The Football Scheduling Thread

[DrumNFeather]

We don't have a thread dedicated to discussing the Football scheduling for the Utes in the future.

Today it was announced that we will play @ Wyoming in 2020 and vs. Wyoming at home in 2025.

Here's where we sit for now:

2019

8/29 @BYU
9/7 Northern Illinois
9/14 Idaho St.

2020

9/5 - BYU
9/12 - Montana St.
9/19 - @Wyoming

2021

9/2 - Weber St.
9/11 @ BYU
9/18 @ SDSU

2022

@ Florida
9/10 - Southern Utah
9/17 - SDSU

2023

8/31 vs. Weber St.
9/9 @Baylor
Florida

2024

8/29 - SUU
9/7 - BYU
9/14 - Baylor

2025

9/6 - Wyoming

2026

9/5 - @Houston
9/12 - vs. Arkansas

2027

9/11 - vs. Houston

2028

9/12 - @Arkansas

[DrumNFeather]

Not totally thrilled that in many of our OOC games, we're hitting the road first, to say nothing of the opponents.

[sancho]

Well, at least I can go to a game in Laramie. It's only a few hours' drive.

But, yeah, not very exciting.

[concerned]

Not totally thrilled that in many of our OOC games, we're hitting the road first, to say nothing of the opponents.

Not totally thrilled? Not thrilled one iota is more accurate.

[mUUser]

Sure don't want to stretch ourselves in any way do we? Yuck

[sancho]

Sure don't want to stretch ourselves in any way do we? Yuck

To be fair, we are stretched to the limit when you look at the entire schedule.

[SoCalPat]

Sure don't want to stretch ourselves in any way do we? Yuck

We're not beating down the door to play P5s, and apparently vice-versa. We're also in zero position to command one-offs against G5s -- think of all the H-H deals we signed with PAC 10 schools when we were in the MWC. Assuming otherwise on that puts you deep in the throes of Big Britches Syndrome. Even Chris Hill says it's a non-starter.

Once you accept those two matters as inevitables that aren't gonna change anytime soon, the Wyoming series looks a lot better. It's a program on the rise, we have a ton of history with them and it's an easy trip for fans. Those are all things that San Jose State and Northern Illinois are not, although there are recruiting benefits to SJSU that aren't part of this deal with Wyoming.

As far as scheduling sizzle goes on a 1-10 scale, if BYU is a baseline 5, and an FCS school is a 1, then this rates as a solid 6. By the time 2020 rolls around, if Wyoming is a steady 8-9 win team, it's a 7. If it reverts to the form it has known for much of the last 15 years, it can't get any worse than a 4. We can do much, much worse by dipping into the G5 pool, yet this is still a ways from scheduling a name P5.

We still have a spot open for 2020. Scheduling an FCS game here is obviously the huge favorite from an odds standpoint, but I'll always hold out hope that we can sign a P5 to a H-H where they come to SLC first.

[U-Ute]

If Wyoming is replacing the 1-AA games those years, I'm good with that.

Not sexy, but will play tough.

[Ma'ake]

Not totally thrilled that in many of our OOC games, we're hitting the road first, to say nothing of the opponents.

Hey, at least we're not playing night games... in November... in Laramie.

Notable games at Laramie:

1. With the attendance of 43 drunk / insane WYO fans as witnesses, Kautai Olevao and Wes Tufaga threw people around with bare arms, temperature at kickoff at 2F.

2. 2004 - Half the stadium's power goes out, causing Channel 4 to switch to Harry Potter (which they contractually couldn't halt when the game resumed), and Bill Marcroft announced Wesley Ruff's phone number on the air... a perfect story for Marcroft's last season.

The nice thing about playing G5 / MWC teams, is while we're getting our offense figured out, and Scalley's getting the full compliment of defensive pressure packages installed, we play teams that have decent talent, but our lines make the outcome a foregone conclusion, unless there's a series of massive screwups... which there pretty much never is.

[sancho]

The nice thing about playing G5 / MWC teams, is while we're getting our offense figured out, and Scalley's getting the full compliment of defensive pressure packages installed, we play teams that have decent talent, but our lines make the outcome a foregone conclusion, unless there's a series of massive screwups... which there pretty much never is.

I hope the offense is fully installed by the time we travel to Laramie in 2020.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

[SoCalPat]

Hey, at least we're not playing night games... in November... in Laramie.

Notable games at Laramie:

1. With the attendance of 43 drunk / insane WYO fans as witnesses, Kautai Olevao and Wes Tufaga threw people around with bare arms, temperature at kickoff at 2F.

2. 2004 - Half the stadium's power goes out, causing Channel 4 to switch to Harry Potter (which they contractually couldn't halt when the game resumed), and Bill Marcroft announced Wesley Ruff's phone number on the air... a perfect story for Marcroft's last season.

The nice thing about playing G5 / MWC teams, is while we're getting our offense figured out, and Scalley's getting the full compliment of defensive pressure packages installed, we play teams that have decent talent, but our lines make the outcome a foregone conclusion, unless there's a series of massive screwups... which there pretty much never is.

I wouldn't call our 2020 roadie to Wyoming a foregone conclusion just yet -- anyone who can topple Boise State with a coach who kickstarted the dynasty Craig Bohl did at North Dakota State has to be taken seriously. But yeah, even after their greatest season in nearly 20 years, Wyoming was pretty bad on defense. My guess is it's either feast for famine for Wyoming by then -- Bohl could be the MWC's next Chris Peterson, churning out double-digit wins on a near-annual basis, or Bohl takes a better job (he'll eventually end up at Nebraska if he sees huge success at Wyoming and wants something more) and Wyoming sinks back to being a sub-.500 team with regularity.

[SoCalPat]

I hope the offense is fully installed by the time we travel to Laramie in 2020.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

This is the tongue-in-cheek type of humor I'm fully incapable of delivering.

[Utah]

The OOC is by no means exciting...but that isn't a bad thing. Utah needs as many wins as possible every year. There is no downside to scheduling down.

[DrumNFeather]

Southern Utah added to the 2024 schedule (8/29).

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Sigh.

[SoCalPat]

Southern Utah added to the 2024 schedule (8/29).

That we're inking deals with FCS schools seven years out is indisputable proof we're not interested in playing any P5s at all in the non-con. By the time the 2024 season is over, we'll have inked all of two such deals in 14 years -- Michigan and Baylor. If we're ever to be in the CPP mix as a one-loss team, we need BYU to be damn good. Because our non-con largely sucks for the next decade.

[justaute]

CPP...we can't even win our division. :)


That we're inking deals with FCS schools seven years out is indisputable proof we're not interested in playing any P5s at all in the non-con. By the time the 2024 season is over, we'll have inked all of two such deals in 14 years -- Michigan and Baylor. If we're ever to be in the CPP mix as a one-loss team, we need BYU to be damn good. Because our non-con largely sucks for the next decade.

[mUUser]

Southern Utah added to the 2024 schedule (8/29).


What's our big marquee games from now till 2024. Baylor in 23-24? Come on fellas, it appears we're in a race to the OOC scheduling cellar with Arizona and WSU. Pathetic.

[sancho]

What's our big marquee games from now till 2024. Baylor in 23-24? Come on fellas, it appears we're in a race to the OOC scheduling cellar with Arizona and WSU. Pathetic.

