Allegations Chris Hill Ignored Swim Team Abuses...

[SeattleUte]

You always were lousy with google.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=utah+swim+coach+greg+winslow

nytimes, espn, sports illustrated, ...

I don't see NYtimes and SI. ESPN is describing what Utah is doing. This story is not about utah ignoring problems or covering anyting up. It's about this coach's behavior other than on these boards, Yahoo!, and local hacks parroting yahoo!. Sorry BYU fans and Chris Hill haters, but Utah had no motive to protect this guy.

[LA Ute]

What on earth are you talking about? The only thing I am seeing here is you, PU, and LAU whining about a thread on another board.

Lol. So says the guy who keeps coming here to make sure no one is criticizing his board and insisting on its benign nature.

[LA Ute]

I'm going on what Port said. Has there been talk on CS about this message board devolving in some way based on the caliber of posters, and what Jarid will to do control that? If so, my only point is that's laughable given the garbage that CJ posts on your site, regardless of whether he's doing it as a troll or a genuine jerk.

They've devoted an entire long thread to mocking what goes on here.

[GarthUte]

They've devoted an entire long thread to mocking what goes on here.

ummm... we've done the same here.

[SeattleUte]

They've devoted an entire long thread to mocking what goes on here.

Fools mock but they shall mourn.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Also, a thread entitled "Penn State 2.0" is muted? Lol.

There are 13 references to Penn State in the CS thread. There are 39 references in this thread.

Whoops. Hurry and make another post about CJ!

[Jeff Lebowski]

ummm... we've done the same here.



LOL. That is hilarious. LAU is so busted.

[Jarid in Cedar]

There are 13 references to Penn State in the CS thread. There are 39 references in this thread.

Whoops. Hurry and make another post about CJ!


And probably 24 of them are by SCP, or quoted SCP posts

EDIT: I had to count, only 14, and 3 by you and this one by me quoting you.

[Scratch]

They've devoted an entire long thread to mocking what goes on here.

I knew there was a reason I haven't been over there since right after the name change. I should have known better than to follow the link over there today.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I don't see NYtimes and SI. ESPN is describing what Utah is doing. This story is not about utah ignoring problems or covering anyting up. It's about this coach's behavior other than on these boards, Yahoo!, and local hacks parroting yahoo!. Sorry BYU fans and Chris Hill haters, but Utah had no motive to protect this guy.

Like I said, you don't know how to do a google search. Down at the bottom of the page, there are links multiple pages of search results. The link I gave you returned 39 pages of links to stories. If you click through those links, you will find several like this:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130228/utah-suspends-swim-coach-over-abuse-allegations/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/university-of-utah-to-launch-outside-investigation-of-suspended-swim-coach-greg-winslow/2013/03/11/6f4aa38c-8a7f-11e2-a88e-461ffa2e34e4_story.html

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2013/03/11/utah-swimming-greg-winslow-allegations-sexual-abuse-physical-abuse/1979771/

Now you can continue to put your head in the sand and pretend that this is a local story, but it is getting major traction.

[LA Ute]

ummm... we've done the same here.



Yes, one of our guys (a former CUFer) did that as a joke here, in response to their thread. If you've seen both threads there's no comparison.

[LA Ute]

It's pretty clear now that next, JL is going to challenge Jarid to a duel. Smartphones at sunrise. SU will be Jarid's second, cougjunkie JL's.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Like I said, you don't know how to do a google search. Down at the bottom of the page, there are links multiple pages of search results. The link I gave you returned 39 pages of links to stories. If you click through those links, you will find several like this:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130228/utah-suspends-swim-coach-over-abuse-allegations/



This is a detail out of the SI article that I had not read before:


Concussion Inc. first reported the allegations involving the unidentified teenage swimmer at an Arizona club. In a statement to the website, Winslow said, "These are extremely serious allegations, and if I am accused, I will certainly respond."University of Utah police were made aware of the ASU investigation in December, said University of Utah spokesman Keith Sterling. He said ASU police asked them to keep it confidential to avoid compromising the case.
"Our police department abided by that," Sterling said. "That is why the university administration, nor the athletic department, was aware of this until it came to light last night on the Internet."
Sterling said the university is changing its rules to prevent this from happening again. In the future, university police will be called on to advise university administration when they have knowledge of these type of allegations, he said.
"We believe the university should be notified of this serious information," Sterling said.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130228/utah-suspends-swim-coach-over-abuse-allegations/#ixzz2NOkYG5ZJ

Explains some of the delay in action on Winslow this winter. I am assuming they contacted the University police to ascertain if they had received any complaints about Winslow during his time at Utah.

[UtahDan]

I sincerely wish people would stop taking the bait from BYU fans and worrying about what they think.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It's pretty clear now that next, JL is going to challenge Jarid to a duel. Smartphones at sunrise. SU will be Jarid's second, cougjunkie JL's.

That makes zero sense. I think Jarid is great.

[Moliere]

ummm... we've done the same here.


341

[LA Ute]

That makes zero sense. I think Jarid is great.

Joke.

[concerned]

After skimming the last few pages of this thread, I feel like a muggle who has some foggy sense that there is a wizard world out there but isn't sure what to make of it and doesn't really want to know any more. I guess that makes me Dudley.

[Jarid in Cedar]

After skimming the last few pages of this thread, I feel like a muggle who has some foggy sense that there is a wizard world out there but isn't sure what to make of it and doesn't really want to know any more. I guess that makes me Dudley.

:rofl:

[Jarid in Cedar]

I'm an outsider, so let me get this straight. A group from another board stalks this board to see if posters from a third board are here reducing the "caliber" of content on this board. Then they return to their own board to trash this board and the third board?

My 5-year-old had a huge tantrum this week when I cheated during a family night game in order to help the 2-year-old finally win and feel good. At the time, I was certain it would be the most immature thing I would see all week. Leave it to a bunch of sports fans to prove me wrong.

It seems from what I am reading that this board was created by freed Ute fans after fleeing an abusive relationship. I suppose insecurity is to be expected. The faster both sides leave each other alone, the better.

You covered all the bases pretty well. I expected that inter board politics would be a hot button topic when founding this site. But even my generous estimation of that dynamic has been trampled.

I didn't start it as a response to any other site. The Genesis had its start about year ago. Events on a previous board finally pushed things to reality, but I probably would have got it off the ground within the year regardless. I hope people will spend time here because they enjoy it, not because they are running from other sites.

[SoCalPat]

I sincerely wish people would stop taking the bait from BYU fans and worrying about what they think.

This is the greatest post ever made. This thread was at 8 pages last night and at 10 when I woke up. Surely something happened worth debating, right?

Instead I get (mostly) two pages of juvenile fighting between message board factions. What a disappointment. Although JiC's discovery that I had actually said less about Penn State than he originally thought was a revelation.

[LA Ute]

It seems from what I am reading that this board was created by freed Ute fans after fleeing an abusive relationship.

Not totally abusive but mainly one that had just gone bad, as in "You're not the person I married [the board I joined] anymore." Switching metaphors completely, Jarid was the prophet who led us out of Egypt. Most important, IMO, this board meets a need no one else was meeting.

[U-Ute]

JL defending the honor of his board.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JGp7Meg42U

[Scratch]

One more small thing worth noting regarding the swimming story. As you all probably saw, it was announced a couple of days ago that Doug Knuth has been recommended to be Nevada's next AD. That just means that the board of regents has to approve him, which is essentially just a formality. This means one of two things:

a) Nevada doesn't think the allegations are a big deal at all, or
b) Nevada looked into the allegations, which would probably involve some significant discussions and possibly the review of records, and came away convinced that there is nothing there for them to be worried about.

