FBI and DOJ Announce Corruption Charges in College Basketball

[DrumNFeather]

Per the twitter, Assistants at Arizona and USC are among those that have been named in an FBI investigation and are being brought up on corruption charges. More to follow, I'm sure.

Apparently the Money was funneled through Adidas.

From what I can see, the schools named so far are:

Arizona
USC
OK. State
Auburn

[UtahsMrSports]

Per the twitter, Assistants at Arizona and USC are among those that have been named in an FBI investigation and are being brought up on corruption charges. More to follow, I'm sure.

Apparently the Money was funneled through Adidas.

From what I can see, the schools named so far are:

Arizona
USC
OK. State
Auburn

Great start! Now lets see them bring eradicate the corruption in AAU!

[DrumNFeather]

Here's a link to the ESPN article on this: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20824193/ncaa-basketball-coaches-10-charged-fraud-corruption

[DrumNFeather]

2265

[Rocker Ute]

Shoe has dropped on this one (pun intended)... certainly more to follow. I can't remember who, but it seemed like there was somebody here suggesting we should 'play the game' referring to bribing players to remain competitive. I'm glad (or hope) we don't.

[concerned]

cant wait to hear what these guys say when they flip. Brian Bowman was allegedly paid $100,000 to commit to Louisville. Odds that Akot or Markennen will be named?


Doesnt Pintino's explanation of the Bowen commitment reek of guilty knowledge:

"We got lucky on this one," Pitino said at the time. "I had an AAU director call me and say, 'Would you be interested in a basketball player?' I said ... 'Yeah, I'd be really interested.' But [Bowen and his people] had to come in unofficially, pay for their hotels, pay for their meals. So we spent zero dollars recruiting a five-star athlete who I loved when I saw him play. In my 40-some-odd years of coaching, this is the luckiest I've been."

[DrumNFeather]

The cover up is always worse than the crime. I'm interested to see where the fingers get pointed, and which heads roll. Lots of body part analogies here...

[LA Ute]

All I know is what my partners who are former prosecutors tell me: The feds don't arrest someone, especially in high-profile cases, until they have a very solid case. Just sayin'. Often they arrest lower-level people and work on them to flip against the higher-ups, as concerned notes.

:snack:

[sancho]

All I know is what my partners who are former prosecutors tell me: The feds don't arrest someone, especially in high-profile cases, until they have a very solid case. Just sayin'. Often they arrest lower-level people and work on them to flip against the higher-ups, as concerned notes.


In that case, I feel both hopeful and nervous. It would be great for Utah basketball if a few rival programs could suffer from this. But who knows if a finger ends up pointing at us?

[sancho]

912718734589964288

[justaute]

I love college sports, but I want a bunch of schools get the death penalty and the entire collegiate landscape, especially the money-sports, to just blow up. I couldn't care less which school(s). That said, I highly doubt that will happen, but am hopeful the federal indictment has much more teeth.

[Scorcho]

:Ashamed: two PAC 12 schools

I wonder if investigators took a look at Utah's past rosters:

Kim Tillie

Stephen Weigh

Kareem Storey

Renan Lenz


chuckled and said, "nope looks like you guys are clean"

[SoCalPat]

Shoe has dropped on this one (pun intended)... certainly more to follow. I can't remember who, but it seemed like there was somebody here suggesting we should 'play the game' referring to bribing players to remain competitive. I'm glad (or hope) we don't.

I was one of those guys. But with the FBI involved, I'm walking it all back.

The NCAA enforcement team is a joke. Those involved are gonna know what a real investigation looks like.

[SoCalPat]

I love college sports, but I want a bunch of schools get the death penalty and the entire collegiate landscape, especially the money-sports, to just blow up. I couldn't care less which school(s). That said, I highly doubt that will happen, but am hopeful the federal indictment has much more teeth.

At the top of the list: Louisville.

[justaute]

That wouldn't bother me at all, especially it also has a POS coaching football.


At the top of the list: Louisville.

[sancho]

At the top of the list: Louisville.

Forde agrees with you:

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-needs-give-louisville-basketball-death-sentence-bombshell-allegations-prove-correct-181930063.html


Every basketball program in America is running scared right now, because this is how business gets done. A lot of people knew it, but nobody was able to lay it out with proof like the feds did on Tuesday. It’s a dirty sport, and today we know how dirty.

[LA Ute]

From the SL Trib two years ago:

Utah basketball: Larry Krystkowiak sounds off on recruiting, cheating and more



"Did you know," Larry Krystkowiak asked in his Montana drawl, leaning over his lectern, "that there's a lot of cheating in college basketball?"

His earnest delivery prompted some chuckles among the audience of roughly 40 people. But Utah's men's basketball coach wasn't going to leave it hanging without telling a story. He asked two compliance officials if he could venture on.

The tale: He was once recruiting a top-level player, and the player (or his representatives) called Krystkowiak in the middle of the night. They told Krystkowiak the recruit's transcript would cost the Utes $50,000, and "it'll probably cost you $50,000 more to sign him...."

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=2957921&itype=CMSID

[Scorcho]

https://twitter.com/bigdirrty77/status/912717458250911745

not sure Sean Miller survives this


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/761940624064942083/MxWcDY9O_bigger.jpgJosh Garrett‏ @bigdirrty77 (https://twitter.com/bigdirrty77)Follow

More




Replying to @Wildcat_Country (https://twitter.com/Wildcat_Country)
Seems like Miami and Arizona were involved in a bidding war. Zona is University 4

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKqfr5VV4AEm2eD.jpg




9:36 AM - 26 Sep 2017

[UtahsMrSports]

This is simply new and uncharted territory. I dont see how any head coach who has an assistant under investigation or charged survives. I think it only gets crazier from here.

[Solon]

This is simply new and uncharted territory. I dont see how any head coach who has an assistant under investigation or charged survives. I think it only gets crazier from here.

So, attorneys and other smart guys, please educate me.
What, exactly, would these (alleged) crimes look like? I understand that it is a violation of NCAA rules to pay a player, etc., but that's not a crime (is it?).
Rather, from the espn article, I am inclined to think that the crime lies in something like extortion/bribery/racketeering/conspiracy/influence-peddling.

Obviously, extortion is illegal, but it is unclear to me at what point the others become bona fide crimes.

So, help a guy out. Please.

[Utah]

Shoe has dropped on this one (pun intended)... certainly more to follow. I can't remember who, but it seemed like there was somebody here suggesting we should 'play the game' referring to bribing players to remain competitive. I'm glad (or hope) we don't.

I said that if Larry wants to be paid like a top 15 coach, he needs to recruit better and unfortunately we were losing kids left and right because we didn't recruit dirty.

I said it would be tough for Larry to keep his job at his salary level with the recruiting classes he had been bringing in.

I have to say, thank the heavens my skepticism on doing the right thing was dead wrong.

My hats off to Larry. He's a great man, better than me and a great example and reminder to fight for what's right.

He's done it right, he's finding success and he should only get better.

I'm very proud of him and what he's done. I hope I can someday be a semblance to the man he is.

[Utah]

So, attorneys and other smart guys, please educate me.
What, exactly, would these (alleged) crimes look like? I understand that it is a violation of NCAA rules to pay a player, etc., but that's not a crime (is it?).
Rather, from the espn article, I am inclined to think that the crime lies in something like extortion/bribery/racketeering/conspiracy/influence-peddling.

Obviously, extortion is illegal, but it is unclear to me at what point the others become bona fide crimes.

So, help a guy out. Please.

Isn't the FBI big into tax evasion? Maybe it's money passing hands and not being taxed.

For example, Bag Man gives coach $15,000. Coach doesn't pay taxes. Then coach gives AAU coach $15,000. No taxes paid. Then AAU gives player/player's handler $5,000. No taxes. That's a lot of money the government was screwed out of.

[LA Ute]

So, attorneys and other smart guys, please educate me.
What, exactly, would these (alleged) crimes look like? I understand that it is a violation of NCAA rules to pay a player, etc., but that's not a crime (is it?).
Rather, from the espn article, I am inclined to think that the crime lies in something like extortion/bribery/racketeering/conspiracy/influence-peddling.

Obviously, extortion is illegal, but it is unclear to me at what point the others become bona fide crimes.

So, help a guy out. Please.

According to the ESPN report, the charges are:


bribery conspiracy, solicitation of bribes, honest services fraud conspiracy, honest service fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud and Travel Act conspiracy. The U.S. Department of Justice said each of the coaches faces a maximum sentence of 80 years in prison.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20824193/ncaa-basketball-coaches-10-charged-fraud-corruption

With charges and potential prison terms of that magnitude we can expect to see a lot of flipping before too long. The masterminds of this entire scheme are the ones the FBI really wants.

So what is “honest services fraud“? It is based on a federal criminal statute, 18 U.S.C. § 1346, that has been criticized for its vagueness. The Supreme Court has tried to fix the vagueness issue by construing the statute narrowly:


[F]raudulent schemes to deprive another of honest services through bribes or kickbacks supplied by a third party who has not been deceived.

I’m sure that makes everything perfectly clear. Anyway, those guys are in a heap of trouble.

[U-Ute]

Well, this explains the sudden emergence of USC getting top notch players. That always bugged me.

[UtahsMrSports]

Well, this explains the sudden emergence of USC getting top notch players. That always bugged me.

A couple of years ago when Alabama hired Avery Johnson they suddenly launched into the top 5 in recruiting. I tweeted at Jerry Meyer of 247 sports and asked him why schools who suddenly shoot up the rankings (I brought up Alabama and Cal) are not immediately thoroughly investigated for violations. He basically said 'meh. If it was Utah you wouldn't have a problem'. Of course I would love to have a top tier recruiting class every year, but it would also bother me if we were cheating.

This whole thing bugs me knowing that we could have lost these top recruits to AZ because of money. But at hte end of the day, I truly believe Larry and co are clean. that makes me proud to be a Ute fan.

[Solon]

So, the follow-up articles on espn are marginally helpful.

They indicate that the coaches were soliciting/accepting bribes from athletic-gear companies (or just one), and agents, and then the coaches agreed to steer the players to them.
Some of that bribe-money / seed-money ended up in the hands of players, which is why the NCAA violations are afoot, but giving money to the players doesn't seem to be the crime.


However, the one article (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20826573/what-need-know-fbi-ncaa-basketball-investigation) seems to leave some gaps in the dot-to-dot.

For example:


Why is giving money to an assistant coach or young basketball player against the law?

The charges brought forward include violations of federal statutes on bribery and wire fraud, among other laws. Any assistant coach found to be taking bribes while employed by an institution receiving federal funds, for example, could be liable to prosecution under federal law.

This doesn't address why giving money to a "young basketball player" is against the law - probably because it doesn't seem to be.

[Scorcho]

Louisville's AD has been fired, Pitino expected to also be fired

[LA Ute]

Louisville's Rick Pitino tells staff he expects to lose his job (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20835336/louisville-basketball-coach-rick-pitino-tells-staff-expects-lose-job)

[Two Utes]

Louisville's Rick Pitino tells staff he expects to lose his job (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20835336/louisville-basketball-coach-rick-pitino-tells-staff-expects-lose-job)



He claims he didn't know ANYTHING about what was going on in his program. Doe she even work there? What a joke.

Moral to the story? You shouldn't surround yourself with turds. And, there comes a time in any relationship when you must refuse to defend said turds. Jurich would still be employed had he fired Pitino 3 years ago, like he should have.

[concerned]

what happens to the recruits, like Bowman, who got paid $100K. Do they lose eligibility? Do they get dismissed? I just saw that one of Chuck Person's top 100 Auburn recruits decommitted.

BTW--Thanks, Two Utes. That was very very informative.

[Solon]

I just saw that one of Chuck Person's top 100 Auburn recruits decommitted.
.
Do you think he would still be called The Rifleman in prison?

[U-Ute]

So, the follow-up articles on espn are marginally helpful.

They indicate that the coaches were soliciting/accepting bribes from athletic-gear companies (or just one), and agents, and then the coaches agreed to steer the players to them.
Some of that bribe-money / seed-money ended up in the hands of players, which is why the NCAA violations are afoot, but giving money to the players doesn't seem to be the crime.


However, the one article (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20826573/what-need-know-fbi-ncaa-basketball-investigation) seems to leave some gaps in the dot-to-dot.

For example:



This doesn't address why giving money to a "young basketball player" is against the law - probably because it doesn't seem to be.

The IRS would disagree.

[Solon]

The IRS would disagree.

that's a fair point. Is that being mentioned anywhere?