True, but we still end up with a very tough overall SOS.

[DrumNFeather]

That we're inking deals with FCS schools seven years out is indisputable proof we're not interested in playing any P5s at all in the non-con. By the time the 2024 season is over, we'll have inked all of two such deals in 14 years -- Michigan and Baylor. If we're ever to be in the CPP mix as a one-loss team, we need BYU to be damn good. Because our non-con largely sucks for the next decade.

Yeah - my question would be...are they even having these conversations with other teams.

Let's take a look at a few random teams:

Kansas St - in 2023 (granted, we play Baylor that year), they currently have nobody on the schedule. You could, in theory play them in 2023 in RES and in 2025 at KSU
Iowa - from 2021 and beyond, they only have Iowa St. on the schedule...a home and home with the Hawkeyes would be lovely. 2020 in RES, 2025 at Iowa
Texas A&M - Remember when we played them? Two good games. They've got a home and home with Colorado in 2020 and 2021 - wide open beyond that (Notre Dame and Miami, but once each year).
The Fighting Mendenhalls - Would be available in 2022 and beyond for a home and home (I'd kick SUU to the curb in 2022).

Again, I get the A, B, C, scheduling model the Dr. Hill wants to try to promote...but right now we're chalked full of Bs and Cs...If we want to call BYU an A game, I think you could maybe make that argument when we play them on the road. At home, I expect to win now every time.

So I repeat my question...are these discussions even going on inside our football facility?

[sancho]

So I repeat my question...are these discussions even going on inside our football facility?

Of course they are. It's not clear that a tougher schedule is in our best interests.

[Utah]

Of course they are. It's not clear that a tougher schedule is in our best interests.

Exactly.

[Utah]

Until a team with an equivalent or worse record than us is selected for the playoffs over us, this is the right strategy.

It's the smart strategy.

[DrumNFeather]

Of course they are. It's not clear that a tougher schedule is in our best interests.

There has to be some kind of happy medium between tough and terrible.

[sancho]

There has to be some kind of happy medium between tough and terrible.

Happy medium between tough and ultra tough. We already play a top 30 schedule every year. It's not wise to push for a top 10 schedule unless we really believe we have a top 10 program.

That said, I'd love to rotate BYU off in favor of a P5 every once in a while. That seems to be the best solution. We already successfully piloted that program.

[DrumNFeather]

Happy medium between tough and ultra tough. We already play a top 30 schedule every year. It's not wise to push for a top 10 schedule unless we really believe we have a top 10 program.

That said, I'd love to rotate BYU off in favor of a P5 every once in a while. That seems to be the best solution. We already successfully piloted that program.

Well, I'm speaking specifically to our non-conference schedule. Clearly our league schedule is difficult, and especially in a year like this where Cal and Oregon St. are not on it, it's even tougher. I'm even fine with the A, B, C, mode of thinking...but I think that who falls under what category needs to be evaluated a little more closely.

For example, if we want to call BYU our "A" game when we play in Provo, I think that's fine...but if we do that, we should be looking to bring someone into RES in those years as a "B" game that generates some excitement. I think the SDSU game in a few years probably does that. SJSU, Wyoming, and No. Illinois, however, do not.

[SoCalPat]

Happy medium between tough and ultra tough. We already play a top 30 schedule every year. It's not wise to push for a top 10 schedule unless we really believe we have a top 10 program.

That said, I'd love to rotate BYU off in favor of a P5 every once in a while. That seems to be the best solution. We already successfully piloted that program.

Utah's SOS per Sagarin since 2011:

2016: 60th
2015: 28th
2014: 36th
2013: 3rd
2012: 41st
2011: 49th

Average: 36th. Toss out the high/low, and it's 38.5. Take out 2013, and it's 42.6.

I suspect this year will be closer to 2013, so it's not wise to say we play less than a top 40 schedule. Top 30 is pushing it, but far from being wildly inaccurate.

I think there's room to go A-A-C, or B-B-B. I think it's a fallacy to say every week is a grind in the Pac-12, because too often, we play down to our competition. We create that grind more than other teams creating it for us. Would scheduling up in the non-con help us avoid the letdowns we see against Pac-12 teams that are inferior or having a down year? There's simply not enough evidence to say.

What there is enough evidence of, is a 1-loss Utah team competing against other 1-loss teams for a spot in the playoff will likely be left out with a SOS in the mid to low 30s.

2016: 3-1-6-53, average of 15.75
2015: 1-21-20-30, average of 18
2014: 29-2-20-21, average of 18

Are we scheduling to compete/win in the Pac-12, or are we scheduling with bigger goals in mind? It would be a tough pill to swallow if a one-loss Utah team got shut out of the playoff because we believe we scheduled A-B-C, but the results were closer to B-C-C. I think in the big picture, there's very little to lose by scheduling up, but the price you pay for scheduling down could be a killer. Programs like Utah get generational bites at the playoff apple.

[sancho]

I think in the big picture, there's very little to lose by scheduling up

I agree with everything you said except this. There is risk either way. Maybe we go 13-0 and grab a playoff spot because of a weaker non-conf. Maybe harder games cause us to miss a bowl game one year or cause us to miss a top 25 ranking. Maybe a tougher grind takes a brutal toll on performance or depth.

I'd be excited to see better teams on our schedule, but, man, let's not forget how amazing our schedules already are.

[sancho]

B" game that generates some excitement. I think the SDSU game in a few years probably does that. SJSU, Wyoming, and No. Illinois, however, do not.

I think we differ a bit here. I am not going to be particularly excited about any G5 team except boise or a game I can drive to. If we want to upgrade, we need to do it with P5 games.

[DrumNFeather]

I think we differ a bit here. I am not going to be particularly excited about any G5 team except boise or a game I can drive to. If we want to upgrade, we need to do it with P5 games.

Oh believe you me, I was stretching to call SDSU an exciting game. I mean, if we were playing Wyoming this year with Josh Allen as a potential top 3 QB in next year's draft, that would be interesting. Absent that, I agree with you.

[Utah]

I love how the schedule up drum beaters are the first to call for coaches heads when the wins aren't there.

You get USC, UCLA, Colorado, and the Arizonas every year. You also get one or more of Washington, Oregon and Stanford.

Now, on top of that, what's more important? Playing another P5 school or more likely Hood of more wins, higher ranking, higher recruiting, higher prestige, etc?

It's really a no brainer. For the level of program we are, scheduling up is just dumb.

There is nothing to be gained and everything to lose. It's on the same level of idea as playing BYU every year.

It makes no sense.

[Utah]

Also, where are you getting your SOS info from? Because of it is season ending, then the SOS is inflated due to a conference champ game and at least one playoff game.

Anyways, talk of playoffs is foolish at this point. You need top 10 recruiting classes for that. We aren't there yet.

Let's go win the south. Scheduling down helps us do that.

[SoCalPat]

I agree with everything you said except this. There is risk either way. Maybe we go 13-0 and grab a playoff spot because of a weaker non-conf. Maybe harder games cause us to miss a bowl game one year or cause us to miss a top 25 ranking. Maybe a tougher grind takes a brutal toll on performance or depth.

I'd be excited to see better teams on our schedule, but, man, let's not forget how amazing our schedules already are.

Those are largely inconsequential feats. So what if we miss a bowl game? We missed two earlier this decade and followed it up with a 28-11 run.