Frankly, I would be surprised if it isn't b. Also, for all the absurd PSU comparisons, I'm pretty confident that the Associate AD from PSU wasn't made AD anywhere while the allegations were pending or since the story broke.

[GarthUte]

341

I know who Ed Norton is, but I have no idea what this photo is.

[LA Ute]

I know who Ed Norton is, but I have no idea what this photo is.

It's on Moliere's office wall.

[USS Utah]

ummm... we've done the same here.



Hm, I don't have permission to access that page.

[GarthUte]

Hm, I don't have permission to access that page.

It's a photo in post #270 in this thread, some still shot of a movie Norton is in.

[USS Utah]

It's a photo in post #270 in this thread, some still shot of a movie Norton is in.

The link in #258 was to the photo in #270?

As long as it wasn't to another speakeasy.

[SoCalPat]

One more small thing worth noting regarding the swimming story. As you all probably saw, it was announced a couple of days ago that Doug Knuth has been recommended to be Nevada's next AD. That just means that the board of regents has to approve him, which is essentially just a formality. This means one of two things:

a) Nevada doesn't think the allegations are a big deal at all, or
b) Nevada looked into the allegations, which would probably involve some significant discussions and possibly the review of records, and came away convinced that there is nothing there for them to be worried about.

Frankly, I would be surprised if it isn't b. Also, for all the absurd PSU comparisons, I'm pretty confident that the Associate AD from PSU wasn't made AD anywhere while the allegations were pending or since the story broke.

Knuth is in charge of fundraising and from my understanding of his and similarly titled admins at collegiate athletic departments, had little to nothing to do with sport oversight. There is zero connection between Knuth and this story, either at Utah or with prospective employers. It doesn't provide a hint of what is or isn't to come.

[LA Ute]

Knuth is in charge of fundraising and from my understanding of his and similarly titled admins at collegiate athletic departments, had little to nothing to do with sport oversight. There is zero connection between Knuth and this story, either at Utah or with prospective employers. It doesn't provide a hint of what is or isn't to come.

It is true that he is the head of the Crimson Club and has nothing to do with oversight of any teams. That's probably all Nevada needed to know.

[Rocker Ute]

Not totally abusive but mainly one that had just gone bad, as in "You're not the person I married [the board I joined] anymore." Switching metaphors completely, Jarid was the prophet who led us out of Egypt. Most important, IMO, this board meets a need no one else was meeting.

Mixed metaphors are the literary tools you need to slay your readers until they start falling like a deck of cards. Checkmate.

[Scratch]

Knuth is in charge of fundraising and from my understanding of his and similarly titled admins at collegiate athletic departments, had little to nothing to do with sport oversight. There is zero connection between Knuth and this story, either at Utah or with prospective employers. It doesn't provide a hint of what is or isn't to come.

So you think Penn State's associate AD for anything could have landed a job as AD at another D1 school regardless of his role in the coverup? Would Nevada hire an AD from a school that it believes could have a major scandal surrounding its athletic department, regardless of that individual's role in the scandal?

[LA Ute]

Mixed metaphors are the literary tools you need to slay your readers until they start falling like a deck of cards. Checkmate.

Well said. Sometimes you just have to pull out all the stops and swing the hammer hard. It's a delicate bit of marksmanship.

[Scratch]

Knuth is in charge of fundraising and from my understanding of his and similarly titled admins at collegiate athletic departments, had little to nothing to do with sport oversight. There is zero connection between Knuth and this story, either at Utah or with prospective employers. It doesn't provide a hint of what is or isn't to come.


It is true that he is the head of the Crimson Club and has nothing to do with oversight of any teams. That's probably all Nevada needed to know.

So you are both agreeing with my option a, that Nevada doesn't think the allegations are a big deal, because if they did there's no way they would hire someone from the U's athletic department even if he technically had nothing to do with sports oversight.

[Jeromy in SLC]

I know who Ed Norton is, but I have no idea what this photo is.

Looks like one of the last scenes of The Italian Job.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[Rocker Ute]

Knuth is in charge of fundraising and from my understanding of his and similarly titled admins at collegiate athletic departments, had little to nothing to do with sport oversight. There is zero connection between Knuth and this story, either at Utah or with prospective employers. It doesn't provide a hint of what is or isn't to come.

Sorry Bob Woodward, I disagree. Hiring someone from a school and department purportedly embroiled in scandal would certainly give pause, I don't care about the involvement. We just recently did that with a low-level employee of a company going through some problems. We wanted to do our due diligence to make sure this person wasn't involved in any way, or bringing with him the reputation of the company he was leaving.

I agree, Knuth has no oversight and is just involved in the CC and likely has no connection. However, for those who aren't familiar with the specifics of our program (such as Nevada at-large) I am sure they would want to know what exactly was going on and how it might come back to bite them.

Knuth was almost certainly questioned about his knowledge and involvement of what is going on, and if not, he certainly will be by the Board of Regents. They likely did their own legwork regarding this too.

[LA Ute]

So you are both agreeing with my option a, that Nevada doesn't think the allegations are a big deal, because if they did there's no way they would hire someone from the U's athletic department even if he technically had nothing to do with sports oversight.

I think Nevada wouldn't have touched him -- and would either rescind the offer or put it on hold -- if they thought there was any stench affecting the entire athletic department like the odor at PSU. I guess that could still happen. Personally, I hope Doug doesn't suffer for the sins of others in the Athletic Department. He's a great guy.

[SoCalPat]

So you are both agreeing with my option a, that Nevada doesn't think the allegations are a big deal, because if they did there's no way they would hire someone from the U's athletic department even if he technically had nothing to do with sports oversight.

I'm not going to speak for what Nevada thinks of the allegations, but the entire Winslow affair does not automatically make everyone within Utah's athletic department poisonous. Knuth's job candidacy and the investigation into the swim program are about as unrelated as you can get.

[SoCalPat]

Sorry Bob Woodward, I disagree. Hiring someone from a school and department purportedly embroiled in scandal would certainly give pause, I don't care about the involvement. We just recently did that with a low-level employee of a company going through some problems. We wanted to do our due diligence to make sure this person wasn't involved in any way, or bringing with him the reputation of the company he was leaving.

I agree, Knuth has no oversight and is just involved in the CC and likely has no connection. However, for those who aren't familiar with the specifics of our program (such as Nevada at-large) I am sure they would want to know what exactly was going on and how it might come back to bite them.

Knuth was almost certainly questioned about his knowledge and involvement of what is going on, and if not, he certainly will be by the Board of Regents. They likely did their own legwork regarding this too.

I don't ever recall saying Nevada wouldn't ask questions, or that they ignore due diligence. I'm just saying the same thing most of us agree on -- that Knuth's position at Utah isn't tarnished by what's happening in the swim program and wouldn't keep him from gaining an increased position elsewhere. Nevada has or will discover that quickly.

[LA Ute]

342

(This is TIC and directed at all of us, including me.)

[Scratch]

I don't ever recall saying Nevada wouldn't ask questions, or that they ignore due diligence. I'm just saying the same thing most of us agree on -- that Knuth's position at Utah isn't tarnished by what's happening in the swim program and wouldn't keep him from gaining an increased position elsewhere. Nevada has or will discover that quickly.

Pat, as I recall you've made numerous posts here comparing this to Penn State. Do you really believe that if this was similar to PSU in any way whatsoever that Knuth's position wouldn't have been tainted regardless of his role in the department?