Also, at least now we have better information on who is shelling out the big-money for recruits. It's not just well-heeled boosters. It seems like it's a well-oiled industrial machine.
I really hope the kids involved don't suffer too much for this. I imagine that many of them were minors when the recruiting shenanigans went down.

[Diehard Ute]

Bill Riley tweeted today that as of now Under Armour has received no subpoenas of any kind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sancho]

I really hope the kids involved don't suffer too much for this. I imagine that many of them were minors when the recruiting shenanigans went down.

They're certainly less guilty than the coaches. But they did knowingly cheat at a sport.

[Two Utes]

They're certainly less guilty than the coaches. But they did knowingly cheat at a sport.

You are missing the big issue here. Guys like chuck person are directing mostly poor and uneducated kids and families to financial advisors, not because they are the best for these kids, but because they are paying these guys under the table to do so. They are totally taking advantage of these kids for personal gain and sending them to slime ball advisors who repeatedly rip these kids off.

[Two Utes]

You are missing the big issue here. First, Guys like chuck person are directing mostly poor and uneducated kids and families to financial advisors, not because they are the best for these kids, but because they are paying these guys under the table to do so. They are totally taking advantage of these kids for personal gain and sending them to slime ball advisors who repeatedly rip these kids off.


According to Pat Forde. Alabama is up next. It would surprise me if Avery Johnson was up to no good.

[sancho]

You are missing the big issue here. Guys like chuck person are directing mostly poor and uneducated kids and families to financial advisors, not because they are the best for these kids, but because they are paying these guys under the table to do so. They are totally taking advantage of these kids for personal gain and sending them to slime ball advisors who repeatedly rip these kids off.

I thought I said the students were less guilty? Of course they are not the slime balls.

[Scratch]

You are missing the big issue here. Guys like chuck person are directing mostly poor and uneducated kids and families to financial advisors, not because they are the best for these kids, but because they are paying these guys under the table to do so. They are totally taking advantage of these kids for personal gain and sending them to slime ball advisors who repeatedly rip these kids off.

Alabama's associate athletic director in charge of basketball just resigned.

[LA Ute]

I think the landscape of college basketball may change forever after this. I consider that a good thing.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I think the landscape of college basketball may change forever after this. I consider that a good thing.This absolutely is a GREAT thing.

The only thing that could make this better for CBB would be a statement from the NBA requiring players to be three years out of HS or 21 yrs old before joining the NBA.

[LA Ute]

This absolutely is a GREAT thing.

The only thing that could make this better for CBB would be a statement from the NBA requiring players to be three years out of HS or 21 yrs old before joining the NBA.

:highfive:

[sancho]

I think the landscape of college basketball may change forever after this. I consider that a good thing.

Maybe. It may be that we decide the ideal form of college athletics is impossible to enforce. It could lead to some pre-professional, minor league, olympic model stuff, which would be unfortunate.

[Applejack]

This absolutely is a GREAT thing.

The only thing that could make this better for CBB would be a statement from the NBA requiring players to be three years out of HS or 21 yrs old before joining the NBA.

I strongly disagree with this. If we want to avoid the paying of players, then let the players get paid! There should be no age limits on the NBA; if you are good enough to go, the NCAA certainly shouldn't stop you.

[DrumNFeather]

I strongly disagree with this. If we want to avoid the paying of players, then let the players get paid! There should be no age limits on the NBA; if you are good enough to go, the NCAA certainly shouldn't stop you.

I think there's probably some middle ground here. If a player doesn't want to go to college, and the NBA doesn't want to budge on its age limit, then those players should be allowed to be drafted into the NBDL (what is it called now? G - league?). If they really don't want to go to school, they can play in that league and make 25-35k per year, living in Boise, or Richmond, or wherever, and then when the time comes, they are eligible to be drafted into the NBA. If they are not good enough for the NBA (as is the case with some of the early entrants), they can stay in the D-League and at least have a career of some kind. In the meantime, the NBA should set up some kind of career counseling program that allows players that simply aren't good enough and got bad advice to find a vocation of some kind that works for them (even if that is playing ball overseas - Jimmer) so that they have something they can go to/fall back on.

[Solon]

I think there's probably some middle ground here. If a player doesn't want to go to college, and the NBA doesn't want to budge on its age limit, then those players should be allowed to be drafted into the NBDL (what is it called now? G - league?). If they really don't want to go to school, they can play in that league and make 25-35k per year, living in Boise, or Richmond, or wherever, and then when the time comes, they are eligible to be drafted into the NBA. If they are not good enough for the NBA (as is the case with some of the early entrants), they can stay in the D-League and at least have a career of some kind. In the meantime, the NBA should set up some kind of career counseling program that allows players that simply aren't good enough and got bad advice to find a vocation of some kind that works for them (even if that is playing ball overseas - Jimmer) so that they have something they can go to/fall back on.

ESPN reporting that Pitino is "Coach 2" in the documents.
i know the guy is innocent until proven guilty, but sheesh. It looks really bad for Pitino and Louisville.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20848092/louisville-cardinals-basketball-coach-rick-pitino-coach-2-federal-complaint-source

[NorthwestUteFan]

I strongly disagree with this. If we want to avoid the paying of players, then let the players get paid!



I completely agree with this part. They should get paid beyond tuition/expenses, and should be required to attend classes.

But everything should be above board and out in the open. There should be transparency and caps on the amount paid, otherwise the wealthiest schools will just outbid everyone else.

[sancho]

I completely agree with this part. They should get paid beyond tuition/expenses, and should be required to attend classes.

But everything should be above board and out in the open. There should be transparency and caps on the amount paid, otherwise the wealthiest schools will just outbid everyone else.

This will work fine...if there's a draft. Otherwise, the under-the-board stuff will continue but with a higher baseline.

If we abandon the idea that these are student-athletes, why continue with the pretense of the student part? Why should they have to enroll in class at all? They aren't there for a degree. They are there as a job. It would make a lot of things easier - no worries about eligibility. It's silly to say "you're fired from your basketball job because you got a D- in your chemistry lab."

I can see the winds of change, so I know college athletics as we know it can't survive for too long. I'd like to hold on as long as we can before we are officially a minor league, though.

In a pure free market scenario, how many student athletes are actually worth less than the tuition they currently receive?

[concerned]

Here is a scary thought:

what if college football and basketball dont exist in 20-30 years, at least in their current form and at current popularity levels?

football because of concussion and brain damage goes the way of boxing

bb because the NBA expands the G league to a full fledged minor league so that lots of players go there straightaway--they dont make NBA money, but they sign sneaker deals above board and legally, get rid of the middleman. (Dan patrick was speculating about this today)

[Solon]

This will work fine...if there's a draft. Otherwise, the under-the-board stuff will continue but with a higher baseline.

If we abandon the idea that these are student-athletes, why continue with the pretense of the student part? Why should they have to enroll in class at all? They aren't there for a degree. They are there as a job. It would make a lot of things easier - no worries about eligibility. It's silly to say "you're fired from your basketball job because you got a D- in your chemistry lab."

I can see the winds of change, so I know college athletics as we know it can't survive for too long. I'd like to hold on as long as we can before we are officially a minor league, though.

In a pure free market scenario, how many student athletes are actually worth less than the tuition they currently receive?

My suspicion is that most of them are worth less, when you consider the total number of male/female student-athletes in all of the different sports.
The big schools should probably spin off their football & men's basketball teams as independent businesses or whatever, and leave the amateurism for the other sports. College sports really does work for a lot of kids.

[sancho]

Here is a scary thought:

what if college football and basketball dont exist in 20-30 years, at least in their current form and at current popularity levels?

football because of concussion and brain damage goes the way of boxing

bb because the NBA expands the G league to a full fledged minor league so that lots of players go there straightaway--they dont make NBA money, but they sign sneaker deals above board and legally, get rid of the middleman. (Dan patrick was speculating about this today)

This is why the U should have added soccer instead of lacrosse. If football does die as a sport, we will need to replace it with something.

Sports in general seem to become less popular with each generation. The whole college athletics thing could die and be replaced with League of Legends tournaments.

[Utah]

I'd say follow the baseball model.

Expand the NBA draft to 5 rounds. To be eligible for the draft you must be 18 OR completed your college "tour of duty".

If you are drafted, you can go sign with your team or go play college ball. If you play college ball, you are not eligible for the draft for three years.

Expand NBA rosters to 25 players. 15 "NBA" players and 10 G-League players.

This way everyone can be drafted, NBA teams can put players in the G-League and pay them, and if a kid goes to college, then college teams have some sort of stability and the kids can be better coached.

[Utah]

This is why the U should have added soccer instead of lacrosse. If football does die as a sport, we will need to replace it with something.

Sports in general seem to become less popular with each generation. The whole college athletics thing could die and be replaced with League of Legends tournaments.

I'm going slightly off topic here, but I've thought about how sports are dying as well. It's so different now compared to when I grew up. I played football, basketball and baseball all throughout high school.

Now a days, these kids have so much more "sports" pressure than I did. I went to practice, played hard, and when the season ended, I moved onto the next sport. These days, they are year round.

Heck, even my 7 year old is playing city league soccer and he has practice three times a week and two games on some saturdays.

It's ridiculous. It's too much. He needs time to be a kid. Find bugs, climb trees, swear with his friends.

Putting your kid in a sport year round won't get them to college or the pros. Your kid has it or he doesn't. This culture now a days is silly.

I can see why sports are less popular now. It was fun for me growing up. Sports are almost like a job for these kids. It's too bad. I can see why they'd rather play/watch video games.

[LA Ute]

This is interesting, coming from an Arizona fan site:

Arizona basketball: Wildcats allegedly offered a recruit $150,000 per FBI documents


https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2017/9/27/16376992/arizona-wildcats-basketball-allegedly-offered-recruit-150000-fbi-documents-charges-book-richardson

[NorthwestUteFan]

Most players are probably worth less than the cost of their tuition, but that is taking the dollar cost of the incredibly overpriced tuition at face value.

Is the $30k+ tuition at most schools REALLY worth $30k? To most kids, no way.

[Scorcho]

http://www.utahby5.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2269&stc=1

can't wait for 3.0

[Applejack]

I don't think colleges should pay great athletes (I have no issues if they want to, but the way I understand higher education they shouldn't). What I think is really causing heartburn for some could be eliminated if the NBA (and the NFL) dropped the pretense and just allowed anybody, regardless of age, to be drafted. Then the whole 1-and-done phenomenon would die.

[LA Ute]

I don't think colleges should pay great athletes (I have no issues if they want to, but the way I understand higher education they shouldn't). What I think is really causing heartburn for some could be eliminated if the NBA (and the NFL) dropped the pretense and just allowed anybody, regardless of age, to be drafted. Then the whole 1-and-done phenomenon would die.

What do you think about handling it the way MLB does?


In the NFL and NBA drafts, high school players are (now) ineligible. College players who are underclassmen must declare for the draft. If they remain in the draft until it occurs, they have given up NCAA eligibility and have "gone pro" whether they are drafted or not.

In the MLB draft, a player can be picked as many as five times before signing. Players are eligible after their high school senior year. They can be drafted, but even after being drafted they can either sign or opt to go to school.

At that point, a player who goes to a four-year institution is with one exception ineligible to be drafted again until after his third year in school.
But even then, a player picked after his third year in school can opt to return to school again.

That one exception is players who turn 21 within 45 days of the end of the draft are eligible to be drafted whether they are in their third year of school or not. Usually this rule applies to sophomores, but in a few exceptions freshmen have been eligible as well.

A player who goes to a junior college can be drafted at the end of any year of their junior college career. So conceivably, a player can be drafted in high school, after a freshman year at a junior college, again after their sophomore season at a junior college, then after a redshirt year at a Division I school, again after their redshirt junior season and then after their senior season.

Slot bonus rules means that most teams now sign all their top 10-round picks and most of their picks in the top 15 rounds. But very few teams ever sign everyone they draft and some draftees will never even receiver a significant bonus offer from the team that picked them.


Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/how-the-mlb-draft-is-different/#GRiWbZkzOxVVh4tU.99

[U-Ute]

Nike's EYBL served a subpoena.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20847512/nike-elite-youth-basketball-league-served-subpoena-sources

[U-Ute]

LOL

New logos for the 6 schools involved (https://imgur.com/a/1RlAv)

[U-Ute]

The story starts in the financial sector. With a financial manager, a suit maker, and Chuck Person.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20834050/the-story-how-fbi-brought-words-corruption

[LA Ute]

Larry Krystkowiak talks frankly about recruiting in aftermath of FBI/NCAA scandal

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2017/09/30/utahs-larry-krystkowiak-college-basketball-scandal-has-put-a-big-egg-on-a-lot-of-our-faces/

Good comments by Larry. I am starting to feel a little worried about what will happen next. I’m sure that the big targets of these investigations have hired the best law firms to represent them. I wonder what phone calls have been made to legislators, and what kind of pressure will be brought against the Department of Justice? My jaded side is starting to manifest itself. I hope there’s no backing down.

