically) run through somebody's kidneys.

Also people who Twitter-complain the way U-Ute describes are often the type who justify not giving money to help homeless people because they already pay tithing.

[NorthwestUteFan]

NWUF is an architect. He thinks this way:

1792

It's not his fault.
Don't worry your pretty little head over the process, just sit back and appreciate the final product.

[Diehard Ute]

You are working way too hard at this.

Money is like water, in that every dollar in Krystko's wallet at one time was touched by the State. But that doesn't necessarily mean it was owned by the State for its end purpose (but rather it merely passed through the state).

There is a finite quantity of water molecules on this earth and it gets cycled through the system. At one point every molecule of water has (theoretically) run through somebody's kidneys.

Also people who Twitter-complain the way U-Ute describes are often the type who justify not giving money to help homeless people because they already pay tithing.

Well you should never give money to panhandlers. Most aren't homeless. Money should always be given through reputable organizations who help the homeless.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Well you should never give money to panhandlers. Most aren't homeless. Money should always be given through reputable organizations who help the homeless.


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I was trying to pick the least palatable analogy. I should have stuck with a dog's kidneys.

[chrisrenrut]

I think these zoob legislators were emboldened by the fact that most of the public and local media agreed with them that cancelling next year's game was a mistake. But it looks like they overestimated the media's sentiment, and took things too far. Kragthorpe and Bagley are two examples of media who don't seem to agree that the audit is appropriate.

1793

[jrj84105]

I was listening to DJ and PK on the way this morning, and they were saying that the U did this not because of player safety or because we were pissed at Emery and Rose's response, but because we want to hurt the Y and wont admit it. They cant get any big time program to come to Provo, and all we do is improve their RPI by playing them there. They said we just want to bury them because we are competing for recruits, and if we just admitted the real reason, they would be fine with that.

Kragthrope today took LK at his word; i do too. He overreacted, but the stated reason is the real reason. I personally would like to bury them, and do it for the other reason.
Absolutely. And if they want to escalate the matter, the U can also. They sit at the minimum 5 home games required of FBS home teams in 2017. The impact of canceling one basketball game is nothing compared to the impact of cancelling the football game in 2017. That is what this is all about. They've put themselves in a position where $1M can put their football program out of NCAA compliance and force them back into whatever conference will take them on whatever terms that conference dictates. Utah and Boise State have BYU by balls, and they know it. We can, and should, un-schedule them into oblivion.

[LA Ute]

It is really interesting, to use a softer word, to watch those Utah legislators insulting everyone's intelligence by claiming that the audit has nothing to do with the rivalry or with the cancellation of the basketball game. Are their noses growing while they say these things?

[UTEopia]

I am sure that the audit will show something. They always do. It will be minor in the context of a $50 mil budget, but it will be trumpeted as if Hill has been sending money to the Cayman Islands. For me, the most annoying part of the whole thing is that it keeps the cancellation of the basketball game in the media.

I wonder if Hill and Holmoe have spoken since this all came about. I can't imagine Hill has much interest in speaking with him. I know I wouldn't if I were Hill.

I listened to PK and DJ a little this morning and they had an interesting take on a question many of us have asked ourselves over the years - what does Utah get out of playing Weber, USU, SUU? The answer they gave made some sense - political allies. My guess is that the audit would still have been ordered, but what if Utah had been able to get out ahead on this and have games scheduled with USU, Weber, SUU? My feeling has always been that if you are going to play a Div 1AA school, why not play Weber and SUU most of the time to help their budgets. I feel the same way about USU. Why play SJSU when you already play in NorCal every other year? Why play No. Illinois at all?

[concerned]

I am sure that the audit will show something. They always do. It will be minor in the context of a $50 mil budget, but it will be trumpeted as if Hill has been sending money to the Cayman Islands. For me, the most annoying part of the whole thing is that it keeps the cancellation of the basketball game in the media.

I wonder if Hill and Holmoe have spoken since this all came about. I can't imagine Hill has much interest in speaking with him. I know I wouldn't if I were Hill.

I listened to PK and DJ a little this morning and they had an interesting take on a question many of us have asked ourselves over the years - what does Utah get out of playing Weber, USU, SUU? The answer they gave made some sense - political allies. My guess is that the audit would still have been ordered, but what if Utah had been able to get out ahead on this and have games scheduled with USU, Weber, SUU? My feeling has always been that if you are going to play a Div 1AA school, why not play Weber and SUU most of the time to help their budgets. I feel the same way about USU. Why play SJSU when you already play in NorCal every other year? Why play No. Illinois at all?


It was interesting to hear McCay basically say this is a "decision making" audit, not a financial audit. They don't like the decision making re scheduling, and think the u should schedule for the collective good of all Utah schools, public and private, even if it is not necessarily in the U's interest, and affect the U's ability to compete with other PAC 12 schools. The audit is going to come up with all the financial reasons that we should schedule the in state schools--how much money each makes on the home games, etc.

The audit is going to try to handcuff the U's decision making, even though they say they don't want to get into the middle of scheduling.

BTW, I liked how McCay went out of his way to declare himself an Aggie. Didn't mention that he works for the Church, and I will bet his kids go to BYU. Maybe he is not carrying the Y's water, but I would be surprised.

[sancho]

It was interesting to hear McCay basically say this is a "decision making" audit, not a financial audit.

Who is qualified to make a "decision making" audit of an athletic department? A group of ADs? Certainly not a group of accountants.

[Scratch]

Who is qualified to make a "decision making" audit of an athletic department? A group of ADs? Certainly not a group of accountants.


My guess is it's about the financial consequences of certain decisions, but if that's true then the question is who frames the questions that are to be analyzed.

[NorthwestUteFan]

My guess is it's about the financial consequences of certain decisions, but if that's true then the question is who frames the questions that are to be analyzed.
This is exact my true.

My hope is the audit results will be able to show that the best thing for the state of Utah is for the Utes to play more games with local state schools, and fewer games with local private schools.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

The wild emotional over reactions by both groups is very enjoyable to watch play out.

[sancho]

The wild emotional over reactions by both groups is very enjoyable to watch play out.

By both groups, you mean the Utah legislature and Cougarboard? Or is it the legislature and the media?

[LA Ute]

I listened to PK and DJ a little this morning and they had an interesting take on a question many of us have asked ourselves over the years - what does Utah get out of playing Weber, USU, SUU? The answer they gave made some sense - political allies. My guess is that the audit would still have been ordered, but what if Utah had been able to get out ahead on this and have games scheduled with USU, Weber, SUU? My feeling has always been that if you are going to play a Div 1AA school, why not play Weber and SUU most of the time to help their budgets. I feel the same way about USU. Why play SJSU when you already play in NorCal every other year? Why play No. Illinois at all?

These are very persuasive points.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

By both groups, you mean the Utah legislature and Cougarboard? Or is it the legislature and the media?

BYU fans to the cancelation and Utah fans to the audit.

[concerned]

Somebody tweeted the the Legislature will give away this shirt upon completion of the audit. Could be Whit's catch phrase, like Bronco's fully invested.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cb6impOUkAA4uw_.png

[Jarid in Cedar]

The wild emotional over reactions by both groups is very enjoyable to watch play out.

Yep. The ability of both parties to socially engineer persecution is dumbfoundingly amazing.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

My guess is it's about the financial consequences of certain decisions, but if that's true then the question is who frames the questions that are to be analyzed.

How great will it be when the results show that it actually costs the U $X to play a school like BYU on a yearly basis and doesn't make dollar sense to keep it on the schedule.


