Pitching it on the Palouse - Utah @ WSU

[DrumNFeather]

The bye week is in the rear view mirror and thus begins Utah's run of 8 straight league games before the rivalry game in November. This is the second consecutive game against a team from Washington, and a team that went toe to toe against USC, but ultimately lost. Two losses in league play for either team will put them well behind the 8 ball, but nothing is decided in Week 4, no matter what folks might tell you.

At QB, you have the #3 player in the nation in passing yards going up against #77 for Utah.

Zach Moss is currently #65 in rushing yards in NCAA, at 283, averaging 6.3 yards per carry with 3 TDs. For some context, the guy just ahead of him has 82 carries...imagine if Moss had 82 carries at this point in the season...now granted that player has played 4 games, but you're talking about an average of 20 carries per game. It's evident at least in part what needs to be done.

At WR, we all know the drill, Covey is leading the way for us, but he also walked around with ice all over him after last week's game, so we've got to find a way to 1) Protect him better and 2) Have some other guys step up. Only two of our WRs have double digit catches this season (Covey: 23, Nacua 10), and nobody has over 100 yards besides Covey, who has 262. That's...not great.

Our defense will certainly have a challenge with the Air raid offense, but we get Blair back for the game and Fotu will return in the second half.

So, we know we need to get Moss the ball more, but defenses are going to key on him and make Huntley beat them...so what else can we do to stop the 3 game losing streak to Wazzu?

[sancho]

I watched the USC/WSU game, and USC did a lot of their damage through big pass plays. Not sure that can work for us, but we should at least try it out a few times per half.

[concerned]

I watched the USC/WSU game, and USC did a lot of their damage through big pass plays. Not sure that can work for us, but we should at least try it out a few times per half.


All we need is a qb who can throw like Daniels and receivers who can go up and get the ball or position the defender into pass interference.

[sancho]

All we need is a qb who can throw like Daniels and receivers who can go up and get the ball or position the defender into pass interference.

Yeah, I'm saying I'll take the poor man's version of what USC did downfield. Just a few 15+ yard completions.

[UTEopia]

I looked at the box score from the Wazzu game last year. We had 7 freaking turnovers.

[Nice Marmot]

I watched the USC/WSU game, and USC did a lot of their damage through big pass plays. Not sure that can work for us, but we should at least try it out a few times per half.

Sadly the Utes are well below average at doing that.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

I need SoCalPat to tell me what the bettors know. The line for this game has moved from WSU -2 to Utah -1. Maybe that Gustin hit left a mark on Menshew’s brain. Maybe Whit is getting too much credit for his “coming off a bye” rep. Who knows.


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[Applejack]

I need SoCalPat to tell me what the bettors know. The line for this game has moved from WSU -2 to Utah -1. Maybe that Gustin hit left a mark on Menshew’s brain. Maybe Whit is getting too much credit for his “coming off a bye” rep. Who knows.


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Utah by 1? On the road? With our offense? Seems like there must be something going on up there...

[SoCalPat]

I need SoCalPat to tell me what the bettors know. The line for this game has moved from WSU -2 to Utah -1. Maybe that Gustin hit left a mark on Menshew’s brain. Maybe Whit is getting too much credit for his “coming off a bye” rep. Who knows.


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Wish I knew. Haven't chatted at all about this game. But if I'm putting on my handicapping hat, I'm looking at Utah's defense as the difference maker in this game, and that Wazzu nearly beating USC isn't that impressive when you consider USC is 85th in total defense and 89th in rush defense. Also, the money (51 percent on Utah) and ticket count (60 percent Wazzu) suggests a good balance. My guess is someone who the books respect mightily has placed a huge wager on Utah.

[sancho]

9 runs, 1 pass. 7-0.

[sancho]

9 runs, 1 pass. 7-0.

16 runs, 2 passes. 14-7.

It's noticeable that WSU's defense is not UW's defense.

[sancho]

I breathe a sigh of relief every time WSU tries to run the ball. They are just torching our defense. Converted two 3rd and longs on that drive too.

[Sullyute]

Minshew is great.

[sancho]

Minshew is great.

All Leach QBs are the same, and they all wreck us.

[LA Ute]

All Leach QBs are the same, and they all wreck us.

They run Leach’s system. He doesn’t care that we know what he is going to do, he just brings it.

[LA Ute]

Nice to see WSU punting. Go Utes!

[sancho]

WSU with 37 pass attempts in the first half. Ugh.

[sancho]

This game, like all Utah games, will come down to the defense.

[sancho]

Why throw on 1st there? Why? Forced us to throw on 2nd and 3rd as well.

