2020 Presidential Race

[Ma'ake]

The race is on!

Elizabeth Warren is the biggest name so far, but one name I think could emerge is Governor Jay Inslee of Washington.

Inslee's state has very impressive economic numbers, and he makes a compelling case that sustainable energy is the Apollo project the nation needs to ween ourselves off fossil fuels and create a lot of technology & related jobs.

I was a little disappointed to see Romney rule out a 2020 run, to be honest. But 88% of Republicans back Trump, so whatever happens with the various investigations - Mueller, SDNY, State of NY, the Emoluments lawsuits - might change the landscape.

[LA Ute]

Joe Biden expected to announce 2020 presidential run

https://nypost.com/2019/01/13/joe-biden-expected-to-announce-2020-presidential-run/?sr_share=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPFacebook

[LA Ute]

Willie Brown takes a little jab at his former (20 years ago) girlfriend.

Kamala Harris has buzz, but it takes more than buzz to win an election

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/williesworld/article/Kamala-Harris-has-buzz-but-it-takes-more-than-13563418.php

[Ma'ake]

Willie Brown takes a little jab at his former (20 years ago) girlfriend.

Kamala Harris has buzz, but it takes more than buzz to win an election

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/williesworld/article/Kamala-Harris-has-buzz-but-it-takes-more-than-13563418.php

Harris has undeniable charisma, is smart, good potential. Winnowing the Dem field is going to be fascinating.

The Medicare for All position might be too aggressive... but the electorate is getting younger, quickly.

One of our best MDs, a really high bandwidth MD-researcher who is highly respected, is from BC. He said "though it may be unpopular among my cohorts, the best way to reduce our exorbitant costs in healthcare is to go to a Single Payer model". He mentioned a new kind of imaging, which has been very impressive in precisely locating disease, which a lot of private insurers won't cover, leaving the patient to pay $14,000.

"Or, I tell my patients you can go on a vacation. The same imaging procedure will cost you $400 in Australia, or $600 in Canada, out of pocket". The kicker - it's not a subsidized cost the Canadian and Australian taxpayers are paying for. We're just paying through the nose, and half the time private insurance won't cover it.

Healthcare is going to circle back around as an issue.

[LA Ute]

Harris has undeniable charisma, is smart, good potential. Winnowing the Dem field is going to be fascinating.

The Medicare for All position might be too aggressive... but the electorate is getting younger, quickly.

One of our best MDs, a really high bandwidth MD-researcher who is highly respected, is from BC. He said "though it may be unpopular among my cohorts, the best way to reduce our exorbitant costs in healthcare is to go to a Single Payer model". He mentioned a new kind of imaging, which has been very impressive in precisely locating disease, which a lot of private insurers won't cover, leaving the patient to pay $14,000.

"Or, I tell my patients you can go on a vacation. The same imaging procedure will cost you $400 in Australia, or $600 in Canada, out of pocket". The kicker - it's not a subsidized cost the Canadian and Australian taxpayers are paying for. We're just paying through the nose, and half the time private insurance won't cover it.

Healthcare is going to circle back around as an issue.

I doubt we will see single payer in our lifetimes.

[mUUser]

The great thing for me is that I don't have to pay attention. I already know I'm voting for whoever runs against Pres Trump. I can ignore all the passionate idiocy of primaries and debates until Nov 2020. This is the easiest voting decision of my lifetime.


I know I'm not voting for Trump. I don't know yet if I'm voting for the Democratic candidate.

[LA Ute]

I know I'm not voting for Trump. I don't know yet if I'm voting for the Democratic candidate.

I’ll write you in, muuser.

[mUUser]

I’ll write you in, muuser.


My initial impression of Howard Schultz is pretty positive. Seems sensible and appears to have the temperament that could get some things done and temper the political rhetoric of the day. We'll see how that progresses.

[concerned]

My initial impression of Howard Schultz is pretty positive. Seems sensible and appears to have the temperament that could get some things done and temper the political rhetoric of the day. We'll see how that progresses.

I had just the opposite reaction: A bored very wealthy guy embarking on a vanity project for attention who doesn't really have any idea what he is doing or a purpose for doing it. Sort of like Trump, except he is not mentally ill.

[mUUser]

Cory Booker in.

I can say this will 100% confidence. I won't vote for any democrat, save perhaps Klochubar, that had a hand in the Kavanaugh shat-show. The excludes Booker & Harris. Also won't vote for any candidate lurching left. That's two reasons not to vote for Harris.

Crazy Uncle Joe doesn't have the cerebral horsepower to run the country.

Not voting for Trump anyway, but, if he insists on declaring a national emergency over the wall, then not only am I not voting for him, but, I'm giving up my (R) and joining with the independents. Obama got the executive power grab rolling, but, if Trump has the authority to declare a NE over the wall, then the next president might declare a NE over climate change, healthcare, income disparity or any other divisive issue. These things ought to be left for Congress to hash out.

Schultz still looks pretty good to me. Waiting on other democratic candidates to declare...….

[LA Ute]

Elizabeth Warren Apologizes to
Cherokee Nation for DNA Test

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/01/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-cherokee-dna.html

[LA Ute]

Just after the elections, after Northam won by painting his opponent as a racist:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190202/3df5e748d46293f3b01e4e4b1588b2e4.jpg

Now:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190202/fcc0df2599965e5b12db7c08edad2302.jpg

[Rocker Ute]

...you will be writing in Alex Smith like I did last time.

This country could use a terrific game manager.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ma'ake]

Just after the elections, after Northam won by painting his opponent as a racist:



The coverage I saw on this was last night was a bit deeper. Multiple seasoned Dems in VA said they were shocked by the 1984 yearbook photos, which Northram admitted to and profusely apologized for.