[Rocker Ute]

I don't ever recall saying Nevada wouldn't ask questions, or that they ignore due diligence. I'm just saying the same thing most of us agree on -- that Knuth's position at Utah isn't tarnished by what's happening in the swim program and wouldn't keep him from gaining an increased position elsewhere. Nevada has or will discover that quickly.

You said, "There is zero connection between Knuth and this story, either at Utah or with prospective employers." in response to saying that Nevada would have looked into the allegations before making a hire. Since some want to pretend that this 'scandal' is somehow on scope with PSU and Sandusky, let me ask you this question: Would you hire a soul associated with Penn State right now, or accept the U hiring someone from there?

Even if the person was clean you'd probably say something like, "Let a lesser school clear up his name."

Since not all has been exposed as to what has happened both at the U and ASU, I'm sure they'd want to know exactly to what extent these issues went and how deeply into the department they ran. Even if Knuth had no oversight, you don't want to hire a guy under the tutelage of a guy who was running a department out of control.

[Rocker Ute]

Pat, as I recall you've made numerous posts here comparing this to Penn State. Do you really believe that if this was similar to PSU in any way whatsoever that Knuth's position wouldn't have been tainted regardless of his role in the department?

Scratch, you have a great mind (see below).

[Two Utes]

Here is what I don't get, Pat. This is a Ute fans board. Your posts take the direction that you want, or are least are hoping, that there is more to this story and that you want, or hope, that it becomes a big deal. In response to your posts, most have not really argued that there is nothing to the story; instead I read most of the responses to your posts as let's not jump to any conclusions until we see more evidence from the investigation or the response that you would think Yahoo would have provided better specifics of the correspondence to and from Hill if it existed.

Are you hopeful this blows up into a big deal and if so, why?

[Scratch]

Scratch, you have a great mind (see below).

There's nothing below. Well, I guess there is now, but there wasn't before.

[Rocker Ute]

There's nothing below. Well, I guess there is now, but there wasn't before.

Damn these new fangled message boards. See above rather.

[SoCalPat]

Pat, as I recall you've made numerous posts here comparing this to Penn State. Do you really believe that if this was similar to PSU in any way whatsoever that Knuth's position wouldn't have been tainted regardless of his role in the department?

You're muddying the waters here, since I have never said this is Penn State 2.0. There are similar elements to what happened at PSU, like our (take your pick or use your own) slow/indifferent/overly-cautious response to the allegations when they first surfaced. But saying that Nevada's hiring of Knuth should mean there's no seriousness to the allegations at Utah is akin to USC saying nothing happened at Penn State because they gave a scholarship to Silas Redd.

[Scratch]

You're muddying the waters here, since I have never said this is Penn State 2.0. There are similar elements to what happened at PSU, like our (take your pick or use your own) slow/indifferent/overly-cautious response to the allegations when they first surfaced. But saying that Nevada's hiring of Knuth should mean there's no seriousness to the allegations at Utah is akin to USC saying nothing happened at Penn State because they gave a scholarship to Silas Redd.

Silas Redd? Talk about muddying the waters. Well, not murkying the waters, because Silas Redd is such an extreme non-starter. As for the seriousness of the allegations, I'll stand by me position that IF Nevada believed the allegations were very serious, they would have looked into it to some extent. If they looked into it and still hired Knuth, that bodes well for the U, although we're certainly free to disagree on just how much weight could be placed on this hypothetical due diligence.

[SoCalPat]

Here is what I don't get, Pat. This is a Ute fans board. Your posts take the direction that you want, or are least are hoping, that there is more to this story and that you want, or hope, that it becomes a big deal. In response to your posts, most have not really argued that there is nothing to the story; instead I read most of the responses to your posts as let's not jump to any conclusions until we see more evidence from the investigation or the response that you would think Yahoo would have provided better specifics of the correspondence to and from Hill if it existed.

Are you hopeful this blows up into a big deal and if so, why?

I'm hopeful that the right thing is done, sooner rather than later. That's what I'm hopeful for.

My anger or disappointment against what I perceive to be silly arguments or courtroom nitpicking against most of what's been alleged by the swimmers and their parents shouldn't be confused with me rubbing my hands with glee over what's happening.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I'm hopeful that the right thing is done, sooner rather than later. That's what I'm hopeful for.

My anger or disappointment against what I perceive to be silly arguments or courtroom nitpicking against most of what's been alleged by the swimmers and their parents shouldn't be confused with me rubbing my hands with glee over what's happening.

To say that we have only heard one side to the story is nitpicking and a silly argument? :blink:

[USS Utah]

I'm hopeful that the right thing is done, sooner rather than later. That's what I'm hopeful for.

My anger or disappointment against what I perceive to be silly arguments or courtroom nitpicking against most of what's been alleged by the swimmers and their parents shouldn't be confused with me rubbing my hands with glee over what's happening.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think you overcorrected.

[SoCalPat]

To say that we have only heard one side to the story is nitpicking and a silly argument? :blink:

No, to say unequivocally we shouldn't make judgments based on what has been said because we've only heard one side of the story -- that's a silly argument. We're all armchair QBs. How many times have we second-guessed what happened on the field during a game before Kyle got to explain it in his post-game presser?

[Diehard Ute]

No, to say unequivocally we shouldn't make judgments based on what has been said because we've only heard one side of the story -- that's a silly argument. We're all armchair QBs. How many times have we second-guessed what happened on the field during a game before Kyle got to explain it in his post-game presser?

Do you throw darts at the wall to come up with your comparisons?

[Scratch]

No, to say unequivocally we shouldn't make judgments based on what has been said because we've only heard one side of the story -- that's a silly argument. We're all armchair QBs. How many times have we second-guessed what happened on the field during a game before Kyle got to explain it in his post-game presser?

Sorry Pat, you're reaching again.

1) When we critique a play that we saw on the field, we have a lot larger portion of the information than we have here.
2) There's a big difference between saying "why would the OC call that play in that situation with that personnel package? What a moron," and saying "I'm ashamed of my alma mater, Chris Hill is a horrible person and should lose his job and be publicly ridiculed, and has lots of similarities to Tim Curley."

[Rocker Ute]

No, to say unequivocally we shouldn't make judgments based on what has been said because we've only heard one side of the story -- that's a silly argument. We're all armchair QBs. How many times have we second-guessed what happened on the field during a game before Kyle got to explain it in his post-game presser?

Oh come on Pat. It is hardly a silly argument. Just yesterday a new fact came to light that at least one swimmer out there doesn't agree what was labeled as abuse was abuse. He noted that it was a common training technique all the swimmers were doing. That alone has changed the very complexion of the story.

Your posting on the matter has gone far beyond armchair quarterbacking. You've never even taken an ounce of moderation of saying, "This doesn't LOOK good..." you've labeled it as the undoing of Chris Hill and gross negligence of the department under his watch. You've been dealing in a lot of absolutes.

[SoCalPat]

Sorry Pat, you're reaching again.

1) When we critique a play that we saw on the field, we have a lot larger portion of the information than we have here.
2) There's a big difference between saying "why would the OC call that play in that situation with that personnel package? What a moron," and saying "I'm ashamed of my alma mater, Chris Hill is a horrible person and should lose his job and be publicly ridiculed, and has lots of similarities to Tim Curley."

You must have a very difficult time getting people to agree with you, what with all the words you put in people's mouths. Past my comments on Hill's job status, all of what you said either bluster, hyperbole or grossly taken out of context.

[Rocker Ute]

You must have a very difficult time getting people to agree with you, what with all the words you put in people's mouths. Past my comments on Hill's job status, all of what you said either bluster, hyperbole or grossly taken out of context.

