I learned in Church today

[LA Ute]

Not long ago the Givens' addressed this in a Q&A session and they referred to it as an ascension, rather than a fall, which I can get behind. I think it is challenging for people to not speak of it in negative tones because they call it a fall. I also find it interesting that with the benefit of thousands of years of hindsight, we all say "this is the only way they could know joy and sorrow." I'm not convinced they had any idea of what was on the other side of their choice until they got there.

I don't think they did, but it's clear that afterwards they were very glad they made the decision.

This seems to be the most recent and most definitive statement on the subject: (http://www.lds.org/ensign/1993/11/the-great-plan-of-happiness)


For reasons that have not been revealed, this transition, or “fall,” could not happen without a transgression—an exercise of moral agency amounting to a willful breaking of a law (see Moses 6:59 (http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses/6.59?lang=eng#58)). This would be a planned offense, a formality to serve an eternal purpose. The Prophet Lehi explained that “if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen” (2 Ne. 2:22 (http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.22?lang=eng#21)), but would have remained in the same state in which he was created.

“And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin” (2 Ne. 2:23 (http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.23?lang=eng#22)).

But the Fall was planned, Lehi concludes, because “all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things” (2 Ne. 2:24 (http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.24?lang=eng#23)).


It was Eve who first transgressed the limits of Eden in order to initiate the conditions of mortality. Her act, whatever its nature, was formally a transgression but eternally a glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life. Adam showed his wisdom by doing the same. And thus Eve and “Adam fell that men might be” (2 Ne. 2:25 (http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.25?lang=eng#24)).


Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall (see Bruce R. McConkie, “Eve and the Fall,” Woman, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1979, pp. 67–68). Joseph Smith (http://mormon.org/joseph-smith) taught that it was not a “sin,” because God had decreed it (see The Words of Joseph Smith, ed. Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook, Provo, Utah: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1980, p. 63). Brigham Young declared, “We should never blame Mother Eve, not the least” (in Journal of Discourses, 13:145). Elder Joseph Fielding Smith said: “I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin. … This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin … for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 1:114–15).


This suggested contrast between a sin and a transgression reminds us of the careful wording in the second article of faith: “We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression” (emphasis added). It also echoes a familiar distinction in the law. Some acts, like murder, are crimes because they are inherently wrong. Other acts, like operating without a license, are crimes only because they are legally prohibited. Under these distinctions, the act that produced the Fall was not a sin—inherently wrong—but a transgression—wrong because it was formally prohibited. These words are not always used to denote something different, but this distinction seems meaningful in the circumstances of the Fall.


Modern revelation shows that our first parents understood the necessity of the Fall. Adam declared, “Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God” (Moses 5:10 (http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses/5.10?lang=eng#9)).


Here's one interesting take from one woman's point of view. (http://mormonscholarstestify.org/1718/valerie-hudson-cassler)

[LA Ute]

Yes. Most of Christianity just has the two creation stories in Genesis 1 and 2 as scripture. However, Mormon's arguably have 5 creation stories: Genesis 1, Genesis 2, Moses 2, and Abraham 4, and the Temple ceremony. There are also other Mormon-centric ideas about Adam and Eve: prophecy that Adam will come back at the last days to prepare the earth for Jesus' return (the gathering of the the 144,000 at adam-ondi-amen (spelling?)); sealing families back to Adam and Eve; Adam-god doctrine, etc. Combining all of these teachings and ideas together make it very difficult to view Adam and Eve as anything other than literal persons.

I think you're right that we think Adam and Eve were real persons. We clearly don't teach the creation took seven 24-hour days (it could have taken millions of years and that would still be consistent with what we believe has been revealed), and IMO we don't have any definitive teaching on exactly how the creation took place. There's room to believe God literally formed Adam and Eve, and also room to believe they evolved.

[UTEopia]

I have a difficult time putting God in a box and saying that things could only have happened a certain way. God is God and could therefore have conceived of any number of ways for man to become mortal and in need of a Savior. Giving Adam and Eve contradictory orders and requiring them to choose between the two appears to be how it happened, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was the only way or even the preferred way.

[jrj84105]

I think you're right that we think Adam and Eve were real persons. We clearly don't teach the creation took seven 24-hour days (it could have taken millions of years and that would still be consistent with what we believe has been revealed), and IMO we don't have any definitive teaching on exactly how the creation took place. There's room to believe God literally formed Adam and Eve, and also room to believe they evolved.

What about Noah and the Ark? Is that story is still open to being taken as figurative or do most Mormons interpret that story as literal? If your belief system allows alternatively figurative or literal interpretations of biblical narratives, this one has to go in the figurative bin, right?

[LA Ute]

What about Noah and the Ark? Is that story is still open to being taken as figurative or do most Mormons interpret that story as literal? If your belief system allows alternatively figurative or literal interpretations of biblical narratives, this one has to go in the figurative bin, right?

I don't know. What I can say is that we do believe Noah was a real person and that he built an ark that saved his family while the wicked perished in a great flood. Beyond that I have not ventured to study. (I also think it's kind of futile to engage in a lot of scientific study of events that are on their face supernatural. The Resurrection, for example; visitations of angels, etc.)

Here's a decent summary of what has been taught about Noah's Ark:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_science/Global_or_local_Flood/Statements

I think a lot of the Old Testament is allegorical or told in the manner of the people writing at the time. To me personally, what matters is the principle to be learned from the story.

[Mormon Red Death]

I learned that one of our latter day "arks" is the word of wisdom. The teacher failed to recognize the irony that noah was a drunk.

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[Mormon Red Death]

I also learned that paying tithing on line is just for special people (even though I am not particulary special and have been doing it for two years now). Coincidentally I also learned who received their bonuses as I was putting in people's donations into the computer.

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[LA Ute]

I also learned that paying tithing on line is just for special people (even though I am not particulary special and have been doing it for two years now).

Anyone can do it. We do. All we had to do was sign up. Understandably, the church doesn't seem to care about how you pay and wants to remove any impediments to doing so. Think "Show me the money!!" spoken in a reverent voice.

[UTEopia]

I also learned that paying tithing on line is just for special people (even though I am not particulary special and have been doing it for two years now). Coincidentally I also learned who received their bonuses as I was putting in people's donations into the computer.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2


I would like to pay on-line using my credit card so that I can earn points. Is that possible?

[Mormon Red Death]

Anyone can do it. We do. All we had to do was sign up. Understandably, the church doesn't seem to care about how you pay and wants to remove any impediments to doing so. Think "Show me the money!!" spoken in a reverent voice.

The Church does care. If they didn't they would make it more out there

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[LA Ute]

The Church does care. If they didn't they would make it more out there

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Maybe. All I had to do was ask.

[Sullyute]

The Church does care.

I agree.

[Diehard Ute]

Just thought I'd let everyone know I happily accept all major credit cards....

[Applejack]

I learned a lot about evolution in Church today - primary to be specific. We had a lesson on "God made man in his image." One nerdy little primary girl raised her hand and said, "I'm always confused by that. We are very closely related to the apes, genetically. So how can we come from Apes and be God's image?"

Silence

Then another little girl said, "Who says we are related to apes? Scientists? Psah."

[Sullyute]

After about the 5th time i said no to letting my six year old daughter sit by her friend during sacrament meeting, she said the following, "Dad, you are acting like Satan. You are not letting me choose what I want to do, but making me do what you want to do." :blink: I didn't really have much of a comeback as she had a good point. I still said no to the 6th request.

[Damage U]

Not to highjack this thread but the sentiment of your six year old has increasingly weighed heavily in my political way thinking this past couple of years. I just haven't figured out how much, if any I want to pay for other peoples choices.

It also looks like you better keep a close eye on your daughter. She sounds like she thinks she has it all figured out already. Good Luck with her.

[Scratch]

I learned that it's OK to flirt with the sister missionaries.

[UTEopia]

I learned that it's OK to flirt with the sister missionaries.

It can be embarrassing if one of them slaps you. :rimshot:

[UBlender]

This was a new one for me. Today my wife was the penultimate speaker in sacrament meeting with a musical number scheduled between her and the final speaker. My wife did a great job and sat down. As the 7-8 men in the musical number were in the process of gathering on the stand, an eight-year old girl (sitting near the front) who was baptized yesterday, jumped up, ran to the pulpit, bore her testimony and then went back and sat down without giving it a second thought. A few puzzled looks were exchanged, but nobody said a word and the musical number ensued, followed by the final speaker and everything wrapping up as if nothing ever happened. Kind of funny, it was my first ever voluntary testimony during a sacrament meeting other than fast and testimony meeting.

[Rocker Ute]

I learned today that according the the First Presidency, "... caucus meetings are a grassroots level of political involvement in Utah and are best served by a bored (sic) representation of Utah Citizens..."

I think he meant 'broad', but I liked his version better.

[Scorcho]

Stake Pres. spoke about the Sacrament in an early morning Priesthood Meeting this morning. He referenced the importance of the dress of those administiring and passing the Sacrament and gave a great example. He talked about struggling to keep his thoughts on track (like we all do) during the passing of the bread. The Deacon that brought him the tray looked sharp, but was wearing a Bart Simpson tie. Our S.P. confessed that he is a big fan of the Simpsons, but seeing that tie at that time completely distracted him from the purpose of that ordinance.

I normally scoff at any mention of should / shouldn'ts with Sunday attire, but I agree with him. Too many times I see someone (usually an adult) with a statement tie (Sports Teams, Colleges, Cartoon Characters) and think maybe this isn't the ideal place to be wearing that.

[Solon]

Stake Pres. spoke about the Sacrament in an early morning Priesthood Meeting this morning. He referenced the importance of the dress of those administiring and passing the Sacrament and gave a great example. He talked about struggling to keep his thoughts on track (like we all do) during the passing of the bread. The Deacon that brought him the tray looked sharp, but was wearing a Bart Simpson tie. Our S.P. confessed that he is a big fan of the Simpsons, but seeing that tie at that time completely distracted him from the purpose of that ordinance.

I normally scoff at any mention of should / shouldn'ts with Sunday attire, but I agree with him. Too many times I see someone (usually an adult) with a statement tie (Sports Teams, Colleges, Cartoon Characters) and think maybe this isn't the ideal place to be wearing that.

Couldn't we argue that having 12-year-old kids administer the flesh and blood of Jesus trivializes the ritual?
Perhaps if the LDS church leaders wanted people to take the sacrament more seriously, they would get rid of the plastic cups and the teenaged administration.
There's something to be said for receiving communion from a priest. Feels a little more solemn.

[Sullyute]

Stake Pres. spoke about the Sacrament in an early morning Priesthood Meeting this morning. He referenced the importance of the dress of those administiring and passing the Sacrament and gave a great example. He talked about struggling to keep his thoughts on track (like we all do) during the passing of the bread. The Deacon that brought him the tray looked sharp, but was wearing a Bart Simpson tie. Our S.P. confessed that he is a big fan of the Simpsons, but seeing that tie at that time completely distracted him from the purpose of that ordinance.

I normally scoff at any mention of should / shouldn'ts with Sunday attire, but I agree with him. Too many times I see someone (usually an adult) with a statement tie (Sports Teams, Colleges, Cartoon Characters) and think maybe this isn't the ideal place to be wearing that.

I am more distracted by the floods (I realize kids grow fast at that age) with white socks than I am with a Disney or Minecraft tie.

[Scorcho]

Couldn't we argue that having 12-year-old kids administer the flesh and blood of Jesus trivializes the ritual?
Perhaps if the LDS church leaders wanted people to take the sacrament more seriously, they would get rid of the plastic cups and the teenaged administration.
There's something to be said for receiving communion from a priest. Feels a little more solemn.

fair point.

I also think having the Sacrament Weekly might be too often. In Old Testament times thay had it once a year.

[wally]

Couldn't we argue that having 12-year-old kids administer the flesh and blood of Jesus trivializes the ritual?
Perhaps if the LDS church leaders wanted people to take the sacrament more seriously, they would get rid of the plastic cups and the teenaged administration.
There's something to be said for receiving communion from a priest. Feels a little more solemn.

I know that you are making a point here and that it is probably not reflective of your own opinion, but you made me think about it again (congrats!). I have decided after thought, that I really like the 12 YOs passing the sacrament. Even in Bart Simpson ties. Even with shirts half-way untucked. So long as they carry themselves as reverently as they personally can. I like seeing stuff untidy at church. I am not saying deliberate, lazy, or brazen untidiness, but I like reminders that we are all a little like that 12 YO with his shirt untucked. Just doing what we believe is right as best and genuinely as we can, and hoping that it is enough.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Perhaps to enhance the effects of the ritual we should kneel before consuming Jesus' flesh.

[NorthwestUteFan]

HC speaker talked about depression and anxiety, mentioning that they can be very difficult to cope with and that one cannot 'will' their way through the disease. (The talk ia going very well so far).

But prayer and priesthood blessings are effective. In particular priesthood blessing from priesthood leaders, and the Stake President is particularly effective. (Hmmm).

He may just as well said that the Stake President has a greatly elevated level of Midi-Chlorians in his blood, and that is why he is so effective in his use of The Force.

We had a family vote, and were unanimous in our decision to skip the rest of church and go out to brunch.

[chrisrenrut]

HC speaker talked about depression and anxiety, mentioning that they can be very difficult to cope with and that one cannot 'will' their way through the disease. (The talk ia going very well so far).

But prayer and priesthood blessings are effective. In particular priesthood blessing from priesthood leaders, and the Stake President is particularly effective. (Hmmm).

He may just as well said that the Stake President has a greatly elevated level of Midi-Chlorians in his blood, and that is why he is so effective in his use of The Force.

We had a family vote, and were unanimous in our decision to skip the rest of church and go out to brunch.

My guess is he has some kind of beef with the stake president. He is basically telling everyone who feels depressed or anxious to contact the stake president for a blessing.

[Diehard Ute]

HC speaker talked about depression and anxiety, mentioning that they can be very difficult to cope with and that one cannot 'will' their way through the disease. (The talk ia going very well so far).

But prayer and priesthood blessings are effective. In particular priesthood blessing from priesthood leaders, and the Stake President is particularly effective. (Hmmm).

He may just as well said that the Stake President has a greatly elevated level of Midi-Chlorians in his blood, and that is why he is so effective in his use of The Force.

We had a family vote, and were unanimous in our decision to skip the rest of church and go out to brunch.

Be wary of cylinder like objects under his suit coat

[DrumNFeather]

We had one of those Stake Conference meetings piped in from SLC. One of the speakers shared a story about he and his friends who played baseball frequently as kids...and how they'd hit the ball into this nasty old woman's yard, and that she never gave them back...until one day (you see where this is going). I leaned over to my buddy and said: "He's just retelling the plot of the Sandlot." We had a nice chuckle over that.

[Sullyute]

All Easter, all day yesterday. The youth topic for the month is the restoration, but when I went to prepare my lesson this week, I saw that they had added an Easter lesson to the month. Someone's listening to you, Northwest.

Glad to hear it! Sunday school and Priesthood were non-Easter in our ward. Sacrament was Easter themed. There were two young adult talks on Easter and a Easter number from the choir. I am not sure what the High Councilman spoke on (I assume Easter) as we left before he got up.

