I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

[Solon]

What I have personally seen happen is that members who are BYU alums, fans, even former players, talk to the missionaries and put them in touch with the coaches. This is especially effective when the person doing the encouraging is a high-level ecclesiastical officer. The missionaries reach out to the BYU coaches, who happily take their calls and stay in touch with them. It's probably totally legal. It just bugs me, which, as I noted above, is my constitutional right.

I am always going to side with the players in these types of issues. The coaches can change schools without consequences. Why can't the players? If this kid was some kind of chemistry whiz and wanted to transfer to a school with a better chemistry program, people would cheer his ambition, including the chemistry faculty at the "losing" school.

Good programs wish players well when they leave for a better situation (or more playing-time, or whatever). When fans and coaches and administrators get upset over these kinds of decisions, it just shows that a program has bad self-esteem. If byu wants to recruit missionaries, I'm fine with it. That's their thing - as long as the kid is making the decision. Coaches or administrators who prevent transfers (invoking APR concerns or "development investment") are not prioritizing the well-being of the athlete.


P.S. I will vouch for tooblue's family and the loving use of the term "d*p-sh*t. The first time I ever met his mother, she was swearing like a sailor at a malfunctioning toaster.

[Scratch]

Please ... no one is letting anything happen, implying they are complicit in wrong doing. There is no wrong doing. It's the athlete on a mission who initiates the contact.


LOL, and you accuse us of misrepresentations. I'm sure there are probably instances where this is true, and the athlete initiated contact, but I also know there are instances where Bronco and Kalani initiated contact with missionaries with whom they had no preexisting relationship. I've seen the emails, and they were to 2 players who had zero interest in BYU and who certainly did not initiate contact.

[tooblue]

LOL, and you accuse us of misrepresentations. I'm sure there are probably instances where this is true, and the athlete initiated contact, but I also know there are instances where Bronco and Kalani initiated contact with missionaries with whom they had no preexisting relationship. I've seen the emails, and they were to 2 players who had zero interest in BYU and who certainly did not initiate contact.

Ya ya, and I bet your wife was the one to make the first move ;-)

[tooblue]

I am always going to side with the players in these types of issues. The coaches can change schools without consequences. Why can't the players? If this kid was some kind of chemistry whiz and wanted to transfer to a school with a better chemistry program, people would cheer his ambition, including the chemistry faculty at the "losing" school.

Good programs wish players well when they leave for a better situation (or more playing-time, or whatever). When fans and coaches and administrators get upset over these kinds of decisions, it just shows that a program has bad self-esteem. If byu wants to recruit missionaries, I'm fine with it. That's their thing - as long as the kid is making the decision. Coaches or administrators who prevent transfers (invoking APR concerns or "development investment") are not prioritizing the well-being of the athlete.


P.S. I will vouch for tooblue's family and the loving use of the term "d*p-sh*t. The first time I ever met his mother, she was swearing like a sailor at a malfunctioning toaster.

Calling Mormon Red Death a malfunctioning toaster is just mean and hurtful. Uncalled for Solon!

[Brian]

Ah, couldn't get in?

Dude, low blow!!
A bag of rocks can get accepted to the BYU-I.

[sancho]

I am always going to side with the players in these types of issues. The coaches can change schools without consequences. Why can't the players? If this kid was some kind of chemistry whiz and wanted to transfer to a school with a better chemistry program, people would cheer his ambition, including the chemistry faculty at the "losing" school.


Solon is right as usual. Where ya been?

Again, I would only add that a student should have to sit out a year after a transfer, and no one should be allowed to transfer to a future opponent. This is not chemistry, and there needs to be ways to keep some structure in the sport.

[tooblue]

Dude, low blow!!
A bag of rocks can get accepted to the BYU-I.

A bag of rocks and any East High grad, is what you meant to say, right Brian?

[LA Ute]

I do love how defensive BYU fans get about this subject. Even so, I'm ready to move on. I need to remind myself, as Bronco always said, that BYU doesn't recruit players; players recruit BYU.

[sancho]

I do love how defensive BYU fans get about this subject. Even so, I'm ready to move on. I need to remind myself, as Bronco always said, that BYU doesn't recruit players; players recruit BYU.

This and the fact that having returned missionaries can be a benefit are the two topics guaranteed to get a strong reaction out of Provo fans.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I do love how defensive BYU fans get about this subject. Even so, I'm ready to move on. I need to remind myself, as Bronco always said, that BYU doesn't recruit players; players recruit BYU."BYU doesn't recruit missionaries. They outsource that to mission presidents and local priesthood leaders..."

[Applejack]

My boys listened to the Prophet's counsel to study close to home. I went to art school ... I wanted to draw nude models that were actually nude :cool:

The prophet is telling people to go to art school now? Man, things have changed.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

We are not ready for Mo Langi.

898229908148600832

[Scratch]

Big Mo or Slow-Mo?

[U-Ute]

TL;DW;

Did he eventually get to the ball?

[mUUser]

TL;DW;

Did he eventually get to the ball?

Is he in the two deep or is he a "project?"

[Utah]

If he's in the two deep BYU might not go bowling.

He's a sideshow. I don't even know if he is project level yet.

[Scratch]

Bernard wants to come to Utah, but says BYU won't let him.

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/byu-cougars/2017/08/19/brother-francis-bernard-wants-to-leave-byu-for-utah-but-cougars-wont-let-him/

Edit: The URL says BYU won't let him transfer, but the article never really says that, just that he wants to transfer.
(http://www.sltrib.com/sports/byu-cougars/2017/08/19/brother-francis-bernard-wants-to-leave-byu-for-utah-but-cougars-wont-let-him/)

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Bernard wants to come to Utah, but says BYU won't let him.

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/byu-cougars/2017/08/19/brother-francis-bernard-wants-to-leave-byu-for-utah-but-cougars-wont-let-him/

Weird story. Funny how they all got indignant about Wells and the USU TE that wants to transfer to BYU. I'm sure they'll have plenty of justification on how this situation is different.


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[Diehard Ute]

Weird story. Funny how they all got indignant about Wells and the USU TE that wants to transfer to BYU. I'm sure they'll have plenty of justification on how this situation is different.


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Sitake is on record saying he won't block a transfer.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170819/e45f8610cbbc59d05081d2b955b5c5ec.png

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=5572654&itype=CMSID




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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Sitake is on record saying he won't block a transfer.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170819/e45f8610cbbc59d05081d2b955b5c5ec.png

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=5572654&itype=CMSID




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I'm well aware of the quote, which is what makes the whole situation and comparison extra interesting.

I don't know the details of the story, but apparently his brother post to Twitter yesterday about the system being rigged and it seemed to get positive support from several current players. Does Kalani have the beginnings of a mutiny on his hands?!


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[Scorcho]

is Francis Bernard any good? I have no idea. I've heard his name, but that's about it.

[UBlender]

is Francis Bernard any good? I have no idea. I've heard his name, but that's about it.

The consensus seems to be that he's pretty good. I'm not intimately familiar with much of BYU's roster but I believe he started for them last year and I know he made a pretty athletic INT against Utah last year. I bet this whole thing blows over and he stays at BYU but if fortune did have him end up at Utah I'd think he could compete for a starting job after he sitting out a year.

[Utah]

is Francis Bernard any good? I have no idea. I've heard his name, but that's about it.

He wouldn't start for us this year, but he'd compete next year for playing time.

[Applejack]

He wouldn't start for us this year, but he'd compete next year for playing time.

Compete for playing time next year? He'd be the best we have returning at lb, and it's not close.

[UTEopia]

Compete for playing time next year? He'd be the best we have returning at lb, and it's not close.

I really don't watch BYU enough to know much about him. I know he has good stats, but is he an athletic linebacker or a run stuffer?

[sancho]

I really don't watch BYU enough to know much about him. I know he has good stats, but is he an athletic linebacker or a run stuffer?

I know nothing about him, but I welcome all linebackers. I'd take safeties this year, too.

[UtahsMrSports]

Harmon wrote a column about him that had he laughing. He pumped him up to the point that you would think he's LT reincarnated. Then he's like...."well, his run support isn't great and his pass coverage needs work but....."

[Nice Marmot]

Any updates on Bernard's decision? A few days ago it sounded like a done deal but now I'm starting to think he may stay at byu.

[Scratch]

Any updates on Bernard's decision? A few days ago it sounded like a done deal but now I'm starting to think he may stay at byu.

Word on the street is that Holmoe blocked the transfer and is forcing him to stay at BYU or pay his way at Utah. Holmoe is playing bad cop so that Sitake can claim he was cool with it.

[sancho]

Word on the street is that Holmoe blocked the transfer and is forcing him to stay at BYU or pay his way at Utah. Holmoe is playing bad cop so that Sitake can claim he was cool with it.

Usually, once this type of thing gets public, everyone in the media starts shaming the blocking institution until it caves. Of course, it has to start local, and I'm not sure anyone in the local press is comfortable going against BYU.

Even though it would benefit us here, I still think transfers should be free anywhere except to a team on a future schedule.

[Utah]

BYU only needs to block him until Sept 1 I think and then he loses more time if he leaves.

[sancho]

BYU only needs to block him until Sept 1 I think and then he loses more time if he leaves.

I'm sure they'll let him go. It's such a charitable, forgiving place.

[UTEopia]

BYU only needs to block him until Sept 1 I think and then he loses more time if he leaves.

They cant block him from leaving and going anywhere he wants. They can only not release him and prevent him from being on scholarship for 1 year.

[Utah]

True, but he'd have to pay his own way. If they release him, he can get on scholarship. I think after Sept 1, no scholarship.

I think.

[sancho]

True, but he'd have to pay his own way. If they release him, he can get on scholarship. I think after Sept 1, no scholarship.

I think.

I wish all athletes could pay tuition for one year. Maybe then they would realize they are getting paid to play.

[concerned]

So in other words the Y is doing exactly what USU did. That kid enrolled at the Y, but cant get a scholie. The situations are completely different, and i am an idiot because i cant see it, I know.

I am guessing that if Bernard leaves before Sept. 1, then this counts as his red shirt year, and he can play next year. If after Sept 1, then then he has to sit out next year. I am guessing it is the same situation as the Alabama qb who left in Sept. last year to play at ASU this year, but I am guessing.

[Utah]

I think you're spot on. I don't know why/how Kalani has such a shiny reputation but the guy is a snake.

He screwed over players at Utah, he did it at OSU and he's doing it now. And yet everyone loves him.

That's talent right there.

[tooblue]

I think you're spot on. I don't know why/how Kalani has such a shiny reputation but the guy is a snake.

