I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

[USS Utah]

Look at the masses, frothing at the mouth ... anxious, overwhelmed, excited and antsy. Desperate to demonstrate poise in the face of their pitiful, pious pandering to the deep seeded insecurities brought to a boil, just under the surface. What a glorious spectacle. Long live the rivalry, and the games to be played—you all should be saying joyfully. For without it, Utah is nothing more than the new Oregon State.

A mass of 7 people at a message board.

Oh damn, I just posted in this thread.

[Brian]

We started playing football waaaaaaay before 1970, so by definition, that makes us big brother.
but then the honor code thing is pretty big brother, so you may have us there.

[tooblue]

Well, little brother kicked the shit out of BYU on it's home floor this year. I know because I watched it on TV. Were you able to watch the game?

Of course I was able to watch the game. BYU was playing. They have no trouble getting their games on national TV, available in all markets.

[Brian]

Of course I was able to watch the game. BYU was playing. They have no trouble getting their games on national TV, available in all markets.

ZING!!!!!
keep 'em coming!
you can't spell tooblue without tool.

[tooblue]

and you can't spell Brian without brain, rain, air, ban, bran, nib, bin, bar, rib ...

[Brian]

and you can't spell Brian without brain, rain, air, ban, bran, nib, bin, bar, rib ...

but you can spell it without sum

[tooblue]

but you can spell it without sum

I guess. Doesn't change the fact that the sum of all this is: Utah is—at best—the new Oregon State.

[Brian]

I guess. Doesn't change the fact that the sum of all this is: Utah is—at best—the new Oregon State.

you can spell Oregon State without a ball-peen hammer (assuming you have a pencil and some paper).
you can also build a moped from a reasonably suitable collection of atoms.

[Utah]

Utah won 70% of their football games vs BYU before Lavell.

Since Lavell has retired, Utah has won..........70% of their football games vs BYU.

This isn't a rivalry. Rivalries go back and forth. This is nothing more than an amazing coach showing up when Utah was down.

It's almost as pathetic as Utah State fan talking about Utah as a rival after they beat us once in 10+ years.

It's cute.

[tooblue]

Since Ute fans seem to be struggling with this whole rival thing, and it's evident a made-up rival in Colorado isn't working, here's a neat app that might help you find a new match ...

Chinese zodiac matchmaking guide:

http://graphics.latimes.com/chinese-new-year/

[Utah]

Some interesting numbers:

Before Lavell showed up, the record was 41-8-4, with Utah winning 77% of the time.

After Lavell was coach, but before Mac showed up, The record was 2-16, with Utah winning 11% of the time.

Once Lavell coached vs Mac, the record was 5-6, with Utah winning 46% of the time.

Since Lavell has retired, the record is 13-4, with Utah winning, wait, what's this? 76% of the time?

Lol at BYU fan. You have your twenty year blip, that ended close to 20 years ago. Does BYU fan realize the last time BYU was significantly better than Utah, hardly any of their athletes were even ALIVE?

Man, that sucks for BYU fan. No wonder they have so much pent up anger. BYU fan has become Wyoming fan, who "thinks" they have a rival in BYU, when in reality, BYU doesn't compare themselves to Wyoming.

Utah has moved on. We didn't play BYU and had our best year ever in the PAC-12. Ranked, three top 10 athletic programs, football ranked.

We compare ourselves to USC, UCLA, Oregon, ASU, Arizona. Not BYU. Yeah, we don't have a hated filled rival in the PAC-12...yet.

But a lot of fans are having the same feelings towards ASU, Arizona and OSU that we once had vs BYU.

Once those feelings take root, BYU fan won't even have this thread anymore.

Again, that's just sad for BYU.

But, BYU will have a robust rivalry with Utah State, so good on ya.

[mUUser]

Hi, I'm internet troll Rob Lowe, and I have cable.


Ha. I can't get enough of that campaign. Crazy hairy Rob Lowe with a comb stuck in his back. Tooblue as internet troll Rob Lowe. Classic.

[tooblue]

Some interesting numbers:

Before Lavell showed up, the record was 41-8-4, with Utah winning 77% of the time.

After Lavell was coach, but before Mac showed up, The record was 2-16, with Utah winning 11% of the time.

Once Lavell coached vs Mac, the record was 5-6, with Utah winning 46% of the time.

Since Lavell has retired, the record is 13-4, with Utah winning, wait, what's this? 76% of the time?

Lol at BYU fan. You have your twenty year blip, that ended close to 20 years ago. Does BYU fan realize the last time BYU was significantly better than Utah, hardly any of their athletes were even ALIVE?

Man, that sucks for BYU fan. No wonder they have so much pent up anger. BYU fan has become Wyoming fan, who "thinks" they have a rival in BYU, when in reality, BYU doesn't compare themselves to Wyoming.

Utah has moved on. We didn't play BYU and had our best year ever in the PAC-12. Ranked, three top 10 athletic programs, football ranked.

We compare ourselves to USC, UCLA, Oregon, ASU, Arizona. Not BYU. Yeah, we don't have a hated filled rival in the PAC-12...yet.

But a lot of fans are having the same feelings towards ASU, Arizona and OSU that we once had vs BYU.

Once those feelings take root, BYU fan won't even have this thread anymore.

Again, that's just sad for BYU.

But, BYU will have a robust rivalry with Utah State, so good on ya.

So, I guess the irony of positing the above in a thread about BYU is lost on you ... lol .... Utah: the new Oregon State!

[tooblue]

At least you were invited to help pay of the limo, I'll give you that. Good on ya for dreaming big. Utah: the new Oregon State!

[Rocker Ute]

I guess. Doesn't change the fact that the sum of all this is: Utah is—at best—the new Oregon State.

I know this is meant as an insult, and I guess it is, but if I sit here and think about if I had only the choice of having a program like Oregon State today or BYU today that is a pretty big no-brainer. Even Oregon State is on a better trajectory than BYU.

As for me, I don't really care if we play BYU or not, with the caveat that I am always concerned that over-amped BYU players are going to play at 'the edge' of the rules as they've admitted they do, and hurt one of our guys.

One last thing: I know lots of Utah fans who say they don't want to play BYU anymore, I know of no BYU fans who feel the same way. If there is one thing that gets a BYU fan riled up more than saying that, I don't know what it is. The fact that it captures your attention and your best trolling abilities tells me that deep down in your fan's tender little hearts it hurts quite a bit to see the tail lights of the Utah bus leaving you behind.

[UBlender]

At least you were invited to help pay of the limo, I'll give you that. Good on ya for dreaming big. Utah: the new Oregon State!

Against my better judgment, please go ahead and post the last time Oregon State was ranked in both major sports. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

[Scorcho]

One of the best things about this thread is watching tooblue's angst. I vote to keep this thread

[LA Ute]

Look at the masses, frothing at the mouth ... anxious, overwhelmed, excited and antsy. Desperate to demonstrate poise in the face of their pitiful, pious pandering to the deep seeded insecurities brought to a boil, just under the surface. What a glorious spectacle. Long live the rivalry, and the games to be played—you all should be saying joyfully. For without it, Utah is nothing more than the new Oregon State.

It's wonderful to watch an artist in action.

1399

[Scorcho]

Since 2000 Oregon St. football is 3rd in PAC 12 wins behind Oregon and USC. I'm not sure I mind being called Oregon St.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Since 2000 Oregon St. football is 3rd in PAC 12 wins behind Oregon and USC. I'm not sure I mind being called Oregon St.

Since 2000 Oregon State has 1x3-win season, 4x5-win seasons, 2x7-win seasons, 3x8-win seasons, 3x9-win seasons, 1x10-win season, and an 11-win season where a 3-point loss to the Huskies (#3 in the nation) was all that kept them out of the BCS title game (and they obliterated Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl).

Mitt Romney lost, the Mormon Moment is over, and byu fans are relegated to throwing blindside punches Kai Nacua-style after losing a shitty bowl game to a future conference mate (after The Brethren fire Tom Holmoe and accept their future as an AAC member).

[NorthwestUteFan]

Further, it seems the 10- and 11- win byu teams can beat up on the 3- and 5-win Oregon State teams, but they get crushed when The Beavers are any stronger than that.

Not sure this is the best comparison to use as a slam.

[sancho]

Since 2000 Oregon State has 1x3-win season, 4x5-win seasons, 2x7-win seasons, 3x8-win seasons, 3x9-win seasons, 1x10-win season, and an 11-win season where a 3-point loss to the Huskies (#3 in the nation) was all that kept them out of the BCS title game (and they obliterated Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl).


I think the point is that, in spite of all the good things OSU has done, nobody knows or cares about that program or university. In that sense, tooblue is right -- every P5 program other than 20 or so bluebloods is essentially Oregon State. Arizona, WSU, Iowa, Iowa State, Duke, Mississippi, Vandy - they are all Oregon State.

Along the same lines, BYU is essentially San Diego State. In the G5, there's Boise State and then everyone else.

[Rocker Ute]

Since 2000 Oregon State has 1x3-win season, 4x5-win seasons, 2x7-win seasons, 3x8-win seasons, 3x9-win seasons, 1x10-win season, and an 11-win season where a 3-point loss to the Huskies (#3 in the nation) was all that kept them out of the BCS title game (and they obliterated Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl).

Mitt Romney lost, the Mormon Moment is over, and byu fans are relegated to throwing blindside punches Kai Nacua-style after losing a shitty bowl game to a future conference mate (after The Brethren fire Tom Holmoe and accept their future as an AAC member).

Puget with the nuclear option post FTW.

[tooblue]

Since 2000 Oregon State has 1x3-win season, 4x5-win seasons, 2x7-win seasons, 3x8-win seasons, 3x9-win seasons, 1x10-win season, and an 11-win season where a 3-point loss to the Huskies (#3 in the nation) was all that kept them out of the BCS title game (and they obliterated Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl).

Mitt Romney lost, the Mormon Moment is over, and byu fans are relegated to throwing blindside punches Kai Nacua-style after losing a shitty bowl game to a future conference mate (after The Brethren fire Tom Holmoe and accept their future as an AAC member).

LOL Mitt Romney smack? Man, I really struck a chord for you to dig that deep. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... Awesome Northwest, just awesome. You do know that Holmoe is on the basketball selection committee this year don't you?

[LA Ute]

You're still not making sense.


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[Diehard Ute]

You're still not making sense.


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He's just following the lead of his coaches

[tooblue]

You're still not making sense.


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When the Utes end up with a six or seven seed and in the same region with Kentucky, you'll have no one else to blame but yourselves ... Especially NorthwestUteFan.

[Rocker Ute]

When the Utes end up with a six or seven seed and in the same region with Kentucky, you'll have no one else to blame but yourselves ... Especially NorthwestUteFan.

We've switched to basketball and low seed smack now apparently... okay.

That reminds me of a few years back when BYU got an 8 seed and there was great weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth among the BYU faithful of this apparently great slight. General accusations of bigotry along with attempts to establish ancestry to Lilburn Boggs, or even worse Chris Hill, among the selection committee was rampant. It is hard to remember which year this actually was, as BYU has made it a tradition to get the 8 seed and lose in the first round. One thing is for sure, with the exception of Jimmermania (a time when even BYU fans couldn't see the irony of people selling something called a 'Jimmer Hat'), you can set your watch to BYU exiting earlier than expected in the tournament.

Your fearless homer, Dick Harmon, wrote an impassioned article about how BYU deserved to be so much higher of a seed. Then, of course, BYU proceeded to go out and lose. After which Harmon still wouldn't relent on the appropriateness of the seeding. I wrote him an email that simply said, "Dear Mr Harmon, your arguments would hold more water had BYU actually won their game." That was it.

In return I got an email from him laying out in great detail why his arguments were still valid. It was so long I'm certain it would have filled four pages printed. I'm also certain it was not a mass response unless he had set up a pretty sophisticated macro that included references to me by name and apparently some research he had done about me online.

It was then I realized that a favored tactic to win an argument among BYU fans has nothing to do with actual rational facts, rather they just bury you in sheer volume and by simply bulldogging it.

You've done a great job these past 24 hours, I tip my hat to you.

[tooblue]

We've switched to basketball and low seed smack now apparently... okay.

That reminds me of a few years back when BYU got an 8 seed and there was great weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth among the BYU faithful of this apparently great slight. General accusations of bigotry along with attempts to establish ancestry to Lilburn Boggs, or even worse Chris Hill, among the selection committee was rampant. It is hard to remember which year this actually was, as BYU has made it a tradition to get the 8 seed and lose in the first round. One thing is for sure, with the exception of Jimmermania (a time when even BYU fans couldn't see the irony of people selling something called a 'Jimmer Hat'), you can set your watch to BYU exiting earlier than expected in the tournament.

Your fearless homer, Dick Harmon, wrote an impassioned article about how BYU deserved to be so much higher of a seed. Then, of course, BYU proceeded to go out and lose. After which Harmon still wouldn't relent on the appropriateness of the seeding. I wrote him an email that simply said, "Dear Mr Harmon, your arguments would hold more water had BYU actually won their game." That was it.

In return I got an email from him laying out in great detail why his arguments were still valid. It was so long I'm certain it would have filled four pages printed. I'm also certain it was not a mass response unless he had set up a pretty sophisticated macro that included references to me by name and apparently some research he had done about me online.

It was then I realized that a favored tactic to win an argument among BYU fans has nothing to do with actual rational facts, rather they just bury you in sheer volume and by simply bulldogging it.

You've done a great job these past 24 hours, I tip my hat to you.

Like I said, it started with NorthWestUteFan. He went with Mitt Romney smack. I'm just following that to it's natural conclusion. Besides, somebody's gotta play Kentucky. And we will know it's their year when Utah ends up in their region.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Like I said, it started with NorthWestUteFan. He went with Mitt Romney smack. I'm just following that to it's natural conclusion. Besides, somebody's gotta play Kentucky. And we will know it's their year when Utah ends up in their region.

I didn't start it, I merely counterpunched in a failing effort to help you break through the compartmentalization obscuring and defeating your rational and cognitive abilities in this area.

[tooblue]

I didn't start it, I merely counterpunched in a failing effort to help you break through the compartmentalization obscuring and defeating your rational and cognitive abilities in this area.

From Mitt Romney smack to I'm smart and you're dumb smack. Brilliant. And the thread about a team nobody cares about or wants to play in the future goes on ... I'm sorry I never fully appreciated the existential threat Mitt Romney obviously represents to you. I'll be more sensitive of it in the future. But the pox on Utah's 2015 tournament fate is on you. Somebody's gotta play Kentucky.

Utah: at best the new Oregon State. At worst, the new Wazzu!

[NorthwestUteFan]

I see you are completely ignoring the Kai Nacua Sucker Punch and the No Decent Conference Wants You smack. I look forward to the announcement of games against Sacred Heart, Robert Morris (careful, they might beat you), and Sisters of the Holy Hand Grenade.

But that is unkind of me. Even the Oral Roberts 'University' of the West deserves fans, and I am glad that you oblige.

[tooblue]

I see you are completely ignoring the Kai Nacua Sucker Punch and the No Decent Conference Wants You smack. I look forward to the announcement of games against Sacred Heart, Robert Morris (careful, they might beat you), and Sisters of the Holy Hand Grenade.

But that is unkind of me. Even the Oral Roberts 'University' of the West deserves fans, and I am glad that you oblige.

That's more like it.


http://www.hulu.com/watch/753531#i0,p0,d2

Utah: the new zombeavers!

[sancho]

Utah: at best the new Oregon State. At worst, the new Wazzu!

OSU and WSU are the same team. There are only 5 teams in college football:

Alabama (Michigan, ND, FSU, etc fit here)
Oregon State (WSU, Utah, Wisconsin, South Carolina, etc fit here)
Boise St (alone)
San Diego State (BYU, Colorado State, Tulane, etc fit here)
Troy (the Sun Belt goes here)

[NorthwestUteFan]

That's more like it.


http://www.hulu.com/watch/753531#i0,p0,d2

Utah: the new zombeavers!

Our new friends are more fun than our old geographically-assigned friends from the old ward paradigm. The sooner Utah fans recognize and agree to this the better (assuming the media will allow it to happen).

I will accept that this thread title is unfortunate, but I want to keep it open because the taste of schadenfreude is umami. And we need that to balance the sweet, the bitter, the salty, and the sour.

[Rocker Ute]

See I don't know that BYU is really so much a 'has-been' rival as it is more of an ex-wife. We have a semi-amicable and semi-putrid relationship and our kids keep forcing us to interact at times. We both think of each other regularly, we remember the good times but can't get past the bad times, yes there is still pain. We are still going to have to attend various recitals and parent/teacher conferences together for the foreseeable future, and we are still going to think about each other a lot. But there is no going back.

BYU, the jilted lover, is going to go it alone occasionally flirting and attempting to date someone new, but finding again and again they aren't in a truly equal relationship with their beau and in most cases can be considered a slump-buster at best. Moving from denial, to rage, to resignation and back again, they'll blame Utah for their current state while also noting that they are starting to sag in critical areas. Moral victories are all they have left, so they'll cling to those wherever they can. Utah found the trophy wife with the personality, money, beauty and brains that also requires us to take off our overalls and wear slacks to parties every once in a while. Some may think we've out punted our coverage, but what good man hasn't? None of our common friends will want to declare a winner in the situation, although it is quite clear who it is.

