Not Interested Thanks - The Official NIT Thread

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Well, we're in! 3 seed to face 6th Boise State on Tuesday night in the Huntsman Center. No risk of running into the Provo Cougs until Madison Square Gardens, which I think would actually be a pretty fun game at that point. Probability: low.


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[Utah]

or, the Not Invited Tournament...

[The Thrill]

Round 1
Syracuse -15 UNCG
Monmouth -2 Ole Miss
Indiana -10 Georgia Tech
Georgia -9 Belmont
----------
Iowa -11 South Dakota
TCU -11 Fresno State
Alabama -7 Richmond
Clemson -10 Oakland
----------
California -11 UCSB
Colorado St -4 Charleston
BYU -5 UT-SA
Houston -10 Akron
----------
Illinois St -11 UC Irvine
Central Florida -2 Colorado
Utah -10 Boise State
Illinois -6 Valparaiso

Round 2

Syracuse -9 Monmouth
Georgia -- Indiana
Iowa -- TCU
Clemson -6 Alabama
California -9 Colorado St
Houston -6 BYU
Illinois St -5 Central Florida
Utah -- Illinois

Round 3
Syracuse -5 Georgia or Indiana -1 Syracuse
California -2 Houston
Clemson -- Iowa or Clemson -- TCU
Illinois St -1 Utah or Illinois St -1 Illinois

Final 4
Syracuse -1 California or Indiana -2 California
Clemson -2 Illinois St or Illinois St -1 Iowa or TCU -2 Illinois St

FINALS
Syracuse -1 Clemson
Syracuse -2 Illinois St
Syracuse -1 TCU
Indiana -2 Clemson
Indiana -3 Illinois St
Indiana -2 TCU

So the way this works is my computer predicts the line, the first 3 rounds utilize the home advantage (higher seed gets home)
If the score prediction is less than 1 the line is --
The next round I predict either team vs the predicted other team. Got it?

Essentially Syracuse or Indiana are favored to come out of the one side.
Clemson, Illinois State and TCU are favored to come out of the other side.

If Utah didn't have to play at Illinois State in the third round I would have them favored, in fact, take out home court and my computer predicts Indiana -1 Utah in the championship game.

Anything can happen but the odds aren't against Utah.

[UTEopia]

I said at the start of the year that I would be happy if this team made the NIT, so I will be at the JMHC Tuesday night. Anyone else going?

[UBlender]

Well, we're in! 3 seed to face 6th Boise State on Tuesday night in the Huntsman Center. No risk of running into the Provo Cougs until Madison Square Gardens, which I think would actually be a pretty fun game at that point. Probability: low.


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I had the same thought. I was very uninterested in a first or second round game against BYU in either Provo or SLC, but....



playing them in MSG in the NIT final would be kind of fun and an interesting footnote in the rivalry.

(Do they still do the third place/consolation game at the NIT final four? I kind of think they don't do it anymore, but I remember Utah playing it in the early Majerus years when we got hosed against Notre Dame in the NIT semifinal. Anyway, I think it would be absolutely hysterical if Utah and BYU played in that consolation game and Larry started the walkons).

If Utah wants it bad enough there is nothing scary in their bracket. But you never know what you are going to get with this team. I think they're equally likely to wheeze out against Boise as they are to make it to New York.

[Utah]

I had the same thought. I was very uninterested in a first or second round game against BYU in either Provo or SLC, but....



playing them in MSG in the NIT final would be kind of fun and an interesting footnote in the rivalry.

(Do they still do the third place/consolation game at the NIT final four? I kind of think they don't do it anymore, but I remember Utah playing it in the early Majerus years when we got hosed against Notre Dame in the NIT semifinal. Anyway, I think it would be absolutely hysterical if Utah and BYU played in that consolation game and Larry started the walkons).

If Utah wants it bad enough there is nothing scary in their bracket. But you never know what you are going to get with this team. I think they're equally likely to wheeze out against Boise as they are to make it to New York.

Or if Larry just forfeited the game.

[DrumNFeather]

Perhaps while Boise is in town, we can get a game on the schedule for next season. While we're at it, give Boheim a call and see if we can get the 'Cuse on the docket as well.

Hopefully the team makes some kind of showing here, if for no other reason than it's a long time until fall camp starts for football.

[mUUser]

.....Hopefully the team makes some kind of showing here, if for no other reason than it's a long time until fall camp starts for football.


Fill it with baseball, preferably Utah baseball. The guy in your avatar plays the game and isn't half bad.

[DrumNFeather]

Fill it with baseball, preferably Utah baseball. The guy in your avatar plays the game and isn't half bad.

Do they show the Ute games on the P12 Networks?

I've gotta figure something out to catch the Nats this year...the stupid sports pack that claims to give you any game at any time doesn't really do that. Might have to invest in extra-innings.

[Mormon Red Death]

Do they show the Ute games on the P12 Networks?

I've gotta figure something out to catch the Nats this year...the stupid sports pack that claims to give you any game at any time doesn't really do that. Might have to invest in extra-innings.
Espnu

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[DrumNFeather]

Espnu

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Sorry, I meant the baseball games. Getting ready to give the Pac 12 Networks the heave-ho until August. We'll get back on track in this thread.

[U-Ute]

I said at the start of the year that I would be happy if this team made the NIT, so I will be at the JMHC Tuesday night. Anyone else going?


My son has a game at the same time, so I'll be recording it.

Just to be clear, I'm recording the Utah game. :)

[Utah]

Utah Baseball games are fantastic to attend. One of my favorite spring time activities.