He screwed over players at Utah, he did it at OSU and he's doing it now. And yet everyone loves him.

That's talent right there.

You've resorted to borderline slander now? That's pathetic.

So far, the only person who has not said anything is Francis Bernard. So, you are dealing with supposition, opinion and guess work until he chooses to speak for himself.

[Green Monstah]

FB has been at practice all week, FWIW. If he wants to be a Ute, he'll be a Ute.

[Nice Marmot]

FB has been at practice all week, FWIW. If he wants to be a Ute, he'll be a Ute.

At Utah's practice or at byu's practice?

[Green Monstah]

BYU's.

[LA Ute]

I think too much time and energy are devoted to these Utah-BYU transfer issues. Although I do hope that any kid who transfers from Utah to any opponent has a miserable performance when he plays the Utes.

[U-Ute]

I think too much time and energy are devoted to these Utah-BYU transfer issues. Although I do hope that any kid who transfers from Utah to any opponent has a miserable performance when he plays the Utes.

I hope he has a great game, but loses.

[Scorcho]

I think too much time and energy are devoted to these Utah-BYU transfer issues. Although I do hope that any kid who transfers from Utah to any opponent has a miserable performance when he plays the Utes.

I can't recall the last kid that transferred from BYU to Utah in any sport. It doesn't happen too often.

It could be the tar and feathering?

[sancho]

I can't recall the last kid that transferred from BYU to Utah in any sport. It doesn't happen too often.

It could be the tar and feathering?

Jake Murphy?

[sancho]

I think too much time and energy are devoted to these Utah-BYU transfer issues. Although I do hope that any kid who transfers from Utah to any opponent has a miserable performance when he plays the Utes.

That's too generous. I hope players that transfer away from Utah fail in every game, blow it in key moments for their new teams, and end up hopeless and penniless in the street.

[LA Ute]

Jake Murphy?

Wasn't he a missionary commit to BYU who flipped, but never was on the team at BYU?

[Utah]

And didn't Bronco want him to gray shirt?

[U-Ute]

I figured Jake Heaps was on Utah's team in 2011.

:saythat:

[U-Ute]

We can't have this thread buried on page 2.

Wasn't this the first sign of the second coming or something?

BYU to sell caffeinated soda on campus (http://fox13now.com/2017/09/21/byu-to-sell-caffeinated-sodas-on-campus)

In a side note: Firefox doesn't think 'caffeinated' is a real word.

[sancho]

We can't have this thread buried on page 2.

Wasn't this the first sign of the second coming or something?

BYU to sell caffeinated soda on campus (http://fox13now.com/2017/09/21/byu-to-sell-caffeinated-sodas-on-campus)

In a side note: Firefox doesn't think 'caffeinated' is a real world.

Can't believe the caffeine curtain fell before the beard curtain. Stay strong, beardless Provo losers! Your day will come!

[concerned]

so what the heck is the difference between coke (diet or regular) and coffee, other than the proven health benefits of coffee and health detriments of coke?

[Scorcho]

so what the heck is the difference between coke (diet or regular) and coffee, other than the proven health benefits of coffee and health detriments of coke?

this seems like its in Tooblue's wheelhouse or igloo, he has that secular training that many of us missed out on.

[Scratch]

This is going to have a huge negative financial effect on gas stations and convenience stores that circle BYU's campus.

[concerned]

This is going to have a huge negative financial effect on gas stations and convenience stores that circle BYU's campus.

I took my daughter on the church Colorado River rafting trip this summer. Campground about 20 miles upriver from Moab. Every night, two car loads of parents would drive into town to get the biggest size diet caffeinated soda at the c store.

[sancho]

so what the heck is the difference between coke (diet or regular) and coffee, other than the proven health benefits of coffee and health detriments of coke?

No idea, but be careful with the word "proven" when it comes to nutritional science. I don't doubt that there are health benefits to coffee (it's a plant, after all), but there are certainly negative side effects as well. We can't even nail down costs/benefits for medicines that are the focus of well-funded longitudinal studies. Nutrition is a difficult science.

Anyway, I think everyone agrees that soda doesn't come with many health benefits. My Dad has believed in the good luck power of a halftime Coke for decades. I always drink a halftime coke for good luck, and that's pretty much the only soda I drink.

[mUUser]

so what the heck is the difference between coke (diet or regular) and coffee, other than the proven health benefits of coffee and health detriments of coke?


Oh boy, here we go........:snack: (ironic that he's drinking a soda--probably caffeinated-- isn't it?)

[concerned]

Denying the health benefits of coffee is like denying man made climate change. You can believe what you want.

[U-Ute]

so what the heck is the difference between coke (diet or regular) and coffee, other than the proven health benefits of coffee and health detriments of coke?

My anecdotal belief based on the fact I grew up here:

The D&C says "no hot drinks". People knew that meant to be coffees and teas. The reason is the whole "your body is a temple" sort of thing. People extrapolated that since caffeine is the primary ingredient in both coffee and tea, it was the reason for the avoidance.

So my sense is the ban is more a product of urban legend and the ecclesiastical race between the Jonses than the church. I don't ever remember the church proper (QoT or prophet) making a decree that caffeinated sodas were to be avoided.

[Diehard Ute]

Mmmm coffee.


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[U-Ute]

We have a winner.

2259

[Two Utes]

Denying the health benefits of coffee is like denying man made climate change. You can believe what you want.


You're an anti-mormon.

[concerned]

Even cougarboard acknowledges the obvious.

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=18482758

[Scorcho]

Even cougarboard acknowledges the obvious.

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=18482758

or they just desperately want to cross midfield

:cool:

[Rocker Ute]

My anecdotal belief based on the fact I grew up here:

The D&C says "no hot drinks". People knew that meant to be coffees and teas. The reason is the whole "your body is a temple" sort of thing. People extrapolated that since caffeine is the primary ingredient in both coffee and tea, it was the reason for the avoidance.

So my sense is the ban is more a product of urban legend and the ecclesiastical race between the Jonses than the church. I don't ever remember the church proper (QoT or prophet) making a decree that caffeinated sodas were to be avoided.

I think you nailed it on the head. There is a story of former church president David O McKay being at a play and asking for a drink. The person returned apologetically and said to him, "I'm sorry they only have cups with the coke logo on it." McKay responded with, "I don't care if there is Coke on the cup as long as there is Coke in the cup..."

The caffeine ban as far as church doctrine has never existed.


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[sancho]

Denying the health benefits of coffee is like denying man made climate change. You can believe what you want.

I guess I'm generally a bit skeptical of nutrition research, but I admit to having read nothing about coffee. I would not be surprised to find out that all the claimed benefits are real, but I also wouldn't be surprised to find that some of them have been overstated.

I don't know if I'm ready to elevate caffeine onto the pedestal with marijuana as the only substances known to man with absolutely no negative side effects.

[tooblue]

Denying the health benefits of coffee is like denying man made climate change. You can believe what you want.

Many things are good for you, in moderation. Living in the land of coffee and doughnuts, there is no such thing as moderation.

[chrisrenrut]

Many things are good for you, in moderation. Living in the land of coffee and doughnuts, there is no such thing as moderation.

Tim Horton's! Mmmmm!

[tooblue]

Tim Horton's! Mmmmm!

"You've always got time for Tim Horton's"

[hostile]

"You've always got time for Tim Horton's"
Truth.

[Applejack]

Concerned is right. The stats on life expectancy for coffee drinkers is higher than for non-coffee drinkers. Too bad I don't like the stuff.

[sancho]

Concerned is right. The stats on life expectancy for coffee drinkers is higher than for non-coffee drinkers. Too bad I don't like the stuff.

Well, I think it's delicious. Or, at least it smells delicious.

[LA Ute]

All I know is that President Monson loves him some Dr. Pepper. I am following the prophet.

[concerned]

All I know is that President Monson loves him some Dr. Pepper. I am following the prophet.

At Pres. Monson's age, you are entitled to drink whatever you want.

[tooblue]

Then there's this:

"You don’t see hazard ratios mentioned a lot in superfood-type stories for a few reasons. One is laziness, but the more important issue is that hazard ratios often show how little impact the superfood actually had on study subjects. I can tell you with confidence that coffee lowers your risk of death. It’s even statistically significant! It’s less impressive if I say that the hazard ratio for men was 0.97, and the confidence interval was 0.96-0.98. Technically that interval is below 1.0, so technically I can say that coffee decreases your risk of death. It just might be by only two percent."

http://www.popsci.com/coffee-drinkers-live-longer#page-2

So, really, this whole coffee helps people live longer thing is like that supposed "gap" y'all are so fond of talking about :p

[Applejack]

So, really, this whole coffee helps people live longer thing is like that supposed "gap" y'all are so fond of talking about :p

See, even toolblue agrees: drinking coffee means you live 7 years longer!

[tooblue]

See, even toolblue agrees: drinking coffee means you live 7 years longer!

There's always the luck factor to consider.

[Rocker Ute]

My next door neighbors really live the word of wisdom, like the whole thing. They eat meat sparingly, etc. and even maintain a garden on their property that supplies their food for most of the year. She claims she goes to the store about once a month for odds and ends. They are both retired and the model of health. She will kindly point out how bad sugar, fast foods, red meat and everything else is for you. I am pretty sure that if a gun was held to her head and she was ordered to drink a soda or die, she’d take her chances with the bullet.

Heck, they even have a solar oven that they frequently cook in on sunny days. Sometimes they ride a tandem bicycle to get around.

They will survive the apocalypse.

You can imagine what it must be like to live next to us, frequent BBQ-ers (not to mention smoking briskets, turkey, ribs, etc.) while my kids sit out on the swing set eating double-decker ice cream cones.

But despite them living both the letter and the spirit of the law of health they will be the first to point out that they do it for the spiritual reasons.

They are great neighbors, lest I appear to be mocking them. They’ve got it figured out in spectacular fashion in my opinion. Plus they share their garden spoils with us.


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[Scorcho]

My next door neighbors really live the word of wisdom, like the whole thing. They eat meat sparingly, etc. and even maintain a garden on their property that supplies their food for most of the year. She claims she goes to the store about once a month for odds and ends. They are both retired and the model of health. She will kindly point out how bad sugar, fast foods, red meat and everything else is for you. I am pretty sure that if a gun was held to her head and she was ordered to drink a soda or die, she’d take her chances with the bullet.

Heck, they even have a solar oven that they frequently cook in on sunny days. Sometimes they ride a tandem bicycle to get around.

They will survive the apocalypse.