Northram might be a changed man... but like with Al Franken, the lens looking backward might be a bit unfair, but there has to be unclouded clarity today. With 60% of Democratic voters in VA being African Americans, Northram just won't be able to be effective. It's like finding multiple DUIs in the past of the president of Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Gotta go. Sorry.

In a way, I feel bad for these guys from the South who grew up thinking this kind of stuff was OK, or funny, or whatever.

Going back just 7 years before 1984, I'll never forget Utah coach Wayne Howard's reaction to something said to him after BYU demolished the Utes, when they brought Marc Wilson back in to set a passing record. We were walking across the field (could be done in the those days) and as a teenager I saw a ruckus, which turned out to be Wayne Howard being restrained by other Utah coaches/staff.

An assistant, or trainer, or somebody with the Utes team said Howard confronted the Y coaches for the late RUTS, and apparently a BYU assistant told Howard "take your dirty niggers and get out of here"... explaining Howard's reaction. I saw it in real time. No idea who the Y assistant was, but 1977 was an era of toxic racial belief in Utah, though there were very, very few African Americans here.

If that assistant coach is still alive and wanted to run for political office, you'd see a similar response, if opposition research uncovered solid evidence of what happened. Doesn't matter that it was a different era, doesn't matter if that assistant went on to be a mission president in Africa and had effectively become a different person in terms of views on race.

Some stuff is so radioactive it just doesn't matter how long ago, and how much personal change had occurred since, with regard to being Governor or another public service office.

In the South the KKK still operates today, racism still exists, no matter what Roger Stone says.

[Rocker Ute]

The coverage I saw on this was last night was a bit deeper. Multiple seasoned Dems in VA said they were shocked by the 1984 yearbook photos, which Northram admitted to and profusely apologized for.

Northram might be a changed man... but like with Al Franken, the lens looking backward might be a bit unfair, but there has to be unclouded clarity today. With 60% of Democratic voters in VA being African Americans, Northram just won't be able to be effective. It's like finding multiple DUIs in the past of the president of Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Gotta go. Sorry.

In a way, I feel bad for these guys from the South who grew up thinking this kind of stuff was OK, or funny, or whatever.

Going back just 7 years before 1984, I'll never forget Utah coach Wayne Howard's reaction to something said to him after BYU demolished the Utes, when they brought Marc Wilson back in to set a passing record. We were walking across the field (could be done in the those days) and as a teenager I saw a ruckus, which turned out to be Wayne Howard being restrained by other Utah coaches/staff.

An assistant, or trainer, or somebody with the Utes team said Howard confronted the Y coaches for the late RUTS, and apparently a BYU assistant told Howard "take your dirty niggers and get out of here"... explaining Howard's reaction. I saw it in real time. No idea who the Y assistant was, but 1977 was an era of toxic racial belief in Utah, though there were very, very few African Americans here.

If that assistant coach is still alive and wanted to run for political office, you'd see a similar response, if opposition research uncovered solid evidence of what happened. Doesn't matter that it was a different era, doesn't matter if that assistant went on to be a mission president in Africa and had effectively become a different person in terms of views on race.

Some stuff is so radioactive it just doesn't matter how long ago, and how much personal change had occurred since, with regard to being Governor or another public service office.

In the South the KKK still operates today, racism still exists, no matter what Roger Stone says.

I don't disagree with you at all on this and his need to resign (although he is now backing off and claiming it isn't him in the photo... peculiar). All of this is pretty fascinating to me though as the future holds an unprecedented, non-deteriorating and searchable record of every misstep our children may ever make. Will we gain wisdom to recognize the folly of youth, or even the chance for someone to make a change, or will this sort of stuff get more intense?

Also, what is socially acceptable today that won't be in the future that will snag people?

It is also interesting to think of things that would have been disqualifiers in the past that no longer are, like infidelity, sexual assault, corruption, bankruptcies etc.

[LA Ute]

From a Brit Hume tweet:


Quote of the day: Fmr SF mayor Willie Brown on the time he was dating Kamala Harris: “She loved me, I loved me. It was the perfect relationship.”


Nobody ever mentions that Willie was married at the time.

[NorthwestUteFan]

[FONT=Helvetica]From a Brit Hume tweet:



Nobody ever mentions that Willie was married at the time.Willie was "married", but had been separated for almost 20 years at that time.

[LA Ute]

Willie was "married", but had been separated for almost 20 years at that time.

I didn’t know that. (Most people probably didn’t.) But maybe Harris and Brown were just “dating,” not dating. 😎

[NorthwestUteFan]

I didn’t know that. (Most people probably didn’t.) But maybe Harris and Brown were just “dating,” not dating. 😎I don't know what you are trying to insinuate, and won't discuss the obvious slut shaming. Buy the Republicans have forever lost the ability to have ANY sort of high ground on any question of morals.

[LA Ute]

I don't know what you are trying to insinuate, and won't discuss the obvious slut shaming. Buy the Republicans have forever lost the ability to have ANY sort of high ground on any question of morals.

I was really just teasing you about your scare quotes, my friend.

But now that I think about it, this disregard of marital fidelity is a bipartisan thing. Kennedy got away with it, Gary Hart didn’t, Clinton didn’t, and Trump is the most blatant about it — he pretty much erased the earlier standard of behavior, so now it’s not really even an issue with Kamala Harris. I am not being a prude, just playing political scientist.