Aren't season passes like $25 for five? No brainer.

[U-Ute]

Illinois State head coach with an awesome tweet:

841273731880218624

[SeattleUte]

I'm glad LK is our coach. But I'm weary of this reasoning--which I don't get--that the season's a success if you beat low expectations. Isn't part of the job to avoid low expectations in the first place, especially after five years as coach?

[DrumNFeather]

Illinois State head coach with an awesome tweet:

That's awesome. Go for it Larry, get the Redbirds on the slate next year!

[DrumNFeather]

I'm glad LK is our coach. But I'm weary of this reasoning--which I don't get--that the season's a success if you beat low expectations. Isn't part of the job to avoid low expectations in the first place, especially after five years as coach?

You raise an interesting point here. I think that it is probably more about managing expectations than being satisfied that they beat low expectations. When the schedule came out, seems to me that it was a pretty clear sign that the coaching staff was trying to manage their expectations for this season. I mean, Larry has essentially said that everything Pre-Colette and Barefield pretty much doesn't count.

It seems that in any year when you lose the production that we did, just out of the graduates/NBA draft picks, you are going to take a step back, which is fine, but on top of that we saw a significant number of transfers out etc...which, that can be fine too, as we didn't lose a ton of production, but then you ask "Well why did we recruit so and so in the first place..." and so the cycle goes. That is where I think many placed the low expectations. You couple that with three programs being elite this year in the league, and the 4th seed was probably the ceiling given the grand canyon gap between the top 3 and the rest of the league.

Given all of that, do I think they exceeded the managed expectations? I do. But the 4th seed still sort of felt like "Co-South Champs" from a year ago in football. So I'm not sure where that leaves this team.

I do think they need to show something in the NIT. There is no reason that they can't come out of their little pod of 4 with Boise, Illinois (fired coach) and Valpo.

[Utah]

I'm glad LK is our coach. But I'm weary of this reasoning--which I don't get--that the season's a success if you beat low expectations. Isn't part of the job to avoid low expectations in the first place, especially after five years as coach?

I don't know how I feel about where I should put expectations on K. On the one hand, the program was a mess when he came, and this year was the first year he was a bonafide PAC-12 team, full of PAC-12 players and PAC-12 depth. BUT, part of that was his fault. He ran off some talented guys, which set him back a year or two.

I think this is where I stand:

I'm happy with K. I think he has done a good job. There are ways he needs to get better, but I feel good with him here. I do think Tournament is a must for next year.

[Rocker Ute]

I always find it puzzling that a coach doesn't make it to the tournament one year and we are making proclamations that next year is a 'must'. Majerus didn't make the tournament each year (and one might argue that some of the things he did like leaving the team for periods of time for health and personal concerns actually set the team back). Its gonna happen in college basketball.

Notable historically great teams that are in the NIT this year:

Indiana
Syracuse
Utah
Illinois

Among others...

Things swing a lot on very few players. Pick up Markanan (sp) and suddenly we are one of the top seeds this year.

[Utah]

Pick up Markanan (sp) and suddenly we are one of the top seeds this year.

Yet, we didn't.

I think if K doesn't make the tournament next year, brining back everyone from the #4 PAC-12 team, with future NBA player Kuzma, etc, then he deserves any criticism he gets.

So, yeah, proclamations of we "must" make a tournament are justified. I'd be shocked if we didn't make a tourney next year.

It's funny what you pick up out of my post.

[concerned]

Yet, we didn't.

I think if K doesn't make the tournament next year, brining back everyone from the #4 PAC-12 team, with future NBA player Kuzma, etc, then he deserves any criticism he gets.

So, yeah, proclamations of we "must" make a tournament are justified. I'd be shocked if we didn't make a tourney next year.

It's funny what you pick up out of my post.


If Kuzma bolts, the odds might be pretty good that we dont make it. Hope I am wrong, but I would be very surprised if he comes back. I just dont see a reason for him to return; it wont improve his draft stock.

[Utah]

If Kuzma bolts, the odds might be pretty good that we dont make it. Hope I am wrong, but I would be very surprised if he comes back. I just dont see a reason for him to return; it wont improve his draft stock.

If Kuzma bolts, then things change and expectations would change. I don't think Kuzma would bolt, nor do I think it would be a good idea. He can get drafted in the first round if he comes back and improves on this year. If he leaves early, he is a second rounder, borderline making a roster guy. He could easily be a late first round pick if comes back better. If he comes back and hits 40% of his threes, he could make it as a lottery pick. There are MILLIONS of reasons for him to come back. Especially with how good of a big man coach K is. Million of guaranteed reasons. If he bolts this year, there is nothing guaranteed.

It would not be a smart move to leave this year, and if he left and we had more transfers, then I would be ok with a lot of heat on K.

BUT, I don't think that happens. I think K is a great coach. I like what he is building here. This was a down year. No one thought we'd make the tournament, yet we finished fourth in the PAC-12.

We overachieved. It's fantastic.

Going forward, this is what I think: The NIT is irrelevant. I don't care if Utah loses game one or wins its all. It would be nice to add another kid, preferably a PG.

Keep this team together. If we can do those things, we will be a top 4 PAC-12 team, a top 8 NCAA tournament seed, and everyone will be happy again.

I think K should back off the 5 star kids a little and go after some more highly talented 3 and 4 star kids. After he gets to where we are consistently putting kids in the NBA (which he should already be there. Kuzma will go and Johnson and Daniels have potential to go) and making the tournament and win the PAC-12, then the 5 star kids will come.

[Rocker Ute]

Yet, we didn't.