Some of our friends will also wonder what ever happened and why we can't get back together again, but we both know why, and frankly so do they. But that isn't going to stop us from cracking jokes about our ex at every chance we get.

[Utah]

OSU and WSU are the same team. There are only 5 teams in college football:

Alabama (Michigan, ND, FSU, etc fit here)
Oregon State (WSU, Utah, Wisconsin, South Carolina, etc fit here)
Boise St (alone)
San Diego State (BYU, Colorado State, Tulane, etc fit here)
Troy (the Sun Belt goes here)

This is interesting. I'd put the categories like this:

The top: Ohio St, Alabama, USC, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida St. They're just better.

The pseudo top: Florida, LSU, Penn St, Auburn, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Miami, Georgia. These teams aren't quite the top, and some have recently fallen out of the top (ND, Nebraska).

Fighting up: Oregon, UCLA, Texas A&M, Mich St, Wisconsin, TCU. These teams have the foundation to be the top (location, facilities, etc) but need history to get there. Wisconsin and Nebraska are funny teams. Due to their location, in 10 years I'd bet they would both fall to the next group (also, Oregon and Michigan St could easily fall as well):

The overcomes: these teams "could" win a national title, but their location (ie, lack of local recruits) make that less of a reality. Again, Nebraska, Wisonsin, Michigan St and Oregon are closer to this than the top. Other teams: Tenn, Missouri, South Carolina, Arkansas, Mississippi Schools, Washington, ASU, Arizona, Utah, Cal, Stanford, Colorado, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok State, Clemson, NC State.

The other P5: these teams are P5 and technically could win it all but probably won't. These are the teams that dream of bowl games and 8 win seasons: every other P5 school including Oregon State and Washington St.

The Pretenders: these guys think they can win it all, but actually have zero chance. TCU and Utah used to be here: BYU, Boise St, East Carolina.

The irrelevance: the rest of football.

What think ye?

[NorthwestUteFan]

Rocker makes a good analogy with the jilted ex-wife comparison, but it goes a few steps further.

Utah not only got rid of the old dead wood and picked up a hot new partner, but Utah also got the former partner's dream job and thirty-fold salary increase and a new group of friends, the weakest of whom is still better than the old partner on nearly any given day.

[tooblue]

Interesting:

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/2203391-155/utah-byu-appear-to-be-working

Now y'all can continue to profess how much you don't want the Utes to play BYU, and still feed your fragile psyches by watching the Utes play BYU. It's like having your cake and eating it too. Basically, sports heaven.

[Ma'ake]

Rocker, that was pure poetry, brother. Pretty damn funny stuff. And too true.

After one year of detoxing from playing BYU in football, I'm thinking things would be perfectly fine if we never played them again. That marriage really was the "bad old days".

Maybe an occasional series is OK, but if Hill and Holmoe can't get something worked out, I'll be more upset with Hill about not fixing leaks in the swimming pool.

The toxicity in our lives as sports fans has dropped immensely, THANK YOU AGAIN LARRY SCOTT.

I don't think I could even name all the teams in the WCC, but I do know BYU has dropped some games they thought they'd win, in the process stirring up animosity from conference mates who are pushing back against BYU's superiority complex.

The fans in both the PAC and the WCC would likely agree the BYU-Utah dysfunctional relationship was more about BYU and less about Utah. BYU scores much higher on the hate scale in their new league than Utah does in the PAC, and that's with Utah having done much better, ie, providing a reason for PAC teams to not like us, so much.

To fans all over the WCC: "I can name that tune in ONE NOTE!!!"

When you think about, it's a pretty remarkable talent to not do so well in competition, and still have people resent you even more, even more so when you lose.

Teams all over the west, in the old WAC, in the MWC, completely know what WCC fans are going through.

[Rocker Ute]

Interesting:

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/2203391-155/utah-byu-appear-to-be-working

Now y'all can continue to profess how much you don't want the Utes to play BYU, and still feed your fragile psyches by watching the Utes play BYU. It's like having your cake and eating it too. Basically, sports heaven.

Unrelated, but I swear my home teachers always ask me if they can visit when they know I'm going to be out of town. I suspect it is so they can say, "We made a good faith effort."

[NorthwestUteFan]

Interesting:

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/2203391-155/utah-byu-appear-to-be-working

Now y'all can continue to profess how much you don't want the Utes to play BYU, and still feed your fragile psyches by watching the Utes play BYU. It's like having your cake and eating it too. Basically, sports heaven.

In a way it would be nice to have one more guaranteed win and one more home game on the schedule every year.

[Mormon Red Death]

Interesting:

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/2203391-155/utah-byu-appear-to-be-working

Now y'all can continue to profess how much you don't want the Utes to play BYU, and still feed your fragile psyches by watching the Utes play BYU. It's like having your cake and eating it too. Basically, sports heaven.
The word is that the first game will be in slc, the second in Vegas, the third in slc then the fourth in provo.

[Mormon Red Death]

Oh and the fourth has a cheap buyout

[NorthwestUteFan]

Oh and the fourth has a cheap buyout

So in other words, it is identical the Notre Dame contract.

[tooblue]

Rocker, that was pure poetry, brother. Pretty damn funny stuff. And too true.

After one year of detoxing from playing BYU in football, I'm thinking things would be perfectly fine if we never played them again. That marriage really was the "bad old days".

Maybe an occasional series is OK, but if Hill and Holmoe can't get something worked out, I'll be more upset with Hill about not fixing leaks in the swimming pool.

The toxicity in our lives as sports fans has dropped immensely, THANK YOU AGAIN LARRY SCOTT.

I don't think I could even name all the teams in the WCC, but I do know BYU has dropped some games they thought they'd win, in the process stirring up animosity from conference mates who are pushing back against BYU's superiority complex.

The fans in both the PAC and the WCC would likely agree the BYU-Utah dysfunctional relationship was more about BYU and less about Utah. BYU scores much higher on the hate scale in their new league than Utah does in the PAC, and that's with Utah having done much better, ie, providing a reason for PAC teams to not like us, so much.

To fans all over the WCC: "I can name that tune in ONE NOTE!!!"

When you think about, it's a pretty remarkable talent to not do so well in competition, and still have people resent you even more, even more so when you lose.

Teams all over the west, in the old WAC, in the MWC, completely know what WCC fans are going through.

lol ... OK, wait. You don't know the names of the schools in the WCC but you somehow know BYU is stirring up animosity from conference mates? Do you write for Mother Jones, or are you UB5's Brain Williams?

[Rocker Ute]

Do you write for Mother Jones, or are you UB5's Brain Williams?

Brain Williams

1400

[LA Ute]

lol ... OK, wait. You don't know the names of the schools in the WCC but you somehow know BYU is stirring up animosity from conference mates? Do you write for Mother Jones, or are you UB5's Brain Williams?

Them's fightin' words. You attack Ma'ake, you attack us all. Prepare yourself for battle, sir. (You might start by getting out from under that bridge.)

[Ma'ake]

lol ... OK, wait. You don't know the names of the schools in the WCC but you somehow know BYU is stirring up animosity from conference mates? Do you write for Mother Jones, or are you UB5's Brain Williams?

This is like saying "if you can't name all the schools in the SEC in 20 seconds, anything you say about the SEC lacks merit". For the sake of your family - who presumably depend on your cognitive skills to put bread on the table - I hope you've got a stronger mental game at your day job.

I spend a lot more time watching what happens in the PAC than I do the WCC, but that I found in 5 minutes of casual browsing multiple angry opinions from WCC fans about BYU is notable... and easily predicted, in 2010.

As the tables have turned, and especially as Utah does well, BYU fans get quickly irritated and a sense of desperation seeps in, the sense of being left behind... an attitude that has unintended consequences.

If BYU beats any given team in the WCC (except Gonzaga and St. Marys), it's expected, the feat is not highly regarded. If they get beat by one of those other WCC teams, it's proof everything is horrible, the conference's gymnasiums are criticized, BYU's situation is undeserved, the coach might need to be replaced, etc.

BYU in the WCC is like the wife of a wall street crook who goes to prison for insider trading and she's forced to live among "the commoners". While you try to be nice, you can't help but criticize the yards in the new neighborhood, and complain that life is just unbearable having to drive a Toyota, that you really deserve a Bentley, and life is so hard without hired help.

Normally when a school loses, its fans take a lower profile and hope for better outcomes in the future. When BYU fans lose, they become more offensive, in a condescending way.

Look, nobody would expect *you* to understand this phenomenon, but if I were speaking in front of a wide cross section of fans from teams in the West, I'd be getting a lot of nods, and "yeah, no doubt!"s

[sancho]

Only tangentially related: one of my co-workers is a Gonzaga fan. He desperately wants to see the Zags join the MWC because there are so many more good programs there. Would that make sense for Gonzaga and/or the MWC financially? It would be a pretty strong basketball conference with UNLV, Gonzaga, UNM, SDSU, Boise, USU, and CSU.

[utefan]

This is like saying "if you can't name all the schools in the SEC in 20 seconds, anything you say about the SEC lacks merit". For the sake of your family - who presumably depend on your cognitive skills to put bread on the table - I hope you've got a stronger mental game at your day job.

I spend a lot more time watching what happens in the PAC than I do the WCC, but that I found in 5 minutes of casual browsing multiple angry opinions from WCC fans about BYU is notable... and easily predicted, in 2010.

As the tables have turned, and especially as Utah does well, BYU fans get quickly irritated and a sense of desperation seeps in, the sense of being left behind... an attitude that has unintended consequences.

If BYU beats any given team in the WCC (except Gonzaga and St. Marys), it's expected, the feat is not highly regarded. If they get beat by one of those other WCC teams, it's proof everything is horrible, the conference's gymnasiums are criticized, BYU's situation is undeserved, the coach might need to be replaced, etc.

BYU in the WCC is like the wife of a wall street crook who goes to prison for insider trading and she's forced to live among "the commoners". While you try to be nice, you can't help but criticize the yards in the new neighborhood, and complain that life is just unbearable having to drive a Toyota, that you really deserve a Bentley, and life is so hard without hired help.

Normally when a school loses, its fans take a lower profile and hope for better outcomes in the future. When BYU fans lose, they become more offensive, in a condescending way.

Look, nobody would expect *you* to understand this phenomenon, but if I were speaking in front of a wide cross section of fans from teams in the West, I'd be getting a lot of nods, and "yeah, no doubt!"s
Great post, and so true.

Funny thing that is completely true... Earlier this season when BYU was playing some team, I can't remember who, I happened to be flipping through the channels and noticed BYU on TV, losing at the time. So before I changed it to something else, I thought to myself, "I doubt there are very many people who aren't fans of a WCC team and know all the team nicknames in that conference."

You took it a step further and you're absolutely right. I can't even name all the schools in that conference, let alone all the nicknames.

Everyone knows UCLA is the Bruins, Washington is the Huskies, etc. Can anyone say the same about Pepperdine or the rest of the WCC?

Even the MWC has more name recognition than the WCC.

[sancho]

You took it a step further and you're absolutely right. I can't even name all the schools in that conference, let alone all the nicknames.


I bet I can do it. Gonzaga Bulldogs, St Mary's Gaels, BYU Provos, Pepperdine Wave?, San Francisco Dons, Santa Clara Mustangs, Loyola Marymount ?????, Portland Pilots?, San Diego Toreros,

Nope, I couldn't do it. I can't believe I can't remember what Loyola is? Some kind of big cat probably. And I'm certain I'll feel dumb when I look it up to see which team I am forgetting.



Even the MWC has more name recognition than the WCC.

I should hope so, the MWC is a far better conference.

[sancho]

And I'm certain I'll feel dumb when I look it up to see which team I am forgetting.


Pacific. Duh. I would not have remembered that they are the Tigers.

I've heard that they exist, but I've never met a BYU fan who is proud of the WCC. Everyone I meet is honest and admits that BYU threw basketball under the bus in order to go indy in football.

[USS Utah]

Them's fightin' words. You attack Ma'ake, you attack us all. Prepare yourself for battle, sir. (You might start by getting out from under that bridge.)

You don't understand the rules, only BYU fans are allowed to attack, you know, because they're so much better than us.

[tooblue]

This is like saying "if you can't name all the schools in the SEC in 20 seconds, anything you say about the SEC lacks merit". For the sake of your family - who presumably depend on your cognitive skills to put bread on the table - I hope you've got a stronger mental game at your day job.

I spend a lot more time watching what happens in the PAC than I do the WCC, but that I found in 5 minutes of casual browsing multiple angry opinions from WCC fans about BYU is notable... and easily predicted, in 2010.

As the tables have turned, and especially as Utah does well, BYU fans get quickly irritated and a sense of desperation seeps in, the sense of being left behind... an attitude that has unintended consequences.

If BYU beats any given team in the WCC (except Gonzaga and St. Marys), it's expected, the feat is not highly regarded. If they get beat by one of those other WCC teams, it's proof everything is horrible, the conference's gymnasiums are criticized, BYU's situation is undeserved, the coach might need to be replaced, etc.

BYU in the WCC is like the wife of a wall street crook who goes to prison for insider trading and she's forced to live among "the commoners". While you try to be nice, you can't help but criticize the yards in the new neighborhood, and complain that life is just unbearable having to drive a Toyota, that you really deserve a Bentley, and life is so hard without hired help.

Normally when a school loses, its fans take a lower profile and hope for better outcomes in the future. When BYU fans lose, they become more offensive, in a condescending way.

Look, nobody would expect *you* to understand this phenomenon, but if I were speaking in front of a wide cross section of fans from teams in the West, I'd be getting a lot of nods, and "yeah, no doubt!"s

I think I hit the right buttons ;-)

And to be clear, I grew up among Utah's east side "Bently" fan base. So, believe me, I know what insufferable is: it flows north from the "Country Club" along Foothill Blvd. and stops at the south end of the Einer Nelson Field House. Where the best fair-weather fans in the nation adopt other teams traditions, while pretending their football program hasn't peaked ... and who believe getting into the PAC is something more than renting a condo in Newport beach. The reality is you're just fodder, there to pay other peoples mortgages.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Your problem with the Country Club crowd is your own fault for choosing to attend Highland. You always make the wrong choices in schools. Too bad you weren't as enlightened as the rest of the family (including in-laws) and instead chose Olympus.

Sancho, it is the Loyola Marymount Gatherses, after Hank Gathers, the greatest player in the past, present, and future of the West Coast Church Conference. (Actually it is the Lions). FWIW, try to watch the game between Loyola Marymount and Louisiana State from ~1990. Awesome game. Hank Gathers and Bo Kimble vs Shaquille O'Neal and Chris Jackson (Mahmoud Abdul Raouf). One of the all-time greatest games in NCAA history.

[LA Ute]

I think I hit the right buttons ;-)

And to be clear, I grew up among Utah's east side "Bently" fan base. So, believe me, I know what insufferable is: it flows north from the "Country Club" along Foothill Blvd. and stops at the south end of the Einer Nelson Field House. Where the best fair-weather fans in the nation adopt other teams traditions, while pretending their football program hasn't peaked ... and who believe getting into the PAC is something more than renting a condo in Newport beach. The reality is you're just fodder, there to pay other peoples mortgages.

Aw, shucks. Here we Utes are, one of only five schools with teams ranked in both football and basketball; challenging for the PAC-12 basketball title and a Final Four dark horse; a glossy 9-3 footbsll record with wins over USC, UCLA and Stanford; and you're ruining all that by reminding us that we're mere fodder. Curse you!

[Scorcho]

does the WCC even realize they are that great and abominable whore conference that fills the entire earth

:)

[Utah]

While pretending their football program hasn't peaked ... and who believe getting into the PAC is something more than renting a condo in Newport beach. The reality is you're just fodder, there to pay other peoples mortgages.

BwahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahaha!

I love these lines, coming from a school that has been in steady decline the last 20 years, and who is basically everyone's body bag game, willing to travel anywhere on any day because "you are partners with ESPN."

Classic.

Enjoy.

Here's BYU's P5 as an Indy:

@Ole Miss
@Texas
Utah
@Oregon St
@TCU
Wash St
@Utah
Oregon State
@ND
@GT
@Virginia
Texas
GT
@Wisc
@ND
@UConn
@Texas
Virginia
@Cal
@Neb
@UCLA
@Michigan
@Missouri

17 away games. 6 home games. *snicker* That schedule screams...Wyoming. He he.

"Program has peaked" and your "paying other people's mortgages". Classic. May be your best line yet. This will keep me laughing all through the winter. Might even carry me to the fall, when you've convinced yourself that you can 1- to undefeated (yeah, right), and 2- make the playoff in a system that guarantees you have no shot at the playoff. Priceless.

*que the "next year we will ___________ better than Utah. Next year..."*

Ha ha.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Your problem with the Country Club crowd is your own fault for choosing to attend Highland. You always make the wrong choices in schools. Too bad you weren't as enlightened as the rest of the family (including in-laws) and instead chose Olympus.


Eh tu, Brute?!

[LA Ute]

Eh tu, Brute?!

People who didn't attend Highland find many ways to deal with their feelings of inferiority and disenfrancisement. NWUF is just coping the best way he can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[USS Utah]

A tweet by someone called UteDaddy on twitter:


When it's all said and done it's not really the #Utes (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Utes?src=hash) or #BYU (https://twitter.com/hashtag/BYU?src=hash) who needs the rivalry more, it's the local media.