If only there were a way to go back and see what you actually said in this thread...

[SoCalPat]

Oh come on Pat. It is hardly a silly argument. Just yesterday a new fact came to light that at least one swimmer out there doesn't agree what was labeled as abuse was abuse. He noted that it was a common training technique all the swimmers were doing. That alone has changed the very complexion of the story1.

Your posting on the matter has gone far beyond armchair quarterbacking. You've never even taken an ounce of moderation of saying, "This doesn't LOOK good..." you've labeled it as the undoing of Chris Hill and gross negligence of the department2 under his watch. You've been dealing in a lot of absolutes3.

1. Every SOB has their teacher's pet. If the number of supporters gets close to the number of critics, I would change my tune.

2. Are you saying there hasn't been some degree of gross negligence on the part of the AD's office? Or is it part-and-parcel for credible news organizations to run damaging, untrue stories against athletic departments?

3. At least I'm consistent.

[Scratch]

There are similar elements to what happened at PSU, like our (take your pick or use your own) slow/indifferent/overly-cautious response to the allegations when they first surfaced.



2) There's a big difference between saying "why would the OC call that play in that situation with that personnel package? What a moron," and saying "I'm ashamed of my alma mater, Chris Hill is a horrible person and should lose his job and be publicly ridiculed, and has lots of similarities to Tim Curley."


You must have a very difficult time getting people to agree with you, what with all the words you put in people's mouths. Past my comments on Hill's job status, all of what you said either bluster, hyperbole or grossly taken out of context.

This is without going back to look at your earlier comments which, if I recall correctly, contained even more comparisons to this to PSU.

Additionally, my comment quoted above wasn't intended to apply solely to you, but also to the other "armchair quarterbacks" who have definitely been making premature judgments. I've been addressing this as a discussion differentiating the various approaches taken here, admittedly with some of your posts as the fodder for doing so, but not with the assumption that I'm only talking about you.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Fascinating. Could you describe Yahoo's methodology on this story, seeing as how you say they are a credible sports news organization?

[SoCalPat]

Fascinating. Could you describe Yahoo's methodology on this story, seeing as how you say they are a credible sports news organization?

You tell me how they're not and I'll respond.

[Scratch]

2. Are you saying there hasn't been some degree of gross negligence on the part of the AD's office? Or is it part-and-parcel for credible news organizations to run damaging, untrue stories against athletic departments?

Are you saying there has been? Because all I'm saying is that there may have been, but we certainly don't know that at this point (hence people's disagreements with the use of absolutes), and while there are certainly areas of very significant concern, the fact is that the Yahoo piece left a lot of questions out there.

One thing that appears to be 100% certain, as long as we like absolutes, is that no one, including the Yahoo story, has alleged facts showing some degree of gross negligence by the athletic department. Therefore, it's not accurate to say that the "we need to wait and see" crowd is saying Yahoo ran untrue stories.

[Diehard Ute]

1. Every SOB has their teacher's pet. If the number of supporters gets close to the number of critics, I would change my tune.

2. Are you saying there hasn't been some degree of gross negligence on the part of the AD's office? Or is it part-and-parcel for credible news organizations to run damaging, untrue stories against athletic departments?

3. At least I'm consistent.

Number of critics? The highest count of critics so far is 7 I believe. Interesting to note the swimmer who came forward yesterday was never contacted during the investigation. Odd the "teachers pet" was left out. He also criticized Winslow for the sexual allegation. And of the 'critics' we've heard little first hand. Most of the information has come from a single parent who has made inflammatory comments that border on blackmail and extortion.

As for your comments on negligence, we don't have the information to know if that's true or not. But you seem hell bent to make that assumption because you don't believe the media has the ability to be wrong. Sadly, that's you burying your head in the sand. The media is often incorrect, to say otherwise is silly. Especially when every media outlet is trying to get the scoop in this instant news world.

[Rocker Ute]

1. Every SOB has their teacher's pet. If the number of supporters gets close to the number of critics, I would change my tune.

2. Are you saying there hasn't been some degree of gross negligence on the part of the AD's office? Or is it part-and-parcel for credible news organizations to run damaging, untrue stories against athletic departments?

3. At least I'm consistent.



I'm saying like just about every other person in this thread that we don't know if there was negligence yet. It very well may be revealed there was, and with the VERY limited facts that are in the public now it certainly doesn't look good.

However, other information is coming to light, that is both public and not that seems to indicate that things are not as bad as they may appear right now, and also that 'credible news organizations' have actually not done their due diligence.

Like I've said all along, if Hill or the department was ignoring or covering up knowledge of abuse then he needs to go. However there are many other things out there that make that hard to believe.

But measured reasoning doesn't sell papers like rash decisions and scandal, so I don't expect you to understand that.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Certainly they have a verifiable smoking gun on this story, in addition to the testimonial from disgruntled team members and their parents? Surely they have enough info gathered fiber by fiber from internal sources to weave a rope sufficient to hang Chris Hill and the rest of the AD? Surely they can prove the claims of a few student-athletes are in fact more credible than the others whose claims are opposed to the allegations?

I am not an apologist for Chris Hill. I just want to see the actual facts of this case before I will accept it as a 'scandal'.

[SoCalPat]

Number of critics? The highest count of critics so far is 7 I believe. Interesting to note the swimmer who came forward yesterday was never contacted during the investigation1. Odd the "teachers pet" was left out. He also criticized Winslow for the sexual allegation. And of the 'critics' we've heard little first hand. Most of the information has come from a single parent who has made inflammatory comments that border on blackmail and exextortion

As for your comments on negligence, we don't have the information to know if that's true or not. But you seem he'll bent to make that assumption because you don't believe the media has the ability to be wrong. Sadly, that's you burying your head in the sand. The media is often incorrect, to say otherwise is silly2. Especially when every media outlet is trying to get the scoop in this instant news world.

1. Lots of people were left out of the OEO investigation. For several, the Yahoo piece was the first forum in which they were given a voice.

2. The media is wrong in several instances. There, I said it. But when has Yahoo been this wrong on matters of college sports? Ask Reggie Bush and the University of Miami. Most of us have (or should have) applauded Dan Wetzel's work in skewering the BCS for years. This isn't the SL Tribune or some other less-credible media outlet we're talking about, and to put their work on the same level as Yahoo, now that's just as silly as saying the media is never wrong.

[Diehard Ute]

1. Lots of people were left out of the OEO investigation. For several, the Yahoo piece was the first forum in which they were given a voice.

2. The media is wrong in several instances. There, I said it. But when has Yahoo been this wrong on matters of college sports? Ask Reggie Bush and the University of Miami. Most of us have (or should have) applauded Dan Wetzel's work in skewering the BCS for years. This isn't the SL Tribune or some other less-credible media outlet we're talking about, and to put their work on the same level as Yahoo, now that's just as silly as saying the media is never wrong.

And most of us aren't automatically biased towards the media like you are. Something you seem to forget.

Until we hear both sides, and Yahoo coughs up more than what they have (which even you must admit is very little other than statements from a very small group of people) I'm not willing to make judgements either way.

You can continue to tell us how wonderful the media, and especially Yahoo is, but I'll take your love of your own with a grain of salt.

[Scratch]

2. The media is wrong in several instances. There, I said it. But when has Yahoo been this wrong on matters of college sports? Ask Reggie Bush and the University of Miami. Most of us have (or should have) applauded Dan Wetzel's work in skewering the BCS for years. This isn't the SL Tribune or some other less-credible media outlet we're talking about, and to put their work on the same level as Yahoo, now that's just as silly as saying the media is never wrong.