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[LA Ute]

The wild emotional over reactions by both groups is very enjoyable to watch play out.

I think the legislators making this happen look like idiots. What are BYU fans doing -- applauding this visionary and statesmanlike decision by the Legislature?

[DrumNFeather]

Yep. The ability of both parties to socially engineer persecution is dumbfoundingly amazing.

Does anyone on the Utah side of things really see this as persecution? Most of what I've seen is just people making fun of the idea that an audit of this kind even has legs in the first place.

[SeattleUte]

Where is the ACLU in this? Asleep at the wheel? Salt Lake is the Yankee Stadium of ACLU litigation. They need to have their best and brightest there.

[LA Ute]

Does anyone on the Utah side of things really see this as persecution? Most of what I've seen is just people making fun of the idea that an audit of this kind even has legs in the first place.

There's no persecution, just idiocy. My non-LDS, non-Utah fans here in L.A. think this is pretty funny and are assuming the legislators are getting involved because they are LDS. In response all I can do is shrug and say "This is what happens with our rivalry." It's embarrassing, frankly.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Does anyone on the Utah side of things really see this as persecution? Most of what I've seen is just people making fun of the idea that an audit of this kind even has legs in the first place.


Reading the threads on UteZone and a few posts here suggest that a vocal group of fans feel like they are under siege from the legislature. And that the legislature is going to wield their unrighteous dominion on the university, if they don't get their way.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I am sure that the audit will show something. They always do. It will be minor in the context of a $50 mil budget, but it will be trumpeted as if Hill has been sending money to the Cayman Islands. For me, the most annoying part of the whole thing is that it keeps the cancellation of the basketball game in the media.

I wonder if Hill and Holmoe have spoken since this all came about. I can't imagine Hill has much interest in speaking with him. I know I wouldn't if I were Hill.

I listened to PK and DJ a little this morning and they had an interesting take on a question many of us have asked ourselves over the years - what does Utah get out of playing Weber, USU, SUU? The answer they gave made some sense - political allies. My guess is that the audit would still have been ordered, but what if Utah had been able to get out ahead on this and have games scheduled with USU, Weber, SUU? My feeling has always been that if you are going to play a Div 1AA school, why not play Weber and SUU most of the time to help their budgets. I feel the same way about USU. Why play SJSU when you already play in NorCal every other year? Why play No. Illinois at all?


I agree with you on SUU and Weber in football. If we are going to schedule a FCS school, it should be from instate a majority of the time. As far as the others instead of USU, just to add some variety to the schedule from time to time. Look at 2013, our OOC was Weber State, USU, and BYU. If you have Weber/SUU and USU on the schedule most years, that just gets a little monotonous

[DrumNFeather]

I agree with you on SUU and Weber in football. If we are going to schedule a FCS school, it should be from instate a majority of the time. As far as the others instead of USU, just to add some variety to the schedule from time to time. Look at 2013, our OOC was Weber State, USU, and BYU. If you have Weber/SUU and USU on the schedule most years, that just gets a little monotonous

Wasn't Westminster rumored on the hoops schedule for this year? I think that'd be a fun one, if even for an exhibition, or one of those bye games during the Pac 12 slate.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Does anyone on the Utah side of things really see this as persecution? Most of what I've seen is just people making fun of the idea that an audit of this kind even has legs in the first place.


Where is the ACLU in this? Asleep at the wheel? Salt Lake is the Yankee Stadium of ACLU litigation. They need to have their best and brightest there.

No most people call for the ACLU to be getting involved over nothing.

[Utebiquitous]

Just amazing to hear a state legislator include a private entity in the conversation of a performance audit. Regardless of money made or lost, forcing a public institution's hand to play or not play a private institution is completely outside the purview. I get the public institutions and if it results in Utah playing USU, UVU, SUU and Weber St. more I'll be happy about it. I do agree with the point that you don't want too many - especially on the football schedule.

As an example, I'd love to see us alternate playing USU and BYU in football - one of them on the schedule every year in a home-and-home scenario. If every couple of years Weber or SUU could appear as an FCS sacrificial lamb on the home schedule, I'm for it.

On the basketball front, two for one scenarios with BYU and USU should be the new norm with games against them annually. SUU, Weber and UVU should alternate on the home schedule every year. BYU won't like the two for one but that's what I'd offer them to continue the rivalry annually. Otherwise, follow a football scenario where you go home and home in a four-year span (either consecutive or alternating years).

Other thoughts? I know I'm just spit-balling but the above seems reasonable to me.

[LA Ute]

Does anyone on the Utah side of things really see this as persecution?

Jackassery.

[chrisrenrut]

Just amazing to hear a state legislator include a private entity in the conversation of a performance audit. Regardless of money made or lost, forcing a public institution's hand to play or not play a private institution is completely outside the purview. I get the public institutions and if it results in Utah playing USU, UVU, SUU and Weber St. more I'll be happy about it. I do agree with the point that you don't want too many - especially on the football schedule.

As an example, I'd love to see us alternate playing USU and BYU in football - one of them on the schedule every year in a home-and-home scenario. If every couple of years Weber or SUU could appear as an FCS sacrificial lamb on the home schedule, I'm for it.

On the basketball front, two for one scenarios with BYU and USU should be the new norm with games against them annually. SUU, Weber and UVU should alternate on the home schedule every year. BYU won't like the two for one but that's what I'd offer them to continue the rivalry annually. Otherwise, follow a football scenario where you go home and home in a four-year span (either consecutive or alternating years).

Other thoughts? I know I'm just spit-balling but the above seems reasonable to me.

I like your line of thinking. I miss playing USU and Weber, but we can't saturate our schedules with them. This would be a good compromise.

[UBlender]

Putting on my auditor pants--which are my only pair of pants, actually--I see almost no way that this audit can be conducted without a very high risk of lack of independence. After all of the posturing going on (and to satisfy the BYU fans in the legislature) the audit group can't possibly come away from this audit saying everything is fine. The auditors will be strongly influenced to find something to justify this whole dog and pony show, even if it is simply making a bigger deal out of some relatively minor exceptions.

It reminds of an audit I did several years ago when I was in public accounting. At the beginning of the audit, a board member of this small non-profit organization basically told the audit team that they were looking for some justification to get rid of their controller and it was strongly implied that if we didn't provide them sufficient ammunition they would shortly kick us to the curb and engage another auditor for their next go round. Once that cat is out of the bag it's almost impossible to perform the audit completely independent. (Incidentally, we all thought the controller of this organization did a great job and the board member's conflict with her likely had nothing to do with job performance. We gave them no basis for terminating their controller, but they went ahead and forced her out anyway).

[Diehard Ute]

Reading the threads on UteZone and a few posts here suggest that a vocal group of fans feel like they are under siege from the legislature. And that the legislature is going to wield their unrighteous dominion on the university, if they don't get their way.

Well McCay did say he would shut Utah athletics down if he found athletics was overrunning the University.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

The worst possible outcome from all this crap would be losing Krystkowiak in one way or another.

Conversely that is a byu fan's wettest of the wet dreams.

[LA Ute]

The worst possible outcome from all this crap would be losing Krystkowiak in one way or another.

Conversely that is a byu fan's wettest of the wet dreams.

I am a little worried about it. Why put up with this sort of nonsense?


Well McCay did say he would shut Utah athletics down if he found athletics was overrunning the University.

I wonder how exactly he or the Legislature would go about doing that?

[SeattleUte]

lol! I agree. If athletics is "overrunning the University" it should be shut down.