[DrumNFeather]

Larry Krystkowiak talks frankly about recruiting in aftermath of FBI/NCAA scandal

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2017/09/30/utahs-larry-krystkowiak-college-basketball-scandal-has-put-a-big-egg-on-a-lot-of-our-faces/

Good comments by Larry. I am starting to feel a little worried about what will happen next. I’m sure that the big targets of these investigations have hired the best law firms to represent them. I wonder what phone calls have been made to legislators, and what kind of pressure will be brought against the Department of Justice? My jaded side is starting to manifest itself. I hope there’s no backing down.

Larry was on with Bill Reilly today and said that the folks at Kuzma's prep school were trying to get 50k for Kyle to come on the visit, and then another 50k to get him to sign. Kyle and his guardian ended up paying their own way on the unofficial visit and he committed on the visit. They reported it to the NCAA at the time. Oh by the way, that prep school is still in business. Larry bringing the heat!

[concerned]

I wonder if Cedric Barfield got paid by Larry Brown or some shoe company to go to SMU.

[Brian]

Larry was on with Bill Reilly today and said that the folks at Kuzma's prep school were trying to get 50k for Kyle to come on the visit, and then another 50k to get him to sign. Kyle and his guardian ended up paying their own way on the unofficial visit and he committed on the visit. They reported it to the NCAA at the time. Oh by the way, that prep school is still in business. Larry bringing the heat!

dumb question about recruiting.
Why did Kyle have to pay his own way for an unofficial? I'm assuming the H.S. has to sign off on the official visit?

[Sullyute]

dumb question about recruiting.
Why did Kyle have to pay his own way for an unofficial? I'm assuming the H.S. has to sign off on the official visit?

I believe a school has to have a copy of the students transcript in order to make it an official visit. Why Kyle couldn't just send it to them, I don't know.

[Scorcho]

I believe a school has to have a copy of the students transcript in order to make it an official visit. Why Kyle couldn't just send it to them, I don't know.

maybe Kuz sent it to the wrong team or bounced it off his foot

:rimshot:

.
.
.

that joke :bomb:

[Diehard Ute]

I believe a school has to have a copy of the students transcript in order to make it an official visit. Why Kyle couldn't just send it to them, I don't know.

A copy of both the transcript and a standardized test score are required.

Sounds like the prep school was playing games and Kuz and his guardian decided to just bypass it all together.


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[concerned]

I am starting to think the hammer might come down on Sean Miller. His press conference to day was not good. Tillerson made a better try at plausible deniability than he did.

[Solon]

A copy of both the transcript and a standardized test score are required.

Sounds like the prep school was playing games and Kuz and his guardian decided to just bypass it all together.


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im just spitballing here, but I do know that official transcripts have to be issued from the school directly to the requesting party, and can't come into contact with the student. Maybe the U needed an official transcript, which n only come from the official channels.


I am starting to think the hammer might come down on Sean Miller. His press conference to day was not good. Tillerson made a better try at plausible deniability than he did.

What happened? Anything concrete?

[U-Ute]

I believe a school has to have a copy of the students transcript in order to make it an official visit. Why Kyle couldn't just send it to them, I don't know.

It sounds like someone at the prep school was holding his transcripts hostage.

[Scorcho]

Hearing more indictments are coming in college hoops. Expected to happen within the next two weeks, I'm told.

8:29 AM - 6 Oct 2017

https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/916324472550055938

[concerned]

What happened? Anything concrete?

No. Just body language and what he didn't say.

[LA Ute]

The wheels of justice are turning.

Federal grand jury indicts USC assistant Tony Bland in college basketball bribery case (http://beta.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-college-basketball-indictments-20171107-story.html#nws=true)

[LA Ute]

Wow. From Jon Wilner's newsletter today. I wonder how Sean Miller is feeling?


Basketball corruption: Widespread fallout expected

We’ll start with a whopper of a story by Yahoo's Pete Thamel, who reported Thursday that dozens of top programs and coaches will be implicated (http://enews.email.bayareanewsgroup.com/q/bfLRmsk8qcrDK3pt0u70VdIvz_3IcN9vdCFf1KJjZcJMm1Uv5s D5deRgtf_A) by the FBI investigation:

“What’s certain is that there’s enough compromising information to rock the sport to its core. There will be thousands of pages of documents, hundreds of hours of wiretaps with the voices of prominent coaches brokering deals with the middlemen, sneaker executives and talent traffickers.”

The disclosure of actionable information (for the NCAA’s enforcement staff) will likely surface in pre-trial motions and during the trials, which don’t begin until the fall, Thamel reported. So this will play out over the next 12-18 months.

Which Pac-12 teams should be worried, above and beyond the two (Arizona and USC) already involved?

That’s easy: Everybody, because you never know what potential rules violations could be discovered once the NCAA begins poking around campuses and interviewing players and coaches.

But first and foremost, any program that has been involved with Lottery Pick-caliber recruits should be on high alert. The highest bid might not have been the only bid. — Jon Wilner.

Here's Pete Thamel's story:

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-college-hoops-corruption-case-poised-take-hall-fame-coaches-top-programs-lottery-picks-224417174.html

[Brian]

I hope the the Oregon St. student section reminds Sean of the investigation next week with lots of signs and chants.

[concerned]

I hope the the Oregon St. student section reminds Sean of the investigation next week lots of signs and chants.

Did ASU drop the ball on that? I fear they did.

[sancho]

But first and foremost, any program that has been involved with Lottery Pick-caliber recruits should be on high alert. The highest bid might not have been the only bid. — Jon Wilner.

I hope it's not us. It's one thing to cheat and get a star player. It would really be awful to get busted and punished for NOT landing a star.

[Two Utes]

I hope it's not us. It's one thing to cheat and get a star player. It would really be awful to get busted and punished for NOT landing a star.

You're not paying attention Sancho. K has been pretty vocal about losing kids to other schools that were willing to pay. Look at the roster. A bunch of overachievers, not one and donners. Look at the schools who have one and dones. Look at Az, So cal to a lesser extent. Maybe Oregon and UCLA. But look closer at the UCLA kids. They are usually not the highest profile kids. They are four stars, but besides Ball, who wasn't unbelievably heralded out of high school, they have 3 and four year really good basketball players. The Schools who will need to look out are Duke North Carolina, Kentucky (although I think Coach Cal is clean funny enough) Arizona, Auburn, Louisville, Cal a few years back, Kansas, Michigan State, Ohio State, SMU.

Follow the highly heralded kids out of high school. Where did they go?

How did Bruce Pearl get a top ten class to Auburn? His charming personality just did it, I guess.

[LA Ute]

You're not paying attention LA sancho. K has been pretty vocal about losing kids to other schools that were willing to pay. Look at the roster. A bunch of overachievers, not one and donners. Look at the schools who have one and dones. Look at Az, So cal to a lesser extent. Maybe Oregon and UCLA. But look closer at the UCLA kids. They are usually not the highest profile kids. They are four stars, but besides Ball, who wasn't unbelievably heralded out of high school, they have 3 and four year really good basketball players. The Schools who will need to look out are Duke North Carolina, Kentucky (although I think Coach Cal is clean funny enough) Arizona, Auburn, Louisville, Cal a few years back, Kansas, Michigan State, Ohio State, SMU.

Follow the highly heralded kids out of high school. Where did they go?

Fixed it for you.

Are you suggesting that top recruits flocked to USC not because of Andy Enfield's terrific reputation as a guy who gets people ready for the NBA? Or maybe he's just an amazingly gifted recruiter. Why else would USC, never a hoops school, suddenly become the destination for highly-touted high school players? :rolleyes:

[Two Utes]

Fixed it for you.

Are you suggesting that top recruits flocked to USC not because of Andy Enfield's terrific reputation as a guy who gets people ready for the NBA? Or maybe he's just an amazingly gifted recruiter. Why else would USC, never a hoops school, suddenly become the destination for highly-touted high school players? :rolleyes:

Thanks for the correction and that's a terrific question. Or how about Larry Brown? Guy has a reputation for quitting jobs every two or three years, but as soon as he gets the SMU job, he starts landing 5 and 4 stars at a school that has a rich rich history in basketball. He isjust so charming and such an unbelievable coach that everybody wants to go to SMU.

As David James said this morning on the radio: These last 5 years or so may be a really good time to be an underacheiver in the college basketball world.

As you know, my son played at Tennessee last year and I know those guys don't cheat. They were good last year--just a little too young, especially at the guard spot. Their success this year is absolutely no surprise to me. Barnes and his staff have a team full of three stars that they have simply coached up. Same goes for Utah. I'm a big fan of both schools.

[concerned]

Fixed it for you.

Are you suggesting that top recruits flocked to USC not because of Andy Enfield's terrific reputation as a guy who gets people ready for the NBA? Or maybe he's just an amazingly gifted recruiter. Why else would USC, never a hoops school, suddenly become the destination for highly-touted high school players? :rolleyes:

I was listening to speculation on the radio this morning about schools that recruit above their pay grade. They were throwing out lots of possibliites--USC obviously, ASU, UConn, West Virginia (would Huggins surprise anybody?), even Gonzaga and Wichita State. DJ was saying that for years he has heard people in the business say over and over and over, "he wont go there--it is a nike school and he is loyal to Adidas." They are "loyal" to Addidas because Addidas sponsored their AAU team (ie., they received payments from Addidas through their AAU team.)

Cal under Cuonzo and UW under Romar would not surprise me.

[Two Utes]

I was listening to speculation on the radio this morning about schools that recruit above their pay grade. They were throwing out lots of possibliites--USC obviously, ASU, UConn, West Virginia (would Huggins surprise anybody?), even Gonzaga and Wichita State. DJ was saying that for years he has heard people in the business say over and over and over, "he wont go there--it is a nike school and he is loyal to Adidas." They are "loyal" to Addidas because Addidas sponsored their AAU team (ie., they received payments from Addidas through their AAU team.)

I would be really surprised if Gonzaga was involved. Look at their players. They aren't usually one and dones.

[sancho]

You're not paying attention Sancho. K has been pretty vocal about losing kids to other schools that were willing to pay. Look at the roster. A bunch of overachievers, not one and donners. Look at the schools who have one and dones. Look at Az, So cal to a lesser extent. Maybe Oregon and UCLA. But look closer at the UCLA kids. They are usually not the highest profile kids. They are four stars, but besides Ball, who wasn't unbelievably heralded out of high school, they have 3 and four year really good basketball players. The Schools who will need to look out are Duke North Carolina, Kentucky (although I think Coach Cal is clean funny enough) Arizona, Auburn, Louisville, Cal a few years back, Kansas, Michigan State, Ohio State, SMU.

Follow the highly heralded kids out of high school. Where did they go?

How did Bruce Pearl get a top ten class to Auburn? His charming personality just did it, I guess.

Yeah, some schools are obvious (Cal, SMU, Auburn, USC). Wilner's article made it sound like there could be schools on the list that are not obvious. If that's the case, a lack of one-and-done's is not enough to feel safe.

Anyway, I think we're safe at Utah, but nothing about college basketball recruiting would surprise me.

[U-Ute]

Cal under Cuonzo and UW under Romar would not surprise me.

Oh man. I'd be pissed as a booster given how mediocre they've been then.

[SoCalPat]

I would be really surprised if Gonzaga was involved. Look at their players. They aren't usually one and dones.

Wichita State as well. Ron Baker was a walk-on. Cleanthony Early was a D-III JUCO A-A. Fred VanVliet wasn't offered by any major conference school.

If you're gonna suspect WSU, you might as well suspect Utah as well.

[Two Utes]

Wichita State as well. Ron Baker was a walk-on. Cleanthony Early was a D-III JUCO A-A. Fred VanVliet wasn't offered by any major conference school.

If you're gonna suspect WSU, you might as well suspect Utah as well.

Agree 100%. He's coached up his kids.

Now Kansas? Good coach, but they might be in trouble as well.

[concerned]

Kuzma? Scroll down

https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.html

[Rocker Ute]

Kuzma? Scroll down

https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.html

Yikes


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[Diehard Ute]

I’d say this leaves more questions than answers.

Lots of lines of payed out money, which would appear to be bad business as these guys never seemed to sign, but there’s nothing to corroborate it. There’s nothing showing how these payments were made, or who they were made to.

And frankly, why would anyone spend money trying to get Kuz to sign in the fall of 2015?