Once you get past the top 10, few fan bases beat their chests over a ranking 11-25.

You think those are significant accomplishments every year, and that's fine. For me, in some years (2014) they are significant. In some years, like last year, they do nothing for me.

If we go 13-0, we're in the playoff 99 seasons out of 100. Going 12-1 at least once in the next 10 years is much more likely than going 13-0. Again, we are not the kind of program that gets multiple bites at the playoff apple. So when those seasons come around, why not implement a scheduling strategy that's more likely to get you in the playoff rather than leaving you out?

[SoCalPat]

I love how the schedule up drum beaters are the first to call for coaches heads when the wins aren't there.

You get USC, UCLA, Colorado, and the Arizonas every year. You also get one or more of Washington, Oregon and Stanford.

Now, on top of that, what's more important? Playing another P5 school or more likely Hood of more wins, higher ranking, higher recruiting, higher prestige, etc?

It's really a no brainer. For the level of program we are, scheduling up is just dumb.

There is nothing to be gained and everything to lose. It's on the same level of idea as playing BYU every year.

It makes no sense.

Nobody's beaten up Kyle for losing to USC two years ago, or Washington last year. We beat him up for losing big games in November, or like Cal last year.

And as far as scheduling up goes, we're really talking about one game in our schedule. Which we can afford to do.

[SoCalPat]

Also, where are you getting your SOS info from? Because of it is season ending, then the SOS is inflated due to a conference champ game and at least one playoff game.

Anyways, talk of playoffs is foolish at this point. You need top 10 recruiting classes for that. We aren't there yet.

Let's go win the south. Scheduling down helps us do that.

Because scheduling down has worked so well for us in basketball, hasn't it?

[Utah]

Because scheduling down has worked so well for us in basketball, hasn't it?

Basketball and football are two different beasts and it isn't smart to compare them.

BTW, how has this scheduling strategy hurt us the last few years?

What teams have been ranked in every single college football poll?

Were we not top 10 and top 3 with our schedule?

We don't need to schedule up. We need to win games in Nov.

[Scorcho]

Basketball and football are two different beasts and it isn't smart to compare them.

BTW, how has this scheduling strategy hurt us the last few years?

What teams have been ranked in every single college football poll?

Were we not top 10 and top 3 with our schedule?

We don't need to schedule up. We need to win games in Nov.

completely agree!

and you can make a valid argument that a lighter OOC football schedule will leave the team more rested come November. I will give credence to Andy Phillips and Tom Hacket who both claimed the reason for Utah's late season swoons were due to mental and physical fatigue. They both believed that they were putting in more time that other PAC-12 schools.


OOC Schedules across the country:

Wisconsin - Utah State, FAU, BYU
Colorado - CSU, Texas State, Northern Colorado
Baylor - Duke, Liberty, Texas San Antonio
Penn St - Akron, Pitt, Georgia St
Oregon - Nebraska, SUU, Wyoming
Missouri - Missouri St, Purdue, Idaho

[DrumNFeather]

Chris Hill did mention yesterday on the Bill Reilly show that they need to reevaluate how they approach the football schedule moving forward. I feel like that alone allows SCP and I to sneak out of this discussion with the tag team titles on this issue...for now.

[SoCalPat]

completely agree!

and you can make a valid argument that a lighter OOC football schedule will leave the team more rested come November. I will give credence to Andy Phillips and Tom Hacket who both claimed the reason for Utah's late season swoons were due to mental and physical fatigue. They both believed that they were putting in more time that other PAC-12 schools.


OOC Schedules across the country:

Wisconsin - Utah State, FAU, BYU
Colorado - CSU, Texas State, Northern Colorado
Baylor - Duke, Liberty, Texas San Antonio
Penn St - Akron, Pitt, Georgia St
Oregon - Nebraska, SUU, Wyoming
Missouri - Missouri St, Purdue, Idaho

Baylor got left out of the playoff in 2014 precisely because of its weak non-con.

A lighter non-con? We played teams rated 36-127-131 in Sagarin and still faded in November. And we missed Stanford and Wazzu as well. Our SOS was 60th! Yet we still gagged in November. There's no valid argument that a lighter non-con would help.

[Scorcho]

Baylor got left out of the playoff in 2014 precisely because of its weak non-con.


2016 Washington Huskies non-conference schedule

Rutgers
Portland State
Idaho


2016 Alabama's non-conference schedule

USC
Western Kentucky
Kent State
Chattanooga


2016 Clemson

Auburn
South Carolina
Troy
South Carolina St


Ohio St
Bowling Green
Tulsa
Oklahoma

If you're in a P5, OOC doesn't seem to matter

[Utah]

Baylor got left out of the playoff in 2014 precisely because of its weak non-con.

A lighter non-con? We played teams rated 36-127-131 in Sagarin and still faded in November. And we missed Stanford and Wazzu as well. Our SOS was 60th! Yet we still gagged in November. There's no valid argument that a lighter non-con would help.

Baylor was left out because of no conference championship game, a shared title with another team and Ohio St beating the living snot out of someone.

Had Baylor and TCU played each other, the winner would have gotten in over Ohio State.

Baylor is not a good example.

Oh, and if I remember correctly, TCU's non-conference was garbage as well that year.

You never address this (because it doesn't fit your narrative) but what about Oklahoma and USC last year? Both scheduled up, both lost, and both were kept out of the playoffs because of it.

What happens is Oklahoma doesn't play Houston or Ohio State and goes undefeated? They are in.

What about USC? If they don't have that murder's row to start the season, play SJSU instead if Alabama, are they more rested and hold us off, and then you have two, one loss teams in the PAC-12 title game.

There is no argument for scheduling up.

What about Stanford a few years ago when they started the year vs Northwestern? If they beat up on Fresno St instead, they are in the playoffs.

I could go on and on.

[SoCalPat]

Baylor was left out because of no conference championship game, a shared title with another team and Ohio St beating the living snot out of someone.

Had Baylor and TCU played each other, the winner would have gotten in over Ohio State.

Baylor is not a good example.


http://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=400547868

[Utah]

http://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=400547868

Lol. Try again. When did they play in the conference title game?

Way to try to mislead though.

[SoCalPat]

Baylor was left out because of no conference championship game, a shared title with another team and Ohio St beating the living snot out of someone.

Had Baylor and TCU played each other, the winner would have gotten in over Ohio State.

Baylor is not a good example.

Oh, and if I remember correctly, TCU's non-conference was garbage as well that year.

You never address this (because it doesn't fit your narrative) but what about Oklahoma and USC last year? Both scheduled up, both lost, and both were kept out of the playoffs because of it.

What happens is Oklahoma doesn't play Houston or Ohio State and goes undefeated? They are in.

What about USC? If they don't have that murder's row to start the season, play SJSU instead if Alabama, are they more rested and hold us off, and then you have two, one loss teams in the PAC-12 title game.

There is no argument for scheduling up.

What about Stanford a few years ago when they started the year vs Northwestern? If they beat up on Fresno St instead, they are in the playoffs.

I could go on and on.

And Washington, with it's 58th SOS at 12-1, is out.

[SoCalPat]

Lol. Try again. When did they play in the conference title game?

Way to try to mislead though.

It's not my fault you don't clarify your points. The point is, Baylor did beat TCU. Having to beat them a second time doesn't apply, nor has that ever been a standard for getting into the playoff.