[LA Ute]

Could Howard Schultz be the common ground we need?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/could-howard-schultz-be-the-common-ground-we-need/2019/01/31/82512776-256f-11e9-90cd-dedb0c92dc17_story.html?utm_term=.f42dc1ccde77

[Ma'ake]

This is just one more item on the list of evidence that the American public no longer values forgiveness.

I think it's interesting to see which Christian virtues survive and which are discarded in our post-Christian America. Love and hope are thankfully doing alright, I think. People still see patience as a strength. Forgiveness, modesty, and temperance seem to be on the way out. Self-reliance - is that a Christian virtue? - is now listed as a dangerous aspect of masculinity by the APA, alongside stoicism.

Hard to know which behaviors are forgiveable, which aren't. When I was in HS, we had a big prep rally before our football team played for the HS championship, against our rival, West, who had a couple of stars who were African American.

One our FB captains got up and did a blackface attempt at mocking West and their stars, with a hideous attempt at a black accent, with a dumb wig that was supposed to be an Afro. I thought it was in extremely poor taste, but though we were taught racist things growing up, there were no African Americans in my part of Davis County, no lynchings, etc. We were spectacularly ignorant.

(Ironically, one of the West players, Reggie Wilson, who went on to play at the U, ended up being the brother in law of our "blackface" captain, though I don't think there was serious racism or lingering malice... I think he was just mocking West in the same manner he'd heard was done in other parts of the nation. 1979.)

How many Utah politicians were ex-Polygamists in the early 20th century? How many remained in marriages, were living out commitments, reluctant to walk away, but vowing to not continue accumulating wives?

How many could get away with that now? Could one of the Kingstons ask for forgiveness for beating his 16 year old daughter who didn't want to marry his brother, but aspires to public office? (I think this is an absolute clear "no".)

What's forgivable, what's not? I think marital infidelity might be murky. Trump's behavior with porn stars while the wife is home with a baby is probably unforgivable for many... but he's the President. If it came out that a man physically battered his wife, that's probably a clear unforgiveable.

[LA Ute]

Howard Schultz unifies the parties — against him

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/howard-schultz-unifies-the-parties-against-him


The question is, why the freakout? A Pew survey on political ideology last November showed overall Americans place themselves close to the midpoint on the ideological scale. Why would someone running as a centrist get so much guff?

Easy, said Michael Wear, a Democrat who worked in the White House’s faith-based office during President Barack Obama’s first term and directed faith outreach for Obama’s 2012 re-election campaign. “I think their position against him goes especially to the early part of the primary process, which is tailored to activists and donors rather than voters, so as someone outside of the party system, they can expose all of those weakness,” he said.

“And they can also expose all of the room in the middle, because they are trying to win campaigns on how awful the other candidate is,” he said.

In short, his or any other independent run exposes how the partisan game is played and how much voters’ concerns are ignored in favor of donors' and activists'.

Neither party wants to reveal the fact that they want to avoid the middle to win the primary, and you can’t win a primary without throwing out red meat to the activists and the donors.

An independent centrist like Schultz wouldn’t face the scrutiny of a competitive primary race, says Wear. “That is why I am cold on independent candidacies, especially in an election that is going to be this important."

But that does not mean centrist Democrats shouldn’t run, said Wear.

“Of course, there is room for a centrist, and I hope that more centrists run in the Democratic Party," he said, "someone who puts forward an active vision of how government could help those in need and the crisis we face in economics and climate change and presses the pause button on the culture wars."

"This is where I think there is an opportunity for someone who would tone down the vitriol in politics and have an active vision to bring us together," said Wear. “I think of Michael Bennett, Mitch Landrieu, John Bel Edwards, or Amy Klobuchar,” he said of the sitting Colorado senator, former New Orleans Mayor, governor of Louisiana, and senator from Minnesota, respectively.

Every over reaction in American politics tends to be about one of the two parties' vulnerabilities. An independent candidate like a Schultz hits at both establishment parties' weaknesses; they care more about their donors and their activists than the majority of the people in this country just looking for competent leadership.

[LA Ute]

Does this mean Warren is pretty much toast?


Using an open records request during a general inquiry, for example, The Post obtained Warren’s registration card for the State Bar of Texas, providing a previously undisclosed example of Warren identifying as an “American Indian.” … The Texas bar registration card is significant, among other reasons, because it removes any doubt that Warren directly claimed the identity. In other instances Warren has declined to say whether she or an assistant filled out forms.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190206/1a380645ce302ee9af37f1085cdc0cf1.jpg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/elizabeth-warren-apologizes-for-calling-herself-native-american/2019/02/05/1627df76-2962-11e9-984d-9b8fba003e81_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.87c8be82c252

[sancho]

Does this mean Warren is pretty much toast?


Maybe.I think that would be a shame. I don't know if she'd be good or not (I like many parts of her story minus the Harvard thing), but we disqualify people for so many silly reasons in politics. This is a mistake we should be willing to let go of.

[LA Ute]

Maybe.I think that would be a shame. I don't know if she'd be good or not (I like many parts of her story minus the Harvard thing), but we disqualify people for so many silly reasons in politics. This is a mistake we should be willing to let go of.

I'd never vote for her anyway. I'm just wondering if she will get a pass from her party. I don't think so. Her supposed Native American ancestry has been tall tale that she's been telling for many years. Then again, Trump lies daily. Bill Clinton also had a flexible relationship with the truth, and they both became POTUS. So did Nixon and Johnson. Hmmm...I might be on to something here!

