Scheduling BYU news today...

[Crimsonute]

From Twitter


Thomas Karren ‏@UteScoutInsider 11m
I'm hearing an announcement from the U could come soon regarding BYU and future scheduling

Thomas Karren ‏@UteScoutInsider 7m
My super secret source won't say if an agreement has been reached or not, just that we should hear something from Utah about it today.

Thomas Karren ‏@UteScoutInsider 54s
I was also told the announcement will be made via the school's YouTube channel similar to recently-released Chris Hill video (https://twitter.com/UteScoutInsider)

[kccougar]

Two game series in 2017 (September) and 2018 (last game of the year).

[Applejack]

Two game series in 2017 (September) and 2018 (last game of the year).

Yes!!!! I love the last game of the year scheduling for 2018. Is that game in Provo? I might have to get tickets for that one.

[kccougar]

If they continue to alternate venues (2013, 2016, 2017, 2018) the game would be in SLC.

[sancho]

Yes!!!! I love the last game of the year scheduling for 2018. Is that game in Provo? I might have to get tickets for that one.

I am hoping that the CU thing can eventually turn into a fun, healthy rivalry. That won't happen if we go back to BYU for the last game of the year.

I also dislike helping BYU with their Nov scheduling problem.

I will admit that the game will feel more in place.

[kccougar]

You realize this is just as much about helping the Pac12 with their scheduling as it is with helping BYU, right?

[sancho]

You realize this is just as much about helping the Pac12 with their scheduling as it is with helping BYU, right?

I'm not all that interested in the Pac-12's scheduling issues. I'm sure there are other ways.

I also have a selfish reason for wanting the CU game to end the season. I live in Colorado, and a Thanksgiving game is perfect for having family visit for the holiday.

[UtahsMrSports]

You realize this is just as much about helping the Pac12 with their scheduling as it is with helping BYU, right?

"helping", "taking advantage of a loophole" whatever works best from a persons perspective.

[Applejack]

I am hoping that the CU thing can eventually turn into a fun, healthy rivalry. That won't happen if we go back to BYU for the last game of the year.

I also dislike helping BYU with their Nov scheduling problem.

I will admit that the game will feel more in place.

I hear this a lot, but I don't understand it. Why would we want to get rid of BYU as our rival? They are the best rival anyone could ever dream of having. They have it all: close proximity to us, lots of entangled fan/coach/player relationships with us, holier-than-thou attitude, embarrassing religious entanglements, and the CougarEat. They are like the Yankees, Notre Dame, and that jerk from every 80s movie rolled up into one.

[Absolution]

Just a regular guy's opinion...

Our focus should be foremost on the PAC 12. Bending over backwards to schedule BYU helps them through the challenges of being independent. Rather than separating ourselves over time from them we are helping them remain relevant in the State of Utah.

Shouldn't we be beating our competition in every way instead of helping them? I fail to see how scheduling BYU helps Utah's long term interests in our new conference. We have a long way to go to catch up in the PAC 12 and it will not be an easy task. We can do both but I'd rather have a singular focus for our athletic department. I would bet the super majority of BYU fans are happy and probably relieved that this was scheduled.

I was really looking forward to more non-conference games with BCS opponents. Now in 16, 17, and 18 we will not be playing anyone of interest in our non-conference schedule (sorry but I don't find playing BYU interesting in any way).

Remember how great it was when we scheduled Michigan? That's how I want every year non conference schedule to be: a good/interesting BCS opponent with a home and home setup. Instead we will get BYU, non-BCS and Div2 team for those three years.

What kind of message are we sending the PAC 12? We love you PAC 12 but pretty please let us keep all the money, exposure and prestige and still play BYU? That's a sad message in my opinion. Isn't the PAC 12 our path to bigger and better things yet we still want to re-date the less attractive girl from a few years ago? It's so nice that we are helping the conference out by scheduling a non-conference game in November at home in 2018... big, yawn, deal. What a sad little excuse.

I do think Hill was under considerable pressure to schedule the series (Blue Hairs, Local Media, his legacy). He didn't want to be the guy that ended the rivalry. I can understand where he is coming from even if I completely disagree with the decision.

Flame away...

[DanielLaRusso]

I hear this a lot, but I don't understand it. Why would we want to get rid of BYU as our rival? They are the best rival anyone could ever dream of having. They have it all: close proximity to us, lots of entangled fan/coach/player relationships with us, holier-than-thou attitude, embarrassing religious entanglements, and the CougarEat. They are like the Yankees, Notre Dame, and that jerk from every 80s movie rolled up into one.

They'll talk about how this is a no win situation for our team or how it helps BYU, but these mask the REAL reason. It seems a lot of fans are obsessed with the idea of big-timing BYU. It is their reddest dream; perhaps caused by the psychological trauma of cheering for the little brother for so much of modern history. Regardless, the idea of not even having to beat BYU on the field, but to simply lift up our collective nose gives some fans the biggest hard-on.

[U-Ute]

I hear this a lot, but I don't understand it. Why would we want to get rid of BYU as our rival? They are the best rival anyone could ever dream of having. They have it all: close proximity to us, lots of entangled fan/coach/player relationships with us, holier-than-thou attitude, embarrassing religious entanglements, and the CougarEat. They are like the Yankees, Notre Dame, and that jerk from every 80s movie rolled up into one.

Sweep the leg!

[SoCalPat]

Just a regular guy's opinion...

Our focus should be foremost on the PAC 12. Bending over backwards to schedule BYU helps them through the challenges of being independent. Rather than separating ourselves over time from them we are helping them remain relevant in the State of Utah.

Do you realize how foolish this sentiment is when you see other Pac-12 schools scheduling BYU? Arizona and USC are on the docket (albeit some years off) and I'm sure there will be more.

You want to keep BYU relevant in the state of Utah? Start stringing together 5-7 seasons.

[SoCalPat]

This is fabulous news for those of us who don't obsess over BYU save for one week out of the year and can keep the rivalry in perspective.

[DanielLaRusso]

Sweep the leg!

Excuse me, but that is patently offensive to some members.

[sancho]

They'll talk about how this is a no win situation for our team or how it helps BYU, but these mask the REAL reason. It seems a lot of fans are obsessed with the idea of big-timing BYU. It is their reddest dream; perhaps caused by the psychological trauma of cheering for the little brother for so much of modern history. Regardless, the idea of not even having to beat BYU on the field, but to simply lift up our collective nose gives some fans the biggest hard-on.

Sure, but there is clearly more to it. BYU is complicated now. We only get 3 OOC games per year. How do we want to spend them? We can only have one Thanksgiving game - which team makes more sense long term, CU or BYU? What is best for Utah (and for haters like me, the corollary question: what is worst for BYU)? We need to consider SOS, tradition, and recruiting to answer those questions. If BYU is not on the schedule, who will be, and why?

I have really enjoyed being part of the Utah/BYU rivalry. Rivalries like ours bring the highest highs and lowest lows known to sports. The ideal is to beat BYU regularly and badly until they cry uncle and call the whole thing off. Abandoning the series proves nothing; only by winning can we prove anything. But still, I'm not certain that having BYU on the schedule is in the best interest of the team. And if having them is in our best interests, I'm not sure what time of the season is in our best interest. It's definitely all more complicated now.