[concerned]

A tweet by someone called UteDaddy on twitter:

Truer words were never spoken.

[LA Ute]

Truer words were never spoken.

I'd bet the Utah sports news media are almost unanimous in wanting the rivalry game to continue.

[concerned]

not "almost." They even admit it drives ratings.

[Utebiquitous]

As a former media member I completely concur with these thoughts and it's disappointing. The SLC media are generally a lazy bunch - the television and radio media. I think the print guys work really hard and I appreciate their efforts. The broadcast media do not. Gone are the days when broadcast media tell really good stories consistently. What stories they do tell are fed to them by the SIDs at the respective schools.

There is no art anymore to the story-telling. Nothing is though-provoking. Nothing is beautiful. Nothing stands alone. I remember two pieces I watched Dave Fox and David James edit, respectively, back in '96 or '97. The James piece was an interview with Keith Van Horn following the Kentucky loss his senior year. It was raw, dripping with emotion, very little reporter involvement and a lot of just Keith talking and video of Keith and the Utes playing. I haven't seen David James do a piece like it in at least fifteen years. Dave Fox did a completely different story during the NBA playoffs one of those years. He took a photographer to Venice Beach and just picked up the sites and sounds of the place on a May/June afternoon. No reporter involvement - just pictures and sound. It ... was ... Awesome! It may have been the last good piece Fox ever edited. Fox was a master at video-editing. I learned an immense amount from him.

The SLC market wouldn't know that now. It's all just talk - and almost all talk turns to BYU-Utah comparisons. But my knowledge of the talent wasting away in the local stations makes it an even greater state of deprivation. Think of all the stories that could be told about our Pac-12 opponents, coaches and schools - the issues that could be tackled, the sites that could be seen and heard. Sorry - just needed a late-night lament.

[SoCalPat]

Apparently, Utah and BYU are in talks for extending the series for 2019 and 2020. BYU really wants the 2019 game to be played in November, coming on the heels of the 2018 game (SLC) that is also played in November. My feelings on playing BYU have been made clear on this board, but I am not a fan of playing them anywhere in November. Our motivation here is clear -- it's the end of the conference season and we're trying to establish a rivalry/tradition with Colorado. Those motivations trump BYU's motivation, which is to avoid a November home slate of Idahos and Savannah States.

Ideally, we play in September, but I would take October provided we had a bye week or a home game immediately following BYU.

Also, can we rip up the Northern Illinois contract and offer Utah State a 2-for-1, with the Aggies coming to SLC in 2018-19, with a trip to Logan in 2020? I am totally lost as to why we signed on for this series.

[Diehard Ute]

Apparently, Utah and BYU are in talks for extending the series for 2019 and 2020. BYU really wants the 2019 game to be played in November, coming on the heels of the 2018 game (SLC) that is also played in November. My feelings on playing BYU have been made clear on this board, but I am not a fan of playing them anywhere in November. Our motivation here is clear -- it's the end of the conference season and we're trying to establish a rivalry/tradition with Colorado. Those motivations trump BYU's motivation, which is to avoid a November home slate of Idahos and Savannah States.

Ideally, we play in September, but I would take October provided we had a bye week or a home game immediately following BYU.

Also, can we rip up the Northern Illinois contract and offer Utah State a 2-for-1, with the Aggies coming to SLC in 2018-19, with a trip to Logan in 2020? I am totally lost as to why we signed on for this series.

In the emails obtained by the Tribune Dr. Hill told Holmoe he had no interest in playing BYU in November and reiterated that the one November game was done solely as a favor to the Pac12.

[concerned]

Are we really trying to negotiate a 2019 game? BYU's schedule for the first three weeks of the season is filled up, as is the last weekend when Stanford or USC plays Notre Dame (Washington State). Hill must have known that when he sent the email, and must have known what the response would be. I interpreted his email as creating a paper trail to say "see, I tried" when the BYU - Utah State extension was announced and the media asked the inevitable question abut Utah-BYU. Hard to read that exchange as serious or even good faith negotiating.

[sancho]

Apparently, Utah and BYU are in talks for extending the series for 2019 and 2020. BYU really wants the 2019 game to be played in November, coming on the heels of the 2018 game (SLC) that is also played in November. My feelings on playing BYU have been made clear on this board, but I am not a fan of playing them anywhere in November. Our motivation here is clear -- it's the end of the conference season and we're trying to establish a rivalry/tradition with Colorado. Those motivations trump BYU's motivation, which is to avoid a November home slate of Idahos and Savannah States.

Ideally, we play in September, but I would take October provided we had a bye week or a home game immediately following BYU.

Also, can we rip up the Northern Illinois contract and offer Utah State a 2-for-1, with the Aggies coming to SLC in 2018-19, with a trip to Logan in 2020? I am totally lost as to why we signed on for this series.

I agree. There's no reason for us to be making arrangements with Utah State or Northern Illinois.

The BYU game is tricky. It always gets worked up into a huge, make-or-break the season type thing, and I don't like that happening in Sept or Oct. It's a tough loss to recover from, and it's a win that leads to a letdown the following week. I feel like it's a lot safer to have it at the end of the season. On the other hand, I hate helping BYU in any way, and they desperately need something in November. Plus, I'm starting to like the CU game at Thanksgiving time.

In any other bargaining situation, Utah would have a clear upper hand and would use it to an advantage. It seems like we want to play nice on this one due to our long history.

[SoCalPat]

I agree. There's no reason for us to be making arrangements with Utah State or Northern Illinois.

The BYU game is tricky. It always gets worked up into a huge, make-or-break the season type thing, and I don't like that happening in Sept or Oct. It's a tough loss to recover from, and it's a win that leads to a letdown the following week. I feel like it's a lot safer to have it at the end of the season. On the other hand, I hate helping BYU in any way, and they desperately need something in November. Plus, I'm starting to like the CU game at Thanksgiving time.

In any other bargaining situation, Utah would have a clear upper hand and would use it to an advantage. It seems like we want to play nice on this one due to our long history.

Let's change the first part of your sentence to, "In a non-playoff era ..." Because when your best non-con efforts for the next four years yield only Northern Illinois and San Jose State, you need quality non-con opponents on the schedule. And BYU is a million miles better than either of those schools.

We should've learned something from hoops scheduling last year. Weak non-conference scheduling can only hurt you. It can never help. Unless you don't care about making the postseason, you should always be scheduling to curry favor with the selection committee.

That's more vital at a school like Utah, where making the playoff should be viewed as a once-in-a-generation (every 20-25 years) accomplishment. You can't claim lack of foresight in weak non-con scheduling when that day comes -- no one will listen to you or have any sympathy for you. Now, if we get to a point where making the playoff or strongly contending for it becomes routine (once every 4-5 years), then you can let your reputation speak for itself. But we're not in that position now. We need a P5 school on the docket every year. Absent that, BYU far and away the next best option, and BYU knows that. They see our schedules too. And the committee made it clear in Year One that you cannot rest on the laurels of a nine-game conference slate.

[Utebiquitous]

I think that I've mentioned it here before - or somewhere - but I don't understand why Chris Hill can't create a rotating four-year schedule with BYU and USU where we're doing home-and-homes with both programs. Perhaps you play each team every other year either home or away or it's a two-on, two-off sort of thing. I'd really like to see one of them on our schedule each year. I like the in-state game. This satisfies SoCal's point to have a solid non-con opponent on the schedule and it somewhat quiets the in-state criticism that we're not behaving in good faith. Now this is easier said than done given our brothers to the south and to the north but hopefully within a few years something like this could develop.

I still love the idea of beginning the season with an in-state rivalry game. It would have a lot of build-up every year whether it was BYU or USU and, of course, we would be at the center of it.

[sancho]

We should've learned something from hoops scheduling last year. Weak non-conference scheduling can only hurt you. It can never help.

Maybe in basketball. In football, we have seen time and again over decades that weak non-conference scheduling can help immensely.


And BYU is a million miles better than either of those schools.

BYU has not been a better option in football than NIU or USU over the past few years. Still, I get the point. BYU is less likely to be an SOS anchor than the other two schools.


That's more vital at a school like Utah, where making the playoff should be viewed as a once-in-a-generation (every 20-25 years) accomplishment. You can't claim lack of foresight in weak non-con scheduling when that day comes -- no one will listen to you or have any sympathy for you.

A tough schedule is just as likely to kill our playoff chance in some year as it is to push us over the top. TCU and Baylor were both one tiny break away from a playoff, and they both had weak OOC schedules. OSU won the whole burrito, and they had a weak OOC schedule. The OOC schedule is always a gamble; sometimes the hard schedule pays off, and sometimes the weak schedule hits.


Absent that, BYU far and away the next best option, and BYU knows that.

Are you trying to imply that BYU has some leverage in these negotiations? BYU needs this badly. Your argument is coming down to SOS in case we are ever good enough to make the playoff, which is such a remote possibility that it makes no sense to say we need the BYU game. There is only one set of reasons why we need the BYU game - history, tradition, rivalry, and hate. If we were doing this for OOC schedule, Boise State has always looked for series with Pac-12 teams, and they offer a much larger SOS bump than BYU.

The Pac-12, like the SEC, will send any 0 or 1 loss team to the playoff for the foreseeable future, regardless of OOC schedule.

[sancho]

I still love the idea of beginning the season with an in-state rivalry game. It would have a lot of build-up every year whether it was BYU or USU and, of course, we would be at the center of it.

There's a reason FSU/Miami went away from that. Those games were hyped large every year, and every year the game was terribly ugly. If we're going to play BYU, let's play them once we have our legs under us.

As for USU, I see no reason why we should be making trips to Logan. If they want to come down to SLC every once in a while, fine.

[mUUser]

Love the comments section after any Utah-BYUP article in the newspaper. Poo flinging galore. Personally, I don't care if we schedule BYUP or not. I'm just as happy with Michigan, USU and Fresno instead, but SUU and North Dakota...Really?....that's just embarrassing.

[Utah]

Let's change the first part of your sentence to, "In a non-playoff era ..." Because when your best non-con efforts for the next four years yield only Northern Illinois and San Jose State, you need quality non-con opponents on the schedule. And BYU is a million miles better than either of those schools.

We should've learned something from hoops scheduling last year. Weak non-conference scheduling can only hurt you. It can never help. Unless you don't care about making the postseason, you should always be scheduling to curry favor with the selection committee.

That's more vital at a school like Utah, where making the playoff should be viewed as a once-in-a-generation (every 20-25 years) accomplishment. You can't claim lack of foresight in weak non-con scheduling when that day comes -- no one will listen to you or have any sympathy for you. Now, if we get to a point where making the playoff or strongly contending for it becomes routine (once every 4-5 years), then you can let your reputation speak for itself. But we're not in that position now. We need a P5 school on the docket every year. Absent that, BYU far and away the next best option, and BYU knows that. They see our schedules too. And the committee made it clear in Year One that you cannot rest on the laurels of a nine-game conference slate.

You keep bringing up OOC scheduling as needing to be tough, when that's not true at all. Utah needs as easy of an OOC schedule as possible.

Look at Ohio State: Navy, VT, Kent State, Cincinati. One P5 team. Horrible OOC.

Alabama: West Virginia, Florida Atl, Southern Miss, Western Carolina. One P5 team. Horrible OOC.

Florida State: Oklahoma St, Citadel, Notre Dame, Florida. Good OOC. 3 P5 teams. Yet Florida State was ripped all year for too "easy" a schedule.

TCU: Samford, Minnesota, SMU. One P5 team. Horrible OOC.

Baylor: SMU, Northwestern, Buffalo. Horrible OOC.

Only two teams in the top 6 had tough OOC schedules and it didn't help them at all. FSU was ripped for "too easy" of a schedule and Oregon played the toughest OOC yet weren't ranked #1.

There is a reason why Baylor and TCU laugh when they are told to beef up their OOC.

It's because it isn't smart. It isn't condusive to winning.

Winning teams play at home 7+ times a year and schedule down in OOC.

Beefing up Utah's OOC is the last thing they should be doing. Dumbing up Utah's OOC and having 7 home games every year should be the priority.

[concerned]

Agreed. Our goal in the near future is to make a bowl game, not to make the playoff. That can be difficult, especially when we only have four home conference games. We need to make sure we can get to 7 wins (6 not enough).

[Scratch]

Are we really trying to negotiate a 2019 game? BYU's schedule for the first three weeks of the season is filled up, as is the last weekend when Stanford or USC plays Notre Dame (Washington State). Hill must have known that when he sent the email, and must have known what the response would be. I interpreted his email as creating a paper trail to say "see, I tried" when the BYU - Utah State extension was announced and the media asked the inevitable question abut Utah-BYU. Hard to read that exchange as serious or even good faith negotiating.

I'm not so sure this is true, although it very well could be true. Scheduled games get moved all the time, and it's extemely common to suggest a game date when the other team already has a game scheduled on that date.

[concerned]

I'm not so sure this is true, although it very well could be true. Scheduled games get moved all the time, and it's extemely common to suggest a game date when the other team already has a game scheduled on that date.

Very true, but the email didn't say anything like that. Hill could have said: "we really want to try to work this out, but the only weeks we have available are already filled on your schedule. Would you be willing to try to move a game?"

[Scratch]

Very true, but the email didn't say anything like that. Hill could have said: "we really want to try to work this out, but the only weeks we have available are already filled on your schedule. Would you be willing to try to move a game?"

FWIW, I've seen a bunch of these emails between schools, and I've almost never seen that type of discussion. It's always or almost always one school tossing out dates, and then the other school saying they'll try to move games (if the new opportunity is worth trying to move the other dates).

[concerned]

FWIW, I've seen a bunch of these emails between schools, and I've almost never seen that type of discussion. It's always or almost always one school tossing out dates, and then the other school saying they'll try to move games (if the new opportunity is worth trying to move the other dates).


Those are not this situation. Everybody, especially Hill, knows how sensitive the issue is for many many fans. This cant be the first time they have discussed it out of the blue. 2019 and 2020 surely came up when they scheduled 2016-18, or since then. Holmoe has said many times he wants to play every year. He has said that that when the U wont commit, he cant wait for ever and has to fill up those dates with other teams. That is why to me Hill's email seems disingenuous to some extent. I just don't think we are trying to schedule them for 19 and 20, in part because we have said in the past we don't want to play it every year, and would be quite happy if it didn't work out. $0.02

[UBlender]

I think that I've mentioned it here before - or somewhere - but I don't understand why Chris Hill can't create a rotating four-year schedule with BYU and USU where we're doing home-and-homes with both programs. Perhaps you play each team every other year either home or away or it's a two-on, two-off sort of thing. I'd really like to see one of them on our schedule each year. I like the in-state game. This satisfies SoCal's point to have a solid non-con opponent on the schedule and it somewhat quiets the in-state criticism that we're not behaving in good faith. Now this is easier said than done given our brothers to the south and to the north but hopefully within a few years something like this could develop.

I still love the idea of beginning the season with an in-state rivalry game. It would have a lot of build-up every year whether it was BYU or USU and, of course, we would be at the center of it.

I am on board with the idea of rotating series with BYU and USU. The one part of this that I disagree with is that Utah can't do home and home with Utah State. I don't think it's realistic and would signal Utah struggling to leave behind its old G5 identity. Utah is P5 now and must act the part--if USU wants that game it needs to be in SLC almost every time. Heck, doesn't BYU have a 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 deal with USU? No way, Utah takes anything less.

[Scorcho]

Utah finished 2014 with the 11th toughest schedule in the country, despite having an OOC schedule against one of the worst Michigan teams in 100 years, a mediocre at best G5 team in Fresno St and Idaho St.

The PAC-12 is proving challenging enough, Utah simply doesn't need to upgrade it's OOC schedule.

[Scorcho]

Those are not this situation. Everybody, especially Hill, knows how sensitive the issue is for many many fans. This cant be the first time they have discussed it out of the blue. 2019 and 2020 surely came up when they scheduled 2016-18, or since then. Holmoe has said many times he wants to play every year. He has said that that when the U wont commit, he cant wait for ever and has to fill up those dates with other teams. That is why to me Hill's email seems disingenuous to some extent. I just don't think we are trying to schedule them for 19 and 20, in part because we have said in the past we don't want to play it every year, and would be quite happy if it didn't work out. $0.02

you could just as easily conclude that Holmoe is being disingenuous. Holmoe already knows that November and October games are out of the question, and yet he is trying to weasel his way in there.

Whitt has stated on several occasions that he doesn't want the BYU game during conference play.

[SoCalPat]

You keep bringing up OOC scheduling as needing to be tough, when that's not true at all. Utah needs as easy of an OOC schedule as possible.

Look at Ohio State: Navy, VT, Kent State, Cincinati. One P5 team. Horrible OOC.

Alabama: West Virginia, Florida Atl, Southern Miss, Western Carolina. One P5 team. Horrible OOC.

Florida State: Oklahoma St, Citadel, Notre Dame, Florida. Good OOC. 3 P5 teams. Yet Florida State was ripped all year for too "easy" a schedule.

TCU: Samford, Minnesota, SMU. One P5 team. Horrible OOC.

Baylor: SMU, Northwestern, Buffalo. Horrible OOC.

Only two teams in the top 6 had tough OOC schedules and it didn't help them at all. FSU was ripped for "too easy" of a schedule and Oregon played the toughest OOC yet weren't ranked #1.

There is a reason why Baylor and TCU laugh when they are told to beef up their OOC.