[NorthwestUteFan]

By the time Baylor rolls around Whittingham will most likely be retired. In the meantime our OOC is unbearable.

I wish the program would just buy out all of the FCS games (starting with 2018) and be done with those garbage games.

[Utah]

It's not my fault you don't clarify your points. The point is, Baylor did beat TCU. Having to beat them a second time doesn't apply, nor has that ever been a standard for getting into the playoff.

I didn't clarify my point? Lol. The whole two paragraphs were about conference championship games. You completely took my sentence out of context.

Even what you quoted shows that.

[Utah]

And Washington, with it's 58th SOS at 12-1, is out.

Probably. Good thing other teams were dumb enough to schedule up OOC, right? Lol.

[DrumNFeather]

I love how the schedule up drum beaters are the first to call for coaches heads when the wins aren't there.

You get USC, UCLA, Colorado, and the Arizonas every year. You also get one or more of Washington, Oregon and Stanford.

Now, on top of that, what's more important? Playing another P5 school or more likely Hood of more wins, higher ranking, higher recruiting, higher prestige, etc?

It's really a no brainer. For the level of program we are, scheduling up is just dumb.

There is nothing to be gained and everything to lose. It's on the same level of idea as playing BYU every year.

It makes no sense.

I meant to respond to this point and never did. You won't ever see me calling for the Coach Whit's head. Ever. He's teflon as far as I'm concerned.

My whole point with scheduling is that I don't think you have to travel that far towards a respectable non-league schedule by just making a few small adjustments that would also help in recruiting as well. For example, instead of scheduling a team like SUU or Weber, you could schedule G5 teams from Texas, which would put players in front of their families on the road at least once during their time at Utah...so a Rice, a UTEP, a SMU. Teams that are all 95% win probability, that also help you put your team in a critical recruiting footprint. I of course understand we're doing this currently with SJSU and SDSU on the schedule, but we will typically make 1-2 trips to CA in league play anyway.

Same thing with mid-low tier P5 schools. If you really truly consider BYU to be your "A" game most of the time (which is flawed thinking, IMO) then why not search for your "B" game among the power 5.

[Utah]

I agree about your G5 scheduling...but it will never happen with Whitt as coach. Ok, maybe it happens once but don't count on it.

He likes that tune up game too much.

The only way to change that would be the NCAA or PAC-12 to make that change and the PAC-12 would be dumb to do that.

The only problem with our schedule is BYU. That's it. Get them off and all complaints go away.

I'd do this:

FCS
G5

Then every 5 years, schedule BYU twice, H/H. that gives you 3 P5 games every 5 years. Maybe a H/H and a big time neutral game. Or, 3 H/H's every ten years with P5.

I'd also try to cut a deal with the Vegas Bowl that we play BYU once every 5 years in our bowl game, as long as we don't make the playoffs, Rose Bowl, Holiday or Alamo Bowl.

We'd play them 6/10 years, we fix our OOC problem, everyone wins.

Until they become a P5 team, we shouldn't play them every year.

[UtahsMrSports]

I meant to respond to this point and never did. You won't ever see me calling for the Coach Whit's head. Ever. He's teflon as far as I'm concerned.

My whole point with scheduling is that I don't think you have to travel that far towards a respectable non-league schedule by just making a few small adjustments that would also help in recruiting as well. For example, instead of scheduling a team like SUU or Weber, you could schedule G5 teams from Texas, which would put players in front of their families on the road at least once during their time at Utah...so a Rice, a UTEP, a SMU. Teams that are all 95% win probability, that also help you put your team in a critical recruiting footprint. I of course understand we're doing this currently with SJSU and SDSU on the schedule, but we will typically make 1-2 trips to CA in league play anyway.

Same thing with mid-low tier P5 schools. If you really truly consider BYU to be your "A" game most of the time (which is flawed thinking, IMO) then why not search for your "B" game among the power 5.

Agreed on all but UTEP. In El Paso, you are nearly as close (or further) to the recruiting hot beds of texas as you are to Denver. Sticking to the East and Central texas schools and I agree completely.

[DrumNFeather]

Agreed on all but UTEP. In El Paso, you are nearly as close (or further) to the recruiting hot beds of texas as you are to Denver. Sticking to the East and Central texas schools and I agree completely.

I was going with a Texas theme man...

[UtahsMrSports]

I was going with a Texas theme man...

I know. Ha! Growing up in East Texas and making the drive across the state every year to visit family in Utah drilled it into my head how ridiculously long it takes to drive across the state.

[SoCalPat]

I agree about your G5 scheduling...but it will never happen with Whitt as coach. Ok, maybe it happens once but don't count on it.

He likes that tune up game too much.

The only way to change that would be the NCAA or PAC-12 to make that change and the PAC-12 would be dumb to do that.

The only problem with our schedule is BYU. That's it. Get them off and all complaints go away.

I'd do this:

FCS
G5

Then every 5 years, schedule BYU twice, H/H. that gives you 3 P5 games every 5 years. Maybe a H/H and a big time neutral game. Or, 3 H/H's every ten years with P5.

I'd also try to cut a deal with the Vegas Bowl that we play BYU once every 5 years in our bowl game, as long as we don't make the playoffs, Rose Bowl, Holiday or Alamo Bowl.

We'd play them 6/10 years, we fix our OOC problem, everyone wins.

Until they become a P5 team, we shouldn't play them every year.

The problem with this, as it pertains to the powers that make up the schedule, is that BYU is viewed as an 'A' game, which also means it's viewed the same as just about every P5 team out there. I'm also guessing playing BYU H-H is far more profitable than playing virtually any other P5.

I am perfectly OK with playing BYU 6/10 years. I'm not sure there are many P5s willing to fill the void in 4/10 years. So BYU stays on the schedule until something changes that simply hasn't shown itself since we got into the Pac-12.

[Utah]

The problem with this, as it pertains to the powers that make up the schedule, is that BYU is viewed as an 'A' game, which also means it's viewed the same as just about every P5 team out there. I'm also guessing playing BYU H-H is far more profitable than playing virtually any other P5.

I am perfectly OK with playing BYU 6/10 years. I'm not sure there are many P5s willing to fill the void in 4/10 years. So BYU stays on the schedule until something changes that simply hasn't shown itself since we got into the Pac-12.

Your first paragraph is why all this talk is just passing the dog days of summer.

As long as Whitt views BYU as an "A" game, we will schedule like this.

As long as this state blindly votes LDS-R, we will play BYU.

I disagree with your last paragraph. You contradict yourself. You say we should schedule up, then you say no one is willing to play us.

I don't think Utah has tried very hard to find another P5 school to play. I think the fans' reaction to the 5-7 seasons has pissed everyone off and they will make sure Utah doesn't miss another bowl game.

In a lot of ways, this is our mess and it's very ironic to sit and listen to all the complaints about scheduling, just a few years off fans wanting to run Whitt out of town.

Whitt is one of the smartest people out there and was doing all the analytics when most NBA GM's were in diapers.

He knows what market he is in and how ridiculous the fans are here. He won't put himself in the same position he was in after his 5-7 seasons again. Especially not with his new contract. He will be here for life and he will make sure he never misses a bowl again.

OOC is key to all of that. Entering the season halfway to a bowl game is the key to longevity. Just ask the SEC.