[U-Ute]

http://fogcitybasketball.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/CobraKaiNoMercyFrontpatch.jpg

[SoCalPat]

Just saw this at fbschedules.com, but apparently we're opening the 2017 season with North Dakota, a FCS team, and we have Southern Utah to open the 2016 season. Was this ever announced?

[Jarid in Cedar]

Just saw this at fbschedules.com, but apparently we're opening the 2017 season with North Dakota, a FCS team, and we have Southern Utah to open the 2016 season. Was this ever announced?

Somewhere in the past, I remember seeing both announced. The SUU game has been in the docket for about 6-9 months.

[Ma'ake]

We all knew that once the PAC & Big-10 called off their yearly regular season game that we'd be extending the BYU series beyond 2016.

By the time the 2018 game gets here, Utah will either be a solid PAC power with significantly improved talent and the late game against BYU will be an easier win than it has been, or we'll be stuck as a middle or lower PAC team, and playing BYU late in the year will be something to look forward to.

If we're in the PAC championship game, we should have the talent to beat BYU without an insanely intense effort.

What would really suck is if we schedule BYU *before* we play Colorado, and then lay an egg against the Buffaloes because of the hangover effect of the BYU game. That would bite. I hope we don't make that mistake.

[Pudge's Pole]

This BYU fan is happy to see the rivalry extended. I find Absolution's reasoning and anger humorous (and pathetic). Eventually, I think we'll see the series settle into an every-other-year, late-season affair. I'm cool with that.

[SoCalPat]

What would really suck is if we schedule BYU *before* we play Colorado, and then lay an egg against the Buffaloes because of the hangover effect of the BYU game. That would bite. I hope we don't make that mistake.

An overthought and meaningless concern. We laid one turdburger of an egg against CU in 2011 and didn't have playing BYU the week before to blame for that.

Bottom line, if Kyle can't adjust and find ways to have his team bypass this perceived "hangover effect" from beating BYU, he needs to find another line of work. There are no weeks off in the Pac-12, and if we're willing to use this is an excuse for subpar efforts or to dodge scheduling certain teams, we need to find a coach who avoids it altogether.

[USS Utah]

I could do without the religious aspects.

[big z]

I could do without the religious aspects.


I agree

[GarthUte]

I'm okay with BYU on the schedule, but quite honestly, I'd much rather see the game played in September. Because of the rivalry aspect, it's not a gimme game for either team and I'd rather not see the Utes have a November loss to a non-conference team.

[FountainOfUte]

You want to keep BYU relevant in the state of Utah? Start stringing together 5-7 seasons.

Amen, amen, and amen (and Halleluja.)

[USS Utah]

Regarding the continuation of the Utah-BYU series: if its about the game, about competition, I guess I can live with that -- however, if we view BYU going Independent to be a mistake, we are only helping to ameliorate that mistake. But if it is about religion, I have no interest whatsoever.

For those of you who are upset with the announcement, note that the contract has not been signed yet. You still have a chance to make your voice heard. If you are in the majority, maybe letting Dr. Hill know how you feel with still help.

[sancho]

Do you realize how foolish this sentiment is when you see other Pac-12 schools scheduling BYU? Arizona and USC are on the docket (albeit some years off) and I'm sure there will be more.


True, but to be fair, those are 2-1 deals with BYU. We are the only Pac-12 giving an even deal to the Cougars. And, of course, we should do 1-1 with them based on our history.

[LA Ute]

I'm okay with BYU on the schedule, but quite honestly, I'd much rather see the game played in September. Because of the rivalry aspect, it's not a gimme game for either team and I'd rather not see the Utes have a November loss to a non-conference team.

As I've said many times, I have a love-hate relationship with the BYU rivalry game. If we must have it, the end of the season is the best time, IMO. It then remains a game only for bragging rights. I don't think playing us helps them all that much in the overall scheme of things. They'll succeed or fail on their own.

The only tiny and dark part of my soul that likes the idea of dissing them is the spiteful part that wants revenge for the way they treated us during the Dark Years. That period is fading farther and farther into the past, however. Most people under age 30 don't even remember it.

[SoCalPat]

True, but to be fair, those are 2-1 deals with BYU. We are the only Pac-12 giving an even deal to the Cougars. And, of course, we should do 1-1 with them based on our history.

That's true. You gotta wonder why BYU took a 2-for-1 with USC when it had a home-and-home with them a decade ago.

Arizona is essentially a 1-1-1, given the number of BYU alumni in Phoenix. I don't think BYU views that game as a road contest at all.

One thing I need to bring up, unrelated to your post, is that I see way too many Utah fans who want to discredit our limitations in scheduling non-conference games. There has to be a pot-sweetener for us to lure a Michigan or Texas A&M to RES (in both instances, it is a Thursday night game on ESPN to open the season). BYU not only has the stadium size, but it's calendar is much more wide open.

We want the sexy names, but sexy doesn't play in SLC in mid-September unless we're willing to fork over money above and beyond what we generate on gameday. Which is why games against FCS and MWC teams are far more likely to be a fixture on future schedules than games against BCS opponents. Until RES is expanded, we're still bargain shoppers when it comes to the majority of our non-con games.

[sancho]

That's true. You gotta wonder why BYU took a 2-for-1 with USC when it had a home-and-home with them a decade ago.

Arizona is essentially a 1-1-1, given the number of BYU alumni in Phoenix. I don't think BYU views that game as a road contest at all.


At this point, BYU has pretty much established what it is willing/able to do as an independent. Solo away games with powerhouse teams (Nebraska, Michigan, West Va). 2-1 series with any BCS team, with a desire to get the 2nd away game at a neutral site (Texas, ND, USC, Wisconsin, Zona). 1-1 games with Utah, MWC teams, CUSA teams, AAC teams and pretty much anyone else except pathetic USU.

BYU can consider the game in Phoenix whatever it wants, but unless the Wildcats have a couple of very bad years it is still going to be overwhelmingly Arizona in fan support.

[UteBeliever aka Port]

This is fabulous news for those of us who don't obsess over BYU save for one week out of the year and can keep the rivalry in perspective.

Fabulous? :rolleyes:


True, but to be fair, those are 2-1 deals with BYU. We are the only Pac-12 giving an even deal to the Cougars. And, of course, we should do 1-1 with them based on our history.

You start out strong and then wander off the trail. Why should we do a 1-1 with them based on our history? BYU had a history with USU and turned around and shat on them. Why should BYU be treated any differently? They believe in the Golden Rule. They've done unto others....now is the chance for it to be done unto them.

When the rest of our conference mates are doing 2-1s with BYU, we sign a 1-1. Nice deal, Hill.

And, no, the 1-1-1 isn't "practically" a home game, even if Pat says it is. There will be a 2-1 Arizona presence at that game. Sure, BYU will have fans there, but it will be a decidedly Arizona crowd.

[UteBeliever aka Port]

1-1 games with Utah, MWC teams, CUSA teams, AAC teams and pretty much anyone else except pathetic USU.



Right. This once sentence sums up the entire situation. BYU sticks it to USU. For no good reason. Yet we kowtow to their demands for a 1-1 even when the rest of our conference won't touch a 1-1 with those boneheads.

Why?

[roseparkutes]

I like having TDS on the schedule. I do wish they played in 14, 15. But I do like the idea of the November game

[Scorcho]

couple of thoughts ....