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[Irving Washington]

I’d say this leaves more questions than answers.

Lots of lines of payed out money, which would appear to be bad business as these guys never seemed to sign, but there’s nothing to corroborate it. There’s nothing showing how these payments were made, or who they were made to.

And frankly, why would anyone spend money trying to get Kuz to sign in the fall of 2015?


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And add Wichita State to the list.

[tooblue]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22553502/fbi-probe-corruption-reveals-basketball-powers-broken-ncaa-rules


Other teams with current or former players who allegedly received payments were South Carolina, Louisville, Utah, Xavier, Wichita State, Clemson and Alabama. Other players named include former LSU guard Tim Quarterman, former Maryland center Diamond Stone and former Kentucky center Edrice "Bam" Adebayo.

[UTEopia]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22553502/fbi-probe-corruption-reveals-basketball-powers-broken-ncaa-rules

I do remember Keith VanHorn receiving an extra benefit when Majerus bought him dinner to tell him his father had died and the paid for a plane ticket to the funeral, but I'm guessing the allegation is more recent than that. Interesting. Now all the speculation will start.

[Diehard Ute]

I do remember Keith VanHorn receiving an extra benefit when Majerus bought him dinner to tell him his father had died and the paid for a plane ticket to the funeral, but I'm guessing the allegation is more recent than that. Interesting. Now all the speculation will start.

Kuzma’s name is on a list saying he received $9,500 sometime before 12/31/15 from an agent

It doesn’t detail when it was paid, to whom it was paid or anything else.

It’s an odd timeframe for a pro agent to try and sway Kuz, no one really knew where Kuz was headed at that time.


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[UTEopia]

Kuzma’s name is on a list saying he received $9,500 sometime before 12/31/15 from an agent

It doesn’t detail when it was paid, to whom it was paid or anything else.

It’s an odd timeframe for a pro agent to try and sway Kuz, no one really knew where Kuz was headed at that time.


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There was a story about Kuzma indicating that a high school coach or somebody told Utah coaches they needed to pay him to get Kuzma on an official visit.

[LA Ute]

Several questions arise. The article says the records show Kuzma received $9,500 “while in school.” Does that mean in school at the U? Or in prep school? Who got the money, Kyle or his coach/school? (IIRC it was the school, or someone affiliated with it, that Larry said demanded $50K for Kyle’s transcript.) We’ll see where this goes. Might not be pretty.


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[UtahsMrSports]

With how outspoken Larry has been about this, particularly about the Kuzma recruitment story, I have to believe that he and the staff knew nothing about this.

[Scratch]

Isn't this a record for 2015? So Kuzma was loaned $9500 from an agent while he was playing for the U? I don't really see how this has anything to do with the U staff, other than they had an ineligible player playing for them (that they were presumably unaware of). It's certainly not a good thing, but I don't see anything terribly negative as it relates to our coaches or program.

[UTEopia]

Isn't this a record for 2015? So Kuzma was loaned $9500 from an agent while he was playing for the U? I don't really see how this has anything to do with the U staff, other than they had an ineligible player playing for them (that they were presumably unaware of). It's certainly not a good thing, but I don't see anything terribly negative as it relates to our coaches or program.

There will certainly be some coaches in some programs aware of players receiving money from agents, but my guess is the vast majority of these types of payments were unknown to coaches.

[concerned]

There will certainly be some coaches in some programs aware of players receiving money from agents, but my guess is the vast majority of these types of payments were unknown to coaches.


Mandel's earlier article said there were wiretaps, so we may find out, to some extent (at least the more recent ones).

[tooblue]

Utah is listed immediately following Louisville ... what the F is going on, on the hill?

[sancho]

Still nothing on Yurtseven, who we know took money, right? For as long as this list is, there must be an even longer list of those who are going to get away with it.

[sancho]

And frankly, why would anyone spend money trying to get Kuz to sign in the fall of 2015?


Kuz was a reasonably well regarded recruit, right?

[LA Ute]

Utah is listed immediately following Louisville ... what the F is going on, on the hill?

Corruption oozing out everywhere.

[concerned]

Utah's response


https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2018/02/23/report-ex-ute-kyle-kuzma-among-those-who-received-money-while-in-school-according-to-fbi-documents/

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Utah's response


https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2018/02/23/report-ex-ute-kyle-kuzma-among-those-who-received-money-while-in-school-according-to-fbi-documents/

In case people have hit their monthly Trib allotment.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180223/2830711745fd8d42869198181433029c.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180223/56c4f407ef6820bda446dbd7d3a95166.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180223/d70ea1ea7274be65c89956f6d6859397.jpg


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[concerned]

In case people have hit their monthly Trib allotment.




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If you have hit your monthly allotment, you should cough up. Where would this state be if the Trib went under? (even if you are out of state)

[concerned]

Another thought: these payments allegedly occurred before Dec. 31, 2015. The payments to Fultz and d. Smith, at least, have to have occured while they were in high school. could same be true of Kuzma (if they happened during 2015, obviously not, if before, maybe).

[sancho]

Sean Miller in trouble:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22559284/sean-miller-arizona-christian-dawkins-discussed-payment-ensure-deandre-ayton-signing-according-fbi-investigation

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

This seems...significant.

967236840318291968


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[hostile]

This seems...significant.

967236840318291968


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Wow.

[SoCalPat]

And add Wichita State to the list.

VanVleet took a loan for $4K from an agent. Big deal. I'm not gonna pretend Shockers with pro potential aren't talking with agents. I have no problem with that. The idea that WSU is shelling out $100K for players is laughable -- and the more serious offense.

[SoCalPat]

This seems...significant.

967236840318291968


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Miller should resign, and if he doesn't, every AD in the league needs to order their team from taking the floor against Arizona in Las Vegas. This kind of overt, caught-red-handed cheating, so long as it's against NCAA rules, cannot be endorsed in the slightest. I suspect it won't get that far, and Zona names an interim coach while Miller, at best, is suspended (and ultimately fired). Arizona's also playing with fire if it lets Ayton play in any more games.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Miller should resign, and if he doesn't, every AD in the league needs to order their team from taking the floor against Arizona in Las Vegas. This kind of overt, caught-red-handed cheating, so long as it's against NCAA rules, cannot be endorsed in the slightest. I suspect it won't get that far, and Zona names an interim coach while Miller, at best, is suspended (and ultimately fired). Arizona's also playing with fire if it lets Ayton play in any more games.

Miller wondering what all the fuss is about.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180224/7a7b969102ca2ce8d89a16b58edcec86.jpg


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[concerned]

Gee,i wonder about Akot and markaanen.

Good news is that unlike Louisville, Arizona won't have to forfeit any national championships

[LA Ute]

If this is true then I guess the rest of Miller’s life will be spent working as the cook in a monastery somewhere. Or maybe hosting a sports talk radio show.

[sancho]

Good news is that unlike Louisville, Arizona won't have to forfeit any national championships

Zing!

[Mormon Red Death]

So when is the hammer coming down on Enfield?

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[Mormon Red Death]

https://twitter.com/BrucePascoe/status/967261611227463681

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[U-Ute]

Wow. Dickie V bringing some chin music.

967267977522532352

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[Rocker Ute]

All the excuses now coming out around this are eerily similar to all the doping scandals in cycling. You are going to start hearing things so implausible it seems crazy enough to be true. Disgraced US cyclists Tyler Hamilton tried to claim he was a chimera (basically a twin absorbing another twin in the womb and having two blood types); Floyd Landon tried to claim that a post ride beer increased his testosterone to banned levels and (apparently) made it synthetic; Lance Armstrong proponents claimed that cancer treatment and survival actually made his red blood cells go UP after heavy exertion; and, disgraced Spanish rider Alberto Contador that somebody feed him tainted beef that had a banned substance (and also somehow put plasticizers found on IV bags in his blood).

I could go on for days about the silly types of excuses that come out at this level of corruption and the fans willingness to believe. I fully expect to hear Sean Miller claim he was talking about the candy bar, not $100 grand in actual cash.


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[LA Ute]

https://twitter.com/BrucePascoe/status/967261611227463681

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Here’s the Greg Hansen piece. It hits hard:

Greg Hansen: Sean Miller cannot be allowed to coach the Wildcats again

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/greg-hansen-arizona-s-program-has-gone-way-out-of/article_55cfad32-540d-5fca-b26e-9af3aacc6c5b.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share

[LA Ute]

The Arizona fan board is interesting, and kinda entertaining:

http://beardownwildcats.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=59&start=4400

[concerned]

On college game day, Jay billis just said that this is career ending. Said Miller will never coach in college again. And bilis has been a big defender of Miller up till now. Will be interesting to see what happens to Arizona financially, if they have to honor Miller's contract in the event he is fired for cause. That's a lot of money to pay out when you have to fund the rest of your athletic department, and the payee has disgraced you. Arizona may not recover for a long long time

[LA Ute]

On college game day, Jay billis just said that this is career ending. Said Miller will never coach in college again. And bilis has been a big defender of Miller up till now. Will be interesting to see what happens to Arizona financially, if they have to honor Miller's contract in the event he is fired for cause. That's a lot of money to pay out when you have to fund the rest of your athletic department, and the payee has disgraced you. Arizona may not recover for a long long time

I must admit that after my encounters with Arizona fans attending games at the Huntsman, I’m experiencing a bit of schadenfreude.

[sancho]

I must admit that after my encounters with Arizona fans attending games at the Huntsman, I’m experiencing a bit of schadenfreude.

But Utah is on the list. Until that is cleared up, we don't really have much moral high ground. I hope/expect that Larry will be cleared, but right now, we are on a naughty list. Of course, the Miller news was great because it dwarfed the earlier news.

[sancho]

Arizona may not recover for a long long time

That would be great. Could be a window of opportunity for us, especially with a strong class coming in. Of course, Zona could be just fine. They are a strong program.

[concerned]

Until last night, I did not know that they had served a search warrant on Sean Miller's home, and taken his computers and records. You would think that somebody down there was waiting for the hammer to drop

[redastheycome]

Beat me to the punch. I, too, hope that Larry will be cleared. And it is darkly fun to watch the squirming of the genuine AZholes (as opposed to the cool UofA fans of which there are surely many). But we aren't totally out of the proverbial woods.

> I can't be the only one a little hacked off at Kuzma right now. It looks like he was, at the very least, willing to take a loan at some point, even if it turns out no $$ ever changed hands. Even if Kyle's family/Larry/everyone else had nothing to do with it, it's a problem. True, there is huge disparity in severity between what Kuzma (maybe? probably?) did and the fiasco in Tuscon. Yes, the NCAA amateur rules are problematic at best, downright ridiculous at worst, and put athletes in a situation where a morally neutral act such as taking a loan can run afoul of the rules. But said rules are currently in effect, like it or not. And Kuzma's alleged violation of them may bring consequences that will largely be borne by people not named Kuzma.

> Larry had better have been telling the truth when he went off on that rant back in the fall. It would be one thing if he employed the see/hear-no-evil approach that would have allowed him to maintain plausible deniability in the event one of his players did something questionable. But since Larry claimed, loudly and publicly, that his program does everything by the book (which I liked at the time and still hope is borne out), ambiguous outcomes seem unlikely. Either he's totally exonerated and is poised to be one of the white knights that takes advantage of whatever environment emerges from all this, or he's exposed as a brazen liar even if the scope of wrongdoing turns out to be small in comparison with other programs. Oh, and he singled out Kuzma as a positive example to boot (even if the rest of the rant was true, have to think he'd like to have that part back).

[NorthwestUteFan]

Isn't Arizona also paying out Rich Rodriguez' contract?

Also, did Sean Miller ever take AZ beyond the Sweet 16 or Elite 8? It would be a shame to never go very deep without much tourney success, after all that expensive cheating...

[Mormon Red Death]

I must admit that after my encounters with Arizona fans attending games at the Huntsman, I’m experiencing a bit of schadenfreude.Go to Vegas and your schadenfreude of the azholes will more delighting

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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Isn't Arizona also paying out Rich Rodriguez' contract?

Also, did Sean Miller ever take AZ beyond the Sweet 16 or Elite 8? It would be a shame to never go very deep without much tourney success, after all that expensive cheating...

So, somehow Miller’s contract states that his payout is $5M higher if he gets fired WITH cause than if he gets fired WITHOUT cause. Brilliant strategy, Sean.

967444771580121089


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Beat me to the punch. I, too, hope that Larry will be cleared. And it is darkly fun to watch the squirming of the genuine AZholes (as opposed to the cool UofA fans of which there are surely many). But we aren't totally out of the proverbial woods.