[Mormon Red Death]

Does this mean Warren is pretty much toast?



https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/elizabeth-warren-apologizes-for-calling-herself-native-american/2019/02/05/1627df76-2962-11e9-984d-9b8fba003e81_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.87c8be82c252

I sure hope so. I decided the other day I needed to check out and see what Warren was about and how she has voted. IE I needed to see if I was being unfairly biased as I know some people who I respect who really like her. so I google her:

Her campaign website has nothing on her except a 5 minute video explaining how those who play by the rules cant get ahead. Nothing on her political positions. So I go to ballotpedia to see how she has voted. Here is a tidbit:

voted with the democrats 98.1% of the time.

Based on an analysis of bill sponsorship by GovTrack, Warren was a "rank-and-file Democrat (https://ballotpedia.org/GovTrack%27s_Political_Spectrum_%26_Legislative_Le adership_ranking)" as of July 22, 2014.[13] (https://ballotpedia.org/Elizabeth_Warren/Issues_and_analysis#cite_note-13) This was the same rating Warren received in June 2013.
IMO her knowledge of Basic economics is not strong or she could just be lying (looking at her bullshit "heritage" this isnt out of the question). Her position on minimum wage is moronic.

The above article just adds to the evidence that she is a gigantic phony

[sancho]

voted with the democrats 98.1% of the time.


Who are the senators who did not vote with their party most of the time? How many of them are there? Did any of them come from deep blue/red states? I'm legitimately curious here.

I think there are some things to like about her. I like that Warren was not born with a silver spoon in her mouth. She came from a working class family and worked herself as a teen. She didn't go to an ivy league school as an undergraduate. She spent some time as a stay at home mom and some time as a working woman. Maybe none of that makes her a candidate of choice, but I bet she at least has some positive character traits, which we cannot say about our current president.

The big "lie" about Native American heritage wasn't a lie, was it? Didn't the DNA test confirm some Native American heritage? I might be remembering that wrong. That whole thing seems silly to me.

[Mormon Red Death]

Who are the senators who did not vote with their party most of the time? How many of them are there? Did any of them come from deep blue/red states? I'm legitimately curious here.

I think there are some things to like about her. I like that Warren was not born with a silver spoon in her mouth. She came from a working class family and worked herself as a teen. She didn't go to an ivy league school as an undergraduate. She spent some time as a stay at home mom and some time as a working woman. Maybe none of that makes her a candidate of choice, but I bet she at least has some positive character traits, which we cannot say about our current president.

The big "lie" about Native American heritage wasn't a lie, was it? Didn't the DNA test confirm some Native American heritage? I might be remembering that wrong. That whole thing seems silly to me.

She has a very small amount. Not enough to be considered by the tribes as Native american. She has used her "Heritage" to further her career. She talks about the normal person not having a fair shake... What about her own story? seems like she had fair shake. She's incredibly disingenous. "we need to make the ultra rich pay their fair share!" That means a big tax on anyone worth over 50 million. She's worth 9 million dollars (https://money.cnn.com/2015/01/08/news/economy/elizabeth-warren-wealth/) she is the top .05% of net worth in the world.

[Rocker Ute]

It seems that if bragging about sexually assaulting women and cheating on your wife with porn stars doesn't disqualify a candidate then pretty much nothing does.

That being said, Warren's handling of the Native American thing has to be one of the most embarrassing political gaffes in modern history.


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[Rocker Ute]

She has a very small amount. Not enough to be considered by the tribes as Native american. She has used her "Heritage" to further her career. She talks about the normal person not having a fair shake... What about her own story? seems like she had fair shake. She's incredibly disingenous. "we need to make the ultra rich pay their fair share!" That means a big tax on anyone worth over 50 million. She's worth 9 million dollars (https://money.cnn.com/2015/01/08/news/economy/elizabeth-warren-wealth/) she is the top .05% of net worth in the world.

If I was for wealth redistribution, which I'm not, I would still think that taxation has to be the absolute worst way to redistribute that wealth. There's that old joke of "Harley Davidson's are the most efficient way of turning gasoline into noise..." well government has to be the most efficient way of turning money into vapor.

If people really wanted the wealthy to help more to lift up the lower class then perhaps a tax of 70% that could be waived if 50% of their wealth was given to charitable sources or something. But I suspect that taxing the ultra-rich it isn't really about that.

[mUUser]

Does this mean Warren is pretty much toast?



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190206/1a380645ce302ee9af37f1085cdc0cf1.jpg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/elizabeth-warren-apologizes-for-calling-herself-native-american/2019/02/05/1627df76-2962-11e9-984d-9b8fba003e81_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.87c8be82c252

Yeah, she's toast.

If the dems were down to 2 or 3 candidates, she might survive, but, when there's 30 choices available with no distinguishing difference between her and most the other candidates (unlike Trump), there's no way they'll take on her baggage.

I'm not a dem, so have no horse in this race, but, if they're looking for Progressives/Socialists, they'll have many other choices.

[LA Ute]

Cory Booker invents language in awkward interview: 'Swiss! Yeah, I do not speak Swiss' (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/10/cory-booker-invents-swiss-language-iowa-interview/)

We’ll probably hear about this only on conservative media. Maybe on CNN, but only from a reporter who speaks Austrian.

[UTEopia]

Cory Booker invents language in awkward interview: 'Swiss! Yeah, I do not speak Swiss' (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/10/cory-booker-invents-swiss-language-iowa-interview/)

We’ll probably hear about this only on conservative media. Maybe on CNN, but only from a reporter who speaks Austrian.

I don't know about you, but I don't speak Swiss or Austrian. I barely understand Australian.

[UTEopia]

If I was for wealth redistribution, which I'm not, I would still think that taxation has to be the absolute worst way to redistribute that wealth. There's that old joke of "Harley Davidson's are the most efficient way of turning gasoline into noise..." well government has to be the most efficient way of turning money into vapor.