I think if K doesn't make the tournament next year, brining back everyone from the #4 PAC-12 team, with future NBA player Kuzma, etc, then he deserves any criticism he gets.

So, yeah, proclamations of we "must" make a tournament are justified. I'd be shocked if we didn't make a tourney next year.

It's funny what you pick up out of my post.

I wasn't responding to just you, others have said similar things over the season.

[Rocker Ute]

If Kuzma bolts, then things change and expectations would change. I don't think Kuzma would bolt, nor do I think it would be a good idea. He can get drafted in the first round if he comes back and improves on this year. If he leaves early, he is a second rounder, borderline making a roster guy. He could easily be a late first round pick if comes back better. If he comes back and hits 40% of his threes, he could make it as a lottery pick. There are MILLIONS of reasons for him to come back. Especially with how good of a big man coach K is. Million of guaranteed reasons. If he bolts this year, there is nothing guaranteed.

It would not be a smart move to leave this year, and if he left and we had more transfers, then I would be ok with a lot of heat on K.

BUT, I don't think that happens. I think K is a great coach. I like what he is building here. This was a down year. No one thought we'd make the tournament, yet we finished fourth in the PAC-12.

We overachieved. It's fantastic.

Going forward, this is what I think: The NIT is irrelevant. I don't care if Utah loses game one or wins its all. It would be nice to add another kid, preferably a PG.

Keep this team together. If we can do those things, we will be a top 4 PAC-12 team, a top 8 NCAA tournament seed, and everyone will be happy again.

I think K should back off the 5 star kids a little and go after some more highly talented 3 and 4 star kids. After he gets to where we are consistently putting kids in the NBA (which he should already be there. Kuzma will go and Johnson and Daniels have potential to go) and making the tournament and win the PAC-12, then the 5 star kids will come.

I agree that Kuzma has lots of reasons to stay, but unless there is massive improvement across the board I don't see Kuzma ever being a lottery pick. Poeltl was as 9 pick and his skill as a soph, let alone his upside isn't even on the same scale as Kuz. Hey, I'd love for that to happen, but just don't see it in the realm of possibility.

[DrumNFeather]

If Kuzma bolts, then things change and expectations would change. I don't think Kuzma would bolt, nor do I think it would be a good idea. He can get drafted in the first round if he comes back and improves on this year. If he leaves early, he is a second rounder, borderline making a roster guy. He could easily be a late first round pick if comes back better. If he comes back and hits 40% of his threes, he could make it as a lottery pick. There are MILLIONS of reasons for him to come back. Especially with how good of a big man coach K is. Million of guaranteed reasons. If he bolts this year, there is nothing guaranteed.

It would not be a smart move to leave this year, and if he left and we had more transfers, then I would be ok with a lot of heat on K.

BUT, I don't think that happens. I think K is a great coach. I like what he is building here. This was a down year. No one thought we'd make the tournament, yet we finished fourth in the PAC-12.

We overachieved. It's fantastic.

Going forward, this is what I think: The NIT is irrelevant. I don't care if Utah loses game one or wins its all. It would be nice to add another kid, preferably a PG.

Keep this team together. If we can do those things, we will be a top 4 PAC-12 team, a top 8 NCAA tournament seed, and everyone will be happy again.

I think K should back off the 5 star kids a little and go after some more highly talented 3 and 4 star kids. After he gets to where we are consistently putting kids in the NBA (which he should already be there. Kuzma will go and Johnson and Daniels have potential to go) and making the tournament and win the PAC-12, then the 5 star kids will come.

Over the last two seasons, we have played the combo of Arizona/ASU and USC/UCLA both just once. Given that we probably add H/H games with all of those schools next year, that provides Kuzma with a number of in-conference showcase type games, where, you could easily see his stock go up. Add to that some of the other games on the schedule we know of (Butler, Xavier, Ole Miss, BYU) and I think Kuz has every reason to come back.

As for the NIT, I believe that it matters for the young guys. Daniels has been on a milk carton for the better part of a month, so it would be nice to see him regroup a little bit, and, IF we get this whole squad back next year, I'll take as much live work for them as possible.

[Scorcho]

I'm glad LK is our coach. But I'm weary of this reasoning--which I don't get--that the season's a success if you beat low expectations. Isn't part of the job to avoid low expectations in the first place, especially after five years as coach?

excellent point.

I'll give Krysko a mulligan this year, simply because he's never been a head coach this long at the same place and he did deal with the big C in the off-season.

[DrumNFeather]

Illinois State head coach with an awesome tweet:

841273731880218624

BTW...Ole Miss has already answered this challenge.

[concerned]

I agree that Kuzma has lots of reasons to stay, but unless there is massive improvement across the board I don't see Kuzma ever being a lottery pick. Poeltl was as 9 pick and his skill as a soph, let alone his upside isn't even on the same scale as Kuz. Hey, I'd love for that to happen, but just don't see it in the realm of possibility.


Seniors generally don't improve their stock, certainly not anywhere close to the lottery.

There isn't one senior in Draft Express's latest mock draft, which has Kuzma at 51, and the highest senior as the first pick in the second round:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

This nba draft mock has Kuzma at 32 this year, higher than any senior (first senior at 37).

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

If Kuzma isnt a first rounder this year, he most likely wont be next year.

[Rocker Ute]

Seniors generally don't improve their stock, certainly not anywhere close to the lottery.

There isn't one senior in Draft Express's latest mock draft, which has Kuzma at 51, and the highest senior as the first pick in the second round:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

This nba draft mock has Kuzma at 32 this year, higher than any senior (first senior at 37).