> I can't be the only one a little hacked off at Kuzma right now. It looks like he was, at the very least, willing to take a loan at some point, even if it turns out no $$ ever changed hands. Even if Kyle's family/Larry/everyone else had nothing to do with it, it's a problem. True, there is huge disparity in severity between what Kuzma (maybe? probably?) did and the fiasco in Tuscon. Yes, the NCAA amateur rules are problematic at best, downright ridiculous at worst, and put athletes in a situation where a morally neutral act such as taking a loan can run afoul of the rules. But said rules are currently in effect, like it or not. And Kuzma's alleged violation of them may bring consequences that will largely be borne by people not named Kuzma.

> Larry had better have been telling the truth when he went off on that rant back in the fall. It would be one thing if he employed the see/hear-no-evil approach that would have allowed him to maintain plausible deniability in the event one of his players did something questionable. But since Larry claimed, loudly and publicly, that his program does everything by the book (which I liked at the time and still hope is borne out), ambiguous outcomes seem unlikely. Either he's totally exonerated and is poised to be one of the white knights that takes advantage of whatever environment emerges from all this, or he's exposed as a brazen liar even if the scope of wrongdoing turns out to be small in comparison with other programs. Oh, and he singled out Kuzma as a positive example to boot (even if the rest of the rant was true, have to think he'd like to have that part back).

But if Metu is on that same ledger and USC has no problem playing him this afternoon, maybe It that list isn’t so naughty.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

> I can't be the only one a little hacked off at Kuzma right now. It looks like he was, at the very least, willing to take a loan at some point, even if it turns out no $$ ever changed hands. Even if Kyle's family/Larry/everyone else had nothing to do with it, it's a problem. True, there is huge disparity in severity between what Kuzma (maybe? probably?) did and the fiasco in Tuscon. Yes, the NCAA amateur rules are problematic at best, downright ridiculous at worst, and put athletes in a situation where a morally neutral act such as taking a loan can run afoul of the rules. But said rules are currently in effect, like it or not. And Kuzma's alleged violation of them may bring consequences that will largely be borne by people not named Kuzma.





I recognize the situation scholarship athletes are in and have empathy for them. Sure, their tuition and housing is paid for, and they can eat at the cafeteria. But if they need more money or want to send money to family they are stuck. Some kids send part of their stipend money home to help out.

But they can't get a job during a semester in which they play, so fall and spring semester are both out. They can't get a bank loan without a job or collateral, and iirc there are some restrictions against getting student loans when on full scholarship. Tough situation for a 19-20 yr old player who is watching his family struggling, despite being worth millions to his school.

So Agent Moneybags comes around and offers a loan, on terms the player can afford, and without a paper trail, it would seem to be a lifeline and would be difficult to turn down.

On a similar note, I once sold a car to a friend's college-aged daughter and I carried the note since she didn't have a credit history. Along the way I had to let her skip some payments, and let her work off other payments by babysitting. But had she been an athlete I wonder if that could have been some sort of improper benefit that would have got her in trouble with ncaa compliance?

[Old Standing ute]

The Arizona fan board is interesting, and kinda entertaining:

http://beardownwildcats.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=59&start=4400

Beyond entertaining---shows that fans can really be blind or stupid. Several said Miller knew he was on tape & was a mole for the FBI trying to land bigger fish--LOL.

And or everyone does this so it is not wrong---incredible logic that many criminals also use.

& they won't take down the Dukies, but will get AZ as they are not big enough-----slapping themselves in the face.

Their fans are obnoxious----which included my deceased mother---RIP--who loved Lute Olsen.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

967491433228677120


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[Mormon Red Death]

967491433228677120


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBear down and drop a bag of cash

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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

I wonder if checks are getting cancelled. Although, I doubt that O’Neal is in need of any such payments.

967499257765756928


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[SoCalPat]

Uncomfortable question that has to be asked: How do we view Hanno Mattolla going forward if we find out he was aware of payments to Lauri Markannen?

[LA Ute]

Uncomfortable question that has to be asked: How do we view Hanno Mattolla going forward if we find out he was aware of payments to Lauri Markannen?

Not well, IMO.

[Solon]

Not well, IMO.
Don’t worry, folks.
Miller is confident that he will be vindicated.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/967509991509954560?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp %5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[concerned]

Uncomfortable question that has to be asked: How do we view Hanno Mattolla going forward if we find out he was aware of payments to Lauri Markannen?

Maybe he got paid too.

[sancho]

Uncomfortable question that has to be asked: How do we view Hanno Mattolla going forward if we find out he was aware of payments to Lauri Markannen?

What would we want Hanno to do if he was aware of payments to Lauri? Tell the press? Does Hanno have a paper trail?

We are all aware of payments to Yurtseven, but we can't really do anything about it.

[Old Standing ute]

What would we want Hanno to do if he was aware or payments to Lauri? Tell the press? Does Hanno have a paper trail?

We are all aware of payments to Yurtseven, but we can't really do anything about it.

Agreed. what can he do---I guess tell Larry K he is screwed unless he starts cheating too, which Larry already knows.

[concerned]

Has anybody seen an answer to this question: why did Miller not get indicted with the asst coach and everybody else in Sept. or so? They had him on tape; they must have had him for wire fraud or conspiracy. Was there no evidence tying him to an actual payment?

Also curious as to why it leaked now.

[LA Ute]

Has anybody seen an answer to this question: why did Miller not get indicted with the asst coach and everybody else in Sept. or so? They had him on tape; they must have had him for wire fraud or conspiracy. Was there no evidence tying him to an actual payment?

Also curious as to why it leaked now.

The first possibility that comes to
my mind is that that are working up from the small fish to the big ones. We shouldn’t be surprised to see the hammer drop pretty soon.

(The foregoing is pure speculation.)


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[concerned]

The first possibility that comes to
my mind is that that are working up from the small fish to the big ones. We shouldn’t be surprised to see the hammer drop pretty soon.

(The foregoing is pure speculation.)


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The other thing that just occurred to me is that they got the asst for taking money for himself from the agent. Maybe they dont (or didnt then) have any evidence that Ayton actually got money, all they have is Miller talking about how to do it.

I suspect they are trying to get the asst to flip on Miller, and he hasnt done it yet.

[Old Standing ute]

I thought the NCAA held the head coach responsible for his assist.?
Especially an assist who has worked for the head coach for so many years, so he can't claim it was a newer assist that they did not have a deep relationship.

[concerned]

I thought the NCAA held the head coach responsible for his assist.?
Especially an assist who has worked for the head coach for so many years, so he can't claim it was a newer assist that they did not have a deep relationship.

Maybe it is not the same if the assistant is doing a side deal for his own benefit behind the back the program. Is not acting on behalf of the program necessarily. I think that was Miller's contention in October

[Diehard Ute]

Maybe it is not the same if the assistant is doing a side deal for his own benefit behind the back the program. Is not acting on behalf of the program necessarily. I think that was Miller's contention in October

If cookies and milk are lack of institutional control, so is discussing 6 figure payoffs to land a recruit


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[concerned]

If cookies and milk are lack of institutional control, so is discussing 6 figure payoffs to land a recruit


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Yes but you cant indict and arrest a coach for lack of institutional control. C'mon, you know that.

[sancho]

So Sean Miller's contract gives him a huge lump of money for this. Does that mean both he and Arizona anticipated the possibility of getting canned for cheating?

[U-Ute]

So Sean Miller's contract gives him a huge lump of money for this. Does that mean both he and Arizona anticipated the possibility of getting canned for cheating?

It certainly seems like Arizona incentivized the possibility.

“We know you have to cheat to succeed. We will pay you out if you get busted.”


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[SoCalPat]

It certainly seems like Arizona incentivized the possibility.

“We know you have to cheat to succeed. We will pay you out if you get busted.”


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No school would ever propose that idea. Not in a million years. But they might acquiesce to it if Miller's agent proposed it. That way, you've got plausible deniability from the school and the HC.

Either way, anyone in Arizona's athletic department who signed off on this should be fired.

[concerned]

No school would ever propose that idea. Not in a million years. But they might acquiesce to it if Miller's agent proposed it. That way, you've got plausible deniability from the school and the HC.

Either way, anyone in Arizona's athletic department who signed off on this should be fired.

Just fire him for convenience instead of cause. Problem solved.

[Rocker Ute]

Yeah this is a pretty easy solution if the payout for firing with cause is larger... just let him go citing no reason and a desire to go another direction.

Of course attempting to prove there was cause would also likely be an admission of guilt.


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[Diehard Ute]

If you want to believe the Zona spin machine...

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2018/2/25/17052526/sean-miller-wont-more-money-fired-with-cause-without-salary-contract-fbi-ayton-return-espn-fake


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[Diehard Ute]

And for more on Kuzma and Dawkins

https://sports.yahoo.com/meet-christian-dawkins-sloppy-reckless-prodigy-college-hoops-brink-213959726.html


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[Two Utes]

And for more on Kuzma and Dawkins

https://sports.yahoo.com/meet-christian-dawkins-sloppy-reckless-prodigy-college-hoops-brink-213959726.html


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Dawkins might be the guy who asked the coaches for 50k for Kuzma that was referenced by Krysto 6 months or so back.

[Scorcho]

pretty good read on why Sean Miller hasn't been fired yet or even placed on administrative leave

https://www.theringer.com/2018/2/27/17058026/fbi-investigation-college-basketball-recruiting-reports-sean-miller

[Two Utes]

pretty good read on why Sean Miller hasn't been fired yet or even placed on administrative leave

https://www.theringer.com/2018/2/27/17058026/fbi-investigation-college-basketball-recruiting-reports-sean-miller


Greg Hansen Az beat reporter for somebody was on yesterday with Checketts and Monson. The 100k payment was not for Ayton. It was for the same kid that Louisville ultimately got--Bowen.

And he claims that it is false that Miller gets more if he is fired for cause.

Hansen appears to know more than most. He still thinks Miller is going to get shit canned and the lawyers are just working out the details.

[concerned]

Greg Hansen Az beat reporter for somebody was on yesterday with Checketts and Monson. The 100k payment was not for Ayton. It was for the same kid that Louisville ultimately got--Bowen.

And he claims that it is false that Miller gets more if he is fired for cause.

Hansen appears to know more than most. He still thinks Miller is going to get shit canned and the lawyers are just working out the details.

That would explain why Miller did not get charged criminally--no money changed hands b/c Bowen went to Louisville. (And Ayton has been adamant that he did not receive any.)

I also read an article yesterday that even if Arizona had paid Ayton or Bowen, it is not a crime. It violates NCAA rules, but not the criminal law. I have no idea if that is true or not, but the article said the assistants got charged because they committed a bribe by taking money for themselves.

[UTEopia]

So, what are the changes that can be made to the current system to financially help the student-athlete without turning it into a total pay for play system? Here are a few that I am fine with.

One change that has occurred was providing student athletes with the true cost of education scholarship which provides them with about $500 per month.

Eliminate the one and done rule and adopt the NFL rule. This would require the NBA to change its rule back to accepting kids out of HS. I'm fine with that.

Student-athletes at a school who graduate collectively receive 50% of the revenue generated by jersey sales. I don't think they should get 100% because a lot of the purchase is based on the school identity and not the individual. I have never purchased a jersey for myself or any of my children. They have plenty of Utah logo gear.

Individual student-athletes can have endorsement deals and appearance fees. All contracts need to be in writing and approved by a schools compliance office.

[concerned]

So, what are the changes that can be made to the current system to financially help the student-athlete without turning it into a total pay for play system? Here are a few that I am fine with.

One change that has occurred was providing student athletes with the true cost of education scholarship which provides them with about $500 per month.

Eliminate the one and done rule and adopt the NFL rule. This would require the NBA to change its rule back to accepting kids out of HS. I'm fine with that.

Student-athletes at a school who graduate collectively receive 50% of the revenue generated by jersey sales. I don't think they should get 100% because a lot of the purchase is based on the school identity and not the individual. I have never purchased a jersey for myself or any of my children. They have plenty of Utah logo gear.

Individual student-athletes can have endorsement deals and appearance fees. All contracts need to be in writing and approved by a schools compliance office.

Apparently the Condi Rice task force is going to recommend some of these changes. Another possible change is allowing students to have agents while in college, which apparently some other sports allow. This would push the bribes well down the line into high school and jr high, most likely.

[Scratch]

So, what are the changes that can be made to the current system to financially help the student-athlete without turning it into a total pay for play system? Here are a few that I am fine with.

One change that has occurred was providing student athletes with the true cost of education scholarship which provides them with about $500 per month.

Eliminate the one and done rule and adopt the NFL rule. This would require the NBA to change its rule back to accepting kids out of HS. I'm fine with that.