1) if I recall correctly, Jeff Lebowski booted us off of his site because the rivalry wasn't continuing, are we now welcomed back ?

2) I thought BYU was playing USC after Thanksgiving in 2021 ???

3) if the Big 10 Alliance had worked out, this doesn't happen

[Ma'ake]

An overthought and meaningless concern. We laid one turdburger of an egg against CU in 2011 and didn't have playing BYU the week before to blame for that.

Bottom line, if Kyle can't adjust and find ways to have his team bypass this perceived "hangover effect" from beating BYU, he needs to find another line of work. There are no weeks off in the Pac-12, and if we're willing to use this is an excuse for subpar efforts or to dodge scheduling certain teams, we need to find a coach who avoids it altogether.

I don't disagree with your point, and actually I hope we're in a position where we can approach that game as another game and still have the talent to beat a highly motivated BYU, (pretty much exactly how we should have beat Utah State last year, even though the Ags were definitely well prepared & highly motivated. There's a sizable gap in talent between us and USU, and we should absolutely win that first game this year, even if it's ugly.)

But honestly, there are hangovers in college football, there just are. Case in point: Alabama vs Utah in the Sugar Bowl. Certainly Tide fans weren't impressed by their performance and getting beat by a MWC team, but after being #1 most of the year they got beat by the Gators in the SEC Championship game and they came out flat against us. (We took advantage and by the time they woke up, the gap was too big.)

In hindsight, the Sugar Bowl in early '09 wasn't Saban's best job of coaching, but Tide fans have been rewarded for not running him out of town.

By 2016, we better have enough talent to handle the BYU game with less of a risk of a trough afterwards. I can't see in the foreseeable future how that game *won't* be an emotional game, but we need to get to the point where BYU was when they played us in the 80s. We were always primed for that game, and almost always lost, because they were simply superior. We need to get to that point with BYU, where it's just a little less of a reason for a euphoric celebration for our players. A really good, satisfying win, but our guys have to have in the back of their minds that it's right back to the grindstone getting ready for a more important game.

Getting a consistently high level of performance boils down to player leadership, as much as anything. It all starts with KW, and the rest of the coaches, but eventually the team really belongs to the players, and it does (generally) as well as player-leaders can inspire, day in & day out. When you have seniors giving a half effort in practice, that quickly ripples throughout the other players, and the exhortations of the coaches becomes noise.

This year's team has talent, but we're young. I really, really want to know who the player-leaders are going to be, and how well they'll lead through the mud, through the fire.

[sancho]

You start out strong and then wander off the trail. Why should we do a 1-1 with them based on our history? BYU had a history with USU and turned around and shat on them. Why should BYU be treated any differently?

Hmmm, I guess what I meant was - based on our history, it's a 1-1 or nothing (with good cases to be made for either). They will not accept a 2-1 from us. They would crawl back to the MWC before that.

[SoCalPat]

Fabulous? :rolleyes:



You start out strong and then wander off the trail. Why should we do a 1-1 with them based on our history? BYU had a history with USU and turned around and shat on them. Why should BYU be treated any differently? They believe in the Golden Rule. They've done unto others....now is the chance for it to be done unto them.

When the rest of our conference mates are doing 2-1s with BYU, we sign a 1-1. Nice deal, Hill.

There is no point in trying to have a rational discussion with anyone who tries equating Utah State of 10-15 years ago to BYU of today. They've long wandered off the trail -- they're exploring new galaxies in outer space.

[SoCalPat]

I don't disagree with your point, and actually I hope we're in a position where we can approach that game as another game and still have the talent to beat a highly motivated BYU, (pretty much exactly how we should have beat Utah State last year, even though the Ags were definitely well prepared & highly motivated. There's a sizable gap in talent between us and USU, and we should absolutely win that first game this year, even if it's ugly.)

But honestly, there are hangovers in college football, there just are. Case in point: Alabama vs Utah in the Sugar Bowl. Certainly Tide fans weren't impressed by their performance and getting beat by a MWC team, but after being #1 most of the year they got beat by the Gators in the SEC Championship game and they came out flat against us. (We took advantage and by the time they woke up, the gap was too big.)

In hindsight, the Sugar Bowl in early '09 wasn't Saban's best job of coaching, but Tide fans have been rewarded for not running him out of town.

By 2016, we better have enough talent to handle the BYU game with less of a risk of a trough afterwards. I can't see in the foreseeable future how that game *won't* be an emotional game, but we need to get to the point where BYU was when they played us in the 80s. We were always primed for that game, and almost always lost, because they were simply superior. We need to get to that point with BYU, where it's just a little less of a reason for a euphoric celebration for our players. A really good, satisfying win, but our guys have to have in the back of their minds that it's right back to the grindstone getting ready for a more important game.

Getting a consistently high level of performance boils down to player leadership, as much as anything. It all starts with KW, and the rest of the coaches, but eventually the team really belongs to the players, and it does (generally) as well as player-leaders can inspire, day in & day out. When you have seniors giving a half effort in practice, that quickly ripples throughout the other players, and the exhortations of the coaches becomes noise.

This year's team has talent, but we're young. I really, really want to know who the player-leaders are going to be, and how well they'll lead through the mud, through the fire.

This is why I respect the hell out of Ma'ake. He won't disagree with me, but he'll give me something to think about to almost get me to retract what I originally said. Almost.

To carry on your point regarding leadership, I'm not sure once Robert Johnson left that we've had that true leader on either side of the ball.

[Applejack]

BYU sticks it to USU. For no good reason. Yet we kowtow to their demands for a 1-1 even when the rest of our conference won't touch a 1-1 with those boneheads.

Why?

Who cares who started it between the Aggies and the Cougars? We play BYU 1-1 because THEY ARE OUR RIVAL. And it's not like home field means jack squat in this game.


The only tiny and dark part of my soul that likes the idea of dissing them is the spiteful part that wants revenge for the way they treated us during the Dark Years. That period is fading farther and farther into the past, however. Most people under age 30 don't even remember it.

Two points:

1. The Dark Years were the best. Chris Yergensen? Scott Mitchell? Those two names will never be topped in Utah-BYU lore.
2. Why would the solution to them mistreating us in the past (how, by being douchey?) be to quit playing them? We have better talent than BYU and likely will for the foreseeable future. Hill's plan not to play BYU next year is terrible because the Cougars will be on a down year and I like our squad in 2014.

Is anyone scared of BYU? I'm not. Sure we will lose to them in years when we have more talent, but on the whole we will beat them more than they will beat us. If we want to return the favor from the 80s, we should just wipe the floor with them for a decade. We are off to a great start.

[sancho]

Who cares who started it between the Aggies and the Cougars? We play BYU 1-1 because THEY ARE OUR RIVAL. And it's not like home field means jack squat in this game.

I don't really know how it works, but I assume home field means something financially. But I agree with you - it will never be 2-1. So it's 1-1 or nothing.


If we want to return the favor from the 80s, we should just wipe the floor with them for a decade. We are off to a great start

I definitely share this feeling. But if we are wiping the floor with them for a decade, should we be doing it Thanksgiving weekend? If we really do leave them behind as a program (which is a long way off and is not a certainty at all), that game belongs in September. The CU game has potential to become, over time, a nice rivalry with potential occasional national interest.

Speaking of CU, they are the only other Big 5 school I can think of right now with a non-Big 5 rival. They play CSU in Sept.