You can imagine what it must be like to live next to us, frequent BBQ-ers (not to mention smoking briskets, turkey, ribs, etc.) while my kids sit out on the swing set eating double-decker ice cream cones.

But despite them living both the letter and the spirit of the law of health they will be the first to point out that they do it for the spiritual reasons.

They are great neighbors, lest I appear to be mocking them. They’ve got it figured out in spectacular fashion in my opinion. Plus they share their garden spoils with us.


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can I get their address? I'd like to send them over a pizza and some crazy bread :)

[NorthwestUteFan]

I had neighbors like that. They lived the letter of the law on 'Wheat is for man...', right up to the point that their teenaged daughter with celiac disease had her hair fall out in clumps and nearly shed her entire gut lining.

[Utah]

My anecdotal belief based on the fact I grew up here:

The D&C says "no hot drinks". People knew that meant to be coffees and teas. The reason is the whole "your body is a temple" sort of thing. People extrapolated that since caffeine is the primary ingredient in both coffee and tea, it was the reason for the avoidance.

So my sense is the ban is more a product of urban legend and the ecclesiastical race between the Jonses than the church. I don't ever remember the church proper (QoT or prophet) making a decree that caffeinated sodas were to be avoided.

This is my problem with the word of wisdom. It's all over the place and has evolved over time to fit our liking. It's the definition of "the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture."

V2: "not by commandment or constraint"

Yet, now it's a commandment.

Hot drinks? So no coffee and tea, yet hot chocolate is ok? Oh, and herbal tea is ok, but iced tea is naughty? But it's not hot!

12: "Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;"

Now, we all know this isn't true. 80% of every meal should be meat. Heck, I've sat next to Holland at an all you can eat meat fest. Delicious.

V17: "barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain."

Wait!!!! Beer is ok?!?!

What we believe and what was given to Smith are two totally different things.

The definition of the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.

[chrisrenrut]

This is my problem with the word of wisdom. It's all over the place and has evolved over time to fit our liking. It's the definition of "the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture."

V2: "not by commandment or constraint"

Yet, now it's a commandment.

Hot drinks? So no coffee and tea, yet hot chocolate is ok? Oh, and herbal tea is ok, but iced tea is naughty? But it's not hot!

12: "Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;"

Now, we all know this isn't true. 80% of every meal should be meat. Heck, I've sat next to Holland at an all you can eat meat fest. Delicious.

V17: "barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain."

Wait!!!! Beer is ok?!?!

What we believe and what was given to Smith are two totally different things.

The definition of the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.

Completely agree. It also doesn't say anything about drugs, like marijuana or opiods. But everyone kind of assumes it's covered there.

[UtahsMrSports]

This is my problem with the word of wisdom. It's all over the place and has evolved over time to fit our liking. It's the definition of "the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture."

V2: "not by commandment or constraint"

Yet, now it's a commandment.

Hot drinks? So no coffee and tea, yet hot chocolate is ok? Oh, and herbal tea is ok, but iced tea is naughty? But it's not hot!

12: "Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;"

Now, we all know this isn't true. 80% of every meal should be meat. Heck, I've sat next to Holland at an all you can eat meat fest. Delicious.

V17: "barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain."

Wait!!!! Beer is ok?!?!

What we believe and what was given to Smith are two totally different things.

The definition of the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.

Isn't the perspective of the LDS that if a more modern prophet has shed light on the matter that it overrides what Joseph had to say on the matter?

[UtahsMrSports]

This discussion reminds me of a guy I met on my mission. He was a war vet from the Vietnam era and he had BAD PTSD. He was fine most of the time, but when he went off the rails........oh man.........he would ride out on his row boat out into the middle of a lake and would howl at the moon and all kinds of nutty stuff.

Anyway, he only came to church once in the 9 months I was there in that area. When he showed up he was dressed up as an astronaut. He came in during sunday school and demanded to speak with the bishop immediately. We stayed close by as the bishop took him in to his office. He then proceeded to yell about how the ward wasn't obeying the word of wisdom because every time he came to a ward party or church all he saw was a bunch of fat cows walking around and all he saw served at the parties was piles of meat.

[Utah]

Isn't the perspective of the LDS that if a more modern prophet has shed light on the matter that it overrides what Joseph had to say on the matter?

Yes. The current prophet has final say. BUT, they've never come out and said. There is no new, "thus saith the LORD..."

If the D&C has changed, shouldn't there be a new section stating the change?

So, since there is no new revelation, the word of wisdom rules right?

The same scripture that says wine is ok, beer is great and meat is bad? Oh, and says it's not a commandment.

The church does not act like a church that has current revelation.

It's become philosophies of men mingles with scripture.

[Scratch]

Yes. The current prophet has final say. BUT, they've never come out and said. There is no new, "thus saith the LORD..."

If the D&C has changed, shouldn't there be a new section stating the change?

So, since there is no new revelation, the word of wisdom rules right?

The same scripture that says wine is ok, beer is great and meat is bad? Oh, and says it's not a commandment.

The church does not act like a church that has current revelation.

It's become philosophies of men mingles with scripture.

The WoW isn't "doctrine," at least not how I understand that term. The doctrine is the idea that our bodies are sacred, we need to respect them and take care of them, and learn to master our bodies with our spirits. As with lots of "doctrines," the way our leaders (or the Lord) ask us to apply those doctrines in our times and circumstances may change. The WoW is essentially guidance on some ways to do that (and, as many have noted in this thread, that is exactly what section 89 says; it's essentially guidance). Over the years, leaders have received additional, ongoing revelation about certain dietary issues. It isn't really changing anything in the D&C, it's consistent with it but just takes it to the next level and essentially makes it a commandment. This isn't really surprising on several levels; people were given time to become accustomed to these standards before they were expected to abandon them completely (and even after certain aspects of the WoW went from advice to commandment, leaders were usually pretty lenient).

[Applejack]

There's always the luck factor to consider.

Yes. There is.

The odds of two evenly matched teams squaring off 7 straight times with the good guys winning all 7 is .007 percent. (1/2)^7, Sancho can check my math.

[tooblue]

Yes. There is.

The odds of two evenly matched teams squaring off 7 straight times with the good guys winning all 7 is .007 percent. (1/2)^7, Sancho can check my math.

So, you admit the two teams are evenly matched and that it is truly unusual one team has prevailed seven times despite the odds ... by the way, that's how luck works ;-)

[Rocker Ute]

I had neighbors like that. They lived the letter of the law on 'Wheat is for man...', right up to the point that their teenaged daughter with celiac disease had her hair fall out in clumps and nearly shed her entire gut lining.

They are nothing like that. Just live healthily.

[LA Ute]

They are nothing like that. Just live healthily.

I believe in moderation in all things. Even moderation.

[Utah]

The WoW isn't "doctrine," at least not how I understand that term. The doctrine is the idea that our bodies are sacred, we need to respect them and take care of them, and learn to master our bodies with our spirits. As with lots of "doctrines," the way our leaders (or the Lord) ask us to apply those doctrines in our times and circumstances may change. The WoW is essentially guidance on some ways to do that (and, as many have noted in this thread, that is exactly what section 89 says; it's essentially guidance). Over the years, leaders have received additional, ongoing revelation about certain dietary issues. It isn't really changing anything in the D&C, it's consistent with it but just takes it to the next level and essentially makes it a commandment. This isn't really surprising on several levels; people were given time to become accustomed to these standards before they were expected to abandon them completely (and even after certain aspects of the WoW went from advice to commandment, leaders were usually pretty lenient).

So, even though it's says it's not a commandment you must live it to enter the temple.

Seems like a commandment to me.

Same with beer and meat.

What it says and what we do are almost opposites.

[Rocker Ute]

I gotta believe it is just this kind of discussion that forced church leaders to spell it out for people. If it was written on a stone tablet Moses would have smashed it by now.


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[Utah]

I gotta believe it is just this kind of discussion that forced church leaders to spell it out for people. If it was written on a stone tablet Moses would have smashed it by now.


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Or a struggling church in an era of pre-prohibition that bans beer to boost converts.

I agree it shouldn't need to be spelled out.

I also think we've become a church of Pharisees and sadducees. It's more important to jump through hoops and avoid "the appearance of evil" than to actually be good and do good.

[Utah]

It's like keeping the sabbath holy. Each of us are different. There are some that probably shouldn't play board games because they become angry and drive away the spirit.

There are others that have wonderful family experiences playing games on Sunday that strengthen bonds and grow closer to each other and closer to God through those experiences.

There shouldn't be a list of dos and donts.

Use your brain. Use the spirit.

Sadly, we've become a nation where we do neither and do so proudly.

Anyhow, this is has blown out of the sports discussion and into something else.

I've made my stance clear, I'll bow out now.

[Ma'ake]

Trying times in Provo. They're in football hell, of course, but signs everywhere indicate it's actually worse than that.

The coach they ran off is enjoying great success at a lowly ACC program, and pounded Boise State - in Boise! - something Elder Mendenhall never accomplished at BYU. He has athletes they couldn't dream about recruiting at BYU, they have a strong armed QB whose dad is a tattoo artist, and Bronco dropped multiple F-Bombs during the game.

"It's surreal to be back here, with different guys, and.... guys are having fun".

And now this heresy about caffeinated drinks at BYU.

What is real anymore? What is real?

[Scratch]

So, even though it's says it's not a commandment you must live it to enter the temple.

Seems like a commandment to me.

Same with beer and meat.

What it says and what we do are almost opposites.

Never said it isn't a commandment, it most definitely is a commandment. Just said it isn't doctrine, just the modern application of doctrine (in the form of a commandment).

Actually, to be clear, section 89 is not a commandment. What came later was the commandment.

[LA Ute]

Never said it isn't a commandment, it most definitely is a commandment. Just said it isn't doctrine, just the modern application of doctrine (in the form of a commandment).

Actually, to be clear, section 89 is not a commandment. What came later was the commandment.

The dietary laws for ancient Israel are a good example. They were appropriate for the times, but are no longer.

[UTEopia]

My wife just read this thread while I ate key lime pie and she says we all need to get a life.

[sancho]

My wife just read this thread while I ate key lime pie and she says we all need to get a life.

If she read it, she is just as guilty.

[NorthwestUteFan]

My wife just read this thread while I ate key lime pie and she says we all need to get a life.She is correct. This thread should be abandoned until November 2018.

[LA Ute]

My wife just read this thread while I ate key lime pie and she says we all need to get a life.

My wife used to tell me that. I've worn her down over the years and she has given up on trying to save me from Utah message boards. I keep telling her it is my only vice and there are so many others that are much worse. I think she's bought that.

