Knock the Quack Out of 'Em! Utah vs. Oregon 2016

[DrumNFeather]

While the rest of the Pac 12 is yet to play in week 11, Utah is firmly moving on to the Oregon Ducks. We'll get a pretty good view of how to play them as they take on Stanford this weekend i a win or don't go bowling game at home vs. Stanford who is already bowl eligible (Viva...Las Vegas!).

I'm starting this thread now mostly because I want to talk about potential game times...which will not be announced until Sunday.

ASU @ Washington is already slotted for the Fox Prime time spot (they'd better hope they win this weekend).

Here are the other games next week:

USC/UCLA

CU/WSU

Cal/Stanford

Arizona/Oregon St. (gag)

ESPN and Fox Sports 1 will both get late night choices and I suspect the rest will go to the Pac 12 network. I think the network takes advantage of the big name teams being bad and we see a triple header:

USC/UCLA - 2:00 PM

Cal/Stanford - 5:30 PM

Arizona/Oregon St - 10:00 PM

I don't know how the TV times work on Pac 12 Networks...but that's just my guess.

I think WSU @ CU goes on ESPN (10:30 PM) and the Utes and Ducks go on FS1 (10:00 PM), both late night games (eastern).

[NorthwestUteFan]

Can't get complacent, every team is dangerous, but I like our chances in this game. And I will be there in person, so it will be even more exciting!

[DrumNFeather]

Looks like the Ducks will be coming to Salt lake city with 7 losses unless something changes dramatically in the second half.

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[pangloss]

I think Utah broke Oregon last year.

Before that game they were 38 - 6 since 2012. Since that game they're 10 - 8. And of those 10 wins, one was UC Davis and two were ASU.

[U-Ute]

Game time is high noon MST

[Applejack]

I'm still smiling:


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=2&cad=rja &uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjOrvzC46jQAhVL9IMKHcizAgsQtw III TAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv% 3Da408PXCoAoQ&usg=AFQjCNFzG-0G9-BKyJut8KlgFW8gY0TopQ&sig2=wn10EXLXp6DSdMbvRRi_Rw&b vm=bv.138493631,d.amc

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

I'm still smiling:


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=2&cad=rja &uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjOrvzC46jQAhVL9IMKHcizAgsQtw III TAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv% 3Da408PXCoAoQ&usg=AFQjCNFzG-0G9-BKyJut8KlgFW8gY0TopQ&sig2=wn10EXLXp6DSdMbvRRi_Rw&b vm=bv.138493631,d.amc


Bad links don't make me smile.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

A graphic of all the seniors that will be playing in their last game at RES on Saturday.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161116/c4bf1107e41baebc239dd78d5e995471.jpg

Also, it looks like they plan on doing something to recognize Gaius Vaenuku who would have been a senior this year. 😢😢

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161116/02122b88c6048539be5587333577c1ec.png


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[Utah]

That's a lot of defense/secondary up there.

Also, how many games has Dominguez won for us? He may be the most important player we are losing up there. Not a bad snap for 4 years.

Here's to him playing for 25 years in the NFL and making $800K per year.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I'd wish you guys luck, but it isn't needed. Enjoy a second blowout in a row against Oregon.

[SeattleUte]

I'd wish you guys luck, but it isn't needed. Enjoy a second blowout in a row against Oregon.

Stop it. This a classic trap game.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Stop it. This a classic trap game.

You haven't seen Oregon's defense I guess. Even if I thought the Frosh QB could get the offense rolling and put 35 on a very good Utah defense, which I don't, the Oregon D will give up a minimum of 42.

[sancho]

You haven't seen Oregon's defense I guess. Even if I thought the Frosh QB could get the offense rolling and put 35 on a very good Utah defense, which I don't, the Oregon D will give up a minimum of 42.

We lost to Cal. Cal and Oregon went to OT against each other. SU is right - this is a classic trap game. Everyone is focused on Colorado.

[Utah]

Stop it. This a classic trap game.

This is less of a trap game than ASU.

If we lose to Oregon then we suck, plain and simple. Oregon is that bad. We are so much better than they are. Plus, they just lost bowl eligibility, they are about to lose their coach.

This is the definition of a team that is dead and buried.

I doubt their players even watch much film this week. They should be more focused on ladies and not getting hurt than beating Utah.

[concerned]

If this is a trap game with so many seniors on senior day, last home game, then something is seriously wrong.

[LA Ute]

If this is a trap game with so many seniors on senior day, last home game, then something is seriously wrong.

The Ghost of Colorado, 2011, hangs over all such games.

[concerned]

The Ghost of Colorado, 2011, hangs over all such games.

The ghost of 2011 should hang over next week's game not this week. However, as Kragthorpe pointed out this afternoon, Utah has lost its 11th game of the season the last four years often ruining its season

[LA Ute]

The ghost of 2011 should hang over next week's game not this week. However, as Kragthorpe pointed out this afternoon, Utah has lost its 11th game of the season the last four years often ruining its season

That's partly what I am talking about. Think back to 2011. Final home game against inferior competition. We are favored. Senior Day. An enticing game after this one to distract the Utes (then it was the championship game; this time it's CU. And...LA Ute will be present in the stands. Makes me nervous.

[Utah]

That's partly what I am talking about. Think back to 2011. Final home game against inferior competition. We are favored. Senior Day. An enticing game after this one to distract the Utes (then it was the championship game; this time it's CU. And...LA Ute will be present in the stands. Makes me nervous.

We were a bad MWC team talent wise in that 2011 game. There is no comparison between then and now.

[LA Ute]

We were a bad MWC team talent wise in that 2011 game. There is no comparison between then and now.

That's not really what I'm talking about. I am talking about historical patterns. The Utes are 10-10 in the month of November during their time in the PAC 12. I am hoping that this year will be the year we get that monkey off our back's.


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

That's not really what I'm talking about. I am talking about historical patterns. The Utes are 10-10 in the month of November during their time in the PAC 12. I am hoping that this year will be the year we get that monkey off our back's.


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Hopefully we can get the erroneous apostrophes off our backs first.


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[LA Ute]

Hopefully we can get the erroneous apostrophes off our backs first.


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I blame auto-complete. Its a pain how that work's sometime's.


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[Applejack]

Stop it. This a classic trap game.
No doubt. Anyone that thinks Oregon is done needs to check the recruiting rankings for the past 4 years. This Oregon team is down, but they still have more talent than us.

[DrumNFeather]

One interesting subplot to this game is the return to SLC of Pharaoh Brown. If I'm not mistaken, he missed the entire season last year off of what happened to him here in SLC two years ago (the body bag game that witnessed what? 3-4 knee injuries?). The aftermath was pretty impressive on the part of the U and Kyle, going to see him in the hospital etc. I remember the Oregon folks made a point to the broadcasters of the next game of how great the U was in handling that situation.

[concerned]

One interesting subplot to this game is the return to SLC of Pharaoh Brown. If I'm not mistaken, he missed the entire season last year off of what happened to him here in SLC two years ago (the body bag game that witnessed what? 3-4 knee injuries?). The aftermath was pretty impressive on the part of the U and Kyle, going to see him in the hospital etc. I remember the Oregon folks made a point to the broadcasters of the next game of how great the U was in handling that situation.

