The Plan of Salvation, this Earth Life, and the Human Experience

[DrumNFeather]

As I have read through some of the threads recently, particularly the GC thread and some others, I'm reminded of the quote from Elder Holland that is getting so much run about God only having imperfect people to deal with and how that must be frustrating for him. But it has also made me think about the Mormon view of the Plan of Salvation and the Pre-existence...the notion that we are all here to be tested etc...and I have to wonder and ask...in this context, or really any other, is this a success or a failure on the part of God?

With so much anger, frustration, and down right vitriol that I read in various forums and blogs (and it isn't just here), I just wonder if this human experience that we're all having is actually a big failure...and perhaps it was destined to fail all along...it sure feels that way sometimes.

Every time I read the classic internet tough guy macho bullshit god is an asshole stuff, I often wonder what he must think of this entire experience and, if there is anything on the other side, if we'll all ever think it was worth it.

Right now, hard to imagine. Then again, as the Priest in Rudy says...I only know two truths, there is a god and I'm not him.

Taking the long view of this...the mormon long view (sorry to do that), we really had no idea what we were getting into.

[UtahDan]

I think if people are unhappy that life is a failure for them. But I don't observe many people who are unhappy in the long arc for reasons having anything to do with their religion or lack of religion. I think there are many people who have lost their equilibrium who experience pain or loss as they settle into a new one. People around them experience it too. I think what you are observing not unique to the people we know or the faith we were raised in. There is a larger trend of religion and secularism duking it out (this was talk about at conference) where tried and true ideas and practices are running up against new fangled ones.

I believe that it is important to do our best to be happy now, whatever the looks like for each of us individually. Getting there can be messy. But what else is there for human beings to do?

[Ma'ake]

I take the broad view on religion, I think they all are pulling in the same
general direction, sometimes with totally different ideologies.

The eastern religions emphasize that life is very hard, it is inherently an
experience of suffering, and our goal is to learn to love each other, while
growing to find peace within ourselves and overcome the limitations of our
existence.

A couple of weeks ago I visited an archeological site west of the Great Salt Lake that few people ever get to, because it's so incredibly remote, called Hogup Cave. An Archeologist from the University of Oregon surveyed the site over two summers in the late 60s, and determined the cave was used as a seasonal hunting shelter, beginning about 8800 years ago, with about 10 distinct eras, with the last being 1850, or 3 years after the Mormons came to Utah.

What were those peoples' lives like? It had to be on fringe of economic existence, a short life expectancy. They hunted antelope, deer & Bison and ate a lot of pickleweed seeds. There was pottery, a few tools, mocassins, arrowheads, but otherwise we're talking minimal artifacts. What did they believe? What was the purpose of their lives, being so far ahead of the Old Testament era, ahead of written language anywhere on the Earth?

In other news, Discovery.com announced the finding of a specimen in Africa that was
essentially half human, half ape, perhaps a different line of primate. How do those beings factor in to the Plan of Salvation, a lot like the early Neanderthal-Human hybrids we're beginning to find in Europe?
My hunch is the Plan of Salvation is inspired ideology, but there's a lot it doesn't and
can't encompass or explain, but it serves a useful purpose. It's vaguely like
the Hindu view of progression through re-incarnation, except there's only one
life and the animals have no souls. (Like I said, religious ideology varies
quite a bit. lol.)