Pat, the issue isn't that the Yahoo piece is wrong; it's tough to be wrong when an entire piece is just "person X told me Y and Z." The problems are 1) there are lots of holes in the article regarding what was known when, as well as now documented reports that what is being reported as abuse was actually standard training techniques, and not considered abusive by at least some swimmers; and 2) a lot of the people who are reacting to the article seem to be glossing over those holes and, in some instances, inferring things from the article that just aren't there in order to plug those holes.

[SoCalPat]

This is a good piece. It's especially worth getting optimistic over if "they" as related by the swim coach are former swimmers with a vendetta. As you all know, I love dealing in absolutes and this assistant coach seems intent on doing just that when it comes to his reputation.

http://concussioninc.net/?p=7105

[UteBeliever aka Port]

I'm hopeful that the right thing is done, sooner rather than later. That's what I'm hopeful for.

My anger or disappointment against what I perceive to be silly arguments or courtroom nitpicking against most of what's been alleged by the swimmers and their parents shouldn't be confused with me rubbing my hands with glee over what's happening.


Do you believe everything said by the swimmers and their parents from their perspective? If so, why?

[Scratch]

They were handed the story and a list of sources from a disgruntled parent yet did not quote anyone outside that list.


I would also add that what they did quote from this source material does not state any actual factual allegations, just meaningless statements such as there being an "abusive and traumatic coaching situation." Statements like that are almost meaningless in an article like this; unless you tell us what those letters specifically say about the facts that created an "abusive and traumatic coaching situation," when those letters were sent, and to whom they were sent then we can't draw any meaningful conclusions (or at least we shouldn't).

[SoCalPat]

Do you believe everything said by the swimmers and their parents from their perspective? If so, why?

There are plenty of abusive coaches out there. What's the flip side to that? Outside of hazing, where's the power for the student-athlete? Going to the media is one of the checks athletes have to balance out the wrongs of a coach.

Do I believe 100 percent everything that's been said? No. There's bound to be some embellishment there. If this unravels for the swimmers, this will prove to be their undoing -- instead of Winslow merely toeing the line, they've insisted wrongly that he crossed it repeatedly. When they talk about Winslow showing up drunk or hung-over, I don't put much stock in that. It's a big deal, but how could they know? It's the actions that put swimmers in harm's way that I'm most concerned about.

[DU Ute]

There are plenty of abusive coaches out there. What's the flip side to that? Outside of hazing, where's the power for the student-athlete? Going to the media is one of the checks athletes have to balance out the wrongs of a coach.

Do I believe 100 percent everything that's been said? No. There's bound to be some embellishment there. If this unravels for the swimmers, this will prove to be their undoing -- instead of Winslow merely toeing the line, they've insisted wrongly that he crossed it repeatedly. When they talk about Winslow showing up drunk or hung-over, I don't put much stock in that. It's a big deal, but how could they know? It's the actions that put swimmers in harm's way that I'm most concerned about.

Won't someone please think of the swimmers!?!?!?

345

[Two Utes]

This is a good piece. It's especially worth getting optimistic over if "they" as related by the swim coach are former swimmers with a vendetta. As you all know, I love dealing in absolutes and this assistant coach seems intent on doing just that when it comes to his reputation.

http://concussioninc.net/?p=7105


This article is biggest piece of garbage I have read as of yet. Bleacher report kicks ass over this drivel.

[LA Ute]

I wont be as nice as Scratch. The Yahoo piece was garbage. They talked only to a handful of disgruntled ex swimmers and their parents. They had nothing from current members of the team. They had nothing from content ex-members of the team. They had nothing from other swim coaches discussing the orthodoxy or unorthodoxy of the methods in question. They had an incomplete and fuzzy timeline of events. They were handed the story and a list of sources from a disgruntled parent yet did not quote anyone outside that list.

Maybe Yahoo was on to something important, but they either didn't do enough homework or they wrote a poor article or both.

Good post. All of this seems pretty persuasive to me.

[wally]

Has anybody sent a link to this thread to either the media or Chris Hill yet? If not, better do it STAT before they make bigger fools of themselves.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Won't someone please think of the swimmers!?!?!?



http://static.thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2008/09/mj2za9vhmclok4zkvriyx0mc_400.jpg

[LA Ute]

Has anybody sent a link to this thread to either the media or Chris Hill yet? If not, better do it STAT before they make bigger fools of themselves.

I thought you were in charge of doing that. Now you realize you forgot and you're trying to blame us?

[codered]

Has anybody sent a link to this thread to either the media or Chris Hill yet? If not, better do it STAT before they make bigger fools of themselves.

What's the point. Chris Hill is obviously going to bury it and hide all these damning 'facts' that has been presented. It's obviously clear that Hill knew about this from the beginning and fired the associate AD to hide it. I guess he kept Winslow to throw us off his scent. But noooo, we are much smarter than that. I mean this is just like Penn State. JUST LIKE. The Yahoo article proves that. JUST LIKE. We should castrate him know while we can before he covers this up even more.

In fact that whole internal investigation thing was just a sham. I hear tell that Chris Hill just took everyone out to Crown Burgers and called it good. He doesn't even know where the aquatics center is. Regardless, you can buy off a lot of men with one of those tasty gyro's, don't think he doesn't know that. Too bad this disgruntled swimmer doesn't like Greek food. It's also too bad the Yahoo guy's didn't even bother coming to town to interview anyone. But he knew Hill would've bribed him. That damn Chris Hill know's exactly what he's doing - except of course when it comes to being an AD. Then apparently he get's really stupid. Honest. Just ask me and I will show you thousands of post that say as much.

On a side note, I heard Chris Hill has a wife that makes his kids eat broccoli. This comes directly from a kid who also had to eat some broccoli. Hill wants to cover this up so he's firing Liz Abel. Yup, that dude is smart like a fox. No one will suspect his wife now. I mean come on. That is unacceptable. It's "vile weed". Someone probably almost died from it one time. Bastard!

OK, seriously though. IF there is a cover up, fine fire him. IF not, STFU! In the mean time, since careers, livelihoods, reputations and families are at stake..... can we just wait until we know what they hell went on before we kill the man? Seems like a proper pre-2005 American thing to do. I mean hell, even Capone got his chance to prove his innocence.

[Big Kahuna]

This is a good piece. It's especially worth getting optimistic over if "they" as related by the swim coach are former swimmers with a vendetta. As you all know, I love dealing in absolutes and this assistant coach seems intent on doing just that when it comes to his reputation.

http://concussioninc.net/?p=7105

I think the site owners are diggin in hard. Pure speculation but I am suspicious as to which male coach they called. Two of our assistant coaches swam at Tennessee. See the link on John Trembley. Trembley was a very good swimmer who went head to head with Spitz, beat Spitz their senior year post Munich in the NCAA championships (funny story linked to Trembley's win). Very sad state of affairs, including Mitch Ivey who I knew from a distance in swimming.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/may/04/ex-ut-swim-coach-john-trembley-wont-be-charged-kpd/?print=1


http://scaq.blogspot.com/2011/04/american-swimming-coaches-association.html

Second link says 46 swimming coaches have been banned.

I'll add that I think the University should be advising all of the athletic department staff on phone and all internet communications during the time of this upcoming investigation.

[wuapinmon]

As a BYU fan, I hope that all of this is blown out of proportion and that no malfeasance occurred. I don't hate the U of U and I feel bad when my friends' alma mater suffers. More importantly, as a human being, I hope that none of it occurred.