You are right that the USU thing doesn't really affect the BYU/Utah scheduling, but you have to admit that BYU has treated USU like dirt for a long time. BYU came very close to ruining USU football altogether with their failed backroom conference dealings. There is merit in the idea of not wanting to associate with people like that (or in wiping the floor with them for a decade!).

[sancho]

One thing that has been said is that the November game with Provo in 2018 is a one time deal to help with conference scheduling so that no league member would have to play 12 games in a row.

Can someone explain that to me? I not sure what is meant, and I'm not sure what Utah vs BYU in November vs September has to do with it.

[Scratch]

One minor thing to point out, that you can interpret however you want, is that if you look at this objectively, taking out the rivalry aspects, based upon where Utah is, this is certainly the best scheduling contract that BYU has signed (for BYU) since BYU went independent.

[sancho]

One minor thing to point out, that you can interpret however you want, is that if you look at this objectively, taking out the rivalry aspects, based upon where Utah is, this is certainly the best scheduling contract that BYU has signed (for BYU) since BYU went independent.

Yes, along with the Boise State deal. But you can't really take the rivalry aspect out of the equation, since it is the only reason the deal was made.

[Ma'ake]

One thing that has been said is that the November game with Provo in 2018 is a one time deal to help with conference scheduling so that no league member would have to play 12 games in a row.

Can someone explain that to me? I not sure what is meant, and I'm not sure what Utah vs BYU in November vs September has to do with it.

I think this has to do with the ripple effect that Stanford and USC playing Notre Dame later in the year presents to the rest of the league. If the PAC stuck to their guns on no-non-conference-games-after-September, then making the intra-league schedule work is easy. But because Notre Dame plays SC and Stanford, that screws up the schedules, and with Utah playing BYU late, it evens things out for other PAC schools.

I think more than anything Chris Hill wanted to say "we're playing late in 2018, but don't assume that will always be the case".

[LA Ute]

Two points:

1. The Dark Years were the best. Chris Yergensen? Scott Mitchell? Those two names will never be topped in Utah-BYU lore.
2. Why would the solution to them mistreating us in the past (how, by being douchey?) be to quit playing them? We have better talent than BYU and likely will for the foreseeable future. Hill's plan not to play BYU next year is terrible because the Cougars will be on a down year and I like our squad in 2014.

Is anyone scared of BYU? I'm not. Sure we will lose to them in years when we have more talent, but on the whole we will beat them more than they will beat us. If we want to return the favor from the 80s, we should just wipe the floor with them for a decade. We are off to a great start.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you 100%. I was just opening up a dark portion of my soul, the not-so-good fallen angels in my nature. Be gentle with me.

BTW, to me the Dark Years ended in 1993 when we became competitive with those turkeys again.

[USS Utah]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you 100%. I was just opening up a dark portion of my soul, the not-so-good fallen angels in my nature. Be gentle with me.

BTW, to me the Dark Years ended in 1993 when we became competitive with those turkeys again.

I would say 1992 -- while we lost it was only because we ran out of time. Plus it was the first bowl season in forever.

[LA Ute]

I would say 1992 -- while we lost it was only because we ran out of time. Plus it was the first bowl season in forever.

Fair enough. Memories!

[UBlender]

One thing that has been said is that the November game with Provo in 2018 is a one time deal to help with conference scheduling so that no league member would have to play 12 games in a row.

Can someone explain that to me? I not sure what is meant, and I'm not sure what Utah vs BYU in November vs September has to do with it.

He is referring to making it so someone doesn't have to go 12 straight weeks without a bye (the bye week would be either first or last week of the season and kind of useless in that case). How or why that is the case with Utah-BYU in November as opposed to September is probably only something that one could determine with access to the entire conference's schedules at this point and a lot of time on their hands. (No, scratch, I'm not doing it).

[UBlender]

There is no point in trying to have a rational discussion with anyone who tries equating Utah State of 10-15 years ago to BYU of today. They've long wandered off the trail -- they're exploring new galaxies in outer space.

Not only that, but Utah is (quietly, I suppose) starting to give Utah State the same treatment. It has been stated (if not issued publicly) that Utah has bought out of its scheduled visit to Logan in 2014 and will only play USU in RES henceforth.

My stance is that I want to continue the rivalry with BYU, but not every year and not in November. For those who want to drop the rivalry, using BYU's treatment of USU as justification is hypocritical since we are in the process of making a similar, if not stronger, stand on that point.

[LA Ute]

Not only that, but Utah is (quietly, I suppose) starting to give Utah State the same treatment. It has been stated (if not issued publicly) that Utah has bought out of its scheduled visit to Logan in 2014 and will only play USU in RES henceforth.

My stance is that I want to continue the rivalry with BYU, but not every year and not in November. For those who want to drop the rivalry, using BYU's treatment of USU as justification is hypocritical since we are in the process of making a similar, if not stronger, stand on that point.

Apart from all that, I do not like the idea of Utah using BYU's past unattractive behavior as a guide. It's a terrible model to follow and doing so makes us look like little brother in the worst way. We should be successful and classy at the same time. That's something BYU was not able to do during its long-ago golden years.

[Utahute72]

This BYU fan is happy to see the rivalry extended. I find Absolution's reasoning and anger humorous (and pathetic). Eventually, I think we'll see the series settle into an every-other-year, late-season affair. I'm cool with that.


Of course you would like that because BYU has trouble scheduling quality opponents at home in November. I don't see it as likely that Utah will ever play BYU at LES in November again.

[concerned]

Of course you would like that because BYU has trouble scheduling quality opponents at home in November. I don't see it as likely that Utah will ever play BYU at LES in November again.

I seems as though the Pac 12 has agreed to allow teams to schedule home games against the Y in november to get the tv inventory; cant imainge they would allow a pac 12 team to play an away game that last week of the season.

[wally]

Just a regular guy's opinion...

Our focus should be foremost on the PAC 12. Bending over backwards to schedule BYU helps them through the challenges of being independent. Rather than separating ourselves over time from them we are helping them remain relevant in the State of Utah.

Shouldn't we be beating our competition in every way instead of helping them? I fail to see how scheduling BYU helps Utah's long term interests in our new conference. We have a long way to go to catch up in the PAC 12 and it will not be an easy task. We can do both but I'd rather have a singular focus for our athletic department. I would bet the super majority of BYU fans are happy and probably relieved that this was scheduled.
.......

Your logic would make sense if we were talking about a tangible product that you might choose to purchase over another. College football, however is different in that the product is entertainment. Moreover the entertainment is in head-to-head competition and on-the-field performance is what wins over the marketshare.

Rivalries make money for college football and the Utah/Byu rivalry is a great one. I would think that making the most money possible is in "Utah's best long-term interests", as you put it and I am not clear on how scheduling BYU impedes any goals the program has. I wonder how much the University makes scheduling BYU versus scheduling other bigger name schools. Any insights?

I also often wonder whether it would be possible to quantify the economic benefit (to each school and the community) of the rivalry and what the total dollar amount might be.

I am happy that the rivalry resumes. This rivalry really means something to Utah locally, and especially given emphasis of pageantry in college football, it would almost be embarrassing not to play it at all, given the proximity and micro-geopolitics of Utah.