Pharoh Brown and Tim Patrick both broke their legs in that game, IIRC.

[Rocker Ute]

The question that HFNW might answer is are the Oregon players avoiding eye contact with Helfrich in the hallway or defending him from chopping block discussions? If it is the latter this is definitely a trap game, if it is the former we should roll easily.


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[DrumNFeather]

Pharoh Brown and Tim Patrick both broke their legs in that game, IIRC.

I think both teams also lost an O-lineman (I want to say a guard) and maybe even a DL.

[sancho]

Prediction: we run a fake punt in this game, partially to shore up our chances at another Guy award.

[Utah]

More proof that if we don't turn the ball over, this will be easier than ASU.

Oregon has quit already.

http://registerguard.com/rg/sports/football/34993441-69/are-once-champs-oregon-ducks-turning-into-tomato-cans-of-pac-12-football.html.csp

Once "big time" kids start losing for the first time in their lives, they usually fold pretty quick.

Utah wins this easily. BUT, we do what we usually do. ARod forgets how to call a game early, we are down 7-10 after 1, we win by 17+.

[DrumNFeather]

More proof that if we don't turn the ball over, this will be easier than ASU.

Oregon has quit already.

http://registerguard.com/rg/sports/football/34993441-69/are-once-champs-oregon-ducks-turning-into-tomato-cans-of-pac-12-football.html.csp

Once "big time" kids start losing for the first time in their lives, they usually fold pretty quick.

Utah wins this easily. BUT, we do what we usually do. ARod forgets how to call a game early, we are down 7-10 after 1, we win by 17+.

I listened to the Bill Reilly interview with the Oregon insider, and he basically said that nobody inside that program believes in Helfrech, and that if we blow 'em out (again) that may be it for him.

[Brian]

I'm in town on business, and extended it to catch this game with my dad and brothers. I'll be in W14, row 60.
If anyone is in that region, would love to say hi.

[LA Ute]

I am in SLC for Thanksgiving week and will be in the stadium today. I'll try to find you, Brian. :football:

[LA Ute]

This is courtesy of Dwight, who posted it on Facebook. I love it:

2023

[sancho]

These uniforms for both teams, this field, the block u, the sun...this is just a good looking football game.

[LA Ute]

These uniforms for both teams, this field, the block u, the sun...this is just a good looking football game.

Perfect weather!


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[LA Ute]

So far we are bending a lot but not breaking.


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[mpfunk]

I'm still not a fan of A Rod

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[mpfunk]

Congrats A Rod, you called a game that got the Utes as many points in the first half as UC Davis.

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[justaute]

Not at all surprised. We have the consistency of a nice sine wave.


Congrats A Rod, you called a game that got the Utes as many points in the first half as UC Davis.

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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

It's a good thing we're not playing UMass today.


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[LA Ute]

Stats are dead even in every category. We do seem to play down to the level of our competition. Interesting phenomenon. I hope the second half will see a different effort.


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Two three and outs in a row to start the second half. That's better.


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[justaute]

It's going to be so funny if Utah loses this game -- sad, but funny.

[mpfunk]

They score a TD here and we are going to lose.

We are the worst ^^#%%%* offense in the country.

[LA Ute]

Now we've created our own adversity and we can show how %#!!?#% resilient we are, coming back to win by a hair. It's what we do.


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[mpfunk]

UC Davis scored 28 against this team before all the injuries.

A terrible Virginia team scored 26.

A bad Stanford offense scored 52.

Washington scored 70.

They are giving up over 40 points a game and we have 14 through 3 quarters. It is unacceptable. It is pathetic. There is no excuse.

It isn't just time to get A-Rod out as OC, he needs to be gone. He should have been gone several years ago. He is the one constant in this offense.

That TD-drive also wasn't on the defense, it was on the offense.

[mpfunk]

Against the worst defense in the conference and one of the worst in the country. We need a TD drive to keep this alive and we pitch a 3 and out.

[mpfunk]

Wow. Talk about a lucky break. That is crazy.

[LA Ute]

Wow. Talk about a lucky break. That is crazy.

Early Christmas present.


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[justaute]

Merry Christmas, Utes!

[OrangeUte]

Nice to know we worked on our tackling technique so effectively at practice this week. D is getting sliced by the ducks.

[mpfunk]

I think we are going to have to score 28 points at least to win this thing. We might need to score more than 30.

[mpfunk]

That was an incredible catch.

[mpfunk]

Here comes the 3 and out.

[mpfunk]

I think we just lost.

Damnit.

[mpfunk]

This loss is 100% on the head of A-Rod. 100%. No one else deserves any blame.

Fix it Whittingham, fix it. It has been going on too long. Fix it.

His offense just put up 21 points on the worst defense in the conference. A defense that is decimated with injuries. This defense gives up over 40 points per game and his offense managed half of that. HALF. Repeat, half.

He is 100% responsible for the loss to Cal. Same problem. Pathetic defense, and your offense doesn't perform.

Fix it Whittingham. Fix it.

[justaute]

In lieu of getting all worked-up, I'm just going to laugh. haha. Whit and Arod, and the program, all earned this loss.

[LA Ute]

Well, doggone.


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[sancho]

This loss is 100% on the head of A-Rod. 100%. No one else deserves any blame.


We gave up 250 yards in the fourth quarter. The defense gets is share of the blame.

[OrangeUte]

Wow. I put this one on the defense. We had to put them away early and didn't.

[OrangeUte]

We gave up 250 yards in the fourth quarter. The defense gets is share of the blame.

Definitely.

[mpfunk]

We gave up 250 yards in the fourth quarter. The defense gets is share of the blame.

They were on the damn field the whole second half because of our pathetic offense. The only break they ever got was official reviews. They get zero blame.

[LA Ute]

Hey, the weather was fantastic!


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[mpfunk]

HFN, congrats on the win. You are good people and at least someone who is a good person got to enjoy this.

[justaute]

I'm sure those 7 top-flight recruits were very impressed. CU keeps on getting commits from prized recruits.

[sancho]

They were on the damn field the whole second half because of our pathetic offense. The only break they ever got was official reviews. They get zero blame.

When we gave them the ball back with 2:18, I think we all knew there was a very good chance that we lose. My first thought wasn't "Yes, we scored!" It was, "Oh no, that's too much time."

The defense didn't tackle well all game. Special teams can take some blame too since they gave up another long punt return.

I'm heartbroken. I was so excited to go sit in the cold in Boulder for a truly big game. Now we are playing for pride and to avoid the Vegas Bowl. This was our year. With USC looking strong again, who knows when our next shot at a title will come?

Where is this defense statistically? How does that compare to recent years for us?

[sancho]

Plays of the game: not getting the 4th and 1 in the first quarter was a huge momentum swing against us, and the Troy Williams red zone fumble cost us big time.

[LA Ute]

HFN, congrats on the win. You are good people and at least someone who is a good person got to enjoy this.

This.


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[LA Ute]

We are 11-11 in November during our time in the PAC-12. Gotta find a way to break out of that.


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[Old Standing ute]

They were on the damn field the whole second half because of our pathetic offense. The only break they ever got was official reviews. They get zero blame.