[Viking]

Why worry about junkie?

Junkie is the proto-Zoob

[Scratch]

Well this story sure is blowing up and dominating national headlines and the collective consciousness of American sports fans.

[UtahDan]

Well this story sure is blowing up and dominating national headlines and the collective consciousness of American sports fans.

All Real Americans live in Utah County.

[DU Ute]

All Real Americans live in Utah County.

363

[UtahDan]

So when can we expect the shit to finally hit the fan here? Is this the calm before the storm? Has Hill be sending his resume around?

[LA Ute]

So when can we expect the shit to finally hit the fan here? Is this the calm before the storm? Has Hill be sending his resume around?

He was supposed to be gone by the Wednesday after the weekend the Yahoo Sports story broke. :snack:

[UBlender]

There have been a couple more nuggets posted to that concussioninc blog but nobody seems to care (so much for Penn State 2.0). The swimmer who was kicked off the team was put back on scholarship but the angry dad (of another swimmer) is still angry because he appears to either want a big apology cake and ceremony or a financial settlement for some reason (perhaps both).

Then you had that same blog publishing a letter written by Jim Boylen's niece, who was a swimmer at Utah for two years, to Chris Hill basically saying he is evil for allowing the swim coach to be so abusive. She went on about how awful it was, how the coach broke her spirit and how much better off she was after transferring to finish her career at Purdue. She also refused to elaborate on details. The fact that she wouldn't elaborate and is related closely to somebody who definitely hates Chris Hill makes her not the most reliable witness for the prosecution.

I'm not trying to minimize the story or suggest no wrong doing on the part of the AD, but there is still the problem that these articles and blog posts cite people who claim Chris Hill knew and hit at evidence of such, but fail to specifically detail what exactly Chris Hill knew and when he knew it. The investigation is ongoing and maybe that will turn up something new, but for now this story feels like it is going nowhere and slowly fading from public consciousness.

[SoCalPat]

So when can we expect the shit to finally hit the fan here? Is this the calm before the storm? Has Hill be sending his resume around?

As long as Olisczazak isn't contacted, or won't or refuses to talk, this investigation goes nowhere. Is there anyone out there who can verify first-hand the complaints against Winslow as well as also saying Hill knew of the complaints but didn't respond in a timely manner?

[LA Ute]

As long as Olisczazak isn't contacted, or won't or refuses to talk, this investigation goes nowhere. Is there anyone out there who can verify first-hand the complaints against Winslow as well as also saying Hill knew of the complaints but didn't respond in a timely manner?

The final report of the investigation promises to be fascinating. They'll have to report what happened or didn't happen with Olisczazak (sp?). If they contacted him and he wouldn't talk to them, they have to report that. If they didn't contact him they need to explain why.

[Devildog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM429wpMdvM

[Scorcho]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/report-arsalan-kazemi-alleged-racial-discrimination-rice-ad-170110846--ncaab.html

Yahoo sports with more drive by attacks against an Athletic Director.

[LA Ute]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/report-arsalan-kazemi-alleged-racial-discrimination-rice-ad-170110846--ncaab.html

Yahoo sports with more drive by attacks against an Athletic Director.

First, I wish we had Kazemi at Utah.

Second, this sentence from the report makes me wonder if they have editors at Yahoo Sports:


Kazemi told the NCAA that when talking with a teammate in Arabic, Greenspan asked if they were having an "Al-Qaeda meeting."

Then again, maybe Greenspan speaks Arabic.

[UteBeliever aka Port]

First, I wish we had Kazemi at Utah.

Second, this sentence from the report makes me wonder if they have editors at Yahoo Sports:



Then again, maybe Greenspan speaks Arabic.

Or even Farsi...

[LA Ute]

Or even Farsi...

Yeah. It looks like Kazemi speaks Arabic too. Assuming the Yahoo writer even picked up on that possible discrepancy.

[Scorcho]

this will be sad news for a few of you, but I'm confident that Rutgers has leap-frogged Utah into the Penn State 2.0 power ranking?

[Diehard Ute]

Winslow is not being charged in Arizona

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9378483/greg-winslow-accused-sexual-abuse-face-charges

Interesting to note this story has been up at ESPN for 6 hours but has gone unreported in the local media as far as I can tell

[LA Ute]

Just a reminder of what the only eyewitness so far, with no apparent axe to grind, has said publicly about Winslow's methods:

http://kfanav.s3.amazonaws.com/20130312_DJPK-031213-Todd-Bradley-Utah-Swimmer-net.MP3

Like I said below, if this guy's description of his experience as a Utah swimmer under Winslow is accurate, we may be looking at a big nothing-burger here.

[UTEopia]

It does seem a little strange to me that the University's investigation is not yet complete. However, in light of the fact that there is apparently a race and gender bias claim proceeding through the federal administration process, it is possible that they are waiting for that process to run its course before proceeding.

[SoCalPat]

Just a reminder of what the only eyewitness so far, with no apparent axe to grind, has said publicly about Winslow's methods:

http://kfanav.s3.amazonaws.com/20130312_DJPK-031213-Todd-Bradley-Utah-Swimmer-net.MP3

Like I said below, if this guy's description of his experience as a Utah swimmer under Winslow is accurate, we may be looking at a big nothing-burger here.

Like that means anything. Some of Mike Rice's biggest defenders were his own players.

[LA Ute]

Like that means anything. Some of Mike Rice's biggest defenders were his own players.

If, as I said, his version of events turns out to be accurate, it means a lot.

[SoCalPat]

If, as I said, his version of events turns out to be accurate, it means a lot.

That's your hope, but the investigation isn't into whether Winslow's methods were appropriate. We know they weren't. The investigation is centered around whether or not the U. did what it should have when multiple complaints were brought forth, and whether its soft pedaling of the issue enabled Winslow to be an even bigger terror within his program. What one swimmer has to say means very little.

[LA Ute]

That's your hope, but the investigation isn't into whether Winslow's methods were appropriate. We know they weren't. The investigation is centered around whether or not the U. did what it should have when multiple complaints were brought forth, and whether its soft pedaling of the issue enabled Winslow to be an even bigger terror within his program. What one swimmer has to say means very little.

You're avoiding my point. No matter. The investigation will tell us which tip of which iceberg actually leads to something, or nothing.

By the way, speaking of hope, weren't you the guy who said Hill would be gone within a few days after this broke?

(I am tweaking you.)

[codered]

:)

IIRC, this was going to be a huge scandal, on par with Penn State and this was surely Chris Hill's demise. Yet after an internal investigation, nothing of note was found. The current investigation was requested by Hill from an outside source IIRC. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Fact is, some people just have different hobbies than you and I do LA

607


You're avoiding my point. No matter. The investigation will tell us which tip of which iceberg actually leads to something, or nothing.

By the way, speaking of hope, were't you the guy who said Hill would be gone within a few days after this broke?

[UtahsMrSports]

Two observations:

1) Is it just me or is the "fire chris hill! we are ruined!" crowd and the "fire larry! hes the worst coach ever!" crowd nearly the same vocal cast of characters?

2) Those of us who decided to wait for the facts to come out are looking pretty wise right about now.

[SeattleUte]

Two observations:

1) Is it just me or is the "fire chris hill! we are ruined!" crowd and the "fire larry! hes the worst coach ever!" crowd nearly the same vocal cast of characters?

Yes. They also were disproportionately Boylen apologists and Majerus haters. Hoyo and Pat are the archetypes.

[SoCalPat]

You're avoiding my point. No matter. The investigation will tell us which tip of which iceberg actually leads to something, or nothing.