[U-Ute]

She is correct. This thread should be abandoned until November 2018.

vJR8G4BaG5Y6A



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mUUser]

Trying times in Provo. They're in football hell, of course, but signs everywhere indicate it's actually worse than that.......

The question facing Utah fans is whether Sitake or Anderson will be our next DC. We'll need one as we send Scalley off to Ohio State for additional seasoning, and to determine whether he's HC material or not. :)

[concerned]

Saw a tweet this weekend (PK I think) saying Bronco will be a prime contender if either UA or ASU open up. Who would have ever thought that it would be Bronco and maybe not Kalani?

[mUUser]

Saw a tweet this weekend (PK I think) saying Bronco will be a prime contender if either UA or ASU open up. Who would have ever thought that it would be Bronco and maybe not Kalani?


Guy is a little weird, but who isn't in their own way -- but the dude can coach, no doubt. How hilarious would it be if he was on Utah's short list post :kyle: era....that'd freak both Utenation and zoobville out. Worlds colliding. :bomb:

[sancho]

Guy is a little weird, but who isn't in their own way -- but the dude can coach, no doubt. How hilarious would it be if he was on Utah's short list post :kyle: era....that'd freak both Utenation and zoobville out. Worlds colliding. :bomb:

No thanks.

It's been a long time since we've seen any dramatic "dude can coach, no doubt" evidence. Maybe this season will provide something. I'm not ready to count the BSU win yet.

It would be great news for us if UA or ASU hired Bronco. Kyle has always owned him in head-to-head matchups.

[mUUser]

No thanks......


Yeah me too.

[Sullyute]

Guy is a little weird, but who isn't in their own way -- but the dude can coach, no doubt. How hilarious would it be if he was on Utah's short list post :kyle: era....that'd freak both Utenation and zoobville out. Worlds colliding. :bomb:

I don't want him either, but agree it would be hilarious for Chris to troll the whole Wasatch Front at once by putting Bronco on the list.

[Utah]

I think Bronco is the perfect G5 coach. Not the greatest recruiter but an amazing coach.

He can take a lackluster class and coach the heck out of them. Defensively he is very good.

He and Whitt are a lot alike in that respect.

The difference so far is that Whitt's recruiting has finally turned the corner (hopefully) and we will start to have consistent top 25 classes.

Bronco does have a top 25 class at BYU, but he hasn't done it consistently.

It looks like a 25-35 class will become Whitt's norm.

[concerned]

somebody posted this as play at home bingo. I got a laugh out of it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKwzwKlV4AES3DT.jpg:large

[Scratch]

somebody posted this as play at home bingo. I got a laugh out of it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKwzwKlV4AES3DT.jpg:large

Good to see they're keeping up the bingo tradition of having a free square in the middle.

[tooblue]

Exhibit A: Sunia Tauteoli

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20653139 (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20653139)

Exhibit B: Marquise Blair

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20789468

[Rocker Ute]

Exhibit A: Sunia Tauteoli

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20653139 (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20653139)

Exhibit B: Marquise Blair

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20789468

Are you hoping we’ll defend that they targeted like we are being persecuted for our righteousness?


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[U-Ute]

Exhibit A: Sunia Tauteoli

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20653139 (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20653139)

Exhibit B: Marquise Blair

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20789468

Are you getting the Utah games now where you live?

[LA Ute]

Are you getting the Utah games now where you live?

Someone caught a shot of tooblue at his weekend job:

http://www.utahby5.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2272&stc=1

[tooblue]

Are you hoping we’ll defend that they targeted like we are being persecuted for our righteousness?


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Just waiting for Exhibit C, D, E, F ...

[U-Ute]

I have to give credit where credit is due.

916086585904439296

916087081788567552

916102741398765568

[LA Ute]

I have to give credit where credit is due.

916086585904439296

916087081788567552

916102741398765568

Good for him. He'll have a happier life if he can find a way to have a longer fuse.

[Two Utes]

I have to give credit where credit is due.

916086585904439296

916087081788567552

916102741398765568

The fact that it took him that long to apologize is ridiculous. I really have some big time issues with him and Haws and the way they behave on the court. Haws begs for calls as if he is a star who deserves star treatment. He rarely plays good fundamental defense and instead loops under screens, takes plays off, takes stupid chances for steals that put him out of position and generally plays lackadasical so he can conserve energy for his offensive game. He simply doesn't have the physical skills to do those things, but Rose lets him do it anyway. Emery does many of the same things and both of them continually jack up really bad shots on offense.

I read an article in the D News that quoted Haws as saying he thought they would have more space on the court offensively now that Mika is gone. A you f'ing kidding me? Mika was the reason they had any space on the court.

Glad Emery is finally starting to grow up. But their attitude and style on the court is an abomination regradless. I've never hated a BYU team more.

[U-Ute]

The fact that it took him that long to apologize is ridiculous. I really have some big time issues with him and haws and the way they behave on the court. Haws begs for calls as if he is a star who deserves star treatment. He rarely plays good fundamental defense and instead loops under screens takes plays off, takes stupid chances for steals that put him out of position and generally plays lackadasical so he can conserve energy for his offensive game. he doesn't have the physical skills to do those things. Emery does some of the same things and both of them continually jack up really bad shots on offense. I read an article in the D News that quoted haws as saying he thought they would have more space on the court offensively now that Mika is gone. Mika was the only reason they had any space on the court.

Glad Emery is finally starting to grow up. but their attitude and style on the court is an abomination. I'e neve rliked a BYU team worse.

I agree that it was way overdue. But better late than never and maybe there is a glimmer of hope that his sense of entitlement is being tamped by maturity.

BTW, I still think he's a punk. But I have to give him credit for owning up to what he did.

[LA Ute]

I agree that it was way overdue. But better late than never and maybe there is a glimmer of hope that his sense of entitlement is being tamped by maturity.

BTW, I still think he's a punk. But I have to give him credit for owning up to what he did.

I am just glad to see some growth. It takes some men longer than others. I know 60+ year-old men who still haven't grown up. In 20 years Nick will just be a guy who used to play basketball. If he can't learn to control his temper he'll also be a guy with lots of problems in his life.

[Scorcho]

I am just glad to see some growth. It takes some men longer than others. I know 60+ year-old men who still haven't grown up. In 20 years Nick will just be a guy who used to play basketball. If he can't learn to control his temper he'll also be a guy with lots of problems in his life.

this subtle animosity between you and Seattle needs to stop ;)

[mUUser]

Good for him. He'll have a happier life if he can find a way to have a longer fuse.


This is my single greatest worry about my girls finding the right guy. Bad tempers, especially those with a short fuse to go along with it, scare me to death. I can accept a long list of shortcomings as nobody is perfect (heaven knows I have many), but, a bad temper (along with infidelity) is not one of them.


The fact that it took him that long to apologize is ridiculous. I really have some big time issues with him and Haws and the way they behave on the court.....


I don't get it. Why not accept the apology until he proves otherwise? Those offended did.

[LA Ute]

this subtle animosity between you and Seattle needs to stop ;)

Seattle is all grown up. He's kind of a stick in the mud, to tell the truth.

[Two Utes]

This is my single greatest worry about my girls finding the right guy. Bad tempers, especially those with a short fuse to go along with it, scare me to death. I can accept a long list of shortcomings as nobody is perfect (heaven knows I have many), but, a bad temper (along with infidelity) is not one of them.





I don't get it. Why not accept the apology until he proves otherwise? Those offended did.

I believe in my last paragraph I suggested that it appears he is starting to get it together and good for him. I accept it (if I can since it doesn't involve me).

I still hate the way he and Haws play basketball though.

[The Thrill]

916102741398765568

Probably explains why he didn't throw any punches last year and played out of his game.
He was not the explosive (pun intended) player last year as he's been in the past.

[Rocker Ute]

I watched parts of the Boise St v BYU game last night and I’ll say BYU’s defense is pretty good but seems to be out on the field a lot.

Their offense is horrendous, as bad as I’ve ever seen. Ty Detmer should probably be let go right now.

I’ll admit that it is kind of hard to see.

One more game until they can stage their miraculous turnaround which legend will have began with a private player meeting where the team recommitted to winning etc.

Life as Sitake has to be pretty bleak right now.


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[Applejack]

I’ll admit that it is kind of hard to see.

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[UTEopia]

I also watched bits and pieces of the game. I think people, including myself, way overestimated Magnums ability. The interception before halftime was a terrible decision. Boise has two deep safeties and he throws a ball down the seam. Two things need to happen when they see cover 2, the QB needs to know he can't throw a seam route and the guy running the seam route has to know that he has to take whatever his other option is, which is usually something between the safeties. I also believe Detmer is way over his head. In the early 4th quarter, down 24-7, BYU has the ball near mid-field and have a nice completion called back due to a holding penalty. They are 1st and 20 and gain 17 on a check down to the RB. It has to be 4 down territory and instead of pounding the ball for the 3 yards, they throw incomplete on 2nd down (Mangum was rushed and threw it away), had a 2 1/2 yard completion on 3rd down and throw an incomplete bomb on 4th down. The look on Kalani's face after that series was bewilderment and anger mixed together.

The big problem Kalani faces is I don't think he can fire Detmer, Mahe, Cahoon or Empey. None of them are very good coaches. He didn't hire any of them, Holmoe did.

[concerned]

I also watched bits and pieces of the game. I think people, including myself, way overestimated Magnums ability. The interception before halftime was a terrible decision. Boise has two deep safeties and he throws a ball down the seam. Two things need to happen when they see cover 2, the QB needs to know he can't throw a seam route and the guy running the seam route has to know that he has to take whatever his other option is, which is usually something between the safeties. I also believe Detmer is way over his head. In the early 4th quarter, down 24-7, BYU has the ball near mid-field and have a nice completion called back due to a holding penalty. They are 1st and 20 and gain 17 on a check down to the RB. It has to be 4 down territory and instead of pounding the ball for the 3 yards, they throw incomplete on 2nd down (Mangum was rushed and threw it away), had a 2 1/2 yard completion on 3rd down and throw an incomplete bomb on 4th down. The look on Kalani's face after that series was bewilderment and anger mixed together.

The big problem Kalani faces is I don't think he can fire Detmer, Mahe, Cahoon or Empey. None of them are very good coaches. He didn't hire any of them, Holmoe did.