Brian Allen gets some of the blame for getting beat deep twice in last 2 possessions; especially last play with little time they have to throw in the end zone---do not let him behind you.

Scalley will be a real good D coordinator---but we have been beaten on the edge all year---partly the LBs are not great---but you need an adjustment. I hope he regularly talks to Pease.

But bottom line we needed to be up 21-3 not 7-3 at the half.

[SeattleUte]

Applejack was right. Just look at the last four years' recruiting lists. Oregon has better players. Better athletes, more talent. Had it not been for Hanson's TD they were poised to win going away. 600 total yards. Those last two drives, the last two touchdowns, were magnificent. Nobody's fault. Just great execution; great football. Oregon has always had this kind of game in them. I don't know what's been wrong with them. They've been capable of so much more. But a proud program like that, with their talent, just pulled it together and won the game.


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[mpfunk]

Applejack was right. Just look at the last four years' recruiting lists. Oregon has better players. Better athletes, more talent. Had it not been for Hanson's TD they were poised to win going away. 600 total yards. Those last two drives, the last two touchdowns, were magnificent. Nobody's fault. Just great execution; great football. Oregon has always had this kind of game in them. I don't know what's been wrong with them. They've been capable of so much more. But a proud program like that, with their talent, just pulled it together and won the game.


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No one ever doubted their offense. They have been good on offense all year. Anyone who thought we could win scoring less than 30 as insane. I've been saying for weeks I was worried we didn't have enough offense to win this game. We didn't. I'm still surprised we beat ASU.

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[concerned]

No one ever doubted their offense. They have been good on offense all year. Anyone who thought we could win scoring less than 30 as insane. I've been saying for weeks I was worried we didn't have enough offense to win this game. We didn't. I'm still surprised we beat ASU.

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If we did not have enough offense to win this game, we have no future in this conference. That is a damning indictment KW's leadership. year after year after year after year it's the same thing in November

[SeattleUte]

I'm sure those 7 top-flight recruits were very impressed. CU keeps on getting commits from prized recruits.

We don't have CU's history or resources.


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[LA Ute]

If we did not have enough offense to win this game, we have no future in this conference. That is a damning indictment KW's leadership. year after year after year after year it's the same thing in November

It does seem like we are watching the same movie every November. Not blaming anybody, but it is a pattern.

[SeattleUte]

They were on the damn field the whole second half because of our pathetic offense. The only break they ever got was official reviews. They get zero blame.

Time of possession was almost exactly the same. They had two very quick TD drives.


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[SeattleUte]

If we did not have enough offense to win this game, we have no future in this conference. That is a damning indictment KW's leadership. year after year after year after year it's the same thing in November

I think where we disagree is my realization that Utah comes to the PAC 12 with certain structural disadvantages that are manifest in Utah's recruiting inferior to everyone in the conference but maybe two schools, and we don't recruit better than anyone. The premise of what you're saying is that Whit is dealt a similar hand in terms of talent to everyone in the conference. He's not. On the contrary. But the Utes have been very competitive. A true conservative is that way because things can get a lot worse much more easily than they can get even a little better. That's my outlook.

To me, the only valid criticism of Whit would be that he should be recruiting better. But I haven't seen a persuasive argument that he should. But that's where I have a very open mind.


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[sancho]

If we did not have enough offense to win this game, we have no future in this conference. That is a damning indictment KW's leadership. year after year after year after year it's the same thing in November

Kyle significantly outperforms what Utah ought to be able to do. His curse is that this leaves everyone - including himself, I'm sure - hungry for more instead of satisfied.

Recruiting rankings, which are the most accurate measure of success available in college football, put us at 9th or 10th in the conference year after year. We always do better than we should. We are the current poster child for recruiting ranking counterexamples.

It's just painful that we have been so close to doing what CU is doing - pulling off a division title with inferior talent. We just haven't been able to get over that hump. I don't know how long the window will be open for us.

[concerned]

I agree the KW outperforms his recruiting base. However he loses the games he should win. A really good coach doesn't do that year after year after year after year. I agree with So Cal pat that we may have reached our ceiling. If we didn't win the division this year I don't know when we will. If Colorado wins the Division we will be the only team that hasn't won in the last 6 years. It was ours for the taking and we dropped the ball one more time. That is coaching.

[sancho]

I agree the KW outperforms his recruiting base. However he loses the games he should win.

I don't know. According to recruiting, he should lose just about all the games.

If we have reached our ceiling with Whitt (and I feel the same right now - I don't see a division title in the near future), we can always hire someone with a lower ceiling and start performing where we should be performing.

[concerned]

I don't know. According to recruiting, he should lose just about all the games.

If we have reached our ceiling with Whitt (and I feel the same right now - I don't see a division title in the near future), we can always hire someone with a lower ceiling and start performing where we should be performing.

Those must be the only two possibilities.

[sancho]

Those must be the only two possibilities.

No, anything's possible in college football. Those are just the likeliest two possibilities. Anyway, Kyle's not going anywhere.

[DrumNFeather]

I've spent the last few hours trying really hard to not overreact to this loss. I read the Twitter and people are just losing their minds, so that's helpful. I don't think we've reached our ceiling because we haven't seen what happens when Whit hires outside of his circle of trust. I think we've seen him adapt over the last few years to try and throw the ball more and we've seen the benefit in that in Troy Williams, Tyler Huntley, and Jason Shelly all coming into the program. I don't think we see those guys if we don't have some commitment to the "throw game." However, I agree with Funk, it's just time for A-Rod to go. I don't think he is nearly creative or experienced enough to hang week in and week out with the best in the league.

After the SJSU game, Kyle was very impressed with the offensive scheme they ran with Al Borgess. Give him a call, or find a hungry up and comer. It's time.

I'm not convinced that we've hit our ceiling in this league. USC is good this year because they have better talent than everyone else, but nobody is going to convince me that Clay Helton is the next Pete Carroll, at least not yet. I've even read from Ute fans on Twitter that Mike Macentyre is a better coach. Stop it.

If I were to take a positive out of this game, it would be that Cody Barton will probably be Donovan Thompson's back up next year.

On to the Buffs.

[concerned]

No, anything's possible in college football. Those are just the likeliest two possibilities. Anyway, Kyle's not going anywhere.

And neither are we, sadly.

[sancho]

And neither are we, sadly.

Also true.

[DrumNFeather]

One more thing...

I propose that we honor the seniors next year in Week 1 vs. North Dakota.

[sancho]

it's just time for A-Rod to go. I don't think he is nearly creative or experienced enough to hang week in and week out with the best in the league.


Our offense was quite different this year in many of the ways fans wanted. I would rather keep the OC's. I've seen the OC carousel before, and I don't like it.

[SeattleUte]

I just think it's not realistic--or, maybe more accurate--not prudent to expect anyone could do better, where we see the struggles other Pac 12 teams have experienced with so many more resources and more history. Any year we'd gladly trade recruits with ASU, Arizona, Cal, UCLA, all doormats this season. Same with Washington which for 15 years was outside the top 25.

Besides, there has been overall improvement in the past six years, and every year the past three. And some would have us make a big bet--on whom?

We need to be philosophical about the fact that we're Utah, and not even Colorado. And I think the program will continue to improve in the future.