It's because it isn't smart. It isn't condusive to winning.

Winning teams play at home 7+ times a year and schedule down in OOC.

Beefing up Utah's OOC is the last thing they should be doing. Dumbing up Utah's OOC and having 7 home games every year should be the priority.

All of those schools you mentioned save Baylor had exactly what I'm looking for: One P5 opponent. Thanks for making my point for me.

FSU was ripped because the ACC was weak. It's non-conference schedule probably saved them.

We'll never know about Baylor, but we know its primary reason for missing the playoff that it could control for not getting in was its non-con sked.

[SoCalPat]

Utah finished 2014 with the 11th toughest schedule in the country, despite having an OOC schedule against one of the worst Michigan teams in 100 years, a mediocre at best G5 team in Fresno St and Idaho St.

The PAC-12 is proving challenging enough, Utah simply doesn't need to upgrade it's OOC schedule.

This past year's non-con sked or next year's has never been debated. It's what we have in following years. Where's the Michigan after 2015 on our schedule?

[SoCalPat]

Agreed. Our goal in the near future is to make a bowl game, not to make the playoff. That can be difficult, especially when we only have four home conference games. We need to make sure we can get to 7 wins (6 not enough).

Disagree. Our goal should be to win the South. Every year. I'll take a South crown (and the chance to play for more), one bowl year and three bowl-less years in every five as opposed to five years in which we go anywhere between 9-3 and 6-6.

[sancho]

I'll take a South crown (and the chance to play for more), one bowl year and three bowl-less years in every five as opposed to five years in which we go anywhere between 9-3 and 6-6.

Sure, and I'll take one national championship every decade in exchange for 6 years of famine. But it doesn't work like that, does it? We can say the goal is to win the south, but right now, to get to that goal, we need to climb a ladder.

[sancho]

All of those schools you mentioned save Baylor had exactly what I'm looking for: One P5 opponent. Thanks for making my point for me.


In that case, I think we are all on the same page. Every Ute fan around wants to have one P5 opponent on the schedule each year. Thanks again to USC for shooting down the greatest scheduling agreement in the history of college football. BYU is not a P5 team, though, so P5 on the schedule is not really relevant to the BYU question.



We'll never know about Baylor, but we know its primary reason for missing the playoff that it could control for not getting in was its non-con sked.

Yes, but maybe Baylor loses to that P5 and is not in the discussion at all. It's a two-edged sword.

[Scorcho]

This past year's non-con sked or next year's has never been debated. It's what we have in following years. Where's the Michigan after 2015 on our schedule?

a Michigan type OOC game isn't needed as long as the PAC-12 keeps 5-6 teams in the top 25 every year, and I don't see that changing. If the PAC-12 had an 8 game conference schedule then I could see adding a marque opponent.

[concerned]

you could just as easily conclude that Holmoe is being disingenuous. Holmoe already knows that November and October games are out of the question, and yet he is trying to weasel his way in there.

Whitt has stated on several occasions that he doesn't want the BYU game during conference play.

I think they are both being disingenous, each could have written the other's emails, they are just going through the motions and I doubt any real negotiation is going on.

[concerned]

Disagree. Our goal should be to win the South. Every year. I'll take a South crown (and the chance to play for more), one bowl year and three bowl-less years in every five as opposed to five years in which we go anywhere between 9-3 and 6-6.

Agree that our goal should be to win the South, but the OOC shedule doesnt have anything to do with that--only with a bowl game or playoff.

[SoCalPat]

a Michigan type OOC game isn't needed as long as the PAC-12 keeps 5-6 teams in the top 25 every year, and I don't see that changing. If the PAC-12 had an 8 game conference schedule then I could see adding a marque opponent.

The majority of the conference doesn't see it that way and is still getting one P5 on the schedule every year. Only the Washington schools and Arizona have non-con skeds post 2015 that resemble what Utah has. Everyone else is scheduling up.

[SoCalPat]

Agree that our goal should be to win the South, but the OOC shedule doesnt have anything to do with that--only with a bowl game or playoff.

Well, we should be scheduling OOC with a playoff in mind, not with being bowl eligible.

[sancho]

Well, we should be scheduling OOC with a playoff in mind, not with being bowl eligible.

I don't know. We missed bowl games for two years, and the mob was ready to get rid of one of the better coaches in the conference. Being bowl eligible matters a lot.

I think everyone would like the excitement of having a P5 on the schedule. It may or may not be the best thing to do in terms of bowl games or playoffs.

BYU is obviously a different question altogether. They are not a P5, so we don't get any points there. They are traditionally among the stronger G5, so we still get some SOS credit for playing them. With BYU, it really boils down to how much one values the tradition and rivalry.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Well, we should be scheduling OOC with a playoff in mind, not with being bowl eligible.

I want new experiences in the OOC games. The trip to Michigan this year was awesome.

I never want to see another FCS team on the schedule. It is a waste of a game. We can makw possible exceptions for local teams (Weber, SUU), but only very rarely.

I like the idea of rotating byup and USU. Play each one 4 times per decade. Playing either one annually is incredibly boring, and playing both the same year is even worse.

I wish we could buy out the SUU type games on the schedule. I would love to get some H-and-H series set up with ACC, SEC, Big-12 conference teams, even just the lower tier-teams. We might need to expand RES before bigger teams will come, but maybe they will follow Michigan's lead. Iowa State previously had a deal with us, but we had to buy out the return. Maybe Texas Tech or A&M would be interested. That way I could stay with relatives and go to the game.

I might like to see some of the old MWC/WAC foes on the schedule again. It was fun to see CSU again. It might be nice to play SDSU,

The one team we should be 'scared' to put on the schedule is Boise State. They just have Whitt's number for some reason.

If by some magical reason hell freezes over and The BYU of Provo gets invited to the Big-12 I still won't get excited about playing them.

[LA Ute]

With BYU, it really boils down to how much one values the tradition and rivalry.

You nailed it. That's why I am so ambivalent about the whole thing.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[utefan]

Out of conference schedule is not why Baylor or TCU didn't make the playoff. They were left out because they don't play a conference championship game.

There is no advantage to playing BYU. They're not a P5 school so they won't give us any credit for beating them. Every once in a while they might beat us, and that would be the same as losing to any other crappy G5 school as far as the playoff committee is concerned.

I'd rather play a real P5 school. And if we can't schedule one, which I doubt will ever be a problem, then just schedule a G5 school from a hot recruiting area.

[sancho]

Out of conference schedule is not why Baylor or TCU didn't make the playoff. They were left out because they don't play a conference championship game.


They were left out because their name is not The Ohio State University.

[SoCalPat]

Out of conference schedule is not why Baylor or TCU didn't make the playoff. They were left out because they don't play a conference championship game.

There is no advantage to playing BYU. They're not a P5 school so they won't give us any credit for beating them. Every once in a while they might beat us, and that would be the same as losing to any other crappy G5 school as far as the playoff committee is concerned.

I'd rather play a real P5 school. And if we can't schedule one, which I doubt will ever be a problem, then just schedule a G5 school from a hot recruiting area.

The ACC views BYU as a P5 school. Given how many Pac-12 teams are on BYU's schedule in the near future, I'd bet if a vote came up today amongst ADs on how to view BYU, it would overwhelmingly give BYU that status. Less certain is if such a vote would ever come up.

Five years into being in the Pac-12, we have all of one deal with a P5 school. From that, I can only draw two conclusions:

1. We're lousy negotiators. But since we didn't have this problem in the MWC, I can't wrap my arms around it.

2. It's deliberate. And I can't accept the watered-down non-con in a playoff era. There's zero justification for it unless, like I've said before, positioning your team to make the playoff just isn't that important. (Also, is Northern Illinois located in a "hot recruiting area"?)

To me, this debate isn't over unless one of two things happens: We see one P5 on the schedule annually, or BYU is recognized by our league as a P5 worthy team.

[UtahsMrSports]

I am confused by this debate......

A Utah team with an OOC slate of Southern utah, Nevada, and Iowa State (just three random teams, one P5 one G5 and one FCS) gets into the playoffs 100% of the time at 13-0 and 90-95% of the time at 12-1, assuming a conference championship game win.

Likewise, A Utah team with an OOC slate of Ohio State, Boise State, and TCU is likely on the bubble at absolute best at 11-2.

OOC is such a marginal part of this, Im really not sure why we are going back and forth on it.

[sancho]

2. It's deliberate. And I can't accept the watered-down non-con in a playoff era. There's zero justification for it unless, like I've said before, positioning your team to make the playoff just isn't that important. (Also, is Northern Illinois located in a "hot recruiting area"?)


I get the feeling you have decided to hunker down and defend this idea to the death. But it's just not true. Going easy on OOC appears to be a reasonable strategy to make the playoff. If FSU had lost any of those 6 games it should have lost, Baylor gets into the playoff. Mississippi State had the worst OOC schedule of anyone, but they were a lock for the playoff until they lost a 2nd SEC game. If Oregon had replaced Michigan State with Michigan Tech, they still would have been in the playoff.

That said, I do agree with you. I'd sacrifice our bowl chances in order to have one P5 or BYU/BSU on the schedule each year. I'm not sure that's what's best for the program, but as a fan, I'm greedy.

[utefan]

The ACC views BYU as a P5 school. Given how many Pac-12 teams are on BYU's schedule in the near future, I'd bet if a vote came up today amongst ADs on how to view BYU, it would overwhelmingly give BYU that status. Less certain is if such a vote would ever come up.

Five years into being in the Pac-12, we have all of one deal with a P5 school. From that, I can only draw two conclusions:

1. We're lousy negotiators. But since we didn't have this problem in the MWC, I can't wrap my arms around it.

2. It's deliberate. And I can't accept the watered-down non-con in a playoff era. There's zero justification for it unless, like I've said before, positioning your team to make the playoff just isn't that important. (Also, is Northern Illinois located in a "hot recruiting area"?)

To me, this debate isn't over unless one of two things happens: We see one P5 on the schedule annually, or BYU is recognized by our league as a P5 worthy team.
Nobody cares what the ACC says. They're just changing their stance on BYU (who they previously classified as a G5) because they took a lot of heat for a week schedule with Florida State. That and Notre Dame is halfway in their conference, so they threw BYU a bone.

The SEC has stated that BYU is a G5 school. I'm sure we can all agree that what the SEC says carries a lot more weight than what the ACC says.

I am totally fine with our scheduling. We play 9 conference games, plus a potential conference championship game. That is 10 P5 games. If we schedule another P5 team that's 11, which would put us at as many or more than anyone else.

BYU is not a P5 team. We'd get no more credit for beating them than we'd get for beating Houston, Memphis, San Diego State, Central Florida, or any other G5 school. And any of those schools bring the advantages of recruiting the area, plus they don't bring the alligator rolls, the questionable replay booth officials, and all the other baggage that comes with BYU.

We did not play BYU last year, and we would have absolutely been in the playoff if we'd won a few more games.

[Utah]

I am confused by this debate......

A Utah team with an OOC slate of Southern utah, Nevada, and Iowa State (just three random teams, one P5 one G5 and one FCS) gets into the playoffs 100% of the time at 13-0 and 90-95% of the time at 12-1, assuming a conference championship game win.

Likewise, A Utah team with an OOC slate of Ohio State, Boise State, and TCU is likely on the bubble at absolute best at 11-2.

OOC is such a marginal part of this, Im really not sure why we are going back and forth on it.

This. There is no debate. OOC scheduling in pretty close to 100% irrelevant.

How about this:

Since joining the PAC-12, Utah is one of three teams to have ZERO ESPN top 300 recruits sign with them.

Until we get kids like that, talking about playoffs is silly. Until we win 9+ most years and appear in the PAC-12 title game, we aren't getting kids like that.

We are sooooooo far away from needing to beef up our OOC schedule it's pathetic. It's not even a debate.

We need 7 home games every year. We need 9 wins every year. This isn't rocket science.

[sancho]

Nobody cares what the ACC says.

The ACC saying BYU counts as P5 is like me saying that pumpkin pie counts as my daily serving of fruit.

P5 has a very precise definition - a team in either the ACC, Big10, Big12, Pac-12 or SEC. Indianapolis is not a state, pi is not an integer, Dame Edna is not a woman, and BYU is not a P5.

I wish we had a "schedule day" every May. Every P5 would have one empty date on its calendar (in week 2), and on "schedule day," we all gather round the TV to watch a scheduling lottery in which every P5 is lined up with a random P5 opponent. Tell me that wouldn't have huge ratings. It would be like the NFL draft or Selection Sunday. Some years, Utah gets lined up with Rutgers. Some years, we get Ohio State.

[Sullyute]

I wish we had a "schedule day" every May. Every P5 would have one empty date on its calendar (in week 2), and on "schedule day," we all gather round the TV to watch a scheduling lottery in which every P5 is lined up with a random P5 opponent. Tell me that wouldn't have huge ratings. It would be like the NFL draft or Selection Sunday. Some years, Utah gets lined up with Rutgers. Some years, we get Ohio State.

Sancho for president! You have my vote.

[SoCalPat]

The ACC saying BYU counts as P5 is like me saying that pumpkin pie counts as my daily serving of fruit.

P5 has a very precise definition - a team in either the ACC, Big10, Big12, Pac-12 or SEC. Indianapolis is not a state, pi is not an integer, Dame Edna is not a woman, and BYU is not a P5.

I wish we had a "schedule day" every May. Every P5 would have one empty date on its calendar (in week 2), and on "schedule day," we all gather round the TV to watch a scheduling lottery in which every P5 is lined up with a random P5 opponent. Tell me that wouldn't have huge ratings. It would be like the NFL draft or Selection Sunday. Some years, Utah gets lined up with Rutgers. Some years, we get Ohio State.

I think that's a hell of an idea. The NFL has been doing this for years, although the formula for determining the teams is set in stone. The Schedule Release Show just lines up the opponents and gives them a date and time. The P5s could easily do this and further lock out the G5s.

[Scratch]

I think that's a hell of an idea. The NFL has been doing this for years, although the formula for determining the teams is set in stone. The Schedule Release Show just lines up the opponents and gives them a date and time. The P5s could easily do this and further lock out the G5s.

I love this idea as well, but I think you'd have to have some way to control home and away to keep that even and predictable. Sancho, figure out how that will work. Stat.

[wally]

You're all are so full of sh** your eyes are brown. Simply posting in this thread undermines and contradicts any insistence that even one of you never wants Utah to play BYU again. lol Here's a challenge for y'all and the Board Oligarchs: If it is truly the wish of the smattering of Utah fans posting here, to never play BYU again, then close this thread permanently. Delete it in it's entirety. Or, in the words of a famous tv ad from yester-year: wash that BYU man right out of your hair.

Until that happens, Utah and it's fans, including every poster on this site will never be anything more than "little brother."

I agree with tooblue's general sentiment that for Utah fans to want the rivalry to disappear is lame, and disingenuous. The BYU-Utah rivalry is part of the identity of both schools at this point.

To cease rivalry play on the field will just instigate a cold war pissing contest. I also think tooblue is right that this thread is just evidence of the denial some are in over "moving beyond" the BYU rivalry. He comes over here and stirs the pot a little and the thread grows by 5 pages. Seriously, if we were all "over them" his comments would go unanswered, but we are not, so they don't.

I love the rivalry. Love it. I think it is great for the local sports scene. I think it adds to fun of living in Utah. I think if you are consumed by the ugly aspects of the rivalry, it is probably a reflection on yourself more-so than the rivalry.

Also, I even tend to agree with tooblue about being little brother. After hitting my physical prime and starting to pass it, I am happy to consider Utah as younger and more attractive than BYU! Maybe youth is why Utah athletics are leaving BYU in the dust?

[SoCalPat]

I get the feeling you have decided to hunker down and defend this idea to the death. But it's just not true. Going easy on OOC appears to be a reasonable strategy to make the playoff. If FSU had lost any of those 6 games it should have lost, Baylor gets into the playoff. Mississippi State had the worst OOC schedule of anyone, but they were a lock for the playoff until they lost a 2nd SEC game. If Oregon had replaced Michigan State with Michigan Tech, they still would have been in the playoff.

That said, I do agree with you. I'd sacrifice our bowl chances in order to have one P5 or BYU/BSU on the schedule each year. I'm not sure that's what's best for the program, but as a fan, I'm greedy.

We have one year of playoff results under our belts. I have my stance, you have yours on how significant OOC is, whether it hurt Baylor, etc. However, the trend in college football appears to be scheduling up by getting that one P5 team on your non-conference schedule. Go to fbschedules.com and see what our fellow P5 schools are doing. There are some really appealing inter-sectional matchups. Ohio State has TCU on the docket for a home-and-home. Penn State is getting Pitt and Syracuse back on the schedule. USC is playing Alabama. Minnesota even has two Pac-12 schools on the docket in coming years (Oregon State and Colorado). Why can't Utah get Purdue or Iowa on the slate?

There's no point in debating the significance of the OOC. We've all made our stances clear on this. But Utah is a massive outlier when it comes to scheduling OOC. There might be five teams in P5 that don't have a fellow P5 school in their OOC after 2015. Now, maybe we truly are reinventing the wheel, and after 5-6 years of playoff committee talk and action, we'll see that our course of action is best as far as the playoff is concerned. Consensus today amongst P5s, however, strongly suggests we're doing it wrong. They're all scrambling to get a P5 on the schedule most of the time. Utah doesn't even have one after this year.