[Sullyute]

Offense is sputtering at the wrong time. Why do we go away from moss in the second half of every game?

[sancho]

Offense is sputtering at the wrong time. Why do we go away from moss in the second half of every game?

It's like we learned nothing from the first half. Or we just insist on always putting everything on the D.

[Sullyute]

Why is Whitt never in any of those PAC 12 advertisements? Did he go to the bathroom when they were filing them at media days?

[sancho]

That ref just really wanted that to be a block in the back. Saw it almost happen, and he couldn't help himself.

[chrisrenrut]

That was a pretty weak hold call for such a critical point in the game.

[sancho]

That was a pretty weak hold call for such a critical point in the game.

Holding is so frustrating. Crap happens all game long, and then that is the one that gets called.

[LA Ute]

Well, I’m not angry and didn’t see most of the game (had to listen on an airplane flight). I do think it’s fair to be very unhappy about this team’s lack of
poise in crunch time. Which assistant coach do we blame that on?

[Sullyute]

Holding is so frustrating. Crap happens all game long, and then that is the one that gets called.

Agreed. Pretty tick-tacky calls for an otherwise great game.

[sancho]

Well, I’m not angry and didn’t see
most of the game (had to listen on an airplane flight). I do think it’s fair to be very unhappy about this team’s lack of
poise in crunch time. Which assistant coach do we blame that on?

You better just blame it on the head coach. He's the common denominator.

We converted on 4th and 5 and on 4th and 10. That was actually really impressive and showed a good deal of poise. But 4th and 20 was asking too much.

The block in the back and the hold were both pretty bad. But giving up that TD was the worst single play by anyone this season. Man, was that bad.

I wish we'd done a little more Moss and Shyne on a few of those 3rd quarter drives.

[sancho]

giving up that TD was the worst single play by anyone this season

This is true, but the loss is still on the offense. We had 5 chances to make it a 2 score game, and we blew it.

[Solon]

This is true, but the loss is still on the offense. We had 5 chances to make it a 2 score game, and we blew it.

Ugh.
This is a difficult team to like.

[LA Ute]

Satire. Pretty well done. Laughter is the best medicine.

Utah coaching staff already working on game plan for how they’ll disappoint Ute fans next

https://thedailyfrick.com/utah-coaching-staff-already-working-on-game-plan-for-how-theyll-disappoint-ute-fans-next/

[Rocker Ute]

There was a graph on TV that said 10 of 13 of Utah's losses were by 8 points or less. We joked it should have been titled, "Why it is no fun being a Utah fan."


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[UTEopia]

Can I be disappointed and encouraged at the same time? I know some Utah fans believe that the Utes have better talent than Wazzu and should, therefore, win that game going away. I am not one of them. Do we have equivalent talent? Sure. When teams are pretty equally matched, it will always come down to a few plays.

Wazzu scored on 2 long TD passes.
Utah picked Wazzu in the redzone.
Huntley made a nice long run for a TD and completed a long pass to Dixon.
Huntley missed on a long pass to Nacua.
Simpkins missed a wide open TD that resulted in a FG instead of a TD.
Block in the back on the Covey punt return.
Penalties on two successful 4th down plays that ended any chance of a winning TD.

We had opportunities to win but did not. That's disappointing. Every phase had the opportunity to win the game but did not. That's disappointing. The players played hard and had the opportunity to win. That's encouraging.

[concerned]

I am more disappointed than encouraged.
We have a returning OC, qb, all-conference rb and backup, and o-line.

The reason I am disappointed is we just don't have a serviceable passing attack yet again. I am convinced that we won't as long as Huntley is the qb. He isn't accurate enough and not good enough at reading the field to make defenses pay when they cheat on the run and the RPO, and spy Huntley. And our receivers aren't good enough to make a great play. They don't really get open and they cant take the ball away from the defender.


I will reiterate what I said a couple of weeks ago: KW will give TT another year, because he isn't going to hire yet another coordinator after this year. That would be admitting a huge mistake in hiring TT. Maybe Harding will have a greater role. If the offense isn't corrected by next year, KW will retire. Next year is a very favorable schedule and if we cant win then we never will. (I said the same thing two years ago. The stars were aligned then and we couldn't take advantage.)


Harlan is going to want to put his stamp on the program. He will hire an offensive coach who can develop an offensive identity that includes a competent passing attack. I don't think a new AD will let this continue year after year.

My crystal ball $.02.

[LA Ute]

I am more disappointed than encouraged.
We have a returning OC, qb, all-conference rb and backup, and o-line.