[smokymountainrain]

This is less of a trap game than ASU.

If we lose to Oregon then we suck, plain and simple. Oregon is that bad. We are so much better than they are. Plus, they just lost bowl eligibility, they are about to lose their coach.

This is the definition of a team that is dead and buried.

I doubt their players even watch much film this week. They should be more focused on ladies and not getting hurt than beating Utah.

hehehe

[LA Ute]

I think we have overachieved as PAC-12 members and that in football Kyle is the reason for that. His approach can be frustrating at times but it makes the limited resources we have work. SU is right about that. Kyle's a hero.

I don't think we are at our ceiling. DnF made a good case for that position. I think our ceiling will rise steadily but gradually.

All that said, concerned is also right. It seems to me that it is a mistake to excuse losses based on our comparative lack of resources (looking at you, Seattle). We should have beaten both Cal and Oregon and there's no excuse.

But...that's intercollegiate sports at a high level. This has still been the most fun and exciting Ute football season I've ever experienced. The U. is a university on the rise and so are all of its athletic programs. We need to be patient, support the programs (join the Crimson Club, you goofballs!), and enjoy the ride.

(And the Utah DBs need to learn how to tackle!)


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[mUUser]

.......The defense didn't tackle well all game.......


As I watched today, I felt like this was our consistent weakness all game long--first to fourth quarter. Our defense was simply out of sorts. Missed assignments and missed tackles all over the place.

As for KW. We aren't firing him. He's a top 20 coach. Get a grip Utenation.

[DrumNFeather]

As I watched today, I felt like this was our consistent weakness all game long--first to fourth quarter. Our defense was simply out of sorts. Missed assignments and missed tackles all over the place.

As for KW. We aren't firing him. He's a top 20 coach. Get a grip Utenation.

So I think what we're saying here in part is that Kyle needs to go find us the Guy Holiday of LB coaches.

[DrumNFeather]

Our offense was quite different this year in many of the ways fans wanted. I would rather keep the OC's. I've seen the OC carousel before, and I don't like it.

The offense has been measurably better this season, no doubt. We finally have some pass catchers in the program and they have certainly stepped up their game. Joe Williams return was a revelation. All of this is good news. The question is, do we have the right guys in place to put that talent in a position to succeed? The answer at least for me is, I'm not so sure. We've long needed a QB coach, and Kyle not fulling committing to A-Rod should tell us something about his belief in the guy. I think our offense is close. We've got good, young, talented pieces and we've got more coming in, but it is missing something. What is it missing? Again, I couldn't probably point to one or two things from watching the team, but It's like so many other things - you know it when you see it and there is a major "it" missing with our offense at times.

[Diehard Ute]

As I watched today, I felt like this was our consistent weakness all game long--first to fourth quarter. Our defense was simply out of sorts. Missed assignments and missed tackles all over the place.

As for KW. We aren't firing him. He's a top 20 coach. Get a grip Utenation.

The assignment issue is a problem. Justin Thomas shouldn't have to physically shove Cody Barton into position, he should know he's not covering the speedy outside receiver.


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[DrumNFeather]

The assignment issue is a problem. Justin Thomas shouldn't have to physically shove Cody Barton into position, he should know he's not covering the speedy outside receiver.


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If he just catches that tipped ball though...:swear:

[Utah]

Takeaways - ARod is bad.

Justin Thomas dropping the INT/pick six

4th down no conversion

ARod trying to get too cute with a QB who fumbles and a QB sneak in the red zone.

Why no Moss? McCormick?

Why have we stopped trying to get the ball in B-B's hands? This is Clay all over again.

I don't think Whitt should be gone. BUT, he needs to change.

We lost two games this year vs teams that give up almost 50 a game...and the most we can score is 28.

Unacceptable. I've always given Whitt the benefit of the doubt and said it was depth. We have depth this year.

It's coaching. We have two TE's that would start at most schools. We have the #1 dual threat QB out of high school.

And we can't score more than 28 vs teams that regularly give up over 40.

We do have a former WR and Whitt's brother coaching our TE's and QB's.

Until Whitt realizes that if he can't get 35+ a game, we will never be more than what we are.

Our QB's are consistently the worst QB's in the PAC-12. Wilson had Booker, Denham, Andersen, Clay who have all played in the NFL.

There is a good shot that Butler-Byrd, Patrick and Joe will be on NFL rosters next fall.

It's not a talent issue. It's a coaching issue.

[Utebiquitous]

Utah,
I note you don't criticize the linebackers. You may recall arguing in the off season that it's the least necessary position as some on the board wondered about the talent level. How's that looking to you now. I like these coaches. I wouldn't change one of them. I do think the staff or someone on the staff may share your opinion about linebackers because we're weak there and that's on them.

That said, this loss is much more on player execution than coaches. I can't believe you are blaming Arod for William's fumble. What a terrific play by Williams - except he didn't put the ball at his chest. Do you really think our tight ends would start at most schools? Perhaps Fakailoatonga would have. I like our guys but let's not get carried away.

I share some of your frustrations but ratchet down the rhetoric just a little.

I'm with LAUte - what a season, what a blast to cheer for a Pac-12 team who has become so relevant.

[concerned]

Absolutely horrible open field tackling especially by Domo today and all year.

[Utah]

Utah,
I note you don't criticize the linebackers. You may recall arguing in the off season that it's the least necessary position as some on the board wondered about the talent level. How's that looking to you now. I like these coaches. I wouldn't change one of them. I do think the staff or someone on the staff may share your opinion about linebackers because we're weak there and that's on them.

That said, this loss is much more on player execution than coaches. I can't believe you are blaming Arod for William's fumble. What a terrific play by Williams - except he didn't put the ball at his chest. Do you really think our tight ends would start at most schools? Perhaps Fakailoatonga would have. I like our guys but let's not get carried away.

I share some of your frustrations but ratchet down the rhetoric just a little.

I'm with LAUte - what a season, what a blast to cheer for a Pac-12 team who has become so relevant.

I said Tauteoli and Lufatasaga would be solid and average. And they have been. Tauteoli was out today. Sooooo....

Troy has fumbled a lot all season. Running him in the red zone was...less effective. Run Moss and Joe more, the guy who fumbles less.

Are you ok with ARod and Fred Whitt as our coaches? Are you happy with the TE production, QB production and offense play calling?

It seems like a more seasoned OC, a real QB coach would be a major upgrade.

Oh, and Whitt allowing his new OC room to breathe.

We are turning the ball over a ton this year. Might as well get a good OC to come in. He couldn't do any worse.

[Diehard Ute]

Utah,
I note you don't criticize the linebackers. You may recall arguing in the off season that it's the least necessary position as some on the board wondered about the talent level. How's that looking to you now. I like these coaches. I wouldn't change one of them. I do think the staff or someone on the staff may share your opinion about linebackers because we're weak there and that's on them.

That said, this loss is much more on player execution than coaches. I can't believe you are blaming Arod for William's fumble. What a terrific play by Williams - except he didn't put the ball at his chest. Do you really think our tight ends would start at most schools? Perhaps Fakailoatonga would have. I like our guys but let's not get carried away.

I share some of your frustrations but ratchet down the rhetoric just a little.