If people really wanted the wealthy to help more to lift up the lower class then perhaps a tax of 70% that could be waived if 50% of their wealth was given to charitable sources or something. But I suspect that taxing the ultra-rich it isn't really about that.

The problem with wealthy folks giving money to charity is that they create their own charities and then give to that and then funnel it back to themselves. It has worked for years and Trump and Clintons are just the latest in a long line. The best way to have the wealthy pay more is a flat tax, no deductions, no credits, no fictional depreciation of real property, no paper losses. Every taxpayer gets a federal poverty line personal exemption.

[LA Ute]

I don't know about you, but I don't speak Swiss or Austrian. I barely understand Australian.

I am fluent in Great Basinese.

[LA Ute]

Bernie Sanders’s biggest strength for 2020 is his ability to thrive on chaos

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/22/bernie-sanderss-biggest-strength-is-his-ability-thrive-chaos/?utm_term=.2154059f592d&wpisrc=nl_ideas&wpmm=1

I wonder if Bernie will benefit as the other more mainstream Dem candidates divide their chunk of the electorate and he keeps winning with his base, like Trump in 2016.

[LA Ute]

The Anger of Amy Klobuchar

Don’t sell cruelty and pathological behavior as a feminist victory.

by Caitlin Flanagan (https://www.theatlantic.com/author/caitlin-flanagan/)
Contributing writer at The Atlantic and author of Girl Land

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/telling-reactions-tales-amy-klobuchars-rage/584104/

[sancho]

The Anger of Amy Klobuchar


Crazy, she became a candidate after the supreme court hearings because she seemed so moderate and in control. Now, she's all but out.

I found out yesterday that Cory Booker is vegan. Disappointing. Someone better step up, or we better get an impeachment. I don't want four more years.

[Rocker Ute]

Crazy, she became a candidate after the supreme court hearings because she seemed so moderate and in control. Now, she's all but out.

I found out yesterday that Cory Booker is vegan. Disappointing. Someone better step up, or we better get an impeachment. I don't want four more years.

Don't worry, Mark Cuban might throw his hat in the ring.

Is this really the best we've got?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ma'ake]

Kamala Harris with a general election kind of move: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/438514-kamala-harris-i-am-a-gun-owner-for-personal-protection

Her polling early has been good. Democrats wouldn't bail on her because she owns a gun. It might bring on independents, and she could be a voice to push toward common sense gun restrictions.

[Rocker Ute]

Kamala Harris with a general election kind of move: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/438514-kamala-harris-i-am-a-gun-owner-for-personal-protection

Her polling early has been good. Democrats wouldn't bail on her because she owns a gun. It might bring on independents, and she could be a voice to push toward common sense gun restrictions.

Gotta question the "neither hot nor cold" strategy on this one. I think it will have the opposite effect of alienating her liberal base and also alienating the people on the right disgusted with Trump. The gun control debate has almost religious passion behind it.

I'm very discouraged by the candidates out there right now and fearful of another 4 years of Trump. The left seems to continue to be oblivious to a candidate that will appeal the the majority of America.

Never underestimate the power of the devil you know.


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[LA Ute]

Gotta question the "neither hot nor cold" strategy on this one. I think it will have the opposite effect of alienating her liberal base and also alienating the people on the right disgusted with Trump. The gun control debate has almost religious passion behind it.

I'm very discouraged by the candidates out there right now and fearful of another 4 years of Trump. The left seems to continue to be oblivious to a candidate that will appeal the the majority of America.

Never underestimate the power of the devil you know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Usually the candidates campaign in the primaries on their parties' wing, then race to the center in the general election. She's moving to the center early. It'll be interesting to see if that works. I think it's kinda smart, although I hate the thought of her being president.

[LA Ute]

NY Times:

‘Stop Sanders’ Democrats Are Agonizing Over His Momentum

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html

In 2016 I was really surprised to see how many young people (millennials) from conservative Latter-day Saint families — many at BYU — were enthusiastic Sanders supporters. I won’t be surprised (but I will be dismayed) if we see a Trump-like phenomenon with Bernie. He’s a smart, tough pol and is good on the stump. Not to mention the epitome of anti-establishment.

[UTEopia]

NY Times:

‘Stop Sanders’ Democrats Are Agonizing Over His Momentum

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html

In 2016 I was really surprised to see how many young people (millennials) from conservative Latter-day Saint families — many at BYU — were enthusiastic Sanders supporters. I won’t be surprised (but I will be dismayed) if we see a Trump-like phenomenon with Bernie. He’s a smart, tough pol and is good on the stump. Not to mention the epitome of anti-establishment.

Why surprised, "socialism" is providing them a great, inexpensive education. Too bad the rest of the masses of LDS college age students don't receive the same benefit. Unlike their parents, socialism is not a scary word. They see it all around them.

[LA Ute]

Why surprised, "socialism" is providing them a great, inexpensive education. Too bad the rest of the masses of LDS college age students don't receive the same benefit. Unlike their parents, socialism is not a scary word. They see it all around them.

To be fair I saw it among lots of active LDS millennials in Utah and California, including some of my non-Cougar nieces and nephews — not just at BYU. Kids raised in pretty conservative homes. I’m not criticizing them, just noting the phenomenon.

[Ma'ake]

Why surprised, "socialism" is providing them a great, inexpensive education. Too bad the rest of the masses of LDS college age students don't receive the same benefit. Unlike their parents, socialism is not a scary word. They see it all around them.