I watched parts too. I see BYU fans posts complaining that Detmer has ruined Mangum--that he was much better in Anae's offense. He was hobbling last night, and couldnt put full pressure on his left leg, but he misses a lot of reads. But his receivers did him no favors at all. On that 4th an 1, it was a bewildering call, but might have been brilliant. They were down 3 scores and needed to score quickly. Trinnaman could have caught it--it went right through his hands although he was reaching for it, and he got turned around the wrong way. You dont have to be Carrington to make that catch. There was another play at the pylon on the next drive. The receiver (cant remember who, but not Bushman, Simon, or Trinnaman) was covered but the ball bounced off his hands and helmet. You dont have to be Carrington to get that TD either.

Does the fact that they pulled Critchlow's red shirt mean they have giving up on Mangum or dont expect Hoge to play again? If you are Tanner Mckee how could you ever commit to playing there and not thinking it will ruin your college and professional career.

And where do they go from here? Who are their skill players next year? Tolutau may be better next year, but who else? And their o line cant get any push off the line.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I am happy to see that good old ARod magic working on their offense.

[UTEopia]

I am happy to see that good old ARod magic working on their offense.

What are you talking about? He isn't doing anything. He was going to provide an analysis of the oppositions defensive scene and personnel, but decided to not do it.

[Rocker Ute]

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Three things... I think Sitake is a good dude and this is career ender sort of stuff, and the sort of sadness that a once decent to strong program is on a downward spiral trajectory. Plus, feeling pity for tooblue makes me feel icky inside.

[sancho]

Three things... I think Sitake is a good dude and this is career ender sort of stuff, and the sort of sadness that a once decent to strong program is on a downward spiral trajectory. Plus, feeling pity for tooblue makes me feel icky inside.

Sitake will be fine. If he's fired at BYU, he (1) is already rich and (2) will land as an assistant somewhere. There is no response but rejoicing at the current state of BYU football.

[Applejack]

Three things... I think Sitake is a good dude and this is career ender sort of stuff, and the sort of sadness that a once decent to strong program is on a downward spiral trajectory. Plus, feeling pity for tooblue makes me feel icky inside.

Toolblue is fine. He hasn't seen a byu loss in years. Plus he loves having detmer back, regardless of results.

[NorthwestUteFan]

What are you talking about? He isn't doing anything. He was going to provide an analysis of the oppositions defensive scene and personnel, but decided to not do it.Relax, it's a joke.

And even byu doesn't look quite that inept yet.

[concerned]

Prediction: Detmer resigns at year end, replaced by Arod.

[Old Standing ute]

I don't really pay attention to BYU football, but read today in the Trib a short blurb that Detmer basically said he does not know what he is doing----installing a new offense in the middle of the season & he does not even understand the offense.

Appreciate his honesty------ but that is embarrassing. Hard enough or bad enough to have a head coach with no experience, but then add this guy as the O coordinator?

Right down the toilet.

[Brian]

Atta boy, Holmoe.

[LA Ute]

Offensive coordinator Ty Detmer acknowledged Tuesday that BYU’s offense is “a lot different” than the one he envisioned when he got the job 21 months ago. It is more of a spread attack out of the shotgun formation. The pro-style system that Detmer prefers has mostly been scrapped because Mangum and the other four QBs who have played like the shotgun better.

“So I am learning a ton, on the fly here, as far as some of the other nuances to a spread offense and zone read and bubbles and [run-pass-options] and all those things that I am not as familiar with, and [I am] not afraid to admit it,” Detmer said.

“So, we are learning a lot this year about different schemes and different things,” he continued. “It will be good for the future. But right now we are taking our lumps trying to figure it out. It is a work in progress.”

Wow.

[SoCalPat]

A $100 bet against BYU in its opener, and letting it ride each week, would have netted you $5890 to this point.

[Scratch]

A $100 bet against BYU in its opener, and letting it ride each week, would have netted you $5890 to this point.

How about a parlay every week with BYU against the spread and Utah to covet the spread?

[SoCalPat]

A $100 2-team parlay would pay off $260. But there is one major flaw in your scenario, and that both teams have had bye weeks. Plus, BYU has an additional game under its belt in which Utah hadn't even started its season yet. Although BYU has played 7 games and Utah 6, there have been only five weeks in which you could've made a 2-team parlay involving both teams.

Assuming you were one of likely many to get Utah better than +3 against Stanford, and assuming the team you bet on is a -110 payoff in all games (once in a while, you can make a bet ATS and get even money), you could've placed five such two-team parlays. These numbers are not 100 percent accurate, but close enough for discussion's sake.

After Week 1, you'd have $260

After Week 2, you'd have $698

After Week 3, you'd have $1,845

After Week 4, you'd have $4,879

Today, you'd have $12,903

[Scratch]

A $100 2-team parlay would pay off $260. But there is one major flaw in your scenario, and that both teams have had bye weeks. Plus, BYU has an additional game under its belt in which Utah hadn't even started its season yet. Although BYU has played 7 games and Utah 6, there have been only five weeks in which you could've made a 2-team parlay involving both teams.

Assuming you were one of likely many to get Utah better than +3 against Stanford, and assuming the team you bet on is a -110 payoff in all games (once in a while, you can make a bet ATS and get even money), you could've placed five such two-team parlays. These numbers are not 100 percent accurate, but close enough for discussion's sake.

After Week 1, you'd have $260

After Week 2, you'd have $698

After Week 3, you'd have $1,845

After Week 4, you'd have $4,879

Today, you'd have $12,903

Thanks.

[Scorcho]

2. B-Why?-U (http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/252/byu-cougars) (1-6)http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/252.png?w=110&h=110&transparent=trueAll due respect to Tennessee (http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/2633/tennessee-volunteers), Nebraska (http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/158/nebraska-cornhuskers), whatever brand-name program you want to name, no team has been a bigger blue bummer than BYU. You may not be aware of this, but the BYU fan base is one of college football's most passionate. Ask any sportswriter who has dared criticize the Cougs. But this year's team is so bad that fan base has poured that same passion into its #Bottom10Lobbying efforts. It's the same sort of passion that went into putting together BYU's 2017 schedule, a cross-country campaign designed to grab the attention of the College Football Playoff selection committee and perhaps even a Power 5 conference. Instead, it suddenly looks custom-made to win a Bottom 10 title. What in the world do I speak of? Read ahead.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21050478/bottom-10-washington-huskies-washington-state-cougars-slip-up

[sancho]

2. B-Why?-U (http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/252/byu-cougars) (1-6)

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/252.png?w=110&h=110&transparent=trueAll due respect to Tennessee (http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/2633/tennessee-volunteers), Nebraska (http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/158/nebraska-cornhuskers), whatever brand-name program you want to name, no team has been a bigger blue bummer than BYU. You may not be aware of this, but the BYU fan base is one of college football's most passionate. Ask any sportswriter who has dared criticize the Cougs. But this year's team is so bad that fan base has poured that same passion into its #Bottom10Lobbying efforts. It's the same sort of passion that went into putting together BYU's 2017 schedule, a cross-country campaign designed to grab the attention of the College Football Playoff selection committee and perhaps even a Power 5 conference. Instead, it suddenly looks custom-made to win a Bottom 10 title. What in the world do I speak of? Read ahead.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21050478/bottom-10-washington-huskies-washington-state-cougars-slip-up

Wow. Thing is, only one of the losses was unexpected coming into the season. BYU should lose to Utah, LSU, Wisc, BSU, and Miss St. What's surprising is just how lopsided it's all been (except, of course, for the Utah game).

This is fixable for BYU - they have to schedule down a bit further. Go for 1-2 P5 games per year like other mid-majors.

[Two Utes]

Wow.

BYU needs a gimmicky offense. They don't have the horses and athletes to run a pro style offense. Remember, Holmoe hired Detmer, not Sitake. I'm sure that is a conflict between the two. I'm sure Sitake wants his guy. Hiring Detmer was dumb. Yet, for whatever reasons, Holmoe never gets attacked. Can you imagine Chris Hill hiring the Offensive Coordinator?

[sancho]

Yet, for whatever reasons, Holmoe never gets attacked.

We were trying to list his successes a few months ago. Slim pickings.

[Scratch]

Thing is, only one of the losses was unexpected coming into the season. BYU should lose to Utah, LSU, Wisc, BSU, and Miss St.

While that is true, before the season started I would have expected them to pull off a win in one of those 5 games, even though they would be the dog in all of them. I thought 3-4 was reasonable, given the two expected gimme games (USU and Portland State). 1-6 is just glorious, especially considering how they've gotten there.

[Scratch]

Holmoe never gets attacked.

This is starting to change. Not as much as it should, but it's starting.

[concerned]

BYU needs a gimmicky offense. They don't have the horses and athletes to run a pro style offense. Remember, Holmoe hired Detmer, not Sitake. I'm sure that is a conflict between the two. I'm sure Sitake wants his guy. Hiring Detmer was dumb. Yet, for whatever reasons, Holmoe never gets attacked. Can you imagine Chris Hill hiring the Offensive Coordinator?


Wasnt that also the issue with Ken N? Holmoe didn't want him to run his offense, but to hire Detmer? Ken N. wanted to run his offense, so they agreed to go their separate ways? Holmoe preferred Kalani because he would run Detmer's offense?

[Scratch]

Wasnt that also the issue with Ken N? Holmoe didn't want him to run his offense, but to hire Detmer? Ken N. wanted to run his offense, so they agreed to go their separate ways? Holmoe preferred Kalani because he would run Detmer's offense?

Yes. Ken N showed up with an offer in hand, expecting to take the job, and then Holmoe told him his OC would have to be Detmer. It is almost inconceivable that a D1 AD could do that to a guy like Ken N who is an extremely successful and established HC; a major slap in the face. Ken N told him to pound sand and Holmoe immediately jumped on a plane to go hire Kalani. I've heard speculation that Holmoe wanted Sitake from the get-go but his bosses wanted Ken N, so Holmoe kind of undermined the possible Ken N hiring by insisting on Detmer, but who knows.

[concerned]

I've heard speculation that Holmoe wanted Sitake from the get-go but his bosses wanted Ken N, so Holmoe kind of undermined the possible Ken N hiring by insisting on Detmer, but who knows.


I heard that too. From Holmoe's perspective, I would bet he thought he was protecting BYU's brand. The fan base would never go for a gimmicky air force, navy, ga. tech offense, but wanted the restoration of McMahon, Bosco, Young, Detmer.

[Nice Marmot]

I heard that too. From Holmoe's perspective, I would bet he thought he was protecting BYU's brand. The fan base would never go for a gimmicky air force, navy, ga. tech offense, but wanted the restoration of McMahon, Bosco, Young, Detmer.

I have a hard time believing the option would work at byu but what do I know? Are there enough Mormon kids running the option in high school that they would be able to recruit QBs?