The reason I am disappointed is we just don't have a serviceable passing attack yet again. I am convinced that we won't as long as Huntley is the qb. He isn't accurate enough and not good enough at reading the field to make defenses pay when they cheat on the run and the RPO, and spy Huntley. And our receivers aren't good enough to make a great play. They don't really get open and they cant take the ball away from the defender.


I will reiterate what I said a couple of weeks ago: KW will give TT another year, because he isn't going to hire yet another coordinator after this year. That would be admitting a huge mistake in hiring TT. Maybe Harding will have a greater role. If the offense isn't corrected by next year, KW will retire. Next year is a very favorable schedule and if we cant win then we never will. (I said the same thing two years ago. The stars were aligned then and we couldn't take advantage.)


Harlan is going to want to put his stamp on the program. He will hire an offensive coach who can develop an offensive identity that includes a competent passing attack. I don't think a new AD will let this continue year after year.

My crystal ball $.02.

Here's an interesting contrast in a coach's response to a tough loss:

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=24840275

[Applejack]

Here's an interesting contrast in a coach's response to a tough loss:

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=24840275

We get it: you don't like Kyle.

[UTEopia]

Here's an interesting contrast in a coach's response to a tough loss:

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=24840275

I like his response. I also liked the clips of what Kyle said publicly. If you don't believe that Kyle has the same demeanor and intensity of the Penn State coach when talking with his players and coaches, I can tell you that you are wrong.

[concerned]

Diehard Ute--you have a private message that is time sensitive

[LA Ute]

We get it: you don't like Kyle.

I like him a lot. Don’t have much faith in him as a head coach.

[Applejack]

I am more disappointed than encouraged.
We have a returning OC, qb, all-conference rb and backup, and o-line.

The reason I am disappointed is we just don't have a serviceable passing attack yet again. I am convinced that we won't as long as Huntley is the qb. He isn't accurate enough and not good enough at reading the field to make defenses pay when they cheat on the run and the RPO, and spy Huntley. And our receivers aren't good enough to make a great play. They don't really get open and they cant take the ball away from the defender.


I will reiterate what I said a couple of weeks ago: KW will give TT another year, because he isn't going to hire yet another coordinator after this year. That would be admitting a huge mistake in hiring TT. Maybe Harding will have a greater role. If the offense isn't corrected by next year, KW will retire. Next year is a very favorable schedule and if we cant win then we never will. (I said the same thing two years ago. The stars were aligned then and we couldn't take advantage.)


Harlan is going to want to put his stamp on the program. He will hire an offensive coach who can develop an offensive identity that includes a competent passing attack. I don't think a new AD will let this continue year after year.

My crystal ball $.02.

That's an interesting take. I've never been sold on Troy Taylor. I don't know if the thought of keeping him around for an extra year just to appease the peanut gallery sits well with me. But I do recognize that the turn-over at the position has not been great.

I was struck in this game by Huntley's inability to make the correct read in the RPO/option game. He was really bad when the read-option was called. There was one late game situation (it was like 3rd and 2) and everyone was keyed on Moss and it was obvious that Huntley had a huge running lane if he had taken it, but instead he handed to Moss for no gain. We are such a bad short yardage team; we work hard to get third a short, but then we have little ability to do something with 3rd and short. So frustrating.

[SeattleUte]

Whether in football or basketball, LAUte has not liked (as a coach) every coach we’ve ever had except Urban, who only stayed for two years.

This is LAUte:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY

[Applejack]

I like him a lot. Don’t have much faith in him as a head coach.

Haha. Who do you have faith in as a head coach? Franklin from Penn State (terrible coach from everything I've heard)? Scott Frost? Chip Kelly? Those guys really know offensive football!!!

It's a fickle business, coaching teenagers for a living. The majority of dispassionate commentators typically have great things to say about the job that Kyle has done. But by all means continue to press for Utah football's firing of the guy who guided us to the national championship in 2008 (the ncaa's words, not mine).

[LA Ute]

Whether in football or basketball, LAUte has not liked (as a coach) every coach we’ve ever had except Urban, who only stayed for two years.

You’re too young to have memory loss. Stop, before you embarrass yourself further! I say this with love in my heart.

[LA Ute]

Haha. Who do you have faith in as a head coach? Franklin from Penn State (terrible coach from everything I've heard)? Scott Frost? Chip Kelly? Those guys really know offensive football!!!

It's a fickle business, coaching teenagers for a living. The majority of dispassionate commentators typically have great things to say about the job that Kyle has done. But by all means continue to press for Utah football's firing of the guy who guided us to the national championship in 2008 (the ncaa's words, not mine).