I'm with LAUte - what a season, what a blast to cheer for a Pac-12 team who has become so relevant.

Yup. Our LB's just aren't there.

Barton may be all effort, but his lack of defensive understanding showed today. Multiple times he lined up wrong, leaving someone either uncovered or in a mismatch.

Luafatasaga is probably a step slow for the PAC-12, which means he needs to be even more sound in his tackles which he wasn't.

Tauteoli being out hurt. He's our best LB.

Thompson made the best tackles all day, with Barton gone we'll see if he has the rest of the goods.

Bottom line we have to upgrade our LB's. It's hard to play Kyle's preferred defense when our LB's can't cover a RB/TE

As for offense, we never tried to take advantage of Oregon's defense. They consistently played 8-9 in the box. Rarely did we go play action or run the receivers on slants behind the LB's who were selling out on the run. We also never went back to the swing pass to Joe


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[LA Ute]

As for offense, we never tried to take advantage of Oregon's defense. They consistently played 8-9 in the box. Rarely did we go play action or run the receivers on slants behind the LB's who were selling out on the run. We also never went back to the swing pass to Joe

I wondered about all those things too. Play action seemed to work in the first half.

Oregon's game plan was excellent. They exploited our LBs all game long. The middle was always open for a short pass and the edges were good for a 7-8 yard run half the time.



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[LA Ute]

If you have it in you to listen, the post-game interviews are here:

http://espn700sports.com/utes/utahs-pac-12-championship-hopes-dashed-by-oregon/

Kyle doesn't seem to think we were out-talented, but just outplayed:


“Zone coverages were ridiculously bad,” said head coach Kyle Whittingham. “Our pattern reading, our route recognition, our route awareness in our zone drops were awful. They exploited that over and over and over.”

Maybe saying we had no chance to win because we are just not talented enough and never will be (structural weaknesses!) lets us off the hook too easily.


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[Diehard Ute]

If you have it in you to listen, the post-game interviews are here:

http://espn700sports.com/utes/utahs-pac-12-championship-hopes-dashed-by-oregon/

Kyle doesn't seem to think we were out-talented, but just outplayed:



Maybe saying we had no chance to win because we are just not talented enough and never will be (structural weaknesses!) lets us off the hook too easily.


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From my cheap seats, by this point in the season your defensive guys should be able to:

1) Tackle

2)Execute the called defense correctly most of the time.

If that's not the case perhaps there is a talent issue.

More than once players just looked lost, either at what man they had or what defense was called.




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[justaute]

Exactly.


From my cheap seats, by this point in the season your defensive guys should be able to:

1) Tackle

2)Execute the called defense correctly most of the time.

If that's not the case perhaps there is a talent issue.

More than once players just looked lost, either at what man they had or what defense was called.




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[sancho]

As for offense, we never tried to take advantage of Oregon's defense. They consistently played 8-9 in the box. Rarely did we go play action or run the receivers on slants behind the LB's who were selling out on the run. We also never went back to the swing pass to Joe


I wondered about the pass to Joe as well.

Our offense has relied on big plays all season, and we couldn't find them yesterday. Our deep passes were unsuccessful early, and we stopped trying. I would not have minded more attempts to Patrick downfield. On the other hand, there were 3-4 plays in the 2nd half where Troy bought himself a ton of time by scrambling, and he still couldn't find an open receiver.

[justaute]

FWIW...funny how some have seriously defended Arod this season and criticized others for expressing contrarian thoughts -- oh my, how that tune has changed after yesterday. Although we are all entitled to opinions, making it personal is just asinine. Though, I'm not really surprised.

[Rocker Ute]

Might as well get a good OC to come in. He couldn't do any worse.

Just two years ago we had Dave Christensen. It could most definitely get worse.





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[LA Ute]

Couple of Sunday morning observations. I remember that at one point in the 3rd or 4th quarter Joe Williams got up a little slowly after being tackled and seemed to favor one leg slightly, then shook it off. I wonder if there was some tenderness that resulted in his number being called less? Anyone else notice that?

Also, I don't like to make judgments on play calls in crunch time because I'm not in the booth, but I do wonder why Scalley brought the house on the final Oregon TD pass. That meant the QB just needed time to get a quick 50-50 ball off to one of his receivers, who would be covered 1-on-1 at best. They threw at Brian Allen, of course.

That said, the same approach has worked in the past. In the 2013 Stanford game, in a similar situation, Utah brought pressure too. No one blocked Jared Norris so Kevin Hogan had to throw a hurried pass which was broken up. That's at about 2:14 here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-5ZY7BwbJI

[USS Utah]

Plays of the game: not getting the 4th and 1 in the first quarter was a huge momentum swing against us, and the Troy Williams red zone fumble cost us big time.

Without that fumble, Utah gets at least a field goal, which would have won the game if the Ducks score only score the 30 they did.

[USS Utah]

Applejack was right. Just look at the last four years' recruiting lists. Oregon has better players. Better athletes, more talent. Had it not been for Hanson's TD they were poised to win going away. 600 total yards. Those last two drives, the last two touchdowns, were magnificent. Nobody's fault. Just great execution; great football. Oregon has always had this kind of game in them. I don't know what's been wrong with them. They've been capable of so much more. But a proud program like that, with their talent, just pulled it together and won the game.


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They have a lot of young players adjusting to a new defensive scheme. They've had injuries They changed QBs mid season. Yesterday it all came together for the Ducks.

[USS Utah]

If we did not have enough offense to win this game, we have no future in this conference. That is a damning indictment KW's leadership. year after year after year after year it's the same thing in November

I think we had enough offense, but that fumble inside the red zone in the first half was costly. A field goal there could have won the game.

[USS Utah]

Our offense was quite different this year in many of the ways fans wanted. I would rather keep the OC's. I've seen the OC carousel before, and I don't like it.

Changing OCs is too easy, and it is how we got into this mess, if mess it be.

[USS Utah]

I think we have overachieved as PAC-12 members and that in football Kyle is the reason for that. His approach can be frustrating at times but it makes the limited resources we have work. SU is right about that. Kyle's a hero.

I don't think we are at our ceiling. DnF made a good case for that position. I think our ceiling will rise steadily but gradually.

All that said, concerned is also right. It seems to me that it is a mistake to excuse losses based on our comparative lack of resources (looking at you, Seattle). We should have beaten both Cal and Oregon and there's no excuse.

But...that's intercollegiate sports at a high level. This has still been the most fun and exciting Ute football season I've ever experienced. The U. is a university on the rise and so are all of its athletic programs. We need to be patient, support the programs (join the Crimson Club, you goofballs!), and enjoy the ride.

(And the Utah DBs need to learn how to tackle!)


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Actually, if your DBs have to make a lot of tackles, that means the LBs are not doing a good job.

[USS Utah]

So I think what we're saying here in part is that Kyle needs to go find us the Guy Holiday of LB coaches.

Having lost all of our LBs from last season, we should not be surprised that we struggled at times at that position this year -- and injuries to the one LB that showed promise didn't help.

[justaute]

True. By the same logic, we still would have lost if Oregon's special team didn't give us that Christmas present.


Without that fumble, Utah gets at least a field goal, which would have won the game if the Ducks score only score the 30 they did.