[chrisrenrut]

I agree with tooblue's general sentiment that for Utah fans to want the rivalry to disappear is lame, and disingenuous. The BYU-Utah rivalry is part of the identity of both schools at this point.

To cease rivalry play on the field will just instigate a cold war pissing contest. I also think tooblue is right that this thread is just evidence of the denial some are in over "moving beyond" the BYU rivalry. He comes over here and stirs the pot a little and the thread grows by 5 pages. Seriously, if we were all "over them" his comments would go unanswered, but we are not, so they don't.

I love the rivalry. Love it. I think it is great for the local sports scene. I think it adds to fun of living in Utah. I think if you are consumed by the ugly aspects of the rivalry, it is probably a reflection on yourself more-so than the rivalry.

Also, I even tend to agree with tooblue about being little brother. After hitting my physical prime and starting to pass it, I am happy to consider Utah as younger and more attractive than BYU! Maybe youth is why Utah athletics are leaving BYU in the dust?

:clap:

[sancho]

To cease rivalry play on the field will just instigate a cold war pissing contest. I also think tooblue is right that this thread is just evidence of the denial some are in over "moving beyond" the BYU rivalry. He comes over here and stirs the pot a little and the thread grows by 5 pages. Seriously, if we were all "over them" his comments would go unanswered, but we are not, so they don't.

I love the rivalry. Love it. I think it is great for the local sports scene. I think it adds to fun of living in Utah. I think if you are consumed by the ugly aspects of the rivalry, it is probably a reflection on yourself more-so than the rivalry.


I don't think I will ever "move beyond" BYU. My BYU hate has been written on my soul at this point.

I can't say that I always love the rivalry. Sometimes I hate it. As far as sports fan life goes, rivalry brings many of the highest highs and the lowest lows.

[sancho]

We have one year of playoff results under our belts. I have my stance, you have yours on how significant OOC is, whether it hurt Baylor, etc. However, the trend in college football appears to be scheduling up by getting that one P5 team on your non-conference schedule. Go to fbschedules.com and see what our fellow P5 schools are doing. There are some really appealing inter-sectional matchups. Ohio State has TCU on the docket for a home-and-home. Penn State is getting Pitt and Syracuse back on the schedule. USC is playing Alabama. Minnesota even has two Pac-12 schools on the docket in coming years (Oregon State and Colorado). Why can't Utah get Purdue or Iowa on the slate?


The CFP has been a very good thing for scheduling. I'm with you; we need to get on board. I don't care which P5 team or conference, but I want them on the schedules.

[utefan]

I agree with tooblue's general sentiment that for Utah fans to want the rivalry to disappear is lame, and disingenuous. The BYU-Utah rivalry is part of the identity of both schools at this point.

To cease rivalry play on the field will just instigate a cold war pissing contest. I also think tooblue is right that this thread is just evidence of the denial some are in over "moving beyond" the BYU rivalry. He comes over here and stirs the pot a little and the thread grows by 5 pages. Seriously, if we were all "over them" his comments would go unanswered, but we are not, so they don't.

I love the rivalry. Love it. I think it is great for the local sports scene. I think it adds to fun of living in Utah. I think if you are consumed by the ugly aspects of the rivalry, it is probably a reflection on yourself more-so than the rivalry.

Also, I even tend to agree with tooblue about being little brother. After hitting my physical prime and starting to pass it, I am happy to consider Utah as younger and more attractive than BYU! Maybe youth is why Utah athletics are leaving BYU in the dust?
Well it's the off season. If Utah was playing Oregon in football this week, this thread would be dead. He gave us something to discuss, so we're discussing it.

I'm in this thread, and I'd be perfectly happy if Utah never played BYU again. In fact, I hope they never schedule them again.

[sancho]

I love this idea as well, but I think you'd have to have some way to control home and away to keep that even and predictable. Sancho, figure out how that will work. Stat.

Every 2 years, there is a random division of the 64 P5 teams into two groups of 32.

Group 1 hosts someone from Group 2 in 2015, and Group 2 gets to host in 2016.

[utefan]

We have one year of playoff results under our belts. I have my stance, you have yours on how significant OOC is, whether it hurt Baylor, etc. However, the trend in college football appears to be scheduling up by getting that one P5 team on your non-conference schedule. Go to fbschedules.com and see what our fellow P5 schools are doing. There are some really appealing inter-sectional matchups. Ohio State has TCU on the docket for a home-and-home. Penn State is getting Pitt and Syracuse back on the schedule. USC is playing Alabama. Minnesota even has two Pac-12 schools on the docket in coming years (Oregon State and Colorado). Why can't Utah get Purdue or Iowa on the slate?

There's no point in debating the significance of the OOC. We've all made our stances clear on this. But Utah is a massive outlier when it comes to scheduling OOC. There might be five teams in P5 that don't have a fellow P5 school in their OOC after 2015. Now, maybe we truly are reinventing the wheel, and after 5-6 years of playoff committee talk and action, we'll see that our course of action is best as far as the playoff is concerned. Consensus today amongst P5s, however, strongly suggests we're doing it wrong. They're all scrambling to get a P5 on the schedule most of the time. Utah doesn't even have one after this year.
But BYU isn't a P5, so none of that matters in regards to scheduling BYU.

Schedule a school in a hot recruiting area if you're not going to schedule a P5. No need to schedule BYU.

Also, I think I mentioned that the Pac 12 plays 9 conference games to the SEC's 8. If I didn't mention it, I meant to but forgot. So that means the SEC has to play a P5 out of conference just to equal the Pac 12's conference schedule.

[Scorcho]

There's no point in debating the significance of the OOC. We've all made our stances clear on this. But Utah is a massive outlier when it comes to scheduling OOC. There might be five teams in P5 that don't have a fellow P5 school in their OOC after 2015. Now, maybe we truly are reinventing the wheel, and after 5-6 years of playoff committee talk and action, we'll see that our course of action is best as far as the playoff is concerned. Consensus today amongst P5s, however, strongly suggests we're doing it wrong. They're all scrambling to get a P5 on the schedule most of the time. Utah doesn't even have one after this year.

I bet you I can find 5 in the SEC alone.

Look at these 3 OOC Schedules from the SEC next year:

Miss St – Southern Miss, Northwestern St., Troy, Louisiana Tech

Ole Miss – UT Martin, Fresno St, New Mexico St., Memphis

Vandy – W Kentucky, Austin Peay, Middle Tenn, Houston

[sancho]

Every 2 years, there is a random division of the 64 P5 teams into two groups of 32.

Group 1 hosts someone from Group 2 in 2015, and Group 2 gets to host in 2016.

"We're cutting to a live look-in at the Huntsman Center in Salt Lake City, where the famous Mighty Utah Student Section has gathered to watch the Schedule Selection Show....and Utah draws....Kentucky!" <shot of the MUSS going crazy>

[wally]

I don't think I will ever "move beyond" BYU. My BYU hate has been written on my soul at this point.

I can't say that I always love the rivalry. Sometimes I hate it. As far as sports fan life goes, rivalry brings many of the highest highs and the lowest lows.
I think that we agree. The rivalry is fun on the winning end. My hypothesis is that folks that hate the rivalry, take it a tad more seriously than the average joe, whether they will admit it or not.

Well it's the off season. If Utah was playing Oregon in football this week, this thread would be dead. He gave us something to discuss, so we're discussing it.

I'm in this thread, and I'd be perfectly happy if Utah never played BYU again. In fact, I hope they never schedule them again.
You are a man on an island my friend!

As for whether there would be action in this thread during the week of the Oregon game, well, duh.

What the action here in the off-season shows is that our collective subconscious returns to the rivalry when at rest. I wonder what that means?

As lamented in this thread earlier regarding sports talk radio, the rivalry drives ratings. Why is that I wonder?

[Utah]

I bet you I can find 5 in the SEC alone.

Mississippi St is what I want us to do. They have guaranteed themselves being ranked every year just off of scheduling.

[Mormon Red Death]

I bet you I can find 5 in the SEC alone.

Look at these 3 OOC Schedules from the SEC next year:

Miss St – Southern Miss, Northwestern St., Troy, Louisiana Tech

Ole Miss – UT Martin, Fresno St, New Mexico St., Memphis

Vandy – W Kentucky, Austin Peay, Middle Tenn, Houston

Kansas St - S. Dak, UTSA, Louis Tech
OK St - CMU, Cent Ark, UTSA
Baylor - SMU, Rice, Lamar
Penn St - Temple, Buffalo, SDSU Army
NCSTATe - Troy, E Kentucky, Old Dominon, South alabama

[utefan]

I think that we agree. The rivalry is fun on the winning end. My hypothesis is that folks that hate the rivalry, take it a tad more seriously than the average joe, whether they will admit it or not.

You are a man on an island my friend!

As for whether there would be action in this thread during the week of the Oregon game, well, duh.

What the action here in the off-season shows is that our collective subconscious returns to the rivalry when at rest. I wonder what that means?

As lamented in this thread earlier regarding sports talk radio, the rivalry drives ratings. Why is that I wonder?
If some Oregon fan came in here running smack, I'm sure we'd all be talking about that right now. I don't think this thread proves Ute fans are secretly wanting to continue the rivalry game.

I agree it drives the ratings. That's mostly a BYU fan thing at this point. Utah fans won't be wishing they had BYU on the schedule when we're playing Oregon, Stanford, USC, UCLA, etc. But you can be sure BYU fans are missing that Utah game when they're playing a bunch of FCS teams mixed in with several bye weeks at the end of every season.

[Irving Washington]

We have one year of playoff results under our belts. I have my stance, you have yours on how significant OOC is, whether it hurt Baylor, etc. However, the trend in college football appears to be scheduling up by getting that one P5 team on your non-conference schedule. Go to fbschedules.com and see what our fellow P5 schools are doing. There are some really appealing inter-sectional matchups. Ohio State has TCU on the docket for a home-and-home. Penn State is getting Pitt and Syracuse back on the schedule. USC is playing Alabama. Minnesota even has two Pac-12 schools on the docket in coming years (Oregon State and Colorado). Why can't Utah get Purdue or Iowa on the slate?

There's no point in debating the significance of the OOC. We've all made our stances clear on this. But Utah is a massive outlier when it comes to scheduling OOC. There might be five teams in P5 that don't have a fellow P5 school in their OOC after 2015. Now, maybe we truly are reinventing the wheel, and after 5-6 years of playoff committee talk and action, we'll see that our course of action is best as far as the playoff is concerned. Consensus today amongst P5s, however, strongly suggests we're doing it wrong. They're all scrambling to get a P5 on the schedule most of the time. Utah doesn't even have one after this year.

Two points regarding BYU that haven't really been discussed:
1. We're talking about scheduling for 2019 and beyond. How will BYU be considered then? It's quite possible that they will be seen in a lesser light, as the P5 conference teams benefit from their greater independence and resources.
2. What is the recruiting advantage to playing BYU over a P5 or top G5 school in a talent rich state such as Texas or Florida. None.

[chrisrenrut]

. . .Utah fans won't be wishing they had BYU on the schedule when we're playing Oregon, Stanford, USC, UCLA, etc. . .

Speak for yourself. I'm betting about half the Utah fanbase wishes to still play BYU. Why else would Chris Hill feel the need to even entertain the idea? I'm betting he heard some backlash when the current two year hiatus was announced.

[Hot Lunch]

Speak for yourself. I'm betting about half the Utah fanbase wishes to still play BYU. Why else would Chris Hill feel the need to even entertain the idea? I'm betting he heard some backlash when the current two year hiatus was announced.

I want to keep playing BYU, as long as it is in September.

[concerned]

the rivalry is like gay marriage. It means a lot to older fans; younger fans think 'what is the big deal.' Fewer and fewer fans will remember end of season rivalry games with a conference championship on the line as co-equals (more or less). Younger fans only know the difference between Pac 12 and independence. As we play them in Sept. sporadically, it will have less and less significance.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I want to keep playing BYU, as long as it is in September.

...and never in consecutive years.

[LA Ute]

Half of me wants to keep playing them annually and the other half doesn't. I'm getting kind of tired of thinking about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FountainOfUte]

Every 2 years, there is a random division of the 64 P5 teams into two groups of 32.

Group 1 hosts someone from Group 2 in 2015, and Group 2 gets to host in 2016.

I love this. I'm guessing to get it off the ground, it would have to be announced now but the first "assignments" wouldn't take effect for five or six years, to allow the participating schools to get their schedules set up. For instance, if Utah were not hosting AND it falls in a year where we have 5 conference games on the road - first of all, that would suck - second of all we'd have to know now so we can at least make sure we're playing 6H/6R games that year. There's got to be a way that Uncle Larry could tell the Selection Committee "Hey, these six PAC schools HAVE TO host in year one." Maybe that solves it.

Along similar lines...

I've wanted to see an agreement among the P5 conferences that would mandate that every P5 school has to schedule a H-&-H series with one other team from each of the other four P5s within a 10-year time frame. If you haven't done that by the 10-year mark, you're ineligible for the playoff (which will be AT LEAST 8 teams by then) or maybe from the post season altogether. We've got to find a way to encourage a lot more crossover among the P5s.

[SoCalPat]

I bet you I can find 5 in the SEC alone.

Look at these 3 OOC Schedules from the SEC next year:

Miss St – Southern Miss, Northwestern St., Troy, Louisiana Tech

Ole Miss – UT Martin, Fresno St, New Mexico St., Memphis

Vandy – W Kentucky, Austin Peay, Middle Tenn, Houston

This is totally irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make, which consists of non-con skeds AFTER 2015 (a point you highlighted in responding to my post). Why would I argue 2015 non-con schedules? We're fine there.

Vandy is at Georgia Tech in 2016 and has a H-H with Kansas State starting in 2017. It also has a single open date in 2016 and 2017.

Mississippi State has some work to do near term (open date in 2016, three open dates in 2017) but follows that up with H-H covering the next six years against Kansas State, NC State and Arizona (hmmmm ... another Pac-12 school)

Ole Miss has a neutral site game against Florida State in 2016 and starts a H-H with Cal the following year. It has deals signed with Georgia Tech and Wake Forest as well.

[SoCalPat]

Kansas St - S. Dak, UTSA, Louis Tech
OK St - CMU, Cent Ark, UTSA
Baylor - SMU, Rice, Lamar
Penn St - Temple, Buffalo, SDSU Army
NCSTATe - Troy, E Kentucky, Old Dominon, South alabama

Once again, nobody here should care about what others are doing 2015 non-con. A lot of those games were signed before the CFP was instituted, and many schools are standing pat. That's their problem. But all of these schools have at least one P5 scheduled in the coming years, and most have multiple P5s already lined up.

[sancho]

Once again, nobody here should care about what others are doing 2015 non-con. A lot of those games were signed before the CFP was instituted, and many schools are standing pat. That's their problem. But all of these schools have at least one P5 scheduled in the coming years, and most have multiple P5s already lined up.

So what happened with us? Is it:

1) We are not good negotiators.

2) We want a weak OOC schedule for strategic reasons (to make bowl games).

3) It's musical chairs, and we are the last team standing.

4) We haven't figured out yet what we are doing with BYU, and that messes everything up. Are they our "P5"? Are we trying to play them annually? Are we trying to wean ourselves off the rivalry? Do we want play BYU and a real P5 in the same season?

If #4 is holding us up, we need to make a decision and go with it. It's lose-lose-lose. If we play BYU instead of a P5, we haven't fixed our P5 problem. If we only play a P5, we get ripped for ending a longtime glorious series. If we play both, our odds of making bowl games goes down.

[Mormon Red Death]

Once again, nobody here should care about what others are doing 2015 non-con. A lot of those games were signed before the CFP was instituted, and many schools are standing pat. That's their problem. But all of these schools have at least one P5 scheduled in the coming years, and most have multiple P5s already lined up.

Alright... give me a year when we should care.

[USS Utah]

I've said it before, but if it was actually about football, the competition on the field, I would be fine with the rivalry, but if it is about religion, I'm just not interested.

[concerned]

[QUOTE=sancho;52541]

2) We want a weak OOC schedule for strategic reasons (to make bowl games).

and to keep a coaching job

[SoCalPat]

Alright... give me a year when we should care.

I'm concerned starting with 2016. That's three years after everyone knew the CFP was coming and what they would emphasize. It's also our first year under the CFP without a P5 on the schedule.

[SoCalPat]

So what happened with us? Is it:

1) We are not good negotiators.

2) We want a weak OOC schedule for strategic reasons (to make bowl games).

3) It's musical chairs, and we are the last team standing.

4) We haven't figured out yet what we are doing with BYU, and that messes everything up. Are they our "P5"? Are we trying to play them annually? Are we trying to wean ourselves off the rivalry? Do we want play BYU and a real P5 in the same season?

If #4 is holding us up, we need to make a decision and go with it. It's lose-lose-lose. If we play BYU instead of a P5, we haven't fixed our P5 problem. If we only play a P5, we get ripped for ending a longtime glorious series. If we play both, our odds of making bowl games goes down.

How about this? Zach Lassiter was our point man on a lot of scheduling matters while he was at Utah. He was the one breaking scheduling news on Twitter, and we were getting some intriguing non-con games (Pittsburgh, Iowa State to name at least two). I don't know if we've really filled that vacuum. I also might be overestimating his role in scheduling. If this fits, then No. 1 is clearly in play, and probably No. 3.