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

If Kuzma isnt a first rounder this year, he most likely wont be next year.

That is pretty amazing. What would college b-ball be like if everyone played 4 years...

[concerned]

That is pretty amazing. What would college b-ball be like if everyone played 4 years...

Buddy Hield went 6 last year as a senior, and somebody else went in the 20's. Kaminsky was a first rounder as a senior, but not lottery. They are the exceptions.

[#1 Utefan]

That is pretty amazing. What would college b-ball be like if everyone played 4 years...

Kuz's achille's heel, outside shooting seemrd to be showing some significant improvement the last 2-3 weeks. If he is projected at 51 and a non-guaranteed 2nd round contract, another year of continuing improvement may be enough to get him to the 1st round.

This matters because being drafted in the 1st round carries a guaranteed contract. If he leaves this year, he will likely end up.making 30k in the D-league or a little morevif he goes overseas.

[Utah]

If Kuzma can score 17 and 9 and hit 40% from three with a deep tourney run, he will get drafted 10-20 next year.

Someone with his size and athleticism who can hit the three? That's rare.

A big IF, but he hit 33% this year. If he can sniff 40%, his stock will soar.

[concerned]

Kuz's achille's heel, outside shooting seemrd to be showing some significant improvement the last 2-3 weeks. If he is projected at 51 and a non-guaranteed 2nd round contract, another year of continuing improvement may be enough to get him to the 1st round.

This matters because being drafted in the 1st round carries a guaranteed contract. If he leaves this year, he will likely end up.making 30k in the D-league or a little morevif he goes overseas.

Kuzma shot 33% from 3 this year, and 30% for his career. There has been talk about him moving to the 3 next year, which would give him more oppty to shoot from 3, but wouldn't he have the same problem as Loveridge? too slow to guard the opposing 3? Would ever be quick enough to play the 3 in the NBA, and would he ever shoot an NBA 3 well enough to be a stretch 4? unlikely it seems to me. He is a tweener.

[concerned]

If Kuzma can score 17 and 9 and hit 40% from three with a deep tourney run, he will get drafted 10-20 next year.

Someone with his size and athleticism who can hit the three? That's rare.

A big IF, but he hit 33% this year. If he can sniff 40%, his stock will soar.

he would have to have a senior year like Frank Kaminsky's. I dont see it happening.

[Rocker Ute]

Irrespective of what class they are, just reflecting on the caliber of player who is a lottery pick over the past 10 years Kuzma just doesn't fit the bill. He'd need some drastic improvement beyond 3pt shooting and a lot of that is tied to b-ball IQ and leadership.

That doesn't mean I don't love him or think he isn't NBA potential, just not lotto pick caliber. A really strong senior season MIGHT get him late first round.


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[Rocker Ute]

he would have to have a senior year like Frank Kaminsky's. I dont see it happening.

Perfectly put.


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[SeattleUte]

Kuzma should stay in school. He can have a Frank Kaminsky season. And there are other reasons to stay in school. Like Doug Gottleib says, school has intrinsic value. It would be a big mistake for him to leave with a year left.

Two weeks ago the consensus here was he wasn't even an NBA prospect at all. What's changed?

[concerned]

Kuzma should stay in school. He can have a Frank Kaminsky season. And there are other reasons to stay in school. Like Doug Gottleib says, school has intrinsic value. It would be a big mistake for him to leave with a year left.

Two weeks ago the consensus here was he wasn't even an NBA prospect at all. What's changed?

What has changed is Kuzma showing up on mock drafts and some rumors that he is going to go. He has already graduated (or will this spring), so how much intrinsic value (whatever that is) can there be to hanging around.

I got curious and looked it up. Kuzma this year is essentially the same age that Kaminsky was when drafted (22) Kaminsky is two inches taller. He shot 37.6% from 3 his junior year, and 41.6% his senior year. He was national basketball player of the year in 2015, and led Wisconsin to the title game, as we know. He shoots 33% from the NBA 3 point line.

You really think Kuzma can duplicate that?

[UTEopia]

Utah Baseball games are fantastic to attend. One of my favorite spring time activities.

Aren't season passes like $25 for five? No brainer.

Yes, and you get a nice cap and up to 6 people can go on your pass.

[UTEopia]

Kuzma should stay in school. He can have a Frank Kaminsky season. And there are other reasons to stay in school. Like Doug Gottleib says, school has intrinsic value. It would be a big mistake for him to leave with a year left.

Two weeks ago the consensus here was he wasn't even an NBA prospect at all. What's changed?

I doubt he is a serious NBA prospect. He should, however, declare and get an evaluation or whatever it is the NBA does.

[UTEopia]

If Kuzma can score 17 and 9 and hit 40% from three with a deep tourney run, he will get drafted 10-20 next year.

Someone with his size and athleticism who can hit the three? That's rare.

A big IF, but he hit 33% this year. If he can sniff 40%, his stock will soar.

He has offensive deficiencies, but his defensive deficiencies are significant. He is not big enough or strong enough to guard the 4 and is not quick enough or athletic enough to guard the 3.

[SeattleUte]

I doubt he is a serious NBA prospect. He should, however, declare and get an evaluation or whatever it is the NBA does.

I think he can do that and still return if he doesn't hire an agent.

[UBlender]

I read an article today on NBA draft prospects in the NCAA tourney. It mentioned that, as of today, there is a very real possibility that there won't be a single senior drafted in the first round of this year's draft. Hart from Villanova is the best shot. Kuzma could return and do some good stuff, but I have my doubts that his draft stock would increase. Of course it's possible, but I don't see it as being high probability. He can always work in the D-League or Europe while getting paid and still trying to get to the NBA. If he has his degree, the only reasons to come back are either because he loves his team/school or because he thinks the team can win big next year.