[USS Utah]

I said Tauteoli and Lufatasaga would be solid and average. And they have been. Tauteoli was out today. Sooooo....

Troy has fumbled a lot all season. Running him in the red zone was...less effective. Run Moss and Joe more, the guy who fumbles less.

Are you ok with ARod and Fred Whitt as our coaches? Are you happy with the TE production, QB production and offense play calling?

It seems like a more seasoned OC, a real QB coach would be a major upgrade.

Oh, and Whitt allowing his new OC room to breathe.

We are turning the ball over a ton this year. Might as well get a good OC to come in. He couldn't do any worse.

You are aware, of course, that Oregon was focusing all day on stopping the runs by RBs, especially on 1st down. That made play action a great option, but Troy missed wide open receivers.

I understand where you are coming from, you prediction a blowout but got a loss instead. Take a chill pill -- just a suggestion.

[LA Ute]

Actually, if your DBs have to make a lot of tackles, that means the LBs are not doing a good job.

Great point, and absolutely right. Our LBs were tackling just as badly. I was mainly referring to poor tackling after catches by the Oregon receivers, which turned 7-yard gains into 20-yard gains.

[concerned]

Great point, and absolutely right. Our LBs were tackling just as badly. I was mainly referring to poor tackling after catches by the Oregon receivers, which turned 7-yard gains into 20-yard gains.

As I said below, domo is the worst tackler since Deion Sanders. He goes out of his way to avoid hitting g a receiver and wrapping up, I suspect to avoid injury that would hurt his pro career.

[USS Utah]

True. By the same logic, we still would have lost if Oregon's special team didn't give us that Christmas present.

Probably, but Oregon used that review as motivation for the rest of the game, feeling they got robbed even though the call was correct.

[Irving Washington]

Changing OCs is too easy, and it is how we got into this mess, if mess it be.
Maybe we're doomed to insanity, i.e. doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Get a new OC when that changes nothing or sticking with ARod, expecting things to get better.

[USS Utah]

Maybe we're doomed to insanity, i.e. doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Get a new OC when that changes nothing or sticking with ARod, expecting things to get better.

ARod, like the rest of us, can never learn from his mistakes if he is never allowed to make any.

Meanwhile, we should all have learned by now that a new OC is not always a panacea.

---

"You can't play not to make mistakes. Unless you make mistakes, nothing good is going to happen" -- Rick Majerus

[LA Ute]

Maybe we're doomed to insanity, i.e. doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Get a new OC when that changes nothing or sticking with ARod, expecting things to get better.

As long as KW is the head coach this year's offense will be pretty much standard. This is about as good as it will get. Maybe a little better or (heaven forbid) a little worse. About the middle of the PAC-12. It'll be good enough most years to be competitive, go to bowls regularly, and occasionally to vie for the championship. If we continue to upgrade recruiting gradually, our offense will get better gradually. That's what my crystal ball tells me. 😉


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

So, if my reading comprehension is accurate, it sounds like everyone agrees that our LBs aren't good enough. Tauteoli is good but may have a problem staying on the field. Kavika has been okay, not great. Everyone seems to think Barton is okay in a pinch. I don't know enough about Donovan Thompson to predict his future, but he seems solid enough to think he'll have one.

My main point is, if this is a known weakness, where are we headed with this position? Is this a major emphasis on where we're recruiting? Because, it hasn't seemed like it to me. I know Tyler Katoa is the highest ranked LB in the state but I don't think Utah is in that game.

I don't follow recruiting super close but this class could really set the tone, one direction or another for the next few seasons. And I'm starting to worry about it.


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[Diehard Ute]

So, if my reading comprehension is accurate, it sounds like everyone agrees that our LBs aren't good enough. Tauteoli is good but may have a problem staying on the field. Kavika has been okay, not great. Everyone seems to think Barton is okay in a pinch. I don't know enough about Donovan Thompson to predict his future, but he seems solid enough to think he'll have one.

My main point is, if this is a known weakness, where are we headed with this position? Is this a major emphasis on where we're recruiting? Because, it hasn't seemed like it to me. I know Tyler Katoa is the highest ranked LB in the state but I don't think Utah is in that game.

I don't follow recruiting super close but this class could really set the tone, one direction or another for the next few seasons. And I'm starting to worry about it.


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Davir Hamilton is already in the program and will be playing LB I believe. He's redshirting this year with an injury. 6'2" 225 and can run.

With Thompson and Hamilton we have a good base, but we do need more depth.



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[Solon]

As long as KW is the head coach this year's offense will be pretty much standard. This is about as good as it will get. Maybe a little better or (heaven forbid) a little worse. About the middle of the PAC-12. It'll be good enough most years to be competitive, go to bowls regularly, and occasionally to vie for the championship. If we continue to upgrade recruiting gradually, our offense will get better gradually. That's what my crystal ball tells me. 


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So, "standard" is an 8-win season (9?) & a top-25 ranking?
I will take it.

[LA Ute]

So, "standard" is an 8-win season (9?) & a top-25 ranking?
I will take it.

Me too.


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[USS Utah]

Top 25 and 8 wins with two games to go (including bowl game which will likely be better than the Vegas Bowl), after competing for but falling short of a divisional title. How many teams would kill for that kind of season? Yet some Utah fans want more coaching changes.

[LA Ute]

Top 25 and 8 wins with two games to go (including bowl game which will likely be better than the Vegas Bowl), after competing for but falling short of a divisional title. How many teams would kill for that kind of season? Yet some Utah fans want more coaching changes.

If we are annually a team to be reckoned with in the conference, regularly within striking distance of the title, winning the title now and then, that will be a dream come true for this Ute fan.


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[sancho]

If we are annually a team to be reckoned with in the conference, regularly within striking distance of the title, winning the title now and then, that will be a dream come true for this Ute fan.


The pessimist in me realizes that somebody has to take Colorado's spot at the bottom of the division. The optimist in me hopes Arizona takes on that role.

Yes, the past few seasons have been great. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt to come close and fall.

[justaute]

8-win season may be an acceptable standard to many....I guess we'll see. WSU has been improving. CU clearly has improved. Washington is likely back into tier-1 of P12. USC is USC, and is now back to full strength. How long will UCLA, Arizona, and ASU will be down? Stanford will always be tough.

We'll see what awaits.

[LA Ute]

Were the Utes just looking beyond Oregon to Colorado? That's very unflattering but Occam's Razor explanation.


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[Ultimate Ute]

I hope the wait for the Rose Bowl isn't a Chicago Cubs length epoch. :(

[Utah]

You are aware, of course, that Oregon was focusing all day on stopping the runs by RBs, especially on 1st down. That made play action a great option, but Troy missed wide open receivers.

I understand where you are coming from, you prediction a blowout but got a loss instead. Take a chill pill -- just a suggestion.

Lol. This board has some of the most condescending douche bags around.

[Utah]

Top 25 and 8 wins with two games to go (including bowl game which will likely be better than the Vegas Bowl), after competing for but falling short of a divisional title. How many teams would kill for that kind of season? Yet some Utah fans want more coaching changes.

So, asking for a legitimate QB coach who has put QB's in the NFL is unreasonable?