By the way, speaking of hope, weren't you the guy who said Hill would be gone within a few days after this broke?

(I am tweaking you.)

The only thing the investigation will do is show how good (or how bad) the U., the athletic department and our lawyers are at whitewashing all of this.

Only the apologists among us insist we didn't screw this up badly. It wasn't until enough of them came out that you felt emboldened to change your tune.

[LA Ute]

The only thing the investigation will do is show how good (or how bad) the U., the athletic department and our lawyers are at whitewashing all of this.

Only the apologists among us insist we didn't screw this up badly. It wasn't until enough of them came out that you felt emboldened to change your tune.

Oh, Happy Father's Day, SCP!

[LA Ute]

Media Advisory

Contact:

--Keith Sterling, communications director, cell: 801-258-1522, keith.sterling@utah.edu

Press Conference – Results of U Swimming and Diving Investigation

What:

Results of independent investigation of University of Utah’s swimming and diving program will be presented.

Who:

Alan Sullivan, Investigator (Partner, Snell & Wilmer)

Michael Glazier, Investigator (Partner, Bond, Schoeneck & King)

John Nielsen, Investigator (Attorney - Retired)

Clark Ivory, Chair, University of Utah Board of Trustees

David Pershing, President, University of Utah

Chris Hill, Director of Athletics, University of Utah

When: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 – 10 a.m.

Where: Snell & Wilmer Law Offices

15 West South Temple, Suite 1200 (12th floor)

Enter the underground lot traveling east on South Temple at the parking entrance located right before Utah Woolen Mills. Proceed into the garage, turn left and take the next left to Level P1 where there are signs for Gateway Tower West. Take the stairs to the doorway and follow the hallway to the elevators.

Please bring City Creek parking ticket with you for validation.

Note:

Copies of the investigators’ report and the Office of Equal Opportunity (OEO) report completed by the university will be provided. A mult box will not be available.

[SoCalPat]

I would expect that we'll throw Winslow (easy target) under the bus and express some kind of remorse that we didn't listen more to what Keith Henschen said in his 2009 letter to the compliance department -- that there was a disconnect that would've resulted in a much different outcome had it been handled properly. We'll stress the overwhelming positive experiences that athletes at the U. experience and regret that not everyone shares those same experiences, but without mentioning the swimmers as a group. We'll also claim to be implementing procedures that prevent something like this from ever happening again.

I'm past placing blame on individuals or fighting with the apologists -- that kind of fan is on every campus in America. That said, this investigation cannot be taken seriously if it doesn't account for Pete Olisczcak's role in all of this and he wasn't contacted (I suppose he's also within his rights not to say anything, and that raises all kinds of mixed messages if he was, yet didn't). I've said it all along -- the entire truth cannot be known without the first-hand account of what amounted to the most direct contact between Winslow and the athletic department.

[LA Ute]

Pat, what kind of investigation would satisfy you? It seems to me you've already drawn some strong conclusions from the early press reports alone.

[SoCalPat]

Pat, what kind of investigation would satisfy you? It seems to me you've already drawn some strong conclusions from the early press reports alone.

Look, we screwed up. Own it. I don't care if we only throw only Oli and Winslow under the bus; just own it. It's a trait rarely found in collegiate sports these days, and is the very least I am demanding.

No one needs to be fired, no one needs to resign. Just own it, vow to do better and move on.

[SoCalPat]

We are owning it, above and beyond what I expected. "Proud to be a Ute" is cliche, but it means something to me today.

[LA Ute]

We are owning it, above and beyond what I expected. "Proud to be a Ute" is cliche, but it means something to me today.

Is it online somewhere?

By the way, I know Chris Hill and he is a man of honor and integrity. It would be appropriate for you to acknowledge that you were wrong to assume the contrary about him, which is what you seemed to do in this thread.

[concerned]

Is it online somewhere?

trib article online. Even though we are owning it, I dont suppose it is a coincidence that we are releasing it July 2, in the middle of the holiday doldrums..

[LA Ute]

What the Trib has reported so far:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56542931-78/winslow-alcohol-coach-abuse.html.csp


And while the complaints of abuse from students were appropriately handled, Athletic Director Chris Hill did not adequately follow up on reports of Winslow’s alcohol problems, the investigators said.

Looks like Winslow is at least a problem drinker. That wasn't something people were talking about the way they were talking about how the abuse reports were handled, but it would explain an awful lot. It also looks like the athletics department didn't deal with it. I see that failure a lot, and it never ends well. It didn't this time.

[concerned]

We are owning it, above and beyond what I expected. "Proud to be a Ute" is cliche, but it means something to me today.

That is a far cry from your first post on this, when you said Chris Hill was done at Utah and should tender his resignation.

[SoCalPat]

Is it online somewhere?

By the way, I know Chris Hill and he is a man of honor and integrity. It would be appropriate for you to acknowledge that you were wrong to assume the contrary about him, which is what you seemed to do in this thread.

Get off your high horse. You think I was excluding Hill when I talked about my satisfaction in seeing us own it? He owned it just as much as anyone ... and then some.

[SoCalPat]

That is a far cry from your first post on this, when you said Chris Hill was done at Utah and should tender his resignation.

I'm not going to justify being rash with my intial reaction. The public rebuke Hill got today from David Pershing showed that some people of influence were more than a little pissed off at how this went down.

[concerned]

I'm not going to justify being rash with my intial reaction. The public rebuke Hill got today from David Pershing showed that some people of influence were more than a little pissed off at how this went down.

Agreed.

[LA Ute]

Aaron Falk's Twitter feed has some interesting tweets about the news conference (look at today's tweets).

https://twitter.com/aaronfalk

[LA Ute]

Get off your high horse. You think I was excluding Hill when I talked about my satisfaction in seeing us own it? He owned it just as much as anyone ... and then some.

You have expressed satisfaction that the mea culpa apparently met your standards. In light of your consistent and repeated predictions of a cover-up or whitewash, I think a few bites of crow are also in order.

This short report adds insight:

https://twitter.com/aaronfalk/status/352112793111109633

Further evidence of "owning it." I hope Hills is sufficiently abject for you.

[LA Ute]

Here's the U's press release: (http://unews.utah.edu/news_releases/university-of-utah-strengthens-oversight-of-student-athlete-complaints/)


University of Utah Strengthens Oversight of Student Athlete Complaints

New reporting structure designed to improve student experience

July 2, 2013 – University of Utah President David Pershing today announced new measures to ensure student athletes have multiple outlets to report inappropriate behavior. Pershing acted after an independent investigation revealed deficiencies in the current system.


In March, the University of Utah’s Board of Trustees hired three highly regarded attorneys as independent investigators to explore allegations of misconduct by former coach Greg Winslow within the university’s swimming and diving program. The final report – compiled by investigators Alan Sullivan, John Nielsen and Michael Glazier – was made public today after a three-month, comprehensive investigation, for which more than 50 witnesses were interviewed.


“After thoroughly reviewing this report, it is clear to me the athletics department failed to properly support its students,” Pershing said. “While the administration did place Winslow on a performance improvement plan after several complaints about his coaching techniques, a communications breakdown allowed Winslow’s personal problems to disrupt the program and create an unnecessary, uncomfortable and inappropriate environment for our student athletes. This is unacceptable.”


Pershing is committed to working with Director of Athletics Chris Hill and the athletics department to implement appropriate change. Pershing added he is confident Hill and his team are fully dedicated to taking whatever steps are necessary to correct their mistakes.