[NorthwestUteFan]

lol! I agree. If athletics is "overrunning the University" it should be shut down.
You mean you don't want to be Boise State?

[NorthwestUteFan]

I am a little worried about it. Why put up with this sort of nonsense?



I wonder how exactly he or the Legislature would go about doing that?
I agree it is crazy. What can be done about garbage like this? You can't say "Vote the bums out of office!" when they win their seats with over 70% of the vote (or run unopposed).

The ethics probes won't do anything as Greg Hughes was already 'cleared of any wrongdoing' a few years ago after he gave $50k+ in bribes to other legislators to change their votes on a charter school bill. (side note: if antics like those are acceptable, then how does the Utah legislature define the word 'ethics'? )

[Diehard Ute]

I agree it is crazy. What can be done about garbage like this? You can't say "Vote the bums out of office!" when they win their seats with over 70% of the vote (or run unopposed).

The ethics probes won't do anything as Greg Hughes was already 'cleared of any wrongdoing' a few years ago after he gave $50k+ in bribes to other legislators to change their votes on a charter school bill. (side note: if antics like those are acceptable, then how does the Utah legislature define the word 'ethics'? )

They don't. They've repeatedly refused to pass ethics rules for themselves. And they never apply the rules they pass for regular government employees to themselves.


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[Diehard Ute]

I am a little worried about it. Why put up with this sort of nonsense?



I wonder how exactly he or the Legislature would go about doing that?

They could do it, but I don't know that people like McCay are smart enough to realize how beneficial athletics association with the PAC-12 is for academics and research.

The ignorance of our elected officials is never to be underestimated.


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[UTEopia]

One negative that could come out of the audit is that the Legislature could say that a school like Utah, that receives so much from the PAC 12, should not be allowed to collect student fees. That would effectively reduce the budget by about $8 mil and put the Utes much further behind the other PAC 12 schools that receive much more money from non-television media rights, ticket sales and donors.

The Legislature could easily sell this to the public as a means of reducing the cost of attendance for other students.

[Diehard Ute]

One negative that could come out of the audit is that the Legislature could say that a school like Utah, that receives so much from the PAC 12, should not be allowed to collect student fees. That would effectively reduce the budget by about $8 mil and put the Utes much further behind the other PAC 12 schools that receive much more money from non-television media rights, ticket sales and donors.

The Legislature could easily sell this to the public as a means of reducing the cost of attendance for other students.

Of course in exchange free attendance for students goes bye bye. Which would anger many students.

Also would mean athletics support of student activities likely stops.


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[UTEopia]

Of course in exchange free attendance for students goes bye bye. Which would anger many students.

Also would mean athletics support of student activities likely stops.


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I'm not sure what student activities are financially supported by the AD. As far as some students being upset, I suspect that the number of upset students will pale in comparison to the number of happy students. When I was a student in the 70's, there was an attempt to make athletic fees and opt-in option for those who wanted tickets. The semester amount is currently $85 per student.

[hostile]

They could do it, but I don't know that people like McCay are smart enough to realize how beneficial athletics association with the PAC-12 is for academics and research.

The ignorance of our elected officials is never to be underestimated.


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There was a discussion in McCays Twitter feed where someone asked him since he placed so much value on academics would he support the state putting forth the necessary funds to support Utah trying to become a member of the AAU. McCay responded that he wasn't aware of what the AAU was.

[NorthwestUteFan]

There was a discussion in McCays Twitter feed where someone asked him since he placed so much value on academics would he support the state putting forth the necessary funds to support Utah trying to become a member of the AAU. McCay responded that he wasn't aware of what the AAU was.
And why would he, byu graduate that he is?

[Diehard Ute]

I'm not sure what student activities are financially supported by the AD. As far as some students being upset, I suspect that the number of upset students will pale in comparison to the number of happy students. When I was a student in the 70's, there was an attempt to make athletic fees and opt-in option for those who wanted tickets. The semester amount is currently $85 per student.

Which is far less than USU.

If they want to do down that road, at some point someone is going to hammer why USU gets $135 per student and subsidies from the legislature themselves.


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[Ma'ake]

If the Legislature really wants to make something out of this, the U should be ready to play chess vs the checkers laid out by the clown caucus.

If the audit findings and aftermath try to be punitive, Utah should schedule the other state schools, and - to protect the integrity of the State, the Legislature, *and* the U - Utah will move to terminate future games with BYU, as this whole circus has attracted the interest of the ACLU, who are concerned about separating church and state.

Due to the clumsy way Legislators have worded things, the U wants to bend over backward to help protect the State from litigation, and make sure there's no interference from the Church. The best way to prove that is to keep cancelling games.

In Utah, we're already spending $14M on trying to get the rest of America to hand over millions of acres of free land. We're spending $300,000 to a DC lobbyist to make sure wolves are not listed as endangered in Utah. Except the financial audit of this expenditure didn't go well.

The Legislature is already extended on mulitiple speculative ventures - they don't need the ACLU harrangueing them. This is where the U rides to the Legislature's rescue, we help exonerate them...by not playing BYU.

[LA Ute]

If the Legislature really wants to make something out of this, the U should be ready to play chess vs the checkers laid out by the clown caucus.

If the audit findings and aftermath try to be punitive, Utah should schedule the other state schools, and - to protect the integrity of the State, the Legislature, *and* the U - Utah will move to terminate future games with BYU, as this whole circus has attracted the interest of the ACLU, who are concerned about separating church and state.

Due to the clumsy way Legislators have worded things, the U wants to bend over backward to help protect the State from litigation, and make sure there's no interference from the Church. The best way to prove that is to keep cancelling games.

In Utah, we're already spending $14M on trying to get the rest of America to hand over millions of acres of free land. We're spending $300,000 to a DC lobbyist to make sure wolves are not listed as endangered in Utah. Except the financial audit of this expenditure didn't go well.

The Legislature is already extended on mulitiple speculative ventures - they don't need the ACLU harrangueing them. This is where the U rides to the Legislature's rescue, we help exonerate them...by not playing BYU.

Sure. We could schedule more games with in-state public universities to maximize their financial benefits from athletics. That, of course, would make it pretty much impossible to schedule BYU. :Evil:

[Scorcho]

had Boylen been the one to cancel the series a few years back nobody would have cared, it would have been comical. So much of the angst towards Utah is based on athletic success and [ure jealousy over Utah's status change

[chrisrenrut]

And why would he, byu graduate that he is?

He said on the radio that he is a USU graduate.

[concerned]

He said on the radio that he is a USU graduate.

Also Willamette law school.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Also Willamette law school.
I mixed him up with the other yahoo.

He said on the radio that he is a USU graduate.
Is that like Clown College, but for lawyers?

[Irving Washington]

Sure. We could schedule more games with in-state public universities to maximize their financial benefits from athletics. That, of course, would make it pretty much impossible to schedule BYU. :Evil:

Scheduling the state schools, in some reasonable mix, and eliminating the BYU game, at least in football, should be the most logical outcome of the audit. While we're at it, why don't we reinvigorate the referendum effort to get rid of the caucus/convention system. We wouldn't have as many fools on the hill if we did.

[LA Ute]

Scheduling the state schools, in some reasonable mix, and eliminating the BYU game, at least in football, should be the most logical outcome of the audit. While we're at it, why don't we reinvigorate the referendum effort to get rid of the caucus/convention system. We wouldn't have as many fools on the hill if we did.