[sancho]

Is it a bad idea in general to hire a former coach as AD? It's got to be so hard for someone with that background to not meddle.

[Rocker Ute]

Doman came from the mighty Skyline High School and was an option QB there.


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[SeattleUte]

I have a hard time believing the option would work at byu but what do I know? Are there enough Mormon kids running the option in high school that they would be able to recruit QBs?

If I were BYU I'd go all out for Ken N. I think BYU gets good enough recruits to get into the top 25 every once in a while, and with the right schedule, maybe into a Big Bowl--with a coach like ours who gets the most out of his recruiting disadvantages. BYU could do that running a pro style. But I think it's core problem right now is coaching. This whole staff is so green and so demonstrably not savvy. I've been predicting that what has happened would happen. And it's not just that they've lost, it's how they've lost. There's no reason to think this program will turn around.

But every time BYU has to find a new coach, it has almost no viable candidates, because of its peculiarity. Bronco was a panic hire and the fact he was good was a fluke. So like some schools just recruit the best athletes for basketball, or skill positions, if I were BYU I'd just hire the best available coach, and let him win the way he can or wants. That's Ken N. From what I've seen, he'd make them a real rival to the Utes again.

Please don't follow my advice, BYU. Just like you never do.

[UBlender]

I think if BYU had hired Ken N. and embraced the triple option you'd suddenly see several high schools in Utah (especially Utah County) start running that system. It's a high school friendly system and if you've got a local school running it you give those players a leg up on getting scholarship offers that they may not otherwise get. Now these wouldn't be 4* recruits that would be getting fed to BYU but they could be similar to Air Force where they're just athletic enough to be a complete pain in the butt and win 7-8 games almost every year.

[U-Ute]

We were trying to list his successes a few months ago. Slim pickings.

HD TRUCK!

FqtWrearu5vb2

[LA Ute]

Yes. Ken N showed up with an offer in hand, expecting to take the job, and then Holmoe told him his OC would have to be Detmer.

Wow. I did not know this.

[mUUser]

Yes. Ken N showed up with an offer in hand, expecting to take the job, and then Holmoe told him his OC would have to be Detmer........


I would be interested to know how you know this to be the case. Is there a link to an article or interview, or through personal conversation? I know its a popular talking point, but, I'm skeptical of it because of the bizarreness of it.

[UTEopia]

I would be interested to know how you know this to be the case. Is there a link to an article or interview, or through personal conversation? I know its a popular talking point, but, I'm skeptical of it because of the bizarreness of it.

I know it from conversations with people who would know. I also know it was the case with Kalani. Not just Detmer though, also Mahe, Empey and the receiver coach.

[U-Ute]

An accurate recap

2281

[Scorcho]

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46185714&nid=272

Sitake must be having a ball

[Applejack]

Where is Toolblue? All year he's been MIA. What could possibly have happened?

[Scorcho]

Where is Toolblue? All year he's been MIA. What could possibly have happened?

Caribou migration has required a relocation of his igloo

[U-Ute]

Caribou migration has required a relocation of his igloo

I hope he was able to find CBS Sports Network on his TV.

[Two Utes]

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46185714&nid=272

Sitake must be having a ball\


This raises another real issue. If you are a person of color and you decide to go to BYU, be advised that you will likely be pulled over if you are driving late at night. Bernard gets pulled over and blows a .09 barely over the limit. Tolatau gets pulled over. He's not driving but they decide they have enough evidence to search him and cite him for possession. It happens over and over in Utah County.

Personally, I wouldn't live there if I were a person of color. Actually, I wouldn't live there as a white dude.

[Diehard Ute]

\


This raises another real issue. If you are a person of color and you decide to go to BYU, be advised that you will likely be pulled over if you are driving late at night. Bernard gets pulled over and blows a .09 barely over the limit. Tolatau gets pulled over. He's not driving but they decide they have enough evidence to search him and cite him for possession. It happens over and over in Utah County.

Personally, I wouldn't live there if I were a person of color. Actually, I wouldn't live there as a white dude.

And bad choices have consequences.

Drinking and driving is stupid.

Having marijuana in a car is stupid.

The courts have ruled the odor of marijuana coming from a vehicle is probable cause to search the vehicle and occupants, a warrant is not needed. A vehicle has less stringent rules than a house. And anyone has been around marijuana knows how strong the odor is.






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[Two Utes]

And bad choices have consequences.

Drinking and driving is stupid.

Having marijuana in a car is stupid.


The courts have ruled the odor of marijuana coming from a vehicle is probable cause to search the vehicle and occupants, a warrant is not needed. A vehicle has less stringent rules than a house. And anyone has been around marijuana knows how strong the odor is.




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So as long as the cop smells the odor of marijuana, he can order everybody out of the car and can search everybody. No objective criteria. He or she just has to say "I smelled the odor of marijuana" or "I smelled the odor of alcohol."

Driving around Utah County late at night is stupid (that is, if you are a person of color).

Going to BYU if you are a person of color is stupid.

[Diehard Ute]

So as long as the cop smells the odor of marijuana, he can order everybody out of the car and can search everybody. No objective criteria. He or she just has to say "I smelled the odor of marijuana" or "I smelled the odor of alcohol."

Driving around Utah County late at night is stupid (that is, if you are a person of color).

Going to BYU if you are a person of color is stupid.

There are several things that point to DUI. With some of those present there’s enough to have the driver perform field sobriety tests. The driver has to fail a certain number of “clues” to them be processed for a DUI.

And yes, the odor of marijuana in a car is enough to search the car.

You seem to be implying the cops are out of line in these cases. Yet there’s physical evidence in both.

I’m curious why you’re not upset at the athletes for making bad choices, especially Bernard for driving drunk.


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[Two Utes]

There are several things that point to DUI. With some of those present there’s enough to have the driver perform field sobriety tests. The driver has to fail a certain number of “clues” to them be processed for a DUI.

And yes, the odor of marijuana in a car is enough to search the car.

You seem to be implying the cops are out of line in these cases. Yet there’s physical evidence in both.

I’m curious why you’re not upset at the athletes for making bad choices, especially Bernard for driving drunk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm troubled that so many people of color are in the news being pulled over by cops when there aren't that many people of color in Utah County.

Same thing happens in Cache County. If you visited a court day up there and you had to sit through a criminal calendar, without knowing anything else, you would think that a majority of the population is people of color given the number of folks being brought up on charges and what not.

Again. to my original point, it's stupid to go to BYU if you are a person of color.

[mUUser]

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46185714&nid=272

Sitake must be having a ball


Ouch. When it rains it pours. Interesting that he played in two games since the violation......not that he did enough to make much of an impact though.

[LA Ute]

Ouch. When it rains it pours. Interesting that he played in two games since the violation......not that he did enough to make much of an impact though.

I wonder what is being said about all this behind closed doors at 47 East South Temple. I think the pressure will increase to make BYU sports follow the military service academy model.

[sancho]

I wonder what is being said about all this behind closed doors at 47 East South Temple. I think the pressure will increase to make BYU sports follow the military service academy model.

What is the service academy model? Join a conference? Run the option?

[UtahsMrSports]

So as long as the cop smells the odor of marijuana, he can order everybody out of the car and can search everybody. No objective criteria. He or she just has to say "I smelled the odor of marijuana" or "I smelled the odor of alcohol."

Driving around Utah County late at night is stupid (that is, if you are a person of color).

Going to BYU if you are a person of color is stupid.

I'm sorry, but I dont bye what youre selling here. I just don't see cops, in the middle of the night, a)being able to determine someone's race as they drive by and b)pulling them over simply because of their skin color when they would let a white person just go. Of course there are bad apples and of course what I just described happens, but I just dont think its happening at an epidemic level. More blame needs to be placed on those committing the crime.

As far as the cops being able to search a car based on the smell of weed.......why not? If someone is worried about being unfairly treated by the cops, pull out your phone and film it.

[LA Ute]

What is the service academy model? Join a conference? Run the option?

Forget about national championships, just try to stand for something and along the way play the best football you can with the athletes you can attract who can meet your standards. I would respect them for adopting that model.

[Scorcho]

Forget about national championships, just try to stand for something and along the way play the best football you can with the athletes you can attract who can meet your standards. I would respect them for adopting that model.

except Ula and Bernard are both returned missionaries.

These are the droids you're looking for.

[sancho]

Forget about national championships, just try to stand for something and along the way play the best football you can with the athletes you can attract who can meet your standards. I would respect them for adopting that model.


Okay. I don't think the academies made a conscious decision to adopt any particular model. It just happened gradually as they become less and less able to compete at the national championship level. It is the model of most G5 programs. It's probably already the model at BYU except for the acceptance from the fan base part of it. Shoot, from a certain point of view, it's the model of most P5 programs as well.

[Brian]

Forget about national championships, just try to stand for something and along the way play the best football you can with the athletes you can attract who can meet your standards. I would respect them for adopting that model.

That would require a modicum of humility.

Time will tell if that is possible.

[LA Ute]

Okay. I don't think the academies made a conscious decision to adopt any particular model. It just happened gradually as they become less and less able to compete at the national championship level. It is the model of most G5 programs. It's probably already the model at BYU except for the acceptance from the fan base part of it. Shoot, from a certain point of view, it's the model of most P5 programs as well.

Except I don't think most P5 programs are determined to stand for something special.

[sancho]

Just heard about Nick Emery not playing this year. This is a clear addition by subtraction scenario for Provo.

[Two Utes]

Just heard about Nick Emery not playing this year. This is a clear addition by subtraction scenario for Provo.

A little timeline:

Punches Brandon Taylor during a basketball game.

Afterwards appears to show zero remorse for his actions and when Coach K complains he tells him to "sit down and shut the fuck up" making K so upset that he cancels the BYU Utah basketball game the next year.

Consistently comes down on 3 and 1 and 2 and 1 fast breaks and jacks up NBA threes.

Regularly takes running jumpers and long 2 point shots with 15 to 20 seconds left on the clock

Gets married. Within a year or so get's divorced (over rumors of infidelity, causing friction with x-wife's family so much so that said family rats him out to the media--see below)

Takes trips with fan boy 40 year old cougar club member to see U2 in concert in Toronto (and is dumb enough to post it on social media)

Takes the benefit of a car titled in the fan guy's name.

Only after coach tells media that Emery must sit out until issues above are resolved by the NCAA, does he withdraw from school saying his mind isn't right (of course, one could argue what he is really doing is saving a basketball season by basically red shirting and waiting to find out what the NCAA and BYU does to him before deciding to transfer.)