Student-athletes at a school who graduate collectively receive 50% of the revenue generated by jersey sales. I don't think they should get 100% because a lot of the purchase is based on the school identity and not the individual. I have never purchased a jersey for myself or any of my children. They have plenty of Utah logo gear.

Individual student-athletes can have endorsement deals and appearance fees. All contracts need to be in writing and approved by a schools compliance office.

I have a hard time with anything that further exacerbated the competitive imbalance. If players are going to get paid, it should all be the same (or at least have the same cap for all players). If compensation is tied directly to merchandise sales or appearance fees, for example, that would be a HUGE benefit for the bigger schools.

[LA Ute]

Paying these athletes is not going to make the problem go away. Why would it? As long as there are shoe companies and others that want something from them and are willing to pay for it, the companies will be able to tempt to them with money, no matter how much the university is paying the athletes to cover expenses.

[sancho]

Paying these athletes is not going to make the problem go away. Why would it? As long as there are shoe companies and others that want something from them and are willing to pay for it, the companies will be able to tempt to them with money, no matter how much the university is paying the athletes to cover expenses.

The media keep trying to tell me that we can keep the NCAA from turning into a farm system by turning it into a minor league instead.

[UTEopia]

The media keep trying to tell me that we can keep the NCAA from turning into a farm system by turning it into a minor league instead.

I will have no interest if it becomes a minor league like AAA baseball and the D-League. I went to exactly 1 AAA baseball game last year and no D-League games.

[LA Ute]

I will have no interest if it becomes a minor league like AAA baseball and the D-League. I went to exactly 1 AAA baseball game last year and no D-League games.

Interesting question: If kids coming out of high School who can play in the NBA (the one and dones) start doing that, just like baseball players now do, will college basketball be ruined? I don’t really know. That might well be the case.

Is the answer to apply a rule like the NFL’s or MLB’s, requiring kids who start college to use 2-3 years of eligibility before declaring for the draft? I don’t know but I do think the one and done phenomenon has really changed college hoops, and not for the better.

[UtahsMrSports]

Interesting question: If kids coming out of high School who can play in the NBA (the one and dones) start doing that, just like baseball players now do, will college basketball be ruined? I don’t really know. That might well be the case.

Is the answer to apply a rule like the NFL’s or MLB’s, requiring kids who start college to use 2-3 years of eligibility before declaring for the draft? I don’t know but I do think the one and done phenomenon has really changed college hoops, and not for the better.

The 'one and done' rule was created by the NBA in order to protect GM's from their own stupidity under the guise of protecting the kids who would get drafted and then wash out with no college option to fall back on. The more I think about it, the more I like the ability to leave school at any time or bypass it completely. You have players who are ready or think they are ready right out of high school. Then you have guys like Carmelo who aren't quite sure but have a dynamic freshman season and decide that they are ready then. I think College basketball would be just fine if we went back to this.

[sancho]

I think College basketball would be just fine if we went back to this.

Sure. The problem is that it's not college basketball's decision to make. The NBA seems happy with their rule. I'm not sure they have any reason to change it.

[concerned]

Sure. The problem is that it's not college basketball's decision to make. The NBA seems happy with their rule. I'm not sure they have any reason to change it.

Its not the NBA's decision to make; its the players union. The NBA has tried to have a rule like the NFL's or MLB's; the union rejects it. Frankly, I dont understand why; each kid who has to attend college opens up a roster spot for a veteran. But they dont see it that way.

[LA Ute]

Its not the NBA's decision to make; its the players union. The NBA has tried to have a rule like the NFL's or MLB's; the union rejects it. Frankly, I dont understand why; each kid who has to attend college opens up a roster spot for a veteran. But they dont see it that way.

If you look at players’ association role as maximizing their members’ income, it makes sense. But I wonder about how they were ever given that power. Somebody screwed up at the negotiating table.

[Two Utes]

If you look at players’ association role as maximizing their members’ income, it makes sense. But I wonder about how they were ever given that power. Somebody screwed up at the negotiating table.

The players union is run almost entirely by black people. So to say the one and done rule is a racist policy is kind of ironic.

And, I'm loving watching all these white NBA coaches who have made millions and millions for decades and decades off the backs of black players (who play, on average, 4 years) fall all over themselves about how racist this and that and everything else is.

[concerned]

If you look at players’ association role as maximizing their members’ income, it makes sense. But I wonder about how they were ever given that power. Somebody screwed up at the negotiating table.

It maximizes the income of certain members (who get drafted early on) over their lifetime, but it doesn't maximize income of the players collectively, except maybe at the margins, since teams have a salary minimum and a salary cap. It just determines which players get paid. There may be an argument that since young players are on a rookie scale, and veterans make more than that generally, then having more veterans and fewer rookies may result in the players making more on the whole. But I get that early draftees can get to their second and third contracts earlier, and potentially have more years of maximum earnings.

[U-Ute]

Nate Robinson offered $100k to return to football by a UW booster after he moved to play basketball.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2018/02/28/nate-robinson-washington-huskies-booster-money

[Old Standing ute]

One issue that might come into play is the same thing that brought down Al Capone---failure to pay income taxes.

hard to believe someone reported the $100,000 that Sean Miller was paying to ?? as income.

[chrisrenrut]

One issue that might come into play is the same thing that brought down Al Capone---failure to pay income taxes.

hard to believe someone reported the $100,000 that Sean Miller was paying to ?? as income.

The latest scuttlebutt I heard about Miller and Ayton was that Miller's recorded conversation was not about Ayton at all, but about another recruit that ended up going to Kansas Louisville (Thanks TwoUtes). This is why Ayton's people have been denying everything, and there is no actual money to follow. The $100K didn't end up getting paid, because the recruit didn't end up coming to Arizona.

Part of the problem is that everything being reported about the taped conversation is 3rd hand, and those reporting have never heard the recordings. The information may be coming from a source that may have some self-servicing motivation in releasing the information. The theory put forth was that it was from the defense team of Dawkins or Booker.

It's still probably enough to bring down Miller from an NCAA and PR perspective, but might explain why he is not in trouble with the law.

[Two Utes]

The latest scuttlebutt I heard about Miller and Ayton was that Miller's recorded conversation was not about Ayton at all, but about another recruit that ended up going to Kansas (IIRC). This is why Ayton's people have been denying everything, and there is no actual money to follow. The $100K didn't end up getting paid, because the recruit didn't end up coming to Arizona.

Part of the problem is that everything being reported about the taped conversation is 3rd hand, and those reporting have never heard the recordings. The information may be coming from a source that may have some self-servicing motivation in releasing the information. The theory put forth was that it was from the defense team of Dawkins or Booker.

it's Bowen, the kid who ended up at Louisville.

[concerned]

it's Bowen, the kid who ended up at Louisville.

As you said the other day:

http://arizonasports.com/story/1443387/daily-star-greg-hansen-sean-miller-deandre-ayton-brian-bowen/

[Slim]

This whole thing has sucked me in. LA posted a link to Arizona's board and I've been reading it the last couple of days. They are pissed, not that they cheat but that Sean Miller is going to probably get fired over it.


Thank you. It's not good that Miller might get punished, but come on, it happens all the time to lots of coaches. It doesn't mean the end of those coaches at that institution.

I can't believe I forgot Calipari. Two Final Fours vacated and Oehler is wondering how we accept Miller if he gets punished by the NCAA.

I love their thinking. "Everyone else is doing it so what is wrong?"

[UtahsMrSports]

Arizona holding a press conference in about a half hour with Sean Miller present. Miller will have media availability.

Nobody has said anything, but that has to mean they are going to keep him around, right?

[concerned]

Arizona holding a press conference in about a half hour with Sean Miller present. Miller will have media availability.

Nobody has said anything, but that has to mean they are going to keep him around, right?

Likely, for the time being anyway. I read yesterday that this meeting was not going to address Miller's status.

[Scratch]

Who knows what they'll do, but what probably makes the most sense is to announce that Miller is not going to coach the remainder of the year and the school is going to undertake a thorough investigation.

[Two Utes]

Who knows what they'll do, but what probably makes the most sense is to announce that Miller is not going to coach the remainder of the year and the school is going to undertake a thorough investigation.

His words were very careful. Remember. he didn't get Bowen, and his statements about Ayton are true.

He didn't direct payment to Bowen because Bowen didn't go to Az, he just discussed payments. And they don't have him on a wire discussing payments to Ayton. His words were very very scripted and very very careful.

He's a scumbag.

[UtahsMrSports]

Who knows what they'll do, but what probably makes the most sense is to announce that Miller is not going to coach the remainder of the year and the school is going to undertake a thorough investigation.

Theyve doubled down on his innocence.

[Diehard Ute]

His words were very careful. Remember. he didn't get Bowen, and his statements about Ayton are true.

He didn't direct payment to Bowen because Bowen didn't go to Az, he just discussed payments. And they don't have him on a wire discussing payments to Ayton. His words were very very scripted and very very careful.

He's a scumbag.

Yup. He’s spent 5 days working with lawyers to carefully pick his words.

He even did the “I’ve never knowingly broken NCAA rules” it’s a qualifier, which people who don’t need an out never use


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[Scorcho]

Theyve doubled down on his innocence.

and ESPN is standing by their story

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22616244/sean-miller-arizona-wildcats-coach-denies-report-discussed-paying-recruit

[LA Ute]

His words were very careful. Remember. he didn't get Bowen, and his statements about Ayton are true.

He didn't direct payment to Bowen because Bowen didn't go to Az, he just discussed payments. And they don't have him on a wire discussing payments to Ayton. His words were very very scripted and very very careful.

He's a scumbag.

He should be fired just for discussing payments. Period.

[concerned]

His words were very careful. Remember. he didn't get Bowen, and his statements about Ayton are true.

He didn't direct payment to Bowen because Bowen didn't go to Az, he just discussed payments. And they don't have him on a wire discussing payments to Ayton. His words were very very scripted and very very careful.

He's a scumbag.

They must have reason to think that ESPN's description of the wiretap conversations is wrong. Maybe they have talked to a defense counsel who has heard them. If ESPN reported the conversations accurately, they are committing suicide.

And he says he never spoke to Dawkins before Ayton committed, which was in Nov. 2016. But he never ever categorically denies talking to Dawkins.

[Two Utes]

They must have reason to think that ESPN's description of the wiretap conversations is wrong. Maybe they have talked to a defense counsel who has heard them. If ESPN reported the conversations accurately, they are committing suicide.

They apparently did not report it accurately. They got the wrong person. I don't think Dawkins has anything to do with Ayton. And Miller didn't direct any payments to Bowen. And he's gonna say this Dawkins guy made this request for money and he told him later to go jump in a lake. You can see where he is going with all this. He knows what is on the tape. He knows he probably said if you are talking money about my program in any way you talk to me and he's going to say he shut down Dawkins attempts to get money, because he runs a clean program and that is why Bowen didn't end up at Arizona.

I thought you were a a lawyer?

[concerned]

They apparently did not report it accurately. They got the wrong person. I don't think Dawkins has anything to do with Ayton. And Miller didn't direct any payments to Bowen. And he's gonna say this Dawkins guy made this request for money and he told him later to go jump in a lake. You can see where he is going with all this. He knows what is on the tape. He knows he probably said if you are talking money about my program in any way you talk to me and he's going to say he shut down Dawkins attempts to get money, because he runs a clean program and that is why Bowen didn't end up at Arizona.

I thought you were a a lawyer?


What I meant was whether the ESPN report is accurate that he was discussing payments period, whether it was Ayton or Bowen. If he was discussing payments, they are committing suicide. I thought maybe they have of way of saying he was not discussing payments with Dawkins, but something else. maybe it is ambiguous enough to be open to interpretations.

[Diehard Ute]

What I meant was whether the ESPN report is accurate that he was discussing payments period, whether it was Ayton or Bowen. If he was discussing payments, they are committing suicide. I thought maybe they have of way of saying he was not discussing payments with Dawkins, but something else. maybe it is ambiguous enough to be open to interpretations.

I’m guessing Two Utes has it right. He’s going to claim he told Dawkins to talk to him in order to stop it.

But it doesn’t answer why he magically had no clue what Book was doing, or even why he took the guys call. If you’re not paying people you just don’t bother talking to him. It’s fairly obvious every major player in basketball knew what Dawkins game was.


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[Two Utes]

What I meant was whether the ESPN report is accurate that he was discussing payments period, whether it was Ayton or Bowen. If he was discussing payments, they are committing suicide. I thought maybe they have of way of saying he was not discussing payments with Dawkins, but something else. maybe it is ambiguous enough to be open to interpretations.