[noneyadb]

As long as the Pac12 schedule consists of 9 games scheduling to add more p5 teams is not in Utah's best interest. I like Utah playing Weber and SUU as the money stays instate and helps those schools. The other two games need to be vs G5 schools with a P5 every other year until Utah can become a playoff contender.

As far as BYU, I would rather they left the game to chance, and only played at the Vegas bowl. With the new stadium, and added appeal of a bowl game, I think that would refuel a dying rivalry.

[UTEopia]

I agree that unless the NCAA/PAC 12 prohibits games against FCS schools, those games will continue.

I would prefer playing SMU, Rice, FAU, UCF as opposed to SJSU, No. Ill or Wyoming. There is no reason to play No. Ill or Wyo and if we are going to play someone of that caliber, I would rather play USU.

Are people really interested in watching games against Texas Tech, Kansas, Indiana, Kentucky and would such games really help significantly more than BYU. I am all for playing teams like Michigan, Ohio State, Texas etc., but adding just any P5 isn't that interesting to me.

[Utah]

I'd rather beat BYU than some bottom tier P5 school.

I'd rather drop BYU for a top tier P5 school.

[LuckyUte]

I'd rather beat BYU than some bottom tier P5 school...

Wait, isn't BYU essentially a bottom tier P5?

[Utah]

Wait, isn't BYU essentially a bottom tier P5?

Sure. Beating BYU is more fun than beating Indiana or Northwestern or Vanderbilt or Kansas or Purdue or Texas Tech or Kentucky, etc.

[UTEopia]

Sure. Beating BYU is more fun than beating Indiana or Northwestern or Vanderbilt or Kansas or Purdue or Texas Tech or Kentucky, etc.

Yes, but is losing to them less painful? We will once again lose to them. Maybe not this year, but it could be this year.

[Utah]

Good point. I've gotten too confident. I don't see us losing to them. It will be crushing when it does happen.

[LA Ute]

Yes, but is losing to them less painful? We will once again lose to them. Maybe not this year, but it could be this year.

UCLA beats USC now and then. It's just a matter of odds.

What will be amusing to watch is how the next BYU win over Utah will be evidence of the restoration of Things the Way They Have Always Been, Really Are, and Should Be; the dawn of a new era, the end of Utah's undeserved dominance, etc.

[Scratch]

UCLA beats USC now and then. It's just a matter of odds.

What will be amusing to watch is how the next BYU win over Utah will be evidence of the restoration of Things the Way They Have Always Been, Really Are, and Should Be; the dawn of a new era, the end of Utah's undeserved dominance, etc.

Yes and no. If it happens this year, that will certainly be the narrative because of the new coaching staff down there and their perceived (if largely imaginary) momentum. If Utah wins the next 3 against Kalani and keeps putting a good product on the field, and then Kalani wins in 2020, it will be a lot harder to make that narrative stick (although some will certainly try).

[LA Ute]

You should know better. That narrative ain't going away until the 60+ year old guys in my high priests group have moved on to that great rivalry game in the sky.

One must be at least 40 years old to have any memory of BYU's 1984 MNC. Anyone under age 28 will not remember the last time BYU had a really good, nationally competitive team (1996). Kind of interesting when you consider the impact on recruiting, fan support, and so forth.

[DrumNFeather]

Updated with new series against Houston in 2026-27...of course, we're going on the road first.

[Scorcho]

Updated with new series against Houston in 2026-27...of course, we're going on the road first.

there's a possibility that Houston could be a P5 program by then

[Sullyute]

Updated with new series against Houston in 2026-27...of course, we're going on the road first.

I assume we have BYU at home that year.

Edit: I just checked, it is not scheduled, but the BYU game would be in SLC that year.

[SoCalPat]

Updated with new series against Houston in 2026-27...of course, we're going on the road first.

I like this addition.

I suspect that the playoff has forced us to up our scheduling game a tad. We're seeking out competitive G5s, which in most years, would be better than scheduling P5 dreck.

Also, I've bitched plenty about this year's non-con, but with no Cal or Oregon State on the schedule (the only team in the South to miss both -- USC, Colorado and Arizona get to play both), I have almost no problem with this year's non-con (save for scheduling a game in DeKalb, Ill.).

[mUUser]

Ugh. I hate when they schedule over High School Football.

http://utahutes.com/news/2018/5/31/five-utah-football-game-times-tv-announced.aspx

[DrumNFeather]

Mark Harlan was stuck on the runway yesterday while techs worked on the plane he was on, so he took a few twitter questions. Chief among them were questions about OOC scheduling. In addition the Tulane AD flat out asked for a series in 28-29, and I believe it was the North Texas AD that did the same, but didn't put any dates on it. In response to the Tulane AD's request, Harlan said: "The last time this team went to New Orleans, it worked out pretty well." Anyway, thought that was interesting. He seems like he is going to be far more accessible to the fans than Chris Hill was, and he certainly seems willing to listen, which is also cool. Right now it is all lip service, but still, it's nice to see him out there interacting with fans and not just high level donors...ahem.

[SoCalPat]

This guy is living the AD dream. Instead of inheriting a mess like most new AD's, he has inherited stability and success. He has one of the 5 top-tier football coaches in the conference, and the basketball team just pulled off its best recruiting class in ages. Harlan could go 5+ years without needing to do anything hard.

'28-29? Football scheduling is completely broken.

He'll have stadium expansion to focus on, and that ain't gonna be a walk in the park. Then again, your AD Dream narrative has even more legs if we go out and do something super silly -- like beat the stuffings out of Ohio State in the Rose Bowl. You don't even need to solicit donations at that point.

[Solon]

He'll have stadium expansion to focus on, and that ain't gonna be a walk in the park. Then again, your AD Dream narrative has even more legs if we go out and do something super silly -- like beat the stuffings out of Ohio State in the Rose Bowl. You don't even need to solicit donations at that point.

I think college football in general is going to have to deal with concussions / CTE and the work/pay/play issue in the not-so-distant future.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Harlan could go 5+ years without needing to do anything hard.


Until you have to bury one of your murdered student athletes.


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[UTEopia]

I guess the USU AD said that USU would not do a 2 for 1 with Utah. I understand his position and it is hard to argue differently when the Utes have 1 for 1 with Wyoming (IMO stupid), SDSU (IMO good) and Houston (IMO good). Since joining the PAC 12 I have consistently been in favor of playing USU and BYU on a rotating 1 for 1 basis. I used to love going to Logan for games and never enjoyed going to Provo for games. Money is not an issue because they keep the gate when we play at USU and we keep the gate when we play at SLC - probably the same deal we are doing with NIU and the schools mentioned above.

[concerned]

I have no problem with doing a home/away with USU. I do have a problem with the USU AD feeling entitled to said home/away. We don't owe him anything. Playing USU is certainly not a plus for us in terms of rankings, recruiting, or perception.

Are Kyle and Gary friends? I wouldn't want to play against a friend if I could avoid it.

somebody tweeted that if USU is big enough for a home and home, they should not be getting appropriations from the legislature for recruiting

[DrumNFeather]

So, Mark Harlan just tweeted something interesting...

1082513572016443393

For those on a mobile device: "Congrats @ClemsonFB, see you soon."

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

So, Mark Harlan just tweeted something interesting...