[Utebiquitous]

Utah,
I'm with you on a quarterback coach. I think Erickson as a high-level assistant and the co-offensive coordinators is getting in the way of this happening. I believe Roderick handles the quarterbacks as well. Hopefully, this gets remedied. Hearing Scott Mitchell talk football on the radio always gets me wishing he was coaching our quarterbacks. Look at that - we can agree on something.

By the way - have you ever heard the phrase - "pot calling the kettle black?"

[Solon]

By the way - have you ever heard the phrase - "pot calling the kettle black?"

We need a new cliché. I see this one on the internet too much.

What about:

"taco calling the burrito tasty"
"Doleac calling Poeltl tall"
"byu-student calling the North Korean repressed"
?

We can do better.

[Applejack]

Were the Utes just looking beyond Oregon to Colorado? That's very unflattering but Occam's Razor explanation.


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No! OREGON IS VERY TALENTED! WHY DOES NO ONE UNDERSTAND THIS?

[Applejack]

So, if my reading comprehension is accurate, it sounds like everyone agrees that our LBs aren't good enough. Tauteoli is good but may have a problem staying on the field. Kavika has been okay, not great. Everyone seems to think Barton is okay in a pinch. I don't know enough about Donovan Thompson to predict his future, but he seems solid enough to think he'll have one.

My main point is, if this is a known weakness, where are we headed with this position? Is this a major emphasis on where we're recruiting? Because, it hasn't seemed like it to me. I know Tyler Katoa is the highest ranked LB in the state but I don't think Utah is in that game.

I don't follow recruiting super close but this class could really set the tone, one direction or another for the next few seasons. And I'm starting to worry about it.


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I've been saying this for two years now. LBs are not in the pipeline.

[Brian]

Pick one:
a) Depth at QB
b) Depth at LB

[LA Ute]

No! OREGON IS VERY TALENTED! WHY DOES NO ONE UNDERSTAND THIS?

I guess I'm just obstinate.

[USS Utah]

8-win season may be an acceptable standard to many....I guess we'll see. WSU has been improving. CU clearly has improved. Washington is likely back into tier-1 of P12. USC is USC, and is now back to full strength. How long will UCLA, Arizona, and ASU will be down? Stanford will always be tough.

We'll see what awaits.

I think Utah will always be tough, as well, since that is the rep Kyle has built.

[USS Utah]

Lol. This board has some of the most condescending douche bags around.


As they say, takes one to know.

[Rocker Ute]

As they say, takes one to know.

I don't know, I've never seen him at any of our meetings.


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[Brian]

Living out of state, I don't get to many games. The crowd on Saturday seemed a little calm. How far outside of normal was it?

[LA Ute]

Living out of state, I don't get to many games. The crowd on Saturday seemed a little calm. How far outside of normal was it?

Lots of people noticed that. (I did.) I think the crowd was looking ahead to Colorado too. (Except the lone Oregon fans sitting right behind us, who acted like he was in Autzen. A long string of F-bombs all game long and basically being an idiot. In the end he was saved from being pummeled by a couple of Ute fans who calmed him down and hustled him out of the stadium. A sore winner.)

[DrumNFeather]

Lots of people noticed that. (I did.) I think the crowd was looking ahead to Colorado too. (Except the lone Oregon fans sitting right behind us, who acted like he was in Autzen. A long string of F-bombs all game long and basically being an idiot. In the end he was saved from being pummeled by a couple of Ute fans who calmed him down and hustled him out of the stadium. A sore winner.)

Seems like Senior day always brings that out in folks.

[sancho]

Lots of people noticed that. (I did.) I think the crowd was looking ahead to Colorado too.

I see that "too" in there. Nothing about this game indicates that the team was looking ahead to CU. We started out by stuffing them on a 4th down and then marching down the field for a TD. We then held them to a FG and moved the ball down to near the red zone before missing on a 4th and 1. We didn't start sluggish or appear to be disinterested. You sited Occam, but the simplest explanation is that we just got outplayed by a talented team that happens to be a tough matchup for our style.

I do think fans were looking ahead, though. I was. It's hard for fans when the CU game is so big and everyone is treating Oregon like a pushover.

[concerned]

Seems like Senior day always brings that out in folks.


I think it is the noon start too. I hate those start times; it always seems as though the crowd is not as animated.

(And please no "that is because you cant be as drunk at noon" jokes).

[sancho]

I think it is the noon start too. I hate those start times; it always seems as though the crowd is not as animated.


Good thing we have a 5:30 start this week. Our little Utah section is going to bring it!

[concerned]

Good thing we have a 5:30 start this week. Our little Utah section is going to bring it!

I just saw that sunset in Boulder will be at 4:38. Thank heaven SLC is on the western edge of a time zone. Rather have light at 5 pm than 6 am

[sancho]

I just saw that sunset in Boulder will be at 4:38. Thank heaven SLC is on the western edge of a time zone. Rather have light at 5 pm than 6 am

At least the forecast is decent. Should be in the 40s and dry during the game. I really hope that holds.

The last Utah event I brought my son to was the Gonzaga game in March. Please, football gods, let this game be close, so we can at least not be sad for 4 hours.

[LA Ute]

I see that "too" in there. Nothing about this game indicates that the team was looking ahead to CU. We started out by stuffing them on a 4th down and then marching down the field for a TD. We then held them to a FG and moved the ball down to near the red zone before missing on a 4th and 1. We didn't start sluggish or appear to be disinterested. You sited Occam, but the simplest explanation is that we just got outplayed by a talented team that happens to be a tough matchup for our style.

I do think fans were looking ahead, though. I was. It's hard for fans when the CU game is so big and everyone is treating Oregon like a pushover.

I'm not buying the "they were more talented so that's why we got beat" explanation. It's too easy. We had no business losing to this Oregon team.

[concerned]

I'm not buying the "they were more talented so that's why we got beat" explanation. It's too easy. We had no business losing to this Oregon team.

Agree 1000000%

If we accept that explanation, we will never be a contender or in the top half of the division.

[sancho]

I'm not buying the "they were more talented so that's why we got beat" explanation. It's too easy. We had no business losing to this Oregon team.

Hey, you're the one who wanted the simple explanation.

There is no simple explanation, but the talent gap is at least a real thing that can be measured.

Some of this is just perception. You already acknowledged your suspicion of late that Utah wasn't as good as our ranking. Utah is the #31 team in the nation according to Sagarin. Oregon is #55. That's not a sure thing kind of difference. (By the way, Sagarin currently has Oregon as the #1 SOS in the nation.)

[SeattleUte]

Agree 1000000%

If we accept that explanation, we will never be a contender or in the top half of the division.

Here's the scorboard (during Oregon's dismal 4-7 season)):

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/2483/class/2017

Occam's razor. Here, as usual, the simple explanation is the right one.

It's been that way year after year for a long time. Check out 2015, their national championship game season. Seven ESPN 300s including one five star. Utah signed its first ESPN 300 last season; this season it has one. Would you trade classes with Oregon? Anyone would.

IF our players are as good as Oregon's, there is only one reason; they were coached up. The coaches did it. You're a mensch but don't be irrational. Clearly the Utes have been contenders but only because of our coaches.