I think that after Utah being admitted to the P12, some of us fans would do well to remember the roots of the Utah program and not trip over ourselves to reinvent the traditions that we already have. Utah has a proud tradition of thumping BYU and that should continue on some regular basis.

[SoCalPat]

Apart from all that, I do not like the idea of Utah using BYU's past unattractive behavior as a guide. It's a terrible model to follow and doing so makes us look like little brother in the worst way. We should be successful and classy at the same time. That's something BYU was not able to do during its long-ago golden years.

Let's quit pretending that BYU is the only one to have done Utah State wrong when it came to football. Utah and BYU joined forces long ago to keep Utah State out of the WAC when it was formed in the early 1960s. I doubt there's a person who's participated in this discussion that would say that wasn't the right move to make. I know I sleep easy at night as a Ute fan with the knowledge we set USU football back decades by stonewalling them out of the WAC. And I'll feel likewise when the day comes when we stop playing in Logan, or schedule 3-1s with them.

Since Pac-12 membership, it's become even easier to identify the self-loathing Ute fan among us, namely, they want to exact revenge upon BYU for any perceived wrong done in the past. As if getting into the Pac-12 wasn't enough. Winners don't make excuses, and although we won that battle decisively, the number of Ute fans demanding a pound of flesh delivered to them with a Provo postmark on it is legion. It would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic seeing fellow Ute fans making complete idiots out of themselves. Instead, that segment has become everything we loathed about BCS "fanbase entitlement" that we experienced while in the MWC. Classy? Take Wally's advice and remember our roots.

[LA Ute]

Let's quit pretending that BYU is the only one to have done Utah State wrong when it came to football. Utah and BYU joined forces long ago to keep Utah State out of the WAC when it was formed in the early 1960s. I doubt there's a person who's participated in this discussion that would say that wasn't the right move to make. I know I sleep easy at night as a Ute fan with the knowledge we set USU football back decades by stonewalling them out of the WAC. And I'll feel likewise when the day comes when we stop playing in Logan, or schedule 3-1s with them.

Since Pac-12 membership, it's become even easier to identify the self-loathing Ute fan among us, namely, they want to exact revenge upon BYU for any perceived wrong done in the past. As if getting into the Pac-12 wasn't enough. Winners don't make excuses, and although we won that battle decisively, the number of Ute fans demanding a pound of flesh delivered to them with a Provo postmark on it is legion. It would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic seeing fellow Ute fans making complete idiots out of themselves. Instead, that segment has become everything we loathed about BCS "fanbase entitlement" that we experienced while in the MWC. Classy? Take Wally's advice and remember our roots.

I'm not sure exactly what your point is, but mine was in response to Port's argument that BYU was horrible to USU after the Cougars moved to a higher level, and therefore we should do the same to BYU now. Nothing you've said responds to my post. Maybe you were responding to someone else?

[SoCalPat]

I'm not sure exactly what your point is, but mine was in response to Port's argument that BYU was horrible to USU after the Cougars moved to a higher level, and therefore we should do the same to BYU now. Nothing you've said responds to my post. Maybe you were responding to someone else?

And we were horrible to USU, too. Not just BYU. That was my point in responding to your post, before I went off on my own tangent. And to reiterate, I'm fine with what we did with USU in the 1960s, and so is everyone else here. To hammer BYU for doing likewise, more recently, is to be either ignorant or hypocritical.

[Mormon Red Death]

And we were horrible to USU, too. Not just BYU. That was my point in responding to your post, before I went off on my own tangent. And to reiterate, I'm fine with what we did with USU in the 1960s, and so is everyone else here. To hammer BYU for doing likewise, more recently, is to be either ignorant or hypocritical.

Who gives a shit if we were horrible to USU in the 60s? Here is the fact of the matter. Giving 1-1 with byu or USU every year is not a viable plan for Utah as long as the PAC12 has 9 conference games. If we do that we will essentially have the same schedule every year one divII game at home, One home vs usu/byu one away vs usu/byu then the pac12 schedule. So we have a couple options:

Scenrario 1:If byu or usu wont go 2-1 or 3-1 with us then we alternate and play only one of those teams every year.
Scenario 2: If USU or byu wants to go 2-1 with us then we can play them every year or 4 out of 5.

There is no malice in this just simply how it has to be to make sense for Utah. Just like when byu made 4-1 with USU, Idaho or NMSU they needed that because their situation is that they have to give 4-1 to Notre Dame and texas

If byu will do scenario 2 then Utah can make the game always in November. Its a win win as Utah's schedule is helped and Byu's fills out their November schedule. Also Once out of every 3 years They get Utah at home in November a game they can sell to their fans. Sure some byu fans might complain but since when has byu admin listened to its fans?

[sancho]

And we were horrible to USU, too.

Sure, we treated USU like any other flagship school would have treated them. But BYU's treatment went further. BYU pretended to be looking out for USU, made a secret pact with them, and nearly ruined their entire program. USU is very lucky to have a conference today. If the MWC were smarter, USU would not have a conference today and would be an independent like Idaho. Yes, much of that can be blamed on USU's own stupidity and naivete, but BYU definitely played a role.

After screwing USU so hard, maybe BYU owes them 1-1's for a while. The truly embarrassing thing for Aggies is that USU continues to play them at all.

[Utah]

Your logic would make sense if we were talking about a tangible product that you might choose to purchase over another. College football, however is different in that the product is entertainment. Moreover the entertainment is in head-to-head competition and on-the-field performance is what wins over the marketshare.

Rivalries make money for college football and the Utah/Byu rivalry is a great one. I would think that making the most money possible is in "Utah's best long-term interests", as you put it and I am not clear on how scheduling BYU impedes any goals the program has. I wonder how much the University makes scheduling BYU versus scheduling other bigger name schools. Any insights?

I also often wonder whether it would be possible to quantify the economic benefit (to each school and the community) of the rivalry and what the total dollar amount might be.

I am happy that the rivalry resumes. This rivalry really means something to Utah locally, and especially given emphasis of pageantry in college football, it would almost be embarrassing not to play it at all, given the proximity and micro-geopolitics of Utah.

I think that after Utah being admitted to the P12, some of us fans would do well to remember the roots of the Utah program and not trip over ourselves to reinvent the traditions that we already have. Utah has a proud tradition of thumping BYU and that should continue on some regular basis.

I would bet that the money isn't a big issue. A home game for Utah is a home game for Utah right now. Either way, it is sold out. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Utah made more off concessions on non-BYU games than BYU games.

A road game, I would bet that Utah would make a lot more money off a neutral site game, or having an additional home game instead of playing BYU on the road.

[Utah]

Let's quit pretending that BYU is the only one to have done Utah State wrong when it came to football. Utah and BYU joined forces long ago to keep Utah State out of the WAC when it was formed in the early 1960s. I doubt there's a person who's participated in this discussion that would say that wasn't the right move to make. I know I sleep easy at night as a Ute fan with the knowledge we set USU football back decades by stonewalling them out of the WAC. And I'll feel likewise when the day comes when we stop playing in Logan, or schedule 3-1s with them.

Since Pac-12 membership, it's become even easier to identify the self-loathing Ute fan among us, namely, they want to exact revenge upon BYU for any perceived wrong done in the past. As if getting into the Pac-12 wasn't enough. Winners don't make excuses, and although we won that battle decisively, the number of Ute fans demanding a pound of flesh delivered to them with a Provo postmark on it is legion. It would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic seeing fellow Ute fans making complete idiots out of themselves. Instead, that segment has become everything we loathed about BCS "fanbase entitlement" that we experienced while in the MWC. Classy? Take Wally's advice and remember our roots.