1082513572016443393

For those on a mobile device: "Congrats @ClemsonFB, see you soon."

It gets better. Or at least, foggier.

1082533843347767296


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[LA Ute]

He means in next season's playoffs?

That’s how I read it — as cheerleading..

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

The rivalry game has officially been extended two more years through 2024. This overlaps the Baylor series and Hereford the first departure from Chris Hill’s scheduling strategy.

https://utahutes.com/news/2019/1/14/utah-and-byu-extend-football-series.aspx


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[Scorcho]

The rivalry game has officially been extended two more years through 2024. This overlaps the Baylor series and Hereford the first departure from Chris Hill’s scheduling strategy.

https://utahutes.com/news/2019/1/14/utah-and-byu-extend-football-series.aspx


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this was the perfect time to take a two year break and play Utah State home and away

[Scorcho]

If we're gonna take a break from the BYU series, I would hope it could be for something better than a USU home and away. Why would USU move the needle at all? I guess it gives our fans an easy road trip. Other than that, I'm not sure why we would want to bother.

using the Dr. Hill/Whittingham graded scale of college football, Utah has Baylor on the schedule in 2023 and 2024 (also Weber and SUU), don't need an 'A' or 'C' type opponent, need a 'B'

[UTEopia]

If we're gonna take a break from the BYU series, I would hope it could be for something better than a USU home and away. Why would USU move the needle at all? I guess it gives our fans an easy road trip. Other than that, I'm not sure why we would want to bother.


I like playing USU. It is a fun atmosphere and doesn't bring all the shit that BYU brings out in them and in us. I love to go to Logan and never go to Provo.

[UTEopia]

Like I said, it gives our fans an easy road trip. I think that's the only item on the pro list.

What is on the pro list for playing BYU?

[NorthwestUteFan]

What is on the pro list for playing BYU?The legislature keeps funding scientific research if we keep playing byu.

[Diehard Ute]

The legislature keeps funding scientific research if we keep playing byu.

Don’t fool yourself. They don’t fund research. Nor do they find the hospital. They don’t fund much. But they do authorize things like the board of regents and board of trustees and that’s the issue.

One of the biggest jokes in Utah is the state funds the U.


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[Applejack]

What is on the pro list for playing BYU?

Uhhhh....it's a great game that we always win!

[UTEopia]

Not killing a 100 year rivalry. Tradition. Satisfaction when we win. Gut wrenching pain when we lose. Not looking like we're afraid. Finishing what we started. Revenge. Drama. Intensity. Glory.

But I agree, Logan is a way better road trip than Provo.

I just don't feel those things anymore. I am happy the game is at the first of the year so we don't have to hear about it for awhile although the next time we lose I anticipate that is all we will hear until the following year.

[Scorcho]

The legislature keeps funding scientific research if we keep playing byu.

The U's research dollars hit over $500 million for the first time in 2018, nearly a $200 million dollar increase from FY-2011

https://healthcare.utah.edu/publicaffairs/news/2018/09/research-news.php

[Applejack]

I just don't feel those things anymore. I am happy the game is at the first of the year so we don't have to hear about it for awhile although the next time we lose I anticipate that is all we will hear until the following year.

I agree with the game being scheduled early in the year (although, think of all the injuries we had and how that would have affected us if we'd had played Oregon or Arizona in the last game). but how can you say you don't enjoy the game? I don't follow BYU as closely as I used to (praise be!), but I really, REALLY didn't want to lose that game. And that was different than other non-conference games; against Northern Illinois we looked like trash, but late in the game I was resigned to being bad last year, whereas with BYU every tackle, every hit, every touchdown pass had elements of elation, hatred, childhood memories, and WECAN'TLOSETHISGAME feelings. Basically, the way a rivalry should be.

[UTEopia]

I agree with the game being scheduled early in the year (although, think of all the injuries we had and how that would have affected us if we'd had played Oregon or Arizona in the last game). but how can you say you don't enjoy the game? I don't follow BYU as closely as I used to (praise be!), but I really, REALLY didn't want to lose that game. And that was different than other non-conference games; against Northern Illinois we looked like trash, but late in the game I was resigned to being bad last year, whereas with BYU every tackle, every hit, every touchdown pass had elements of elation, hatred, childhood memories, and WECAN'TLOSETHISGAME feelings. Basically, the way a rivalry should be.

The exciting games for me are the conference games. Our goals every year should be win the PAC 12 South, Win the PAC Championship and get to a New Year's 6 game. BYU does not figure into any of those for the team or for me.

Before the BYU game was played I had moved onto the Championship game. It was exciting because of the way it was won. Was it more exciting or satisfying than when we beat Oregon St. or TCU in the last seconds back in 2008 or USC a couple of times, not for me. I believe if we played USU and beat them in the same fashion, I would enjoy it just the same.

I am not opposed to playing BYU. I just don't have the desire to play them every year and if we are required to play an in-state team each year, I would like to see a rotation with BYU and USU.

[Scorcho]

Interesting poll results about interest from both fan-bases about the game, clearly not a scientific poll but.

It's also curious how the state legislature was up in arms about the game be played between a state university and a private school, but has zero interests in a scheduling mandate for the other state school (Utah State) that they have a fiscal responsibility to.

https://twitter.com/AFronceRivals/status/1085028691942363136?s=19

[LA Ute]

Don’t fool yourself. They don’t fund research. Nor do they find the hospital. They don’t fund much. But they do authorize things like the board of regents and board of trustees and that’s the issue.

One of the biggest jokes in Utah is the state funds the U.

Bingo. All they really have that matters in this discussion is the power to hassle the AD and the President. Which they do, as the $80K incident and subsequent audit prove. There have been other acts of intimidation that are not public.

[Utebiquitous]

I love the idea of playing BYU or USU every year. A rotation would be terrific especially with USU's rise. Hopefully they sustain it.

[NorthwestUteFan]

We have thrown away a 126-year rivalry with USU (112 games played). Spacing out the byu-P games shouldn't be a big deal. The game vs byu is never going away. Keep them on the schedule, but occasionally mix in the Aggies.

But we absolutely need to beef up our OOC schedule. We have by far and away the weakest OOC schedule in the PAC-12. We have 2 (!) games vs P5 teams on our OOC schedule over the next decade, Baylor in '23 and '24. And that may as well be all the P5 OOC games we play this century, because we sure don't seem to be able to schedule any others. Especially if (when) byu continues it's downward trend we need to consider them a B game and get something interesting on the schedule.

[NorthwestUteFan]

While I would like to rotate out byu I also like to buy out the fcs games and replace them with P5 teams.

[UTEopia]

While I would like to rotate out byu I also like to buy out the fcs games and replace them with P5 teams.

I would too. My guess is that decision is totally financial. If you can pay an FCS $500k but you have to pay FBS $1.2mil for a one off game, that is probably more money than the U is willing to give away.

[SoCalPat]

I'm fine with rotating BYU out, but if it's just for USU? Why bother? We rotated them out for Michigan. Now that made sense.

The 112 games vs USU is a good example of how a rivalry requires more than just volume.

I'd be happy to see some more P5s on future schedules. I'm not too upset, though. Even without P5 OOC games, we've regularly finished with a very high SOS overall. We play a lot of tough games. I can understand wanting to water the schedule down a bit.