[LA Ute]

I'm amazed that some wards treat Easter Sunday just like any other. We lucked out. There were four speakers in Sacrament meeting. They each took 5 minutes with a short reading followed by their own thoughts. The readings were excellent and the comments heartfelt, articulate and spiritual. They were interspersed with musical numbers: a flute/piano duet of "A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief;" a beautiful solo of "There Is A Green Hill Far Away," sung like a ballad; and an octet singing "He Is Risen." A great meeting. Sunday School was about the first Passover, which lent itself to an obvious Easter discussion. I was with the YM and YW and they talked about Easter. My wife and I agreed that all in all it was one of the best Easter Sundays we've ever had.

[mUUser]

My primary lesson was on Isaac and Rebekah. Hey, just following the playbook given me. Sac Mtg was more Easter oriented, with a couple of talks centered on the Easter Bunny. Obviously sung He is Risen and Christ the Lord is Risen Today.

It's all true except the Easter Bunny part. Talks were Resurrected oriented.

[mUUser]

Most importantly my daughter came home from college for the weekend, so didn't really care what happened from noon till 3p. I'd have been happy at church yesterday regardless of the program.

[Rocker Ute]

The Easter Bunny ditches out on Sunday school each year to plant Easter eggs. So I suppose that he learned in-ish church today that it was warm enough to melt some of the chocolate of the eggs left in the sun for about an hour. He also learned that the 10yo is starting to get a little jaded and wants more of a challenge. Seeing some of the first signs of adolescence creep into my household made me kind of sad.

We have a music director in our ward who is an excellent musician. He puts together an incredible program with lots of great music (and no this isn't just me being nice, it really is good) and a couple of touching talks. I think his talent really comes from the fact that he selects music that is within the talent range of his choir and musicians. All of my life of listening to mostly poor local choirs trying to sing like professionals in ranges they can't hope to achieve or sustain. Sometimes simple is sublime.

[NorthwestUteFan]

This picture made me laugh.

Sac mtg was very nice with talks about the Resurrection, and a sweet song from the children in Primary. One highlight was the YMP starting his talk after the youth speaker with the words, "Wow, (youth speaker's name), that was actually a great talk!". I don't think he meant to sound so incredulous. He proceeded to expound on whatever he found on Wikipedia under the title of "Jesus' Last Week".

Sunday School was some dreck-filled lesson from the Old Testament about who begat whom...

Priesthood discussed the wonderful, trusting relationship between Hyrum and Joseph Smith, and how we can build a greater testimony of Joseph Smith.

We would have left after Sac Mtg, but my wife had to teach in Relief Society. After church she said she wants to go to a local Catholic or Orthodox church for Easter next year.

[Scorcho]

I've said this before, but these Bible Videos on LDS.Org are exceptional. So inspiring.

[wuapinmon]

The HCman today told the EQ that home teachers should bring their families' problems to the quorum so that they can all put their heads together and come up with ideas of how to help them as a quorum. When someone pointed out that perhaps it was better to keep most things private, he insisted that working together on problems was the Lord's way.

[Rocker Ute]

The HCman today told the EQ that home teachers should bring their families' problems to the quorum so that they can all put their heads together and come up with ideas of how to help them as a quorum. When someone pointed out that perhaps it was better to keep most things private, he insisted that working together on problems was the Lord's way.

High councilmen and seminary teachers... where bad ideas and false doctrines are born.

[LA Ute]

In Sunday School, when we are reading the story of Balaam in Numbers 22, we call his beast of burden an "ass," as written; but when we're not reading, but discussing the story in class, we call the beast a "donkey." :)

[Brian]

Not completely on topic with this thread, but does anyone know the name of guy doing joseph smith firesides in utah? first name is Garrett, if I remember...

[mUUser]

Went to a bbq at our friends house yesterday, who also had the missionaries over. All were active LDS. All the adults were gathered around the table and the missionaries would ask questions, and the adults would go around the table and offer answers. One of the questions was, "do you feel blessings when you follow the prophet?". I thought I'd offer an honest and complete answer this go-around and said I'm not one to claim I follow the prophet in faith because I carefully pick and choose which commands and counsel I follow. Plus, not only do I feel blessed when I follow the prophet, I also feel blessed when I don't. I guess I just generally feel like I have a blessed life. For example, I said, I attended my son's baseball tournament this weekend and missed church, breaking the sabbath in all its glory. And having done so, I felt blessed. I got to spend 3 days with my son, and connect with him on an activity we both enjoy. In fact, I did the same thing the weekend before, and have the next 3 weekends scheduled for the same. I'm not following the prophets counsel but feel truly blessed. And, when I get the opportunity to return to church, I know I'll feel that attending church for that week was a blessing as well.

As you can imagine, it created quite a bit of discussion on "following the prophet". I couldn't admit I felt greater blessings and joy when following the prophets counsel (in this case), but I enjoyed the discussion a lot, and frankly, was liberating for me to admit out loud I only followed on the things I wanted and disregarded what I wanted. Facts are facts.

[chrisrenrut]

Went to a bbq at our friends house yesterday, who also had the missionaries over. All were active LDS. All the adults were gathered around the table and the missionaries would ask questions, and the adults would go around the table and offer answers. One of the questions was, "do you feel blessings when you follow the prophet?". I thought I'd offer an honest and complete answer this go-around and said I'm not one to claim I follow the prophet in faith because I carefully pick and choose which commands and counsel I follow. Plus, not only do I feel blessed when I follow the prophet, I also feel blessed when I don't. I guess I just generally feel like I have a blessed life. For example, I said, I attended my son's baseball tournament this weekend and missed church, breaking the sabbath in all its glory. And having done so, I felt blessed. I got to spend 3 days with my son, and connect with him on an activity we both enjoy. In fact, I did the same thing the weekend before, and have the next 3 weekends scheduled for the same. I'm not following the prophets counsel but feel truly blessed. And, when I get the opportunity to return to church, I know I'll feel that attending church for that week was a blessing as well.

As you can imagine, it created quite a bit of discussion on "following the prophet". I couldn't admit I felt greater blessings and joy when following the prophets counsel (in this case), but I enjoyed the discussion a lot, and frankly, was liberating for me to admit out loud I only followed on the things I wanted and disregarded what I wanted. Facts are facts.

If you hadn't redirected the conversation and gone with a standard answer, I bet their next question would have started with "Will you . . ."

[DrumNFeather]

We had an excellent lesson in EQ today based off of a Neal A. Maxwell talk from several years back called the Hope of the Atonement. It is a talk I'd never read before, but at least to me, it was a pretty powerful lesson on hope in general. Anyway, if you have a few minutes, might be worth the read: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/10/hope-through-the-atonement-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng&query=hope+of+the+atonement

[LA Ute]

Thanks, D&F. For some reason I don't remember that talk. Good stuff:


Genuine, ultimate hope helps us to be more loving even while the love of many waxes cold (see Matt. 24:12). We are to be more holy, even as the world ripens in iniquity; more courteous and patient in a coarsening and curt world, and to be of strong hearts even when the hearts of others fail them (see Moro. 10:22).

[LA Ute]

We attended church in the Manhattan First Ward yesterday. One of the speakers touched on how an excessive focus on subgroups we each belong to (political parties, TBMs vs. progmos, etc.) can lead to various type of "ites." He referred to parts of 4th Nephi in that context. I found it to be a valuable insight.

[chrisrenrut]

I learned that a member of our bishopric takes No-Doze before church so he doesn't fall asleep on the stand. It's a good thing the church recently clarified that there is no restriction on caffeine.

[Mormon Red Death]

Fifth Sunday lesson was on building maintenance. My wife told me to be quiet as soon as they announced what the lesson was.

My ward brings in close to million dollars a year in tithing but we can't pay someone to clean the building?

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[jrj84105]

When I was a kid our bishopric (my dad included) paid out of pocket to replace the carpet throughout our building (it was literally held together with duct tape in the main hallways and foyers). The response was to redivide the wards and reassign people to high counselor sort to be a remote branch president of a little town (my dad). Message sent about doing things outside the church's authority.

[LA Ute]

When I was a kid our bishopric (my dad included) paid out of pocket to replace the carpet throughout our building (it was literally held together with duct tape in the main hallways and foyers). The response was to redivide the wards and reassign people to high counselor sort to be a remote branch president of a little town (my dad). Message sent about doing things outside the church's authority.

"Ve haff vays of dealink vith such behavior!"

[Scorcho]

We had a great Priesthood lesson on social media yesterday. It was taken from Elder Uhctdorfs message that we should embrace and not shy away from Facebook, Twitter, etc. Essentially the lesson was that in order to be a true disciple of Christ, that we should use these tools to bear our testimonies and share eternal truths. Too many of us have shy'd away from these tools because we don't want to get involved in the controversial issues of today.

I've never had a Facebook account, but it definitely made me think that I probably should have one and use it to share my beliefs and feelings.

[LA Ute]

I'm planning to work this one into the next lesson I teach in about a month:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcm5vdiHCHE

[Scorcho]

I'm planning to work this one into the next lesson I teach in about a month:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcm5vdiHCHE

very nice, I might have to steal this idea.

[Scorcho]

humble brag. It was a good day.

I home teach a new family in our ward that moved in from Georgia. They have a 17 year old girl that hasn't been on a date before. I've been bugging one of the Priests in my SS class for the last couple of months to ask her out. I found out today that he asked her to Homecoming.

At church today, I talked to the dad and told him I'd heard they were going out together, his eyes watered a little bit as he told me how he had asked her and how excited his daughter was.

[LA Ute]

Bravo, scorch.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I never figured Scorcho would cotton to the Pimp lifestyle...

[Scorcho]

Bravo, scorch.

I probably had less to do with it than my ego wants me to believe, but anyway.

:jig:

[Viking]

humble brag. It was a good day.

I home teach a new family in our ward that moved in from Georgia. They have a 17 year old girl that hasn't been on a date before. I've been bugging one of the Priests in my SS class for the last couple of months to ask her out. I found out today that he asked her to Homecoming.

At church today, I talked to the dad and told him I'd heard they were going out together, his eyes watered a little bit as he told me how he had asked her and how excited his daughter was.

That's awesome. As the father of three very geeky but awesome daughters, we've already had to think about someone not getting asked to prom. My oldest is nearly 6 feet tall!

[Viking]

Saw a mother with a young child with down's syndrome at SLC airport. I don't know how I would deal with that but I did yhink: God bless the mothers of children who they know will never leave their care.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Saw a mother with a young child with down's syndrome at SLC airport. I don't know how I would deal with that but I did yhink: God bless the mothers of children who they know will never leave their care.

Downs syndrome children can present some severe logistical problem for the parents, for 30-60 years, but they make up for it in many ways because they are love monsters. They are entirely without guile.

But that is still a difficult life for the parents. Chances are very high that the child will outlive at least one parent, leaving the surviving parent with a constant companion who is an adult but with the reasoning capacity of a grade school child (or younger).

I do not know whether I could do it.

[chrisrenrut]

Our bishop was talking tonight about how we get "programmed" in the church to do things certain ways. He said he heard this in a talk and was a good illustration:

A primary teacher teaching asked a question to her class of 5 year olds:


"What is small, brown, furry, has a bushy tail, runs up and down trees, and hides nuts to eat during the winter?


The kids were silent. Little Johnny had a confused look on his face. He finally spoke and said:


"I know the answer is supposed to be Jesus, but it sure sounds a lot like a squirrel"!

[Mormon Red Death]

I learned (again) how the lds church wants to take advantage of their members. We signed up to feed the missionaries tonight. That is fine as people fed me while I was on my mission. I take umbrage with them calling this afternoon requesting that I come pick them up. Mind you they have a car (if they didnt that would be different). They really just have to watch their miles due to some cheapskate mission president. They are lucky they talked to my wife as I would told them how rude they sounded.

[Two Utes]

I learned (again) how the lds church wants to take advantage of their members. We signed up to feed the missionaries tonight. That is fine as people fed me while I was on my mission. I take umbrage with them calling this afternoon requesting that I come pick them up. Mind you they have a car (if they didnt that would be different). They really just have to watch their miles due to some cheapskate mission president. They are lucky they talked to my wife as I would told them how rude they sounded.


I'm pretty sure they weren't too busy to walk or take public transit if they couldn't drive their car. But more importantly, you provide a car but they can't use it to drive over to a member's house? Isn't that fellow shipping and isn't that what they are supposed to be doing out there on a mission? The church has a bunch of empty, audacious temples that they have to maintain around the world and yet the missionaries can't spend gas money getting to their free dinner? (since the missionaries mostly pay their own way anyway, I find that even more incredible).

If I wasn't certain that this story was true based upon my own experience, I would tell you that no organization could possibly behave this way.

[LA Ute]

I learned (again) how the lds church wants to take advantage of their members. We signed up to feed the missionaries tonight. That is fine as people fed me while I was on my mission. I take umbrage with them calling this afternoon requesting that I come pick them up. Mind you they have a car (if they didnt that would be different). They really just have to watch their miles due to some cheapskate mission president. They are lucky they talked to my wife as I would told them how rude they sounded.

Call the MP and complain. Stupid rule.

[Two Utes]

Call the MP and complain. Stupid rule.

You do that and he will just rip the elders telling them they needed to find a way to dinner. They will feel bad and guilty. No offense LA, but IMO that would only harm the poor Elders.

[Eddie]

In our area, we are told from the beginning that picking up the elders and getting them to your home and then back again is part of the dinner appointment. (Think of it as picking up your date, I guess.)

The nice thing is, when they then call to tell you that they don't need a ride it seems like you're responsibility has been reduced instead of added to in having them to dinner.

I think it is all about how those expectations are set up from the beginning. When expectations change or are violated, that is when people get frustrated.

[LA Ute]

You do that and he will just rip the elders telling them they needed to find a way to dinner. They will feel bad and guilty. No offense LA, but IMO that would only harm the poor Elders.

Ok. I'm in a better mood now and feel chastened by you and Eddie. I'd just pick them up and murmur softly to myself.

[Eddie]

Our bishop was talking tonight about how we get "programmed" in the church to do things certain ways. He said he heard this in a talk and was a good illustration:

A primary teacher teaching asked a question to her class of 5 year olds:

"What is small, brown, furry, has a bushy tail, runs up and down trees, and hides nuts to eat during the winter?


The kids were silent. Little Johnny had a confused look on his face. He finally spoke and said:


"I know the answer is supposed to be Jesus, but it sure sounds a lot like a squirrel"!

This one belongs in that jokes thread that LA started. I laughed harder at it than the other jokes there.

[Solon]

I have a pretty interesting neighbor. A very good guy who is very devout LDS but open-minded, and he had a good line recently:

"We Mormons sometimes think that, just because we know how to take care of a goldfish, we somehow know everything about the ocean."

JiC knows him - he's a hospital administrator that lives close to me.

Obviously, this applies to all religions, and to all sorts of contexts, secular & sacred alike.
I just thought it was a nicely turned phrase.

[LA Ute]

I have a pretty interesting neighbor. A very good guy who is very devout LDS but open-minded, and he had a good line recently:

"We Mormons sometimes think that, just because we know how to take care of a goldfish, we somehow know everything about the ocean."

JiC knows him - he's a hospital administrator that lives close to me.

Obviously, this applies to all religions, and to all sorts of contexts, secular & sacred alike.
I just thought it was a nicely turned phrase.

Brilliant.

[UtahsMrSports]

wow its been a while for this thread.......

Anyway, in the "this had great intentions but ended poorly" category, we had the four moms with missionaries out speak in SM yesterday. The first one ended with half an hour left in the meeting and with three of these left plus a primary musical, I knew id be in for a long day. Oh, we also have SM last. Fortunately, by the time the fourth mom got up to speak she realized people were anxious to get home, (meeting was already about 5 minutes past and we still had a closing hymn/prayer/youth passing out mothers day treats to go) so she just said a quick testimony and sat down.