Just an opinion, and not nearly such a minority view as you seem to think.

Unlike you and SU, I don’t think we need to be not just content, but very happy with annual 7 or 8-win seasons and wins in marginal bowl games, and an annually embarrassing offensive performance at the bottom of our conference, along with regular head-scratcher losses in big games. If you guys like that, fine. I’d rather have something more. I’m sorry it upsets you both so much that people like me have a different view.

I hope Kyle stays until he retires, and I won’t be sad if that day comes sooner rather than later.

[sancho]

Just an opinion, and not nearly such a minority view as you seem to think.


This is the scary thing. Group think is strong, especially when it's bad.

We just lost to WSU. Most people think they got incredibly lucky to land Mike Leach. Mike Leach! That's the best Wazzu will ever do. He'll never win anything there. He might finish ranked a few times. And when he leaves, Wazzu will go right back to the bottom of their division. Arizona and Arizona State - locked forever in 3-5 year cycles of firing coaches. It's been, what, 40 years for those two programs? They have, what, one Jake Plummer between their combined history?

I will take what Utah is over what Utah should be. There's nothing about our geography or reputation or recruiting base that would make anyone think we should be anything more than Wazzu or Arizona. The fact that we have done much more than either of those schools - including a national championship - is a fact I would like fewer people to discard.

Enjoy things now because the post-Whittingham Utes are going to test our fanbase to its limits. This is why stadium expansion is so dicey. We won't be filling those seats when we are the Oregon State of the south division.

[LA Ute]

Enjoy things now because the post-Whittingham Utes are going to test our fanbase to its limits. This is why stadium expansion is so dicey. We won't be filling those seats when we are the Oregon State of the south division.

OK.

[LA Ute]

Kragthorpe, today:


So now what happens? ESPN’s Football Power Index projects 6.7 wins for Utah (2-2), good enough for bowl eligibility. The Utes remain contenders for the South title — once they stop facing the North, anyway. Saturday’s game at No. 14 Stanford is their third straight crossover game to begin the conference schedule. An 0-3 start would be tough to overcome, although not impossible in the landscape of the South.

The bigger picture of the program is more discouraging. The Utes have lost eight of their past 10 conference games. Going back to October 2016, when they were ranked No. 17 and targeting a Rose Bowl bid, they’re 4-11 in Pac-12 play. That’s not a good trend for Whittingham, now in his 14th season.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2018/09/30/utes-review-this-season/

[Solon]

Kragthorpe, today:

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2018/09/30/utes-review-this-season/

I love KW. He's been the architect of some magical Utah moments.
But to suggest that Utah could never do any better is backward-looking.

There aren't very many P-5 head-coaching jobs out there and only a handful are open in any given year.
Thousands of coaches hope to land one of those P-5 head-coaching jobs someday.

The idea that Salt Lake City has all of these intrinsic disadvantages that can't be overcome is a non-starter too.
SLC is a much nicer place to live than Tuscaloosca by almost any metric out there.
Los Angeles California has every advantage you could imagine, but geography isn't necessarily destiny in College Football (I"m thinking UCLA here).

Kyle has a lot of leash, and I hope he ends his coaching career as a Ute, and on his terms.
But, when he does hang 'em up, the Utes will have a chance to land top-shelf coaching - if the paycheck is right - and to create a top-shelf program.
They will also have the chance to botch it horribly too.

[Old Standing ute]

Utes are a middle of the conference team. We don’t have the image of USC or Oregon & will never have a coach as good as Chris Petersen. We just can’t get good enough athletes—only 1 5 star to my memory whereas others can load up on that level.
So we plug along at 8-9 wins & a middle level bowl win.

We can’t land another Urban—unless we get incredibly lucky twice.

I hope Tuttle gets a chance during the run of home games, so we can dream he is the answer. LOL.

the good news is basketball season is approaching & we actually have decent young talent.

[LA Ute]

the good news is basketball season is approaching & we actually have decent young talent.

True. It’ll be fun to watch them.

BTW, Kyle’s not going anywhere until after 2021, and if he does retire at Utah his deal is pretty sweet:

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=5458909&itype=CMSID

[Applejack]

Just an opinion, and not nearly such a minority view as you seem to think.

Unlike you and SU, I don’t think we need to be not just content, but very happy with annual 7 or 8-win seasons and wins in marginal bowl games, and an annually embarrassing offensive performance at the bottom of our conference, along with regular head-scratcher losses in big games. If you guys like that, fine. I’d rather have something more. I’m sorry it upsets you both so much that people like me have a different view.