I'll remember my roots and show BYU respect when they do the same to me. That school deserves what they get. They sow their own seeds of trust and companionship, and when people spit in their faces, before they get all high and mighty, they should take a step back and look at who they previously spit on. I'd bet they would find a lot of their DNA on the people trying to kick them down now.

[kccougar]

i'll remember my roots and show byu respect when they do the same to me. That school deserves what they get. They sow their own seeds of trust and companionship, and when people spit in their faces, before they get all high and mighty, they should take a step back and look at who they previously spit on. I'd bet they would find a lot of their dna on the people trying to kick them down now.

lol.

[Flystripper]

Sure, we treated USU like any other flagship school would have treated them. But BYU's treatment went further. BYU pretended to be looking out for USU, made a secret pact with them, and nearly ruined their entire program. USU is very lucky to have a conference today. If the MWC were smarter, USU would not have a conference today and would be an independent like Idaho. Yes, much of that can be blamed on USU's own stupidity and naivete, but BYU definitely played a role.

After screwing USU so hard, maybe BYU owes them 1-1's for a while. The truly embarrassing thing for Aggies is that USU continues to play them at all.

:confused: I don't understand this. USU is a good fit for the MWC today.

USU and BYU are happy to continue to develop a growing rivalry with each other since Utah is reluctant to play either school. BYU did screw up in conference realignment but the relationship between the schools remains a strong one.

[U-Ute]

One thing that has been said is that the November game with Provo in 2018 is a one time deal to help with conference scheduling so that no league member would have to play 12 games in a row.

Can someone explain that to me? I not sure what is meant, and I'm not sure what Utah vs BYU in November vs September has to do with it.

My guess is that we were scheduled to have 3 September OOC games and a BYE the last weekend of the season, and the league is giving teams in those situations the option to swap one of those OOC games with their BYE.

[Crimsonute]

:confused: I don't understand this. USU is a good fit for the MWC today.

USU and BYU are happy to continue to develop a growing rivalry with since Utah is reluctant to play either school. BYU did screw up in conference realignment but the relationship between the schools remains a strong one.I agree. BYU tried to pull UNLV and SDSU from the MWC, and create the BYU is WAC Conference. This made MWC grab Fresno St and Nevada. Then TCU left. Then the who mid major shift happend, and spelled the end of the Big LEast and the WAC. Yet Utah St want to keep playing, and BYU wants a 2 for 1 from them.

[sancho]

:confused: I don't understand this. USU is a good fit for the MWC today.

I don't see why. USU doesn't really add anything to the conference. The MWC was unstable - losing SDSU and BSU - and panicked into grabbing SJSU and USU. Maybe it was the right move at the time, but if they knew BSU and SDSU would return, they would not have added the WAC schools. Those two schools drain money without adding much of value. At least at 12 now they can have a conference championship game to offset some of those losses. The problem now is that they have 12 teams, and there is no room for BYU should independence not work out (or they would have to go with an unwieldy 13 teams or add someone like Idaho).

Other than that mistake, the MWC played realignment pretty well. The morning I woke up and read that BYU was trying to join the WAC, I immediately said to myself "time for the MWC to blow up the WAC." By that afternoon, the MWC had blown up the WAC. Poor, stupid USU was still holding to some naive belief that everyone would stick together under BYU's leadership in the WAC. USU really got lucky in getting a second chance to join.

[sancho]

My guess is that we were scheduled to have 3 September OOC games and a BYE the last weekend of the season, and the league is giving teams in those situations the option to swap one of those OOC games with their BYE.

Is Notre Dame really worth all this? What is the point in having a rule if it can be broken so easily? USC and Utah playing November home games against BYU. Rumors that Stanford will also do a 2-1 with BYU coming to Palo Alto in November. Why even have the rule if 25% of the conference doen't have to abide by it? USC/ND is a sacred rivalry? Fine. But Stanford/ND? Give me a break.

[Applejack]

I'll remember my roots and show BYU respect when they do the same to me. That school deserves what they get. They sow their own seeds of trust and companionship, and when people spit in their faces, before they get all high and mighty, they should take a step back and look at who they previously spit on. I'd bet they would find a lot of their DNA on the people trying to kick them down now.

Haha! See, this confirms my point. THIS POST is why we should, nay, must continue to play BYU. Do you, Utah, care this much about Colorado? I will bet my childhood baseball card collection that you don't.

Hell, I can't name a SINGLE player on the Buffs football team, but I can give you a reasonable guess about BYU's starting lineup (although I might have to guess at some of the lineman with fake, vaguely BYUish names like Manolumaiuo, Jensen, Jeppsen, and Trost). If you hate BYU this much, why oh why, would we stop scheduling them? To big-time them? As payback? No way! You continue to schedule them because now is the time of our power and glory!

[Utah]

Haha! See, this confirms my point. THIS POST is why we should, nay, must continue to play BYU. Do you, Utah, care this much about Colorado? I will bet my childhood baseball card collection that you don't.

Hell, I can't name a SINGLE player on the Buffs football team, but I can give you a reasonable guess about BYU's starting lineup (although I might have to guess at some of the lineman with fake, vaguely BYUish names like Manolumaiuo, Jensen, Jeppsen, and Trost). If you hate BYU this much, why oh why, would we stop scheduling them? To big-time them? As payback? No way! You continue to schedule them because now is the time of our power and glory!

I don't have a problem playing them at all. After last year's game, where everything went wrong for Utah and everything went right for BYU and Utah still won...I don't think the game will be won by BYU too frequently in the future. SoCal just said that we need to remember our roots, like somehow BYU deserved some respect from Utah. All BYU deserves from Utah is an ass kicking every fall.

[Flystripper]

I don't see why. USU doesn't really add anything to the conference.

Recent success in football - (top 20 finish last year and might be the top team in the conference this year since they return just about everyone.)

Quality basketball

Presence in Utah

Regional proximity to the other schools

Seems like a nice addition to me.

Oh you are talking about money...Nobody is making big money in the MWC

[Applejack]

I don't have a problem playing them at all. After last year's game, where everything went wrong for Utah and everything went right for BYU and Utah still won...I don't think the game will be won by BYU too frequently in the future. SoCal just said that we need to remember our roots, like somehow BYU deserved some respect from Utah. All BYU deserves from Utah is an ass kicking every fall.

That's the spirit!


Recent success in football - (top 20 finish last year and might be the top team in the conference this year since they return just about everyone.)

Quality basketball

Presence in Utah

Regional proximity to the other schools

Seems like a nice addition to me.

Oh you are talking about money...Nobody is making big money in the MWC

This seems like an easy argument. USU compares quite favorably to most MWC members. I think they have potential to sustain decent teams going forward as well.

[U-Ute]

I say play them, crush them, and own all of the in-state recruits.



Mongol General: Hao! Dai ye! We won again! This is good, but what is best in life?

Mongol: The open steppe, fleet horse, falcons at your wrist, and the wind in your hair.

Mongol General: Wrong! Conan! What is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

Mongol General: That is good! That is good.