The biggest scheduling issue is out of our hands. We need all conferences at 8 or 9 games (9 would be better),

By rotating USU in for BYU, we've delegated BYU as 'B' game status. That would correct elevating BYU to 'A' game status, which we did when we played Michigan instead.

Regarding the point in bold, this is not a true statement. It's not even up for debate. Per Sagarin, Utah's rank in the Pac-12 in SOS (national in parenthesis)

2018: 3rd (26 -- don't forget, we got a 2nd game against UW when nobody else in the league did)
2017: 9th (56)
2016: 12th (60)
2015: 7th (28)
2014: 8th (36)
2013: 3rd (3 -- yes, the Pac-12 was a bitch this year with the top 7 SOSes, 9 in the top 20 and no team worse than 31st)
2012: 11th (41)
2011: 12th (49)

One top-10 SOS, two conference finishes in the top half of the league and three conference SOS finishes of 11th or worse. Watering down the schedule a bit? We're drowning it.

[SoCalPat]

We have thrown away a 126-year rivalry with USU (112 games played). Spacing out the byu-P games shouldn't be a big deal. The game vs byu is never going away. Keep them on the schedule, but occasionally mix in the Aggies.

But we absolutely need to beef up our OOC schedule. We have by far and away the weakest OOC schedule in the PAC-12. We have 2 (!) games vs P5 teams on our OOC schedule over the next decade, Baylor in '23 and '24. And that may as well be all the P5 OOC games we play this century, because we sure don't seem to be able to schedule any others. Especially if (when) byu continues it's downward trend we need to consider them a B game and get something interesting on the schedule.

I'm officially referring to BYU as a 'B' game. I'm not one of those types who believe we should never play them again, but I'll also marginalize them to underscore how ridiculously soft our non-con is. Colorado has 7 H-H deals with P5s in the same timeframe in which we have 1. That's just unacceptable, and we deserve straight answers on why we're racing to the bottom with regard to scheduling.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I'm officially referring to BYU as a 'B' game. I'm not one of those types who believe we should never play them again, but I'll also marginalize them to underscore how ridiculously soft our non-con is. Colorado has 7 H-H deals with P5s in the same timeframe in which we have 1. That's just unacceptable, and we deserve straight answers on why we're racing to the bottom with regard to scheduling.I agree with this. And I am bored to tears by our OOC schedule, not to mention embarrassed.
I am very selfish as a fan. I want to see splashy OOC games. I have to travel to go to games anyway, and travelling to watch them play SUU, Weber, or NIU just doesn't move the needle. But give me a trip to Iowa, and I will bring my whole family.

[SoCalPat]

There are two possibilities:

1) We are unable to schedule other P5s for some reason. Possible, but unlikely. We definitely have a reputation of being a tough team that will leave you battered. There is a lot of respect amongst coaches for Whittingham coached teams. We are at elevation in the west, so we aren't an ideal home/away for most P5s.

2) The more likely explanation is that it is strategic. There are two ways for us to get to the playoff: (1) go undefeated 13-0, (2) go 12-1 with a tough enough schedule to be picked above other 12-1 teams. I guess the U is liking their chances of 13-0 with a weak OOC schedule more than their chances of being 12-1 with a tough enough OOC schedule. This might not be dumb. I doubt the committee would pick Utah over bigger brand 12-1 teams, regardless of schedule. Also, strategy runs beyond playoff/NY6 scenarios. We are program building. Finishing in the top 25 matters to us. It matters for perception, which matters for recruiting. If we think we are still 5-10 years away from being a real, regular NY6 contender (and the recruiting rankings would suggest we are further than that), then playing for wins is not a bad idea. If we think we are less deep than other contenders, playing a weaker OOC makes sense.

So, I think it's strategic. Maybe we don't like or agree with the strategy, but it's not an unreasonable explanation, is it?

A 12-1 P5 champ has never been excluded from the playoff, and of course, neither has a 13-0 P5 champ. It's pointless to discuss the merits of both as it pertains to SOS and getting into the playoff.

[SoCalPat]

Shift the argument down to 11-2 then. The point is that there could be strategic reasons for our OOC schedules.

I agree. There are strategic reasons. But any reason that has an end result of us floating at the bottom of the league isn't a good one.

I don't think the CFP committee takes "brand awareness" into account when picking the Top 4, and the NY6 teams pretty much fill themselves out from there. But Wazzu's weak non-con was certainly a factor in missing out on a NY6 game this year. In Sagarin, they were 7th in the Pac-12, 53rd nationally. IOW, a finish very similar to what we see from Utah on an annual basis. LSU, a 3-loss team that was the team that knocked Wazzu out of a NY6 game, was 2nd in the SEC and 5th overall.

With regard to the playoff and NY6, any strategy for dumbing down the non-con and getting good results out of the deal is speculative. But there's tons of evidence that having a tougher SOS does help. We don't have to have the toughest at Utah, but we're not in a position where we can afford to have the easiest. In the Pac-12 era, it's been much closer to the latter than it has been the former.

[UTEopia]

As far as scheduling goes, I agree with SoCal's opinion that dumbing down the schedule is not a good idea. The only way we make the Championship game with the shit OOC we have next year is if we go undefeated or with 1 loss depending on how many losses the other schools have. I don't have a problem with the A, B, C method. However, the definitions need to change. The "A" game can only against another P5 or a good G5 school in a recruiting area like Texas or Florida. If the only games we can get are with the bottom of the barrel, so be it. It seems to be required that we play BYU, so this is the "B" game, though as previously stated I would like to see a rotation with USU. I would prefer the C game be a one-off against a G5 school, but it seems that is not currently available.

[DrumNFeather]

As far as scheduling goes, I agree with SoCal's opinion that dumbing down the schedule is not a good idea. The only way we make the Championship game with the shit OOC we have next year is if we go undefeated or with 1 loss depending on how many losses the other schools have. I don't have a problem with the A, B, C method. However, the definitions need to change. The "A" game can only against another P5 or a good G5 school in a recruiting area like Texas or Florida. If the only games we can get are with the bottom of the barrel, so be it. It seems to be required that we play BYU, so this is the "B" game, though as previously stated I would like to see a rotation with USU. I would prefer the C game be a one-off against a G5 school, but it seems that is not currently available.

Even if you just tried to get H/H games with G5's in your recruiting footprint, I think that would be fine. Off the top of my head:

SJSU
SDSU
Fresno St.
Rice
North Texas
SMU

Houston, on the schedule in a few years, is probably a B or A game on the road
TCU would certainly qualify there.

Shoot, if you're going to continue to recruit in Florida, add one of those schools to the schedule.

[SoCalPat]

Tell me where you think the following schools fit in our A-B-C scheduling philosophy ... No agenda, no trap answers. Copy/paste/edit your answers in a separate post.

Wake Forest
Boise State
Minnesota
UCF
Liberty
Appalachian State
Duke
Kansas
Memphis
Virginia Tech

[chrisrenrut]

Tell me where you think the following schools fit in our A-B-C scheduling philosophy ... No agenda, no trap answers. Copy/paste/edit your answers in a separate post.