I have not been a resident there for a long time, but I have always thought that mainstream Utahns are generally level-headed voters. The caucus system is what produces elected officials like Mike Lee and the clowns that run the legislature these days.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

I have not been a resident there for a long time, but I have always thought that mainstream Utahns are generally level-headed voters. The caucus system is what produces elected officials like Mike Lee and the clowns that run the legislature these days.


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This is true. It ends up being the Gayle Ruzicka types who run the show at the neighborhood caucuses, and that effort seems to caus the whole process to fail upward.

[Sullyute]

I have not been a resident there for a long time, but I have always thought that mainstream Utahns are generally level-headed voters. The caucus system is what produces elected officials like Mike Lee and the clowns that run the legislature these days.


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Which is why the republican party is suing over the compromise that was put in place. Those in power want to stay in power.

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[Scratch]

I apologize for cross-posting on multiple sites, but I thought this was interesting:

Here's a look at the yearly financial audit done on Utah athletics:

http://financialreports.utah.gov/saorepor ts/2014/14-33UoU-ncaaUniversityofUtah.pdf (http://financialreports.utah.gov/saoreports/2014/14-33UoU-ncaaUniversityofUtah.pdf)

Look at page 7, where it shows that the Utah athletics gets nothing in "direct state or other government support." You can see one line below that that the AD gets over 3 million in "direct institutional support," the vast majority of which is in the form of tuition waivers (in other words, this is athletic scholarships where no money is changing hands; the accounting that the school has chosen to do counts athletic scholarships as "revenue" for the athletic department."

Furthermore, note on page 7 that the athletic department turned a profit last year of well over 6 million dollars. Quite simply, the athletic department is an extremely responsible and self-sufficient branch of the U that is actually generating a significant profit.

[Applejack]

If the Legislature really wants to make something out of this, the U should be ready to play chess vs the checkers laid out by the clown caucus.

If the audit findings and aftermath try to be punitive, Utah should schedule the other state schools, and - to protect the integrity of the State, the Legislature, *and* the U - Utah will move to terminate future games with BYU, as this whole circus has attracted the interest of the ACLU, who are concerned about separating church and state.

Due to the clumsy way Legislators have worded things, the U wants to bend over backward to help protect the State from litigation, and make sure there's no interference from the Church. The best way to prove that is to keep cancelling games.

In Utah, we're already spending $14M on trying to get the rest of America to hand over millions of acres of free land. We're spending $300,000 to a DC lobbyist to make sure wolves are not listed as endangered in Utah. Except the financial audit of this expenditure didn't go well.

The Legislature is already extended on mulitiple speculative ventures - they don't need the ACLU harrangueing them. This is where the U rides to the Legislature's rescue, we help exonerate them...by not playing BYU.


Sure. We could schedule more games with in-state public universities to maximize their financial benefits from athletics. That, of course, would make it pretty much impossible to schedule BYU. :Evil:

So now we'd rather play Weber than BYU? I get more and more confused about our reasons for not scheduling them. Is it still about player safety? TIA.

[jrj84105]

Press release U of U: (what I'd say):

The University of Utah welcomes this opportunity for discovery and improvement and is committed to the pursuit of athletic excellence across the state of Utah and its educational institutions. In keeping with this commitment, the University of Utah proposes to schedule one football game per season with an in state school, provided that school's athletic department and affiliated institutional sports revenue generating/receiving departments have likewise completed the public and transparent legislative audit process to which the University of Utah is committed.

[chrisrenrut]

So now we'd rather play Weber than BYU? I get more and more confused about our reasons for not scheduling them. Is it still about player safety? TIA.

I think it comes down to Jackassery in general. On and off the field/court.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Press release U of U: (what I'd say):

The University of Utah welcomes this opportunity for discovery and improvement and is committed to the pursuit of athletic excellence across the state of Utah and its educational institutions. In keeping with this commitment, the University of Utah proposes to schedule one football game per season with an in state school, provided that school's athletic department and affiliated institutional sports revenue generating/receiving departments have likewise completed the public and transparent legislative audit process to which the University of Utah is committed.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Is this for real?! Got a little butt hurt there at the end.


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[mpfunk]

So now we'd rather play Weber than BYU? I get more and more confused about our reasons for not scheduling them. Is it still about player safety? TIA.

Look, I want to play BYU in basketball and football every year, but I fear this stunt from a couple of BYU fans with power is ultimately going to kill it off. It is a shame.

[LA Ute]

This is true. It ends up being the Gayle Ruzicka types who run the show at the neighborhood caucuses, and that effort seems to cause the whole process to fail upward.

One thing that pleased me was that after Bob Bennett got dumped in 2010, when the Tea Party took over the caucuses (he was not conservative enough -- good grief!), the LDS Church told its members to get out to their caucus meetings the next time around. The goal was obviously to get normal people out. That worked, and no shenanigans went on at the next party convention. Am I recalling that right? Seems like someone even more conservative than Hatch wanted to dump him in a similar fashion. 2010 was a travesty. Bennett would have won an actual primary election by a landslide but the Tea Party guys organized neighborhood caucuses well enough to dump him in the party convention.

[LA Ute]

So now we'd rather play Weber than BYU? I get more and more confused about our reasons for not scheduling them. Is it still about player safety? TIA.

I think we should play them in hoops annually. I wish Larry hadn't cancelled next year's game. But...if the Legislature is going to claim this is about protecting the athletics revenue streams of other public Utah universities, and not about protecting BYU, then I think it'd be hilarious to schedule those schools at BYU's expense. I'd to love to see those guys hoist with their own petard.

[jrj84105]

Is this for real?! Got a little butt hurt there at the end.


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1) this board is home to probably 90% of the Utah fans who still want to play BYU in any way, shape, or form or on any timeframe. It's a skewed perspective. 100% I would rather play Weber, and I honk his has become he majority opinion.
2) everybody else wants the game gone because a) it's not fun and b) it's monumentally important to a school, program, and subset of the BYU fanbase most people would be happy to see vanish from the earth.
3) recent legislative actions have shown you simply can't cancel BYU without repercussions. But playing on the false premise of "fairness" put forward by these legislators, we can "fairly" limit play to schools that have also gone through the same public audit process. Of course, BYU will be the only school to self-eliminate based on this criterion because there's no way in hell their finances will be made public.

[Applejack]

1) this board is home to probably 90% of the Utah fans who still want to play BYU in any way, shape, or form or on any timeframe. It's a skewed perspective. 100% I would rather play Weber, and I honk his has become he majority opinion.
2) everybody else wants the game gone because a) it's not fun and b) it's monumentally important to a school, program, and subset of the BYU fanbase most people would be happy to see vanish from the earth.
3) recent legislative actions have shown you simply can't cancel BYU without repercussions. But playing on the false premise of "fairness" put forward by these legislators, we can "fairly" limit play to schools that have also gone through the same public audit process. Of course, BYU will be the only school to self-eliminate based on this criterion because there's no way in hell their finances will be made public.

1. 90% of the people who want to continue playing BYU are on this board? I thought Wally and I were alone in that camp.

2. It's not fun?!?!!?!!! This is the first time I've heard this claimed. When did it stop being fun? Was it after the fourth straight win? The fifth? Was it the Jake Heaps game? When did this happen?

[hostile]

1. 90% of the people who want to continue playing BYU are on this board? I thought Wally and I were alone in that camp.

2. It's not fun?!?!!?!!! This is the first time I've heard this claimed. When did it stop being fun? Was it after the fourth straight win? The fifth? Was it the Jake Heaps game? When did this happen?

Hey! I'm in the camp.

[sancho]

1. 90% of the people who want to continue playing BYU are on this board? I thought Wally and I were alone in that camp.