[sancho]

Recent success in football - (top 20 finish last year and might be the top team in the conference this year since they return just about everyone.)

Quality basketball

Presence in Utah

Regional proximity to the other schools

Seems like a nice addition to me.

Oh you are talking about money...Nobody is making big money in the MWC

I guess so. If the MWC were forced to expand, USU makes more sense than, say, New Mexico State. But expansion is about one of two things: (1) Money or (2) Survival. Clearly USU brings no money. In fact, each team has less money because of USU. The MWC thought they needed USU for survival. Turns out they were wrong. If the other 10 schools could undo the USU/SJSU additions today, they would do it without hesitation. As it is, though, they can feel content knowing that there are far worse things than USU and SJSU.

A lot of people share your optimism for USU football. I am skeptical. I see them returning to the bottom third of the conference within a few seasons. We'll see though. They certainly have momentum.

[sancho]

After last year's game, where everything went wrong for Utah and everything went right for BYU and Utah still won...I don't think the game will be won by BYU too frequently in the future.

So many Utah fans think this is a foregone conclusion. I certainly think it's possible, but it's just as possible that BYU gets a few big upsets this year, goes 10-2, has a great recruiting season, and starts to build momentum again. BYU is still far from dead.

I hope dead man walking does status comes for them. That's the rival's dream.

[Utah]

So many Utah fans think this is a foregone conclusion. I certainly think it's possible, but it's just as possible that BYU gets a few big upsets this year, goes 10-2, has a great recruiting season, and starts to build momentum again. BYU is still far from dead.

I hope dead man walking does status comes for them. That's the rival's dream.

Since PAC-12, Utah's average recruiting class rank is in the 30's. BYU's is 70. BYU had six fumbles last year. It could have easily been another 54-10, and that was with a DII QB, no OL, no White. BYU isn't as good as they were last year. Utah had better not lose. Whitt hasn't done a lot of things/had a lot of things go right for him the last two years. Losing this game would be devastating to him/his reputation. Utah had better win, especially if they don't think they can make a bowl game.

[Applejack]

So many Utah fans think this is a foregone conclusion. I certainly think it's possible, but it's just as possible that BYU gets a few big upsets this year, goes 10-2, has a great recruiting season, and starts to build momentum again. BYU is still far from dead.

I hope dead man walking does status comes for them. That's the rival's dream.

I agree. Byu-Utah is always a coin flip, regardless of talent.

And BYU will never die. They are like John the Revelator, or Cain/Bigfoot. They could go 0-12 and still get a few top prospects from the state.

[sancho]

Since PAC-12, Utah's average recruiting class rank is in the 30's. BYU's is 70. BYU had six fumbles last year. It could have easily been another 54-10, and that was with a DII QB, no OL, no White. BYU isn't as good as they were last year. Utah had better not lose. Whitt hasn't done a lot of things/had a lot of things go right for him the last two years. Losing this game would be devastating to him/his reputation. Utah had better win, especially if they don't think they can make a bowl game.

Boise's recruitng rank is usually down in the 60s or 70s too, and they have been better than all Pac-12 teams other than USC, Stanford, and Oregon over the past decade.

Let's say BYU loses those fumbles last year and we win in a rout. Does that necessarily mean BYU's days of being competitive are done? No. It takes a long time for a proud program to die, and that proud program can return at any point - it has the money and infrastructure already in place.

[Utah]

Boise's recruitng rank is usually down in the 60s or 70s too, and they have been better than all Pac-12 teams other than USC, Stanford, and Oregon over the past decade.

Let's say BYU loses those fumbles last year and we win in a rout. Does that necessarily mean BYU's days of being competitive are done? No. It takes a long time for a proud program to die, and that proud program can return at any point - it has the money and infrastructure already in place.

Does BYU have Moore or Peterson? Then not a good comparison.

[Applejack]

Since PAC-12, Utah's average recruiting class rank is in the 30's. BYU's is 70. BYU had six fumbles last year. It could have easily been another 54-10, and that was with a DII QB, no OL, no White. BYU isn't as good as they were last year. Utah had better not lose. Whitt hasn't done a lot of things/had a lot of things go right for him the last two years. Losing this game would be devastating to him/his reputation. Utah had better win, especially if they don't think they can make a bowl game.

You can make a lot of money in Vegas with that confidence. The oddsmakers will have BYU as solid favorites this year. And rightly so, I believe. We have more overall talent, but we have some huge question marks (OL, DL, LBs, DBs, RB) whereas BYU knows what it's getting everywhere but QB and D-line.

But I still like our moxie.

[sancho]

You can make a lot of money in Vegas with that confidence. The oddsmakers will have BYU as solid favorites this year. And rightly so, I believe. We have more overall talent, but we have some huge question marks (OL, DL, LBs, DBs, RB) whereas BYU knows what it's getting everywhere but QB and D-line.

But I still like our moxie.

Van Noy and Hoffman will get drafted in a year. I don't know if we can say that with certainty about anyone on our team. A great pass-rushing LB can turn a so-so defense into a very tough defense. I hope he gets crotch rot during their bye week.

[Utah]

You can make a lot of money in Vegas with that confidence. The oddsmakers will have BYU as solid favorites this year. And rightly so, I believe. We have more overall talent, but we have some huge question marks (OL, DL, LBs, DBs, RB) whereas BYU knows what it's getting everywhere but QB and D-line.

But I still like our moxie.

BYU has new OL, new OC, and new QB. How did that work out for Utah last year? Also, they lost a lot off their DL and I think 2 or 3 of their LB'ers will be new starters. Plus they lost their CB's. They do not know what they are getting. Their Depth chart lists a starting DE at 215 lbs.

How's Van Noy going to do when he has a 215 lb end eating up blockers? ha ha.

DL is NEVER a question mark with Kyle. The guy creates NFL DT's. When has Kyle NOT had an NFL tackle on the DL?

Utah will better than last year at the following positions, no questions asked:

QB - a second year Wilson is better than freshman or DII QB
RB - healthy RB's are better than injured White
OL - they can't be worse
TE - again, the TE's should improve
WR - DVC hurt the WR's. Scott and Anderson will be a year better
OC - Erickson is better than Johnson, and Johnson is still around. And I thought BJ did a good job last year given the situation.

LB - They can't be worse
CB/S - Only ONE DB played in all 12 games for Utah last year. Only ONE. You can't get worse than that.

So, at worst, Utah will be as bad as they were last year. At best, BYU will be as good as they were last year. Every ball bounced BYU's way last year, and Utah won.

Like I said, if Kyle doesn't think he is making a bowl game this year, he had better beat BYU.

[Utah]

Van Noy and Hoffman will get drafted in a year. I don't know if we can say that with certainty about anyone on our team. A great pass-rushing LB can turn a so-so defense into a very tough defense. I hope he gets crotch rot during their bye week.

Hoffman is over-rated. Take out his New Mexico State stats and the guy is not impressive at all. Look at his BCS stats and you wonder why you even brought him up.

[Scorcho]

Hoffman is over-rated. Take out his New Mexico State stats and the guy is not impressive at all. Look at his BCS stats and you wonder why you even brought him up.

there also seems to be little question that Taysom Hill (spelling?) will be the next great QB, that's certainly premature. Taysom reminds me of last years Travis Wilson.