I hope Kyle stays until he retires, and I won’t be sad if that day comes sooner rather than later.

I'm sorry, but people that have that view DO make me upset.

First of all, the 7-8 season win complaint is stupid because (a) it's not true and (b) even if it were true, it's a dumb complaint. A. Over the last 4 seasons we have had one seven win season, two nine win seasons, and a ten win season. So don't tell me that Kyle has plateaued at 7-8 win seasons. Second of all, even if he had, that is incredible for Utah given our history.

Second is the offense-is-terrible argument. Nothing says "I'm a Cougar" like complaining about offensive stats while you are winning 10 games in the PAC 12. What a BYU complaint: we don't throw deep enough@! Plus, this one is also not true! Utah is not "at the bottom of the conference annually" in offense. Without looking, the past two years I think they have been sixth or seventh in total offense; not great, but very average. Given or perennially good defenses, that is enough to compete and on years when we are fourth or so we can do great things. If you really replace Whit, you do not get the perennially excellent defenses. Actually, I am not sure this is a Cougar argument; I think it is a pro-Jim Fassell argument.

And lastly, the big letdown argument. Yes we lose headscratchers every year, but who doesn't. Washington lost to ASU last year; USC always craps the bed against someone. The only team that doesn't seem to lose headscratchers every year is Stanford; they just lose to Utah.

Look, if you want a new coach, that's great. Bring in some offensive guru that is going to get us up to fourth in the conference on offense, and near the bottom in defense. I can't stop you. But just don't make this stupid arguments that sound like the ravings of 12-year old BYU fans. Your Ute fan experience is not showing.

[sancho]

I love KW. He's been the architect of some magical Utah moments.
But to suggest that Utah could never do any better is backward-looking.

They will also have the chance to botch it horribly too.

Yeah, maybe I'm too pessimistic about our chances with a new coach. It's just that I've seen this movie so many times before with so many other P5 programs. Clemson won a lottery with Dabo, and everyone else lost their lottery and will buy another ticket soon.

It's a tough spot for us. We would still be a stepping stone program for up-and-coming offensive gurus. Even if we do get lucky, it's just temporary. If PJ Fleck turns Minnesota into something special, he'll be gone, and Minnesota will go back to being Minnesota.

There are enough "botch it horribly" scenarios that I feel pretty good about our current state.

Some talk about retirement lately. If KW retires, we do the best we can. But ideally, he coaches for a good long while - long enough that his coaching tree includes some good people who would love to return and take his place.

[LA Ute]

I'm sorry, but people that have that view DO make me upset.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181001/14f0c1432ab6f9f8e74a323d3de3ed37.png


Look, if you want a new coach, that's great. Bring in some offensive guru that is going to get us up to fourth in the conference on offense, and near the bottom in defense. I can't stop you. But just don't make this stupid arguments that sound like the ravings of 12-year old BYU fans. Your Ute fan experience is not showing.

Sadly, my son, my Ute fan experience is why I feel the way I do. Lots of people who are a lot older than 12 years, donate lots of money, and have been following the program for decades feel the same way. We have the right to be frustrated with the program and to say so. It doesn’t mean we want a new coach. It means we don’t see any reason to believe things will get better and that depresses us. So what? As I’ve said 100 times here, I hope KW stays until he retires. I’ll keep donating (to both football and basketball), going to the games, and supporting both programs. But I’m going to be vocally upset if we keep falling short year after year — even when we have good won-loss records — and if we remain the only program in our division that hasn’t yet won a division title. I can’t help it if that upsets you.

[NorthwestUteFan]

That two teams who beat us have close (and late) losses to a solid Auburn team and to a strong USC team.

Everybody calling for Whittingham to get fired deserve to have a few 3-9 or 0-12 seasons after a coaching change. UW wasn't immune to those years despite having EVERY possible advantage over Utah. WSU had went to the Rose Bowl twice in 3 years, only to positively shit the bed every single year for over a decade after a coaching change.

I guaran-damn-tee Utah going 3-9 after a coaching change is far more likely than going 9-3.

[LA Ute]

I didn't listen to the post game show on 700. What did Kyle et al. say?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SoCalPat]

Epiphany: Utah football needs an El Stinko season. Or to start over again from scratch.

Or, Kyle and the players need to flip the switch and do something unexpected and glorious. Short of winning the South, there's nothing left this year that would achieve that result.