“During my 26 years as the director of athletics at the University of Utah, our top priority as a department has always been to provide the best student-athlete support in the nation,” said Hill. “As this comprehensive and independent report indicates, we could have done better. I could have done better. I am ultimately responsible for all of our 400 student athletes and pledge to do a better job in the monitoring of our staff and programs.”


Hill has already implemented changes within his department and will now incorporate recommendations from the investigators. The enhancements include:




An ombudsman to athletics has been appointed through the student affairs office and will serve as a confidential conduit for student athletes. The position, held by Ryan Randall, will report directly to the dean of students, independent of the athletics department.




Pershing has appointed Karen Paisley as faculty athletic representative/special assistant to the president with specific direction to monitor student welfare.




Members of the Student Athlete Wellness Team will report instances of abusive coaching practices directly to the director of athletics.




Adopt written standards for safe and effective coaching methods and ensure these standards are strictly enforced.




The University of Utah will work to better ensure all employees and students are provided with information on substance abuse and how to report it. Associate Vice President Amy Wildermuth will work to verify that the proper disciplinary process is followed if substance abuse occurs, with consequences ranging from a performance improvement plan to a required leave of absence for treatment to termination.


President Pershing has directed the athletics department to have all improvements in place by Aug. 15. He will meet every three weeks with Hill to monitor progress.

I'm sure the entire report will be online soon and we can then argue over what it means.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Don't argue for too long. This story is dead.

/endthread

[LA Ute]

Don't argue for too long. This story is dead.

TIC. You're right.

[Big Kahuna]

I would like to read the report. I am especially interested in the review of training techniques. I know many have asked me and I stand by prior posts that there is a fine line between revolutionary and questionable techinques. It sounds like at worst Winslow had some questionable drills. Not condoning the rest of the saga, in fact far from it. Hopefully the new coach can get the program on the mend? Our men's team had one heck of a year in light of all the noise they faced at the PAC championships.

I will also add that digesting the concussion web site, US Swimming has a lot of improvement to do in protecting our young, upcoming swimmers. I am beyond disappointed in the history of what has occurred.

[SoCalPat]

You have expressed satisfaction that the mea culpa apparently met your standards. In light of your consistent and repeated predictions of a cover-up or whitewash, I think a few bites of crow are also in order.

This short report adds insight:

https://twitter.com/aaronfalk/status/352112793111109633

Further evidence of "owning it." I hope Hills is sufficiently abject for you.

Kiss my ass, LA. All of the apologists who insisted or strongly suggested there was nothing to see can do so likewise. Your ilk was consistently insisting that the swimmers' complaints had no validity to them and that the athletic department was above board in handling it all. Pershing's public rebuke of Hill (which most reasonable people would agree falls one step short of being fired -- an appropriate punishment for someone who allowed/ignored/enabled a psychotic drunk to lead one of their athletic programs), as well as the latter's public reaction to that scolding, backs my overriding concern, one I have consistently expressed: We screwed up.

Hill's reaction is either the greatest acting job ever, or even he was able to recognize the gravity of what happened, and I am nowhere near cynical enough to believe it's the former. His slate is clean with me.

I've been forthright and commending in how we handled today. You've hardly been likewise toward the aggrieved, and not once suggested you were dead balls-on wrong as to the seriousness of this affair, demanding apologies from those who have nothing to apologize for. Eat crow? How about you eat something else?

[LA Ute]

Kiss my ass, LA. All of the apologists who insisted or strongly suggested there was nothing to see can do so likewise. Your ilk was consistently insisting that the swimmers' complaints had no validity to them and that the athletic department was above board in handling it all. Pershing's public rebuke of Hill (which most reasonable people would agree falls one step short of being fired -- an appropriate punishment for someone who allowed/ignored/enabled a psychotic drunk to lead one of their athletic programs), as well as the latter's public reaction to that scolding, backs my overriding concern, one I have consistently expressed: We screwed up.

Hill's reaction is either the greatest acting job ever, or even he was able to recognize the gravity of what happened, and I am nowhere near cynical enough to believe it's the latter. His slate is clean with me.

I've been forthright and commending in how we handled today. You've hardly been likewise toward the aggrieved, and not once suggested you were dead balls-on wrong as to the seriousness of this affair, demanding apologies from those who have nothing to apologize for. Eat crow? How about you eat something else?

Calm down. I've said all along that we needed to wait until the investigation was concluded and the report was out before making judgments. You've never said that and have attacked those who said so. You pooh-poohed the report and predicted a whitewash. Now you're climbing all over me?

The report speaks for itself, whatever gloss you want to put on it. It is clear Hill screwed up. Even you acknowledged that his response has shown he gets that. This matter is over.

P.S.: No discipline at all, which is what Pershing said Hill was getting, is a far cry from "one step short of being fired." So I think your "most reasonable people" card doesn't play well here.

I'm eating brisket, by the way. :D

[SoCalPat]

Calm down. I've said all along that we needed to wait until the investigation was concluded and the report was out before making judgments. You've never said that and have attacked those who said so. You pooh-poohed the report and predicted a whitewash. Now you're climbing all over me?

The report speaks for itself, whatever gloss you want to put on it. It is clear Hill screwed up. Even you acknowledged that his response has shown he gets that. This matter is over.

P.S.: No discipline at all, which is what Pershing said Hill was getting, is a far cry from "one step short of being fired." So I think your "most reasonable people" card doesn't play well here.

I'm eating brisket, by the way. :D

I think you need to go back to earlier today and see who climbed all over who first.

What Pershing says publicly could be a far cry from what could be said/done privately. But that's as far as I'll speculate on what today's rebuke means.

Brisket tastes a lot better than what I had in mind. Enjoy your lunch.

[LA Ute]

I think you need to go back to earlier today and see who climbed all over who first.

What Pershing says publicly could be a far cry from what could be said/done privately. But that's as far as I'll speculate on what today's rebuke means.

Brisket tastes a lot better than what I had in mind. Enjoy your lunch.

It's just a family argument. Peace!

[San Diego Ute Fan]

It's just a family argument. Peace!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

[Diehard Ute]

http://img.ksl.com/slc/2509/250910/25091097.pdf

Here's the report.

[LA Ute]

http://img.ksl.com/slc/2509/250910/25091097.pdf

Here's the report.

I just finished reading the whole thing. I was interested in the alcohol abuse and the failure to address it aggressively. I run into that in my work advising clients, and the problem of not wanting to talk about the "elephant in the room" is something some organizations are better at than others. If the report is accurate, the U. athletics dept. was pretty deficient in this area. My guess is that will change now. It also appears that Olescziak (sp?) was a huge part of that problem. The investigators found so many independent sources for that guy's shortcomings that it doesn't look he is being scapegoated.

Still, when you are the guy where the buck stops, and you hear of substance a use and possible addiction by someone in a position of trust in your organization, you have to be all over that and not leave it to someone else to be sure the problem is addressed effectively. The report shows that Chris Hill didn't do that in this case. Thank heavens no one was seriously hurt or killed as a result. I suppose that is the #1 lesson he and the athletic department learned.

[concerned]

I wonder how Majerus would have coped with the steps that are being instituted today to protect atheletes from abuse?

[LA Ute]

I wonder how Majerus would have coped with the steps that are being instituted today to protect athaletes from abuse?

He would have found them oh-fensive.

[Scorcho]

Whole lotta meh ... Hardly the Penn State 2.0 that some were clamoring.

[codered]

I seem to remember some swearing to renounce their Ute Fan status if "Hill wasn't fired" over this "scandal." I for one wouldn't miss them. :)



Whole lotta meh ... Hardly the Penn State 2.0 that some were clamoring.