Hey! I'm usually in that camp. So is SoCal, I think.

[mpfunk]

1. 90% of the people who want to continue playing BYU are on this board? I thought Wally and I were alone in that camp.

2. It's not fun?!?!!?!!! This is the first time I've heard this claimed. When did it stop being fun? Was it after the fourth straight win? The fifth? Was it the Jake Heaps game? When did this happen?

How do I keep getting left out of that camp. I can't make it any more clear, I want Utah to play and beat the shit out of BYU on a yearly basis.

[Applejack]

Hey! I'm in the camp.

Welcome to camp Cougar!


Hey! I'm usually in that camp. So is SoCal, I think.

Usually? Welcome to camp wishy-washy.


How do I keep getting left out of that camp. I can't make it any more clear, I want Utah to play and beat the shit out of BYU on a yearly basis.

Your wish is granted!

[sancho]

Usually? Welcome to camp wishy-washy.


That sounds better than camp cougar.

[LA Ute]

Welcome to camp Cougar!



Usually? Welcome to camp wishy-washy.



Your wish is granted!

Hey, I've said repeatedly that I want to play them in basketball annually. Not so sure about football. Maybe 2 and 1.

[wally]

YESSS!!! Utah/BYU Rivalry 4-ever!!

United we stand and together we reach!

[Solon]

1) this board is home to probably 90% of the Utah fans who still want to play BYU in any way, shape, or form or on any timeframe. It's a skewed perspective. 100% I would rather play Weber, and I honk his has become he majority opinion.

I wouldn't mind seeing a more concerted effort to encourage the U to play Weber & SUU in football every so often. It's a big revenue maker for the cash-strapped athletic depts of FCS schools, and it's a ton of fun for the kids (who are mostly regional) to get to play at the stadium of the state's flagship school.

BTW, SUU had the University of Michigan gymnastics team in Cedar City last weekend & beat the #3 Wolverines. The flippin birds are damn good. Eat it, Mormon Red Death / Ann Arbor Ute!

[jrj84105]

YESSS!!! Utah/BYU Rivalry 4-ever!!

United we stand and together we reach!
Like I said, if you want to find this dwindling fan segment, utahby5 is the place to be.

[LA Ute]

Like I said, if you want to find this dwindling fan segment, utahby5 is the place to be.

Maybe we're mostly old(er) guys.

[SoCalPat]

I'm definitely in the camp of playing BYU annually in basketball, but I'm all for dropping them in football in favor of other name P5 programs. Trouble with that is, they're not beating down our door to play in SLC. Has anyone looked at our non-con schedule in the next decade? Those against playing BYU probably figure it's only a matter of time before we get a non-con of Ohio State, Florida and Oklahoma. That'll show em!

[Ma'ake]

I would prefer that we end both the football and basketball series.

But, obviously, the football series has been extended well into the future, and after next year, perhaps Dave Rose will care what his players are doing and saying.

And I really do feel sorry for Gordon Monson. All that bluster, the articulate writing, all to be demolished by a simple fact: If Chris Hill was really *trying* to bury BYU, why did we just extend the football series?

We'll resume the basketball series, and everyone in Provo will be on pins and needles, hoping a player doesn't go overboard, *especially* since the Legislature audit is being seen as an example of BYU (and its fans / Legislators) being difficult to work with.

[U-Ute]

And I really do feel sorry for Gordon Monson. All that bluster, the articulate writing, all to be demolished by a simple fact: If Chris Hill was really *trying* to bury BYU, why did we just extend the football series?

Given the recent outcomes, that's obviously the best way to bury them.

:jig:

[LA Ute]

I am not going near the comments section for this SL Trib editorial but I'll bet it's full of amazing entries. The editorial itself is very strong:

Editorial: Legislative audit won’t equalize Utah and BYU (http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/3572974-155/editorial-legislative-audit-wont-equalize-utah)

[Rocker Ute]

Perhaps this has been posted. But this is Dan McKay who is leading the charge on the audit attempting to appeal to our fanbase that he is a good guy. For the record I know some people who know him professionally and do not have a high opinion to put it nicely.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160225/a861f56e1f0476ac6510c2770bba1505.jpg


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[Diehard Ute]

Perhaps this has been posted. But this is Dan McKay who is leading the charge on the audit attempting to appeal to our fanbase that he is a good guy. For the record I know some people who know him professionally and do not have a high opinion to put it nicely.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160225/a861f56e1f0476ac6510c2770bba1505.jpg


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It's been exposed that his outfit was the result of a lost bet a while back. He posted on Twitter he was wanting to sell it for $9


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[Solon]

I am not going near the comments section for this SL Trib editorial but I'll bet it's full of amazing entries. The editorial itself is very strong:

Editorial: Legislative audit won’t equalize Utah and BYU (http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/3572974-155/editorial-legislative-audit-wont-equalize-utah)



Yeah, but that editorial doesn't mention the HD Truck.

[UtahsMrSports]

Perhaps this has been posted. But this is Dan McKay who is leading the charge on the audit attempting to appeal to our fanbase that he is a good guy. For the record I know some people who know him professionally and do not have a high opinion to put it nicely.




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I should point out, in fairness to this bozo Dan, that he is the one who got some rage out by screaming at Pershing about Larry and Chris's "antics" and actually has nothing to do with the audit (he has insisted on twitter that he didn't know about the Audit until angry ute fans came after him on twitter). I think its Hughes and Urquart or wahtever who are the driving force behind the audit. Dan here is the one who threatened to shut down the athletic department (an empty threat if ever there was one).

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Perhaps this has been posted. But this is Dan McKay who is leading the charge on the audit attempting to appeal to our fanbase that he is a good guy. For the record I know some people who know him professionally and do not have a high opinion to put it nicely.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160225/a861f56e1f0476ac6510c2770bba1505.jpg


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Tucked in tshirt by the ASU guy is bad, tucked in jersey is a crime against nature.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Tucked in tshirt by the ASU guy is bad, tucked in jersey is a crime against nature.

Not to mention migrating belt buckle.

[wally]

Like I said, if you want to find this dwindling fan segment, utahby5 is the place to be.

You mean, of all the superfans that live and die with the team online, right? Certainly there couldn't be a segment of fans that think this way but aren't obnoxiously vocal about it, could there?

[USS Utah]

2. It's not fun?!?!!?!!! This is the first time I've heard this claimed. When did it stop being fun? Was it after the fourth straight win? The fifth? Was it the Jake Heaps game? When did this happen?

2009

[LA Ute]

It's not fun?!?!!?!!! [B{This is the first time I've heard this claimed[/B].[QUOTE]

😳

You've got to start looking up from your desk now and then, son.

[QUOTE]When did it stop being fun? Was it after the fourth straight win? The fifth? Was it the Jake Heaps game? When did this happen?

AJ, we know you make the rules, but...there are some things in life that are fun for you that aren't fun for others. There just are. I can't explain it. It's just life. 😜



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[Applejack]



You've got to start looking up from your desk now and then, son.



AJ, we know you make the rules, but...there are some things in life that are fun for you that aren't fun for others. There just are. I can't explain it. It's just life. 



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True. I guess some fans don't like beating their rival repeatedly. For them, a bowl matchup against 5-8 Nebraska would have been a barrel of laughs. And there was some talk of a game in El Paso; that would've been fun. To each their own.

[LA Ute]

True. I guess some fans don't like beating their rival repeatedly. For them, a bowl matchup against 5-8 Nebraska would have been a barrel of laughs. And there was some talk of a game in El Paso; that would've been fun. To each their own.