The program needs a reset. I don't care how it happens. It came come from a change in leadership or a mold-breaking season. But Utah football just isn't all that exciting anymore. We rarely win big games, and we have a pretty good idea of what to expect going into every game. I wasn't even mad after Wazzu. I just shrugged my shoulders and went about my day. It helps that I work Saturdays, and I've got plenty to take my mind off Utah's results -- win or lose. I'm also cognizant enough to realize that previous sentence doesn't apply to 90 percent of you -- and even after you get over it, you've got media, friends, church, etc. to remind you of it all over again. I don't.

There is a lot that can be said about Kyle's tenure at Utah. But the positives work against him. Consistency only matters if you're at the very top, year after year. When you're consistently a middling team in the Pac-12, should you really get any credit for that? In 2011, we went 7-5 in our first year in the league, in a year in which USC was on probation and the South was as weak as it's ever been. Seven years later, we're looking at the same/similar result. If that doesn't tell you Utah Football is spinning its wheels, then you're no different than the McBride apologists that were out in force after we fired him.

They were wrong then, and they're wrong now. I'm not going to say Kyle deserves to be fired, but I know we can do better than him. I also know we can do worse than him, but right now, Utah football would be more compelling by being horrible. It beats the hell out of underachieving and missing out on opportunity after opportunity to do something of significance.

[LA Ute]

Epiphany: Utah football needs an El Stinko season. Or to start over again from scratch.

Or, Kyle and the players need to flip the switch and do something unexpected and glorious. Short of winning the South, there's nothing left this year that would achieve that result.

The program needs a reset. I don't care how it happens. It came come from a change in leadership or a mold-breaking season. But Utah football just isn't all that exciting anymore. We rarely win big games, and we have a pretty good idea of what to expect going into every game. I wasn't even mad after Wazzu. I just shrugged my shoulders and went about my day. It helps that I work Saturdays, and I've got plenty to take my mind off Utah's results -- win or lose. I'm also cognizant enough to realize that previous sentence doesn't apply to 90 percent of you -- and even after you get over it, you've got media, friends, church, etc. to remind you of it all over again. I don't.

There is a lot that can be said about Kyle's tenure at Utah. But the positives work against him. Consistency only matters if you're at the very top, year after year. When you're consistently a middling team in the Pac-12, should you really get any credit for that? In 2011, we went 7-5 in our first year in the league, in a year in which USC was on probation and the South was as weak as it's ever been. Seven years later, we're looking at the same/similar result. If that doesn't tell you Utah Football is spinning its wheels, then you're no different than the McBride apologists that were out in force after we fired him.

They were wrong then, and they're wrong now. I'm not going to say Kyle deserves to be fired, but I know we can do better than him. I also know we can do worse than him, but right now, Utah football would be more compelling by being horrible. It beats the hell out of underachieving and missing out on opportunity after opportunity to do something of significance.

Heretical, but well stated. I agree.

[chrisrenrut]

I also know we can do worse than him, but right now, Utah football would be more compelling by being horrible. It beats the hell out of underachieving and missing out on opportunity after opportunity to do something of significance.

Crazy talk right there. More compelling by being horrible? Being a Bills fan has messed you up :)

If you are going to blow up a coaching staff that has consistently achieved winning seasons, you better do so with a plan. At the very least, you better have 2 or 3 candidates in mind that will be better or at least as good.

Remember when Nebraska fired Frank Solich after a 9-4 season? And what has Nebraska done since? They hired a big name coach in Callahan, who failed miserably. They brought in a legacy coach in Riley, and he failed. Now they brought in a legacy name who is an up-and-comer, and they are having an historically bad start to their season.

[sancho]

Crazy talk right there. More compelling by being horrible?

Yup, this makes no sense at all.

[sancho]

Heretical

Are you developing a persecution complex on this?

There's nothing heretical about wanting a new coach. It's a classic, orthodox football fan way to think.

[Scorcho]

clearly Whitt hasn't figured this conference out (and maybe Utah at .500 in the PAC-12 is our ceiling), but here's a subtle reminder: with Whitt Utah is 23-1 non-conference including bowl games. That includes wins over BYU (7), Michigan (2), Indiana, WVU

[LA Ute]

Are you developing a persecution complex on this?

There's nothing heretical about wanting a new coach. It's a classic, orthodox football fan way to think.

SoCalPat was not calling for Kyle to be fired, as I read his post. Just saying the program needs a reset, which can be accomplished in several ways (like starting to play much better, right now). The heresy against the established orthodoxy here is SCP's suggesting that we can do better than Kyle and his 28-37 PAC-12 record. I don't feel persecuted, just calling it the way I see it. I still hope KW stays at Utah until he retires. If he retires at the end of his current contract that would be fine with me. In that case he would also be just fine:


...the deal provides a means for up to a decade of additional compensation — at least $3.4 million in all — for Whittingham should the 57-year-old decide to retire at Utah.