[Old Standing ute]

Boise St. is a decent team---they beat SMU which is 30-4 & a 6 seed in NCAA--Boise was up by 20 at the half & won by 8.

They lost by 5 at Oregon after leading much of the game.

They have big athletic guards--the kind that give the Utes trouble.

Utes are a 10.5 favorite.? But they still better bring their A game or the won't have to worry about playing BYU or anyone else in NY.

[justaute]

Boise St. is a decent team---they beat SMU which is 30-4 & a 6 seed in NCAA--Boise was up by 20 at the half & won by 8.

They lost by 5 at Oregon after leading much of the game.

They have big athletic guards--the kind that give the Utes trouble.

Utes are a 10.5 favorite.? But they still better bring their A game or the won't have to worry about playing BYU or anyone else in NY.

That doesn't sound good for us.

[SeattleUte]

I read an article today on NBA draft prospects in the NCAA tourney. It mentioned that, as of today, there is a very real possibility that there won't be a single senior drafted in the first round of this year's draft. Hart from Villanova is the best shot. Kuzma could return and do some good stuff, but I have my doubts that his draft stock would increase. Of course it's possible, but I don't see it as being high probability. He can always work in the D-League or Europe while getting paid and still trying to get to the NBA. If he has his degree, the only reasons to come back are either because he loves his team/school or because he thinks the team can win big next year.

He can pick up a graduate degree, like Andre did.

[Utah]

Here would be my argument to Kyle:

1 - You are a second rounder this year. The money probably isn't there that you think will be there.

2 - You scored 3, 10, 16 your first three years here. You are getting significantly better every year.

3 - You went from 25% from three last year to 33% this year. And that was with you taking twice as many threes this year.

4 - From three, Kyle was 1.0/2.9 per game. If he can get that up to 1.2/2.9, he's a 40% shooter. He shot 81 threes this year. He made 27. If he gets up to 33, he's a 40% shooter. That is six more makes than this year. He shot 38% from three in PAC-12 play.

5 - His PER has gone from 16, 18, 25. Get that up again for another year.

6 - Work on your defense.

It boils down to this:

Can you get better? Yup.

Can you fix some things this next year? Yup.

If you fix those things, could you be a first rounder? Yup.

If you fixed those things and took Utah on a deep tournament run, could you sneak into the lottery? Yup.

Show the NBA scouts that you can keep getting better. Show them that you can carry a team. Show them you can hit the three ball. If he can get to 40% from three, he becomes very, very, very valuable. And if he can do that and play some defense? He then forces you to consider him at 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, etc.

An instant rotation player who can hit the three. That has a TON of value, especially to a team like Utah, San Antonio, LAC, Boston, etc.

I just don't see a good reason to not come back. Worst case scenario, he comes back, is the same player, and gets drafted in the second round.

[Utebiquitous]

Utah,
Kuzma doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of being a lottery pick. Otherwise, I agree with your points about him staying. There is no question he can improve his standing. He will not be drafted if he chooses to leave this season. I think his ceiling is low first early second. He might be able to play his way into an off the bench stretch four in a few NBA scouts and general managers minds. To get there his shooting must improve again (as you point out) and his defense has to really improve. He'll have to prove to NBA people that he can defend the four position. As Uteopia said earlier today - he hasn't demonstrated that yet. I do think he has the size - see his strong rebounding against bigs in the Pac-12 but he has lacked the will/skill to defend size in the league.

[SeattleUte]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/houston-barber/where-are-all-the-second-_b_9722192.html

[SeattleUte]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/houston-barber/where-are-all-the-second-_b_9722192.html

Poetl signed a two year contract with the Raptors for an average about $2.5 million per annum, with the Raptors owning the option to renew or not after that year. After 2017-18, they can throw him to the curb, and he can make $65,000 per year in Europe. Where he is right now, I'm not sure it made a difference whether he went out after this season or last. $5 million before taxes, etc. may sound like a lot to a 21 year old, but it's really not enough to live well on for a lifetime, whether he gets it during ages 21-22 or 22-23 is really inconsequential. None of these guys we're talking about are going to be in the NBA into their 30s and that extra year of no consequence in the NBA isn't going to add anything.

http://www.raptorshq.com/2016/7/9/12135874/report-raptors-officially-sign-rookies-jakob-poeltl-and-pascal-siakam

[UTEopia]

Poetl signed a two year contract with the Raptors for an average about $2.5 million per annum, with the Raptors owning the option to renew or not after that year. After 2017-18, they can throw him to the curb, and he can make $65,000 per year in Europe. Where he is right now, I'm not sure it made a difference whether he went out after this season or last. $5 million before taxes, etc. may sound like a lot to a 21 year old, but it's really not enough to live well on for a lifetime, whether he gets it during ages 21-22 or 22-23 is really inconsequential. None of these guys we're talking about are going to be in the NBA into their 30s and that extra year of no consequence in the NBA isn't going to add anything.

http://www.raptorshq.com/2016/7/9/12135874/report-raptors-officially-sign-rookies-jakob-poeltl-and-pascal-siakam

It is possible that had Poetl stayed another year his shortcomings would have been exposed and he would have been drafted lower and guaranteed less money. Kuzma isn't a first round pick and there is no guaranteed money for him, so unless he is anxious to play overseas, he should probably stay for his senior year.