C'mon concerned. If he quits or is fired, he is Dave Bliss. He will never work again. He carefully scripted his words and is going to make his stand and hope that tape never comes to light. He has no other reasonable choice.

And the feds haven't arrested or charged him, so the tape is obviously somewhat ambiguous. The feds are probably waiting for Book to flip in exchange for a plea deal. And if Book flips on him, Miller will claim he's a liar who is lying for the feds in exchange for a plea deal.

This is high fucking drama.

[concerned]

C'mon concerned. If he quits or is fired, he is Dave Bliss. He will never work again. He carefully scripted his words and is going to make his stand and hope that tape never comes to light. He has no other reasonable choice.

And the feds haven't arrested or charged him, so the tape is obviously somewhat ambiguous. The feds are probably waiting for Book to flip in exchange for a plea deal. And if Book flips on him, Miller will claim he's a liar who is lying for the feds in exchange for a plea deal.

This is high fucking drama.

He may have no choice but to make that stand, but why would the University? They cant gamble that the tape never comes to light, because it will. If it is incriminating as to Miller, they are committing suicide, especially after what they said last October. They must have reason to think that the tape is not incriminating (as to an NCAA violation, not necessarily as to a crime).

And as I said the other day, I saw an article that said the reason that Miller has not been charged may be that he has not committed a crime. An NCAA violation, but not a crime, even if Ayton or Bowen got paid. The assts got charged becasue they took money for themselves. No evidence that Miller has. (At least that is what I read; cant vouch for its accuracy).

[Diehard Ute]

He may have no choice but to make that stand, but why would the University? They cant gamble that the tape never comes to light, because it will. If it is incriminating as to Miller, they are committing suicide, especially after what they said last October. They must have reason to think that the tape is not incriminating (as to an NCAA violation, not necessarily as to a crime).

And as I said the other day, I saw an article that said the reason that Miller has not been charged may be that he has not committed a crime. An NCAA violation, but not a crime, even if Ayton or Bowen got paid. The assts got charged becasue they took money for themselves. No evidence that Miller has. (At least that is what I read; cant vouch for its accuracy).

Well, Arizona’s board of regents hasn’t even met yet. Their meeting about Miller is this afternoon....sort of odd the press conference was before that isn’t it?

My guess is there is turmoil going on and people are doing things they maybe shouldn’t be doing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[concerned]

Well, Arizona’s board of regents hasn’t even met yet. Their meeting about Miller is this afternoon....sort of odd the press conference was before that isn’t it?

My guess is there is turmoil going on and people are doing things they maybe shouldn’t be doing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

so that press conference had to be designed to force the board of regents not to do anything. We will see.

[Scorcho]

as much as I dislike UA's hoops program, I wish the PAC-12 wasn't involved at all. And the fact that the Wildcats are the headliner is depressing.

[LA Ute]

A fascinating dance is going on right now.

[concerned]

well U of A is going all in.

[Two Utes]

well U of A is going all in.


Here you go from the Yahoo report:


Miller acknowledged that he had one conversation with someone soliciting money in exchange for a player attending Arizona, but did not disclose the identity of the player, the person he spoke with or the time frame for that discussion.
“I did not agree to it,” Miller said. “It never happened and that player did not come to the University of Arizona.”


I guess this whole thing is a lot easier for me as a lawyer. After finding out a little bit about this whole ordeal and then listening to his prepared statement it is very very clear what his defense is. he's been working with his lawyers for 5 days. he knows about the wire tap. he knows they have him but he also knows he didn't give Bowen any money. he can spin that conversation. And that's what he intends to do.

[concerned]

Here you go from the Yahoo report:


Miller acknowledged that he had one conversation with someone soliciting money in exchange for a player attending Arizona, but did not disclose the identity of the player, the person he spoke with or the time frame for that discussion.
“I did not agree to it,” Miller said. “It never happened and that player did not come to the University of Arizona.”


I guess this whole thing is a lot easier for me as a lawyer. After finding out a little bit about this whole ordeal and then listening to his prepared statement it is very very clear what his defense is. he's been working with his lawyers for 5 days. he knows about the wire tap. he knows they have him but he also knows he didn't give Bowen any money. he can spin that conversation. And that's what he intends to do.

that is the question--can he spin it? Did he tall Dawkins, we dont do that at Arizona, or did he suggest that it might be a possibility. If the report is accurate as to content, he said something to the effect "you deal with me regarding money. Not the assistant." That statement might be hard t spin, but again, he must have a pretty good idea of the content of the conversation on the tap.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

And now Trier has been cleared to play tonight. Apparently Arizona is still writing checks.

[LA Ute]

that is the question--can he spin it? Did he tall Dawkins, we dont do that at Arizona, or did he suggest that it might be a possibility. If the report is accurate as to content, he said something to the effect "you deal with me regarding money. Not the assistant." That statement might be hard t spin, but again, he must have a pretty good idea of the content of the conversation on the tap.

It's fascinating to me that Arizona is willing to make this bet. I can hardly believe they haven't canned him.

[DrumNFeather]

It's fascinating to me that Arizona is willing to make this bet. I can hardly believe they haven't canned him.

Schlabaugh was on ESPN last night saying that he stood by his story/source...AND that the tape is currently under an FBI seal. So, essential what Arizona is saying is "lets hear the tape," knowing that at a minimum the tape probably isn't coming out in the next month, so Miller coaches, Ayton plays, and now Trier too and they get to make their run. "Us against the world" and all that.

[LA Ute]

Here’s an interesting post by the guy who writes the PacHoops blog. He’s a devoted Arizona fan. Good insights here about how those people see the world.

http://pachoops.com/2018/03/the-unknown/

[Scorcho]

sure sounds like Sean Miller is looking for the 3:10 to Yuma


Craig Meyer‏Verified account @CraigMeyerPG (https://twitter.com/CraigMeyerPG)FollowFollow
@CraigMeyerPG

More




Sean Miller and Pitt AD Heather Lyke have discussed the Panthers' vacant head coaching position

https://twitter.com/CraigMeyerPG/status/976504743509086208

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Shocking development.

976553571843002374

[LA Ute]

Shocking development.

976553571843002374

Doesn’t he realize it will be much harder to get his degree while in the NBA?

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Doesn’t he realize it will be much harder to get his degree while in the NBA?

Much easier to pay back "school loans" though.

[chrisrenrut]

Not directly related to the FBI actions, but somewhat related with the lifetime ban recommendation for cheating coaches.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46307699&nid=157&title=apnewsbreak-hoops-panel-says-ban-cheats-end-1-and-done

I haven't had time to dive into the whole thing yet, but seems like an honest and measured approach to improving and cleaning up college basketball.

[U-Ute]

Not directly related to the FBI actions, but somewhat related with the lifetime ban recommendation for cheating coaches.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46307699&nid=157&title=apnewsbreak-hoops-panel-says-ban-cheats-end-1-and-done

I haven't had time to dive into the whole thing yet, but seems like an honest and measured approach to improving and cleaning up college basketball.

"Cheating Coaches" is going to be difficult to define. But I guess if you can prove that a coach knew a booster was dropping bags of money on a player, that coach should get booted for life. The problem is going to be proving it.

[SoCalPat]

"Cheating Coaches" is going to be difficult to define. But I guess if you can prove that a coach knew a booster was dropping bags of money on a player, that coach should get booted for life. The problem is going to be proving it.

When you've got apparel companies like Adidas, who needs boosters?

[Scorcho]

much needed changes for college basketball

https://twitter.com/Andy_Staples/status/1027224577364115457

[Mormon Red Death]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24823682/why-ncaa-hoops-scandal-likely-spread-trial-starts

[concerned]

this could be interesting:

During opening statement this morning, Jim Gattto's atty promised evidence would show Oregon offered "an atronomical amount of money" to recruit Brian Bowen to play for the Ducks. The $100,000 deal to attend Louisville was to "level the playing field."

[Old Standing ute]

I had not heard about Ducks.
Altman may go down too?

[LA Ute]

From Jon Wilner’s PAC-12 Hotline today:

*****

We're just getting started ...

The Pac-12 was mentioned prominently Tuesday in the federal corruption trial against two former Adidas executives and a would-be agent.

The first whopper: Arizona planned to offer $150,000 for recruit Nassir Little.
The second whopper: Oregon was ready to offer an “astronomical amount” to land prospect Brian Bowen.

And that’s just what was presented by attorneys in the opening statements. We haven’t gotten to the witnesses and the evidence, much less the other trials resulting from the FBI's sting -- those involving former assistant coaches at Arizona and USC.

It could be a very interesting few weeks for the Pac-12 in the Daniel Patrick Moynihan federal courthouse in Manhattan.

Reaction to the news:

• That Oregon is involved, to one degree or another, should come as little surprise -- not because of presumed guilt but because of its close association with Nike and its rivalry with Adidas.

There was no way Three Stripes, or former Three Stripes employees, wouldn’t somehow attempt to implicate the Swoosh.

Burn it all down, right?

That is, by the way, the strategy: The attorneys for the former Adidas executives aren’t denying that their clients committed NCAA violations. They’re instead arguing that NCAA violations aren’t federal crimes.

It’s a wise strategy, but one that could result in the unveiling of evidence against numerous coaches and programs not previously implicated in the FBI case.

Speaking of evidence …

• As part of its efforts to clean up the game and expose cheaters, the NCAA made a crucial policy change this summer: Any evidence or statements under oath in the corruption trial can be used by enforcement staff when it investigates rules violations.

If the father of Brian Bowen, for example, were to take the stand in New York and explain under oath that School X offered $100,000 for his son’s services, his testimony would be treated as if he said it directly to the NCAA.

• Oh, and yes: The father of Brian Bowen is expected to take the stand and has been granted immunity.
He could very well offer evidence that implicates a handful of programs, perhaps even a few in the Pac-12.

If your school has recruited a Lottery Pick-level talent in the past few years, be worried. Be very worried.

• Pac-12 basketball media day is next week. Sean Miller and Dana Altman are expected to attend.

If the opening statements in New York are any indication of what’s to come, the conference’s showcase preseason event could be swallowed whole by the corruption case, for the second consecutive year. — Jon Wilner.

*****

BTW, attorney opening statements are not evidence, just argument. Juries can’t rely on them.

[Applejack]

From Jon Wilner’s PAC-12 Hotline today:

*****

We're just getting started ...

The Pac-12 was mentioned prominently Tuesday in the federal corruption trial against two former Adidas executives and a would-be agent.

The first whopper: Arizona planned to offer $150,000 for recruit Nassir Little.
The second whopper: Oregon was ready to offer an “astronomical amount” to land prospect Brian Bowen.

And that’s just what was presented by attorneys in the opening statements. We haven’t gotten to the witnesses and the evidence, much less the other trials resulting from the FBI's sting -- those involving former assistant coaches at Arizona and USC.

It could be a very interesting few weeks for the Pac-12 in the Daniel Patrick Moynihan federal courthouse in Manhattan.

Reaction to the news:

• That Oregon is involved, to one degree or another, should come as little surprise -- not because of presumed guilt but because of its close association with Nike and its rivalry with Adidas.

There was no way Three Stripes, or former Three Stripes employees, wouldn’t somehow attempt to implicate the Swoosh.

Burn it all down, right?

That is, by the way, the strategy: The attorneys for the former Adidas executives aren’t denying that their clients committed NCAA violations. They’re instead arguing that NCAA violations aren’t federal crimes.

It’s a wise strategy, but one that could result in the unveiling of evidence against numerous coaches and programs not previously implicated in the FBI case.

Speaking of evidence …

• As part of its efforts to clean up the game and expose cheaters, the NCAA made a crucial policy change this summer: Any evidence or statements under oath in the corruption trial can be used by enforcement staff when it investigates rules violations.

If the father of Brian Bowen, for example, were to take the stand in New York and explain under oath that School X offered $100,000 for his son’s services, his testimony would be treated as if he said it directly to the NCAA.

• Oh, and yes: The father of Brian Bowen is expected to take the stand and has been granted immunity.
He could very well offer evidence that implicates a handful of programs, perhaps even a few in the Pac-12.

If your school has recruited a Lottery Pick-level talent in the past few years, be worried. Be very worried.

• Pac-12 basketball media day is next week. Sean Miller and Dana Altman are expected to attend.

If the opening statements in New York are any indication of what’s to come, the conference’s showcase preseason event could be swallowed whole by the corruption case, for the second consecutive year. — Jon Wilner.

*****

BTW, attorney opening statements are not evidence, just argument. Juries can’t rely on them.

We're fine then, right? Does Lauri Markanen count?