Hey, I want to keep playing them. But I understand why others don't. And you're right, the Vegas Bowl was better then the other two you mention. Kind of a different subject, however.

[LA Ute]

Even the Deseret News is calling out the goofballs in the Legislature over the trumped-up audit.

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865648758/In-our-opinion-U-of-U-audit-shrouded-in-suspicion.html?ref=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com

[Utah]

The rivalry will die for the simple fact that we are headed in opposite directions.

BYU just lost arguably their best HC ever to Virginia. They had to hire their fifth option. They don't have enough money to bring in college coaches.

They are struggling to compete in a league full of sub200 RPI schools.

Utah, on the other hand is getting better and better in everything.

Unless your the biggest douche in the land, you can only beat someone so many times before it becomes boring. Like Utah State, we will move on from this.

And that will most likely happen when we develop another rival within the PAC-12.

[sancho]

BYU just lost arguably their best HC ever to Virginia.


Yeah, I would call that arguable.

[UTEopia]

Even the Deseret News is calling out the goofballs in the Legislature over the trumped-up audit.

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865648758/In-our-opinion-U-of-U-audit-shrouded-in-suspicion.html?ref=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com


My suspicion is at the end of the day, the Legislature will try to prohibit the U from collecting student fees for athletics. I don't think they will simply say the fees cannot be collected as that would impact other state schools. What they will do is say that any school where the athletic department receives funds in excess of $25 mil from conference and media contracts cannot impose student fees. They will do this in the name of saving the regular students some money on tuition and that will resonate with the public and with many students and faculty at the U.

The U is already $12-$15 mil under the average PAC 12 funding, mostly related to donations and ticket revenue, where we are way behind.

[LA Ute]

What they will do is say that any school where the athletic department receives funds in excess of $25 mil from conference and media contracts cannot impose student fees. They will do this in the name of saving the regular students some money on tuition and that will resonate with the public and with many students and faculty at the U.

I swear if I lived in Utah I'd register as an independent (if that's possible). What a collection of embarrassments those guys are (with exceptions like Patrice Arent, my old friend from college, who takes being a lawmaker seriously).

Anyway, if they do what you think they will it will be obvious to everyone what is going on. Even the DesNews is saying there's a bad odor surrounding the audit. This whole episode is astonishing.



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[Utah]

Yeah, I would call that arguable.

Basically the same winning percentage as LaVell, but he did it with a much tougher schedule and a much stricter honor code.

Hell, I'm not sure it's arguable.

Boise St won 52 games their first 5 years in the MWC. Bronco's last five years in the MWC, he won 50 games.

Oh, and Bronco faces Utah and TCU and twice as many P5 teams as Boise.

He is a very underrated coach.

[LA Ute]

The author is a long-time Utah fan and ER physician in SLC.

Op-ed: U. of U.’s halt of BYU series warranted by dangerous pattern of violence (http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/3573336-155/op-ed-u-of-us-halt-of)

[Utah]

An even better article from the Des News:


Even worse, if the action is indeed motivated by spite, it is a form of bullying that is way beneath the dignity of a legislative body. Conservative Republicans were outraged at disclosures a couple of years ago that the Internal Revenue Service had targeted groups supportive of conservative causes for tax audits. We would hope the Legislature isn’t playing the audit card in a way that would reflect the kind of animus that conservatives saw in the IRS actions.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865648758/In-our-opinion-U-of-U-audit-shrouded-in-suspicion.html

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

An even better article from the Des News:



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865648758/In-our-opinion-U-of-U-audit-shrouded-in-suspicion.html

This article is arguably better than the one posted by LA. But most would eventually agree that they're the same.


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

“We’re going to work it out one way or another,” Holmoe said. “If they come back to play us (in Provo), that would be great. If they don’t, then there will be some type of settlement and we’ll part as friends.”

http://www.fbschedules.com/2016/03/future-byu-notre-dame-football-series-trimmed-one-game/


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[LA Ute]

http://www.fbschedules.com/2016/03/future-byu-notre-dame-football-series-trimmed-one-game/


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Can we start a petition drive to get the Indiana legislature to audit Notre Dame?

[concerned]

http://www.fbschedules.com/2016/03/future-byu-notre-dame-football-series-trimmed-one-game/


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Your quote was quite an unfortunate and misleading tease. I was sure you were talking about the Utah bb team, and that Holmoe and Rose had accepted the fact that we are not coming. Guess they are not ready to be friends yet.

[concerned]

Can we start a petition drive to get the Indiana legislature to audit Notre Dame?

Why would you take that power away from the Utah legislature. I am sure they think they have it already.

[LA Ute]

Why would you take that power away from the Utah legislature. I am sure they think they have it already.

At the very least they can pass a resolution and send it to Indiana's governor or something.

[NorthwestUteFan]

At the very least they can pass a resolution and send it to Indiana's governor or something.
It maybe they will pass legislation to allow them to pick the Senators for the state of Indiana.

[chrisrenrut]

The "tournament" that has been talked about for a while at Vivint Arena is happening, starting in 2017.

http://www.utahutes.com/news/2016/7/21/mens-basketball-to-participate-in-beehive-classic.aspx

[LA Ute]

This seems to fit here. The audit results are in! So very excited to see the result of this wise use of taxpayer funds and state power!

Audit: Utah athletics can improve financial, hiring and inventory practices (http://www.sltrib.com/sports/4590175-155/audit-utah-athletics-can-improve-financial)


Basically a nothingburger.

[LA Ute]

State audit dings University of Utah athletic department over hiring, travel and equipment; probe finds Pac-12 positives (http://www.sltrib.com/sports/4590175-155/state-audit-dings-university-of-utah?fullpage=1)



Minchey said the university, which housed his audit team in Rice-Eccles Stadium for several months over the course the audit, was very receptive."There's no doubt we've handled much more concerning things, but there's some good substantive auditing recommendations that need to be rectified," he said. "The department was excellent to work with. They agreed to every recommendation. This is one of those 'good' audits in that the agency sees the value of the findings."

The U. also was the recipient of flattering findings: The auditors highlighted Utah's high academic achievement scores and showed that the Utes had underspent their Pac-12 competition, yet managed to find success in football, basketball, baseball, softball and other sports.

King said he was "enormously impressed" by Utah's thriftiness in comparison to its peers: "Frankly, I would like to know how you do it."

Fire Chris Hill!!

[Diehard Ute]

State audit dings University of Utah athletic department over hiring, travel and equipment; probe finds Pac-12 positives (http://www.sltrib.com/sports/4590175-155/state-audit-dings-university-of-utah?fullpage=1)




Fire Chris Hill!!

The folks on Radio From Hell were making fun of Greg Hughes for his stance on the keys this morning.

Amazing we care more about missing keys than we did about missing fugitives.


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[LA Ute]

The folks on Radio From Hell were making fun of Greg Hughes for his stance on the keys this morning.

Amazing we care more about missing keys than we did about missing fugitives.

For those who don't know about the keys issue:


The audit also found the athletics department hasn't kept tabs on nearly $2 million worth of equipment such as laptops, video cameras and big screen TVs. They also discovered the department has lost 264 keys, including 15 master keys, to athletics facilities over the years. Auditors say that makes items susceptible to theft.

House Speaker Greg Hughes, R-Draper, saw that as a particular problem, especially in a sports environment and staying in compliance with NCAA rules.