[chrisrenrut]

We had our high school seniors talk, all with the topic of "Moms". A couple were good, a couple were what you would expect from nervous 18 year olds.

One kid was really nervous. After blessing the sacrament, he went and sat with his family instead of on the stand (making the councilor conducting nervous). But he came up at his appointed time. He used the standard sacrament meeting talk opening, reading the definition of mother. But the source he cited was "The Urban Dictionary defines mother as. . . ". I audibly said "Uh oh", and my wife asked what was wrong. But he read a pretty sweet definition of mothers.

I had to see, so I tried to pull up urbandictionary.com, and to my surprise the church wifi network didn't have it blocked. I guess maybe the bishops and Stake prez might need to use it to look up some of the things they hear about in their interviews? I also didn't see the definition he read, and had to quickly shut the page lest someone look over my shoulder, because the definition and similar words were not appropriate for the setting. Maybe I heard him wrong, or perhaps it was just a fruedian slip on his part.

[Sullyute]

Oh, we also have SM last.

We also have sacrament last, but I learned yesterday that our ward will be going SM first starting next month (under first presidency orders, says our SP and bishop). It will be interesting to see how that changes things if at all.

[LA Ute]

We have had SM first for years now and it works out pretty nicely. Going overtime is much less common, I guess because people know there are other meetings to get to.

[UtahsMrSports]

We also have sacrament last, but I learned yesterday that our ward will be going SM first starting next month (under first presidency orders, says our SP and bishop). It will be interesting to see how that changes things if at all.

I am hopeful that our ward and stake go this route also. Now that we are established where we live, it works out fine. But that first time at church was a nightmare, having to figure out where different classes were meeting, to add to the fact that you know, there is stress in just being new. I much prefer SM first, where you can approach a bishopric member after the meeting and get them to point you in the right direction.

[UBlender]

We moved into a ward with SM last a little over a year ago. I expected to hate it but must say that I have actually liked it quite a bit. The main reason is that I have three little kids. The older two are in primary and nursery and seem to get their energy out quite well prior to SM and are therefore much less restless through SM than they used to be when it was first. I had also worried about the increased likelihood of going over time but it has never happened. Everyone seems really good about knowing that we need to be done on time. EQ also seems to be a lot easier with better involvement when everyone is not checked out and ready to be home for the day. If the church is directing everyone to have SM first then I will miss the current setup.

[NorthwestUteFan]

SM last is great for people in Nursery or in Primary. When the kids are worn out from two hours of church they get sent in to be with their parents for the final hour.

SM first is a nightmare in Nursery, and twice as bad on Fast Sunday when the kids are Hangry.

What really needs to happen is the church somehow needs to find a way to cut away at least one hour of meetings. Two hours is about the Max that anybody should have to listen to a teacher read straight from the manual.

[Rocker Ute]

SM last is great for people in Nursery or in Primary. When the kids are worn out from two hours of church they get sent in to be with their parents for the final hour.

SM first is a nightmare in Nursery, and twice as bad on Fast Sunday when the kids are Hangry.

What really needs to happen is the church somehow needs to find a way to cut away at least one hour of meetings. Two hours is about the Max that anybody should have to listen to a teacher read straight from the manual.

You make 18 month old kids fast? No wonder you are angry at the church.

[Scorcho]

I think some of you are failing to see the beauty of primary/nursery. You drop the kids off for 50 minutes of ME time.

Nachos, sex, NFL all have the Sabbath day seal of approval.

[UTEopia]

I think some of you are failing to see the beauty of primary/nursery. You drop the kids off for 50 minutes of ME time.

Nachos, sex, NFL all have the Sabbath day seal of approval.

When my wife and I were first married and living in San Diego, she was in the Primary Presidency and on a regular basis an inactive family in the Ward would drop their kids off in the nursery and Primary and go shopping. We has Sacrament meeting first, so they basically received 2 hours of free baby-sitting.

[NorthwestUteFan]

You make 18 month old kids fast? No wonder you are angry at the church.

If your kids are tired and cranky I would rather have you deal with them yourself.

3-hours of church is tough on an adult. But it is nearly impossible for young children.

[wally]

I think some of you are failing to see the beauty of primary/nursery. You drop the kids off for 50 minutes of ME time.

Nachos, sex, NFL all have the Sabbath day seal of approval.

If all at the same time, then George Costanza would be proud!!

[Rocker Ute]

I guess this belongs here... My kids are getting out Monopoly to play, my wife knowing I'm not a big fan of games and my family didn't really play a lot of board games asks, "Did you guys have Monopoly when you were a kid?"

"No, but I think someone gave us a game called Mormonopoly that we played a few times..."

My wife starts laughing. "Mormonopoly? What was it like?"

I respond, "I don't really remember much except when you won you owned City Creek mall..."

"Ha ha. You think you are sooooo funny..."

So who else here had Mormonopoly? Ours was homemade, likely a Relief Society project.

[UtahsMrSports]

Got word that our schedule will be changing from Sacrament meeting last to Sacrament meeting first come August. Apparently, the guidance has come from high up the chain that this needs to happen wherever possible.

Has anyone else received this news?

[UBlender]

Got word that our schedule will be changing from Sacrament meeting last to Sacrament meeting first come August. Apparently, the guidance has come from high up the chain that this needs to happen wherever possible.

Has anyone else received this news?

Yep, it's church wide. We got it too. Just when I had decided that I liked the Sac-last schedule they have to go and change it.

[chrisrenrut]

Got word that our schedule will be changing from Sacrament meeting last to Sacrament meeting first come August. Apparently, the guidance has come from high up the chain that this needs to happen wherever possible.

Has anyone else received this news?

We got the directive. But right now, every building in our stake has 3 wards, so I think they are going to wait until the first of the year to make the change. That is when we normaly rotate meeting times.

[Sullyute]

Got word that our schedule will be changing from Sacrament meeting last to Sacrament meeting first come August. Apparently, the guidance has come from high up the chain that this needs to happen wherever possible.

Has anyone else received this news?

We got the ultimatum too. We change to Sacrament first starting next week. Also I learned that Sacrament meeting is the most important funeral we will ever attend.

[LA Ute]

Got word that our schedule will be changing from Sacrament meeting last to Sacrament meeting first come August. Apparently, the guidance has come from high up the chain that this needs to happen wherever possible.

Has anyone else received this news?

It's been like that forever in L.A., so we are used to it. I'm still kinda surprised that it's being pushed on a broad basis now.

[Sullyute]

Well, it was Father's day yesterday so the talks were focused on.... keeping the Sabbath day holy! Missionary and High Councilman spoke with neither a mention of fathers. :swear: The primary kids did sing, but had some weird song with two full lines about grandmothers :confused:. We had great talks for Mother's day, so not sure who messed up yesterday.

[Rocker Ute]

Well, it was Father's day yesterday so the talks were focused on.... keeping the Sabbath day holy! Missionary and High Councilman spoke with neither a mention of fathers. :swear: The primary kids did sing, but had some weird song with two full lines about grandmothers :confused:. We had great talks for Mother's day, so not sure who messed up yesterday.

Big mandate on the Sabbath Day observance coming from HQ. Expect much much more of that. That being said, tailor your message.

[UtahsMrSports]

Well, it was Father's day yesterday so the talks were focused on.... keeping the Sabbath day holy! Missionary and High Councilman spoke with neither a mention of fathers. :swear: The primary kids did sing, but had some weird song with two full lines about grandmothers :confused:. We had great talks for Mother's day, so not sure who messed up yesterday.

Its gender discrimination, pure and simple. Ive about had it! I was trying to change my infants diaper and in both of the mens restrooms, the changing table was inconveniently placed! Its time that we, as men, rise up and stand up to the injustices and discrimination against us that is so prevelant in the church today!

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

We didn't have Mother's Day or Father's Day talks. We won't have 4th of July, Thanksgiving, or Pioneer Day talks either. The bishopric just assigns monthly topics and forgets about holidays. I think it's a shame because holiday talks inevitably lead to a decent amount of entertaining whining from overly sensitive people.

I didn't realize that Jehovah's Witnesses also had bishoprics. I have little kids, so I didn't have the pleasure of listening to people not talk about fathers. I can verify that every male over 18 was given a cookie in recognition of maybe being a father. A single, mediocre chocolate chip cookie.

[Rocker Ute]

I didn't realize that Jehovah's Witnesses also had bishoprics. I have little kids, so I didn't have the pleasure of listening to people not talk about fathers. I can verify that every male over 18 was given a cookie in recognition of maybe being a father. A single, mediocre chocolate chip cookie.

Overpayment.

[LA Ute]

WE had two talks on fathers, our YW spoke about girls' camp, and the YW laid out pastries, juice and milk for the dads during priesthood, which ended 15 minutes early so we could go pork out on the stuff in the cultural hall. The Young Men helped us consume all the goodies. My ward rocks. Neener-neener.

[mUUser]

.....our YW spoke about girls' camp......


Our now 17 year old daughter had attended girls camp through last year, and never felt like it was worthwhile. I was always feeling like she wasn't "trying" to enjoy it. This year, through the miracle of social media, I was snooping on my wife's account and came across a couple of Bishopric and Stake Presidency skits performed at YW.

You have got to be kidding me. Why is it we LDS take such great pride in being uncomfortably weird.....3 idiotic lip syncing skits to go along with equally idiotic dancing. Like a bad YW night on steroids. If this is par for YW camp, I feel guilty for having sent her to a week of that crap. The weirdness filters into our unique language, actions, teachings, entertainment....pretty much everything. Frustrating beyond measure.

[LA Ute]

Our now 17 year old daughter had attended girls camp through last year, and never felt like it was worthwhile. I was always feeling like she wasn't "trying" to enjoy it. This year, through the miracle of social media, I was snooping on my wife's account and came across a couple of Bishopric and Stake Presidency skits performed at YW.

You have got to be kidding me. Why is it we LDS take such great pride in being uncomfortably weird.....3 idiotic lip syncing skits to go along with equally idiotic dancing. Like a bad YW night on steroids. If this is par for YW camp, I feel guilty for having sent her to a week of that crap. The weirdness filters into our unique language, actions, teachings, entertainment....pretty much everything. Frustrating beyond measure.

FWIW I've never seen bishopric skits at any girls' camp. We've had a serious tradition of making the week count. We are probably just lucky.

[Rocker Ute]

Our now 17 year old daughter had attended girls camp through last year, and never felt like it was worthwhile. I was always feeling like she wasn't "trying" to enjoy it. This year, through the miracle of social media, I was snooping on my wife's account and came across a couple of Bishopric and Stake Presidency skits performed at YW.

You have got to be kidding me. Why is it we LDS take such great pride in being uncomfortably weird.....3 idiotic lip syncing skits to go along with equally idiotic dancing. Like a bad YW night on steroids. If this is par for YW camp, I feel guilty for having sent her to a week of that crap. The weirdness filters into our unique language, actions, teachings, entertainment....pretty much everything. Frustrating beyond measure.

I can't imagine my bishopric doing skits.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Yesterday I got a text from the second councilor in my bishopric. It was a dick pic. (Doubtful it was his.) He's a urologist, so you know, he gets a pass. Or something.

[LA Ute]

Yesterday I got a text from the second councilor in my bishopric. It was a dick pic. (Doubtful it was his.) He's a urologist, so you know, he gets a pass. Or something.

:blink:

[Sullyute]

Yesterday I got a text from the second councilor in my bishopric. It was a dick pic. (Doubtful it was his.) He's a urologist, so you know, he gets a pass. Or something.

LOL, the irony! How close is your number or name to his wife's? Too funny.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

:blink:

Funny. That was my exact response.


LOL, the irony! How close is your number or name to his wife's? Too funny.

Now that I think about it, yesterday was his wife's birthday...

It was actually a group text. Also included was the EQ president of the neighboring ward who I'm blaming for starting this mess when he sent out a Happy Thanksgiving text of a turkey gobbler that looked suspiciously like a set of testicles. Doctors are perverts.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Doctors are tech challenged too.

[NorthwestUteFan]

"That is delicious to the taste, and very desirable!".

[NorthwestUteFan]

"We desire all to receive it."

[NorthwestUteFan]

"Strength in the loins ..."

[NorthwestUteFan]

(If it was enormous) "How did you get that picture of me?"

[NorthwestUteFan]

(If it is 'dimunitive') "Shrinkage!"

[jrj84105]

Unless it was diseased, gigantic, or microscopic, it was his and it was a mistake.

[LA Ute]

Unless it was diseased, gigantic, or microscopic, it was his and it was a mistake.

Seriously. I mean, who does that? What a brainless thing to do.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Seriously. I mean, who does that? What a brainless thing to do.

No kidding. At a minimum he needs to be embarrassed over it.

Maybe have him watch this interview of Edward Snowden by John Oliver, especially the part where he describes what happens to a dick pic that gets texted to another person. Hint: it goes offshore, then routes through the government servers when it returns. It then is evaluated for content and retained (at the new server farm in Utah, perhaps?).

Note: some nsfw language.

Relevant portion:
H_Udb8SYeS0

Full segment (well worth watching):
I4cmN_9-FAo

[NorthwestUteFan]

"Hey, why did you just send me a picture of your dick?"

"Because I love America, that's why."

[chrisrenrut]

The church expanded their online donations today. I'm not sure how widespread the rollout is. We got an email that our Ward is included. Very good system, designed to make things simple. It even shows you your donation history for this year and last.

[Brian]

Last week we had a HC guy. This week we had another. He said he was sick last month, so he came yesterday to make up for it.
Thanks dude......

Extremely boring and blow-hardy take on Oaks' talk on priesthood (the one that addressed the OW movement).
At the end he said that TSM is the prophet for today, and that if we want to return to God, we should follow the example of his life and pattern ours after his.
Well, that woke me up.

How's the best way to combat this shit? In class I could always raise my hand and offer a comment, however, my sunbeams usually don't say things this stupid. They usually just ask more another piece of paper or more crackers.
The leader-worship is something that really irks me. I know, I need to get over it, but at the same time I think it's extremely unhealthy.

[chrisrenrut]

Last week we had a HC guy. This week we had another. He said he was sick last month, so he came yesterday to make up for it.
Thanks dude......

Extremely boring and blow-hardy take on Oaks' talk on priesthood (the one that addressed the OW movement).
At the end he said that TSM is the prophet for today, and that if we want to return to God, we should follow the example of his life and pattern ours after his.
Well, that woke me up.

How's the best way to combat this shit? In class I could always raise my hand and offer a comment, however, my sunbeams usually don't say things this stupid. They usually just ask more another piece of paper or more crackers.
The leader-worship is something that really irks me. I know, I need to get over it, but at the same time I think it's extremely unhealthy.

WWTSMD?

If we all follow that, there will be a lot more visitors to sick people in hospitals and shut-in widows.

[UTEopia]

Last week we had a HC guy. This week we had another. He said he was sick last month, so he came yesterday to make up for it.
Thanks dude......

Extremely boring and blow-hardy take on Oaks' talk on priesthood (the one that addressed the OW movement).
At the end he said that TSM is the prophet for today, and that if we want to return to God, we should follow the example of his life and pattern ours after his.
Well, that woke me up.