[SoCalPat]

Boise lost to only 3 teams in the MWC, but were swept by Nevada, Fresno State and UNM.

Boise went 6-3 on the road in league games and 7-6 overall, but only one (at Nevada) was a true blowout.

Quickie kenpom check says Utah is a more efficient team on offense and defense, Boise plays a little faster and played a much better non-con and marginally lesser schedule overall.

I think that Utah can win, but not as decisively as the line (11.5-12) is saying it should.

[Rocker Ute]

Boise lost to only 3 teams in the MWC, but were swept by Nevada, Fresno State and UNM.

Boise went 6-3 on the road in league games and 7-6 overall, but only one (at Nevada) was a true blowout.

Quickie kenpom check says Utah is a more efficient team on offense and defense, Boise plays a little faster and played a much better non-con and marginally lesser schedule overall.

I think that Utah can win, but not as decisively as the line (11.5-12) is saying it should.

Add in that I don't think there is a guy on the team who cares about a deep NIT run and I put this as a likely upset. I'm not much of one to be a downer on our team, but I think we lose this one.

[SeattleUte]

It is possible that had Poetl stayed another year his shortcomings would have been exposed and he would have been drafted lower and guaranteed less money. Kuzma isn't a first round pick and there is no guaranteed money for him, so unless he is anxious to play overseas, he should probably stay for his senior year.

When I was a kid people used to say college isn't for anybody. Now it's clear that unless you are an entertainer or entrepreneur in a truly freakishly elite class more education is better. These guys are going to need degrees, almost every one of them. That's going to be more and more true as they get older, as robots start not only driving ubers and making lattes and laying brick but also cleaning our teeth and even doing open heart surgery and writing legal briefs.

[U-Ute]

When I was a kid people used to say college isn't for anybody. Now it's clear that unless you are an entertainer or entrepreneur in a truly freakishly elite class more education is better. These guys are going to need degrees, almost every one of them. That's going to be more and more true as they get older, as robots start not only driving ubers and making lattes and laying brick but also cleaning our teeth and even doing open heart surgery and writing legal briefs.


Anything that requires any sort of interview where the interviewers are choosing who to interview based on resume, you need a college education. A college degree now is what a high school degree was 50 years ago: the minimum bar used to filter out applicants.

[LA Ute]

What is it with this Hutchison guy? He has scored more than half of Boise's points. I'm listening on the radio and Riley is pointing out that there always seems to be someone on the opposing team who just goes off on the Utes.

[chrisrenrut]

What is it with this Hutchison guy? He has scored more than half of Boise's points. I'm listening on the radio and Riley is pointing out that there always seems to be someone on the opposing team who just goes off on the Utes.

Our defensive focus is taking away three pointers. It's opening up driving lanes, and our guards aren't known for denying penetration. A couple of the shots he were pretty high on the difficulty scale.

[chrisrenrut]

Halftime observations:

BSU 0-8 from 3 point line

Utah has 10 assists on its 15 made shots

evety other stat other than the score are eerily close or the same.

[LA Ute]

I just tuned back in for the last 2 1/2 minutes. I'm glad I did not watch or listen to this. And I must admit that for the first time ever, after decades of being a Utah fan, I actually laughed out loud when I realized what was happening. Sad.


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[hostile]

Blech. Last 4 minutes were awful.

[Utah]

yikes.

[Solon]

yikes.
The Utes looked like they realized late in the game that, if they won, they would have to do all of this all over again.
How else to explain the complete disinterest they showed in the last 6 minutes of the game?

This should put to rest the Kuzma-turning-pro rumors. He wasn't even the best player on the floor tonight.

[Scorcho]

maybe that stinging loss will bring some fire over the off season

meanwhile Cal is down 44-19 to CSU Bakersfield at the half

[DrumNFeather]

I just tuned back in for the last 2 1/2 minutes. I'm glad I did not watch or listen to this. And I must admit that for the first time ever, after decades of being a Utah fan, I actually laughed out loud when I realized what was happening. Sad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You missed out man...it was really awesome when we were up by 10...now, the last 8 minutes or so, yes, that was miserable. So much for the NIT not meaning anything... this sends us crashing into the offseason.

[justaute]

At least we have a good ski team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scorcho]

Ivan Rabb opted not to play today, and they are still without Jabari Bird. That explains some of Cal's horribleness

[Old Standing ute]

I have defended Larry K., but this one is on him.

Not sure what the plan was to start Rawson, Kuzma, Collette, Bealer & Bonam. But it did not work to start the game yet they did it in the 2nd half too. Rawson was horrible.
And they had no idea what to do with Hutchinson---double team him every time he touches the ball????take it out of his hands. he is really a good player, but he was their whole team.

And once again Utes lack of shooting killed them. Every team packs it in because they can't shoot. Plus they can't hit FTs.

Boise is really a bad team----

not sure what that makes the Utes.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Ivan Rabb opted not to play today, and they are still without Jabari Bird. That explains some of Cal's horribleness

Our guys would have been a LOT more interested in this game if we were the #1 team in the tourney!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[justaute]

I have defended Larry K., but this one is on him.

Not sure what the plan was to start Rawson, Kuzma, Collette, Bealer & Bonam. But it did not work to start the game yet they did it in the 2nd half too. Rawson was horrible.
And they had no idea what to do with Hutchinson---double team him every time he touches the ball????take it out of his hands. he is really a good player, but he was their whole team.

And once again Utes lack of shooting killed them. Every team packs it in because they can't shoot. Plus they can't hit FTs.

Boise is really a bad team----

not sure what that makes the Utes.