Wake Forest
Boise State
Minnesota
UCF
Liberty
Appalachian State
Duke
Kansas
Memphis
Virginia Tech

Wake Forest- A
Boise State- B
Minnesota- A
UCF-A
Liberty- C
Appalachian State- C
Duke- A
Kansas- A
Memphis- B
Virginia Tech- A

[Scorcho]

I'm officially referring to BYU as a 'B' game. I'm not one of those types who believe we should never play them again, but I'll also marginalize them to underscore how ridiculously soft our non-con is. Colorado has 7 H-H deals with P5s in the same timeframe in which we have 1. That's just unacceptable, and we deserve straight answers on why we're racing to the bottom with regard to scheduling.

Colorado just agreed to another H-H with Missouri for 2025 and 2030. I think Colorado has a distinct advantage in scheduling these types of games, because well .... the Buffs suck, and they've sucked for a long, long time. They've also kicked off their main rival from their schedule (CSU) for the foreseeable future so they have a little extra wiggle room. I can see why schools are lining up to play CU, but shy away from Utah (especially considering Utah's record OOC).

[Sullyute]

Wake Forest - A
Boise State - A*
Minnesota - A*
UCF - A*
Liberty - C
Appalachian State - B
Duke - A
Kansas - A
Memphis - B
Virginia Tech - A*

I put a star next to the games I have any interest in or I think are in our recruiting area.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Harlan’s gets his first significant football scheduling win with a home and home with Arkansas.

http://utahutes.com/news/2019/7/31/utah-and-arkansas-announce-future-football-series-for-2026-and-28.aspx


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[hostile]

Harlan’s gets his first significant football scheduling win with a home and home with Arkansas.

http://utahutes.com/news/2019/7/31/utah-and-arkansas-announce-future-football-series-for-2026-and-28.aspx


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A quick review of Arkansas’ schedule the last 10 years shows them traveling west of Texas once, losing to Colorado St.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

1176201521710686209

[Scratch]

1176201521710686209

Our schedules are already full those years (BYU, SUU, SDSU in 2022 and Weber, @Baylor, and @BYU in 2023). Rumors circulating that we'll drop BYU those 2 years, but I haven't seen anything official.

[Scratch]

247 is reporting that the BYU games have been cancelled but tacked back on to the end of the contract, and that Utah helped BYU to find 2 games to replace the Holy War those 2 years.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

247 is reporting that the BYU games have been cancelled but tacked back on to the end of the contract, and that Utah helped BYU to find 2 games to replace the Holy War those 2 years.


Can I ask what this means?

[Diehard Ute]

Can I ask what this means?

They extended the contract to play BYU by 2 years basically


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[Scratch]

They extended the contract to play BYU by 2 years basically


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Right. I believe the contract currently runs through 2024, so this would mean they are extending it through 2026.

[LA Ute]

So I guess by this maneuver we’re going to avoid another legislative audit?

[LA Ute]

Tom Holmoe is making nice, so no legislative audit, I guess.

Utes will defer two football games vs. BYU to play Florida in 2022 and 2023

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2019/09/23/utes-drop-two-football/

[Brian]

247 is reporting that the BYU games have been cancelled but tacked back on to the end of the contract, and that Utah helped BYU to find 2 games to replace the Holy War potential wins in those 2 years.

Fixed it for you.

[mUUser]

https://www.deseret.com/2020/2/17/21141121/utah-football-utah-utes-lsu-football-lsu-tigers-announce-home-and-home-football-series


Home and home with LSU, right about when I'll have 8 or 9 grandchildren. Currently I have none.

Will come on the heels of HH with Arkansas. As my kids might say, "my, that escalated quickly."

[sancho]

https://www.deseret.com/2020/2/17/21141121/utah-football-utah-utes-lsu-football-lsu-tigers-announce-home-and-home-football-series


Home and home with LSU, right about when I'll have 8 or 9 grandchildren. Currently I have none.

Will come on the heels of HH with Arkansas. As my kids might say, "my, that escalated quickly."


I've been to one game in Baton Rouge. It's a great game day experience. I might have to go...if college football is still around in the 30's.

[SoCalPat]

You don't need to go back but a year in this thread to find us lamenting the sorry state of Utah non-conference scheduling.

Since then, we've landed H-H with three SEC schools -- Florida, LSU and Arkansas.

We've got three solid G5 H-H series with Houston, San Diego State and Wyoming. Plus a H-H with Baylor starting in 2023. Some of those were signed under Hill, but the real sizzle in our non-conference scheduling is 100 percent attributable to Mark Harlan and his staff. Just a real bang up job of delivering for the fans, many of whom weren't buying what some scheduling apologists were saying about Utah's scheduling approach.

[SoCalPat]

Harlan also clearly doesn't subscribe to the A-B-C line of thinking in football scheduling.

2020: B-B-C (BYU, Wyoming, Montana State)
2021: B-B-C (BYU, San Diego State, Weber State)
2022: A-B-C (Florida, San Diego State, Southern Utah)
2023: A-A-C (Florida, Baylor, Weber State)
2024: A-B-C (Baylor, BYU, SUU)
2025: B-B-open date (BYU, Wyoming)
2026: A-B-B (Arkansas, Houston, BYU -- unless something happens in Pac-12 scheduling, this will be our first year without a FCS opponent since we joined the league)
2027: B-B-open date (BYU, Houston)
2028: A-B-open date (Arkansas, BYU)
2029-30: no games scheduled
2031-32: A (LSU)

I don't know what to make of 2025-27. Today, I'd predict that those slots go to FCS schools. But Harlan has committed himself in 2026 to not play an FCS team. I could totally see letting the 2023 season play out with two A games in the non-con, and if we can handle that, using the open 2025 date to play a marquee A game in Vegas. Those are all one-off games, scheduled much later in the game than most H-H series.

Harlan was hamstrung by the agreements he inherited, so the next two years are still Sucksville as far as the non-con is concerned. But his mark on scheduling is clear from 2022 and beyond. He'll have an expanded stadium to fill, and the status quo for our first decade in the Pac-12 simply was not going to cut it.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I still would love to see Iowa on the schedule. Maybe those 2025/2027 dates would work.

[DrumNFeather]

I still would love to see Iowa on the schedule. Maybe those 2025/2027 dates would work.

Per FBS schedules, Iowa does have an opening in 2025 (they don't show beyond that for them). In 2025, they are @Iowa St. and host N. Illinois. We are @BYU and host Wyoming. I suspect they'd want the home game first, which would work for us because we only have 4 league road games that year. In 2027, we host Houston and play at BYU, so again, it would probably work for us.

Regardless, I'd love to see a Big Ten school on the horizon in the schedule.

Other Big Ten teams with those years available: Northwestern, Wisconsin, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Ohio St. (play Texas and Washington in Columbus in 2025), Penn St., Rutgers.

[DrumNFeather]

Home games with Dixie St. added in 2028 and 2030. :rockon:

[sancho]

1255165800442474496

[DrumNFeather]

1255165800442474496

According to Scotty G on 1280, Utah was offered this deal and turned it down.

[Nice Marmot]

According to Scotty G on 1280, Utah was offered this deal and turned it down.

I'm fine playing USU as long as byu is dropped that year. Playing both USU and byu in the same year does nothing for the Utes.

[Applejack]

I'm fine playing USU as long as byu is dropped that year. Playing both USU and byu in the same year does nothing for the Utes.

Yeah. We're not even playing northern Illinois!!!!!

[sancho]

1259957238040387591

This would be great. Maybe the pandemic can help us change how we do all the idiotic things we do in college football.