Yeah, I would agree. Addition by subtraction.

[Scratch]

It's kind of funny, given the relative pre-college hype that was placed on the two of them, that it looks pretty likely that Jackson will be the more valuable player in college.

[LA Ute]

It's kind of funny, given the relative pre-college hype that was placed on the two of them, that it looks pretty likely that Jackson will be the more valuable player in college.

Seems like a very angry kid. I hope he gets that under control.

[UtahsMrSports]

It's kind of funny, given the relative pre-college hype that was placed on the two of them, that it looks pretty likely that Jackson will be the more valuable player in college.

I remember one of these local media guys said that Nick was a perfect combo of Jimmer and Jackson. Wish I could remember who it was.

[Old Standing ute]

maybe he should transfer to the Home for Lost Boys aka UVU.

[LA Ute]

maybe he should transfer to the Home for Lost Boys aka UVU.

He needs to find a coach desperate enough to take a chance on him.

I’m actually expecting a heart-warming redemption story in about 9 months.

[Solon]

maybe he should transfer to the home for lost boys aka uvu.

suu!

[U-Ute]

He needs to find a coach desperate enough to take a chance on him.

I’m actually expecting a heart-warming redemption story in about 9 months.

Maybe Ole Miss has emotionally recovered from the Henderson days by now.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Maybe Ole Miss has emotionally recovered from the Henderson days by now....just in time to begin the football team probation (30 scholly reduction for 3 years, show-cause letters for three coaches. Ugly times coming at Ole Miss).

[sancho]

...just in time to begin the football team probation (30 scholly reduction for 3 years, show-cause letters for three coaches. Ugly times coming at Ole Miss).

Yeah, but ugly times is pretty much the norm at Ole Miss. It's not like they have a long history of success.

[tooblue]

A little timeline:

Punches Brandon Taylor during a basketball game.

Afterwards appears to show zero remorse for his actions and when Coach K complains he tells him to "sit down and shut the fuck up" making K so upset that he cancels the BYU Utah basketball game the next year.

Consistently comes down on 3 and 1 and 2 and 1 fast breaks and jacks up NBA threes.

Regularly takes running jumpers and long 2 point shots with 15 to 20 seconds left on the clock

Gets married. Within a year or so get's divorced (over rumors of infidelity, causing friction with x-wife's family so much so that said family rats him out to the media--see below)

Takes trips with fan boy 40 year old cougar club member to see U2 in concert in Toronto (and is dumb enough to post it on social media)

Takes the benefit of a car titled in the fan guy's name.

Only after coach tells media that Emery must sit out until issues above are resolved by the NCAA, does he withdraw from school saying his mind isn't right (of course, one could argue what he is really doing is saving a basketball season by basically red shirting and waiting to find out what the NCAA and BYU does to him before deciding to transfer.)

Yeah, I would agree. Addition by subtraction.

Are things this bad in Salt Suck City after losing to Wazzu that you must wallow in conjecture and rumour? I don't like his privileged basketball attitude either. Yes, there should be consequences for alleged NCAA infractions. But dealing in rumours about his marriage is beyond the pale. Almost as bad as blaming BYU for Utah fan stupidity (see earlier in this thread). What the hell has happened to you, and Utah fans in general? Your post is embarrassing.

[NorthwestUteFan]

That 'rumor' came from his ex-wife and was the cause of their separation.

Dropping a dime to the NCAA happened because he is an asshole.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Yeah, but ugly times is pretty much the norm at Ole Miss. It's not like they have a long history of success.Yeah, but this time they even failed at cheating. And they are getting a far greater punishment than did Penn State.

[tooblue]

That 'rumor' came from his ex-wife and was the cause of their separation.

Dropping a dime to the NCAA happened because he is an asshole.

If you're this butt hurt about a 22 year old and his actual as well as alleged poor decision-making, there's something not quite right with you.

[NorthwestUteFan]

If you're this butt hurt about a 22 year old and his actual as well as alleged poor decision-making, there's something not quite right with you.I could not care less about that. He is welcome to do what he wants with consenting adults.

I was only correcting the statement.

[tooblue]

I could not care less about that. He is welcome to do what he wants with consenting adults.

I was only correcting the statement.

And I'm just making an accurate observation.

[NorthwestUteFan]

And I'm just making an accurate observation.You are misdiagnosing butthurt.

[U-Ute]

Are things this bad in Salt Suck City after losing to Wazzu that you must wallow in conjecture and rumour? I don't like his privileged basketball attitude either. Yes, there should be consequences for alleged NCAA infractions. But dealing in rumours about his marriage is beyond the pale. Almost as bad as blaming BYU for Utah fan stupidity (see earlier in this thread). What the hell has happened to you, and Utah fans in general? Your post is embarrassing.

I think you missed his point which was that BYU was better off without him.

I'm not sure where he appears anything but congenial about this.

[tooblue]

You are misdiagnosing butthurt.

Could be. I should probably listen to an expert on the subject.

[tooblue]

I think you missed his point which was that BYU was better off without him.

I'm not sure where he appears anything but congenial about this.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46198691&nid=968

[SeattleUte]

Are things this bad in Salt Suck City after losing to Wazzu that you must wallow in conjecture and rumour? I don't like his privileged basketball attitude either. Yes, there should be consequences for alleged NCAA infractions. But dealing in rumours about his marriage is beyond the pale. Almost as bad as blaming BYU for Utah fan stupidity (see earlier in this thread). What the hell has happened to you, and Utah fans in general? Your post is embarrassing.

Haha. No response from two utes to little brother's chiding. Probably two utes is waiting to whup is ass on Thanksgiving.

[Scorcho]

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46198691&nid=968

"Ëverybody loses in Emery Scandal?" as a Utah fan, I'm trying to figure out how I lose?

For sheer comedic entertainment, I think I win. The simple fact that Emery was found hanging out with a middle aged man at Harry Potter Land while driving his buddy's Jetta is about as BYUish as it comes. It could only be more BYUish if it included Legoland, a GMC Astro van (with a happiness is family home evening bumper sitcker) and some sort of free tickets to a clogging performance.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

"Ëverybody loses in Emery Scandal?" as a Utah fan, I'm trying to figure out how I lose?

For sheer comedic entertainment, I think I win. The simple fact that Emery was found hanging out with a middle aged man at Harry Potter Land while driving his buddy's Jetta is about as BYUish as it comes. It could only be more BYUish if it included Legoland, a GMC Astro van (with a happiness is family home evening bumper sitcker) and some sort of free tickets to a clogging performance.

Everyone loses, except for the kid that got a free trip back East for a U2 concert and a VW Jetta. Well, actually. I guess everyone does lose in this situation.

[sancho]

"Ëverybody loses in Emery Scandal?" as a Utah fan, I'm trying to figure out how I lose?


Well, we do play BYU this season, right? We lose in the sense that BYU is a better team without Emery. In general, I want BYU to continue to be bad at sports, and dropping Emery is a step in the wrong direction for that.

[Two Utes]

Well, we do play BYU this season, right? We lose in the sense that BYU is a better team without Emery. In general, I want BYU to continue to be bad at sports, and dropping Emery is a step in the wrong direction for that.


I actually enjoyed watching BYU play last year. I didn't see a ton of their games but watched more of them than I have in a long time. The way they played last year was humorous. They had a number of kids who refused to play defense and would jack up crazy shots. Many of the Cougs suffer from extreme inflated images of themselves as basketball players mostly due to their achievements and privileges in high school. The Lone peak kids, in particular, received star treatment in high school and expected it in college. Combine that with (1) other players who want to play for BYU because they believe they can play like Jimmer; (2) players who look like 35 year old pudgy first counselors in the Lindon 4th ward; and (3) the general lack of any control or concern by the coaching staff, made for must watch TV. Beyond Gonzaga and St Mary's, the WCC was a really bad conference so they actually looked better than they were. They were bad. They were losing to Texas Arlington by 20 bad and giving up 110 points to 13-15 UVU bad ( I would argue that this loss might be the worst loss in 40 years of BYU basketball.)

I'm not going to enjoy BYU like I did last year without Emery and with Schroyer. They are going to be more disciplined. I likely won't watch many of their games.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Well, we do play BYU this season, right? We lose in the sense that BYU is a better team without Emery. In general, I want BYU to continue to be bad at sports, and dropping Emery is a step in the wrong direction for that.There are plenty of other players who will pop 30' three pointers when running a 3-1 fast break. That is a staple of (whatever their coach's name is) -style of play.

No worries on that front.

[U-Ute]

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46198691&nid=968

Yes. BYU is worse off for what he did. But that's not what I said.

Question: Would BYU be better off with him on the team understanding the distraction this situation is becoming?

[NorthwestUteFan]

Could be. I should probably listen to an expert on the subject.Probably, but they won't let you on those websites any longer...

😀

[U-Ute]

Woah. I didn’t realize how bad things really were until now.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171118/b9964fa49cc1a6cbb8c08e07307a2f6d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Solon]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865693183/The-rise-and-fall-An-inside-look-at-the-decline-of-BYUs-marquee-sports-programs.html

Long Deseret News article today about the "decline of BYUs marquee sports programs".

I'm sure I read through crimson-colored lenses, but there is a lot of sour grapes in there about Utah in the PAC and BYU not in a conference.

[hostile]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865693183/The-rise-and-fall-An-inside-look-at-the-decline-of-BYUs-marquee-sports-programs.html

Long Deseret News article today about the "decline of BYUs marquee sports programs".

I'm sure I read through crimson-colored lenses, but there is a lot of sour grapes in there about Utah in the PAC and BYU not in a conference.
Dick Harmon, contributor.

[Mormon Red Death]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865693183/The-rise-and-fall-An-inside-look-at-the-decline-of-BYUs-marquee-sports-programs.html

Long Deseret News article today about the "decline of BYUs marquee sports programs".

I'm sure I read through crimson-colored lenses, but there is a lot of sour grapes in there about Utah in the PAC and BYU not in a conference.