"Your student-athletes are under a microscope that is far greater than any of your other departments," he said.

http://www.athleticbusiness.com/contract-law/audit-examines-utah-s-athletics-spending.html

2019

[SeattleUte]

State audit dings University of Utah athletic department over hiring, travel and equipment; probe finds Pac-12 positives (http://www.sltrib.com/sports/4590175-155/state-audit-dings-university-of-utah?fullpage=1)




Fire Chris Hill!!

You always try to give your buddy Hill all the credit. It's such bs.

[LA Ute]

You always try to give your buddy Hill all the credit. It's such bs.

What? By saying he should be fired??

[LA Ute]

I wonder how the audits of the athletics departments at USU, Weber State, SUU, UVU, Dixie State, et al., will go? I can't wait to see.

[Diehard Ute]

I wonder how the audits of the athletics departments at USU, Weber State, SUU, UVU, Dixie State, et al., will go? I can't wait to see.

Well they're off to a bad start.

Utah's athletics is by far and away the least subsidized in the state.

Utah's non student fee subsidy is 8.5%.

With student fees it's 17.8%.

The next "least" subsidized Utah institution is Utah State at 49% and 62.8%

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161116/f21d165351db86c2c761b64ab6518e74.png




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[chrisrenrut]

You always try to give your buddy Hill all the credit. It's such bs.

You always try to give your whipping boy Hill all the blame. It's such BS.

[Utebiquitous]

Incredible data Diehard. I had no idea how subsidized athletics are at the other state institutions. LA Ute's tongue and cheek comment about the forthcoming audits drips with even more irony given these numbers. I wonder what the numbers at BYU are. The Mormon Church/BYU are not very transparent on financials but have they been in this regard?

[Diehard Ute]

Incredible data Diehard. I had no idea how subsidized athletics are at the other state institutions. LA Ute's tongue and cheek comment about the forthcoming audits drips with even more irony given these numbers. I wonder what the numbers at BYU are. The Mormon Church/BYU are not very transparent on financials but have they been in this regard?

Nope. They don't share any info. (But the LDS tuition discount, which would be considered as a subsidy, likely means they would have a huge subsidy)

Stanford and USC also don't share much info.

I brought up the subsidy numbers on purpose. One of the gripes from some legislators when calling for the audit was this exact subject. They were making accusations that Utah was funneling large amounts of money to subsidize athletics at the expense of academics.

Reality? Utah athletics has better academics than any other state school and does it with far less help. (Athletic Department graduation numbers just release are over 85% at the U right now)


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[Scratch]

And none of the "subsidy" is actual direct, cash funding from the state.

[Diehard Ute]

And none of the "subsidy" is actual direct, cash funding from the state.

Nope. It's things like tuition waivers etc. Often things on athletic students get as well.


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[Solon]

Incredible data Diehard. I had no idea how subsidized athletics are at the other state institutions. LA Ute's tongue and cheek comment about the forthcoming audits drips with even more irony given these numbers. I wonder what the numbers at BYU are. The Mormon Church/BYU are not very transparent on financials but have they been in this regard?

I know that at SUU a full-time student pays $102/semester in an athletics fee. SUU also has the lowest budget-size of any Big Sky program. By comparison, U of U students pay about $85 a semester.

The president of SUU once told me that other schools use things like "Building Fees" to disguise athletic fees, but I have no direct knowledge of this.

[Diehard Ute]

I know that at SUU a full-time student pays $102/semester in an athletics fee. SUU also has the lowest budget-size of any Big Sky program. By comparison, U of U students pay about $85 a semester.

The president of SUU once told me that other schools use things like "Building Fees" to disguise athletic fees, but I have no direct knowledge of this.

Well given that these numbers from from the Utah State Auditor, I'd say it's fairly apparent that places like SUU are subsidized to a much higher degree.

It would also be interesting to see what those "student fees" get the students.

At Utah that equates to tickets to sporting events, as well as, from my recollection, support for intramural etc.

Some schools charge students for tickets. (Now obviously not every student at the U can go, but most could if they wished for every sport but football)

I didn't read the entire audit, but it would be interesting to see how they documented things like the rent paid to the stadium, and the exposure the university gets.


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[LA Ute]

Senator Niederhauser on the Utah audit:


“As with most of our audits, we find some areas where the agency or department need to make corrections. That’s not uncommon. Clearly, there need to be a couple of adjustments to the processes. There were also some good discoveries that don’t really get press. The University of Utah’s emphasis on academics for their athletes is one of the highest which is quite admirable.”

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

On Friday, Bill Riley said that the audit cost the state $450,000. Can this number be accurate?


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[LA Ute]

Larry tosses some logs on the fire.

http://espn700sports.com/utes/larry-krystkowiak-i-wouldnt-play-byu-but-were-gonna/


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[UtahsMrSports]

Larry tosses some logs on the fire.

http://espn700sports.com/utes/larry-krystkowiak-i-wouldnt-play-byu-but-were-gonna/


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I enjoy the basketball rivalry. Its been great to see us become competitive over the last four years.

There's also a part of me that is happy to see Larry stick it to those guys by waiting through the audit and then saying....'yeah we will see you in that tournament but that's it.'. What can the legislature do? Another audit will look even more petty.

Btw, I read that even though a 2017 game was agreed to, it hasn't been signed. Can anyone confirm or deny?

[DrumNFeather]

Nick Emery was named one of Pardon the Interruption's Turkey's of the Year for his punch on Brandon Taylor. Larry is vindicated!

[Xamius]

Such a dumb excuse on it being hard to schedule. Basketball is very easy to schedule one game.

[chrisrenrut]

Such a dumb excuse on it being hard to schedule. Basketball is very easy to schedule one game.

I don't think Larry is making any excuses when it comes to BYU. He said very simply that he doesn't want to play them.

The scheduling "excuse" is being used when it comes to the smaller in state schools. I think the real message there is that he isn't going to go out of his way to schedule them. If they come to him and things work pretty easy, he'll do it (see UVU this year). But he is not going to move things around or put the team in tough situations for them.

[Scorcho]

this sort of exploded last night and this morning on twitter .... greg hughes personal emails with Krystko's wife regarding the audit

http://www.scout.com/college/utah/forums/1272-utes-sports/15417926-greg-hughes-emails

its pretty clear hughes is your typical zoob, what a douche

[SoCalPat]

this sort of exploded last night and this morning on twitter .... greg hughes personal emails with Krystko's wife regarding the audit

http://www.scout.com/college/utah/forums/1272-utes-sports/15417926-greg-hughes-emails

its pretty clear hughes is your typical zoob, what a douche

We already knew Hughes was a douchey Zoob, so how do these emails change our perception of him? I'm sure some needed the reinforcement, but at what cost?

OTOH, Jan Krystkowiak is now a target of crazed Zoobs everywhere. She didn't ask for this (although she kinda set herself up with the abrupt change in tone in the second email and the contradictory statements she made in those emails -- if she just left it at Hughes response, she would've come out much better in this), but now she's squarely in the middle of it. The Krystkowiaks have kids in public schools, I presume. Can't help but wonder if they'll take some more heat over a story that had pretty much died down, and is now been reignited. How many Ute fans even knew Larry's wife's first name before today?

Scout.com took the bait set up for them by whomever controlled what emails would be released through the request. An exchange with the HC's wife and a series of emails from a crazed Ute fan. It's a giant pinata for Zoobs to take swings at. Fans deserve whatever heat they bring on themselves for their ridiculous claims and statements (I suspect we've all been in the crosshairs of many a Zoob online), but Scout.com did a massive disservice to the Krystkowiak family and Utah basketball by printing these emails. So congrats to James Durrant and the people at Scout. You appealed to the most depraved elements of the rivalry, you got your clicks, your link to your site in the Tribune, but if you think there isn't any collateral damage to the Ute Family in all of this, I can't spare you from your own ignorance.