BYU has eight Pac-12 schools signed to deals in the next six years (Over the previous three and the next six, it will have played or completed a series against every Pac-12 team except Oregon). That means a lot of schools have a vested interest in whether or not BYU is worthy of P5 status. I don't think bestowing that status upon them makes them a threat to join a P5 league -- they're always a threat to join once a league is willing to get past their unique demands, most notably, no-Sunday play and BYUTV. If BYU has P5 status, this discussion as it pertains to Utah goes away entirely. I'm very curious as to where the league stands on this matter. It's a question that should be put to rest, but I don't think it's ever been addressed.

[LA Ute]

It's lose-lose-lose. If we play BYU instead of a P5, we haven't fixed our P5 problem. If we only play a P5, we get ripped for ending a longtime glorious series. If we play both, our odds of making bowl games goes down.

Well stated. There isn't much of a business case for keeping the old rivalry game going. There's a case based on tradition and emotion.

I will stand by and wait for Pat to tell me I don't know what I am talking about. ;)

[LA Ute]

How about this? Zach Lassiter was our point man on a lot of scheduling matters while he was at Utah. He was the one breaking scheduling news on Twitter, and we were getting some intriguing non-con games (Pittsburgh, Iowa State to name at least two). I don't know if we've really filled that vacuum. I also might be overestimating his role in scheduling.

You might be. He was the head of the ticket office, so his role in announcing schedules might have been about sales. But I am not sure. He is a very good guy, BTW.

[SoCalPat]

Well stated. There isn't much of a business case for keeping the old rivalry game going. There's a case based on tradition and emotion.

I will stand by and wait for Pat to tell me I don't know what I am talking about. ;)

Nah, Sancho's right. I don't put much stock into the difficulty placed in reaching a bowl game by playing a P5 and BYU (we did it in our first year with John Hays as our QB). But as I've said, if our league views BYU as P5, that cleans up a lot of messes right there. Only the insecure amongst us would worry about BYU given P5 status. It doesn't put them any closer to being in a P5 league and their deals as an independent will prevent them from ever making a serious run at a playoff.

[utefan]

Nah, Sancho's right. I don't put much stock into the difficulty placed in reaching a bowl game by playing a P5 and BYU (we did it in our first year with John Hays as our QB). But as I've said, if our league views BYU as P5, that cleans up a lot of messes right there. Only the insecure amongst us would worry about BYU given P5 status. It doesn't put them any closer to being in a P5 league and their deals as an independent will prevent them from ever making a serious run at a playoff.
I'll say this again...

The Pac 12 plays 9 conference games, plus a conference championship game. That's 10 P5 games, without even considering out of conference games.

The SEC plays 8 conference games and a championship game. They need to play an extra P5 school out of conference just to equal the Pac 12's conference schedule.

The Big 12 plays 9 conference games but doesn't have a championship game. They need to play an extra P5 team (and it needs to be a very good one) out of conference just to equal the Pac 12 champion's conference schedule.

If you start adding P5 teams to the Pac 12 out of conference schedule, it puts the Pac 12 even further ahead. You don't have to add P5 teams to the Pac 12 out of conference schedule just to keep up.

[SoCalPat]

I'll say this again...

The Pac 12 plays 9 conference games, plus a conference championship game. That's 10 P5 games, without even considering out of conference games.

The SEC plays 8 conference games and a championship game. They need to play an extra P5 school out of conference just to equal the Pac 12's conference schedule.

The Big 12 plays 9 conference games but doesn't have a championship game. They need to play an extra P5 team (and it needs to be a very good one) out of conference just to equal the Pac 12 champion's conference schedule.

If you start adding P5 teams to the Pac 12 out of conference schedule, it puts the Pac 12 even further ahead. You don't have to add P5 teams to the Pac 12 out of conference schedule just to keep up.

The disparity that exists between league schedules cannot be ignored and I would like to see uniform guidelines amongst the leagues as it pertains to league scheduling. However, I think there's danger in resting on what you have in league play and not challenging yourself in the non-con. There's more ambition in the SEC's 8+1 than in the Pac-12's 9+0, because it guarantees a non-conference road game every other year. We don't have enough evidence to suggest one way or another, but I think such a game can be a difference maker between Nos. 4 and 5, or being in an NY6 bowl vs. the Alamo Bowl.

[utefan]

The disparity that exists between league schedules cannot be ignored and I would like to see uniform guidelines amongst the leagues as it pertains to league scheduling. However, I think there's danger in resting on what you have in league play and not challenging yourself in the non-con. There's more ambition in the SEC's 8+1 than in the Pac-12's 9+0, because it guarantees a non-conference road game every other year. We don't have enough evidence to suggest one way or another, but I think such a game can be a difference maker between Nos. 4 and 5, or being in an NY6 bowl vs. the Alamo Bowl.
Uniform guidelines in league play would be nice, and the Pac 12 has been lobbying for it. But as things are today, the number of out of conference P5 games is not as important as the total number of P5 games on a schedule.

There's no point in getting worked up because the SEC or Big 12 teams play an extra P5 team out of conference. The Pac 12 will still play just as many P5 teams as the SEC and Big 12.

To your other points from this thread...

There is no reason whatsoever to schedule BYU, other than history and emotion.

They're not a P5 team, so the playoff committee won't give us any credit for beating them. And it doesn't matter if the ACC or even the Pac 12 says they're a P5 team. Until the SEC says they are, then the playoff committee will continue to treat them as a G5 team.

So if we beat BYU, we get no credit. But we'd be their super bowl every year, so we'll see their best effort of the year. On the chance that they beat us, the playoff committee will treat it as if we lost to Air Force or Fresno State.

I'd rather play Houston, Central Florida, Arkansas State, Memphis, Cincinnati, or any other school in a hot recruiting area.

[SoCalPat]

Uniform guidelines in league play would be nice, and the Pac 12 has been lobbying for it. But as things are today, the number of out of conference P5 games is not as important as the total number of P5 games on a schedule.

There's no point in getting worked up because the SEC or Big 12 teams play an extra P5 team out of conference. The Pac 12 will still play just as many P5 teams as the SEC and Big 12.

To your other points from this thread...

There is no reason whatsoever to schedule BYU, other than history and emotion.

They're not a P5 team, so the playoff committee won't give us any credit for beating them. And it doesn't matter if the ACC or even the Pac 12 says they're a P5 team. Until the SEC says they are, then the playoff committee will continue to treat them as a G5 team.

So if we beat BYU, we get no credit. But we'd be their super bowl every year, so we'll see their best effort of the year. On the chance that they beat us, the playoff committee will treat it as if we lost to Air Force or Fresno State.

I'd rather play Houston, Central Florida, Arkansas State, Memphis, Cincinnati, or any other school in a hot recruiting area.

We'll have to agree to disagree on several of your points, but if you really think some of the schools you listed are "hot recruiting areas", I don't know what to tell you. You know what's another hot recruiting area? The state of Utah. And we cannot neglect our own backyard. The Northern Illinois H-H ranks high on a very short list of stupid things Hill has done to the football program.

[utefan]

We'll have to agree to disagree on several of your points, but if you really think some of the schools you listed are "hot recruiting areas", I don't know what to tell you. You know what's another hot recruiting area? The state of Utah. And we cannot neglect our own backyard. The Northern Illinois H-H ranks high on a very short list of stupid things Hill has done to the football program.

Utah is a hot recruiting area, and the Utes are already on the news every week in Utah.

We need to get some hype in Florida, Texas, Ohio, and the deep south.

If we play those teams, we'll still be in the news in Utah those weeks. We don't have to play BYU to get on the news in Utah. We do have to play a Texas/Florida/Ohio team in order to get on their local news.


You want kids in Florida talking about the Utes? Go down there in a flashy new uniform and spank their local team. You want kids in Utah talking about the Utes? Beat USC/UCLA/Stanford/Oregon, while wearing flashy new uniforms.

We don't need BYU on the schedule. In fact, we're better off without playing them.

[SoCalPat]

Utah is a hot recruiting area, and the Utes are already on the news every week in Utah.

We need to get some hype in Florida, Texas, Ohio, and the deep south.

If we play those teams, we'll still be in the news in Utah those weeks. We don't have to play BYU to get on the news in Utah. We do have to play a Texas/Florida/Ohio team in order to get on their local news.


You want kids in Florida talking about the Utes? Go down there in a flashy new uniform and spank their local team. You want kids in Utah talking about the Utes? Beat USC/UCLA/Stanford/Oregon, while wearing flashy new uniforms.

We don't need BYU on the schedule. In fact, we're better off without playing them.

I'm not subjecting the board to THAT debate again.

[FountainOfUte]

Welp...I'm just enjoying the back and forth on this topic. Just when I'm convinced that OOC strength really doesn't matter, then I read another post and become convinced that we'd be stupid to stop playing BYU altogether AND dumb down our schedule. Put a gun to my head and I honestly don't know which way I'd go with it. Good luck, Chris Hill.

The trick with playing BYU is that they are a funny gray-area team. It's true, they're not P5. You don't get P5 credit for scheduling and beating them. And I'm not talking "officially" or not (per the ACC, SEC, or whomever), I'm talking about their perception. They are not perceived to be part of the P5 + Notre Dame. They're just not.

The flip side is - and let's be real - they are also not perceived to be on the same level as Wyoming, Fresno State, and Louisiana Tech. They're just not. Beating them is not dismissed as easily as it is when we take down a San Jose State.

I still think it's a fun game and a fun rivalry. I also have to confess that I have not missed playing them as much as I thought I would. I mean, I'll admit, I haven't missed them at all. The Holy War used to be a crescendo after a conference season that was mostly cannon fodder. Now, every week is fun. Every week is a match up that would have been our marquee non-con game in the old days.

I don't really worry about the "let's not help them" angle. I don't care. I don't think Utah is so powerful and badass that we have much effect on BYU. So, if we don't play them again I probably won't miss them as much as I would have expected five years ago. If we do play them, I'll for sure tune in and love it and have a nervous stomach the whole week preceding like I always have. It's in my DNA at this point.

I want to see interesting non-con games (particularly with P5 schools) but I also want to go to bowls every year. I can see how those two can fight against each other for a program at Utah's current level.

Anyway...good discussion. Go Utes!

[LA Ute]

Welp...I'm just enjoying the back and forth on this topic. Just when I'm convinced that OOC strength really doesn't matter, then I read another post and become convinced that we'd be stupid to stop playing BYU altogether AND dumb down our schedule. Put a gun to my head and I honestly don't know which way I'd go with it. Good luck, Chris Hill.

The trick with playing BYU is that they are a funny gray-area team. It's true, they're not P5. You don't get P5 credit for scheduling and beating them. And I'm not talking "officially" or not (per the ACC, SEC, or whomever), I'm talking about their perception. They are not perceived to be part of the P5 + Notre Dame. They're just not.

The flip side is - and let's be real - they are also not perceived to be on the same level as Wyoming, Fresno State, and Louisiana Tech. They're just not. Beating them is not dismissed as easily as it is when we take down a San Jose State.

I still think it's a fun game and a fun rivalry. I also have to confess that I have not missed playing them as much as I thought I would. I mean, I'll admit, I haven't missed them at all. The Holy War used to be a crescendo after a conference season that was mostly cannon fodder. Now, every week is fun. Every week is a match up that would have been our marquee non-con game in the old days.

I don't really worry about the "let's not help them" angle. I don't care. I don't think Utah is so powerful and badass that we have much effect on BYU. So, if we don't play them again I probably won't miss them as much as I would have expected five years ago. If we do play them, I'll for sure tune in and love it and have a nervous stomach the whole week preceding like I always have. It's in my DNA at this point.

I want to see interesting non-con games (particularly with P5 schools) but I also want to go to bowls every year. I can see how those two can fight against each other for a program at Utah's current level.

Anyway...good discussion. Go Utes!

Yep.

[utefan]

Welp...I'm just enjoying the back and forth on this topic. Just when I'm convinced that OOC strength really doesn't matter, then I read another post and become convinced that we'd be stupid to stop playing BYU altogether AND dumb down our schedule. Put a gun to my head and I honestly don't know which way I'd go with it. Good luck, Chris Hill.

The trick with playing BYU is that they are a funny gray-area team. It's true, they're not P5. You don't get P5 credit for scheduling and beating them. And I'm not talking "officially" or not (per the ACC, SEC, or whomever), I'm talking about their perception. They are not perceived to be part of the P5 + Notre Dame. They're just not.

The flip side is - and let's be real - they are also not perceived to be on the same level as Wyoming, Fresno State, and Louisiana Tech. They're just not. Beating them is not dismissed as easily as it is when we take down a San Jose State.

I still think it's a fun game and a fun rivalry. I also have to confess that I have not missed playing them as much as I thought I would. I mean, I'll admit, I haven't missed them at all. The Holy War used to be a crescendo after a conference season that was mostly cannon fodder. Now, every week is fun. Every week is a match up that would have been our marquee non-con game in the old days.

I don't really worry about the "let's not help them" angle. I don't care. I don't think Utah is so powerful and badass that we have much effect on BYU. So, if we don't play them again I probably won't miss them as much as I would have expected five years ago. If we do play them, I'll for sure tune in and love it and have a nervous stomach the whole week preceding like I always have. It's in my DNA at this point.

I want to see interesting non-con games (particularly with P5 schools) but I also want to go to bowls every year. I can see how those two can fight against each other for a program at Utah's current level.

Anyway...good discussion. Go Utes!
BYU is light years away from being considered a P5 team by the playoff committee.

People in this thread are saying the Utes with 9 or 10 P5 teams on the schedule isn't enough. What does BYU play, 3, 4, 5 per year?

Until they're playing 9 or 10 per year like everyone else, they won't be a P5 team in the eyes of the selection committee.

So while I agree they're not Fresno State to us Ute fans, they are Fresno State in the eyes of the selection committee. They're probably Fresno State to most fans around the nation besides Ute fans.

They're not as good as Boise, so they're not on that level. Fresno State is on that "good program, but not as good as Boise" level.

That's the problem with playing BYU. When we play them, they're a better team than usual. We're playing Boise but only getting credit for Air Force or Fresno State.

We'd actually be pretty foolish to continue playing them. There is literally no advantage to it.

If we don't play them and we play Memphis instead, the game will sell out just the same. And we'll have the added benefit of being on the news in Tennessee, where we have yet to recruit heavily.

It's time to cut bait. I realize BYU and their fans, biased media, and possibly even church leadership really want this game. I realize for BYU to be taken seriously they need to play a lot more P5 games, and this would help them out. But it's just foolish for us to give up so much, and risk giving up even more, for literally nothing in return.

If we schedule a G5 team, we don't want one that's going to play like a P5 team against us, only 40 miles away, and will alligator roll, hit out of bounds, and all the other nonsense BYU is notorious for against us. If we only get credit for beating Fresno State, then let's play someone who doesn't play us any different than Fresno State would.

[sancho]

They're not as good as Boise, so they're not on that level.


Neither are we. Boise just won their third Fiesta Bowl. They really deserve their own classification. There should be P5, Boise, and G5.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Neither are we. Boise just won their third Fiesta Bowl. They really deserve their own classification. There should be P5, Boise, and G5.

Boise State's problem is that the very good football program is housed in a community college that happens to have a decent Computer Science and an excellent Trucking program, with little else to offer. They are easily a P5-worthy football program*, but the academics of the university guarantee they will never get invited to a P5 conference. But I will admit the way they donkey punched Arizona in the bowl game was impressive, especially after watching our team quit during the AZ game.

We need to cut some of the dead wood out of the schedule. I would be pissed to pay full price to watch the team play several of the teams on the schedule. I don't have a problem with playing byu, but it needs to be somewhat rare. More than 4 times per decade is far too often.

*if they had to play a tougher schedule they would likely lose at least 4-6 games every year, with a 10+ win season once a decade.

[utefan]

Neither are we. Boise just won their third Fiesta Bowl. They really deserve their own classification. There should be P5, Boise, and G5.
I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure if Utah had been in the MWC last year we'd have went undefeated and smashed some team in a New Years Six game. Especially if we were fully healthy, with several weeks to prepare for a banged up Arizona team that had just been blown out in the conference championship game.

Boise is the best of the G5, but they're still G5.

[Utah]

This is a fun debate, but the reality is, our OOC scheduling only matters if we are 13-0 or 12-1. And odds are, if we are 13-0 or 12-1, our OOC won't matter at all.

What kept the Big 12 out was Ohio St. and no conf champ game.

[Scratch]

This is a fun debate, but the reality is, our OOC scheduling only matters if we are 13-0 or 12-1. And odds are, if we are 13-0 or 12-1, our OOC won't matter at all.

What kept the Big 12 out was Ohio St. and no conf champ game.

This isn't entirely true; our OCC scheduling makes a huge difference if it is the difference between 5-7 or 6-6.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure if Utah had been in the MWC last year we'd have went undefeated and smashed some team in a New Years Six game. Especially if we were fully healthy, with several weeks to prepare for a banged up Arizona team that had just been blown out in the conference championship game.

Boise is the best of the G5, but they're still G5.

Our one possible loss would have been Boise. And Whitt can't seem to stop a fast spread offense (see Arizona, Oregon), so I am not confident that we could have beat AZ in the Fiesta Bowl as Blasé State did.