Don't think BSU is really bad. Remember, it beat SMU and lost at Oregon by 5. That Hutchison kid is a stud -- inside & outside. It has more effective guards than we do. Its bigs are not as good as Collette, but are better than we have on the bench, IMO. Our recruiting has been quite sub-par based on what I've seen so far. Just really low BB IQ.

[NorthwestUteFan]

We keep complaining about 'low Basketball IQ', but at which point does that fall on the coaches and a lack of (or improper) preparation?

Maybe our coaching staff has a low BBall IQ.

[justaute]

We keep complaining about 'low Basketball IQ', but at which point does that fall on the coaches and a lack of (or improper) preparation?

Maybe our coaching staff has a low BBall IQ.

Don't disagree at all.

[LA Ute]

We keep complaining about 'low Basketball IQ', but at which point does that fall on the coaches and a lack of (or improper) preparation?

Maybe our coaching staff has a low BBall IQ.

Or are just not good teachers.

[justaute]

Well, I've said this before. Per Whit, it's always on the coaches -- you either can't coach-up the players or you are not recruiting right.

[DrumNFeather]

Well, I've said this before. Per Whit, it's always on the coaches -- you either can't coach-up the players or you are not recruiting right.

Whit always puts it on himself and the coaches...Larry doesn't seem to do that.

[UTEopia]

Kuzma is not an NBA player. Anyone who seriously believes he is should watch how he was unable to guard Boise's No. 15. Of course, none of the Utes who were put against him (Bonam, Barefield, Bealer) guarded him, but he is a guy that Kuzma would need to be able to defend.

[Two Utes]

Kuzma is not an NBA player. Anyone who seriously believes he is should watch how he was unable to guard Boise's No. 15. Of course, none of the Utes who were put against him (Bonam, Barefield, Bealer) guarded him, but he is a guy that Kuzma would need to be able to defend.

Where's the help? Where's the defensive rotation from the weak side? You can't even touch guys anymore on defense. You need guys who are willing to play team defense and rotate. That requires effort and IQ. That wasn't happening last night. And, Hutchinson unsurprisingly went off for 34. That's not on Kuzma. Kuzma's the best player on this team and by all accounts a really good kid. If you lose him, you lose a ton off this team.

As for Daniels, there are just too many fucking punks in college basketball and he's one of them. He thinks he's a pro. He's not a pro. He's too small. He has no chance. Sometimes you get punks on your team and it absolutely affects the team chemistry. One need look no farther than him to understand why this team has troubles in that department.

Boogie Cousins is an awesome basketball player. But's he's never gonna be a champion on a team because he's a fucking cancer. Gotta get rid of Daniels, regardless of whether any of you think he's awesome. He's a cancer.

[Two Utes]

Where's the help? Where's the defensive rotation from the weak side? You can't even touch guys anymore on defense. You need guys who are willing to play team defense and rotate. They requires effort and IQ. That wasn't happening last night. And, Hutchinson unsurprisingly went off for 34. That's not on Kuzma. Kuzma's the best player on this team and by all accounts a really good kid. If you lose him, you lose a ton off this team.

As for Daniels, there are just too many fucking punks in college basketball and he's one of them. He thinks he's a pro. He's not a pro. He's too small. He has no chance. Sometimes you get punks on your team and it absolutely affects the team chemistry. One need look no farther than him to understand why this team has troubles in that department.

Boogie Cousins is an awesome basketball player. But's he's never gonna be a champion on a team because he's a fucking cancer. Gotta get rid of Daniels, regardless of whether any of you think he's awesome. He's a cancer.


And last, if Larry has lost his fire or is too bothered by the BYU thing, then quit for god sakes. The BYU thing comes with the territory. Anybody who gets hired has to deal with the BYU thing. Again though, I thought the coaches did great this year except in one area. Everything would have been fine this year had the coaches scheduled the preseason better. But they wanted wins rather than have a chance at the NCAA tourney. That's weak sauce, ego-driven and ends up in a effortless NIT game.

[U-Ute]

Two Utes throwing fire. Whether I agree or not, I love the passion.

8703uAG3krXPO

[UBlender]

And last, if Larry has lost his fire or is too bothered by the BYU thing, then quit for god sakes. The BYU thing comes with the territory. Anybody who gets hired has to deal with the BYU thing. Again though, I thought the coaches did great this year except in one area. Everything would have been fine this year had the coaches scheduled the preseason better. But they wanted wins rather than have a chance at the NCAA tourney. That's weak sauce, ego-driven and ends up in a effortless NIT game.

That was one thought I had leaving the game last night. This team had real trouble maintaining focus and effort for an entire half. They would often have a couple of nice runs during a game and then go to sleep for long periods of time. I started to wonder if the ultra-soft preseason schedule conditioned them to coast for long stretches. When you play 10 games early on where you don't have to play hard for very long maybe it becomes a habit that you can't break when it matters.

[concerned]

Where's the help? Where's the defensive rotation from the weak side? You can't even touch guys anymore on defense. You need guys who are willing to play team defense and rotate. That requires effort and IQ. That wasn't happening last night. And, Hutchinson unsurprisingly went off for 34. That's not on Kuzma. Kuzma's the best player on this team and by all accounts a really good kid. If you lose him, you lose a ton off this team.

As for Daniels, there are just too many fucking punks in college basketball and he's one of them. He thinks he's a pro. He's not a pro. He's too small. He has no chance. Sometimes you get punks on your team and it absolutely affects the team chemistry. One need look no farther than him to understand why this team has troubles in that department.