Think Bronco wasn't in part influenced to leave BYU because Holly had enough of crazed BYU fans? And she was the HC's wife. Imagine the blowback Jan is going to get over this.

[SeattleUte]

I've been following the rivalry for over 50 years and it means nothing to me. I think it's parochial, silly, and counterproductive for the Utes. Between Utah and BYU, it's extremely imbalanced in terms of the cost-benefit equation. What's wrong with me? Hughes would call me arrogant and insular, I guess. I think one of the most rational things Hill has done is try to sever any contact with BYU. No wonder public universities are increasingly becoming less dependent on the whimsy of loony state legislators, especially the crazy religious kind, and moving to the private funded model. I hope the ACLU sues Hughes for damages under 42 USC 1983. That's all I have to say about this nonsense. I feel bad for Jan that she got herself ensnared in this, and she was smart to back off.

[Rocker Ute]

We already knew Hughes was a douchey Zoob, so how do these emails change our perception of him? I'm sure some needed the reinforcement, but at what cost?

OTOH, Jan Krystkowiak is now a target of crazed Zoobs everywhere. She didn't ask for this (although she kinda set herself up with the abrupt change in tone in the second email and the contradictory statements she made in those emails -- if she just left it at Hughes response, she would've come out much better in this), but now she's squarely in the middle of it. The Krystkowiaks have kids in public schools, I presume. Can't help but wonder if they'll take some more heat over a story that had pretty much died down, and is now been reignited. How many Ute fans even knew Larry's wife's first name before today?

...

Think Bronco wasn't in part influenced to leave BYU because Holly had enough of crazed BYU fans? And she was the HC's wife. Imagine the blowback Jan is going to get over this.

You might be showing how long it has been since you've lived here. Salt Lake City simply isn't like that anymore (although it definitely was growing up). Utah fans dominate the public schools particularly on the east benches and if you are a crazed BYU fan you'll get your comeuppance pretty quickly. I wouldn't worry about any blowback happening to their kids in public schools over this.

This is true in the communities too, things are very heavy in favor of Utah here now. You probably have to go out of SL county to get into any sort of true BYU territory. This is true even among Mormons. My LDS ward is probably 5 to 1 Utah fans and I think that is pretty consistent. Regardless the vitriol coming from BYU fans face to face is pretty subdued these days. All the crazies reserve themselves for cougar board and cougar stadium. Watching the Utes pull away in virtually every measurable way has done that.

Any blowback for Jan will come in the form of emails or social media of people who don't know her. I strongly doubt anyone will approach her face to face.

[sancho]

I agree with Pat.

[chrisrenrut]

I agree with Pat.

Im somewhere in between. I think Mrs K can probably avoid most of the blowback if she changes her email address and avoids social media. And Buzz Hunt may have some valuable points, but even Sean Spicer could give him some construcive feedback on his communication strategy.

[SeattleUte]

You might be showing how long it has been since you've lived here. Salt Lake City simply isn't like that anymore (although it definitely was growing up). Utah fans dominate the public schools particularly on the east benches and if you are a crazed BYU fan you'll get your comeuppance pretty quickly. I wouldn't worry about any blowback happening to their kids in public schools over this.

This is true in the communities too, things are very heavy in favor of Utah here now. You probably have to go out of SL county to get into any sort of true BYU territory. This is true even among Mormons. My LDS ward is probably 5 to 1 Utah fans and I think that is pretty consistent. Regardless the vitriol coming from BYU fans face to face is pretty subdued these days. All the crazies reserve themselves for cougar board and cougar stadium. Watching the Utes pull away in virtually every measurable way has done that.

Any blowback for Jan will come in the form of emails or social media of people who don't know her. I strongly doubt anyone will approach her face to face.

Then how does someone like Hughes get elected Speaker of the House?


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[Rocker Ute]

Then how does someone like Hughes get elected Speaker of the House?


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Do people in Seattle elect based off of school fandom? Plus Greg Hughes's district borders Utah county.

I stand by what I said because it is correct. East bench SLC is mostly Utah fans.


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[LA Ute]

This is over a year old, and now the scab has been pulled off. The smart thing for everyone associated with the U to do now is to declare this controversy old news and shut up about it.

If Hughes is capable of being embarrassed, this would be a good time to feel that way. For a guy in his position to engage in an email war like this with a public figure's spouse is beyond foolish.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Then how does someone like Hughes get elected Speaker of the House?


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Same as everywhere else. Suck nine yards of cock.

Speaking rhetorically, of course.

[SeattleUte]

Do people in Seattle elect based off of school fandom? Plus Greg Hughes's district borders Utah county.

I stand by what I said because it is correct. East bench SLC is mostly Utah fans.


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I'm not saying it has anything to do with fandom. You're saying that Hughes is an asshole but his constitutents are not. He seems to be the way he is without fear of political consequences. I'm asking what that actually means about the proportion of assholes among his constitutents.

[Rocker Ute]

I'm not saying it has anything to do with fandom. You're saying that Hughes is an asshole but his constitutents are not. He seems to be the way he is without fear of political consequences. I'm asking what that actually means about the proportion of assholes among his constitutents.

I'm saying it is spurious to think he is elected or not over this issue. I'm also saying he isn't a representative of constituents in SLC either, so it wouldn't matter anyway. Mainly I'm saying that an imagined blowback on Kodiak's wife and kids from neighbors, associates and classmates isn't likely to happen in any meaningful way.


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[LA Ute]

I'm not saying it has anything to do with fandom. You're saying that Hughes is an asshole but his constitutents are not. He seems to be the way he is without fear of political consequences. I'm asking what that actually means about the proportion of assholes among his constitutents.

He's in a totally safe district. He'd have to be caught naked on the front lawn of his house with an equally naked intern to lose his seat. That's why he knows he can get away with sending such emails.

[SeattleUte]

I'm saying it is spurious to think he is elected or not over this issue. I'm also saying he isn't a representative of constituents in SLC either, so it wouldn't matter anyway. Mainly I'm saying that an imagined blowback on Kodiak's wife and kids from neighbors, associates and classmates isn't likely to happen in any meaningful way.


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Okay


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Hughes checks a the boxes to get reelected in Utah:

1- Republican
2- über Mormon
3-Republican
4- looks great in a suit
5- priesthood leadership
6- gets his face on the news
7- Republican
8- temple recommend holder
9- Republican
10- something something Republican something something Mormon.

This particular list is exceptionally overrepresented in Utah politics, but this is the type of person who makes it through the neighborhood caucus meetings.

[mpfunk]

Hughes probably bribed people to become speaker of the house.

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[SheeeeeUTE]

The young Kristkowiak girls go to the same private school as my 12 year old daughter. NO one there will give them any guff. They are in the lower school which goes up to grade 5. I believe his older boys go to public high school and play basketball. I wouldn't expect them go get any blowback either.

[LA Ute]

The young Kristkowiak girls go to the same private school as my 12 year old daughter. NO one there will give them any guff. They are in the lower school which goes up to grade 5. I believe his older boys go to public high school and play basketball. I wouldn't expect them go get any blowback either.

Good. I hope this embarrassing episode simply dies.


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[Utah]

Then how does someone like Hughes get elected Speaker of the House?


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Gerrymandering. Plain and simple.

[Utah]

It's the same way that 20% of Utah is active LDS yet 90%+ of the legislature is active LDS.

Is there a state that has a legislature less representative of their constituents?