How's the best way to combat this shit? In class I could always raise my hand and offer a comment, however, my sunbeams usually don't say things this stupid. They usually just ask more another piece of paper or more crackers.
The leader-worship is something that really irks me. I know, I need to get over it, but at the same time I think it's extremely unhealthy.

What is there to combat? Your eternity is in no way determined by those who want to pattern their lives after a general authority. My daughter was asked to give a talk this past Sunday based on a general conference talk from last October that was not her favorite (or mine). There were some statements in the talk that she found difficult. Her husband gave her some good advice. Go through the talk and cross out every part that you don't like and then base your talk on what is left. I kind of do that at church each Sunday. Most of the time I cross out a few things. Sometimes I block out an entire talk or lesson. But for the most part I can find something that I agree with and that inspires me to be a better husband, father, son, friend and neighbor.

[Rocker Ute]

My mission president had his son leave the church before he became mission president. He left saying, "If this is Christ's church how come the only time I hear his name is at the end of prayers." He admitted that sometimes this is right, more than we realize.

He counseled that in everything we spoke about or taught we should tie it into and testify of Christ and if we couldn't do that, it probably was not correct doctrine or didn't need to be said. Good advice.

Since then, no matter the assigned subject I tie it into Christ. If someone else is blathering on I do it in my head on their behalf.

Amazing how the nonsense melts away when you do that and people invariable love what is being spoken about.

[LA Ute]

My mission president had his son leave the church before he became mission president. He left saying, "If this is Christ's church how come the only time I hear his name is at the end of prayers." He admitted that sometimes this is right, more than we realize.

He counseled that in everything we spoke about or taught we should tie it into and testify of Christ and if we couldn't do that, it probably was not correct doctrine or didn't need to be said. Good advice.

Since then, no matter the assigned subject I tie it into Christ.

Amazing how the nonsense melts away when you do that and people invariable love what is being spoken about.

Great approach. In our stake all high councilors have been instructed to do this going forward, and bishops have been instructed that all sacrament meeting talk assignments should include that same guidance. That should help.


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[LA Ute]

It's a good reminder that we are given periodically, but the "problem" is overblown. If Rocker's mission president's son wants to say he left the Church because of too many talks about tithing, that's his right. But it's only an excuse. We are all capable of taking a Pioneer Day talk that doesn't happen to quote from the New Testament and make the tiny leap of logic required to understand why it is relevant to us as Christians. You can't belong to the Mormon Church for long without seeing how Christ-centered it is. We can keep that and still sing "Praise to the Man" every once in a while.

I just don't think it's that hard to tie any gospel topic into the atonement. I think that is the direction the church is going. Take alook at last fall's GC talks.

[mUUser]

......We can keep that and still sing "Praise to the Man" every once in a while.

Ugh.....I want to tear my ears off when that one rotates around.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Ugh.....I want to tear my ears off when that one rotates around.

Next time just sing "Scotland The Brave".

"Hark, when the night is falling
Hear, hear the pipes are calling
Loudly and Proudly calling down through the glen
There where the hills are sleeping
Now feel the blood a-leaping
High as the spirits of the old Highland men!

Towering in gallant fame
Scotland my mountain hame
High may your proud standards gloriously wave!

Land o'er the high endeavour
Land o' the shining river
Land o'er my heart forever,
Scotland the Brave!"

[LA Ute]

I guess this belongs here. I thinks it's painfully hilarious:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=62&v=LmGp3rThIzA

[Rocker Ute]

I just enjoyed a 10 minute talk about Cinderella, where clearly the person believed she was a real person. Tearfully she recounted the sheer isolation that was so extreme she befriended rodents and humbly acknowledged that she personally lacked the capacity to do the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Trek recap Sunday. Too much "ma" and "pa" for my palate.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

I just enjoyed a 10 minute talk about Cinderella, where clearly the person believed she was a real person. Tearfully she recounted the sheer isolation that was so extreme she befriended rodents and humbly acknowledged that she personally lacked the capacity to do the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is brilliant. I need to bring more non-fictionilized fiction (not just the church history kind) into my talks and lessons.

[Brian]

I forgot to mention this a few weeks back. The text for the primary program was a little surprising. I don't remember the exact wording, but it said "J.S. used the U&T to translate the book of mormon. He also used a chocolate colored seer stone."

A 6 year old was saying this, and it was funny hearing her have to struggle through saying Urim and Thumim. Did anyone else remember hearing that line? Or was it just our program?

[LA Ute]

I forgot to mention this a few weeks back. The text for the primary program was a little surprising. I don't remember the exact wording, but it said "J.S. used the U&T to translate the book of mormon. He also used a chocolate colored seer stone."

A 6 year old was saying this, and it was funny hearing her have to struggle through saying Urim and Thumim. Did anyone else remember hearing that line? Or was it just our program?

I think it was mocha colored.


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

I forgot to mention this a few weeks back. The text for the primary program was a little surprising. I don't remember the exact wording, but it said "J.S. used the U&T to translate the book of mormon. He also used a chocolate colored seer stone."

A 6 year old was saying this, and it was funny hearing her have to struggle through saying Urim and Thumim. Did anyone else remember hearing that line? Or was it just our program?

Any mentions of a hat? Are these programs correlated? I've never worked in the primary and I guess I just assumed that speaking parts for these things were written by the primary presidency and approved by the bishop. Of course this doesn't mesh with how the church does anything else, but I was holding out hope.


I think it was mocha colored.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Only because it was before the WOW.

[Brian]

Any mentions of a hat? Are these programs correlated? I've never worked in the primary and I guess I just assumed that speaking parts for these things were written by the primary presidency and approved by the bishop. Of course this doesn't mesh with how the church does anything else, but I was holding out hope.



Only because it was before the WOW.


I thought the script came from SLC and they modified it for the number of kids, etc. I can guarantee our Primary President wouldn't have put that in...


Mocha.... Good one.

[LA Ute]

Nothing like that came up in our primary program. I don't think there are scripts. FWIW.

BTW, I am reading Richard Lloyd Anderson's book, "Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses" (from about 1970, I think). It's pretty interesting and there's quite a bit about the seer stone, which is treated pretty matter-of-factly. I really am not sure any effort was made to keep the stone's existence secret or to downplay it. JS said hardly anything to anyone about the translation process, it seems, perhaps because, as Givens has written, Joseph thought the fact of the Book of Mormon's existence was the important thing. He didn't even teach out of it much. He wanted people to read it and determine whether they believed it was true.

I don't mean to threadjack, your post just reminded me of Anderson's book.

[Brian]

Nothing like that came up in our primary program. I don't think there are scripts. FWIW.

BTW, I am reading Richard Lloyd Anderson's book, "Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses" (from about 1970, I think). It's pretty interesting and there's quite a bit about the seer stone, which is treated pretty matter-of-factly. I really am not sure any effort was made to keep the stone's existence secret or to downplay it. JS said hardly anything to anyone about the translation process, it seems, perhaps because, as Givens has written, Joseph thought the fact of the Book of Mormon's existence was the important thing. He didn't even teach out of it much. He wanted people to read it and determine whether they believed it was true.

I don't mean to threadjack, your post just reminded me of Anderson's book.

Interesting....
Nothing wrong with it, I just thought it was kind of amusing hearing it from a 6 year old. Especially listening to her during practice as the teacher sounded it out one syllable at a time.

[LA Ute]

Interesting....
Nothing wrong with it, I just thought it was kind of amusing hearing it from a 6 year old. Especially listening to her during practice as the teacher sounded it out one syllable at a time.

I think it's great that the kids are hearing about these things at a young age.


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[LA Ute]

I guess this belongs here.

Confessions Of A Non-Mormon

Thoughts on the Religion and Culture that Define Utah

http://theodysseyonline.com/george-fox-university/confessions-of-non-mormon/240561


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[Brian]

3rd hour yesterday was combined Men,Women and youth.
The topic was 'The Book of Mormon' musical, which is coming to town in a few months.

Overall, I thought it was pretty good. The emphasis was on positive engagement with people who had questions. Seemed to be along the lines of "You've seen the musical, now read the book" ads the church is taking out in the playbill. So, it was better than I thought it would be.
The stake president was in attendance, and he said that the SPs in the area had discussed this with the AA in meetings recently. So, it's a coordinated effort for sure.

The one thing I would have done differently would have been to talk a little more about the musical itself. I haven't seen it, but have read a little about it. There were a lot of comments that it's just a joke, outrageous, vulgar, etc. There actually was a slide that listed all the awards it received. But there was an aire of liberal entertainment, make fun of Mitt and give it a bunch of awards, etc. etc. From what little I've read, the musical is about cultural colonialism. And it seems like it raises some very good points, vulgarity aside. Maybe even find some quotes that address this issue from GenConf. Then folks have a little more info to have an informed conversation with friends who will ask questions.

But it's probably good nobody asked me to do it.

Anyone else had these meetings?

[Rocker Ute]

3rd hour yesterday was combined Men,Women and youth.
The topic was 'The Book of Mormon' musical, which is coming to town in a few months.

Overall, I thought it was pretty good. The emphasis was on positive engagement with people who had questions. Seemed to be along the lines of "You've seen the musical, now read the book" ads the church is taking out in the playbill. So, it was better than I thought it would be.
The stake president was in attendance, and he said that the SPs in the area had discussed this with the AA in meetings recently. So, it's a coordinated effort for sure.

The one thing I would have done differently would have been to talk a little more about the musical itself. I haven't seen it, but have read a little about it. There were a lot of comments that it's just a joke, outrageous, vulgar, etc. There actually was a slide that listed all the awards it received. But there was an aire of liberal entertainment, make fun of Mitt and give it a bunch of awards, etc. etc. From what little I've read, the musical is about cultural colonialism. And it seems like it raises some very good points, vulgarity aside. Maybe even find some quotes that address this issue from GenConf. Then folks have a little more info to have an informed conversation with friends who will ask questions.

But it's probably good nobody asked me to do it.

Anyone else had these meetings?


We focused primarily on 'Cats'.

[Brian]

We focused primarily on 'Cats'.

:clap:

[Sullyute]

3rd hour yesterday was combined Men,Women and youth.
The topic was 'The Book of Mormon' musical, which is coming to town in a few months.

Overall, I thought it was pretty good. The emphasis was on positive engagement with people who had questions. Seemed to be along the lines of "You've seen the musical, now read the book" ads the church is taking out in the playbill. So, it was better than I thought it would be.
The stake president was in attendance, and he said that the SPs in the area had discussed this with the AA in meetings recently. So, it's a coordinated effort for sure.

The one thing I would have done differently would have been to talk a little more about the musical itself. I haven't seen it, but have read a little about it. There were a lot of comments that it's just a joke, outrageous, vulgar, etc. There actually was a slide that listed all the awards it received. But there was an aire of liberal entertainment, make fun of Mitt and give it a bunch of awards, etc. etc. From what little I've read, the musical is about cultural colonialism. And it seems like it raises some very good points, vulgarity aside. Maybe even find some quotes that address this issue from GenConf. Then folks have a little more info to have an informed conversation with friends who will ask questions.

But it's probably good nobody asked me to do it.

Anyone else had these meetings?

I haven't had the lesson but i love the music from the musical. My kids love it too (there are a few songs that swear that i skip for them).

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[Rocker Ute]

:clap:


To answer your question, no we haven't had any direction that I am aware of regarding that. I live east bench SLC. Whereabouts do you live again?

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

I had four of Dave Rose's grand kids in my primary class yesterday. Had I attended Sacrament meeting, I would have witnessed DR in the circle of a baby blessing. The parents of the baby are not members of my ward. It was a very confusing class. I was able to sneak in a good Nick Emery joke though. Not that nine year olds find me funny.

Also, there was a charter bus in the parking lot when I left, so I guess the rest of the basketball team showed up for 11:00 church. It was a privilege to miss out on that circus again. Not sure why they always attend in our building.


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[Rocker Ute]

I had four of Dave Rose's grand kids in my primary class yesterday. Had I attended Sacrament meeting, I would have witnessed DR in the circle of a baby blessing. The parents of the baby are not members of my ward. It was a very confusing class. I was able to sneak in a good Nick Emery joke though. Not that nine year olds find me funny.

Also, there was a charter bus in the parking lot when I left, so I guess the rest of the basketball team showed up for 11:00 church. It was a privilege to miss out on that circus again. Not sure why they always attend in our building.


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That must have been frustrating, presuming you didn't bring any beer to church to pour on his grandkids (or if you did being beer that you had probably already drank all of it).

Maybe next time the Cougs are in you can put up the 'Stake Conference Today' signs and direct them to another building.


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

That must have been frustrating, presuming you didn't bring any beer to church to pour on his grandkids (or if you did being beer that you had probably already drank all of it).

Maybe next time the Cougs are in you can put up the 'Stake Conference Today' signs and direct them to another building.


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I should have just gave them $5 and cancelled class.

[Sullyute]

I should have just gave them $5 and cancelled class.

:clap:

[mUUser]

Youth speaker on Mother's Day yesterday was interesting to say the least. He wasn't your stereotypical clean cut band geek -- cut more from the skateboarding culture -- tall frohawk, leisure clothes and started his talk with the word "Hey......" Spoke a bit about how appreciative he was that his mother loved him despite his "uniqueness". Ended the talk abruptly, but quickly jogged back to the podium to say "oh yeah, Amen." He clearly didn't buy into the generally accepted speaking practices of most members. Gotta give it to him, he's typically there for three full hours week in and week out and fulfilled what was asked of him that day.

[Rocker Ute]

This is what I miss about sacrament meeting in New Orleans.

Two weeks ago, the RS in my ward said they had a really important message for all the women in the ward on Mothers Day. Can the elders and high priests cover all the primary assignments that hour? Sure. So I got to teach the 5 year olds, which is always awesome. The good part, though, is that RS pulled a bait and switch! Instead of a mothers day message, they hit 'em all with a visiting teaching pep talk. Fooled you!

Nothing like a little guilt on Mother's Day.

[LA Ute]

Youth speaker on Mother's Day yesterday was interesting to say the least. He wasn't your stereotypical clean cut band geek -- cut more from the skateboarding culture -- tall frohawk, leisure clothes and started his talk with the word "Hey......" Spoke a bit about how appreciative he was that his mother loved him despite his "uniqueness". Ended the talk abruptly, but quickly jogged back to the podium to say "oh yeah, Amen." He clearly didn't buy into the generally accepted speaking practices of most members. Gotta give it to him, he's typically there for three full hours week in and week out and fulfilled what was asked of him that day.

Good for him! I love stuff like this. You're right, the important thing is that he is there.

[LA Ute]

Attending the Manhattan First Ward today. It's always so interesting to be here. In summer, of course, there are a lot of visitors. The cultural hall was 2/3 full during sacrament meeting. It being fast Sunday there were testimonies -- many from people here on vacation or former ward members back for a visit -- with many reminiscences of their times here. But it wasn't bad.

One of the testimonies was by young man who seemed to be African, judging from his faint accent, but clearly had lived in the USA a long time. He bore a very detailed testimony about the restoration of the priesthood, including a visit he and his wife made last weekend to the recently dedicated church sites in Pennsylvania, commemorating those events. It was a fine testimony, heartfelt and lighthearted and articulate. He is probably a grad student or recent graduate, holding his toddler while he spoke. A totally normal testimony. It wasn't until he sat down that it occurred to me how normal that testimony was today, and how utterly remarkable it would have been 30+ years ago. That thought made me happy.