In the Fort Lauderdale airport, stuck in a TSA line, talking with a woman with a thick French accent. Turns out she was born in Luxembourg, now lives in Montreal. "I hate the Europeans, they are so Socialist!"

Me: "Canada is not socialist?"

Her: "No, Canada is not close to socialist. You are American, I am sorry, but you wouldn't understand"

I think one of the problems is here "socialism" is defined as a slippery slope, everything from a public library to Venezuela.

Of course Millennials are going to have no problem jettisoning big parts of this expansive definition, embracing what has historically been deemed as verboten.

This goes back to a column LA posted about how the Scandinavian counties have a more cohesive social structure that allows a broad social safety net while embracing the engine of capitalism. In the historic denigration of Ted Kennedy-style social programs as socialism, we've inadvertently created a chaotic ideological minefield where trying to even get on common terms is a massive lift.

[mUUser]

https://www.businessinsider.com/tax-returns-show-2020-democratic-candidates-donated-little-to-charity-2019-4


Easier to spend YOUR money...….

[LA Ute]

He makes some good points, but the Democrats are excellent at messaging and at disciplining their message, so I think they will probably get this figured out by 2020. The news media will help them too.

The unwitting Committee to Re-elect the President


Given his consistently poor approval ratings, and growing concern about the polarization that he has exacerbated, Democrats should have little trouble ousting President Trump next year. But instead, with a series of outlandish and often deeply unpopular proposals, they have morphed effectively into the Committee to Re-Elect the President.

Democrats could succeed easily if they focused on basic middle class issues, such as health care and reforming the tax system, where popular opinion, including among working class whites, is largely on their side. Infrastructure spending, if they can somehow disassociate it from the usual pork-barreling, could also gain support, particularly from construction workers.

Instead many Democratic candidates appear if they are trying to win the campus and media intersectionality challenge, emphasizing cultural “purity” in ways that worry such craftier politicians as Barack Obama. The views now commonly expressed on gender, race, immigration and the environment may work in the deep blue recesses of our majority cities, but are unlikely to play in Peoria.

[U-Ute]

To be fair I saw it among lots of active LDS millennials in Utah and California, including some of my non-Cougar nieces and nephews — not just at BYU. Kids raised in pretty conservative homes. I’m not criticizing them, just noting the phenomenon.

I'm currently working at a tech startup in South Jordan full of Utah County millenials. If their thinking is any barometer of the future, the GOP is dead. I mean, if you can't win in Utah County.....

[Ma'ake]

Mayor Pete goes into "enemy territory", Fox News, and criticizes a couple of Fox hosts. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/buttigieg-attacks-fox-news-hosts-fox-news-town-hall-n1007546

I think he's right - there are a lot of good people who watch Fox News. It takes guts - and leadership - to reach out in a venue where you know many will reflexively be against you.

[UTEopia]

This article noting how millennials are way behind previous generations in many ways may be why so many are looking at socialism as a way of leveling the playing field.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/playing-catch-up-in-the-game-of-life-millennials-approach-middle-age-in-crisis/ar-AABADLe?li=BBnbfcN

[Rocker Ute]

This article noting how millennials are way behind previous generations in many ways may be why so many are looking at socialism as a way of leveling the playing field.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/playing-catch-up-in-the-game-of-life-millennials-approach-middle-age-in-crisis/ar-AABADLe?li=BBnbfcN

This is a problem long anticipated since my college days that at that time was attributed to the relative size of baby boomers to other generations. That size is compounded by the fact that that generation is marked by excess and little to no savings and debt into the time of their lives they should be debt free.

I remember on economics professor saying, "good luck to you guys wanting to get an executive level position in your 40s... you are going to need a lot of people to die, because the boomers are going to have to cling to their positions well past retirement age."

I look at the starter home prices today and wonder how anyone gets a starter home. Someday though will be a glut of real estate as the boomers look to downsize from their McMansions.

Utah however has a population makeup that will help insulate it from a lot of these challenges. Our demographic makeup resembles 1950s America with the percentage of married couples and children.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mUUser]

.....I look at the starter home prices today and wonder how anyone gets a starter home. Someday though will be a glut of real estate as the boomers look to downsize from their McMansions.....

Ran into this article just today.....


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/more-baby-boomers-stay-in-their-homes-as-they-reach-retirement-skipping-downsizing/ar-AABFSPu?li=BBnb7Kz

[Ma'ake]

This article noting how millennials are way behind previous generations in many ways may be why so many are looking at socialism as a way of leveling the playing field.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/playing-catch-up-in-the-game-of-life-millennials-approach-middle-age-in-crisis/ar-AABADLe?li=BBnbfcN

This is the heart of the issue. The magnitude of the Great Recession and associated decade-long recovery have put a big dent in the reputation of our economic system.

[LA Ute]

Advice to the Dems from an Obama campaign executive.

I Helped Obama Win in 2012. Now Trump Is Using the Same Playbook.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/trump-could-win-2020-heres-what-democrats-can-do/591265/

[Ma'ake]

Advice to the Dems from an Obama campaign executive.

I Helped Obama Win in 2012. Now Trump Is Using the Same Playbook.


Trump is definitely in general campaign mode, has been since Jan 2017.

A lot can happen between now & fall 2020. Definitely some storm clouds on the horizon, economically.

[LA Ute]

The Democratic Candidates Are in a Bubble on Immigration

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/andrew-sullivan-democrats-are-in-a-bubble-on-immigration.html


There is now a photograph that sums up everything wrong about America’s broken and overwhelmed immigration system. You’ve seen it, and it is hard to let it leave the mind or the conscience. Together with the accounts of horrifying abuse of children in detention — and “abuse” is not hyperbole — we can see the crisis as it is. We can no longer look away.