QB advantage - Utah

[SoCalPat]

Hoffman is over-rated. Take out his New Mexico State stats and the guy is not impressive at all. Look at his BCS stats and you wonder why you even brought him up.

This is one area about BYU we are in full agreement. Hoffman might be the most overrated player in the country. Eight of his 11 touchdowns last year came against Idaho and NMSU. The year before, eight of his 10 came against Idaho, Idaho State, Hawaii and Tulsa. I would be shocked if either of those teams finished higher than 100th in pass efficiency defense. Statistically, he'll compare with Austin Collie by career's end, but he's nowhere near being in Collie's league

[chrisrenrut]

This is one area about BYU we are in full agreement. Hoffman might be the most overrated player in the country. Eight of his 11 touchdowns last year came against Idaho and NMSU. The year before, eight of his 10 came against Idaho, Idaho State, Hawaii and Tulsa. I would be shocked if either of those teams finished higher than 100th in pass efficiency defense. Statistically, he'll compare with Austin Collie by career's end, but he's nowhere near being in Collie's league

How much of that is a product of Hoffman having the equivalent of a Pop Warner level QB throwing the ball to him? A QB whose own OC said he would throw a good percentage of wtf balls, because that is just who he is? I would love to have Hoffman on our team. Falslev was the one guy on their team that i thought was seriously overrated, at least by BYU fans.

[Utah]

How much of that is a product of Hoffman having the equivalent of a Pop Warner level QB throwing the ball to him? A QB whose own OC said he would throw a good percentage of wtf balls, because that is just who he is? I would love to have Hoffman on our team. Falslev was the one guy on their team that i thought was seriously overrated, at least by BYU fans.

howa that any different than Scott and Dres' scenario and why does that then make Hoffman better?

[chrisrenrut]

howa that any different than Scott and Dres' scenario and why does that then make Hoffman better?

Well, he led BYU in receiving his freshman, sophomore, and junior years, and he's 6'4" 215 lbs. That seems more consistent than anything Dres or Scott have done yet. But I'm going more off what I saw him do in the few games I saw of BYU play last year. I'm not saying he will have a better year than Dres or Scott, but if you are playing the percentages, you have to think he probably will.

[LA Ute]

Well, he led BYU in receiving his freshman, sophomore, and junior years, and he's 6'4" 215 lbs. That seems more consistent than anything Dres or Scott have done yet. But I'm going more off what I saw him do in the few games I saw of BYU play last year. I'm not saying he will have a better year than Dres or Scott, but if you are playing the percentages, you have to think he probably will.

I don't pay much attention to BYU players, but I'm curious: How did Hoffman do against Utah during those three years? Anyone know?

[Flystripper]

I don't pay much attention to BYU players, but I'm curious: How did Hoffman do against Utah during those three years? Anyone know?

Hoffman stats against Utah

2010 Freshman - 3 catches 22 yards 0 TD
2011 Sophomore - 8 catches 138 yards 0 TD
2012 Junior - 8 catches 120 yards 1 TD

He has done pretty well against Utah

[concerned]

Hoffman stats against Utah

2010 Freshman - 3 catches 22 yards 0 TD
2011 Sophomore - 8 catches 138 yards 0 TD
2012 Junior - 8 catches 120 yards 1 TD

He has done pretty well against Utah

I remember being quite impressed with him at the 54-10 game in the first half. The second half was such a blow out that we quit paying attention to their offense and eventually left early to avoid traffic. Everyone else had the same idea, and so we hit traffic.

[LA Ute]

Hoffman stats against Utah

2010 Freshman - 3 catches 22 yards 0 TD
2011 Sophomore - 8 catches 138 yards 0 TD
2012 Junior - 8 catches 120 yards 1 TD

He has done pretty well against Utah

That tells me a lot, thanks. I'm now worried about him.

[sancho]

That tells me a lot, thanks. I'm now worried about him.

We should be. Overrated or not, he will be in the NFL next year. That's enough. To compare him with Anderson or Scott at this point is silly. Even if his numbers came against bad teams, at least he has numbers.

[Hot Lunch]

This is one area about BYU we are in full agreement. Hoffman might be the most overrated player in the country. Eight of his 11 touchdowns last year came against Idaho and NMSU. The year before, eight of his 10 came against Idaho, Idaho State, Hawaii and Tulsa. I would be shocked if either of those teams finished higher than 100th in pass efficiency defense. Statistically, he'll compare with Austin Collie by career's end, but he's nowhere near being in Collie's league

I actually really like Hoffman. I think he is a good talent. He is not on Collie's level but the guy does have skills. He runs good routes, uses his size and has good hands. He doesn't have the speed to stretch the field to make him successful at the next level but I think he is really good college wide out. He had 8 catches for 120 yards and TD against us last year. He did have a q.b. throwing him the ball that possessed one of the worst arms in football.

[Utah]

We should be. Overrated or not, he will be in the NFL next year. That's enough. To compare him with Anderson or Scott at this point is silly. Even if his numbers came against bad teams, at least he has numbers.


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Wow. So, we should just go back to the MWC, because we will play crappy teams, but at least we will win all those games.

Preferences

[sancho]

One minor thing to point out, that you can interpret however you want, is that if you look at this objectively, taking out the rivalry aspects, based upon where Utah is, this is certainly the best scheduling contract that BYU has signed (for BYU) since BYU went independent.

I just heard that BYU signed a 1-1 deal with Cal this week. That is one of their first even BCS deals since going independent (I think Utah, UVa, and GT were the only ones?). I thought they would have a harder time with scheduling as an independent, but I must admit that things seem to be working our alright for them so far. On the other hand, they may have to reconsider the "Cal kept us out of the Pac-12 because of our religion" garbage.

From Cal's point of view, why do they do this when they know they can get 2-1's like Arizona and USC did?

[UteBeliever aka Port]

I just heard that BYU signed a 1-1 deal with Cal this week. That is one of their first even BCS deals since going independent (I think Utah, UVa, and GT were the only ones?). I thought they would have a harder time with scheduling as an independent, but I must admit that things seem to be working our alright for them so far. On the other hand, they may have to reconsider the "Cal kept us out of the Pac-12 because of our religion" garbage.

From Cal's point of view, why do they do this when they know they can get 2-1's like Arizona and USC did?

I wonder what concessions, if any, BYU made to sign Cal to a home and homes. There is very likely more to the story. As you say, Arizona got a 1-1-1 with the neutral being in the heart of the Arizona fan base.

[UBlender]

I wonder what concessions, if any, BYU made to sign Cal to a home and homes. There is very likely more to the story. As you say, Arizona got a 1-1-1 with the neutral being in the heart of the Arizona fan base.

I thought about that too. Would it shock you to hear an announcement in a year about BYU and Cal agreeing to a "neutral" site game at the 49ers stadium in, say, 2018 or 2019?

[LA Ute]

Holmoe was the head football coach at Cal once upon a time. Maybe his remaining ties there helped.

[SoCalPat]

Holmoe was the head football coach at Cal once upon a time. Maybe his remaining ties there helped.

And led them to a 1-11 season his final year there and got the program put on probation. I'm just sayin' ...

[LA Ute]

And led them to a 1-11 season his final year there and got the program put on probation. I'm just sayin' ...

Then again, maybe not. Maybe it was the thousands of derrières BYU will put in Cal's stadium that sealed the deal. Everyone knows that BYU's huge national following always turns out for their away games.