"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Attending the Manhattan First Ward today. It's always so interesting to be here. In summer, of course, there are a lot of visitors. The cultural hall was 2/3 full during sacrament meeting. It being fast Sunday there were testimonies -- many from people here on vacation or former ward members back for a visit -- with many reminiscences of their times here. But it wasn't bad.

One of the testimonies was by young man who seemed to be African, judging from his faint accent, but clearly had lived in the USA a long time. He bore a very detailed testimony about the restoration of the priesthood, including a visit he and his wife made last weekend to the recently dedicated church sites in Pennsylvania, commemorating those events. It was a fine testimony, heartfelt and lighthearted and articulate. He is probably a grad student or recent graduate, holding his toddler while he spoke. A totally normal testimony. It wasn't until he sat down that it occurred to me how normal that testimony was today, and how utterly remarkable it would have been 30+ years ago. That thought made me happy.


"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus

Nice post. Although it makes me want to flip off the 30 years ago church a little.


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[LA Ute]

Nice post. Although it makes me want to flip off the 30 years ago church a little.


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It gets better. The HP group leader is a Harvard-educated 35 year-old from Central West Africa who led a great discussion. Incredibly impressive young guy. Look for him to be a GA in a few years.

I didn't want to leave after the meeting ended. The ward is full of impressive, insightful and spiritual people, most of them young.

As for the church 38 years ago (wow, it'll be 40 years in 2018) maybe it's time to give those folks a break. My guess is that nobody under 45-50 years of age remembers that era. It's slipping into history like BYU's 1984 #1 ranking.

[UtahsMrSports]

Today I walked in to the library to get chalk and eraser for my lesson in the teacher's quorum. These two librarians, both older guys, have made a giant pile of chalk and erasers and also scriptures on the front counter. There were also some dvds sitting there. They were both ducking down in the back of the library, playing on their phones. (for most people, their hiding place would have been fine, but at 6'6, I could easily look down into their little fort and see them).

I am not suggesting that anything inappropriate or creepy was happening at all. I have seen (and been guilty myself!) of laziness in a church calling, but this takes the cake.

[Rocker Ute]

My son is the first counselor in the deacon's quorum. The president and him are friends but they don't hang out (he is a grade ahead).

We get a message on our home phone from the deacon's quorum president for my son to call him back. My wife says, "That is weird, those two don't hang out, I wonder why he is calling." I state that he is probably calling to do important quorum stuff.

So my son calls him back, he chats with him for about 20 seconds with a confused look on his face and then hangs up.

We ask him what he wanted and he says, "I don't know, he just said to me that I was his first counselor and so if his brother or parents called him he needed to tell them he was at our house all afternoon."

Providing alibis - the new role of a counselor in the church.


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[UtahsMrSports]

My son is the first counselor in the deacon's quorum. The president and him are friends but they don't hang out (he is a grade ahead).

We get a message on our home phone from the deacon's quorum president for my son to call him back. My wife says, "That is weird, those two don't hang out, I wonder why he is calling." I state that he is probably calling to do important quorum stuff.

So my son calls him back, he chats with him for about 20 seconds with a confused look on his face and then hangs up.

We ask him what he wanted and he says, "I don't know, he just said to me that I was his first counselor and so if his brother or parents called him he needed to tell them he was at our house all afternoon."

Providing alibis - the new role of a counselor in the church.


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That is awesome!

[UtahsMrSports]

We had a strange sacrament meeting today. There was not one pioneer song or talk on the pioneers at all. Instead it was a "Lets have the moms of missionaries talk" day.

After two speakers and a rest hymn, a mom got up to talk about her missionary son. He is autistic. She spoke about the intial diagnosis and not knowing anything about it. She talked about how one day he approached her and her husband and said he wanted to serve a mission. It just so happened that the bishop had just been to a meeting about young men and women who were unable to serve a "regular" mission could apply to serve at the Mill in Kaysville. So now he spends 40 hours a week down there. You could tell how truly grateful she was. As a mom, she had always planned on her oldest son not going on a mission, and now he had the chance to do so.

I am not doing it justice at all, unfortunately, but it was one of the top 5 talks ive ever heard in Sacrament meeting.

[Sullyute]

I subbed in nursery today. Found a dead mouse in the middle of the room. I threw it away. I think it came from the toy box. I plan to bring Lysol next week to spray on the toys.

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[Scorcho]

I left my Sunday School class feeling so good about the LDS youth today. I teach the 13 year olds and leave every week just amazed at them.

[arizonaute]

You ever teach 5th sunday lesson to adults and feel like when you were done that you just wasted 30 minutes of everyones life.


As it went on I felt like it was getting less and less effective. I pulled the ripcorp 10 minutes early.


Yeah that was me on Sunday.

[LA Ute]

You ever teach 5th sunday lesson to adults and feel like when you were done that you just wasted 30 minutes of everyones life.


As it went on I felt like it was getting less and less effective. I pulled the ripcorp 10 minutes early.


Yeah that was me on Sunday.

It happens to us all. I'll bet there were people whom you helped anyway, unbeknownst to you.

[arizonaute]

interesting thing is, i felt prepared. I had path laid out to get some info out the bishop wanted to talk about. I had a plan to get from a to b to c.
When it was over we got there but not how i had it running through my head when i started.


I hope it helped someone. My other hope is that i didnt make poeple not want to attend 5th sunday lessons. Sometimes they are worth it.

[Rocker Ute]

I asked an old guy at church yesterday if I could borrow his pen. He felt around in his pocket for a minute and then said, "What did the proctologist say when he pulled a thermometer out of his pocket?"
"What?"
"Some bum has my pen."

[Brian]

An old lady, who I don't know well at all, spoke about her addiction to pain pills a few years back, and how she struggled to overcome, but eventually did.

It was real, raw and very nice.

[chrisrenrut]

An old lady, who I don't know well at all, spoke about her addiction to pain pills a few years back, and how she struggled to overcome, but eventually did.

It was real, raw and very nice.

My parents were service missionaries in the Addiction Recovery Program for 4 or 5 years. My dad said those meetings were the among the most spiritual experiences he has ever had.

[LA Ute]

My parents were service missionaries in the Addiction Recovery Program for 4 or 5 years. My dad said those meetings were the among the most spiritual experiences he has ever had.

They do some great work in that program.

[mUUser]

My parents were service missionaries in the Addiction Recovery Program for 4 or 5 years. My dad said those meetings were the among the most spiritual experiences he has ever had.


One of our members today testified of her experience with a similar program. Six years ago her son overdosed after an(other) unsuccessful stay in a recovery program, but, she testified of her gratitude to those that worked with him, and credited them for giving them additional time with their son. She testified of unconditional love and unrighteous judgment. That's obviously a thumbnail sketch of her testimony, but, needless to say was extremely powerful. The next member talked of his friendship with her son, and how he missed him too. They are close to the same age. He then testified of another very close friend (also about his age), who lost his young son to reoccurring cancer. He testified of his friend's strength, dignity & faith in his son's final hours. Another powerful testimony of love, faith and service.

I really love our ward for many reasons I won't share today. Different from any other ward we've been to in our 30 years of marriage.

I loved church so much today. The reminder of perspective is a powerful anecdote to self-pity.

[LA Ute]

One of our members today testified of her experience with a similar program. Six years ago her son overdosed after an(other) unsuccessful stay in a recovery program, but, she testified of her gratitude to those that worked with him, and credited them for giving them additional time with their son. She testified of unconditional love and unrighteous judgment. That's obviously a thumbnail sketch of her testimony, but, needless to say was extremely powerful. The next member talked of his friendship with her son, and how he missed him too. They are close to the same age. He then testified of another very close friend (also about his age), who lost his young son to reoccurring cancer. He testified of his friend's strength, dignity & faith in his son's final hours. Another powerful testimony of love, faith and service.

I really love our ward for many reasons I won't share today. Different from any other ward we've been to in our 30 years of marriage.

I loved church so much today. The reminder of perspective is a powerful anecdote to self-pity.

Great story. Out if curiosity, may I ask in what general part of SLC is your ward located?


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[Sullyute]

We had a really good meeting yesterday too. I really like listening to people share their trials, tribulations, triumphs and testimonies. F&T is my favorite - best Sunday of the month.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

A couple of whammies today to start the year with. First, due to ward realignments and moves, this is the first time in four years that we don't have 9:00 church. The morning sure didn't seem much longer, but the afternoon sure felt a hell of a lot shorter. The second one was they bumped us down from teaching the 9 year olds to teaching the 4 year olds. 9 of them. Junior Primary is 50 minutes of pure chaos. Why do other people's kids insist on trying to climb onto your lap?! Walking out the door, my wife asked if I had packed any snacks for the class. "No, it's fast Sunday" as I walked out to warm up the car. Fortunately, she knows I'm an idiot and packed plenty. Those really came in handy. At one point, my own four year old had a melt down and my wife had to take him out until he settled down. In one of my less best moments, I let one girl out to go get a drink. Before I realized it, I was down four kids. She managed to wrangle them back to the room and walked in with the biggest "wtf are you doing" look on her face.


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[Rocker Ute]

4yo Primary! My dream calling!

So my daughter just moved on from that class but our former bishop was teaching it and she loved it.

A couple of weeks ago he decided to have them do a human pyramid in class. I don't know if it was tied to a lesson or no but funny nonetheless. He texted out a picture to the parents and some comments were going back and forth.

I finally texted, "Mormons have always been pretty susceptible to pyramid schemes." Which started a cascade of MLM and Mormon jokes.

After 15 minutes of that in a group text, someone replies, "I don't know what church group this is but can you please take me off your list?" Dead silence... he had put a wrong number in the group and some unsuspecting guy got temporarily bombarded by Mormon jokes for about 15 minutes.


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

4yo Primary! My dream calling!

So my daughter just moved on from that class but our former bishop was teaching it and she loved it.

A couple of weeks ago he decided to have them do a human pyramid in class. I don't know if it was tied to a lesson or no but funny nonetheless. He texted out a picture to the parents and some comments were going back and forth.

I finally texted, "Mormons have always been pretty susceptible to pyramid schemes." Which started a cascade of MLM and Mormon jokes.

After 15 minutes of that in a group text, someone replies, "I don't know what church group this is but can you please take me off your list?" Dead silence... he had put a wrong number in the group and some unsuspecting guy got temporarily bombarded by Mormon jokes for about 15 minutes.


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Reminds me of this group text amongst our Elders Quorum about setting up chairs for the ward Christmas party a few weeks ago.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/02a3606c39b7c5608b387fb4f62d950c.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/eb9b20416d11654280e406203c11f576.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/6f0e5161debfb1769727729301aec828.jpg

Looked the phone number up on FB afterwards. Sure enough, kid had to be 13 at most. One digit off from a new family to the ward. I thought it was going to turn into that viral Thanksgiving dinner invite from the grandma. Not yet.


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[UtahsMrSports]

In the teacher's quorum, we try to have the boys teach twice a month. Yesterday, the young man who taught brought a blindfold and some cards for 'Memory'. He then had a quorum member put on the blindfold and try to play memory while half of the quorum tried to help him and the other half tried to lead him astray (without telling him which was which). He then had another quorum member put on the blindfold, while another was assigned to help him. The rest of us tried to lead the blindfolded member astray.

It has been a long time since I have enjoyed a church lesson so much. The boys laughed, bonded, and I think in the end, learned a great lesson about the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

[GeorgeSer]

Today I learned that the Westfield MA library is NOT very good. Hi all I am new to the group, and thought that I would introduce myself by posting to a couple of the threads in which I was interested. Look forward to getting to know all of you

[Applejack]

Today I learned that the Westfield MA library is NOT very good. Hi all I am new to the group, and thought that I would introduce myself by posting to a couple of the threads in which I was interested. Look forward to getting to know all of you


Agreed! The Westfield library is garbage! I went there looking for a Louis La'mour novel. The librarian told me they didn't have any! What a jerkface!

[UtahsMrSports]

Today I learned that the Westfield MA library is NOT very good. Hi all I am new to the group, and thought that I would introduce myself by posting to a couple of the threads in which I was interested. Look forward to getting to know all of you

Curious where you fall on the kate Kelly and john dehlin issue? I mean, should they have been x d or not? Perhaps disfellowship would have been better. Your thoughts? Discuss!

[Rocker Ute]

So I'm putting this story here because I reflected upon it in church and learned my lessons there, even if it happened Friday and Saturday before.

This Friday we took the 14-18yo boys in my ward up to my father-in-law's cabin outside of Mt Pleasant. My friend is the new varsity leader and he is awesome, all energy and fun and adventure. He is one of those guys who has done everything out there and also knows how to do everything. I volunteered my father-in-law's cabin because other plans fell through and it is a very primitive cabin. I jokingly call it 'The Wooden Tent' because when we first got married it didn't have electricity or running water or anything else, it was just a simple A-frame with a loft. He has since piped in some spring water so you can wash your hands and added a small septic tank so you can flush a toilet, and a couple of small solar panels so you can power a few light bulbs.

Still it is a hunter's cabin, he is laid back about it and would be cool with a group of boys messing things up there.

The cabin is two miles up at near the top of the mountain of unplowed road. The idea was to have the kids snowshoe in and give them a little challenge. My friend got a snowmobile from another friend who told him to pick it up from another guy he had lent it to. When he picked it up, the other guy had wrecked it, so my buddy spent all this time getting it working again. However, it was having some idling problems so you needed to keep some juice going on it otherwise it would stall, no big deal.

As mentioned, he is all about fun, so he had skis and snowboards and snow shoes and who knows what else. The kids had never been on a winter outing like this, so most were pretty unprepared packing-wise. They showed up with bedrolls under their arms and big blue coolers and stuff. So we had to haul a lot of stuff up with the snowmobile.

When we got up to the cabin, it was about chest deep in powder... at least 5 feet of snow up there, so quite the trek. We blazed trail so the kids could sled down two miles of road and at the bottom he'd pick them up with the snowmobile and pull them all back up the hill and they'd repeat. They did this until about 1am under a full moon and had a blast.

So now the fun of the story. The next morning we pack up our gear and haul it down to where we had parked the snowmobile. We load stuff up on some sleds to haul down and my buddy and the kids head down. I stay at the top and get the next set of gear ready on sleds and wait for him to come back up and grab it all and then I would head down.

I sit up there for about 45 minutes before he comes back. He arrives and says, "Dude, the snowmobile caught on fire!" Apparently he had forgotten he had turned on the emergency brake and had been cruising around with it on and it lit up. He said he got to the bottom of the hill, smelled smoke, pulled off the cover for the engine and it was on fire. He threw a bunch of snow on it to put it out, but in the process lit the pull-cord on fire and ruined it, so he couldn't turn off the snowmobile or we couldn't start it back up again.

So we are getting things hooked on to head down the hill and he has me go and keep a little juice on the throttle so it doesn't stall like it had been doing. The throttle is heated, which feels great with a snow glove on, but with bare hands it is burning my hand so I am holding on as long as I can and then I switch hands. I'm doing this for a while when I switch hands and barely graze the kill switch which kills the engine. CRAPPPPPP!!!!! I am an idiot. Of course, had it not lit on fire there would not have been that issue, but that is how big problems usually cascade. Still my fault for not being more careful.

So there we are at the top of the hill with most of the gear, a broken down snowmobile and all of the kids down at the bottom of the hill sledding still and it is about 2:30 in the afternoon and we have some hard decisions to make. My buddy says, "Wait a minute, there is a way to do an emergency start on snowmobiles!" So we open up the motor and there is a little box where an emergency pull-start cord is supposed to be, but it is empty. So, we get a cam strap and wrap it around this flywheel and try to manually pull it. It will pull and turn over, but not run. We speculate that the engine is flooding at idle which is why it is stalling, so we pull off the spark plugs and sure enough it is full of gas.