[utefan]

Our one possible loss would have been Boise. And Whitt can't seem to stop a fast spread offense (see Arizona, Oregon), so I am not confident that we could have beat AZ in the Fiesta Bowl as Blasé State did.
Well if we had footage of their blowout loss exposing their weaknesses, over a month to prepare for them, a fully healthy team while they were banged up, we probably could have beaten Arizona as well.

Air Force beat Boise last year.

[NorthwestUteFan]

True. But it is far more interesting to play them with one week of preparation in the course of an eternal Home and Home schedule.

There is no way I would ever consider going back to the MWC, even if it guaranteed 10+ win seasons and an NY6 game every other year.

[Utah]

This isn't entirely true; our OCC scheduling makes a huge difference if it is the difference between 5-7 or 6-6.

Exactly. Or a huge difference between a five win season with six home games and an eight win season with 7 home games. Smart teams schedule themselves into success. A tough OOC schedule is career suicide.

Be smart with your schedule. There is a reason why the SEC is perceived to be the best conference in football. 7+ home games, weak OOC, late season FCS teams to stay healthy, 8 conference games.

Be smart. Schedule yourself for success.

[U-Ute]

There is no way I would ever consider going back to the MWC, even if it guaranteed 10+ win seasons and an NY6 game every other year.

If there's one thing last night's game against Arizona crystallized for me, it is the belief that we're going to have these types of games, in both football and basketball, on a regular basis. With schools like Oregon and USC in football and UCLA and Arizona in basketball, there's always a potential for a big time match up.

[mUUser]

If there's one thing last night's game against Arizona crystallized for me, it is the belief that we're going to have these types of games, in both football and basketball, on a regular basis. With schools like Oregon and USC in football and UCLA and Arizona in basketball, there's always a potential for a big time match up.


That's exactly right. We're livin' the dream, right now. Big time games against top shelf competition -- week in and week out. Hard not to be happy with the state of the Utah athletics program.

[utefan]

That's exactly right. We're livin' the dream, right now. Big time games against top shelf competition -- week in and week out. Hard not to be happy with the state of the Utah athletics program.
Not only big time games, but we're holding our own in them. Utah athletics is in a place I never thought I'd see it. It's much better than a dream. It's a fulfilled fantasy.

[wally]

That's exactly right. We're livin' the dream, right now. Big time games against top shelf competition -- week in and week out. Hard not to be happy with the state of the Utah athletics program.


Not only big time games, but we're holding our own in them. Utah athletics is in a place I never thought I'd see it. It's much better than a dream. It's a fulfilled fantasy.

mUUser makes a great point. Unfortunately however, utefan was too busy in a thread dedicated to BYU to break away and comment on the Utah vs. Zona game on Saturday. But don't get him wrong, he is sooooo over BYU. Like, way over them. Like, doesn't even care if they have called or not........

.......err...they haven't called have they? If they have tell them that we are "so over them" then come tell us how they reacted.

[LA Ute]

Unfortunately however, utefan was too busy in a thread dedicated to BYU to break away and comment on the Utah vs. Zona game on Saturday. But don't get him wrong, he is sooooo over BYU. Like, way over them. Like, doesn't even care if they have called or not........

I think getting "over" BYU is a longer-term process for most, kind of like quitting smoking. My friends who are former smokers tell me that even years later the scent of burning tobacco stirs within them a yearning for the filthy weed. For Utes fans the time required to get over BYU-Provo is directly proportional to one's length of time as a Utah fan. But it is steadily happening. At least it is with me.

[utefan]

mUUser makes a great point. Unfortunately however, utefan was too busy in a thread dedicated to BYU to break away and comment on the Utah vs. Zona game on Saturday. But don't get him wrong, he is sooooo over BYU. Like, way over them. Like, doesn't even care if they have called or not........

.......err...they haven't called have they? If they have tell them that we are "so over them" then come tell us how they reacted.
I'm not in this thread talking about BYU. The only thing I've said about BYU in this thread is that we should never play them again. I keep coming back to it because people keep posting in it.

Don't kid yourself, the majority of this thread is about the Utes, regardless of what the title says.

[U-Ute]

I believe this thread has been, and will continue to be, a catharsis point for Ute fans.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I believe this thread has been, and will continue to be, a catharsis point for Ute fans.

We are all better for progressing away from the Filthy Weed.

[USS Utah]

I think getting "over" BYU is a longer-term process for most, kind of like quitting smoking. My friends who are former smokers tell me that even years later the scent of burning tobacco stirs within them a yearning for the filthy weed. For Utes fans the time required to get over BYU-Provo is directly proportional to one's length of time as a Utah fan. But it is steadily happening. At least it is with me.

Old habits die hard.

It can be easy to forget that BYU plays basketball in January and February, in part because college basketball gets minimal coverage in this market -- so it's also a matter of where you live. It's a lot harder to be unaware of BYU football because the local media has an interest in making sure you don't forget.

But Saturday, as I was watching the game, I noticed the Gonzaga score at the bottom of the screen and expressed some surprise that BYU was leading in the first half, but then thought order was restored when it was tied at the half. I flipped over to the Gonzaga game after the end of the Utah game only to be shocked that the Zags were down ten. My natural reaction was to criticize Gonzaga for an epic choke job. I tried to counter that by giving props to BYU, regardless of Gonzaga choking, its still a big win for the team down south.

[LA Ute]

Old habits die hard.

It can be easy to forget that BYU plays basketball in January and February, in part because college basketball gets minimal coverage in this market -- so it's also a matter of where you live. It's a lot harder to be unaware of BYU football because the local media has an interest in making sure you don't forget.

But Saturday, as I was watching the game, I noticed the Gonzaga score at the bottom of the screen and expressed some surprise that BYU was leading in the first half, but then thought order was restored when it was tied at the half. I flipped over to the Gonzaga game after the end of the Utah game only to be shocked that the Zags were down ten. My natural reaction was to criticize Gonzaga for an epic choke job. I tried to counter that by giving props to BYU, regardless of Gonzaga choking, its still a big win for the team down south.

It's a better road win than we have this season. For many seasons, I think.

[sancho]

It's a better road win than we have this season. For many seasons, I think.

More than that pansy McConnell.

[chrisrenrut]

It's a better road win than we have this season. For many seasons, I think.

Sadly, our best road win of the year is at the Marriott center. It's our only road win againts a top 50 RPI team.

If we could have pulled out the San Diego or Kansas win, we would be in a much better seeding position. Coulda, shoulda, woulda.

[SoCalPat]

It's a better road win than we have this season. For many seasons, I think.

Yeah ... on the night we couldn't take a huge step forward to claiming a share of the league title at home, both Boise and BYU go out on the road and snap lengthy home-court winning streaks from two teams that are locks for the tournament. That hurt. Taking Boise, BYU and Arizona on a three-team money-line parlay Saturday night would've been a huge payoff.

[U-Ute]

Old habits die hard.

It can be easy to forget that BYU plays basketball in January and February, in part because college basketball gets minimal coverage in this market -- so it's also a matter of where you live. It's a lot harder to be unaware of BYU football because the local media has an interest in making sure you don't forget.

But Saturday, as I was watching the game, I noticed the Gonzaga score at the bottom of the screen and expressed some surprise that BYU was leading in the first half, but then thought order was restored when it was tied at the half. I flipped over to the Gonzaga game after the end of the Utah game only to be shocked that the Zags were down ten. My natural reaction was to criticize Gonzaga for an epic choke job. I tried to counter that by giving props to BYU, regardless of Gonzaga choking, its still a big win for the team down south.

Personally, I'm happy that BYU beat Gonzaga more than I'm upset at the lack of schadenfreude I could have experienced by their loss. It helps Utah's resume that BYU beat a top team on the road when Utah beat BYU in Provo.

[sancho]

Personally, I'm happy that BYU beat Gonzaga more than I'm upset at the lack of schadenfreude I could have experienced by their loss. It helps Utah's resume that BYU beat a top team on the road when Utah beat BYU in Provo.

Well, I wish they had lost, and I hope they lose again. I don't think it affects our seeding in a meaningful way, and I dislike them intensely.

[U-Ute]

Well, I wish they had lost, and I hope they lose again. I don't think it affects our seeding in a meaningful way, and I dislike them intensely.

A view that while I don't share, I can get completely behind.

[LA Ute]

Lol.

BYU's Mendenhall: '10-ish' players to be disciplined for Beach Bowl brawl (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25091159/byus-mendenhall-10-ish-players-to-be-disciplined-for-beach-bowl-brawl)
The story is full of gems.

[USS Utah]

Personally, I'm happy that BYU beat Gonzaga more than I'm upset at the lack of schadenfreude I could have experienced by their loss. It helps Utah's resume that BYU beat a top team on the road when Utah beat BYU in Provo.

OTOH, Arizona, which Utah lost to twice, beat Gonzaga in OT at home.

[sancho]

OTOH, Arizona, which Utah lost to twice, beat Gonzaga in OT at home.

I wish the Zags would move into the MWC. I would really like to see them play a more interesting conference schedule.

[Scorcho]

Lol.

BYU's Mendenhall: '10-ish' players to be disciplined for Beach Bowl brawl (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25091159/byus-mendenhall-10-ish-players-to-be-disciplined-for-beach-bowl-brawl)


The story is full of gems.

between the lip-syncing and the fighting it's like a really lame production of West Side Story

[sancho]

A view that while I don't share, I can get completely behind.

You should adopt this view. We still compete with BYU for local recruits. BYU missing the tournament helps Utah more than a small bump in our already high RPI can.

There are 12-5, 11-6 upsets every year in March Madness. If BYU makes the tournament, they might become that cinderella. We definitely don't want that. Any tiny boost we get from them beating Gonzaga is outweighed 100 times by the potential for them to have a memorable run in March.

It's always just better to root against them.

[LA Ute]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn1IWESXpsw&amp=&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

[UTEopia]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn1IWESXpsw&amp;feature=youtu.be


I told you I wasn't going to click on this thread anymore and then you pull me right back in. This is the last time.

[concerned]

I told you I wasn't going to click on this thread anymore and then you pull me right back in. This is the last time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

[sancho]

I told you I wasn't going to click on this thread anymore and then you pull me right back in. This is the last time.

I will enjoy this thread forever.

[LA Ute]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/byu-fans-rush-cbs-broadcasting-studio-following-up,38216/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview%3A1%3ADefault


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NorthwestUteFan]

That story seems to be a violation of Poe's Law. It is too lifelike. And I wouldn't put it past that fanbase.



Poe's law, named after its author Nathan Poe, is a literary adage which stipulates that without a clear indicator of an author's intended sarcasm it becomes impossible to tell the difference between an expression of sincere extremism and a parody of extremism.



P.S. Bravo on the home cooking, Tom Holmoe. Being on the NCAA Selection Committee certainly paid off this year.

P.P.S. that link was humorous. The Onion skewers byu and Mormons far more than one would expect.
Some of the stuff they posted during the Romney campaign was brutal.

[Senioritis]

The curse of Jeff Lebowski strikes again. What a dickhead move.

That's the first I've watched of the Mighty Cougs since the Utes beat them. What a remarkable layup drill. The inevitable outcome of Jimmermania.

[Senioritis]

I will say that the game was a joy to watch, and not just for the outcome. It was like watching real life NBA Jam.

[sancho]

The inevitable outcome of Jimmermania.

Remember when Mike Leach started at Texas Tech, and some QB put up amazing numbers? Everyone was drooling all over this guy, putting him on Heisman watch lists. Then he left and did nothing in the NFL while his replacement at TTech put more insane numbers. Pretty soon, everyone just accepted that Leach QBs would get crazy numbers but wouldn't actually be anything special.

Is that what is happening at BYU? Tyler Haws passed Jimmer up in scoring. Next year, surely someone on that team will average 20 ppg. Are these guys just system QBs?

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

This is me watching that epic second half. http://youtu.be/fyEThSM4JnI

[Brian]

The curse of Jeff Lebowski strikes again. What a dickhead move.

That's the first I've watched of the Mighty Cougs since the Utes beat them. What a remarkable layup drill. The inevitable outcome of Jimmermania.

What did Geoffrey do?

[Brian]

I was busy and just caught the last 1:30 of it. Looks like it would have been a fun game.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

What did Geoffrey do?

I believe he's referring to the name change and the attempted exorcism of all Utes.

[SoCalPat]

Even with Ole Miss shooting 60 percent in the second half, they still only shot 45 percent for the game and were outshot by BYU, both from 2 and especially from 3.

Where BYU lost this game should sound familiar -- Ole Miss had 16 offensive rebounds to BYU's 6 (outscored BYU 16-4 on second chance points). Coupled with a 15-7 edge in turnovers (25-0 Ole Miss edge here), Ole Miss put up 22 more shots than BYU. The idea that a sieve-like defense lost BYU this game is how you identify not-so-smart basketball fans. What lost BYU the game was that it didn't value possession and that Collinsworth had to have had one of his five worst games of the year (1-7 FG, 5 turnovers, only 26 minutes played)

[Senioritis]

I believe he's referring to the name change and the attempted exorcism of all Utes.

Yeah, nothing new, just being small and petty and clinging to old grievances.

In that respect, Lebowski is like the BYU Message Board Nate Cooper. A pretty good comparison, actually.

[Senioritis]

Even with Ole Miss shooting 60 percent in the second half, they still only shot 45 percent for the game and were outshot by BYU, both from 2 and especially from 3.

Where BYU lost this game should sound familiar -- Ole Miss had 16 offensive rebounds to BYU's 6 (outscored BYU 16-4 on second chance points). Coupled with a 15-7 edge in turnovers (25-0 Ole Miss edge here), Ole Miss put up 22 more shots than BYU. The idea that a sieve-like defense lost BYU this game is how you identify not-so-smart basketball fans. What lost BYU the game was that it didn't value possession and that Collinsworth had to have had one of his five worst games of the year (1-7 FG, 5 turnovers, only 26 minutes played)

BYU gave up 50 points in a little over 14 minutes. At that rate, they'd give up 142 points in a 40 minute game. Regardless of whether that's due to piss poor rebouding (check), ridiculous shot selection (check), coughing it up like Doc Holliday (check), or whatever else, BYU's sieve-like defense was a major part of the loss. They gave up 50 points in 14 minutes. That's got something to do with defense.

[SoCalPat]

BYU gave up 50 points in a little over 14 minutes. At that rate, they'd give up 142 points in a 40 minute game. Regardless of whether that's due to piss poor rebouding (check), ridiculous shot selection (check), coughing it up like Doc Holliday (check), or whatever else, BYU's sieve-like defense was a major part of the loss. They gave up 50 points in 14 minutes. That's got something to do with defense.

We're talking about 2-3 fewer turnovers and 1-2 more offensive rebounds and BYU likely wins. And Ole Miss wasn't afraid to run with BYU. I saw a dozen shots over the timeframe you mentioned that you'd never see a lot of teams take (Utah included) -- mostly perimeter shots early in the shot clock. People are acting if BYU was Loyola Marymount reincarnated last night. Not even close.

[sancho]

We're talking about 2-3 fewer turnovers and 1-2 more offensive rebounds and BYU likely wins. And Ole Miss wasn't afraid to run with BYU. I saw a dozen shots over the timeframe you mentioned that you'd never see a lot of teams take (Utah included) -- mostly perimeter shots early in the shot clock. People are acting if BYU was Loyola Marymount reincarnated last night. Not even close.

I'm not sure what you mean here, but I'm glad BYU missed the dance. BYU was given a gift of a draw - a play-in vs a bad team and then a game against one of the most overseeded teams in the field. Even on one of their better nights, they weren't good enough.

[Utah]

That BYU game was like our WSU game last year. You have a good OL, you have Booker, run the damn clock out!

[LA Ute]

BYU gave up 50 points in a little over 14 minutes. At that rate, they'd give up 142 points in a 40 minute game. Regardless of whether that's due to piss poor rebouding (check), ridiculous shot selection (check), coughing it up like Doc Holliday (check), or whatever else, BYU's sieve-like defense was a major part of the loss. They gave up 50 points in 14 minutes. That's got something to do with defense.

Indeed. Last time I checked, getting rebounds while on defense was part of defense.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Indeed. Last time I checked, getting rebounds while on defense was part of defense.

You obviously are a not-so-smart basketball fan. SoCal played (sort of) with Christian Laettner (on the same court). Why must you hate Christian Laettner so badly? Christian Laettner!

[chrisrenrut]

You obviously are a not-so-smart basketball fan. SoCal played (sort of) with Christian Laettner (on the same court). Why must you hate Christian Laettner so badly? Christian Laettner!

I think Pat was saying it wasn't a lack of defense, which is the typical BYU-hater mantra when criticizing their team. From the little I saw of the second half, turnovers were a big part of the problem too. It seemed for a while that BYU forgot what color jerseys they were wearing, because they kept throwing the ball got he other team. Turnovers happen while on offense, which is why defense only can't be blamed.

[SoCalPat]

I think Pat was saying it wasn't a lack of defense, which is the typical BYU-hater mantra when criticizing their team. From the little I saw of the second half, turnovers were a big part of the problem too. It seemed for a while that BYU forgot what color jerseys they were wearing, because they kept throwing the ball got he other team. Turnovers happen while on offense, which is why defense only can't be blamed.

Yep. BYU had one brief stretch in which it was outscored 7-0 by Ole Miss as a result of three straight turnovers. Defense played a very small role in that run. It's no different than football where turnovers in bad spots on the field can result in a boatload of points, but also situations in which you're compromising your defense so badly, nothing can save it.