If Whittingham decides to retire while under contract at the U., he would become a "special assistant to the Athletics Director" for 10 years, according to the agreement obtained by The Tribune through the state's open records laws.

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=5458909&itype=CMSID

A happy ending for everyone. We'll then find out if the Utah job is really so unattractive that no one decent will want it.

[sancho]

A happy ending for everyone.

Maybe. It's not a happy ending for us if we are hiring again in 3 years. It's not happy if, 10 years from now, we are still paying two former coaches because we fired them early. In other words, if this goes like it normally goes for mid-level P5 programs, it's not a happy ending. But it definitely can work out. There are precedents.


We'll then find out if the Utah job is so unattractive that no one decent will want it.

Has anyone ever said that no one decent will want the position? People will be lining up for it, just like they did two years ago at Minnesota/Cal and last year at Oregon State/Arizona/Mississippi State. A shot at P5 success is what coaches dream about, and Utah is as reasonable a shot as most.

[SoCalPat]

Crazy talk right there. More compelling by being horrible? Being a Bills fan has messed you up :)

If you are going to blow up a coaching staff that has consistently achieved winning seasons, you better do so with a plan. At the very least, you better have 2 or 3 candidates in mind that will be better or at least as good.

Remember when Nebraska fired Frank Solich after a 9-4 season? And what has Nebraska done since? They hired a big name coach in Callahan, who failed miserably. They brought in a legacy coach in Riley, and he failed. Now they brought in a legacy name who is an up-and-comer, and they are having an historically bad start to their season.

It's tough to compare my feelings toward the Bills and Utes -- the former will always rate higher in my heart than the latter, it's really not even close -- but I was more jazzed about this week's game against Green Bay than I had any Utes game since 2015 Cal/ASU/USC. Why? Because both teams were coming off stretches in which the bar had been cleared by a mile. But let me make one thing clear about "compelling." I'm largely speaking in one-season snapshots. We wouldn't be compelling if we missed a bowl game for 8 straight seasons.

You almost had me cornered with the Nebraska comparison. You forgot Bo Pelini, who had decent success at Nebraska (similar to Solich), but was such a joyless, Grade-A asshole to everyone around him, any success felt bittersweet, because you really wouldn't mind watching him flail, struggle and fail. If it means a coach like Pelini, or keeping Kyle, I'll give Kyle a lifetime contract (I've never once, and never will, criticize Kyle for his personal stamp he's put on the program, which is commendable, classy and rewarding for all who are part of the program). Fortunately, college sports don't work in such absolutes.

[Applejack]

This conversation is because we lost to the #8ish team in the nation and a good, not great Washington State team on the road? I get the frustration with our offense; I feel it too. But what I don't get is this idea that (a) there is a magical coach avaialble who will dramatically alter our progress AND (b) we would have a reasonable chance of identifying said coach. I think as Sancho has ably pointed out (and history has backed up repeatedly) hiring a new coach is generally a losing proposition. Ucla, Arizona, Nebraska, and Florida State all hired coaches last year that likely were out of our league. But they all suck! And that was last year alone! Odds are pretty slim of landing that second Urban Meyer (who also got incredibly lucky; first overall NFL draft pick is your backup? At Utah?).

Just remember, we don't get to keep the defense when we trade up for a shiny new offensive coach. That's not how this works.

[SoCalPat]

Another thing to consider: Fans are afraid of losing, want to avoid it at any cost, and put way too much stock into empty accomplishments. Ask yourself this: Do you really think anyone connected with the West Virginia fanbase gives a rip that they lost their bowl game to Utah?

The easiest losing season I can remember swallowing as a Ute fan? 2013, easy. We beat Stanford, took Oregon State, ASU and UCLA to the wire and our young QB missed significant time late because of injury. It was also Erickson's first year, and you could see that even though the records were the same in 2012 and 2013, the 2013 team was miles better than the previous edition.

There's still time to make this season better, but a two-year-long step back from what was done in 2014-16 means 2019 is a no-excuses year for the entire program.

[Rocker Ute]

Another thing to consider: Fans are afraid of losing, want to avoid it at any cost, and put way too much stock into empty accomplishments. Ask yourself this: Do you really think anyone connected with the West Virginia fanbase gives a rip that they lost their bowl game to Utah?