So we try to clean that up, meanwhile it has been about an hour since we've seen the kids and there is limited cell service. No voice and only about 1/2 of the texts are getting through. So we decide that my buddy is going to try to pull apart the side of the engine with the pull cord to see if we can't get a part of it there and get it going. I will trek down the hill and pull a tube that doesn't slide all that well (or at least as good as the sleds they were using to go the whole way down) with stuff on it down with me and I'll take care of the boys. I'll try to text him at the bottom to see where he is at, otherwise I am going to have to go for a long drive, try to rent a snowmobile and come and pick him up and haul that thing out.

So I start jogging down the hill and tubing where it will actually go trying to get to the boys as quick as possible. The whole time I am just praying he can get it started.

When I arrive it is like a scene from Lord of the Flies. Two of the kids have their shirts off because they had gotten wet and cold and it was imminent that society is about to break down. When I get up to them I say, "Is Piggy still alive?..." They stare blankly at me, apparently Lord of the Flies isn't required reading any more. So I get them dried off and we start hiking towards the car.

As we are about 200 yards from the car my buddy comes rolling up on the snowmobile with all the gear on sleds in tow and we let out a big cheer.

Apparently he tried to take apart the other side but realized he was going to have to remove the engine to get to the rest of the burned-off pull-cord. So he put the thing back together and he said, "Then I looked up at the Big Man and said, 'I've done everything thing I can, so I need you to bail me out this time..'" He wrapped the cam-strap one more time around the fly-wheel, did a big pull and the stupid thing started up.

However you slice it, we were blessed, fortunate or lucky. Things of course could have been much worse, it could have been late, it could have been in a secluded place and we could have not known what was going on up top etc. He could have gone back to the cabin and stayed warm until help came, etc.

But a good adventure anyway. While you hate those sort of situations they are also my favorite kind of memories. You have to sit down and work the problem out and make some critical decisions. Do I spend time trying to fix the machine, or do I walk out of here? If I work on the machine and it doesn't work two hours later does that make the situation worse? What about the kids down below? Are they okay? Will they know what to do?

Anyway, good times, it was cathartic telling the story here. I need to do more stuff like that.

[Sullyute]

Great story Rocker.


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[LA Ute]

The important question, Rocker: Did you file a Tour Permit before you went on this adventure?


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[Rocker Ute]

The important question, Rocker: Did you file a Tour Permit before you went on this adventure?


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Tour Permits are no longer used, since 2011, they have been replaced by Tour Plans.

[LA Ute]

Tour Permits are no longer used, since 2011, they have been replaced by Tour Plans.

You're avoiding the question. Were you in compliance or not? I'm in touch with people in the Great Salt Lake Council who want to know.

[Rocker Ute]

You're avoiding the question. Were you in compliance or not? I'm in touch with people in the Great Salt Lake Council who want to know.

I am not at liberty to disclose any further details about events or our boys until I have evidence that you yourself have properly rechartered and passed all required online safety courses, I am very sorry. Can I interest you in a $20 GSLC patch?

[Sullyute]

Our stake president spent a solid 15 minutes of our combined third hour instilling the importance of getting the presiding priesthood authority's approval before standing during the intermediate sacrament hymn. Apparently he got his dander in a fluff when the chorister didn't ask him before inviting the audience to stand and sing during ward conference (she had asked the bishop, who gave his permission, but she should have asked the stake pres.). You are all forewarned now.


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[sancho]

Our stake president spent a solid 15 minutes of our combined third hour instilling the importance of getting the presiding priesthood authority's approval before standing during the intermediate sacrament hymn. Apparently he got his dander in a fluff when the chorister didn't ask him before inviting the audience to stand and sing during ward conference (she had asked the bishop, who gave his permission, but she should have asked the stake pres.). You are all forewarned now.


Wow. Elevating guidelines to the status of commandments has always been a church pet peeve of mine. I'm just not wired that way.

My daughter is 8. Her birthday is in January, and every other 8-year-old in the ward was born before January. So she stays behind in a Sunday School class where she is more than a year older than anyone else, while there is a class down the hall with 4 kids her age. We had to decide if we were going to make a stink and put her in the class she belongs in against the wishes of the bishop or if we were just going to put up with it. We decided to just put up with it, but it was not an easy call.

[LA Ute]

Wow. Elevating guidelines to the status of commandments has always been a church pet peeve of mine. I'm just not wired that way.

My daughter is 8. Her birthday is in January, and every other 8-year-old in the ward was born before January. So she stays behind in a Sunday School class where she is more than a year older than anyone else, while there is a class down the hall with 4 kids her age. We had to decide if we were going to make a stink and put her in the class she belongs in against the wishes of the bishop or if we were just going to put up with it. We decided to just put up with it, but it was not an easy call.

Dumb.


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[UtahsMrSports]

Our stake president spent a solid 15 minutes of our combined third hour instilling the importance of getting the presiding priesthood authority's approval before standing during the intermediate sacrament hymn. Apparently he got his dander in a fluff when the chorister didn't ask him before inviting the audience to stand and sing during ward conference (she had asked the bishop, who gave his permission, but she should have asked the stake pres.). You are all forewarned now.


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Good grief. Talk about a power trip.

[Rocker Ute]

Our stake president spent a solid 15 minutes of our combined third hour instilling the importance of getting the presiding priesthood authority's approval before standing during the intermediate sacrament hymn. Apparently he got his dander in a fluff when the chorister didn't ask him before inviting the audience to stand and sing during ward conference (she had asked the bishop, who gave his permission, but she should have asked the stake pres.). You are all forewarned now.


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I'd say doing the hokey-pokey or above requires Stake Presidency approval, standing or singing less or more verses can be determined by the music director.

[Scorcho]

Wow. Elevating guidelines to the status of commandments has always been a church pet peeve of mine. I'm just not wired that way.

My daughter is 8. Her birthday is in January, and every other 8-year-old in the ward was born before January. So she stays behind in a Sunday School class where she is more than a year older than anyone else, while there is a class down the hall with 4 kids her age. We had to decide if we were going to make a stink and put her in the class she belongs in against the wishes of the bishop or if we were just going to put up with it. We decided to just put up with it, but it was not an easy call.

sigh, that's unfortunate. I completely agree.

the other day my daughter (who's now 18) mentioned to me that a few years ago she mentioned in her YW class that she was reading the novel World War. She said within a couple of weeks one of the Bishop's counselors pulled her aside and told her she shouldn't be reading that. Shortly after, she received a calling and when she was set apart in her blessing they warned her that she needed to be more careful about what she read.

Sooo, a couple of things:

1. I've never read World War Z, so I don't know how bad it is. My daughter is the type of kid that will read several books a month, so I don't keep track of everything she's read. However, I do trust her and there have been times where she has stopped reading a book because she felt it wasn't right.

2. I know this guy (Bishop's counselor) pretty well (we were home teaching companions for a few years), and I was sort of shocked he didn't come to me about this. I'm also sort of bothered that I wasn't present during her setting apart. Isn't it standard practice to always invite the parents when a YW is being set apart for a calling? I'm there pretty much every Sunday.

I've decided I'm not going to say anything to this guy. It's been to long and he's a good friend. I know he had good intentions. The unfortunate part is that my daughter still feel's guilty and ashamed about that experience (she has anxiety issues).

I wish we could focus more on building these kids up, vs. pointing out where they come up short. They will always be there own harshest critics, no need for us to pile on.

[LA Ute]

sigh, that's unfortunate. I completely agree.

the other day my daughter (who's now 18) mentioned to me that a few years ago she mentioned in her YW class that she was reading the novel World War. She said within a couple of weeks one of the Bishop's counselors pulled her aside and told her she shouldn't be reading that. Shortly after, she received a calling and when she was set apart in her blessing they warned her that she needed to be more careful about what she read.

Sooo, a couple of things:

1. I've never read World War Z, so I don't know how bad it is. My daughter is the type of kid that will read several books a month, so I don't keep track of everything she's read. However, I do trust her and there have been times where she has stopped reading a book because she felt it wasn't right.

2. I know this guy (Bishop's counselor) pretty well (we were home teaching companions for a few years), and I was sort of shocked he didn't come to me about this. I'm also sort of bothered that I wasn't present during her setting apart. Isn't it standard practice to always invite the parents when a YW is being set apart for a calling? I'm there pretty much every Sunday.

I've decided I'm not going to say anything to this guy. It's been to long and he's a good friend. I know he had good intentions. The unfortunate part is that my daughter still feel's guilty and ashamed about that experience (she has anxiety issues).

I wish we could focus more on building these kids up, vs. pointing out where they come up short. They will always be there own harshest critics, no need for us to pile on.

I enjoyed the movie, never read the book. Here's what a rating service (http://www.compassbookratings.com/reviews/index.php/review/view/845) says about it:


Content Analysis:

Profanity/Language: 15 religious exclamations; 60 mild obscenities; 7 religious profanities; 30 derogatory names; 40 scatalogical words; 39 anatomical terms; 1 offensive hand gesture; 67 f-word derivatives.

Violence/Gore: Several scenes where zombies eat people involving graphic description of blood, entrails and brains; multiple scenes of violence involving guns, gas, and explosives resulting in death and injury.

Sex/Nudity: It is mentioned that some zombies are nude because their clothes rotted off (non-sexual); 2 sexual references; a character mentions the use of "skin flicks"; and on two occasions rapes are reported, no details.

Mature Subject Matter:
Death, humanity, cannibilism.

Alcohol / Drug Use:
Characters drink and smoke on occasion.

Looks OK to me for an 18 year-old. They can't read Dickens all the time. I guess I'd advise caution if this were the only type of book my daughter liked, but it looks like you're a long ways from that. We've all read horror/sci-fi novels, especially as kids.

[LuckyUte]

The unfortunate part is that my daughter still feel's guilty and ashamed about that experience (she has anxiety issues).

I wish we could focus more on building these kids up, vs. pointing out where they come up short. They will always be there own harshest critics, no need for us to pile on.

There is an article in the March Ensign about anxiety. May be of help. I don't necessarily like the idea being promoted in the article regarding a healthy type of perfectionism (not sure there is such a thing as healthy perfectionism, my experience is that it is unhealthy all the time.), but you may find it useful.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/03/anxiety-and-anxiety-disorders?lang=eng

[Scorcho]

There is an article in the March Ensign about anxiety. May be of help. I don't necessarily like the idea being promoted in the article regarding a healthy type of perfectionism (not sure there is such a thing as healthy perfectionism, my experience is that it is unhealthy all the time.), but you may find it useful.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/03/anxiety-and-anxiety-disorders?lang=eng

thank you

after seeing the book rating maybe that novel is a little sketchy for a 15 year old. She said she never finished it after all the hubalou

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Two funny things have happened at church over the last week.

Wednesday night at cub scouts, we were working with our four Wolves going over the Call of the Wild achievement. One of the points is to review on what to do when approached by a stranger. When looking for feedback from each boy, the twin brothers in our troop went on to explain that their mother has taught them that it's better to get shot and killed by a stranger than to be abducted due to potential horrible things that person may do to them. I honestly had no response to that.

Then on Sunday while waiting for all of the parents to come collect their 4 year old from my (wife's) primary class, my mom - who is visiting - tells me that she had recently spent a few days in Idaho with my father's siblings (my dad passed away about 9 years ago). At one point my uncle told my mom that he had recently seen and read a talk that I had given in Sacrament meeting and had since posted on FB. He tells my mom, "It was good. I was caught by surprise. It was really good." "Why did that surprise you, he's always been good with words?" "I see some of the stuff he posts on FB and I guess I'm just surprised that someone had asked him to speak in a Sacrament meeting."

So there's that vote of confidence that I'm moving forward with.

[mUUser]

....My daughter is 8. Her birthday is in January, and every other 8-year-old in the ward was born before January. So she stays behind in a Sunday School class where she is more than a year older than anyone else, while there is a class down the hall with 4 kids her age. We had to decide if we were going to make a stink and put her in the class she belongs in against the wishes of the bishop or if we were just going to put up with it. We decided to just put up with it, but it was not an easy call.


I'd recommend you put her in the class that she will most enjoy, regardless of the heat you take from the Bishop or anyone else. One of my college daughters recently broke the news to me that she was taking an extended absence from the church. It happens, but, for a believer like me, it's a bit of tough news. Anyway, anything you can do to improve your daughters time at church is well worth the investment.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170305/1569ce9db53b7ea95eab0898f895da27.jpg

Thought I got I got a good shot of Holmoe in his suit and sneakers but apparently the spirit constrained me. Have not managed to run into Emery in primary yet.



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[Brian]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170305/1569ce9db53b7ea95eab0898f895da27.jpg

Thought I got I got a good shot of Holmoe in his suit and sneakers but apparently the spirit constrained me. Have not managed to run into Emery in primary yet.



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Look for Haws in high priest group

[LA Ute]

One member of our ward, named Leo, is an older man with vision and speech issues, and perhaps some dementia or other disability (he has a heavy accent and makes comments in Sunday School that are hard to decipher). Leo joined the church about 3 years ago. Lately he has been blessing the sacrament, which has been kind of an adventure for everyone in attendance at sacrament meeting because he struggles to get through the prayer and takes quite a long time to do that.

Yesterday Leo had an especially difficult time and ended up giving the prayer 4 times before he got it right. (Our bishop will let small errors go -- slurred words, for example -- but Leo's mistakes yesterday were just too big to ignore.) It was hard for everyone present because we wanted Leo to do well and not be embarrassed. But the episode passed and we just moved on with the meeting.

It was testimony meeting, and one of the last persons who spoke, a woman who fairly recently reactivated herself, very emotionally brought up Leo's struggle. She looked down from the pulpit at him, seated in the pews, and in a breaking voice thanked him, saying that the sacrament prayer had become routine to her and she'd fallen into the bad habit of not listening to it carefully. Thanks to him, she said, she had been forced to listen to the prayer carefully and as a result had a new appreciation for the meaning of many of the words. She also was deeply touched, she said, by Leo's determination and persistence in getting the words right. There were few dry eyes in the chapel by the time she sat down. It was a touching and unexpected moment. I like to think the Lord was happy with it. I also learned something important about patience and charity.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

One member of our ward, named Leo, is an older man with vision and speech issues, and perhaps some dementia or other disability (he has a heavy accent and makes comments in Sunday School that are hard to decipher). Leo joined the church about 3 years ago. Lately he has been blessing the sacrament, which has been kind of an adventure for everyone in attendance at sacrament meeting because he struggles to get through the prayer and takes quite a long time to do that.

Yesterday Leo had an especially difficult time and ended up giving the prayer 4 times before he got it right. (Our bishop will let small errors go -- slurred words, for example -- but Leo's mistakes yesterday were just too big to ignore.) It was hard for everyone present because we wanted Leo to do well and not be embarrassed. But the episode passed and we just moved on with the meeting.

It was testimony meeting, and one of the last persons who spoke, a woman who fairly recently reactivated herself, very emotionally brought up Leo's struggle. She looked down from the pulpit at him, seated in the pews, and in a breaking voice thanked him, saying that the sacrament prayer had become routine to her and she'd fallen into the bad habit of not listening to it carefully. Thanks to him, she said, she had been forced to listen to the prayer carefully and as a result had a new appreciation for the meaning of many of the words. She also was deeply touched, she said, by Leo's determination and persistence in getting the words right. There were few dry eyes in the chapel by the time she sat down. It was a touching and unexpected moment. I like to think the Lord was happy with it. I also learned something important about patience and charity.