This is my favorite part:


The Cougars also failed to get an invite to the Pac-10 when Utah and Colorado were invited to join that league in 2011, but to really understand what happened you need to go back to 1997. BYU had just completed a 14-1 season in which it won the Cotton Bowl and finished No. 5 in the final polls. Fehlberg, who was athletic director at the time, approached Pac-10 officials to solicit an invitation for BYU to join the league. During meetings with Pac-10 athletic directors, Fehlberg says they all told him the same thing — it was a no-brainer; BYU put more fans in seats on the road than any other school, even most of their rivals.
“I spent a lot of time working under cover of darkness to get us in the Pac-10,” Fehlberg says. “It was a done deal, but it didn’t happen.”
https://www.deseretnews.com/media/photos/midres/web-5a14de2a21e05.jpgFormer BYU athletic director Rondo Fehlberg. | Malcolm Brenner, Gallup Independent

The Pac-10 told Fehlberg that BYU would need a travel partner. Fehlberg suggested Utah, but the idea was dismissed immediately — BYU already brought the Utah TV market to the league. Fehlberg approached Colorado, which immediately liked the idea of joining the league. But, as Fehlberg tells it, Colorado later reneged. He says CU officials told him that Texas governor Ann Richards threatened to sue if Colorado left the Big 12, which included many Texas schools.
That left BYU without a travel partner. According to Fehlberg, BYU’s move to the Pac-10 was put on hold. In the following years, two events occurred: Utah had two extraordinary, undefeated years in football and Proposition 8 went on the California ballot.
“The entire equation changed,” says Fehlberg.


Ann Richards is a saint and a hero! She kept them out of the Pac-12 and Big 12

[Mormon Red Death]

Wait another great part....



BYU also made a serious bid to join the Big 12 when Utah joined the Pac-12. Fehlberg was no longer athletic director but he was invited to a reception at BYU for Big 12 ADs and coaches. “They were blown away by our facilities and BYUtv,” says Fehlberg

[Applejack]

The best paragraph is the one in which BYU is heaped with international praise for suspending Brandon Davies because he had premarital relations. I think we know which part Dick Harmon contributed to.

[Scratch]

This is my favorite part:



Ann Richards is a saint and a hero! She kept them out of the Pac-12 and Big 12

Yes, if you believe any of Fehlberg's crap. I seriously doubt BYU was ever all that close to getting into the P10.

That said, this story is also interesting because a ton of delusional BYU fans claim that BYU and Utah had a deal to never go to a conference without the other. Some even claim that BYU would have joined the B12 but for this deal. Of course this is absurd, but in any event the Fehlberg story destroys that narrative because, at least according to him, BYU was trying to get into the P12 with Colorado and not Utah.

[LA Ute]

Of course this is absurd, but in any event the Fehlberg story destroys that narrative because, at least according to him, BYU was trying to get into the P12 with Colorado and not Utah.

I’d never heard that until now, thanks to Rhondo. Very interesting, and yes, it destroys that narrative. Back then BYU had absolutely no interest in doing anything that would help Utah’s rise as an athletic power. They never have had any such interest, but their ability to pretend otherwise is now gone.

[Scorcho]

in the 70's/80's wasn't BYU spending three times what every other WAC school was?

[concerned]

Yes, if you believe any of Fehlberg's crap. I seriously doubt BYU was ever all that close to getting into the P10.

That said, this story is also interesting because a ton of delusional BYU fans claim that BYU and Utah had a deal to never go to a conference without the other. Some even claim that BYU would have joined the B12 but for this deal. Of course this is absurd, but in any event the Fehlberg story destroys that narrative because, at least according to him, BYU was trying to get into the P12 with Colorado and not Utah.

I don't believe it. Fehlberg may have been trying to get the Y in, but everything i have ever read for 20 years was that the Pac 10 (and Tom Hansen especially) had no desire to expand; the conference did not consider it until they got rid of Hansen and replaced him with Scott because they had to expand to keep up with the Big 10 etc. moneywise.

[SeattleUte]

BYU was never a Pac 10 candidate. It was never invited by the Big 12. Anything that says so is a lie. The litmus test for lying is claiming the Pac 10 wanted BYU. BYU gives the Pac 10 the heebee geebees and it always has felt that way about BYU.

[UBlender]

I don't believe it. Fehlberg may have been trying to get the Y in, but everything i have ever read for 20 years was that the Pac 10 (and Tom Hansen especially) had no desire to expand; the conference did not consider it until they got rid of Hansen and replaced him with Scott because they had to expand to keep up with the Big 10 etc. moneywise.

The other big hole in Rondo's story is that his alleged feedback is coming from the ADs, who really aren't in control of the decision making in this process. It's possible that those ADs really did tell him those things, but if so it's like when you were a kid and you and your friend would make plans for a slumber party and you agreed it was a great idea, but then you had to go ask your mom and dad.....

[UBlender]

The best paragraph is the one in which BYU is heaped with international praise for suspending Brandon Davies because he had premarital relations. I think we know which part Dick Harmon contributed to.

I love this faith promoting story and the fact that it grows with each passing year. "BYU would have won a national championship if not for their honor and integrity...." Yeah, Davies got the girl pregnant, that was going to blow up soon either way. They just did proactive damage control (BYU always stays winning at managing PR).

[SeattleUte]

The other big hole in Rondo's story is that his alleged feedback is coming from the ADs, who really aren't in control of the decision making in this process. It's possible that those ADs really did tell him those things, but if so it's like when you were a kid and you and your friend would make plans for a slumber party and you agreed it was a great idea, but then you had to go ask your mom and dad.....

Haha. Great analogy.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

934492608545648640

Also, BYU down by 11 with a few minutes until half time.

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[U-Ute]

934492608545648640

Also, BYU down by 11 with a few minutes until half time.

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:rofl:


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[LuckyUte]

I love this faith promoting story and the fact that it grows with each passing year. "BYU would have won a national championship if not for their honor and integrity...." Yeah, Davies got the girl pregnant, that was going to blow up soon either way. They just did proactive damage control (BYU always stays winning at managing PR).

And they won Jim Rome's respect, so now they have that going for them, which is nice.

http://www.worldgolf.com/cgi-bin/common_cgi/xphoto.php?a=wi&p=49272

[LuckyUte]

And another thing. You can't say on one hand that your greatness should get you in to the party, and on the other say that the programs aren't winning. Which is it, are your teams good or not?

I would posit that nothing has really changed over the whole time. I don't remember the record exactly, but doesn't BYU have a terrible bowl record, and other than a few well-known victories over a few name schools, isn't the record against name schools, even in their heyday, mostly mediocre? I mean, what has changed other than fan and media perceptions of status. It has always been this way, it was just hidden by BYU's ability to beat up on WAC teams for two decades.

[LA Ute]

And another thing. You can't say on one hand that your greatness should get you in to the party, and on the other say that the programs aren't winning. Which is it, are your teams good or not?

I would posit that nothing has really changed over the whole time. I don't remember the record exactly, but doesn't BYU have a terrible bowl record, and other than a few well-known victories over a few name schools, isn't the record against name schools, even in their heyday, mostly mediocre? I mean, what has changed other than fan and media perceptions of status. It has always been this way, it was just hidden by BYU's ability to beat up on WAC teams for two decades.

Analysis: True.

[sancho]

Just wanted to announce how happy I am that Fred Warner collected his senior day blanket in front of an empty stadium after losing to UMass.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Ty Freaking Detmer was just fired by BYU. Does Aaron Roderick get the gig?

Edit: Sorry. Just relieved of his OC duties. Not fired. Not sure what else he was doing. QB coach?!

[sancho]

Ty Freaking Detmer was just fired by BYU. Does Aaron Roderick get the gig?

That would not be a horrible decision. I think he'll try for something bigger, knowing that ARod is there as a back up.

This is on Holmoe. He set that program back years by insisting on Detmer.

[Scorcho]

Ty Freaking Detmer was just fired by BYU. Does Aaron Roderick get the gig?

Edit: Sorry. Just relieved of his OC duties. Not fired. Not sure what else he was doing. QB coach?!

well, they probably need a church magazine subscription clerk for the coaching staff

[U-Ute]

And another thing. You can't say on one hand that your greatness should get you in to the party, and on the other say that the programs aren't winning. Which is it, are your teams good or not?

I would posit that nothing has really changed over the whole time. I don't remember the record exactly, but doesn't BYU have a terrible bowl record, and other than a few well-known victories over a few name schools, isn't the record against name schools, even in their heyday, mostly mediocre? I mean, what has changed other than fan and media perceptions of status. It has always been this way, it was just hidden by BYU's ability to beat up on WAC teams for two decades.

Only in locations where disciplined logic is valued.

Which basically means anywhere but Provo. Talking to some of their fans, they think they beat Miami every year.

[NorthwestUteFan]

well, they probably need a church magazine subscription clerk for the coaching staffThat is about what they are paying their coaches anyhow, so they can afford to keep him around. Otherwise he can take a lateral move to a HS coach somewhere local, so long as he can avoid the recruiting violations.

[mUUser]

Ty Freaking Detmer was just fired by BYU. Does Aaron Roderick get the gig?

Edit: Sorry. Just relieved of his OC duties. Not fired. Not sure what else he was doing. QB coach?!


Won't matter. As long as Sitake is the HC it will continue to be a dumpster fire.

[U-Ute]

Twitter is saying 'fired'

935205963044241408

[U-Ute]

It is nice to see that Sitake has brought the tradition of firing OC's to BYU.

[NorthwestUteFan]

It is nice to see that Sitake has brought the tradition of firing OC's to BYU.On the other hand, he now gets to hire his first OC.

[UTEopia]

On the other hand, he now gets to hire his first OC.
He really needs to dump Mahe, Cahoon and Emory. There is a reason Bronco fired Cahoon and Empey

[NorthwestUteFan]

And follow it up by firing Tom Holmoe for so badly botching the Ken Niumatololo interview.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

He really needs to dump Mahe, Cahoon and Emory. There is a reason Bronco fired Cahoon and Empey

So how does Empey, Jr feel that he redirected his chance to play for a P5 so he could go to Provo to play for his dad for one season. Oops.


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[NorthwestUteFan]

Meh. BYU students and fans already justify plenty of garbage. This will be used as a faith promoting story about how he avoided the evil temptations of playing football on Sundays.

[U-Ute]

Happy Festivus Eve everyone.

-6mcOkR6xEs


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

946156256007303170


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[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Looks like ARod has paid the price of Provo employment.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171228/dfb8ef9c494791532efaf1315eb8832f.jpg


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[mUUser]

946156256007303170


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Rearranging chairs won’t do much. This is Kalani’s team, and he seems lost.

[UTEopia]

Rearranging chairs won’t do much. This is Kalani’s team, and he seems lost.

Well at least he got to hire these guys as opposed to those headed out the door. They also have much more experience. Whether that makes a difference remains to be seen.

[Scorcho]

Looks like ARod has paid the price of Provo employment.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171228/dfb8ef9c494791532efaf1315eb8832f.jpg


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someone get arod a shake weight for that pic

[Utebiquitous]

I"d sure love to get Empey back with his father now out. I've got to imagine he's feeling some serious regret.