UNLESS, you can criticize their recruiting. Can they recruit better?

[LA Ute]

Hey, you're the one who wanted the simple explanation.

There is no simple explanation, but the talent gap is at least a real thing that can be measured.

Some of this is just perception. You already acknowledged your suspicion of late that Utah wasn't as good as our ranking. Utah is the #31 team in the nation according to Sagarin. Oregon is #55. That's not a sure thing kind of difference. (By the way, Sagarin currently has Oregon as the #1 SOS in the nation.)

Talent surely was a factor but I don't think it tells the whole story. Here's how Oregon ranks statistically in the PAC-12 in some key areas:

Scoring defense 11
Total defense 12
Rushing defense 11
Pass defense 11
Pass defense efficiency 11

http://pac-12.com/content/football-statistics

Against other PAC-12 teams with similar conference rankings we have fared quite well. (Arizona, Arizona State, Cal). No, statistics don't tell the whole story either, but the team laid an egg against Oregon. They were not powerless to do otherwise.

[concerned]

Here's the scorboard (during Oregon's dismal 4-7 season)):

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/2483/class/2017

Occam's razor. Here, as usual, the simple explanation is the right one.

It's been that way year after year for a long time. Check out 2015, their national championship game season. Seven ESPN 300s including one five star. Utah signed its first ESPN 300 last season; this season it has one. Would you trade classes with Oregon? Anyone would.

IF our players are as good as Oregon's, there is only one reason; they were coached up. The coaches did it. You're a mensch but don't be irrational. Clearly the Utes have been contenders but only because of our coaches.

UNLESS, you can criticize their recruiting. Can they recruit better?

You are a depressing defeatist. Time to give up, I suppose. (Man that ad hominem attack feels really good.)

[sancho]

Talent surely was a factor but I don't think it tells the whole story.

I don't either. There are 100 factors.

I don't think you meant to include Cal in your list of teams we've fared well against.

[SeattleUte]

Talent surely was a factor but I don't think it tells the whole story. Here's how Oregon ranks statistically in the PAC-12 in some key areas:

Scoring defense 11
Total defense 12
Rushing defense 11
Pass defense 11
Pass defense efficiency 11

http://pac-12.com/content/football-statistics

Against other PAC-12 teams with similar conference rankings we have fared quite well. (Arizona, Arizona State, Cal). No, statistics don't tell the whole story either, but the team laid an egg against Oregon. They were not powerless to do otherwise.

No doubt. The Utes could have won, and they lost on a last play hell of a catch in the corner of the end zone.

The question is not should they or could they have one this game. The answer is certainly YES! Sancho and I are reasponding to the cries, sky is falling, fire Whit!

The issue, Mr. Federalist society, is what are the odds we would do better or worse with someone else. And remember something we all learned from the tech stock market bubble--in life, there is no floor. There is no bottom. Even UW went 0-13.

[LA Ute]

Time to give up, I suppose.

Only if your view of what the U of U, Salt Lake City, and the State of Utah are, in every respect including athletics, is frozen in about 1982.

[sancho]

You are a depressing defeatist. Time to give up, I suppose.

I think it just takes longer to move up than any of us want. Teams like Utah can move up in recruiting, but it happens very slowly and requires a prolonged era of success (or a miracle coaching hire, I suppose).

We've always known that we have a few built-in advantages that recruiting rankings don't necessarily measure well like the Polynesian pipeline and the LDS pipeline (including the advantages of having returned missionaries on the field). BYU has similar advantages, and they, like us, generally are better than the recruiting rankings would predict.

[SeattleUte]

You are a depressing defeatist. Time to give up, I suppose. (Man that ad hominem attack feels really good.)

Attack? My post doesn't have any attack.

[concerned]

Attack? My post doesn't have any attack.

Mine does; that is what made me feel good. I could get used to this.

[SeattleUte]

Mine does; that is what made me feel good. I could get used to this.

The Utes are an inspiration to me. I follow Georgetown basketball and the Huskies too. They generally do so much less with their talents than Utah, and that is not unusual. Losing with abundant NBA or NFL talent is the worst.

[LA Ute]

I don't either. There are 100 factors.

I don't think you meant to include Cal in your list of teams we've fared well against.

I should have added "for the most part," which is what I meant. The Cal loss was terrible but quite different from Oregon, which was a total collapse (for example, there was nothing in the Cal game comparable to the 250 yards in offense the Ducks ran up in the 4th quarter).

[LA Ute]

The question is not should they or could they have one this game. The answer is certainly YES! Sancho and I are reasponding to the cries, sky is falling, fire Whit!

Those cries are silly. We need Whit to stay.


The issue, Mr. Federalist society, is what are the odds we would do better or worse with someone else. And remember something we all learned from the tech stock market bubble--in life, there is no floor. There is no bottom. Even UW went 0-13.

No disagreement there. I don't belong to the Federalist Society, BTW, although I think it's a fine organization.

[USS Utah]

I don't know, I've never seen him at any of our meetings.


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Wait, I was never informed that there were meetings.

[USS Utah]

Talent surely was a factor but I don't think it tells the whole story. Here's how Oregon ranks statistically in the PAC-12 in some key areas:

Scoring defense 11
Total defense 12
Rushing defense 11
Pass defense 11
Pass defense efficiency 11

http://pac-12.com/content/football-statistics

Against other PAC-12 teams with similar conference rankings we have fared quite well. (Arizona, Arizona State, Cal). No, statistics don't tell the whole story either, but the team laid an egg against Oregon. They were not powerless to do otherwise.

Oregon hired a new defensive coordinator, who changed the defensive scheme. The Ducks have a lot of young, talented players who struggled to master the new scheme, while they also suffered injuries. Playing a top 20 opponent motivated a team with, what, 9-10 games of experience. Utah let that team hang around long enough to get momentum. Instead of being on the verge of collapse, the Ducks found even more motivation in the adversity they experienced during the game.

I have never liked the argument that Team A should never lose to Team B. For one, there is a reason they play the game. Second, even if that was a valid statement in the MWC/WAC days, it clearly is not valid, from my perspective, in a P5 conference.

[justaute]

Next year should be very interesting for Oregon. I didn't realize all of its starting o-linemen were redshirt freshmen.


Oregon hired a new defensive coordinator, who changed the defensive scheme. The Ducks have a lot of young, talented players who struggled to master the new scheme, while they also suffered injuries. Playing a top 20 opponent motivated a team with, what, 9-10 games of experience. Utah let that team hang around long enough to get momentum. Instead of being on the verge of collapse, the Ducks found even more motivation in the adversity they experienced during the game.

I have never liked the argument that Team A should never lose to Team B. For one, there is a reason they play the game. Second, even if that was a valid statement in the MWC/WAC days, it clearly is not valid, from my perspective, in a P5 conference.

[USS Utah]

Next year should be very interesting for Oregon. I didn't realize all of its starting o-linemen were redshirt freshmen.

I don't recall using the words "redshirt freshman." Lower classmen would likely be for accurate.

[justaute]

I don't recall using the words "redshirt freshman." Lower classmen would likely be for accurate.

Wasn't quoting you. Just making an addition observation about Oregon. At least four of its five starting o line are redshirt freshman.


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