The starkness of the crisis is a good thing, though. Until now, many have denied that any crisis existed at all. They have, in fact, denied that the highest levels of mass immigration since the Bush years are an issue at all. As Byron York has noted, Speaker Pelosi called the arrival of close to a million asylum seekers “a fake crisis”; Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said that hundreds of thousands of men, women, and many children, overwhelming any attempt to process them with the current resources, was “a crisis that does not exist.” This included many Never-Trumpers, like Bill Kristol (“a fake crisis”), and Max Boot (“a faux crisis”). The editors of the Washington Post denied the facts reported by their own Nick Miroff, claiming it was “a make-believe crisis.”

None of these people will admit they were gravely mistaken, or that their denial and delay in acting clearly exacerbated the situation. But now that we’re on the same page, the question is: Where do we go with this now?

Yesterday was a sign of real bipartisan progress. The House passed a Senate bill to spend $4.6 billion to relieve the humanitarian crisis and tackle some of the structural inadequacies of the current failed system. The left wing of the Democratic caucus wanted to insist on various restrictions on the use of the $4.6 billion, primarily to ensure that none of it is earmarked (God forbid) for enforcement of the law. The problem with waging a longer fight would be that Congress would break for its July 4 recess having done nothing to help. Pelosi put children before politics, and it’s hard not to admire her humane pragmatism.

So it’s a start. What’s next?

[LA Ute]

Look, if Trump could be president, why not this person?

Marianne Williamson Wants To Win the Presidency With the Power of Love and Miracles
https://reason.com/2019/07/13/marianne-williamson-wants-to-win-the-presidency-with-the-power-of-love-and-miracles/ (https://reason.com/2019/07/13/marianne-williamson-wants-to-win-the-presidency-with-the-power-of-love-and-miracles/)

[U-Ute]

Look, if Trump could be president, why not this person?

Marianne Williamson Wants To Win the Presidency With the Power of Love and Miracles


https://reason.com/2019/07/13/marianne-williamson-wants-to-win-the-presidency-with-the-power-of-love-and-miracles/ (https://reason.com/2019/07/13/marianne-williamson-wants-to-win-the-presidency-with-the-power-of-love-and-miracles/)

I don't feel her supporters are motivated enough. Too busy fiddling with their chakras

[LA Ute]

Autophagy:

2020 Democrats Are Starting to Turn Obama’s Legacy Against Biden

https://www.thedailybeast.com/2020-democrats-are-starting-to-turn-obamas-legacy-against-biden?ref=scroll

[LA Ute]

Are the Democrats jumping off the cliff?

Even more disturbing is how the candidates have taken the bait and gone so far as to criticize and condemn President Barack Obama (https://thehill.com/people/barack-obama), a man with a popularity rating greater than 90 percent among Democrats in virtually all polls. Why in God’s name would these candidates, no matter how liberal, decide it was wise to rip into the former president?

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/456673-are-the-democrats-jumping-off-the-cliff

I don't think so. The eventual candidate will race to the center as soon as she/he is official.

[LA Ute]

The joys of running for president.

https://twitter.com/ryanmiddleton/status/1160977508726185986?s=12

[LA Ute]

Democrat friends, do you think this is a winning position among the independents whose votes the Dems need in order to defeat Trump? Or will the Dem candidates taking this position and others like it just race to the center after they get the nomination? I wonder if they can pull that off. Maybe. Voters do have short memories about such things.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190908/3cb037fe8531b77853eb5d20c0545690.jpg

[Diehard Ute]

Democrat friends, do you think this is a winning position among the independents whose votes the Dems need in order to defeat Trump? Or will the Dem candidates taking this position and others like it just race to the center after they get the nomination? I wonder if they can pull that off. Maybe. Voters do have short memories about such things.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190908/3cb037fe8531b77853eb5d20c0545690.jpg

She’ll just edit her tweet with a sharpie


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[USS Utah]

Could Bill Clinton win the nomination in 2020?

I'm asking for a friend.

[mUUser]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/04/us/elections/results-iowa-caucus.html


I guess this is it for Iowa. I can probably live with Buttigieg, but not Sanders/Warren. If I have to vote Trump to keep out Sanders, I will. Utah will go Trump no matter what......but still.

[sancho]

Klobuchar making her move! I think the most interesting election scenario is Trump vs Klobuchar. Then all the people who have said "give me a moderate, and I'll vote against Trump" will be put to the test. I imagine they will still vote for Trump, but it will be interesting to see. Any other likely scenario just has Trump vs a progressive. We know what happens there - the red vote red, and the blue vote blue with turnout in the swing states deciding the election.

[concerned]

Klobuchar making her move! I think the most interesting election scenario is Trump vs Klobuchar. Then all the people who have said "give me a moderate, and I'll vote against Trump" will be put to the test. I imagine they will still vote for Trump, but it will be interesting to see. Any other likely scenario just has Trump vs a progressive. We know what happens there - the red vote red, and the blue vote blue with turnout in the swing states deciding the election.

My wife was in a meeting with Mitt Romney a couple of weeks ago. He said that Trump would beat Bernie or Liz in a landslide, but the Klobuchar would beat Trump decisively.

[LA Ute]

I posted this on UF.net too. Here are a pair of interesting op-eds from both the left and center. One is from Jonathon Chait, a decidedly left-leaning pundit and analyst, and the other is from Megan McCardle, a true centrist who is very critical of Trump and writes often about economic and political issues. I really enjoy her work because she is remarkably objective, IMO.