Boogie Cousins is an awesome basketball player. But's he's never gonna be a champion on a team because he's a fucking cancer. Gotta get rid of Daniels, regardless of whether any of you think he's awesome. He's a cancer.

I was listening to LK's radio show a couple of weeks ago. He said he has complained to the Pac about officiating--he said the way fouls are called down low, they have taken the post player out of the game--it is impossible to play defense. Said it is a problem in college bb overall. collette breathes and he gets a foul, mostly because he is undersized and tries to compensate. He is a complete liability on defense, as you imply.

p.s.--are you saying that you think they will force Daniels out?

[Two Utes]

I was listening to LK's radio show a couple of weeks ago. He said he has complained to the Pac about officiating--he said the way fouls are called down low, they have taken the post player out of the game--it is impossible to play defense. Said it is a problem in college bb overall. collette breathes and he gets a foul, mostly because he is undersized and tries to compensate. He is a complete liability on defense, as you imply.

p.s.--are you saying that you think they will force Daniels out?

That, and Collette is not a great post defender. And by the way, some of the shots Rawson took last not--sheesh. They gave rawson a ton off rope this year on offense. He never earned the rope.

I don't think they will force Daniels out. He will probably just leave. They will try to salvage it. They should boot him. But most coaches think they can change people.

[Old Standing ute]

That, and Collette is not a great post defender. And by the way, some of the shots Rawson took last not--sheesh. They gave rawson a ton off rope this year on offense. He never earned the rope.

I don't think they will force Daniels out. He will probably just leave. They will try to salvage it. They should boot him. But most coaches think they can change people.

Daniels needs to grow up----he is only 18. He plays hard.

Example of low BB IQ--( & something that really bugged me)--down by 6 with about 1:45 left & Ute ball after a BSU basket. Bonam walks the ball up the court. Doesn't take much of a BB IQ to know you need to be in a hurry at that point. that is not teaching that is just using your head.

Somehow they needed to take Hutchinson out of the game. The rest of the Boise team was not good.

P.S. I told Hutchinson to study hard & graduate early & come here & play in the big leagues---he laughed pretty hard--I guess that is a no.?

[arizonaute]

This team had real trouble maintaining focus and effort for an entire half. They would often have a couple of nice runs during a game and then go to sleep for long periods of time.

This is a Larry problem that has been around alot longer then this year.

[SoCalPat]

I become more and more of a casual observer of U. hoops next year if Larry doesn't do something with the staff. They were underwhelming when they arrived, they underwhelm today. Part of me wants to cut Larry a lot of slack because of the dead wood on the bench, but the other part of me wonders if he looks at his assistants like he does non-conference scheduling and believes he's got it all figured out.

[Utah]

I become more and more of a casual observer of U. hoops next year if Larry doesn't do something with the staff. They were underwhelming when they arrived, they underwhelm today. Part of me wants to cut Larry a lot of slack because of the dead wood on the bench, but the other part of me wonders if he looks at his assistants like he does non-conference scheduling and believes he's got it all figured out.

Ithink
I think he needs to take a page out of the Whitt handbook. Sure, Whitt's offenses suck, but at least the guy tries to fix the problem. K needs to look in the mirror, see where he lacks as a coach, and go find his Dennis Erickson.

[SoCalPat]

Ithink
I think he needs to take a page out of the Whitt handbook. Sure, Whitt's offenses suck, but at least the guy tries to fix the problem. K needs to look in the mirror, see where he lacks as a coach, and go find his Dennis Erickson.

What a great example. Fresh off his first losing season as HC, and Kyle goes out and gets a guy completely foreign to the program, and one who won two national titles to boot.

[snafu]

What a great example. Fresh off his first losing season as HC, and Kyle goes out and gets a guy completely foreign to the program, and one who won two national titles to boot.

And yet, we have zero to show for it. Our offense still sucks.

[SoCalPat]

And yet, we have zero to show for it. Our offense still sucks.

Zero to show for it? Are you kidding? We don't make the inroads we did in Florida recruiting without DE. That's not a gift that's gonna keep on giving, but to say we've got zero to show for Erickson's time at Utah is short-sighted.

[snafu]

Zero to show for it? Are you kidding? We don't make the inroads we did in Florida recruiting without DE. That's not a gift that's gonna keep on giving, but to say we've got zero to show for Erickson's time at Utah is short-sighted.

The whole reason for bringing him in was to revitalize the offense, particularly the passing game. That continues to be our Achilles heel to this day. Nobody has been able to solve that riddle. Props to Dennis for his recruiting prowess but we have zero league championships, not even a south championship to show for it.

[SoCalPat]

The whole reason for bringing him in was to revitalize the offense, particularly the passing game. That continues to be our Achilles heel to this day. Nobody has been able to solve that riddle. Props to Dennis for his recruiting prowess but we have zero league championships, not even a south championship to show for it.

Utah was in triple digits nationally the year before DE arrived. We've averaged about 35-40 spots higher during his tenure. We're average at best offensively but that's a far cry from where we were before DE arrived. One man can only do so much, and DE isn't even a coordinator.

[UTEopia]

Where's the help? Where's the defensive rotation from the weak side? You can't even touch guys anymore on defense. You need guys who are willing to play team defense and rotate. That requires effort and IQ. That wasn't happening last night. And, Hutchinson unsurprisingly went off for 34. That's not on Kuzma. Kuzma's the best player on this team and by all accounts a really good kid. If you lose him, you lose a ton off this team.



I didn't say Kuzma wasn't a good kid or the best player on our team. I said he is not an NBA player.