[LA Ute]

I posted in the General Conference thread that to me, at least at this point in my life, peace is what the Plan of Salvation (or the "Great Plan of Happiness") gives me. The idea that we can all walk around cheerfully, whistling a happy tune all the time, is silly. But the idea of peace is compelling to me -- the kind of peace Jesus referred to when he said "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you." Along those lines, I happened to come across this from Jeffrey Holland that pretty much encapsulates how I make sense of the world:


When these difficult days (and nights!) come—and they will—it will help us to remember that “it must needs be,” that in the grand councils of heaven before the world was, we agreed to such a time of challenge and refinement. We were taught then that facing, resolving, and enduring troublesome times was the price we would pay for progress. And we were committed to progress eternally. In a great patriarchal pronouncement given nearly three millennia ago, the prophet Lehi taught that it was fundamental to God’s eternal plan that our quest for exaltation—the triumph of righteousness over wickedness, of happiness over misery, of good over evil—requires “opposition in all things.” Thus, even though on some days we might wish it otherwise, it is essential that our temporal journey be laced with all kinds of choices and alternatives, opportunity and obstacles, exhilarating highs and sometimes devastating lows. Through addressing—and occasionally simply enduring—these myriad experiences we are to learn and improve, grow and repent, have faith, keep trying, and make our way toward our eternal home.

Of course, the greatest reassurance in this plan is that there was from the beginning a fail-safe protection built into the arrangement, an unassailable guarantee (if we want it) against every mistake we might make, every sin we would commit, every trial we would confront, every discouragement, disease, and the death we will all ultimately face. This salvation would come in the form of a Messiah, the Messiah—the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. He would come “with healing in his wings,” both temporally and spiritually. His message would be one of hope and peace. His atoning sacrifice would overcome death and hell for every man, woman, and child from Adam to the end of the world. He would break the bands of our bondage and our troubles, and He would set us free.

--Jeffrey R. Holland, “For Times of Trouble: Spiritual Solace from the Psalms"(New from Des Book.)

[Idon'tgnawonmywife]

I guess I feel sort of lucky in a way. That is, despite having been born with cerebral palsy, I seem to find myself at peace with my existence as a human being. Granted, my situation almost inherently calls for an optimistic outlook (at least for me), but I take plenty of solace from my own personal human experience that in spite of tragic circumstances, that there can still be a purpose.

Hell, even my fear of death was taken away at an early age--not so much by my faith but again, the cerebral palsy. Simply put, I'd rather not know what old age would be like in this body; I see death for myself as a release from what (at times) has felt like a lifetime in 27 years.

However, being both very much alive and thankful for it, I can't think of a better way to honor the Plan of Salvation (or even just the gift of life itself, really) than to sojourn on from day-to-day while enduring well and to the end.

[Switzerland]

As I have read through some of the threads recently, particularly the GC thread and some others, I'm reminded of the quote from Elder Holland that is getting so much run about God only having imperfect people to deal with and how that must be frustrating for him. But it has also made me think about the Mormon view of the Plan of Salvation and the Pre-existence...the notion that we are all here to be tested etc...and I have to wonder and ask...in this context, or really any other, is this a success or a failure on the part of God?

With so much anger, frustration, and down right vitriol that I read in various forums and blogs (and it isn't just here), I just wonder if this human experience that we're all having is actually a big failure...and perhaps it was destined to fail all along...it sure feels that way sometimes.

Every time I read the classic internet tough guy macho bullshit god is an asshole stuff, I often wonder what he must think of this entire experience and, if there is anything on the other side, if we'll all ever think it was worth it.

Right now, hard to imagine. Then again, as the Priest in Rudy says...I only know two truths, there is a god and I'm not him.

Taking the long view of this...the mormon long view (sorry to do that), we really had no idea what we were getting into.

Look at it this way. With God's omniscience, he knew before the plan of salvation who would qualify for which degree of glory. But instead of simply divvying out our inheritances and spending eternity being questioned why so-and-so wasn't found worthy, we are given this opportunity to "prove ourselves herewith"...to ourselves.

This mortal life, with all of its obstacles, is only Act One. Life in the Spirit World / Millennium will be radically different; as will the "little season" where the pride of man will again loose Satan. God already knows who will hold strong and who will waver in what circumstance and where, and which eternal role they will find the most happiness in. In God's mercy, man will not spend the eternities wondering, "why not me?" Instead, man will have thorough knowledge of his destiny, and God's justice and wisdom.