Thank you. A nice reminder.


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[Scorcho]

Elder Eyrings talk tonight was phenomenal, very powerful.

x:)x

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

The Just Serve piece following this morning's session was phenomenal. The best "talk" of the day for me.


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[UtahsMrSports]

I guess this goes here. I saw this on Twitter yesterday. I have not been able to stop thinking about the story at the end of this. I don't have words. Just incredible.

https://www.lds.org/church/news/elder-holland-shares-account-of-missionary-speech-of-all-time-with-new-misson-presidents?lang=eng

[Sullyute]

That is a nice story.


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[UTEopia]

My wife and daughters and about 7,000 other women paid $75 to attend conference last night and today at the Southtown Expo Center called Timeout for Women. It was sponsored by Deseret Book and has multiple speakers, including Sherri Dew. The session last night started and ended with a prayer. Sherri Dew spoke as well as a musician who sounds like Josh Groban and a former FBI agent who now operates a non-profit that rescues abducted children who are sold on the sex slave market. His organization has done tremendous things. Although none of them ended their speeches with the typical LDS salutation, their speeches were somewhat gospel related and at times had the tone of someone giving a testimony. While my wife was impressed with their messages, in one sense she was bothered because it seemed like this was a Jesus centered commercial venture. She doesn't think the money generated goes to any non-profit. So, do things like this bother anyone? I always cringe at things like Angel Moroni tie clips.

[Diehard Ute]

My wife and daughters and about 7,000 other women paid $75 to attend conference last night and today at the Southtown Expo Center called Timeout for Women. It was sponsored by Deseret Book and has multiple speakers, including Sherri Dew. The session last night started and ended with a prayer. Sherri Dew spoke as well as a musician who sounds like Josh Groban and a former FBI agent who now operates a non-profit that rescues abducted children who are sold on the sex slave market. His organization has done tremendous things. Although none of them ended their speeches with the typical LDS salutation, their speeches were somewhat gospel related and at times had the tone of someone giving a testimony. While my wife was impressed with their messages, in one sense she was bothered because it seemed like this was a Jesus centered commercial venture. She doesn't think the money generated goes to any non-profit. So, do things like this bother anyone? I always cringe at things like Angel Moroni tie clips.

A quick internet check finds it’s not sponsored by Deseret Book....it’s a subsidiary of Deseret Book, they own the thing.

Reading their “things we love” list it’s obviously geared towards LDS women.

And, to your point, there is no mention regarding where the money goes. But there is a request to bring donations for refugees as a “service project”.


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[mUUser]

Our new ward is interesting. It approaches the U and downtown. As someone in my fifties, I'm a spring chicken in the HP group, although I can tell there's the beginning of a turnover phase as we have a few priests, more teachers and about 15 deacons. Another interesting observation is that the closer you move to city center, the more the wards have consolidated leaving only former bishops, presidents or GA's standing -- that's how it feels anyway. There must be a 20 or more members I've heard addressed as bishop or president. I'm certain there's a GA or three in the ward but can't verify for certain. There's six -- yes six -- MP's currently serving, and still there's a deep bench on which to draw, unless you're looking for leadership under 70 years old then it becomes a bit more challenging. As we've made our way from the east coast to Salt Lake city-center, the teachings are the same from place to place, but, the membership and its culture differs, if even slightly, from place to place. I've appreciated my time experiencing that.

[Scorcho]

crazy LDS story out of Woods Cross, I'm not surprised but ...

https://www.ksl.com/article/46311746/heavy-hit-during-church-game-leads-to-child-abuse-charge

I don't know if I've told this story before but my Bishop when I was about 12, resigned from being Bishop after about 6 weeks in his position and left the church because of a church basketball incident

[UtahsMrSports]

crazy LDS story out of Woods Cross, I'm not surprised but ...

https://www.ksl.com/article/46311746/heavy-hit-during-church-game-leads-to-child-abuse-charge

I don't know if I've told this story before but my Bishop when I was about 12, resigned from being Bishop after about 6 weeks in his position and left the church because of a church basketball incident

I get a kick out of the reporting here......KSL goes to this guy's house and of course he can't talk so they go to..........a random neighbor?

I am extremely ignorant here so maybe can help me out because the article sure didn't........In a case like this, are charges being filed because the parents of the boy are pressing charges or did the hospital pass along the info and the police looked into it themselves and determined that charges should be pressed?

[Sullyute]

crazy LDS story out of Woods Cross, I'm not surprised but ...

https://www.ksl.com/article/46311746/heavy-hit-during-church-game-leads-to-child-abuse-charge

I don't know if I've told this story before but my Bishop when I was about 12, resigned from being Bishop after about 6 weeks in his position and left the church because of a church basketball incident

I would love to hear that story!

[Diehard Ute]

I get a kick out of the reporting here......KSL goes to this guy's house and of course he can't talk so they go to..........a random neighbor?

I am extremely ignorant here so maybe can help me out because the article sure didn't........In a case like this, are charges being filed because the parents of the boy are pressing charges or did the hospital pass along the info and the police looked into it themselves and determined that charges should be pressed?

So in a case like this where no one was arrested initially, the police put together a screening packet. That packet has all of the interviews, evidence etc and that’s sent and/or presented to a district attorney (or prosecutor) who then determines what if any charges filed. On a felony level charge they can go forward even if there is reluctance from the victim to proceed

While police do make probably cause arrests, police never actually determine formal charges. That’s always up to the prosecuting attorney


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[Rocker Ute]

crazy LDS story out of Woods Cross, I'm not surprised but ...

https://www.ksl.com/article/46311746/heavy-hit-during-church-game-leads-to-child-abuse-charge

I don't know if I've told this story before but my Bishop when I was about 12, resigned from being Bishop after about 6 weeks in his position and left the church because of a church basketball incident

Now you've got to tell the story.


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[Scorcho]

Now you've got to tell the story.


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Dear Penthouse Forum,

I never thought this would happen to me ....

oops scratch that, wrong story :)

_______________

I was 12 or 13 when it “the incident” happened. Our new bishop loved basketball and played for our ward team. We used to hang out and watch them play, because during timeouts we’d run onto the court and shoot hoops. Our stake had a sweet court with one main court that ran North to South and two other courts that ran in the middle of it East to West. Our Stake court was as big as most high school gyms (and no carpet …. all wood baby).

During one game our ward men’s team were becoming frustrated with each other and things started to get heated. There was lots of finger pointing and banter with each other, “pass me the ball, I was wide open”, “you need to set a screen on that guy”, “rebound” type of stuff. The usual banter, but then it escalated. Before I describe “the incident” that led to us getting a brand newer bishop, I want to point out that this guy (our bishop of just a few weeks) was a good man. He was down to earth, caring, kind. Everyone thought he was an excellent choice to lead the ward. His fatal flaw was that when he played hoops, he transformed from Mr. Rodgers into Bill Laimbeer. He had a demon switch, he went from Mother Teresa lite to Nick Emery with a migraine quicker than a quarter mile with a borrowed friends Volkswagen Jetta. We’ve all played with this guy that considered a minor pickup game with a couple of guys the equivalent of playing for an Olympic gold medal. That was this guy. Off the court, he was just a regular easy going guy.

Our ward had one black family, and the dad played church basketball. During this game tempers continued to flare and I recall seeing a couple team members holding our bishop back from other players on his team. A couple swear words were dropped and our bishop shouted the “N” word! (Shudders), I’ll never forget that. It was completely awkward! Our Bishop finally calmed himself after a few of his friends calmed him and then he grabbed his stuff and left, never to return (okay that’s a bit dramatic, he would come once or twice a year if his kids were giving a talk or singing).

A few weeks later, we had a new bishop. I don’t know if he asked to be released or was canned. The black family in our ward that the “N’ word was directed too, moved out a few months later. I’m sure some apologies were offered, but it was probably just too uncomfortable for all involved.

Throughout my life, I’ve been in some great wards with great individuals with very little drama, but for whatever reason the ward that I grew up in as a kid had some bizarre/creepy incidents

[Scratch]

Where was this?

[Scorcho]

Where was this?

Layton, UT or as we used to call it Layun

[LA Ute]

Dear Penthouse Forum,

I never thought this would happen to me ....

oops scratch that, wrong story :)

_______________

I was 12 or 13 when it “the incident” happened. Our new bishop loved basketball and played for our ward team. We used to hang out and watch them play, because during timeouts we’d run onto the court and shoot hoops. Our stake had a sweet court with one main court that ran North to South and two other courts that ran in the middle of it East to West. Our Stake court was as big as most high school gyms (and no carpet …. all wood baby).

During one game our ward men’s team were becoming frustrated with each other and things started to get heated. There was lots of finger pointing and banter with each other, “pass me the ball, I was wide open”, “you need to set a screen on that guy”, “rebound” type of stuff. The usual banter, but then it escalated. Before I describe “the incident” that led to us getting a brand newer bishop, I want to point out that this guy (our bishop of just a few weeks) was a good man. He was down to earth, caring, kind. Everyone thought he was an excellent choice to lead the ward. His fatal flaw was that when he played hoops, he transformed from Mr. Rodgers into Bill Laimbeer. He had a demon switch, he went from Mother Teresa lite to Nick Emery with a migraine quicker than a quarter mile with a borrowed friends Volkswagen Jetta. We’ve all played with this guy that considered a minor pickup game with a couple of guys the equivalent of playing for an Olympic gold medal. That was this guy. Off the court, he was just a regular easy going guy.

Our ward had one black family, and the dad played church basketball. During this game tempers continued to flare and I recall seeing a couple team members holding our bishop back from other players on his team. A couple swear words were dropped and our bishop shouted the “N” word! (Shudders), I’ll never forget that. It was completely awkward! Our Bishop finally calmed himself after a few of his friends calmed him and then he grabbed his stuff and left, never to return (okay that’s a bit dramatic, he would come once or twice a year if his kids were giving a talk or singing).

A few weeks later, we had a new bishop. I don’t know if he asked to be released or was canned. The black family in our ward that the “N’ word was directed too, moved out a few months later. I’m sure some apologies were offered, but it was probably just too uncomfortable for all involved.

Throughout my life, I’ve been in some great wards with great individuals with very little drama, but for whatever reason the ward that I grew up in as a kid had some bizarre/creepy incidents

Sad story. Reminds me of the time when our stake athletic director got into a fight, in a basketball game, with one of the bishops in the stake who was on the opposing team. I was the high councilor with responsibility for athletics (a horrible assignment) and was very young. I had no idea what to do except to separate them (one of them was a huge guy, former college player). I went home that night shaking my head.

[Rocker Ute]

Sad story. Reminds me of the time when our stake athletic director got into a fight, in a basketball game, with one of the bishops in the stake who was on the opposing team. I was the high councilor with responsibility for athletics (a horrible assignment) and was very young. I had no idea what to do except to separate them (one of them was a huge guy, former college player). I went home that night shaking my head.


I can't imagine a scenario where a bishop playing basketball is a good idea. Seems like there are a few of these stories around.

My personal favorite story of legend in my current ward happened before I moved in. Two individuals were playing basketball on the same team, one guy was in his 40s-50s, the other was in his 70s. Some argument started and neither guy was known for holding their tongue in any scenario, but the younger of the two was particularly bad. Things escalated and the guy in his 70s knocked out the younger guy. Yup, a knock-out fight between two guys on the same team. Both got banned from church sports.

To give you add'l perspective on the younger guy, one time in class at church he wanted to make a comment. A man who was quadriplegic also wanted to make a comment at the same time and the instructor called on him. The same hothead stormed out of the room saying, "I guess you have to be in a wheelchair to get called on here!"

Yeah...

I don't know what he said in the game to get punched, but my guess is he deserved it.

[Sullyute]

Layton, UT or as we used to call it Layun

I grew up there too. Do you mind saying what neighborhood?

[UtahsMrSports]

My best church ball story (probably told it here before) also involved a bishop. It was region ball, so we didn't know any of the teams coming in. I was the stake officials coordinator. We got a guy in his 70s who had recently concluded a longgggg career of officiating varsity basketball.

As the final game of the night neared its conclusion, it was tight. A player on the team who was losing fouled a player on the winning team by grabbing his jersey (just trying to stop the clock). This ref called it a flagrant (two shots plus the ball). The losing team blew up and we called the game over. These guys were cursing this old man out. The bishop of their ward just left instead of getting his guys to settle down. I took it upon myself to jump in and take the brunt of their angry so that this old man could out to his car. One guy told me that I was the biggest @#$@# joke he had ever met. My crime was listening to him and keeping score, dont recall saying a word to him or anyone else outside of apologizing.

The high council rep was there and I told him I wanted to be released and I was. Haven't been back to a church ball game in any capacity since.

[Scorcho]

I grew up there too. Do you mind saying what neighborhood?

just East of Fairfield off of Cherry Ln

[Sullyute]

just East of Fairfield off of Cherry Ln

I have driven past your ward house countless times.

[Scorcho]

I have driven past your ward house countless times.

I understand the new temple is being built along Fairfield directly East of the Smiths on Gentile.

Which neighborhood did you grow up?

[LA Ute]

I understand the new temple is being built along Fairfield directly East of the Smiths on Gentile.

Which neighborhood did you grow up?

So directions to the temple will include “Just east of Gentile.” Love that.


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[Solon]

So directions to the temple will include “Just east of Gentile.” Love that.


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They'll have to re-name that street Gentile Court.

(It's a Jewish joke)

[mUUser]

If you come across a press release where Russell M. Nelson apologizes for past racism, beware, it's fake news....a hoax.....


https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/05/17/no-the-mormon-church-did-not-apologize-for-having-a-history-of-racism/

[UTEopia]

We attended a new Ward today that we will be attending for the next 6 months. The Elders' Quorum was having its council and passed around the new ministering assignments. Like most Wards, this one has several hundred names on its roster of people who nobody knows and few know anything about them. The discussion turned to how best to approach them. A few longtime Ward members said that they know there are people on that list who do not want contact from the Church and we should know that before we go out. A former MISSION PRESIDENT (he made sure everyone knew) said that somebody Featherstone once told him that there are no no contact lists in the Church. The guy then added that if we went out and someone said they did not want contact we should invite them to have their names removed from the records. Well, as a father of 2 legacy Mormons (my term for not active Mormons - another long story), I could not let that stand unchallenged. I said I have a returned missionary son who is not active and does not want any contact from the Church and I would hate it if someone said that to him. He replied, he is a man and can make up his own mind. I said that might be cool for you and your family, but that would not be cool with me. I was using my angry voice at this time. Another guy then spoke up that he totally disagreed with Bro. Mission President that in those cases you note the response and give it to the Elders' Quorum President and/or Bishop for further action if any. Afterwards, Bro. Mission President did apologize to me for his insensitivity and added that he has an inactive son and would not want him to remove his records from the Church, which made the earlier exchange even more bizarre.