The primary objective on defense is to get your opponents to work hard for shots and to miss more than they make. BYU did enough of that to win the game. Notice, I'm not saying they were on par with Jordan's Bulls when they got Ole Miss to shoot 30 percent in the first half. Their defense was probably not as good in the first half as the numbers suggest, but it wasn't as bad in the second half as many are saying. The collective vision of college basketball fans has been dumbed down by seeing games end 38-36 (Sun Belt final) and 45-41 (MWC final) that when they see a game like last night's, they conclude that no to little defense was being played.

[NorthwestUteFan]

It was a joke.

Also, LMU rebounded like crazy. Hank Gathers scored like crazy (and said that anybody could score like that if it was their only focus), but he was really proud of his rebounding prowess. He had 29 rebounds in one of the games just before he died, and had >20 rebounds in at least 5 games in his career. He had nearly 11 rebounds, 2 assists, and 1 block per game to go along with his 29 point average.

Granted, most of this was against WCC teams and teams like U.S. International, so...

The second half of the game last night proved that playing out of control Ward Ball-style won't work against an athletic team that can also run.

[SoCalPat]

It was a joke.

Also, LMU rebounded like crazy. Hank Gathers scored like crazy (and said that anybody could score like that if it was their only focus), but he was really proud of his rebounding prowess. He had 29 rebounds in one of the games just before he died, and had >20 rebounds in at least 5 games in his career. He had nearly 11 rebounds, 2 assists, and 1 block per game to go along with his 29 point average.

Granted, most of this was against WCC teams and teams like U.S. International, so...

Don't worry, I got the joke. My response was more to the board at large.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Don't worry, I got the joke. My response was more to the board at large.

I know you would. I was tweaking LA more than anything else.

[Diehard Ute]

The box score tells a tale.

BYU averaged almost 8 steals a game this year. They got 0 in this game.

They were only 3 turnovers above their season average (although that doesn't account for the circumstances around the turnover)

Rebounding obviously was their biggest issue on the night. Ole Miss had 44 missed field goals and got 16 offensive boards.

[LA Ute]

I know you would. I was tweaking LA more than anything else.

Fortunately for you I am not a vengeful person. So when I do exact my revenge, it will be very sportsmanlike and not unbearably painful for you.

Fact is, I did not see the BYU-Ole Miss game, only the last 5:00 or so (after I heard Ole MIss was making a game of it), and yes, I did assume that BYU's defense was poor -- a season-long problem and always a hallmerk of Dave Rose teams -- and was the cause of the 62-point second half for its opponents. Sounds like it was more complicated than that. So I am not in any position to argue much. I still think that in order to be considered playing defense, the team on defense needs to box out the offensive team, and in the 5:00 I watched the Cougs were not doing much of that.

[Senioritis]

Fortunately for you I am not a vengeful person. So when I do exact my revenge, it will be very sportsmanlike and not unbearably painful for you.

Fact is, I did not see the BYU-Ole Miss game, only the last 5:00 or so (after I heard Ole MIss was making a game of it), and yes, I did assume that BYU's defense was poor -- a season-long problem and always a hallmerk of Dave Rose teams -- and was the cause of the 62-point second half for its opponents. Sounds like it was more complicated than that. So I am not in any position to argue much. I still think that in order to be considered playing defense, the team on defense needs to box out the offensive team, and in the 5:00 I watched the Cougs were not doing much of that.

I watched the whole second half. Their defense was atrocious, to put it mildly. You don't give up 50 points in 14 minutes without other factors, but their defense was totally sucky in every respect. Couldn't guard the perimeter, couldn't guard the post, couldn't create turnovers, couldn't stay in front of anybody.

[SoCalPat]

They're not a P5 team, so the playoff committee won't give us any credit for beating them. And it doesn't matter if the ACC or even the Pac 12 says they're a P5 team. Until the SEC says they are, then the playoff committee will continue to treat them as a G5 team.

Our P5 scheduling woes are now over. SEC to recognize games against all independents (Army, ND, BYU) as satisfying the P5 requirement for the league. With as many games BYU has against the Pac-12, I strongly suspect the Pac-12 will follow suit and grant BYU P5 honors for purposes of non-conference scheduling. With nine league games, it would allow the Pac-12 to remain a step ahead of the SEC in terms of SOS considerations by the CFP selection committee.

[Utah]

Our P5 scheduling woes are now over. SEC to recognize games against all independents (Army, ND, BYU) as satisfying the P5 requirement for the league. With as many games BYU has against the Pac-12, I strongly suspect the Pac-12 will follow suit and grant BYU P5 honors for purposes of non-conference scheduling. With nine league games, it would allow the Pac-12 to remain a step ahead of the SEC in terms of SOS considerations by the CFP selection committee.

So, basically the SEC is continuing to do what I've been saying Utah should do all along:

Schedule down.

Dumb up the OOC.

Schedule only home games OOC.

Guarantee 7 home games every year.

This isn't good news for BYU. All it means is more road games and one and done. It isn't good news for the rivalry, because if BYU will take more and more one and dones, why should Utah schedule a home and home, when we could get a 2 for 1 with a MWC team? Utah would be smart to take the 2 for 1.

[SoCalPat]

So, basically the SEC is continuing to do what I've been saying Utah should do all along:

Schedule down.

Dumb up the OOC.

Schedule only home games OOC.

Guarantee 7 home games every year.

This isn't good news for BYU. All it means is more road games and one and done. It isn't good news for the rivalry, because if BYU will take more and more one and dones, why should Utah schedule a home and home, when we could get a 2 for 1 with a MWC team? Utah would be smart to take the 2 for 1.

I could care less if this is good news for BYU. It's fabulous news for Utah, provided the Pac-12 falls in line and recognizes BYU as P5, which to me is a no-brainer at this point. We can schedule like Florida, never leave the state in the non-con and get 7 home games annually. We will likely still have to play the occasional game against BYU in November, but that's trivial.

Why would we take a 2-for-1 with a G5 at the expense of playing BYU? Hell, we can't even get NIU and SJSU to agree to 2-for-1s. Stop wasting everyone's time by suggesting we should pursue this route.

[concerned]

So, basically the SEC is continuing to do what I've been saying Utah should do all along:

Schedule down.

Dumb up the OOC.

Schedule only home games OOC.

Guarantee 7 home games every year.

This isn't good news for BYU. All it means is more road games and one and done. It isn't good news for the rivalry, because if BYU will take more and more one and dones, why should Utah schedule a home and home, when we could get a 2 for 1 with a MWC team? Utah would be smart to take the 2 for 1.

They just got an H-H with Mississippi State.

[sancho]

It's fabulous news for Utah

You and I have different definitions of fabulous. This may affect Utah in a very small way once every decade.

[concerned]

You and I have different definitions of fabulous. This may affect Utah in a very small way once every decade.

Here is why it is fabulous: BYU is going to be able to get quality games elsewhere (mostly on the road) so there will be less pressure on us to scheudle them. We can each go our own way.

[LA Ute]

Here is why it is fabulous: BYU is going to be able to get quality games elsewhere (mostly on the road) so there will be less pressure on us to scheudle them. We can each go our own way.

Right. And the obnoxious portion of their fan base will be able to boast endlessly that they don't need Utah because they have a better schedule without us. Equilibrium in the rivalry will be restored, at no cost to us other than occasionally being dimly aware of the nonsense emanating from that crowd.

[SoCalPat]

You and I have different definitions of fabulous. This may affect Utah in a very small way once every decade.

Not if you believe we can continue our recent dominance over BYU. 3-0 non-con should be the rule, 2-1 should be the exception. And we should have 7 home games in most seasons as a result.

Yes, as far as the national title picture is concerned, fabulous won't enter the equation much. But as far as being bowl eligible is concerned, it's a big help. Our typical non-con should feature BYU, FCS and MWC. We're set there through 2017. Whack NIU for 2018-19, get BYU on for 2019 and we're done with scheduling for several years.

[SoCalPat]

Here is why it is fabulous: BYU is going to be able to get quality games elsewhere (mostly on the road) so there will be less pressure on us to scheudle them. We can each go our own way.

BYU is not scheduling every Pac-12 team only to turn its back on the one Pac-12 team in the state. The Zoobs in the fanbase dream of that but their numbers are greatly overstated -- kinda like the fans on our side who believe we should never play them again. Our difficulty is scheduling quality non-conference teams is very obvious, and no one is expecting a name P5 school to walk through that door once Michigan is done.

[sancho]

and no one is expecting a name P5 school to walk through that door once Michigan is done.

Maybe that's reality, but it doesn't feel fabulous. The Michigan thing has been cool, and it would be really fun to have some variety in P5 opponents.

I know the in state rival thing makes scheduling easy for UGa and Florida, but it also makes things relatively boring. And they are at least playing in state P5 rivals. What we have is an average of CU/CSU and UGa/GT.

[utefan]

Our P5 scheduling woes are now over. SEC to recognize games against all independents (Army, ND, BYU) as satisfying the P5 requirement for the league. With as many games BYU has against the Pac-12, I strongly suspect the Pac-12 will follow suit and grant BYU P5 honors for purposes of non-conference scheduling. With nine league games, it would allow the Pac-12 to remain a step ahead of the SEC in terms of SOS considerations by the CFP selection committee.
Even if the SEC counts BYU as a P5 team for their scheduling, the playoff committee is not going to do that anytime soon.

BYU plays 4 or 5 P5 teams per year. The Pac 12 plays 9 conference games, plus whatever P5 teams get scheduled out of conference, plus a conference championship game.

The SEC is basically saying they want to play an easier schedule. They only play 8 conference games, and if they count BYU as a P5 then some SEC teams will probably never play more than those 8 games against P5 teams.

The Big 12 plays 9 conference games, but no championship game.

BYU's schedule is not even close to being on par with even the weakest P5 schedules. And I'm sure if BYU was undefeated and Alabama won the SEC with 1 loss, you'd hear the SEC talk about how they're not a real P5 team with a real P5 schedule.

Utah's schedule is on par or better than any SEC or Big 12 team. We don't need to worry about matching their schedule because ours is already tougher.

There is literally no reason to play BYU other than emotion or nostalgia. We'd be much better off scheduling Houston/Central Florida/Arkansas State/Memphis or some other G5 team in a hot recruiting area.

[UtahsMrSports]

I dont know if anyone saw this, but I thought it was pretty funny. My apologies if what this hombre is actually saying is inappropriate; I haven't a clue (if anyone can translate it, id be curious to know)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn1IWESXpsw

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Oh man. This video. https://t.co/chheqLxaRV

[SoCalPat]

Oh man. This video. https://t.co/chheqLxaRV

I'd demand Kyle's resignation if ever had the bad sense to bust moves like that in public.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Two days. Two gems. Now we know the real reason BYU doesn't condone tattoos. They just make poor choices. #thelongsnapper

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/03/c6f3b4c7ac884396697b24a45af673f3.jpg

[utefan]

Two days. Two gems. Now we know the real reason BYU doesn't condone tattoos. They just make poor choices. #thelongsnapper

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/03/c6f3b4c7ac884396697b24a45af673f3.jpg
Bwahahahahaha!

That is hilarious!

[jrj84105]

1438
I'm not sure if that's a mole or an extra nipple, but he should get it checked out.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

1438
I'm not sure if that's a mole or an extra nipple, but he should get it checked out.

RIP Mr. Kruger.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/04/ff9fbd4a1bcc0809def0cf461f9d88f7.jpg

[LA Ute]

Mountain West should go after BYU with conference title game rules changing (http://www.mwcconnection.com/2015/4/7/8365925/byu-conference-expansion-big-12-mountain-west)
He's probably right. Maybe they never should have left. With BYU and Boise State the MWC could be first among the non-P5 conferences.

[Mormon Red Death]

Mountain West should go after BYU with conference title game rules changing (http://www.mwcconnection.com/2015/4/7/8365925/byu-conference-expansion-big-12-mountain-west)


He's probably right. Maybe they never should have left. With BYU and Boise State the MWC could be first among the non-P5 conferences.

Seeings how the big 12 isn't happening why not think of an out of box deal with the ACC?

The ACC is going to go to 3 Divisions
Atlantic
Clemson
FSU
Ga Tech
Louisville
Wake

Coastal
Duke
UNC
NC State
Virginia
Va Tech

Conference
BC
Miami
Pitt
Syracuse
ND

ND is currently contracted to play 5 games every year with the ACC. What if BYU played their other 4 conference games?
Byu could get home games in November and possible bowl slot or champ game if say they were undefeated. Maybe even some home and home basketball games.
ACC gets 4 more conference games to even out their schedule and 2 of them they have the sole media rights.
ND gets to move around the Conference and doesn't have to just play everyone in their division.

just a thought.

[LA Ute]

Seeings how the big 12 isn't happening why not think of an out of box deal with the ACC?

The ACC is going to go to 3 Divisions
Atlantic
Clemson
FSU
Ga Tech
Louisville
Wake

Coastal
Duke
UNC
NC State
Virginia
Va Tech

Conference
BC
Miami
Pitt
Syracuse
ND

ND is currently contracted to play 5 games every year with the ACC. What if BYU played their other 4 conference games?
Byu could get home games in November and possible bowl slot or champ game if say they were undefeated. Maybe even some home and home basketball games.
ACC gets 4 more conference games to even out their schedule and 2 of them they have the sole media rights.
ND gets to move around the Conference and doesn't have to just play everyone in their division.

just a thought.

Very interesting. Why don't you propose this on CougarStadium? Those guys will make it happen. ;)

[jrj84105]

Two days. Two gems. Now we know the real reason BYU doesn't condone tattoos. They just make poor choices. #thelongsnapper

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/03/c6f3b4c7ac884396697b24a45af673f3.jpg

Is this tattoo also leaking that BYU has adopted skin-tight acid washed jean shorts as an alternate jersey element?

[U-Ute]

Its nice to see that this lady (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/08/elderly-woman-ruins-19th-century-fresco-in-restoration-attempt/) still has a career.

1440

[jrj84105]

1441

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

1441

:applause:

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

A fine testimonial.


Respect an emotion we all want and need and all think our team deserves. 2 2 1 2
I love BYU because of its heart and beliefs not because she wins ball games, but because she teaches their players its more important to be good men and good women then to win a ball game. Yes I love it when BYU wins and I feel proud when they do especially when the experts disrespectfully say there is "noway" we can win. But when the lights are out and the clock says zero I much rather have my foes respect earned by hustle, great play and character then win a trophy or award that will only collect dust and is soon forgotten. There is a lot of winning and losing in sports and in life and I am glad that she teaches that you must learn from both. Yes we are often criticized because we do not play on Sunday, or our players are too old, or rules and scholastic standards are to high, or......or.... wouldn't you much rather have it that way and earn another s respect over time using patience, a respectful "congratulation, and a sincere handshake at games end then a bitter I was "Robbed" even if you were? Our history shows we have been kicked around all over this country before we found a home yet we always seemed to pick ourselves up again and again and will continue to do so. Yes our enemy's list is long and getting longer but even they begrudgingly must respect us because we believe and usually do what we say. Sports is a game of fun and entertainment it is and should never be the "end all" or life or death but it will teach us respect of others and teach how to earn others respect if you will let it.

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=14006878

This guy's problem should be that they aren't doing either well.

[U-Ute]

A fine testimonial.

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=14006878

This guy's problem should be that they aren't doing either well.

As PK is fond of saying: losers find perspective.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Caption this photo:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/03/75efd08b47b36ff57a91580e11b38a99.jpg

[hostile]

Caption this photo:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/03/75efd08b47b36ff57a91580e11b38a99.jpg

YO!!!

[FountainOfUte]

Even Duck fans can respect a good Yale education.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Caption this photo:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/03/75efd08b47b36ff57a91580e11b38a99.jpg
I figured that I better start cheering for a team that can actually beat Utah

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

It's the swoosh that stands for Oregon, right?

[wally]

Caption this photo:

Who is that dude?

[chrisrenrut]

Who is that dude?

Best guess at his name- Taysom Mariotta

[Jarid in Cedar]

Best guess at his name- Taysom Mariotta
That is probably what he will name his first born son.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

😢

http://youtu.be/ex1p_Rqs_JQ

[Sullyute]



http://youtu.be/ex1p_Rqs_JQ

Man greg wrubel's voice is like fingernails on a chalk board to me.

[sancho]



http://youtu.be/ex1p_Rqs_JQ

Why did you post that? I thought it was going to be some kind of joke until I realized that it isn't. Didn't we have a no Taysom highlights rule?

[LA Ute]

Man greg wrubel's voice is like fingernails on a chalk board to me.

"After suffering a season-ending leg injury last season, Taysom Hill returns to BYU Football for his senior season and a final shot at the Heisman trophy."

A final shot? Has he had a shot before?

[U-Ute]

"After suffering a season-ending leg injury last season, Taysom Hill returns to BYU Football for his senior season and a final shot at the Heisman trophy."

A final shot? Has he had a shot before?

Sure. I have a shot at winning the Boston Marathon too.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Sure. I have a shot at winning the Boston Marathon too.

Put it to some music and let's start the campaign!

[sancho]

Sure. I have a shot at winning the Boston Marathon too.

I wouldn't say this year is my final shot at a Nobel, but I am running out of time.