Joe Biden’s Campaign Was a Disaster for Liberalism and the Democratic Party


https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/bidens-campaign-was-a-disaster-for-liberalism-and-his-party.html


This Amy Klobuchar could beat Trump. Where has she been all year? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/11/this-amy-klobuchar-could-beat-trump-where-has-she-been-all-year/)


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/11/this-amy-klobuchar-could-beat-trump-where-has-she-been-all-year/

[mUUser]

Klobuchar would be an interesting candidate. She was the lone democrat to approach the Kavanaugh hearings with any sense of fairness or dignity. If Bernie doesn't get the nomination this time, there's more than one talking head who believe a bunch of Bernie supporters will essentially give the democrat party the bird and stay home on election day. They may be able to screw him over once, but not twice.

[Scorcho]

I was at a function with my daughter and about 10 of her friends the other day (all 18-21 year olds), and I was surprised that 2/3 rds of them were all in on Bernie Sanders.

My unscientific poll. :)

[sancho]

My wife was in a meeting with Mitt Romney a couple of weeks ago. He said that Trump would beat Bernie or Liz in a landslide, but the Klobuchar would beat Trump decisively.

It's hard to imagine a "landslide" with the way the past few presidential elections have gone. I think the Democrats could run a potato, the Republicans could run a yam, and each party would get 45% of the vote and it would come down to the swing states.

[mUUser]

I was at a function with my daughter and about 10 of her friends the other day (all 18-21 year olds), and I was surprised that 2/3 rds of them were all in on Bernie Sanders.

My unscientific poll. :)



Could Bernie really happen? I was thinking the choices couldn't be worse than Trump vs Hillary, but, Bernie would be worse by ten-fold.

[sancho]

Could Bernie really happen? I was thinking the choices couldn't be worse than Trump vs Hillary, but, Bernie would be worse by ten-fold.

No candidate has ever been worse than Trump. Bernie at least cares about something and can interact with others. I think health care and higher ed reform are both issues worthy of conversation, and a Sanders presidency would hopefully force those conversations.

AOC had it right when she more or less said last week that Bernie is aiming left to hit the mark.

That said, I still have Bernie below Klobuchar and Warren..maybe Buttigieg too.

[chrisrenrut]

No candidate has ever been worse than Trump. Bernie at least cares about something and can interact with others. I think health care and higher ed reform are both issues worthy of conversation, and a Sanders presidency would hopefully force those conversations.

AOC had it right when she more or less said last week that Bernie is aiming left to hit the mark.

That said, I still have Bernie below Klobuchar and Warren..maybe Buttigieg too.

do you remember the stock market bounce after Trump was elected? Imag8ne that in reverse if Warren or Bernie wins. I’m hoping for buttigieg, Klobuchar, or even Bloomberg to rid us of trump, but not see the economy tank.

[sancho]

do you remember the stock market bounce after Trump was elected? Imag8ne that in reverse if Warren or Bernie wins. I’m hoping for buttigieg, Klobuchar, or even Bloomberg to rid us of trump, but not see the economy tank.

Sounds like our wish lists are basically the same.

I think it's amusing when people pretend that anyone has any control or influence over the economy. That thing is 100 million miles beyond being a chaotic system. Talk about the butterfly effect.

[chrisrenrut]

Sounds like our wish lists are basically the same.

I think it's amusing when people pretend that anyone has any control or influence over the economy. That thing is 100 million miles beyond being a chaotic system. Talk about the butterfly effect.

It’s chaotic, schizophrenic, etc. But it is still subject to some simple forces. The market is the cumulative of stocks of corporations. When a business friendly president takes office, the market will go up. Put in rabid anti-corporate presidents like Warren or Sanders, and what do you think will happen.

[Irving Washington]

do you remember the stock market bounce after Trump was elected? Imag8ne that in reverse if Warren or Bernie wins. I’m hoping for buttigieg, Klobuchar, or even Bloomberg to rid us of trump, but not see the economy tank.
What will happen to the Republican Party after four more years of Trump? Would the economic impact of Bernie winning be worse if the usual gridlock in Congress remains? What would the long term repercussions be?

[chrisrenrut]

What will happen to the Republican Party after four more years of Trump? Would the economic impact of Bernie winning be worse if the usual gridlock in Congress remains? What would the long term repercussions be?

Great questions. They are complex. My point was just about the initial market reaction to electing a socialists or anti-corporate candidate.

[sancho]

As BYU-haters, we should all be rooting for Sanders'/Warren's free college plan. BYU is riding high on dirt cheap tuition, but if free college is everywhere, there is no need for BYU (if there ever was a need). Like when you make sure a welfare recipient is getting everything they can out of the government before dipping into fast offerings, we could encourage students to go to their local flagship instead of forcing a million students into Rexburg.

Also, why can we not compromise on these things? Why does it need to be free? Why not use taxes to set in-state tuition at a level where someone can work themselves through school? Make it a function of cost of living and minimum wage. Assume part time work during a semester and full time work in the summer. Tie that government funding to a requirement that schools only spend x% of their moneys on admin, staff, and services to try to curb the arms race to the poshest dorms and nicest gyms and most support staff.

[mUUser]

Two of the better candidates -- Klobuchar & Buttigieg -- are done.

So what are we left with now? Sanders, Warren, Biden and Bloomberg. Slim pickings..

[mUUser]

For all intents and purposes, we're down to Sanders and Biden after Super Tuesday.

[mUUser]

https://www.ksl.com/article/46739498/sanders-drops-2020-bid-leaving-biden-as-likely-nominee

Game on, I guess.

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