The easiest losing season I can remember swallowing as a Ute fan? 2013, easy. We beat Stanford, took Oregon State, ASU and UCLA to the wire and our young QB missed significant time late because of injury. It was also Erickson's first year, and you could see that even though the records were the same in 2012 and 2013, the 2013 team was miles better than the previous edition.

There's still time to make this season better, but a two-year-long step back from what was done in 2014-16 means 2019 is a no-excuses year for the entire program.

Very true, and all the offensive woes have overshadowed what is shaping up to be a special defense.

[SoCalPat]

This conversation is because we lost to the #8ish team in the nation and a good, not great Washington State team on the road? I get the frustration with our offense; I feel it too. But what I don't get is this idea that (a) there is a magical coach avaialble who will dramatically alter our progress AND (b) we would have a reasonable chance of identifying said coach. I think as Sancho has ably pointed out (and history has backed up repeatedly) hiring a new coach is generally a losing proposition. Ucla, Arizona, Nebraska, and Florida State all hired coaches last year that likely were out of our league. But they all suck! And that was last year alone! Odds are pretty slim of landing that second Urban Meyer (who also got incredibly lucky; first overall NFL draft pick is your backup? At Utah?).

Just remember, we don't get to keep the defense when we trade up for a shiny new offensive coach. That's not how this works.

Leach was to a small degree damaged goods when hired by Wazzu. He's 3-1 against Kyle and has won three straight with obviously lesser talent.

Harlan hired Charlie Strong off the scrap heap at USF, freshly fired from Texas. He's done pretty well there. Too early to say about Brian Gregory (ex-Georgia Tech HC) for basketball. I think it's way too early to discount what Harlan can do in terms of hiring new coaches at Utah. He's going to have to do it eventually.

[UTEopia]

Leach was to a small degree damaged goods when hired by Wazzu. He's 3-1 against Kyle and has won three straight with obviously lesser talent.


I just don't see the obviously lesser talent. While Utah's defensive personnel is better than Wazzu, I would submit that every offensive personnel group at Wazzu, excluding RB, is better than Utah, and RB really doesn't matter because of their scheme.

[sancho]

Speaking of talent, the most important job of a coaching staff is recruiting. Utah's recruiting has improved slowly and steadily since joining the Pac-12.

[LA Ute]

Speaking of talent, the most important job of a coaching staff is recruiting. Utah's recruiting has improved slowly and steadily since joining the Pac-12.

True. That has been quite evident to those who’ve been paying attention.

[SoCalPat]

I just don't see the obviously lesser talent. While Utah's defensive personnel is better than Wazzu, I would submit that every offensive personnel group at Wazzu, excluding RB, is better than Utah, and RB really doesn't matter because of their scheme.

We had more NFL draft picks in 2016 than Leach has had his entire 6-year tenure in Pullman. Add our massive edge in STs, and we never should lose three straight to Wazzu.

Wazzu entered Saturday’s game 7th in total defense. Wake me up when Kyle has a team that’s 7th in total offense.

[Applejack]

We had more NFL draft picks in 2016 than Leach has had his entire 6-year tenure in Pullman. Add our massive edge in STs, and we never should lose three straight to Wazzu.

Wazzu entered Saturday’s game 7th in total defense. Wake me up when Kyle has a team that’s 7th in total offense.

Sorry. for not knowing, but what is an ST?

[chrisrenrut]

Sorry. for not knowing, but what is an ST?

I’m guessing Special Teams.

[SoCalPat]

I’m guessing Special Teams.

Correct.

[UTEopia]

How can Kyle ever compete with the Pirate? This is unbelievable.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24866357/the-untold-1999-texas-oklahoma-story-mike-leach-fake-play-script

[LA Ute]

This is pretty interesting.

One Play: Breaking down Washington State’s 89-yard, game-winning touchdown pass

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/10/02/one-play-breaking-down-washington-states-89-yard-game-winning-touchdown-pass/

[UTEopia]

This is pretty interesting.

One Play: Breaking down Washington State’s 89-yard, game-winning touchdown pass

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/10/02/one-play-breaking-down-washington-states-89-yard-game-winning-touchdown-pass/


There is so much involved in every play that we do not see or understand. I guess that is why it is so easy for us to Monday morning QB everything. We don't need to account for the intricacies.

[LA Ute]

There is so much involved in every play that we do not see or understand. I guess that is why it is so easy for us to Monday morning QB everything. We don't need to account for the intricacies.


Agreed. I thought it was interesting how well the WSU OC understood exactly what we were doing defensively. No doubt Scalley also knew what to expect from WSU offensively. After all the scheming, players make plays. The chess game aspect of it all is fascinating.