[Rocker Ute]

We attended a new Ward today that we will be attending for the next 6 months. The Elders' Quorum was having its council and passed around the new ministering assignments. Like most Wards, this one has several hundred names on its roster of people who nobody knows and few know anything about them. The discussion turned to how best to approach them. A few longtime Ward members said that they know there are people on that list who do not want contact from the Church and we should know that before we go out. A former MISSION PRESIDENT (he made sure everyone knew) said that somebody Featherstone once told him that there are no no contact lists in the Church. The guy then added that if we went out and someone said they did not want contact we should invite them to have their names removed from the records. Well, as a father of 2 legacy Mormons (my term for not active Mormons - another long story), I could not let that stand unchallenged. I said I have a returned missionary son who is not active and does not want any contact from the Church and I would hate it if someone said that to him. He replied, he is a man and can make up his own mind. I said that might be cool for you and your family, but that would not be cool with me. I was using my angry voice at this time. Another guy then spoke up that he totally disagreed with Bro. Mission President that in those cases you note the response and give it to the Elders' Quorum President and/or Bishop for further action if any. Afterwards, Bro. Mission President did apologize to me for his insensitivity and added that he has an inactive son and would not want him to remove his records from the Church, which made the earlier exchange even more bizarre.

Weird thing for him to say. Having your names removed from the records is for believers to basically turn your backs to covenants you've made previously and should never be encouraged in that way.

He was way off base on that.


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[Rocker Ute]

In St George today, we just got a reading of the "Footprints" poem from a returned missionary. It's been a while, so I am happy to report it is back.

Although when he got to the single set of footprints I was hoping he'd say, "The Sand People travel single file to hide their numbers." Sadly he stuck to the poem.


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[LA Ute]

In St George today, we just got a reading of the "Footprints" poem from a returned missionary. It's been a while, so I am happy to report it is back.

Although when he got to the single set of footprints I was hoping he'd say, "The Sand People travel single file to hide their numbers." Sadly he stuck to the poem.


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Why would anyone be in St. George on a weekend during August?


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[Rocker Ute]

Why would anyone be in St. George on a weekend during August?


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To contrast the Bear Lake trip last week.

Actually St G was only 3 degrees warmer than SLC and the air was significantly more clean. And I'm trying to talk my wife into moving down there full-time.

[LA Ute]

To contrast the Bear Lake trip last week.

Actually St G was only 3 degrees warmer than SLC and the air was significantly more clean. And I'm trying to talk my wife into moving down there full-time.

This past week I flew from SLC to LA, and from LA to Fresno, and from Fresno to Salt Lake. The smoke in the air was astonishing. For large stretches the ground was barely visible.There was no letup from it anywhere along those three routes.

[Diehard Ute]

To contrast the Bear Lake trip last week.

Actually St G was only 3 degrees warmer than SLC and the air was significantly more clean. And I'm trying to talk my wife into moving down there full-time.

I had no idea you were 85


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[Scratch]

To contrast the Bear Lake trip last week.

Actually St G was only 3 degrees warmer than SLC and the air was significantly more clean. And I'm trying to talk my wife into moving down there full-time.

It's like you're jamming all of the Scratch youth family vacations into one summer!

[Solon]

I had no idea you were 85


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LOL. Bravo.

St. George is brutal in the summer.

[Scorcho]

LOL. Bravo.

St. George is brutal in the summer.

It was a cool 109 degrees last Saturday. I may/may not have been there last weekend. I am too fragile to say.

[Rocker Ute]

It was a cool 109 degrees last Saturday. I may/may not have been there last weekend. I am too fragile to say.

Its kind of like Phoenix... it is mandatory to have a pool to live there. I will say, I would take 3 months of heat and being trapped inside during daylight to the 5 months of cold and being trapped inside day and night and gunk in the air we get in SLC right now.

The ONLY thing that keeps me from losing my mind in the winter is a season ski pass that gets me out of the inversion and outdoors. In my household we are basically one season pass away from doing a Utah version of The Shining.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

It looks like the football team got busted performing baptisms on players again! De’Vonte Henry Cole turned his red shirt in for a white jump suit today. Cool.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180923/aba83b36a771bc63d40f795f2f13f811.jpg


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[chrisrenrut]

Just learned we are singing my two favorite hymns in church today, an I have no voice after the game last night. The sacrifices you make sometimes.

[LA Ute]

An elementary school teacher shared this Nibley quote in sacrament meeting today while talking about the Armistice Day anniversary:

“[I recall] certain dashing, wonderful men who, during World War II, used to brief the various units of the 101st Airborne Division which they were leading into battle. (The classic Leader's Oration before the Battle enjoyed a revival in airborne operations where the army, a short hour before the battle, could sit quietly on the grass one hundred miles from the enemy and listen to speeches.) It was the high point of their careers, the thing they had been working and hoping and looking forward to all their lives—to lead a crack regiment or division into battle, and they made the most of it. The feeling of euphoria was almost overpowering—they were smart, sharp, vigorous, compelling, eager, tense, exuding optimism and even humor, but above all excitement. Invariably General Maxwell Taylor would end his oration with: "Good hunting!" It was wonderful, thrilling; you were ready to follow that man anywhere.But before the operation was a day old, every man in the division was heartily wishing that he was anywhere else, doing anything else but that; everyone knew in his mind and heart that he was not sent to earth to engage in this nasty and immoral business. The heroism and sacrifice were real—the situation was utterly satanic and shameful; the POWs we rounded up to interrogate were men just as good as we were, the victims of a terrible circumstance that the devil's game of power and gain had woven around them.”

Great quote. Good reminder that we need to balance recognition of the horror and evil in war, on one side, against the bravery and sacrifice of those who fought and died, and stood in harm’s way for the rest of us, and gratitude we owe them.

[Scorcho]

we had a suicide in our ward this week, active LDS female, returned missionary, college graduate, married with 3 kids took her life. We heard 4-5 sirens close by that night, but didn't learn what had happened till the next day. Our bishop could barely get through conducting the sacrament service today, he was understandably overcome with emotion. It has been difficult and harrowing to watch and pretty humbling for our ward/neighborhood.

[LA Ute]

we had a suicide in our ward this week, active LDS female, returned missionary, college graduate, married with 3 kids took her life. We heard 4-5 sirens close by that night, but didn't learn what had happened till the next day. Our bishop could barely get through conducting the sacrament service today, he was understandably overcome with emotion. It has been difficult and harrowing to watch and pretty humbling for our ward/neighborhood.

How awful. I’m sure the ward is rallying around the family. There’s always a lot of pain, sadness, and anguish combined with guilt in those situations. A close colleague of mine just lost her brother to suicide last Thursday. He had a long history of mental illness, and she is now struggling with feelings of guilt over not doing more to help him. It is such a tough thing.

[Scorcho]

Ugh, I’m dreading today. The funeral is this afternoon for a lady in our ward/neighborhood that killed herself. I’ve been to funerals, but can’t ever recall attending one under these circumstances. Typically, I find LDS funerals mostly comforting, even when the death was someone young or if the death was sudden and unexpected. Usually I have a feeling of hope and comfort after, but this one just feels different (dark and bleak). My wife is struggling. Lots of mixed emotions of guilt, anger and sadness. Thanks for allowing me to vent, just needed to get it out somewhere.

[chrisrenrut]

Ugh, I’m dreading today. The funeral is this afternoon for a lady in our ward/neighborhood that killed herself. I’ve been to funerals, but can’t ever recall attending one under these circumstances. Typically, I find LDS funerals mostly comforting, even when the death was someone young or if the death was sudden and unexpected. Usually I have a feeling of hope and comfort after, but this one just feels different (dark and bleak). My wife is struggling. Lots of mixed emotions of guilt, anger and sadness. Thanks for allowing me to vent, just needed to get it out somewhere.

My wife's brother committed suicide around 15 years ago. It's an incredibly sad time. We felt many of the emotions come into play: sadness, anger, guilt, confusion. It can be hard to know how to feel, let alone provide solace and support to those closest to the victim. And sometimes religious doctrine doesn't give solace, but can make things worse.

It's been said that we won't be tempted beyond our ability to bear in this life, but the reality is that some mental illness is more than some can bear. It's impossible for us to know what thoughts were tormenting the person who chose to take their life. But our faith tells us that Christ knows their pain intimately, as well as those who are left behind.

[Scorcho]

My wife's brother committed suicide around 15 years ago. It's an incredibly sad time. We felt many of the emotions come into play: sadness, anger, guilt, confusion. It can be hard to know how to feel, let alone provide solace and support to those closest to the victim. And sometimes religious doctrine doesn't give solace, but can make things worse.

It's been said that we won't be tempted beyond our ability to bear in this life, but the reality is that some mental illness is more than some can bear. It's impossible for us to know what thoughts were tormenting the person who chose to take their life. But our faith tells us that Christ knows their pain intimately, as well as those who are left behind.

well said, TY

[Rocker Ute]

Ugh, I’m dreading today. The funeral is this afternoon for a lady in our ward/neighborhood that killed herself. I’ve been to funerals, but can’t ever recall attending one under these circumstances. Typically, I find LDS funerals mostly comforting, even when the death was someone young or if the death was sudden and unexpected. Usually I have a feeling of hope and comfort after, but this one just feels different (dark and bleak). My wife is struggling. Lots of mixed emotions of guilt, anger and sadness. Thanks for allowing me to vent, just needed to get it out somewhere.

We had a ward member commit suicide in our old ward a number of years ago - totally rocked the ward like it sounds like this one has. He had a wife and little boy and another baby on the way. Super good guy and I don't think anyone saw it coming.

His family (including his parents, siblings etc) were obviously devastated, but it also was one of the most comforting funerals I've ever been too. They focused a lot on the Atonement, forgiveness and how the spirit can comfort everyone. They focused on all of the good he brought into the world and didn't dwell on the circumstances. It was a rallying point for the ward around the family to support his wife and children.

I hope you (and her loved ones) can find similar comfort. Comfort is out there.

Edit to add:

This prompted me to look up his wife and see what was going on as we had lost contact a while back. She had remarried, and along with her first two sons from her husband who committed suicide has four more daughters. She had posted this on FB and I think it is worth posting here. I've removed some identifying info.


It's now been 13 years today since my first husband, Justin, died. Time continues to speed up and life continues to go on. For the first time, I'm starting to see Justin in Ty. The way Ty's eyes close and his shoulders shake when he laughs. Even his smile looks more and more like Justin's. Charlie has an adventurous heart just like his dad did. He loves any opportunity he has to jump on a 4 wheeler or be outdoors. It's incredible to me to see so much of a man inside both of them that wasn't there to raise them. I see this as further evidence that our loved ones are never really gone, that they are always a part of us.

I was able to spend an afternoon with [Justin's] family after [his] dad died. It had been years since I had seen some of them, but it was also as if no time had passed at all. I felt a deep familiar love for each of them. I believe this is what heaven will feel like. No matter how long the separation from our loved ones, we will recognize their smile and their laughter and reminisce about all of the good times we had together.

I also know it's a good thing to celebrate the life I have been given. I feel blessed to be married to a man who made every effort to understand and support Ty while he wrestled this past year. Jeff never cared about this sport, but he knew it was important to Ty and so it became important to him as well. He was there to take Chuck snowboarding and celebrate with him after doing a fantastic job as stage crew for his school's musical. He has been Ty's Home teaching companion this past year and has faithfully taken Ty and expected him to teach as well. He takes the boys to the temple monthly and makes Priesthood Conference something to be cherished and remembered rather than dreaded. He is who my boys need to push them to be their best. He is their biggest fan. He doesn't take this sacred role lightly.

I believe besides my boys and his family, Justin probably loves Jeff most of all. I have felt this many times in my heart. I know they will someday meet and embrace each other. I feel blessed to have been given the life I have. It isn't always easy. My boys still hurt, I still hurt. I'm not sure that will ever really go away, but I'm not sure it's supposed to. I feel blessed to still be involved in [Justin's families] lives. [They] are the most Christ-like people I've ever met. They have always embraced me no matter what the circumstance. How grateful I am for the life I've been given. It wasn't the life I had envisioned as a Young Woman sitting in my seminary class, but it was the life I needed.

[LA Ute]

My wife's brother committed suicide around 15 years ago. It's an incredibly sad time. We felt many of the emotions come into play: sadness, anger, guilt, confusion. It can be hard to know how to feel, let alone provide solace and support to those closest to the victim. And sometimes religious doctrine doesn't give solace, but can make things worse.

It's been said that we won't be tempted beyond our ability to bear in this life, but the reality is that some mental illness is more than some can bear. It's impossible for us to know what thoughts were tormenting the person who chose to take their life. But our faith tells us that Christ knows their pain intimately, as well as those who are left behind.

The CHOI makes it clear that we should understand that people who commit suicide often (I would say usually) are not able to make good decisions. They may be buried in temple clothes. And, Elder Renlund recently spoke about the subject:


There's an old sectarian notion that suicide is a sin and that someone who commits suicide is banished to hell forever. That is totally false," Elder Renlund said. "I believe the vast majority of cases will find that these individuals have lived heroic lives and that that suicide will not be a defining characteristic of their eternities."

Short video of him here:


https://youtu.be/hCR8tWKEbxo

[Scorcho]

The CHOI makes it clear that we should understand that people who commit suicide often (I would say usually) are not able to make good decisions. They may be buried in temple clothes. And, Elder Renlund recently spoke about the subject:



Short video of him here:


https://youtu.be/hCR8tWKEbxo

Great insight.

I know growing up I always considered suicide a sin. I believe it was referred to as such in MConkie's Mormon Doctrine. It seems that topic has evolved for the better over the years.

[UTEopia]

We had a great discussion on the Beatitudes today. I will be pure in heart when I see God in Trump.

[mUUser]

FAT is a dangerous meeting. The YW were in charge of the microphones and you would have thought the church made some amazing equality breakthrough. Every man over 70 that participated was “thrilled by the progress”, and were “grateful to finally have true equality” in the church. One old timer really let the men have it — we just haven’t been faithful enough and have got to do better if we’re gonna keep up with the sisters. He is so disappointed in the men in the church.

Sometimes that meeting is surreal.

[Rocker Ute]

FAT is a dangerous meeting. The YW were in charge of the microphones and you would have thought the church made some amazing equality breakthrough. Every man over 70 that participated was “thrilled by the progress”, and were “grateful to finally have true equality” in the church. One old timer really let the men have it — we just haven’t been faithful enough and have got to do better if we’re gonna keep up with the sisters. He is so disappointed in the men in the church.

Sometimes that meeting is surreal.

Open mic night.


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[Scorcho]

Sacrament meeting opening prayer yesterday, a woman asked for a blessing on President Benson.

Whoops.

Unless she knows something we don't know.

[Scorcho]

No ward Mothers Day gifts this year. First time I recall them not giving something out. Not a big deal, but I thought it was a nice tradition.

[Sullyute]

No ward Mothers Day gifts this year. First time I recall them not giving something out. Not a big deal, but I thought it was a nice tradition.

Honestly, there was probably too much infighting on what the gift should be that it was just easier to give nothing. Our ward gave a rose in a vase to any woman 18 and older. We had about two dozen left over.

[chrisrenrut]

Honestly, there was probably too much infighting on what the gift should be that it was just easier to give nothing. Our ward gave a rose in a vase to any woman 18 and older. We had about two dozen left over.

In all the wards I have been in, the Mother's Day gifts have been left up to the SS presidency. The SS presidency positions don't usually go to the most reliable guys in the ward. Usually retired guys too old or apathetic for more important callings, or younger guys who need a calling that doesn't require much time or effort.

I was SS president for a while (one of they younger guys, too busy at work for a calling with a lot of time restraints), and I think the Mother's Day gift was the one big responsibility I had, other than filling in for teachers who didn't bother getting their own substitutes.