[Scorcho]

We're fine then, right? Does Lauri Markanen count?

don't forget we went after and landed the Jonas Longvad after Boylen promised him warmer winters and a kettle of fish.

[LA Ute]

We're fine then, right? Does Lauri Markanen count?

Depends on how much we offered him, I guess.

[Old Standing ute]

Testimony today was that Kuzma’s”associates” received money to influence who he would pick as his agent.


I also heard on the street that Utes offered PVD free trax tickets for life.

[SoCalPat]

don't forget we went after and landed the Jonas Longvad after Boylen promised him warmer winters and a kettle of fish.

I thought Jonas was a Giacoletti recruit?

[UBlender]

I thought Jonas was a Giacoletti recruit?

You're both wrong. Jonas was a Majerus recruit. His freshman season was the year that Majerus left, then played two years for Giac.

[Old Standing ute]

I just read about the guilty verdicts in the first trial---I had not realized it was a fraud case---it is laughable that Louisville & Kansas were defrauded by the Adidas payments so Bowen & De Sousa would get scholarships. The argument the jury bought was that these schools would not have given them scholarships if they knew about the payments.
they bought that Pitino & Bill Self knew nothing about the payments. Really>?!

Funny how the same schools (like AZ etc) kept getting defrauded every year. Poor Sean Miller--he is such an innocent victim.

Too bad they didn't pull that same fraud on the Utes too.

[LA Ute]

I just read about the guilty verdicts in the first trial---I had not realized it was a fraud case---it is laughable that Louisville & Kansas were defrauded by the Adidas payments so Bowen & De Sousa would get scholarships. The argument the jury bought was that these schools would not have given them scholarships if they knew about the payments.
they bought that Pitino & Bill Self knew nothing about the payments. Really>?!

Funny how the same schools (like AZ etc) kept getting defrauded every year. Poor Sean Miller--he is such an innocent victim.

Too bad they didn't pull that same fraud on the Utes too.

Yeah. How do we arrange to be defrauded?

[LA Ute]

Wilner sees this as a big deal:

Feds give NCAA go-ahead to begin investigating schools in college hoops scandal

https://sports.yahoo.com/feds-give-ncaa-go-ahead-begin-investigating-certain-schools-tied-college-hoops-scandal-030502043.html?utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fsports.yahoo.com%2ffeds-give-ncaa-go-ahead-begin-investigating-certain-schools-tied-college-hoops-scandal-030502043.html&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-pac-12-hotline-nl

Wilner:


While not mentioned as prominently as Kansas, for example, both Arizona and Oregon were sucked into the recently-completely case, either during the trial itself or in a post-trial report by ESPN.

Does this mean the Ducks and Wildcats soon will have visitors from the NCAA enforcement staff? No way to know.

Does it mean dark, low-lying clouds will linger over the programs for the next five months? Quite possibly.

(Don't forget: The trials of former Arizona assistant Book Richardson and former USC assistant Tony Bland are scheduled for 2019.)

Could other programs become ensnared? Absolutely.

On Tuesday, in fact, the Los Angeles Times reported a firm connection (via phone records) between former assistant David Grace and convicted would-be agent Christian Dawkins. (Grace is now on the Cal staff.)

The feeling here: It's going to get worse for the conference before it gets better.

[LA Ute]

Former USC Coach Pleads Guilty in Basketball Corruption Case
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-02/ex-usc-coach-to-plead-guilty-in-ncaa-basketball-corruption-case?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business

I wonder if he made a deal to testify against anyone else? The article is silent about that.

[LA Ute]

Jon Wilner today:

BB corruption case, updated

Broadly speaking, Arizona, USC and the Pac-12 were facing three hurdles in the FBI corruption scandal and (pending) NCAA investigation.

The first has been cleared.

Fomer Arizona assistant Book Richardson entered a guilty plea Tuesday on one count of felony bribery, following the path taken by ex-USC assistant Tony Bland.

Both are scheduled for sentencing in the spring but neither reportedly will have to cooperate with authorities. They won't, in other words, be required to divulge information that could incriminate others.

But there are two obstacles remaining before the Wildcats and Trojans escape the scandal:

• The first is another trial.

Christian Dawkins, the low-rent, would-be agent at the center of the FBI sting, is scheduled to face federal authorities in the courtroom in April.

What evidence surfaces is anyone's guess, but the college basketball world will be closely monitoring the events.

"Our level of fight is not going to change because of what other people do," Dawkins' attorney told ESPN in the aftermath of Richardson's plea deal.

• The second hurdle is an NCAA investigation.

The governing body's enforcement staff is free to use evidence that was collected by the FBI or surfaced during two corruption trials in the fall.

One number -- the number 1 -- should concern Arizona coach Sean Miller and USC's Andy Enfield.

NCAA Bylaw 11.1.1.1, better known as "Head Coach Responsibility," states:
"An institution's head coach is presumed to be responsible for the actions of all institutional staff members who report, directly or indirectly, to the head coach. An institution's head coach shall promote an atmosphere of compliance within his or her program and shall monitor the activities of all institutional staff members involved with the program who report, directly or indirectly, to the coach."

Miller, in particular, might have difficulty rebutting charges by the NCAA because he and Richardson have coached together for more than a decade. The NCAA could determine it's reasonable to hold Miller accountable for the actions of someone he knows so well.

Put another way: Plausible deniability won't cut it.

The sanctions for a violation of Bylaw 11.1.1.1 are severe and include show-cause penalties and lengthy suspensions, in addition to havoc wreaked on reputations.

Whether the situation approaches or reaches that stage with Miller and Enfield, only time ... and it could be many more months ... will tell. -- Jon Wilner

[Scorcho]

Hooplor, god of roundball, please oh please subpoena Sean Miller


Dawkins’ lawyer, Steve Haney, told Yahoo Sports that his client has little desire to follow the path of the three assistant coaches, including Richardson, who’ve recently entered a plea deal. “We have no intention of pleading,” Haney told Yahoo Sports. “And we believe, factually, the indictment is incorrect and we intend to prove it at trial.”


There’s a strong expectation that Miller will be subpoenaed to appear at the trial, potentially within the next month. He could be one of many coaches, as all the coaches who were captured on wiretap with Dawkins are at risk of a subpoena. Part of the defense’s theory is expected to be based on showing Dawkins wasn’t bribing coaches. “My obligation here is to defend my client,” Haney said in a phone interview, “not protect coaches who violated NCAA rules.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-investigation-underway-arizonas-sean-miller-faces-complicated-future-234415126.html

[LA Ute]

Here's a look back at an earlier time and a college basketball coach who stood for some important things:

Parole for drug lord Rayful Edmond? Ask for John Thompson’s permission
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/parole-for-drug-lord-rayful-edmond-ask-for-john-thompsons-permission

[Solon]

Is a subpoena a big deal?

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-arizonas-sean-miller-lsus-will-wade-notified-will-subpoenaed-federal-hoops-corruption-trial-180149786.html

In a world where assistant coaches are convicted of federal bribery charges but the head coaches remain unaffected, I'm not sure how significant a subpoena is.

[LA Ute]

Is a subpoena a big deal?

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-arizonas-sean-miller-lsus-will-wade-notified-will-subpoenaed-federal-hoops-corruption-trial-180149786.html

In a world where assistant coaches are convicted of federal bribery charges but the head coaches remain unaffected, I'm not sure how significant a subpoena is.

Depends on what it asks for and how Miller responds. This ain't over by a long shot.

[Old Standing ute]

In the article Miller says: “I never paid a recruit & I never will.” DUH—his assistant coaches always paid, so that statement is true.

3 of his assistants are dirty per the article & he isn’t because he knew nothing about it.?! Even my mother (RIP), who loved AZ basketball more than anything else (& I put myself in that mix) would have a hard time swallowing that nonsense.

[LA Ute]

In the article Miller says: “I never paid a recruit & I never will.” DUH—his assistant coaches always paid, so that statement is true.

Fun with words.

[LA Ute]

ESPN:

What to watch as NCAA hoops scandal goes back to the courtroom

https://es.pn/2VS41Z8

[Old Standing ute]

ESPN:

What to watch as NCAA hoops scandal goes back to the courtroom

https://es.pn/2VS41Z8

According to Michael Sokolove who wrote a book on Rick Pitino, AZ was careful about covering their payments. They funneled them through AAU coaches to parents.

[LA Ute]

Sean Miller isn't out of the woods yet. From Wilner's e-mail newsletter today:



What of the wiretap?

The Friday newsletter opened with the latest developments from New York City, where U.S. District Court Judge Edgardo Ramos had just ruled that Arizona coach Sean Miller wouldn't have to take the stand in the latest college basketball corruption trial.

That remains the case this week as the trial gets underway.

We also noted that the wiretapped conversation reportedly between Miller and would-be agent Christian Dawkins would not be played in the courtroom.

That may not be the case, however.

The initial reaction -- no public reveal of the wiretap -- was based on statements by no less an authority than a spokesperson for federal prosecutors. But it seems there is some confusion about the contents of the pre-trial motion.

The defense attorney, Steven Haney, told Yahoo later on Friday that the wiretap wasn't part of the motion, which seems to indicate it wasn't covered by Ramos' ruling and is admissible, after all.

Haney also told Yahoo: "There’s direct evidence that Sean Miller was paying players. I said that today, on the record, in court.”

The full exchange between Haney and Ramos was reported by the Daily Star and based on a transcript of the hearing.

Yahoo gauged the reaction across the sport to Miller and LSU coach Will Wade not having taking the stand: “'If these guys get away with it,'” one veteran head coach said, “'I should have cheated my whole career.'”

For a smart overview of the trial, consider this article by Sports Illustrated legal expert Michael McCann.

The next few days could be quite interesting, for the Wildcats and the Pac-12. -- Jon Wilner.

[sancho]

1123241747356770304

[LA Ute]

1123241747356770304

Assuming this is true, I wonder if Kuzma ever saw any of that money?

[LA Ute]

FBI wiretap: Miller 'fronted' deal for Ayton (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-basketball-ncaa-ari-corruption-trial/fbi-wiretap-miller-fronted-deal-for-ayton-idUSKCN1S52AZ)

Teaser:

"Arizona basketball coach Sean Miller “fronted” the deal to get Deandre Ayton to the school, agent runner Christian Dawkins said on an FBI wiretap investigating corruption in college basketball...."

[concerned]

How can UA continue to have Miller as the face of its program and university. If nothing else the lack of institutional control is astonishing. And there has to be a lot more to it than that.

[sancho]

How can UA continue to have Miller as the face of its program and university. If nothing else the lack of institutional control is astonishing. And there has to be a lot more to it than that.

I think if we had him, we'd be trying to hold onto him too. The allure of winning is too strong. I think something happens to a fanbase where the moraliy of the base as a whole is less than the average morality of an individual within the base. Maybe. Just making it up as I go here.

[Applejack]

How can UA continue to have Miller as the face of its program and university. If nothing else the lack of institutional control is astonishing. And there has to be a lot more to it than that.

He's on the hot seat. Not for the bribes, necessarily; but because of the way UofA stunk it up this year.

[snafu]

Why would the NCAA want to punish the programs that are bringing in the bucks? The blue bloods have nothing to fear when it comes to the NCAA.

[SeattleUte]

I think if we had him, we'd be trying to hold onto him too. The allure of winning is too strong. I think something happens to a fanbase where the moraliy of the base as a whole is less than the average morality of an individual within the base. Maybe. Just making it up as I go here.

Speak for yourself.

[sancho]

Speak for yourself.

Okay. I'm just looking around. Every time a good coach gets in trouble, the fan base has a hard time coming to grips with the fact that he should be let go. I'm just saying that I'm not sure the Utah fan base would act differently. Maybe we would. We haven't been tested in that way.

[Irving Washington]

Okay. I'm just looking around. Every time a good coach gets in trouble, the fan base has a hard time coming to grips with the fact that he should be let go. I'm just saying that I'm not sure the Utah fan base would act differently. Maybe we would. We haven't been tested in that way.
Some would say that's what happened with Majerus.

[SeattleUte]

Some would say that's what happened with Majerus.

Ha! wtf are you talking about? First, Majerus was let go. And his "crimes" were buying cheeseburgers for players and telling Lance Allred he was a disgrace to his disability.

[LA Ute]

Ha! wtf are you talking about? First, Majerus was let go. And his "crimes" were buying cheeseburgers for players and telling Lance Allred he was a disgrace to his disability.

He resigned rather than participate in an internal investigation of his treatment of Allred. That was a process Allred set in motion and that no one could stop. He wasn’t having it. I loved Big Rick, warts and all, and wish he had stayed. When he was announced as the new USC coach I was a USC basketball fan for 3-4 days until he changed his mind.